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Espen

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North Pole Web Cam 2013
« on: April 20, 2013, 09:59:51 AM »
Here is a link for this seasons web cam:

http://psc.apl.washington.edu/northpole/
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Vergent

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Re: North Pole Web Cam 2013
« Reply #1 on: April 20, 2013, 10:50:43 AM »
Thanks for the link.

V

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Re: North Pole Web Cam 2013
« Reply #2 on: April 24, 2013, 02:32:44 AM »
Thanks, Espen.



Espen

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Re: North Pole Web Cam 2013
« Reply #3 on: May 01, 2013, 03:56:17 PM »
Just to let you know, within the last 24 hrs. open water was seen near the webcam, and the latest image shows a pressure ridge very close too.

On the first image you see the open water in the background.

On the second you see the new ridge.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2013, 04:03:13 PM by Espen »
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Jim

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Re: North Pole Web Cam 2013
« Reply #4 on: May 01, 2013, 07:08:09 PM »
I wonder how long these cameras will survive - the last couple of days images from Bremen seem to indicate the ice near the pole is getting very thin!  :o


Neven

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Re: North Pole Web Cam 2013
« Reply #5 on: May 01, 2013, 07:15:16 PM »
Always check the satellite images first, Jim. Sea ice concentration near the NP is practically 100%. The discoloration is an artifact which is seen often on Uni Bremen SIC maps. Only if it persists for several days in the exact same spot there's a possibility that SIC is going down.
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Jim

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Re: North Pole Web Cam 2013
« Reply #6 on: May 01, 2013, 07:25:31 PM »
Hi Neven,
I get what you are saying, but the Bremen chart was similar yesterday as well. I had a look at the EOSDIS Worldview image for today, and zoomed in on the pole - although there is a bit of obscuring cloud, there does seem to be a fair amount of break-up in the ice near the pole.
Is this just normal ice shifting about? (You know how I feel about jumping to conclusions too quickly  ::))
What do you think?


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Re: North Pole Web Cam 2013
« Reply #7 on: May 01, 2013, 07:34:58 PM »
I think it's still too early for really extraordinary things to be visible from space. Ask me again towards the end of the month.   ;D
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Re: North Pole Web Cam 2013
« Reply #8 on: May 01, 2013, 08:10:39 PM »
Very true Neven - I've marked the calendar  ;)

Espen

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Re: North Pole Web Cam 2013
« Reply #9 on: May 01, 2013, 10:56:17 PM »
Still believing it is not a ridge?

I think what you call dark shadow, is open water (image # 1 above):


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CraigsIsland

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Re: North Pole Web Cam 2013
« Reply #10 on: May 02, 2013, 03:16:39 AM »
ice concentration (as of April 30th) isn't too great in the area:



plus navy sea ice drift:

 

and navy sea ice concentration:


Espen

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Re: North Pole Web Cam 2013
« Reply #11 on: May 02, 2013, 11:01:27 AM »
I am not sure this web cam will survive this season?!

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ghoti

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Re: North Pole Web Cam 2013
« Reply #12 on: May 02, 2013, 10:45:13 PM »
Looking at the ice using ArcticIO's site you can see large cracks in the general area of where those webcams probably are. I don't know how to pinpoint them but take a look yourself.

http://www.arctic.io/observations/8/2013-05-02/8-N89.828708-W152.999125

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Re: North Pole Web Cam 2013
« Reply #13 on: May 02, 2013, 11:36:05 PM »
how to pinpoint.
If you have coordinates it goes like this:

http://www.arctic.io/observations/65544/2013-05-02/8-N88.364511-E76.877619/Cracks

If the feature doesn't move drop the date:

http://www.arctic.io/observations/65544//8-N90-E0/NorthPole

;)

