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Author Topic: Freeform season chatter and light commentary  (Read 119504 times)

Freegrass

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Re: Freeform season chatter and light commentary
« Reply #600 on: July 20, 2020, 01:46:18 PM »
I'd been keeping an eye on that little crescent for some days . Since I spotted it it has lost a little weight and donned a sombrero . An act of attempted concealment by the aliens ?  b.c.
It looks like the aliens heard me last night and packed their bags upon their discovery. The crescent is falling apart...

Currents was a good explanation for this weird event, but that must have been a very strong and persistent current. So I'm not a 100% convinced yet that this is the entire explanation. Is there any other explanation possible beside currents and aliens?

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blumenkraft

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Re: Freeform season chatter and light commentary
« Reply #601 on: July 20, 2020, 01:48:08 PM »
aliens heard me last night

See, i told you to keep quiet, didn't i?? ;)  ;D
“I’m an introvert. I’m just different that’s all. I’m so sorry. I don’t have a gun. I don’t do that stuff... All I was trying to do was to become better. I’ll do it... You all are phenomenal. You are beautiful. And I love you. Try to forgive me. I’m sorry.”

Elijah McClain

Freegrass

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Re: Freeform season chatter and light commentary
« Reply #602 on: July 20, 2020, 02:08:21 PM »
aliens heard me last night

See, i told you to keep quiet, didn't i?? ;) ;D
I didn't say a word... How am I supposed to know they can read?  :-\
If every 8 year old in the world is taught meditation, we will eliminate violence from the world within one generation.

blumenkraft

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Re: Freeform season chatter and light commentary
« Reply #603 on: July 20, 2020, 02:15:54 PM »
They could have saved humanity and planet earth.  :'(

They started their engines now. In four days they are gone for good.
“I’m an introvert. I’m just different that’s all. I’m so sorry. I don’t have a gun. I don’t do that stuff... All I was trying to do was to become better. I’ll do it... You all are phenomenal. You are beautiful. And I love you. Try to forgive me. I’m sorry.”

Elijah McClain

Freegrass

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Re: Freeform season chatter and light commentary
« Reply #604 on: July 20, 2020, 02:32:04 PM »
Thanks for that animation Blum. That really convinced me that it's fast ice on shoals, and not currents. Maybe a big piece of ice got stuck in between the shoals, making them more visible?


Maybe we could name these shoals the New Siberian Islands Barrier Reef?
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Freegrass

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Re: Freeform season chatter and light commentary
« Reply #605 on: July 20, 2020, 03:01:31 PM »
Something seems to be holding back the ice in the ESS close to the New Siberian Islands, [...] *snip*

Perhaps uniquorn's thread has an answer - he has found a bunch of these there.

https://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php/topic,2890.0.html
Can you post that animation on Uniquorn's thread Blum?
If every 8 year old in the world is taught meditation, we will eliminate violence from the world within one generation.

blumenkraft

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Re: Freeform season chatter and light commentary
« Reply #606 on: July 20, 2020, 03:16:20 PM »
Done! :)

And i learned something new. If you link a GIF with the IMG tag that is already hosted on the forum server, it would autoplay, no matter the canvas size.
“I’m an introvert. I’m just different that’s all. I’m so sorry. I don’t have a gun. I don’t do that stuff... All I was trying to do was to become better. I’ll do it... You all are phenomenal. You are beautiful. And I love you. Try to forgive me. I’m sorry.”

Elijah McClain

jens

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Re: Freeform season chatter and light commentary
« Reply #607 on: July 20, 2020, 03:54:19 PM »
In the melting season thread there is discussion about lack of aerosols causing "extraordinary melting season". Well, I'm not in position to tell, how much this has directly impacted 2020. I guess it has played some role. However, anyone expecting a 'recovery' would be in for a harsh awakening. "Lack of aerosols" is going to be the story for the entire 2020's, and all the 2020's melting seasons are going to be "extraordinary" - well, by the standards of 2010's of course, and earlier. That's what climate collapse is all about - it creates also the economic collapse. No-one can keep living in a bubble.

ajouis

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Re: Freeform season chatter and light commentary
« Reply #608 on: July 20, 2020, 04:05:11 PM »
Jens, much of the production has restarted, so it probably will not be so bad, but we will have problems of deconcentration of aerosol from where it used to be https://academic.oup.com/nsr/article/4/6/810/4191281
After a thousand steps on the ice, it cracked.
The Man looked down at the infinite blue of the sea.
On the horizon, standing still, the polar bear had just scented his next meal.

 Less than 3000 cubic kilometers this Piomas minimum.

