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Author Topic: Could Jevons paradox be explained using the Eurovision song contest?  (Read 438 times)

etienne

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Just look on youtube the winners in the 60's, 70's, ... and yesterday.

Neven

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What happened yesterday? Are people still watching/following that Eurovision stuff? I'm very ashamed of having done so in the past, but blame my girlfriend and my mom's gay friends.
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b_lumenkraft

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Wat?

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oren

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This year's Eurovision Song Contest took place less than a mile from where I live. We watched it on TV from start to finish - my daughters wouldn't have it any other way. Although the songs are ho hum, I really like the multinational love fest.
I just wish the whole country was like Tel Aviv - peace-seeking, progressive, secular, diversified and friendly.

etienne

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Same thing here. My son stayed up until the end. But the technology was impressive.

gerontocrat

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I go elsewhere when I need a dose of humiliation

The United Kingdom came in 26th place (last) with only 16 points from 41 International juries and the Public.

I am quite content to blame Jevon's Paradox for this.
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Bernard

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Maybe it's Sunday morning and I did not get enough coffee, but I fail to see what the Jevons paradox has to do with all this.  :-\

Neven

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Maybe it's Sunday morning and I did not get enough coffee, but I fail to see what the Jevons paradox has to do with all this.  :-\

The easier it becomes to make shit, the more you get of it.  ;D
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etienne

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Well if you compare France Gall in 1965, ABBA in 1974 and what we saw yesterday, technology is now much more efficient, but general kWh consumed must now be much higher, even with LED lights and low consumption flat screens , better cameras and better planes to transport people.

Neven

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Re: Could Jevons paradox be explained using the Eurovision song contest?
« Reply #10 on: May 19, 2019, 12:06:32 PM »
I'm sorry, etienne, I thought you referred to the quality of the music.  :D

If it's about energy use, I'd say Jevons Paradox doesn't have all that much to do with it. It's not because of efficiency gains in lighting etc, that there's an increase in demand. The increase has to do with the fact that in entertainment you can't keep doing the same thing. It always has to be harder, better, faster, stronger. So that demand doesn't dwindle, because of - watch out - boredom. Of course, one of the drivers behind technological progress is the failure to accept boredom as an inescapable facet of life. Technological progress makes things cheaper, and so more can be used. That sounds a bit like Jevons Paradox, but it's not the increased energy efficiency itself driving the increase in energy use.

PS I'm glad I left the Netherlands years ago. The country seems to be awash in nationalistic pride. If only people could get this excited about solving climate change.  ::)
« Last Edit: May 19, 2019, 12:23:41 PM by Neven »
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pietkuip

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Re: Could Jevons paradox be explained using the Eurovision song contest?
« Reply #11 on: May 19, 2019, 01:07:55 PM »
PS I'm glad I left the Netherlands years ago. The country seems to be awash in nationalistic pride. If only people could get this excited about solving climate change.  ::)
They cannot solve it. The ones that want to remain there should start thinking about adaptation. Floating villages might be an idea.

P-maker

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Re: Could Jevons paradox be explained using the Eurovision song contest?
« Reply #12 on: May 19, 2019, 05:10:12 PM »
Since, by all means and measures, watching TV is the absolutely least energy-consuming activity in the whole World, it is by far better to have 200 million people watching this shit for three hours, than doing anything else whatsoever. Brain activity is at an absolute minimum, coffee machines and Qookers are stranding idle, lights are down, no one is driving or flying anywhere, no molotov cocktails are thrown, and no wars are started. It is a perfect way to save the sea ice. Pity it only lasts a day or two for most people.

gerontocrat

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Re: Could Jevons paradox be explained using the Eurovision song contest?
« Reply #13 on: May 19, 2019, 05:37:38 PM »
Since, by all means and measures, watching TV is the absolutely least energy-consuming activity in the whole World, it is by far better to have 200 million people watching this shit for three hours, than doing anything else whatsoever. Brain activity is at an absolute minimum, coffee machines and Qookers are stranding idle, lights are down, no one is driving or flying anywhere, no molotov cocktails are thrown, and no wars are started. It is a perfect way to save the sea ice. Pity it only lasts a day or two for most people.
A vision of hell - 24/7 Eurovision.
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wili

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Re: Could Jevons paradox be explained using the Eurovision song contest?
« Reply #14 on: May 19, 2019, 05:49:55 PM »
Neven wrote: " I'm glad I left the Netherlands years ago. The country seems to be awash in nationalistic pride. If only people could get this excited about solving climate change."