Edit: A bit more explanation: the number 65544 tells the map to show the Arctic + a marker. Number 8 shows only the map and no marker. The text at the end of the URL will show up as marker, code whitespace as %20. No date tells the map to load images dated now minus 28 hours. The scheme is :

arctic.io/observations/[map+overlay]/[date]/[level-latitude-longitude]/[text]
« Last Edit: May 05, 2013, 04:12:24 PM by arcticio »

Donna

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Re: North Pole Web Cam 2013
« Reply #14 on: May 04, 2013, 09:52:34 PM »
wayne http://profile.typepad.com/6p017c31916995970b over at the ASI Blog posted this -   

"

I like the last daily average graph displaying a maxima shift linked with the effect of the sun, the thinner the ice the earlier the maxima. This matches exactly what I have observed. For 2013 at 75 North 95 W the under-ice is melting for close to 12 hours daily. Will post the first 12 hour underside net melting, it could have been yesterday, but I await several days of repetition.

I also remade my calculations about the North Pole cam horizon drop which appears to be very large. I scratched my original calculation and await more pictures. The drop appears beyond all previous observations, this requires more evidence , but may be indeed linked with the recent ridging, suggesting a lot of thin ice about."  (http://neven1.typepad.com/blog/2013/05/piomas-may-2013.html)

And the link to his blog is even more interesting - http://eh2r.blogspot.ca/ 

Is it just me or are his recent findings very concerning?

ghoti

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Re: North Pole Web Cam 2013
« Reply #15 on: May 04, 2013, 10:16:10 PM »
Pity that the north pole cam photos archive hasn't updated beyond May 2nd photos.

Espen

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Re: North Pole Web Cam 2013
« Reply #16 on: May 04, 2013, 11:55:25 PM »
I dont know if it is polar bears or ridges that is problem, but no "live" streams at the moment!
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Peter Ellis

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Re: North Pole Web Cam 2013
« Reply #17 on: May 05, 2013, 12:27:39 AM »
The problem's not in the Arctic.  If you go to the archive pages for the individual cameras, the photos are still being uploaded, it's just the front page that's not updating.

http://psc.apl.washington.edu/northpole/NPEO2013/WEBCAM1/ARCHIVE/
http://psc.apl.washington.edu/northpole/NPEO2013/WEBCAM2/ARCHIVE/

The most recent photos in each directory are dated 04-May-2013 12:45, i.e. less than 11 hours ago if that's GMT, and under 6 hours if (as I suspect) it's dated according to some US timezone.  Photos are being uploaded regularly every 6 hours.

pikaia

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Re: North Pole Web Cam 2013
« Reply #18 on: May 05, 2013, 12:43:15 AM »
The directories say "last modified" on May 4th, but the file name and the date within the image both indicate May 2nd. So something strange is happening.

Vergent

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Re: North Pole Web Cam 2013
« Reply #19 on: May 05, 2013, 12:52:29 AM »
Nothing strange is happening. The images are stored in the camera until there is a good satellite link. You cant use geosynchronous on the pole. You have to wait for a polar orbiting com satellite, The images are waiting their turn. As for the horizon, the camera is settling in the snow.

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Re: North Pole Web Cam 2013
« Reply #20 on: May 05, 2013, 11:16:17 AM »
And the link to his blog is even more interesting - http://eh2r.blogspot.ca/ 

Is it just me or are his recent findings very concerning?
Donna,

you are right, that reads very concerning. But some comfort could come from the fact, that horizon changed much only on the ridge/lead side - that may not be the typical situation around the North Pole. And the early sublimation of snow is not that astonishing, if you condsider the warm Siberian air, wich is pulled just over the Pole towards Fram. It is not lower than -10°C there for allready some days - so just the usual AGW with some artic amplification again...

