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Author Topic: The Marvelous Geoengineering Benefits of Continued Pollution  (Read 976 times)

Eco-Author

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The Marvelous Geoengineering Benefits of Continued Pollution
« on: August 17, 2018, 05:09:00 AM »
Based on a suggestion by Juan C. GarcĂ­a, this thread is intended for policies and solutions to counter and survive abrupt climate change! Can we survive rapid climate change and what would it take to do so?  What is the best way to stop and reverse its effects.... Possible repercussions of a blue ocean...
Self-sufficiency and Durability to disasters are the absolute keys to nearly any disaster you can think of such as War, economic collapse, pandemics, Global warming, quakes, volcanoes, Hurricanes... all of which put solar farms etc. and power grids at risk!

bbr2314

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Re: Policy & Solutions
« Reply #1 on: August 17, 2018, 05:13:35 AM »
There is no solution. The decline in aerosols from any actions would push us past +2.5C vs baseline. At that point Greenland hosing accelerates beyond current levels and we are beyond f*cked.

The only hope we have of living out our current lives without severe disruption is to continue business as usual and continue burning coal / etc. As bad as that sounds. Without it, the world will torch and everyone will die anyways, so we might as well continue BAU for as long as possible, which probably won't be much longer anyways.

Alternately, we could release a plague with 100% mortality in Eurasia / Africa and allow all the rich people to come to the Americas and Australia as long as they invest in real estate, quarantining using oceans (Japan / the UK can survive too). That would probably allow sufficient death / forest regrowth to take CO2 down majorly, and the capital influx / extra $$$ for retrenchment of infrastructure could allow survival in the remaining habitable regions even with the +2.5C temps vs. 1900. That probably leaves a billion or so remaining humans, which would bring us down to manageable levels.

Bruce Steele

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Re: Policy & Solutions
« Reply #2 on: August 17, 2018, 05:28:31 AM »
I think the Arctic Sea Ice page description is self evident  ... the ice. You are just making more work for Neven which really sucks. Please go to the Policy & Solutions page.

GoSouthYoungins

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Re: Policy & Solutions
« Reply #3 on: August 17, 2018, 05:51:23 AM »
There is no solution. The decline in aerosols from any actions would push us past +2.5C vs baseline. At that point Greenland hosing accelerates beyond current levels and we are beyond f*cked.

The only hope we have of living out our current lives without severe disruption is to continue business as usual and continue burning coal / etc. As bad as that sounds. Without it, the world will torch and everyone will die anyways, so we might as well continue BAU for as long as possible, which probably won't be much longer anyways.

Alternately, we could release a plague with 100% mortality in Eurasia / Africa and allow all the rich people to come to the Americas and Australia as long as they invest in real estate, quarantining using oceans (Japan / the UK can survive too). That would probably allow sufficient death / forest regrowth to take CO2 down majorly, and the capital influx / extra $$$ for retrenchment of infrastructure could allow survival in the remaining habitable regions even with the +2.5C temps vs. 1900. That probably leaves a billion or so remaining humans, which would bring us down to manageable levels.

Explain how if this accidental side effect of our GHG emissions is the only thing keeping us from apocalypse,  we are incapable of intentionally doing something more severe to counteract the GHG effect.
big time oops

Wherestheice

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Re: Policy & Solutions
« Reply #4 on: August 17, 2018, 06:02:26 AM »
There is no solution. The decline in aerosols from any actions would push us past +2.5C vs baseline. At that point Greenland hosing accelerates beyond current levels and we are beyond f*cked.

The only hope we have of living out our current lives without severe disruption is to continue business as usual and continue burning coal / etc. As bad as that sounds. Without it, the world will torch and everyone will die anyways, so we might as well continue BAU for as long as possible, which probably won't be much longer anyways.

Alternately, we could release a plague with 100% mortality in Eurasia / Africa and allow all the rich people to come to the Americas and Australia as long as they invest in real estate, quarantining using oceans (Japan / the UK can survive too). That would probably allow sufficient death / forest regrowth to take CO2 down majorly, and the capital influx / extra $$$ for retrenchment of infrastructure could allow survival in the remaining habitable regions even with the +2.5C temps vs. 1900. That probably leaves a billion or so remaining humans, which would bring us down to manageable levels.

Explain how if this accidental side effect of our GHG emissions is the only thing keeping us from apocalypse,  we are incapable of intentionally doing something more severe to counteract the GHG effect.