Freegrass

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Re: Freeform season chatter and light commentary
« Reply #609 on: July 20, 2020, 04:10:34 PM »
In the melting season thread there is discussion about lack of aerosols causing "extraordinary melting season". Well, I'm not in position to tell, how much this has directly impacted 2020. I guess it has played some role. However, anyone expecting a 'recovery' would be in for a harsh awakening. "Lack of aerosols" is going to be the story for the entire 2020's, and all the 2020's melting seasons are going to be "extraordinary" - well, by the standards of 2010's of course, and earlier. That's what climate collapse is all about - it creates also the economic collapse. No-one can keep living in a bubble.
There is a connection between air pollution and the 1980's famine in Ethiopia. I always thought the drought was caused by a reduction of air pollution in Europe due to acid rain, but after a quick Google search just now it seems that I have been wrong about that for the last 30 years. Although there is a connection with air pollution. I'm sure more knowledgeable people than me know more about this.

https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn2393-african-droughts-triggered-by-western-pollution/

Quote
Emissions spewed out by power stations and factories in North America and Europe may have sparked the severe droughts that have afflicted the Sahel region of Africa. The droughts have been among the worst the world has ever seen, and led to the infamous famines that crippled countries such as Ethiopia in the 1980s.

The cause appears to be the clouds of sulphur belched out alongside the soot, organic carbon, ammonium and nitrate produced when fossil fuels are burnt, according to researchers in Australia and Canada. As these compounds move through the atmosphere, they create aerosols that affect cloud formation, altering the temperature of the Earth’s surface and leading to dramatic shifts in regional weather patterns.
If every 8 year old in the world is taught meditation, we will eliminate violence from the world within one generation.

jens

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Re: Freeform season chatter and light commentary
« Reply #610 on: July 20, 2020, 04:21:41 PM »
By the way, one more quick comment. For example no-one says that 1980 melting season was affected by "lack of aerosols". Although by today's standards there were fewer people on the planet, less consumption, less pollution and fewer plane flights. "Less aerosols" has been the historic norm, when economic activity was smaller.

Hence I think soon the talk about aerosols will lose its meaning. We have entered a new era, and other factors take over in determining the outcome of melting seasons.

ajouis

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Re: Freeform season chatter and light commentary
« Reply #611 on: July 20, 2020, 05:01:57 PM »
Freegrass, aerosols inhibit normal rain, so that might have been why they caused the famine (they also increase stormy events)
After a thousand steps on the ice, it cracked.
The Man looked down at the infinite blue of the sea.
On the horizon, standing still, the polar bear had just scented his next meal.

 Less than 3000 cubic kilometers this Piomas minimum.

blumenkraft

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Re: Freeform season chatter and light commentary
« Reply #612 on: July 22, 2020, 05:35:46 PM »
Evidence of melting ribbons on the Laptev and Atlantic margins

Looking at Pagophilus's picture from the main thread, i had a thought about the whole compaction debate.

When ice foes melt, they disperse as their last act. How much of the ice pack is dispersing, melting ice floes that happen to fill the gaps between the thicker floes?

Maybe the ice is more dispersed than some people think, but it doesn't look like it?
“I’m an introvert. I’m just different that’s all. I’m so sorry. I don’t have a gun. I don’t do that stuff... All I was trying to do was to become better. I’ll do it... You all are phenomenal. You are beautiful. And I love you. Try to forgive me. I’m sorry.”

Elijah McClain

pearscot

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Re: Freeform season chatter and light commentary
« Reply #613 on: July 25, 2020, 12:07:51 AM »
I don't really know where to put this since it's a work in progress, but hopefully it's a helpful map with all useful links to learn about the Arctic. I should add, this is very much a beta version and will be improved and I think there's a lot more I can do with it

Ohh the things you do at work when bored...

pls!

be cause

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Re: Freeform season chatter and light commentary
« Reply #614 on: July 25, 2020, 12:18:06 AM »
Evidence of melting ribbons on the Laptev and Atlantic margins

Looking at Pagophilus's picture from the main thread, i had a thought about the whole compaction debate.

When ice foes melt, they disperse as their last act. How much of the ice pack is dispersing, melting ice floes that happen to fill the gaps between the thicker floes?

Maybe the ice is more dispersed than some people think, but it doesn't look like it?
it looks like it today @ the pole ..

 and enjoyed a look , Pearscot .. cheers .. b.c.
2007 + 5 = 2012 + 4 = 2016 + 3 = 2019 + 2 = 2021 
 (phew)

pearscot

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Re: Freeform season chatter and light commentary
« Reply #615 on: July 25, 2020, 12:26:20 AM »
Evidence of melting ribbons on the Laptev and Atlantic margins

Looking at Pagophilus's picture from the main thread, i had a thought about the whole compaction debate.

When ice foes melt, they disperse as their last act. How much of the ice pack is dispersing, melting ice floes that happen to fill the gaps between the thicker floes?

Maybe the ice is more dispersed than some people think, but it doesn't look like it?
it looks like it today @ the pole ..

 and enjoyed a look , Pearscot .. cheers .. b.c.