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Re: North Pole Web Cam 2013
« Reply #21 on: May 05, 2013, 12:04:22 PM »
If you want the precise conditions at the camera site, here is the atmospheric record:
http://psc.apl.washington.edu/northpole/PAWS975420_atmos_recent.html

... and here is the co-located mass balance buoy measuring the thickness.
http://imb.crrel.usace.army.mil/2013B.htm

It's hovering around -10 degrees C, the ice is ~2m thick, with a very thin snow layer. The ice is getting very slowly thicker, i.e. no melting yet, of snow or ice.

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Re: North Pole Web Cam 2013
« Reply #22 on: May 05, 2013, 07:36:04 PM »
The problem's not in the Arctic.  If you go to the archive pages for the individual cameras, the photos are still being uploaded, it's just the front page that's not updating.

http://psc.apl.washington.edu/northpole/NPEO2013/WEBCAM1/ARCHIVE/
http://psc.apl.washington.edu/northpole/NPEO2013/WEBCAM2/ARCHIVE/

The most recent photos in each directory are dated 04-May-2013 12:45, i.e. less than 11 hours ago if that's GMT, and under 6 hours if (as I suspect) it's dated according to some US timezone.  Photos are being uploaded regularly every 6 hours.


No Peter the last image uploaded is from May 2nd:

http://psc.apl.washington.edu/northpole/NPEO2013/WEBCAM2/ARCHIVE/npeo_cam2_20130502100934.jpg
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Peter Ellis

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Re: North Pole Web Cam 2013
« Reply #23 on: May 05, 2013, 08:06:28 PM »
Sorry, I thought you were complaining about the front page, which is still stuck on April 16th/17th for some reason.
http://psc.apl.washington.edu/northpole/

As Vergent says, the reason the archive lags a couple of days behind the actual picture date is likely due to intermittent satellite uplinking.  It seems to be a reasonably consistent lag, so I don't think there's been any major change recently.

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Re: North Pole Web Cam 2013
« Reply #24 on: May 05, 2013, 11:58:16 PM »
Except the weather data hasn't updated for a few days on two of the buoys closest to the pole as well. 2013B and 2013E at http://imb.crrel.usace.army.mil/newdata.htm are behind in updating data. I hope this isn't a serious communication failure and that the data will update soon.

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Re: North Pole Web Cam 2013
« Reply #25 on: May 06, 2013, 08:27:51 PM »
The web cam is live again! 8)
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Re: North Pole Web Cam 2013
« Reply #26 on: May 08, 2013, 09:44:31 PM »
The extremely rare North Pole Frost Flower ( Septentrione florem glácies) is here seen to the left on web cam # 1:

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ghoti

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Re: North Pole Web Cam 2013
« Reply #27 on: May 09, 2013, 01:59:49 AM »
Is that heavy fog over the pole?

Vergent

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Re: North Pole Web Cam 2013
« Reply #28 on: May 09, 2013, 07:41:28 PM »
Is that heavy fog over the pole?

No, you can see the horizon. It's just overcast.

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Re: North Pole Web Cam 2013
« Reply #29 on: May 10, 2013, 01:01:03 PM »
A ridge is developing on the left side of webcam # 1 at the Pole:

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Re: North Pole Web Cam 2013
« Reply #30 on: May 16, 2013, 02:54:00 PM »


Is that sun reflecting off melt ponds on the left hand side?  It's minus ten degrees, so surely not!  Bare ice?

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Re: North Pole Web Cam 2013
« Reply #31 on: May 16, 2013, 03:23:22 PM »
Not melt ponds, but probably more likely surface melt ( 1 - 5 mm down), and that can happen in even very low temperatures.
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Re: North Pole Web Cam 2013
« Reply #32 on: May 28, 2013, 11:51:53 AM »
Water drops are now seen on web cam # 2:
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Re: North Pole Web Cam 2013
« Reply #33 on: May 28, 2013, 09:10:26 PM »
This isn't a surprise to me.  I've been watching temps for several days now, they've been low single digit negative to slightly above zero, all across the pack.

