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Author Topic: Northern Hemisphere Winter 2018-2019 Snowcover / Misc Obs  (Read 80115 times)

Tor Bejnar

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Re: Northern Hemisphere Winter 2018-2019 Snowcover / Misc Obs
« Reply #450 on: June 30, 2019, 06:30:40 AM »
I'll agree about your weather forecasts.  ;)
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gerontocrat

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Re: Northern Hemisphere Winter 2018-2019 Snowcover / Misc Obs
« Reply #451 on: July 01, 2019, 12:50:12 PM »
I think this is my last post on this thread - not a lot of snow left to talk about.

Click to watch North America snow melt .
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Tor Bejnar

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Re: Northern Hemisphere Winter 2018-2019 Snowcover / Misc Obs
« Reply #452 on: July 01, 2019, 06:31:12 PM »
Hey, I can see maybe 4 white pixels in north Quebec at the end.  You quitter, you!  >:( :o ::)
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TerryM

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Re: Northern Hemisphere Winter 2018-2019 Snowcover / Misc Obs
« Reply #453 on: July 04, 2019, 09:28:32 PM »
Hey, I can see maybe 4 white pixels in north Quebec at the end.  You quitter, you!  >:( :o ::)


Next season Please notice the boundary between Quebec and Newfoundland & Labrador.
Terry

Tor Bejnar

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Re: Northern Hemisphere Winter 2018-2019 Snowcover / Misc Obs
« Reply #454 on: July 04, 2019, 10:28:07 PM »
I'm moderately familiar with where the Quebec-Newfoundland boundary is, (and, in alignment with your plea, plan to retain that familiarity).  The white pixels I see (dare I say I see about 6 now) are definitely within Quebec, along the coast near the Hudson Strait and at the northernmost point of the province.  Except right along the NL border, no place for a glacier to hide, grow or bare grudges (and the grudges belong to the border region).
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bbr2314

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Re: Northern Hemisphere Winter 2018-2019 Snowcover / Misc Obs
« Reply #455 on: July 05, 2019, 09:04:21 PM »
There is still snow in the Torngats as of 7/4. The last good EOSDIS image was 6/29 but the situation is mostly unchanged. It will endure substantial or total melt, but it is certainly still there.


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Re: Northern Hemisphere Winter 2018-2019 Snowcover / Misc Obs
« Reply #456 on: July 05, 2019, 09:41:56 PM »
The Torngat mountain range has at least 120 glaciers. Doesn't the presence of these glaciers suggest that snow surviving through the summer is a regular occurrence?

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Re: Northern Hemisphere Winter 2018-2019 Snowcover / Misc Obs
« Reply #457 on: July 05, 2019, 09:58:04 PM »
The Torngat mountain range has at least 120 glaciers. Doesn't the presence of these glaciers suggest that snow surviving through the summer is a regular occurrence?
They are not visible on satellite. Most years, 2018 excepted, all the visible snow melted.

gerontocrat

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Re: Northern Hemisphere Winter 2018-2019 Snowcover / Misc Obs
« Reply #458 on: July 05, 2019, 10:01:17 PM »
My guess is that this year, snow or no snow, those 120 glaciers will enter winter in worse shape than  the year before..

The border twixt NL and Quebec is the crest of the mountain chain? So whose got the most glaciers?
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Niall Dollard

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Re: Northern Hemisphere Winter 2018-2019 Snowcover / Misc Obs
« Reply #459 on: July 06, 2019, 04:18:22 PM »
This study reckons 11 small glaciers in the Torngats vanished between the LIA and 2005.

 

Niall Dollard

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Re: Northern Hemisphere Winter 2018-2019 Snowcover / Misc Obs
« Reply #460 on: July 06, 2019, 04:22:57 PM »
The Rutgers NH snow cover extent for June 2019 was 5.94 million km2.

This represents a negative departure of -3.48 million, just slightly less than 2016's large departure of -3.84 million.

Extent was below normal in practically all geographic areas.

gerontocrat

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Re: Northern Hemisphere Winter 2018-2019 Snowcover / Misc Obs
« Reply #461 on: July 06, 2019, 05:24:30 PM »
11 small glaciers in the Torngats vanished between the LIA and 2005.
Yep, but surely 14 years is a long time when it comes to these small mountain glaciers in marginal climes. bbr's contention is that in recent years AGW is causing a cold spot to develop in NE Canada - more snow and potential for glaciers to grow.

