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Author Topic: meaningless freezingseason/melting season chatter.  (Read 25469 times)

pearscot

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Re: meaningless freezingseason/melting season chatter.
« Reply #250 on: July 11, 2019, 07:08:55 PM »
This is it!!! I spy with my little eye TWO (2) actual humans!!! This marks my second sighting.

I can't tell with the resolution, but they could be two baby Sasquatches, however please correct me if I'm wrong.

pls!

b_lumenkraft

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Re: meaningless freezingseason/melting season chatter.
« Reply #251 on: July 11, 2019, 07:36:57 PM »
The right one is the dude from your previous post i think.

https://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php/topic,2274.msg211978.html#msg211978

The left one looks like they are using a shovel on the road.

pearscot

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Re: meaningless freezingseason/melting season chatter.
« Reply #252 on: July 11, 2019, 08:01:00 PM »
The right one is the dude from your previous post i think.

https://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php/topic,2274.msg211978.html#msg211978

The left one looks like they are using a shovel on the road.

hmm, you are probably right about that. Now the question is - just what are they doing with that shovel??
pls!

b_lumenkraft

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Re: meaningless freezingseason/melting season chatter.
« Reply #253 on: July 11, 2019, 08:09:58 PM »
There must be a treasure trove.  :o ;D ;D

pearscot

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Re: meaningless freezingseason/melting season chatter.
« Reply #254 on: July 11, 2019, 08:27:24 PM »
There must be a treasure trove.  :o ;D ;D

YUS!!!  ;)

They have found the long lost treasure of Barrow - some say that there's even some rum hidden in there too  8)
pls!

HapHazard

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Re: meaningless freezingseason/melting season chatter.
« Reply #255 on: July 11, 2019, 09:06:03 PM »
The left one is on a bike.

Trying to get away from the other one, which is obviously a Samsquanch.

b_lumenkraft

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Re: meaningless freezingseason/melting season chatter.
« Reply #256 on: July 11, 2019, 09:08:41 PM »
The left one is on a bike.

The left one is on an invisible bike.

FIFY ;)

pearscot

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Re: meaningless freezingseason/melting season chatter.
« Reply #257 on: July 11, 2019, 09:22:14 PM »
The left one is on a bike.

Trying to get away from the other one, which is obviously a Samsquanch.

LOLOL I totally got that Trailer Park Boys reference before I clicked on that.

Damn I miss that show, it was great!

"there's a squatch in these woods..."
pls!

binntho

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Re: meaningless freezingseason/melting season chatter.
« Reply #258 on: July 16, 2019, 09:12:39 AM »
Quote
No there are no glaciers there calving. But icebergs from northern Greenland could be transported around the Arctic, at least in the old days when the ice was constantly moving in a great counter-clockwise circle.
This discussion is OT here. But in brief:
The currents around Greenland flow south in the Nares and in the Fram, so no Greenland icebergs can make it into the Arctic Ocean proper. What you could be referring to may be the Ward Hunt ice shelf and its remnants that broke off large icebergs from the north of Ellesmere Island in the early 2000s. But I am certain there are no icebergs in the ESS this season, so this should be discussed elsewhere.

Well this is probably a good place.

I'm well aware of the flow of currents, and that most of the icebergs originating in Greenland will head south. But perhaps not all, and perhaps not always. There are gletcher tongues along the northern coast that presumably calve every now and then, and the vagaries of sea ice movements in years past could presumably snatch those icebergs when the emerge, and carry them along into the Arctic Ocean proper rather than sending them out the Fram or Nares exits.

Having said that, I suspect that the scratch marks observed on the sea floor on the Siberian Shelf and in the Barents are from the last glacial period, and not the Holocene.

Reading descriptions of the ice front some 200 years ago, one could imagine that the compressed/compacted multiyear ice could reach quite a long way down, and that grounding of MYI on the Siberan Shelf would be a common occurrence.

oren

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Re: meaningless freezingseason/melting season chatter.
« Reply #259 on: July 16, 2019, 09:23:08 AM »
Good points.
BTW I think sea ice can be compressed to stand sideways, and thus it can be snagged in shoals deeper than its thickness.
I also remember A-Team's description and animations of Hannah Shoal in the Chukchi, which is shallow enough for the sea ice to snag upon every season.

johnm33

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Re: meaningless freezingseason/melting season chatter.
« Reply #260 on: July 16, 2019, 11:17:44 AM »
Whether it's detailed enough [?] but this gives depth/height select arctic-second option for basemap https://maps.ngdc.noaa.gov/viewers/bathymetry/ best to wait til it's fully loaded -help appears bottom left- before selecting options.

binntho

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Re: meaningless freezingseason/melting season chatter.
« Reply #261 on: July 16, 2019, 12:59:41 PM »
Not wanting to clutter the real threads where the actual discussions are taking place, I decided to post this old-man's rant here:

Terrific, Comradez!! As for myself, a complete non-scientist who LOVES this stuff and Neven's forum, this is what I'd like to see more of: Videos with narration showing me exactly what I want to see and learn. Keep it up...perhaps edited down a bit more
 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)

Not wanting to damp the videomaking enthusiasm, but I for one am utterly unable to watch educational videos on the Internet. Perhaps it's a form of autistically induced ADHD (not that I've ever been diagnosed), but if it isn't written down then it doesn't work for me.