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Re: North Pole Web Cam 2013
« Reply #34 on: May 29, 2013, 01:08:10 AM »
Except the data from the buoy near the pole accessible via http://imb.crrel.usace.army.mil/2013B.htm show the air temperatures well below zero. Looking at the photos from the north pole cams has shown mostly heavy overcast.

My guess is snow melting on the heated camera dome.

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Re: North Pole Web Cam 2013
« Reply #35 on: May 29, 2013, 02:53:43 AM »
That buoy showed a temp of -2.8C, which is in the range I mentioned. That is just 1 degree below the freezing point of our new ice. It is well within bounds for bottom melt to be underway in earnest, by way of increased heat flow from ocean into the ice, rather than *through* the ice.

Wind and isotherm charts suggest a fairly large, direct input of heat is underway, possibly the flip side of the arctic breakout our correspodents in Europe have experienced recently.
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Re: North Pole Web Cam 2013
« Reply #36 on: May 29, 2013, 09:12:53 PM »
Is... that water... I see about 200 meters or so in the distance on webcam 1...?!

http://psc.apl.washington.edu/northpole/NPEO2013/7.jpg
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Re: North Pole Web Cam 2013
« Reply #37 on: May 31, 2013, 02:05:01 AM »
Nah... It looks like the shadow of a ridge in the ice - have a look at some better lit images, as below, and the ridges are clearer.

Is... that water... I see about 200 meters or so in the distance on webcam 1...?!

http://psc.apl.washington.edu/northpole/NPEO2013/7.jpg

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Re: North Pole Web Cam 2013
« Reply #38 on: June 02, 2013, 09:23:48 PM »
Whoa! Cam 1 three days later.


Laurent

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Re: North Pole Web Cam 2013
« Reply #39 on: June 02, 2013, 10:45:47 PM »
Clearly, the rain is something very powerful to melt the ice !
For the moment it is cold enough to freeze the water but not for a long time now !
Open water not far from the pole ! I guess the pole is in the left-lower corner of that modis tile.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2013, 12:30:04 PM by Laurent »

Espen

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Re: North Pole Web Cam 2013
« Reply #40 on: June 08, 2013, 10:24:29 AM »
Web cam # 1:

Open water is clearly seen to both the right and left of the camera:

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Laurent

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Re: North Pole Web Cam 2013
« Reply #41 on: June 08, 2013, 12:29:34 PM »

Shared Humanity

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Re: North Pole Web Cam 2013
« Reply #42 on: June 08, 2013, 01:24:21 PM »
A link for rain forecasting !
http://www.weather-forecast.com/maps/Arctic?symbols=none&type=prec

OK...stupid question....

Have they mislabeled a low over the CAB as a high?

Laurent

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Re: North Pole Web Cam 2013
« Reply #43 on: June 08, 2013, 01:43:07 PM »
Yep, There is a problem !

Neven

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Re: North Pole Web Cam 2013
« Reply #44 on: June 08, 2013, 03:51:58 PM »
Maybe they just wanted to say hello to their viewers. Hi!  ;)
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Re: North Pole Web Cam 2013
« Reply #45 on: June 08, 2013, 04:00:14 PM »
I would trust the pressure thought so forget about L or H and check the pressure. Hi anyway !

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Re: North Pole Web Cam 2013
« Reply #46 on: June 08, 2013, 04:08:08 PM »
the Low will still be there on June 19th. How long can it last? And what will that do to the ice?

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Re: North Pole Web Cam 2013
« Reply #47 on: June 09, 2013, 01:38:28 AM »
the Low will still be there on June 19th. How long can it last? And what will that do to the ice?

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Re: North Pole Web Cam 2013
« Reply #48 on: June 09, 2013, 10:37:55 AM »
OK folks, what is that dark line I see in webcam 1?
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Re: North Pole Web Cam 2013
« Reply #49 on: June 09, 2013, 10:41:57 AM »
OK folks, what is that dark line I see in webcam 1?

Open water.
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