Support the Arctic Sea Ice Forum and Blog

Author Topic: Well done but it's not over.  (Read 4243 times)

etienne

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1699
    • View Profile
    • About energy
  • Liked: 276
  • Likes Given: 12
Well done but it's not over.
« on: September 08, 2018, 07:36:49 AM »
For my t-shirt hobby (it's far away from a business https://schrondweiler.teemill.com/), I was looking for ideas to create a T-shirt about non violence.

I first arrived on the web site of the King Center that have an interesting glossary http://www.thekingcenter.org/glossary-nonviolence where I kept 2 key words :
  • Ahisma, which means more or less non violence (« a » for non and « hisma » for violence)
  • Satyagraha which is best defined by a quote “Satyagraha is literally holding on to Truth and it means, therefore, Truth-force. Truth is soul or spirit. It is, therefore, known as soul-force.” M. K. Gandhi

When googling both words, I followed different links and had the feeling that in Gandhi’s concept, holding on to the truth seems more important than non violence. Non violence would be to be the way to act, but holding the truth is the corner stone that is required if non violence is to be used.

About satyagraha, I found 2 interesting links,

Here are some quotes

Quote
"Gandhi believed in the scientific method of:
  • accumulation and presentation of evidence;
  • review of the logical processes employed for arriving at a conclusion;
  • joint examination of these processes and evidence;
  • replaying that tape by which one has arrived at a conclusion so that one may detect the point where divergence commenced;
  • investigating whether the refusal to see evidence and logic is the result of ego-centric attitudes and perceptions and if it is found that this is what leads to intransigence, then
    divesting oneself of ego-based considerations that have only a limited place within the unalterable paradigm of interdependence that rules humanity;
  • reassuring the “adversary” that the effort is not to deny his needs and interests, while promoting introspection in the adversary through love and the readiness to suffer (voluntary suffering).

In spite of all these efforts on one’s part, one may not be able to dissolve intransigence on the other side. Such a situation where all efforts of persuasion seem to have failed would demand Direct Action."


Quote
"Nonviolent non-cooperation and Civil Disobedience can be effective only if operational conditions are controlled to prevent the outbreak of violence, and loss of control by the leadership of a struggle. Gandhi firmly believed that two antagonistic forces could not work to supplement each other. »

I just wanted to say that it looks like we are doing a good job, that it is important to go forward. I feel that always more people are aware that things have to change. I believe that we are right, that we have to hold to it and that, walking the walk, we are somehow doing a direct action to change the game. Let's continue.

etienne

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1699
    • View Profile
    • About energy
  • Liked: 276
  • Likes Given: 12
Re: Well done but it's not over.
« Reply #1 on: September 08, 2018, 07:40:43 AM »
I forgot to say thiis, my favorite quote on this page http://www.satyagrahafoundation.org/quotes-sources/ is this one :
Quote
“Let no one say that he is a follower of Gandhi . . . You are no followers but fellow students, fellow pilgrims, fellow seekers, fellow workers.”
M. K. Gandhi

Etienne

Neven

  • Administrator
  • First-year ice
  • Posts: 8491
    • View Profile
    • Arctic Sea Ice Blog
  • Liked: 1265
  • Likes Given: 585
Re: Well done but it's not over.
« Reply #2 on: September 08, 2018, 03:56:15 PM »
If you like that kind of quote, you'll probably also like Jiddu Krishnamurti's talks.

I'm planning on reading more on non-violence this winter, after having read Tolstoy's The Kingdom of God is Within You.

We can only change things by changing ourselves.
Il faut comparer, comparer, comparer, et cultiver notre jardin

gerontocrat

  • Multi-year ice
  • Posts: 15810
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 4780
  • Likes Given: 44
Re: Well done but it's not over.
« Reply #3 on: September 08, 2018, 04:30:45 PM »
“Satyagraha is literally holding on to Truth and it means, therefore, Truth-force. Truth is soul or spirit. It is, therefore, known as soul-force.” M. K. Gandhi

... but holding the truth is the corner stone that is required if non violence is to be used.

Here are some quotes

Quote
"Gandhi believed in the scientific method of:
  • accumulation and presentation of evidence;
  • review of the logical processes employed for arriving at a conclusion;
  • joint examination of these processes and evidence;
  • replaying that tape by which one has arrived at a conclusion so that one may detect the point where divergence commenced;
  • investigating whether the refusal to see evidence and logic is the result of ego-centric attitudes and perceptions and if it is found that this is what leads to intransigence, then
    divesting oneself of ego-based considerations that have only a limited place within the unalterable paradigm of interdependence that rules humanity;
  • reassuring the “adversary” that the effort is not to deny his needs and interests, while promoting introspection in the adversary through love and the readiness to suffer (voluntary suffering).

In spite of all these efforts on one’s part, one may not be able to dissolve intransigence on the other side. Such a situation where all efforts of persuasion seem to have failed would demand Direct Action."

Quote
"Nonviolent non-cooperation and Civil Disobedience can be effective only if operational conditions are controlled to prevent the outbreak of violence, and loss of control by the leadership of a struggle. Gandhi firmly believed that two antagonistic forces could not work to supplement each other. »

I just wanted to say that it looks like we are doing a good job, that it is important to go forward. I feel that always more people are aware that things have to change. I believe that we are right, that we have to hold to it and that, walking the walk, we are somehow doing a direct action to change the game. Let's continue.