But without up-to-date field studies ..........
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gerontocrat

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Re: Northern Hemisphere Winter 2018-2019 Snowcover / Misc Obs
« Reply #462 on: July 07, 2019, 11:51:16 AM »
Hey, I can see maybe 4 white pixels in north Quebec at the end.  You quitter, you!  >:( :o ::)

OK, the insult worked. Just for you a gif. Needs a click.
"watch it very carefully, I will play it only once"

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ps: I will continue to produce a gif when there is no snow. Watching something that has no change can be restful.
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b_lumenkraft

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Re: Northern Hemisphere Winter 2018-2019 Snowcover / Misc Obs
« Reply #463 on: July 07, 2019, 12:17:51 PM »
I will play it only once

* b_lumenkraft *cmd+r, cmd+r, cmd+r, cmd+r, cmd+r, cmd+r, cmd+r, cmd+r*

grixm

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Re: Northern Hemisphere Winter 2018-2019 Snowcover / Misc Obs
« Reply #464 on: July 07, 2019, 01:31:12 PM »
I will play it only once

* b_lumenkraft *cmd+r, cmd+r, cmd+r, cmd+r, cmd+r, cmd+r, cmd+r, cmd+r*

I cannot get it to play again even by refreshing or opening the attachment again. What black magic is this?

gerontocrat

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Re: Northern Hemisphere Winter 2018-2019 Snowcover / Misc Obs
« Reply #465 on: July 07, 2019, 01:41:59 PM »
I will play it only once

* b_lumenkraft *cmd+r, cmd+r, cmd+r, cmd+r, cmd+r, cmd+r, cmd+r, cmd+r*

I cannot get it to play again even by refreshing or opening the attachment again. What black magic is this?
Dunno.
I just wander down the thread, click the image and bingo.
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Tor Bejnar

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Re: Northern Hemisphere Winter 2018-2019 Snowcover / Misc Obs
« Reply #466 on: July 07, 2019, 07:32:43 PM »
Fortunately, I enlarged Quebec to count pixels before being shut out of the GIF.  Only 2 white ones in the province, now, and one of them on the mid-bay coast.
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gerontocrat

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Re: Northern Hemisphere Winter 2018-2019 Snowcover / Misc Obs
« Reply #467 on: July 07, 2019, 07:43:37 PM »
Fortunately, I enlarged Quebec to count pixels before being shut out of the GIF.  Only 2 white ones in the province, now, and one of them on the mid-bay coast.
I used the gif with changes on the melting thread.
So if you want to count some other pixels here it is.

https://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php/topic,2591.msg211606.html#msg211606

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Pixel-counters. Worse than bean counters. Bleah.
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TerryM

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Re: Northern Hemisphere Winter 2018-2019 Snowcover / Misc Obs
« Reply #468 on: July 08, 2019, 01:47:46 AM »
I'm moderately familiar with where the Quebec-Newfoundland boundary is, (and, in alignment with your plea, plan to retain that familiarity).  The white pixels I see (dare I say I see about 6 now) are definitely within Quebec, along the coast near the Hudson Strait and at the northernmost point of the province.  Except right along the NL border, no place for a glacier to hide, grow or bare grudges (and the grudges belong to the border region).


Tor
Huge apologies Tor.


'Twas another that had driven me to madness by continuously conflating late spring ice lingering in Labrador with permanent glacial growth in Quebec. When you mentioned lingering ice in Quebec I lashed out, and blinded by my rage failed to notice whom I was flailing away at.


Sincerely Sorry for my Error
Contritely Yours
Terry  :-[

Tor Bejnar

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Re: Northern Hemisphere Winter 2018-2019 Snowcover / Misc Obs
« Reply #469 on: July 08, 2019, 02:42:22 AM »
I, too, was irked  :)
I've been to Quebec (Expo 67), Ontario and two Maritime Provinces, but not very far north in the east, and not to Newfoundland and Labrador.  Traveling to Lake Huron's Georgian Bay seemed "far north" to me at the time!  I took a bus from Fairbanks, AK to Whitehorse, YT once (and bus/train to Skagway, AK), and have seen some of Alberta and British Columbia (Vancouver Island and up to Price Rupert, even Houston, BC).  I just learned, thanks to the internet, that Newfoundland changed its name in 2001; when I was a student 'learning things', Labrador was 'just' the big island part of Newfoundland. 