Do I recall correctly that you are now in Austria? Seems a bit more nationalistic than the Netherlands (even after the recent resignation of the nationalist far-right vice chancellor). It's pretty hard these days to find countries where nationalists don't have a prominent place.

Also, may I ask which town or area you were from? My daughter just moved to Utrecht and likes it very much.
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magnamentis

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Re: Could Jevons paradox be explained using the Eurovision song contest?
« Reply #15 on: May 19, 2019, 06:12:54 PM »

PS I'm glad I left the Netherlands years ago. The country seems to be awash in nationalistic pride. If only people could get this excited about solving climate change.  ::)

hmm... left NL for Austria to dodge nationalist pride ?

i won't go there, no worries but i'm very surprised to hear that from you who's judgement is so often spot on.

to be clear, A is one of the most nationalist POPULATION not even only the elite and ....

can't start else it would overwhelm me, not having that ther worst nationalist ever was an austrian, perhaps a coincidence but i doubt it.

to make sure that i this is not personal or part of the we are better blabla... the swiss are not that far behind, they only won a few wars against the habsburgs which is interesting when putting into account that the "Habsburg" is in Switzerland in the canton of "Aargau" hence the "Habsburgs" of the "Habsburg K&K Monachy were originally swiss LOL.

i'm drifting off, i know, just wanted to express my astonishment about evading nationalism by moving to austria ;) sorry and no offend meant.
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Neven

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Re: Could Jevons paradox be explained using the Eurovision song contest?
« Reply #16 on: May 19, 2019, 08:00:40 PM »
Also, may I ask which town or area you were from? My daughter just moved to Utrecht and likes it very much.

I've been to Utrecht many times, because my cousin lived there, and really liked it. Amsterdam used to be great too, but has now become part of the tourist Twilight Zone.

My impression has always been that the Netherlands wasn't very chauvinistic - compared to other countries - and it was famous for its tolerance and lack of religious zealotry. But I think the emptiness of consumer culture has become too much, and so things like football and Eurovision are needed to still have that feeling of belonging to something larger.

I think the root of nazism has always remained alive in Austria. The people here are extremely conformist and they all keep each other in a social stranglehold. That doesn't make them evil per se, just amazingly conditioned.

The reason I moved here, is because it's close to Croatia, it's relatively cheap to build a house (or used to be) on a larger plot of land, and it's still in the EU/West (language, infrastructure, homeschooling options). I also find other people's nationalism less embarrassing than that of my own (knowing all the ins and outs).

But to get back on topic: No, I don't think Jevons Paradox can be explained using Eurovision, unless we're talking music quality.  ;)
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etienne

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Re: Could Jevons paradox be explained using the Eurovision song contest?
« Reply #17 on: May 19, 2019, 08:50:20 PM »
Well, what is the relation between music quality, Eurovision and Jevons ? I really don't get it. Eurovision has always been a type of music that was hearable by a large spectrum of people, which means without too much originality. Of course there has been great exceptions.

Neven

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Re: Could Jevons paradox be explained using the Eurovision song contest?
« Reply #18 on: May 19, 2019, 08:55:03 PM »
Well, what is the relation between music quality, Eurovision and Jevons ?

If I would have to paraphrase Jevons Paradox, I would do it like this: If something becomes easier to produce due to increased efficiency, you expect to save energy or a resource. But paradoxically, demand increases because of lowered costs, and you end up using more energy/resources.

So, my joke was that as it becomes easier to produce shitty music, the demand for it will grow, hence Eurovision becoming ever more grotesque.  ;)

But I believe you were referring to increased energy use, right?
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etienne

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Re: Could Jevons paradox be explained using the Eurovision song contest?
« Reply #19 on: May 19, 2019, 09:48:09 PM »
 LOL, I never saw it that way, but there are many ways to apply this paradox, for example with administrative reporting.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2019, 09:55:29 PM by etienne »