That seems like a hard question to answer. Long story short, aerosols are a problem, and they are an near-term problem. A 35%-80% reduction in industrial activity leads to a quick 1 degree C rise in temperature.
"When the ice goes..... F***

Wherestheice

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Re: Policy & Solutions
« Reply #5 on: August 17, 2018, 06:04:44 AM »
If only 35% reduction equals 1 C, 90% reduction in Aerosols would lead to 3 C rise. That's the conservative approach. This forum doesn't belong in the sea ice tho
"When the ice goes..... F***

bbr2314

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Re: Policy & Solutions
« Reply #6 on: August 17, 2018, 06:04:57 AM »
There is no solution. The decline in aerosols from any actions would push us past +2.5C vs baseline. At that point Greenland hosing accelerates beyond current levels and we are beyond f*cked.

The only hope we have of living out our current lives without severe disruption is to continue business as usual and continue burning coal / etc. As bad as that sounds. Without it, the world will torch and everyone will die anyways, so we might as well continue BAU for as long as possible, which probably won't be much longer anyways.

Alternately, we could release a plague with 100% mortality in Eurasia / Africa and allow all the rich people to come to the Americas and Australia as long as they invest in real estate, quarantining using oceans (Japan / the UK can survive too). That would probably allow sufficient death / forest regrowth to take CO2 down majorly, and the capital influx / extra $$$ for retrenchment of infrastructure could allow survival in the remaining habitable regions even with the +2.5C temps vs. 1900. That probably leaves a billion or so remaining humans, which would bring us down to manageable levels.

Explain how if this accidental side effect of our GHG emissions is the only thing keeping us from apocalypse,  we are incapable of intentionally doing something more severe to counteract the GHG effect.
Aerosols are responsible for cooling, if we stop dirty pollution, global temps will spike another 1C and the world will end. The "fix" to the problem would only make absolute AGW substantially worse.

There are no easy solutions, geo-engineering would only make things worse. The only viable path forward is focusing capital on defendable areas and eliminating the 6-7 billion excess apes currently on Earth. And that won't happen willingly, so it'll probably end up occurring through wars, nuclear or otherwise, or something horribly natural.

GoSouthYoungins

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Re: Policy & Solutions
« Reply #7 on: August 17, 2018, 06:13:22 AM »
If only 35% reduction equals 1 C, 90% reduction in Aerosols would lead to 3 C rise. That's the conservative approach. This forum doesn't belong in the sea ice tho

So our accidental aerosols move the needle multiple degrees Celsius, why can't we intentionally put more aerosols into the air to move the needle a couple degrees lower?
big time oops

bbr2314

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Re: Policy & Solutions
« Reply #8 on: August 17, 2018, 06:26:46 AM »
If only 35% reduction equals 1 C, 90% reduction in Aerosols would lead to 3 C rise. That's the conservative approach. This forum doesn't belong in the sea ice tho

So our accidental aerosols move the needle multiple degrees Celsius, why can't we intentionally put more aerosols into the air to move the needle a couple degrees lower?
Geo-engineering is a slippery horrible slope it is surprisingly probably less dangerous to just kill 6 billion people

SteveMDFP

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Re: Policy & Solutions
« Reply #9 on: August 17, 2018, 06:30:10 AM »
May I suggest taking the discussion off this "Policy and Solutions" thread within the "Arctic sea ice" section of the forum, and taking it to the "Policy and Solutions" section of the forum?  As Bruce requested.

This kind of misclassification of discussions bugs Neven, and we should respect the structure he has built here.

GoSouthYoungins

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Re: Policy & Solutions
« Reply #10 on: August 17, 2018, 06:42:02 AM »
May I suggest taking the discussion off this "Policy and Solutions" thread within the "Arctic sea ice" section of the forum, and taking it to the "Policy and Solutions" section of the forum?  As Bruce requested.

This kind of misclassification of discussions bugs Neven, and we should respect the structure he has built here.

If only 35% reduction equals 1 C, 90% reduction in Aerosols would lead to 3 C rise. That's the conservative approach. This forum doesn't belong in the sea ice tho

So our accidental aerosols move the needle multiple degrees Celsius, why can't we intentionally put more aerosols into the air to move the needle a couple degrees lower?
Geo-engineering is a slippery horrible slope it is surprisingly probably less dangerous to just kill 6 billion people

LLOL. The aerosols we are putting into the air are crucial to maintain the climate, otherwise everything will spin out of control. Any more aerosols will kill everyone, any less and it will kill everyone. We currently put up the only livable amount of aerosols, totally by accident. Hmmm.....

Policy-wise this is the most on-topic topic.
big time oops

SteveMDFP

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Re: Policy & Solutions
« Reply #11 on: August 17, 2018, 06:47:31 AM »

Policy-wise this is the most on-topic topic.

May I suggest taking the discussion off this "Policy and Solutions" thread within the "Arctic sea ice" section of the forum, and taking it to the "Policy and Solutions" section of the forum?  As Bruce requested.

