Support the Arctic Sea Ice Forum and Blog

Author Topic: Let's make business!  (Read 1789 times)

Mr.Far

  • New ice
  • Posts: 19
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 0
  • Likes Given: 1
Let's make business!
« on: August 18, 2018, 07:44:12 AM »
The Arctic… This once-inhospitable corner of the world is becoming the next global commons as the polar ice cap melts. Increasingly navigable seaways and new access to natural resources create new opportunities for greater collaboration between Arctic and non-Arctic nations.
To look at this issue in depth, the Institute for the Study of Diplomacy at Georgetown University convened a working group which issued the report called “The New Arctic: Navigating the Realities, Possibilities, and Problems”. Click on that link: https://isd.georgetown.edu/sites/isd/files/the_new_arctic_-_working_group_report_2018.pdf
The researchers concluded that resource extraction and expanded sea lines will be of particular importance in the coming years.
Unfortunately, we do not cooperate with the largest player in the Arctic – Russia, because of political tensions. But everyone knows that the joint work on the implementation of projects is helping to strengthen mutually beneficial relations.
As an entrepreneur I can say that, from an economic perspective, there is much to think about. Because under the Russian ice there is more oil than in the OPEC countries all together. However the launch of new projects in this region is associated with high costs and the need of advanced technologies. And in order to develop these territories Moscow is ready to go for a dialogue and concessions.
At the moment, the best example of successful international cooperation in the region is Russian-Chinese Yamal liquefied natural gas (LNG) project – the construction of a plant for the production of liquefied natural gas with a capacity of about 16,5 million tons. Here is the link:
https://news.cgtn.com/news/3d3d774e3245444e79457a6333566d54/share.htms
Besides, melting ice means new polar routes, shortened transit times and significant commercial advantages. What Moscow calls the Northern Sea Route (NSR) stretches across 3, 000 miles. Russia will no doubt seek business partners to develop the NSR infrastructure.
So why not taking this opportunity? I think the time to think not about politics but about economic benefits has come! Nothing personal, just business.

Tor Bejnar

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 4283
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 827
  • Likes Given: 693
Re: Let's make business!
« Reply #1 on: August 18, 2018, 06:31:45 PM »
I appreciate there are those who are looking to cooperative ventures in the Arctic region, re accessibility of natural resources.  But to consider extracting petroleum products in the far North (or expanding the practice anywhere else) is like feeding the fire under the pot in which you are being boiled.  (I've seen paintings in Kashmir and Pakistan of what was done to opposing Sikh and Muslim clerics 'a long time ago' when relations were at their worst.)
(wikipedia)
Arctic ice is healthy for children and other living things because "we cannot negotiate with the melting point of ice"

Mr.Far

  • New ice
  • Posts: 19
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 0
  • Likes Given: 1
Re: Let's make business!
« Reply #2 on: August 19, 2018, 12:46:04 PM »
I appreciate there are those who are looking to cooperative ventures in the Arctic region, re accessibility of natural resources.  But to consider extracting petroleum products in the far North (or expanding the practice anywhere else) is like feeding the fire under the pot in which you are being boiled.  (I've seen paintings in Kashmir and Pakistan of what was done to opposing Sikh and Muslim clerics 'a long time ago' when relations were at their worst.)
(wikipedia)

Let’s be realistic! Everyone is screaming about ecology and harm to the nature. But have you ever thought, why does your car work or your house is heated? Or, for example, where we can find more than 5 thousand jobs? Today’s high technologies allow us to extract natural resources without any harm to the nature. I am for making this region clean and beautiful. But  energy reserves around the world are gradually ending. So why should we wait? or do you want to give all of them to others?

Milret2

  • New ice
  • Posts: 34
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 5
  • Likes Given: 135
Re: Let's make business!
« Reply #3 on: August 19, 2018, 12:51:35 PM »
I, for one, feel we have already passed the point of no return between human population growth, resource depletion, our natural war like propensities, our human greed, and both known and unknown industrial pollution. At the age of sixty seven, childless, and with only a wife I care for who is quite near my age I just hope we can have lives that will not become to miserable before we die and that our deaths will come gently.

I will do as much as I can to try to keep others from pain and misery but I do feel sorry for and to the young humans and other earth life forms for what we have left them with.

oren

  • First-year ice
  • Posts: 7658
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 3000
  • Likes Given: 2944
Re: Let's make business!
« Reply #4 on: August 19, 2018, 01:32:48 PM »
Let’s be realistic! Everyone is screaming about ecology and harm to the nature. But have you ever thought, why does your car work or your house is heated? Or, for example, where we can find more than 5 thousand jobs? Today’s high technologies allow us to extract natural resources without any harm to the nature. I am for making this region clean and beautiful. But  energy reserves around the world are gradually ending. So why should we wait? or do you want to give all of them to others?
I don't get it. The arctic is melting because of all the fossil fuels extracted and burned, leading to the emissions of massive amounts of greenhouse gases. So now you are suggesting to make use of that fact to extract and burn more fossil fuels?

Jim Hunt

  • First-year ice
  • Posts: 5490
  • Stay Home, Save Lives
    • View Profile
    • The Arctic sea ice Great White Con
  • Liked: 719
  • Likes Given: 59
Re: Let's make business!
« Reply #5 on: August 19, 2018, 05:26:01 PM »
Mr. Far has stated his case:

So why not taking this opportunity? I think the time to think not about politics but about economic benefits has come! Nothing personal, just business.

So what exactly are you suggesting Mr. F?