Of course, videos have their own strengths, but for me the drawbacks, such as lack of subtitles (for those who have hearing problems) and the exclusively linear structure plus the difficulty of referring to specific parts, plus my inability to stay focused for more than a couple of minutes when other people are talking, make them pretty useless to me.

But please do not stop making them for my sake! Just don't fall into the trap I've seen too often, where videos overtake the well written text because the author feels they are easier to make, and mistakenly assumes that his "customer base" is just as richly served with videos.

oren

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Re: meaningless freezingseason/melting season chatter.
« Reply #262 on: July 16, 2019, 01:27:51 PM »
Not wanting to damp the videomaking enthusiasm, but I for one am utterly unable to watch educational videos on the Internet. Perhaps it's a form of autistically induced ADHD (not that I've ever been diagnosed), but if it isn't written down then it doesn't work for me.
I have the exact same issue, and the same self-diagnosis...

HapHazard

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Re: meaningless freezingseason/melting season chatter.
« Reply #263 on: July 16, 2019, 07:12:39 PM »

Not wanting to damp the videomaking enthusiasm, but I for one am utterly unable to watch educational videos on the Internet.

Same here. I can't stand such videos. I find them too slow, drives me insane. Also boring. Plus I "digest" while reading much better.

Stephan

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Re: meaningless freezingseason/melting season chatter.
« Reply #264 on: July 16, 2019, 07:58:45 PM »
The opposite for me. I can't read longer texts without (automatically) getting too fast down to the next line, the next paragraph, the next chapter, and by this way probably missing the most imortant words and the essence of the text.
With - well made - videos this is not the case and I listen very carefully. If the text is narrated well and the pictures / the film is presenting the same content than the text it is fine with me.
(I once saw a video about PIG/PIIS with high and steep mountain glaciers which are not present at that place, which annoyed me)

Freegrass

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Re: meaningless freezingseason/melting season chatter.
« Reply #265 on: July 16, 2019, 08:20:26 PM »
Whether it's detailed enough [?] but this gives depth/height select arctic-second option for basemap https://maps.ngdc.noaa.gov/viewers/bathymetry/ best to wait til it's fully loaded -help appears bottom left- before selecting options.
Thanks for the replies everyone! I think I've figured it out now by doing something I should probably have done before I asked my question; I went through the years on Worldview, looking at that piece of ice, and the only conclusion I can make now is that it must be ice that's attached to an sub-surface outcrop on the ocean floor. So no iceberg...

The good thing about doing research is that you end up finding interesting things that you weren't actually looking for, like that image of scars on the ocean floor, and this project, that is mapping the entire ocean floor by 2030.

Seabed 2030 is a collaborative project between the Nippon Foundation and GEBCO. It aims to bring together all available bathymetric data to produce the definitive map of the world ocean floor by 2030 and make it available to all. It builds on more than 100 years of GEBCO's history in global seafloor mapping.

https://seabed2030.gebco.net/

Human Habitat Index

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There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance. That principle is contempt prior to investigation. - Herbert Spencer

Coffee Drinker

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Re: meaningless freezingseason/melting season chatter.
« Reply #267 on: July 17, 2019, 12:00:50 PM »
I can't believe there is still ice in the Hudson Bay. How is that even possible?

Temperatures around the bay are pretty much summer like (Churchill 28C today) and the sun is burning down on the ice. Its identical latitude as the Baltic Sea which would never ever have ice in mid July, no matter how cold the winter was.

oren

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Re: meaningless freezingseason/melting season chatter.
« Reply #268 on: July 17, 2019, 12:41:06 PM »
Continental Canada is much colder than the same latitudes in Europe. Hudson is currently at <10% of its winter ice cover. This should clear out by early August, though it's been known to last even until late August in the Foxe Basin sub-region.

gerontocrat

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Re: meaningless freezingseason/melting season chatter.
« Reply #269 on: July 17, 2019, 12:50:08 PM »
I can't believe there is still ice in the Hudson Bay. How is that even possible?

Temperatures around the bay are pretty much summer like (Churchill 28C today) and the sun is burning down on the ice. Its identical latitude as the Baltic Sea which would never ever have ice in mid July, no matter how cold the winter was.
Location, location, location.
Hudson Bay is in the north and to the east of centre of a big continent.
It gets horribly cold in winter. That part of the world is not called "the Barrens" for nothing.
Summer is horribly short, winter is horribly long.

Ice freezes to an average depth of about 1.6 metres in winter and is late to start melting.

Hudson Bay is one of the seas (there is more than one) that seem to have ignored AGW.

This year it has melted out very close to the 2010's average, a week or more earlier than last year.