A graduate supervisor, however, did his PhD field work in Labrador (and I heard insect stories from him) and a friend spent a pleasant several days with a family in Gander in September 2001, an unexpected stay by all several thousand passengers in a similar happenstance.

I've seen snow fall in Alaska (August!), but none in Canada.  Does it even snow there? :o ::) :P
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TerryM

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Re: Northern Hemisphere Winter 2018-2019 Snowcover / Misc Obs
« Reply #470 on: July 08, 2019, 06:00:57 AM »
Tor
Locally we still get some snow, but the river no longer regularly freezes over.


On the coasts of Labrador the raised beaches stretch hundreds of feet up the headlands which are still rebounding from the the melt of the last ice age.


The Harbor at L'Anse Aux Meadows in Newfoundland has apparently lost 5 meters in depth since the Vikings were there ~1M ago, and the sea is still receding.


The most shocking thing may be the retreat of the Athabasca Glacier between Banff and Jasper. It must have melted back miles since I first saw it some decades ago.
Cheers
Terry

Tor Bejnar

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Re: Northern Hemisphere Winter 2018-2019 Snowcover / Misc Obs
« Reply #471 on: July 08, 2019, 06:16:09 AM »
My mom always used "M" to be "1,000 x", as it is a Roman Numeral. 

Ah, the glaciers I don't want to see again, as if I might recognize them.  I grew up with a water color of Lake Louise, but I don't recall if we went there when I was 10.
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TerryM

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Re: Northern Hemisphere Winter 2018-2019 Snowcover / Misc Obs
« Reply #472 on: July 10, 2019, 02:22:37 AM »
My mom always used "M" to be "1,000 x", as it is a Roman Numeral. 

Ah, the glaciers I don't want to see again, as if I might recognize them.  I grew up with a water color of Lake Louise, but I don't recall if we went there when I was 10.
Perhaps the use of "M" is a generational thing?


The color of the water in Lake Louis, and many other glacier fed lakes is too green to appear real. I've plenty of photos, but would hate to attempt painting it lest every viewer thought I was seeing the world through green hued lenses.  :-\
Terry


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Re: Northern Hemisphere Winter 2018-2019 Snowcover / Misc Obs
« Reply #473 on: August 01, 2019, 12:56:53 PM »
Attached is a gif of North America snow cover in July. Click to start. Plays 4? times and stops.

You can see the snow reducing on the islands of the CAA and the ice disappearing in Baffin Bay etc.
You can also see than snowfall never really stops in the NW Rockies and the mountains of Alaska.

In August we will see the snow attempting to return here and there.
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Re: Northern Hemisphere Winter 2018-2019 Snowcover / Misc Obs
« Reply #474 on: August 02, 2019, 10:24:28 AM »
^^ Great gif ^^


Thanks
Terry

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Re: Northern Hemisphere Winter 2018-2019 Snowcover / Misc Obs
« Reply #475 on: August 07, 2019, 05:33:21 AM »
First big falls of the season set to occur within next week or so over northern Alaska and the high elevation Rockies. Some runs of the extended GFS have been snowing substantial totals into the Lower 48 Rockies (Montana, Alberta).





Will be time for the new seasonal thread on 9/1 I suppose as that's when coverage should get more persistent (at least in places where it didn't last through that point ;) ).

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Re: Northern Hemisphere Winter 2018-2019 Snowcover / Misc Obs
« Reply #476 on: August 07, 2019, 03:26:48 PM »
Can’t wait. Might be better to first evaluate the snow that has survived this melt season.

gerontocrat

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Re: Northern Hemisphere Winter 2018-2019 Snowcover / Misc Obs
« Reply #477 on: August 07, 2019, 04:12:44 PM »
Can’t wait. Might be better to first evaluate the snow that has survived this melt season.
Attached are graphs and maps from Environment Canada
Note that Eurasia data includes the Himalayas and Tibet. As at end July, that is just about all the snow. The Rutgers data seems to be all Northern hemisphere as well. Bit of a bummer when we are interested in high latitudes only.