Green Business As Usual?
Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one - Albert Einstein

Mr.Far

  • New ice
  • Posts: 19
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 0
  • Likes Given: 1
Re: Let's make business!
« Reply #6 on: August 19, 2018, 05:37:07 PM »
Let’s be realistic! Everyone is screaming about ecology and harm to the nature. But have you ever thought, why does your car work or your house is heated? Or, for example, where we can find more than 5 thousand jobs? Today’s high technologies allow us to extract natural resources without any harm to the nature. I am for making this region clean and beautiful. But  energy reserves around the world are gradually ending. So why should we wait? or do you want to give all of them to others?
I don't get it. The arctic is melting because of all the fossil fuels extracted and burned, leading to the emissions of massive amounts of greenhouse gases. So now you are suggesting to make use of that fact to extract and burn more fossil fuels?

The question is not about my backing up larger usage of fossil fuels. My post is just like appeal to greater international cooperation and primary with Russia, as the owner of the vast Arctic territory. It’s obvious that Moscow will continue its projects in the High North anyway. So, why not to cooperate with Russia for common benefits? Just for example, high-tech technologies from us in exchange for energy or other resources from Russia

Archimid

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 3511
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 899
  • Likes Given: 206
Re: Let's make business!
« Reply #7 on: August 19, 2018, 05:42:11 PM »
Quote
Today’s high technologies allow us to extract natural resources without any harm to the nature.

You are just pretending the technology exists. The current state of the art will kill our civilization if it expands. We must make a huge concerted effort to create the technologies that allow what you are just imagining right now.

The internal combustion is one such technologies that must be replaced.
I am an energy reservoir seemingly intent on lowering entropy for self preservation.

SteveMDFP

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 2013
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 459
  • Likes Given: 27
Re: Let's make business!
« Reply #8 on: August 20, 2018, 05:55:10 PM »
  Or, for example, where we can find more than 5 thousand jobs? Today’s high technologies allow us to extract natural resources without any harm to the nature. 

Solar and wind make for lots of great employment.  Remember, the fuel here is free, unlike fossil fuels.  The costs are mostly labor, in the end.  And wind turbine maintenance doesn't lead to black lung.

Mr.Far

  • New ice
  • Posts: 19
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 0
  • Likes Given: 1
Re: Let's make business!
« Reply #9 on: August 21, 2018, 04:19:55 PM »
Accusations that Russia and other countries in recent years have come to the Arctic, drilled wells, irrevocably damaged the region’s ecology are nothing more than fictions of people who are unfamiliar with the state of affairs in the region’s industry.  Enterprises of the fuel and energy sector exert a significant impact on the environment indeed. For about 90 % of air emissions, up to 80 % of industrial wastes and almost 15 % of wastewater discharges fall to the share of these factories.  And these figures are not a secret. “Champions’ for the purity of the Arctic use these data in their reports.
Another thing is wrong. Blaming Russia and others for the environmental damage they cause to the Arctic region by oil and gas production, it is often forgotten that the international requirements for the cleanliness of the Arctic projects are so high today that at the design stage of a new production, companies spare no expense for the nature preservation. Champions of the Arctic’s purity always cite these figures as an example.
But even primitive people did some harm to the environment. They cut down trees, burned fires, and killed animals. After all, any human activity causes harm. The question is another – can we take responsibility for our actions? But this is well-known that we can’t escape from the extraction of hydrocarbons. I doubt whether any of those who worry about the Arctic’s nature will agree to live in the caves and give up the creature comforts. You don’t refuse from light and heating, vehicles, and the Internet, do you?
Therefore we should contribute to wider international cooperation in the region both from the ecological and natural resources extraction points of view.
P.S.: And by the way, for those who asked, WE – are not only Europe and the US. WE – are the whole world!

gerontocrat

  • Multi-year ice
  • Posts: 12938
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 4422
  • Likes Given: 34
Re: Let's make business!
« Reply #10 on: August 21, 2018, 05:30:33 PM »
But this is well-known that we can’t escape from the extraction of hydrocarbons. I doubt whether any of those who worry about the Arctic’s nature will agree to live in the caves and give up the creature comforts. You don’t refuse from light and heating, vehicles, and the Internet, do you?
I am not going to get involved in a political debate about who did, is doing, what where and when. But I have quoted Mr Far's statement " this is well-known that we can’t escape from the extraction of hydrocarbons."

That is the question, is it not? You have given your answer as a fact. But it is an opinion, subject to fierce debate. The development of the Arctic's mineral resources is the centre-piece of Russia's short, medium, and long-term economic and social development plan. If it becomes apparent that this is based on false assumptions 140 million people are going to have a really bad time down the track.
"Para a Causa do Povo a Luta Continua!"
"And that's all I'm going to say about that". Forrest Gump
"Damn, I wanted to see what happened next" (Epitaph)

Archimid

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 3511
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 899
  • Likes Given: 206
Re: Let's make business!
« Reply #11 on: August 22, 2018, 04:45:28 AM »
After all, any human activity causes harm.

I disagree. All human activity causes change, like every other animal species. Harm depends on perspective. What is harmful to some is beneficial to others. However, enough harm can be done so that no one benefits.

Changes in CO2 concentration are harming everyone, but many can't detect it yet. It is a local and global priority to transition the world away from fossil fuels, somehow significantly reduce CO2 from food production and somehow remove CO2 from the atmosphere. We probably need to geoengineering the Arctic to buy us time.

Fossil fuels need to be preserved for when CO2 drops below 280 ppm in a few thousand years, unless we learn to control the it.

I am an energy reservoir seemingly intent on lowering entropy for self preservation.