In contrast, the Baltic is at the western edge of the European continent, and its climate is semi-maritime, Atlantic westerlies.
"Para a Causa do Povo a Luta Continua!"
"And that's all I'm going to say about that". Forrest Gump
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Freegrass

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Re: meaningless freezingseason/melting season chatter.
« Reply #270 on: July 17, 2019, 01:13:31 PM »
Continental Canada is much colder than the same latitudes in Europe.
So true! We've got the Gulfstream to thank for that. Just imagine what would happen to Europe if the gulfstream collapses. It would actually get colder here as the planet heats up. I live in Belgium, and for the second year in a row it's bone dry here. It's hardly raining, and our groundwater levels aren't replenished enough in winter either, so we're really feeling the consequences of climate change now. We're heading into our second heatwave this week...  :o

One good thing though, we've now got some of the best wine in the world as well, just like we have the best beer in the world. So we don't worry too much about climate change. We just get drunk as much as possible...  ;) ;D ::)

binntho

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Re: meaningless freezingseason/melting season chatter.
« Reply #271 on: July 17, 2019, 01:23:55 PM »
One good thing though, we've now got some of the best wine in the world as well, just like we have the best beer in the world.
And the worst beer as well ... i've never tasted anything as disgusting as the white monastery beer I was once duped into tasting in Brussels. I was told it had been brewed in large open vats, and the white mold that collected on top was regularly mixed in and this was what made it taste so "special".

Having said that, I once tasted some horrible beer + colored fitzy dring in East Berlin back in the old days. But no I think the Belgian one was worse.

So we don't worry too much about climate change. We just get drunk as much as possible...  ;) ;D ::)
Works for me too!

Freegrass

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Re: meaningless freezingseason/melting season chatter.
« Reply #272 on: July 17, 2019, 03:09:54 PM »
Oh yeah, we've got some disgusting tasting beers as well. Do you remember the name of the beer? We've got around 1700 kinds of beer in Belgium, on a population of 11 million... It's like cheese, some cheeses are also simply disgusting. I spend more than 6 years in SE-Asia, and I tasted some nasty food there as well... But I guess the one thing you can never have a discussion about, is taste... What's disgusting for one person, is heaven for another... Ever tried Balut, or century egg? Now that's disgusting...

I was just about to write a post on the other thread. Is there such a thing as a Tripole? It looks like it's gonna be a horrible week for the ice...

oren

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Re: meaningless freezingseason/melting season chatter.
« Reply #273 on: July 17, 2019, 08:27:38 PM »
......the CAB stays a constant from January - June each year, then somewhere around July 10th give or take a week a steady decrease from that 4.2-4.4 value occurs every year. The depth of that decrease varies significantly but the duration is identical, and the refreeze begins also within quite a limited calendar period until it again rises into the 4.2-4.4 range.

The 5 day average NSIDC average that Gerontocrat reports here every day peaked at 3.2M km2 in March.

Any # of 4.2 - 4.4M km2 is coming from a different area measure. The complexity of an internet discussion involving multiple measures of the same 2D attribute (area) from a single agency (NSIDC) makes productive exchange unlikely. It becomes
too confusing.
NSIDC's CAB size is ~3.2M km2. There is no double measure from a single agency.
In addition to this definition, there used to be a web site called Cryosphere Today (CT for short) that had regional area data and/or charts, in which the CAB was defined as ~4.4M km2. That website is no longer active. However, a certain user called Wipneus, you may have heard of him, has decided to recreate the CT Area data by analysing and number crunching the raw data coming from NSIDC. The same Wipneus has done the same with the raw data coming from JAXA and from UH Hamburg, and on his website the ArctischePinguin he publishes this data daily, using the same regional demarcations of CT.
Wipneus also made some tweaks and improvements to the algorithm of deciding how much area there is, resulting in his Home Brew AMSR2 data thread. I recommend to read its beginning posts, they could teach you a lot.

All this happened before my time here. How do I know this then? Because I have been an avid reader of the forum for the past 5 years.

Having come to some realizations about the regional data, I once (or thrice) posted a suggestion to split the CAB to several sectors (Pacific-facing, Siberian-facing, Atlantic-facing) each having a distinct melting season behavior, and a much smaller CAB. No one took up on my suggestion. I could do the calculations myself, but it's too difficult for me, so I just shut up.
If you want to advance the cause of science - don't complain, be a doer: petition the NSIDC for a new demarcation of the regions. Will they listen? Dunno. Haven't tried.
Alternatively, do what Wipneus did, and number-crunch a new regional demarcation. Can you? Dunno.
Alternatively, use the data you are given, and don't complain, especially not on the leading threads. Just my take on it.

oren

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Re: meaningless freezingseason/melting season chatter.
« Reply #274 on: July 17, 2019, 09:28:37 PM »
Here's a link to the "Home Brew" thread, which you can peruse and see what some "random user" can achieve.
https://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php/topic,382.msg7522.html#msg7522

BTW, that topic was read 1.35M times...