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Re: Northern Hemisphere Winter 2018-2019 Snowcover / Misc Obs
« Reply #478 on: August 07, 2019, 06:55:28 PM »
Not surprising that the remaining positive snow anomalies are the coastal regions. No doubt the effect of open water induced snowfalls.

bbr2314

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Re: Northern Hemisphere Winter 2018-2019 Snowcover / Misc Obs
« Reply #479 on: August 10, 2019, 07:59:58 AM »
Models now showing major snow totals, the puke-age should be starting within the next week.




Shared Humanity

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Re: Northern Hemisphere Winter 2018-2019 Snowcover / Misc Obs
« Reply #480 on: August 10, 2019, 02:12:39 PM »
Seems awfully early for heavy snowfall but this is Alaska. Do you know if this is early for snow?

Alaska has had the hottest summer on record.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/weather/2019/07/30/alaskas-summer-heat-has-been-basically-off-charts/

Earlier snowfall then usual will wreak havoc on the permafrost.

bbr2314

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Re: Northern Hemisphere Winter 2018-2019 Snowcover / Misc Obs
« Reply #481 on: August 10, 2019, 04:23:33 PM »
Seems awfully early for heavy snowfall but this is Alaska. Do you know if this is early for snow?

Alaska has had the hottest summer on record.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/weather/2019/07/30/alaskas-summer-heat-has-been-basically-off-charts/

Earlier snowfall then usual will wreak havoc on the permafrost.
I am not sure but I think it is, although these forecasts are still not short-term (though amounts are now appearing in the short term). Even though it isn't snowing in Fairbanks or Anchorage just yet, I do think these high elevation events in AK and the Yukon are very early -- if they continue, it could be an indicator of a very early and severe winter across much of the continent(s) which IMO would be supported by the record amounts of potential water vapor (+SSTs) we have seen develop across the Arctic this year.

Tor Bejnar

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Re: Northern Hemisphere Winter 2018-2019 Snowcover / Misc Obs
« Reply #482 on: August 10, 2019, 10:38:20 PM »
I experienced sleet in Circle City (NE of Fairbanks) in late August ~40 years ago.  I didn't have a sense locals thought it was early.  Of course, it wasn't heavy snow, either.  The internet suggests this location gets, on average, no snow in August and 25 mm in September and regular snowfall October through March (50 to 230 mm per month).  Circle is on the Yukon River where it meanders 175 m above sea level; that is, it ain't in the mountains.
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Shared Humanity

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Re: Northern Hemisphere Winter 2018-2019 Snowcover / Misc Obs
« Reply #483 on: August 11, 2019, 12:10:14 AM »
I experienced sleet in Circle City (NE of Fairbanks) in late August ~40 years ago.  I didn't have a sense locals thought it was early.  Of course, it wasn't heavy snow, either.  The internet suggests this location gets, on average, no snow in August and 25 mm in September and regular snowfall October through March (50 to 230 mm per month).  Circle is on the Yukon River where it meanders 175 m above sea level; that is, it ain't in the mountains.

sounds like it might be normal...

DrTskoul

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Re: Northern Hemisphere Winter 2018-2019 Snowcover / Misc Obs
« Reply #484 on: August 11, 2019, 12:26:39 AM »
It is normal. I have seen snow in Calgary in August and September a few years ago, and the locals have seen snow all months of the year.

Sebastian Jones

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Re: Northern Hemisphere Winter 2018-2019 Snowcover / Misc Obs
« Reply #485 on: August 11, 2019, 08:12:04 AM »
It is not normal to have extensive snow here in August.
We expect to have snow above 2000m in August, but it is unusual below 1000m.
At 300m, where I live, we used to be assured of snow that stays in early October- and that temps would stay below freezing after (Canadian) Thanksgiving. But that seems to be changing.....

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Re: Northern Hemisphere Winter 2018-2019 Snowcover / Misc Obs
« Reply #486 on: August 13, 2019, 12:47:41 PM »
"The North Wind doth blow, and we will have snow."

I guess it is time to open a 2019-20 thread, but leaving this one open for the autopsy of 2018-19.
But not to be opened by me.

click gif to start
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Re: Northern Hemisphere Winter 2018-2019 Snowcover / Misc Obs
« Reply #487 on: August 13, 2019, 06:41:09 PM »
"The North Wind doth blow, and we will have snow."