This kind of misclassification of discussions bugs Neven, and we should respect the structure he has built here.

GoSouthYoungins

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Re: Policy & Solutions
« Reply #12 on: August 17, 2018, 06:56:17 AM »

Policy-wise this is the most on-topic topic.

May I suggest taking the discussion off this "Policy and Solutions" thread within the "Arctic sea ice" section of the forum, and taking it to the "Policy and Solutions" section of the forum?  As Bruce requested.

This kind of misclassification of discussions bugs Neven, and we should respect the structure he has built here.

I didn't realize it couldn't be a matter of policy and solutions the amount of aerosols in the atmosphere...oh the misclassification...either you or I have  inhaled too many "aerosols"?
big time oops

SteveMDFP

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Re: Policy & Solutions
« Reply #13 on: August 17, 2018, 07:19:14 AM »

Quote
May I suggest taking the discussion off this "Policy and Solutions" thread within the "Arctic sea ice" section of the forum, and taking it to the "Policy and Solutions" section of the forum?  As Bruce requested.

This kind of misclassification of discussions bugs Neven, and we should respect the structure he has built here.

I didn't realize it couldn't be a matter of policy and solutions the amount of aerosols in the atmosphere...oh the misclassification...either you or I have  inhaled too many "aerosols"?

I gather you don't understand the structure of this forum.  Eco-Author created this thread in the wrong place.  There's a whole section for Policy and Solutions.  This thread is in the section for discussions of arctic sea ice  in particular.  Discussions such as this belong in a place like here:
https://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php/topic,2378.0.html

To drop random, unrelated commentary into well-organized threads is disrespectful to Neven's work and the whole community.

GoSouthYoungins

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Re: Policy & Solutions
« Reply #14 on: August 17, 2018, 07:25:33 AM »

Quote
May I suggest taking the discussion off this "Policy and Solutions" thread within the "Arctic sea ice" section of the forum, and taking it to the "Policy and Solutions" section of the forum?  As Bruce requested.

This kind of misclassification of discussions bugs Neven, and we should respect the structure he has built here.

I didn't realize it couldn't be a matter of policy and solutions the amount of aerosols in the atmosphere...oh the misclassification...either you or I have  inhaled too many "aerosols"?

I gather you don't understand the structure of this forum.  Eco-Author created this thread in the wrong place.  There's a whole section for Policy and Solutions.  This thread is in the section for discussions of arctic sea ice  in particular.  Discussions such as this belong in a place like here:
https://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php/topic,2378.0.html

To drop random, unrelated commentary into well-organized threads is disrespectful to Neven's work and the whole community.

So the entire thread is not germane, and therefore my contribution is bad. Oh okay, I get it...

"How dare you post anything in this thread. The whole thing is inherently off topic."

Orwellian.
big time oops

jdallen

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Re: Policy & Solutions
« Reply #15 on: August 17, 2018, 07:54:50 PM »

Quote
May I suggest taking the discussion off this "Policy and Solutions" thread within the "Arctic sea ice" section of the forum, and taking it to the "Policy and Solutions" section of the forum?  As Bruce requested.

This kind of misclassification of discussions bugs Neven, and we should respect the structure he has built here.

I didn't realize it couldn't be a matter of policy and solutions the amount of aerosols in the atmosphere...oh the misclassification...either you or I have  inhaled too many "aerosols"?

I gather you don't understand the structure of this forum.  Eco-Author created this thread in the wrong place.  There's a whole section for Policy and Solutions.  This thread is in the section for discussions of arctic sea ice  in particular.  Discussions such as this belong in a place like here:
https://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php/topic,2378.0.html

To drop random, unrelated commentary into well-organized threads is disrespectful to Neven's work and the whole community.

So the entire thread is not germane, and therefore my contribution is bad. Oh okay, I get it...

"How dare you post anything in this thread. The whole thing is inherently off topic."

Orwellian.
Just Chill, please.

Structure and purpose is not the same as suppression.  It's like paint stripes on highways and traffic signs.  Nothing is preventing you from travelling somewhere, we just don't want people randomly careening around disrupting other traffic.

Your comments aren't any more important than anyone elses.
This space for Rent.

GoSouthYoungins

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Re: Policy & Solutions
« Reply #16 on: August 17, 2018, 08:16:48 PM »

Just Chill, please.


You're right. Sorry. Apologies to Steve.
big time oops

SteveMDFP

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Re: Policy & Solutions
« Reply #17 on: August 17, 2018, 08:19:11 PM »

Just Chill, please.


You're right. Sorry. Apologies to Steve.

It's all good.  We were all new here once.