Awesome! Glad to hear! Did all of the links work? Please let me know if there are other sites you frequent which would be of use
pls!

bbr2315

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Re: Freeform season chatter and light commentary
« Reply #616 on: July 25, 2020, 12:33:32 AM »
By the way, one more quick comment. For example no-one says that 1980 melting season was affected by "lack of aerosols". Although by today's standards there were fewer people on the planet, less consumption, less pollution and fewer plane flights. "Less aerosols" has been the historic norm, when economic activity was smaller.

Hence I think soon the talk about aerosols will lose its meaning. We have entered a new era, and other factors take over in determining the outcome of melting seasons.
1980 may very well have had higher aerosols than today. USSR had no standards and heavy industry is now much cleaner.

The Roman Republic's industrial processes were something like 10X dirtier than those post-industrial revolution.

https://era.library.ualberta.ca/items/23b49247-3f16-48da-8fde-81938a6fd766/download/a67c4a96-688e-45eb-9a26-a15ea402282f

Interesting that the Younger Dryas resulted in a massive spike in Arsenic deposition....

morganism

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Re: Freeform season chatter and light commentary
« Reply #617 on: July 25, 2020, 03:08:10 AM »
Not exactly an aerosol study, but some folks did some studies with satts and ground truth evaporation pans when the air traffic stopped on 9/11.

they found some increases in evap because of clearer skies iirc.

There was also one study done on cloud cover over the ocean from sea shipping traffic "contrails". they showed that the lowering of shipping, caused lower cloud formation. This they attrib to the ships wakes pushing up bio particles from the kelp islands.

I think those kelp islands are all gone now, because of the increased frequency of the ships, and intl trade. Maybe interesting to see if the shipping in the Arctic creates "contrails" above the algal blooms...
(saw that one in a print copy of Science News)

glennbuck

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Re: Freeform season chatter and light commentary
« Reply #618 on: July 25, 2020, 03:14:07 AM »
For three days after September 11, the Federal Aviation Administration grounded commercial aircraft in the U.S., stranding travelers, hindering mail delivery and interrupting courier service, but for scientists at Penn State and the University of Wisconsin–Whitewater, the three-day shutdown provided a rare glimpse of the climate effects of jet contrails.

The change in the temperature difference was plus 1.1 degree Celsius, equal to plus 2 degrees Fahrenheit, above the 30-year long-term mean diurnal temperature range. The researchers compared the temperature ranges on these three days to those of the three days directly before Sept. 11 and the three days after Sept. 14, finding that the days before and after were similar, but that the three days in question differed by 1.8 degrees Celsius or 3.2 degrees Fahrenheit.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2002/08/020808075457.htm

dnem

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Re: Freeform season chatter and light commentary
« Reply #619 on: July 25, 2020, 11:47:46 PM »
I am literally waking up early and rushing downstairs to see the latest here. From time to time I quote A-Team who said a few years back that (paraphrasing) "a complete summer blow out could happen any year now." Is this the year?

Coffee Drinker

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Re: Freeform season chatter and light commentary
« Reply #620 on: July 26, 2020, 09:04:51 AM »
Summer heat in Svalbard.

Quote
A NEW RECORD HIGH – AND IT’S NOT OVER YET: Longyearbyen hits 21.7C Saturday evening, topping previous all-time temperature of 21.3C set in 1979; high of 22C forecast Monday

http://icepeople.net/2020/07/25/a-new-record-high-and-its-not-over-yet-longyearbyen-hits-21-7c-saturday-evening-topping-previous-all-time-temperature-of-21-3c-set-in-1979-high-of-22c-forecast-monday/

ajouis

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Re: Freeform season chatter and light commentary
« Reply #621 on: July 30, 2020, 06:10:27 PM »
https://www.weather-forecast.com/maps/Arctic
I don't know what model this forecast runs on but it is bad, don't use it
After a thousand steps on the ice, it cracked.
The Man looked down at the infinite blue of the sea.
On the horizon, standing still, the polar bear had just scented his next meal.

 Less than 3000 cubic kilometers this Piomas minimum.

gerontocrat

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Re: Freeform season chatter and light commentary
« Reply #622 on: July 30, 2020, 07:46:03 PM »
This may be a shaggy dog story.

I was washing he dishes and used too much liquid so at the end loads of bubbles in the sink.

I positioned the tap (faucet) so the water flowed from the edge of the sink across the base. Lo & behold - what happened.

A gyre formed in the sink and most of tbe bubbles formed a rotating circle while the rest formed a stationary ledge along one side of the sink. It was a picture of the Sea Ice in the main Arctic Basin. What amazed me was that it was stable, the soap bubbles refusing to dissipate down the plughole.

But when I changed the direction of the water flow from the tap to another edge of the basin, the bubble gyre collapsed as did the bubble ledge.