I guess it is time to open a 2019-20 thread, but leaving this one open for the autopsy of 2018-19.
But not to be opened by me.

No sign of any snow build up leading to a recurrence of the Labrador ice sheet.
Yet.

bbr2314

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Re: Northern Hemisphere Winter 2018-2019 Snowcover / Misc Obs
« Reply #488 on: August 13, 2019, 06:43:50 PM »
"The North Wind doth blow, and we will have snow."

I guess it is time to open a 2019-20 thread, but leaving this one open for the autopsy of 2018-19.
But not to be opened by me.

No sign of any snow build up leading to a recurrence of the Labrador ice sheet.
Yet.

The Torngat Mountains appear to have retained snowcover through summer but satellite is spotty and cloudy as of late. It does not get picked up on the low-res map you quoted.

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Re: Northern Hemisphere Winter 2018-2019 Snowcover / Misc Obs
« Reply #489 on: August 14, 2019, 05:10:53 AM »

The Torngat Mountains appear to have retained snowcover through summer but satellite is spotty and cloudy as of late. It does not get picked up on the low-res map you quoted.

Dear BBR,
I really love your hypothesis about a reglaciation in Northern Labrador and Quebec.
I have always been fascinated with snow and ice, glaciers and permafrost.
It was a great disappointment to me when as a teenager in the '70s that I discovered that, no, the planet is not cooling off after all and I would not be able to witness glaciers reforming in Scotland (I was born in the UK).
I moved to a nice cold place as soon as I could, and have been mostly satisfied with the prevalence of snow and ice, glaciers and permafrost here in the Yukon.
There is a mountain range near me that was glaciated until the Holocene.
It was surrounded by ice free Beringia, so acted as a sort of refugium during the ice ages.
The glaciers are gone, but snow persisted through the summer and some ice patches are quite old.
This summer, for the first time in living memory, all the snow and ice melted.
No more glaciers on the horizon here.
So, while I rather doubt the feedbacks you detail will result in the regrowth of an ice sheet, be assured that I really, really hope I am wrong and you are right.

bbr2314

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Re: Northern Hemisphere Winter 2018-2019 Snowcover / Misc Obs
« Reply #490 on: August 14, 2019, 06:18:51 AM »

The Torngat Mountains appear to have retained snowcover through summer but satellite is spotty and cloudy as of late. It does not get picked up on the low-res map you quoted.

Dear BBR,
I really love your hypothesis about a reglaciation in Northern Labrador and Quebec.
I have always been fascinated with snow and ice, glaciers and permafrost.
It was a great disappointment to me when as a teenager in the '70s that I discovered that, no, the planet is not cooling off after all and I would not be able to witness glaciers reforming in Scotland (I was born in the UK).
I moved to a nice cold place as soon as I could, and have been mostly satisfied with the prevalence of snow and ice, glaciers and permafrost here in the Yukon.
There is a mountain range near me that was glaciated until the Holocene.
It was surrounded by ice free Beringia, so acted as a sort of refugium during the ice ages.
The glaciers are gone, but snow persisted through the summer and some ice patches are quite old.
This summer, for the first time in living memory, all the snow and ice melted.
No more glaciers on the horizon here.
So, while I rather doubt the feedbacks you detail will result in the regrowth of an ice sheet, be assured that I really, really hope I am wrong and you are right.
I actually hope I am wrong, as I think this would be a death knell for the current world, but I appreciate your kind words, and I envy your location!  :)

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Re: Northern Hemisphere Winter 2018-2019 Snowcover / Misc Obs
« Reply #491 on: August 14, 2019, 03:18:46 PM »
"The North Wind doth blow, and we will have snow."

I guess it is time to open a 2019-20 thread, but leaving this one open for the autopsy of 2018-19.
But not to be opened by me.

No sign of any snow build up leading to a recurrence of the Labrador ice sheet.
Yet.

The Torngat Mountains appear to have retained snowcover through summer but satellite is spotty and cloudy as of late. It does not get picked up on the low-res map you quoted.

The Torngats have around 130 small glaciers, most of them shrinking. For glaciers to exist, snow would have to survive the melt season routinely.