So there you are, Gerontocat's speculation that belongs to me of the future of the Ice in the Arctic Basin.

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Bugalugs

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Re: Freeform season chatter and light commentary
« Reply #623 on: August 01, 2020, 03:30:57 AM »
I disagree with the Swiss cheese comparison, it's more of a stilton.

Pagophilus

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Re: Freeform season chatter and light commentary
« Reply #624 on: August 01, 2020, 03:39:58 AM »
I disagree with the Swiss cheese comparison, it's more of a stilton.

You know, I think you may be right! 

But think of what this is going to do to the scientific terminology, though...  Stiltonification..?  Could seem a bit cheesy to some people.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2020, 04:48:27 AM by Pagophilus »
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Pmt111500

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Re: Freeform season chatter and light commentary
« Reply #625 on: August 01, 2020, 03:43:35 AM »
Swiss cheese is made with two strains of cheese bacteria so the parable is excellent, swiss cheese bacteria act as plumes of hotter water... --> tries to go on to parable other types of cheeses to other types of ice. White mould cheese with the crust - multiyear ice, blue cheese- leads and pressure ridges. Gorgonzola - stacking ice slabs, peppered cheese, soft cheese...

Thanks. :)

« Last Edit: August 01, 2020, 04:48:15 AM by Pmt111500 »
Cooling the outside by heat pump.

D-Penguin

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Re: Freeform season chatter and light commentary
« Reply #626 on: August 01, 2020, 05:58:31 AM »
Swiss cheese is made with two strains of cheese bacteria so the parable is excellent, swiss cheese bacteria act as plumes of hotter water... --> tries to go on to parable other types of cheeses to other types of ice. White mould cheese with the crust - multiyear ice, blue cheese- leads and pressure ridges. Gorgonzola - stacking ice slabs, peppered cheese, soft cheese...

Thanks. :)

 :) :) :) Great imagination.

It would be interesting if more postings showed this sort of creative thinking and applied it to 2020 and how it might be viewed retrospectively as a significant year for the future evolution of ASI.

+1 for imagination and creative thinking
Remember...it's all about the Jet Stream you dummy...just a personal reminder!

Telihod

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Re: Freeform season chatter and light commentary
« Reply #627 on: August 01, 2020, 09:40:51 AM »
It's funny how the cc deniers always come up with the one measure out of twenty that supports their argument that the ice isn't melting.
If there is a high pressure, then the ice isn't melting, it's compacting.
If there is a low pressure and the ice is spreading out: it's obvious that the ice isn't melting, because extent numbers aren't freefalling.
MFW reading their comments:

glennbuck

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Re: Freeform season chatter and light commentary
« Reply #628 on: August 01, 2020, 04:18:33 PM »
It's funny how the cc deniers always come up with the one measure out of twenty that supports their argument that the ice isn't melting.
If there is a high pressure, then the ice isn't melting, it's compacting.
If there is a low pressure and the ice is spreading out: it's obvious that the ice isn't melting, because extent numbers aren't freefalling.
MFW reading their comments:


I did not know we had cc deniers on ASIF looking at charts/graphs in front of there eyeballs all season showing the record reductions in summer ice extent compared to the past and record season anomalous factors, denying the Climate Crisis today is like being a Flat earther!

PragmaticAntithesis

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Re: Freeform season chatter and light commentary
« Reply #629 on: August 01, 2020, 05:55:50 PM »
I'm going to wait for PIOMAS data to come out before making any minimum predictions. I must check if the recent extent slowdowns are actually caused by ice not melting or if it's dispersion fooling the numbers.
A single seed in the right place can sprout an entire forest.

Tor Bejnar

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Re: Freeform season chatter and light commentary
« Reply #630 on: August 01, 2020, 07:37:01 PM »
Glennbuck,
I'm glad you acknowledge that New Zealand, God's Own, is at (o at least very near) the top of the world!   :)
Arctic ice is healthy for children and other living things.

igs

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Re: Freeform season chatter and light commentary
« Reply #631 on: August 01, 2020, 08:31:31 PM »
It's funny how the cc deniers always come up with the one measure out of twenty that supports their argument that the ice isn't melting.
If there is a high pressure, then the ice isn't melting, it's compacting.
If there is a low pressure and the ice is spreading out: it's obvious that the ice isn't melting, because extent numbers aren't freefalling.
MFW reading their comments:



Great and important post and it drives me nuts every day, have to hold back with the power of a heavy truck.
Knowledge that does not increase every day will decrease every day !

glennbuck

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Re: Freeform season chatter and light commentary
« Reply #632 on: August 01, 2020, 09:45:57 PM »
Bit of good news for the day  :D

Climate change hits back, Svalbard coal mine flooded by melting glacier

https://thebarentsobserver.com/en/industry-and-energy/2020/07/coal-mine-flooded-melting-glacier