Gandhi was a lawyer - and a very good one. You can tell that from the way he sets it all out. Hence his demand for good, verifiable data followed by deep analysis and then iteration (= establishing additional data required, rejecting where necessary evidence already acquired, and reviewing the methodology of analysis). All this to be done as many times as necessary before  determining the necessary action required.

In today's world, where a tweet seems all that is required before taking action,  he would have made a damn good analyst, and maybe so good as to be unemployable.

He also had the gift of persuading his people to follow the path of non-violent civil disobedience even when it meant a beating and /or imprisonment at minimum, and death at worst. The worst I ever got was being black-balled by the Asian Development Bank for a while.
"Para a Causa do Povo a Luta Continua!"
"And that's all I'm going to say about that". Forrest Gump
"Damn, I wanted to see what happened next" (Epitaph)

etienne

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1699
    • View Profile
    • About energy
  • Liked: 276
  • Likes Given: 12
Re: Well done but it's not over.
« Reply #4 on: September 08, 2018, 07:46:53 PM »
If you like that kind of quote, you'll probably also like Jiddu Krishnamurti's talks.

I'm planning on reading more on non-violence this winter, after having read Tolstoy's The Kingdom of God is Within You.

We can only change things by changing ourselves.
I never read anything from Krishnamurti, but already heard that it would be very good, I'll have to look for it. I  like very much Tolstoy.

Neven

  • Administrator
  • First-year ice
  • Posts: 8491
    • View Profile
    • Arctic Sea Ice Blog
  • Liked: 1265
  • Likes Given: 585
Re: Well done but it's not over.
« Reply #5 on: September 08, 2018, 07:59:51 PM »
There are many Krishnamurti talks on YouTube (I can recommend his conversations with physicist David Bohm). Here's one on violence:

Il faut comparer, comparer, comparer, et cultiver notre jardin

HapHazard

  • Grease ice
  • Posts: 600
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 228
  • Likes Given: 4446
Re: Well done but it's not over.
« Reply #6 on: September 08, 2018, 09:19:36 PM »
Quote
Civil Disobedience

A must-read & I hold it at a level with Walden; it had a large & direct impact on Ghandi.

etienne

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1699
    • View Profile
    • About energy
  • Liked: 276
  • Likes Given: 12
Re: Well done but it's not over.
« Reply #7 on: September 08, 2018, 11:17:36 PM »
The dissolution speach is very impressive if you have been in contact with the esoterical world and the heritage of the theosophical society...
https://www.jkrishnamurti.org/about-dissolution-speech

etienne

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1699
    • View Profile
    • About energy
  • Liked: 276
  • Likes Given: 12
Re: Well done but it's not over.
« Reply #8 on: October 14, 2022, 05:40:04 PM »
I just achieved the almost full conversion of the lightning at home on LED.

The main issue was in the Kitchen where my wife didn't want anything above 3000K. The needed material is now available, but it must be quite new because all the Kitchen lights in 4000K where on sale. I had the choice between 3000 K or systems way more expensive that allow you to change the color according to your mood.

In the bathroom, the ceiling integrated halogen spotlights have been replaced by a centralized light source in the middle. Since the ceiling is made of wood, I left the spotlights in place because there is no easy way to fill the holes. I couldn't integrate LED spotlights because there was not enough space above the wood. The halogen system that was installed only requires around 2 centimeters space behind the wood. Hanging LED spotlights on the wood would have been complicated because of the hole left by each spotlight.The annoying thing is that I now see much better in the corners and feel I have to rearrange few things.

What is left to upgrade are just some economy bulbs that need to be replaced outside of the house (I didn't change it earlier because the first generation of LED bulbs didn't support freezing temperatures, I've got a trauma) and the room with the heater where the neon tube is on 3 hours a year (two for the maintenance and one when filling the tank, it is still heating oil).

I'm not trying yet to suppress the heating oil, but to reduce the consumption. The house is too old to be compatible with a heat pump, and the other energies like wood pellets don't convince me for central heating. My experience is that waiting for new technologies is more efficient that solutions that are not fully adapted. I hope that heat pump efficiency will improve even more during the next few years so that waiting will bring enough efficiency gain to compensate the extra consumption now.

Neven

  • Administrator
  • First-year ice
  • Posts: 8491
    • View Profile
    • Arctic Sea Ice Blog
  • Liked: 1265
  • Likes Given: 585
Re: Well done but it's not over.
« Reply #9 on: October 14, 2022, 08:34:24 PM »
How much kWh will you save on a yearly basis?
Il faut comparer, comparer, comparer, et cultiver notre jardin

etienne

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1699
    • View Profile
    • About energy
  • Liked: 276
  • Likes Given: 12
Re: Well done but it's not over.
« Reply #10 on: October 14, 2022, 09:14:14 PM »
How much kWh will you save on a yearly basis?
Not so much because what was left was :
2x 20W tubes in the Kitchen, I have now 2x 11 W LED, on around 3 hours de day on a yearly average, that's 20 kWh
4x 40W Halogen, now I have 17W LED, on around 20 minutes a day => around 18 kWh
2x 40W Halogen, now I have 2x2.5 W LED, on around 20 minutes a day => around 9 kWh

So that should be around 50 kWh, maybe more because happens that somebody forgets to turn the lights off. So I would say around 80 kWh. My yearly consumption is around 3000 kWh, so it's about 2.5% of my consumption.

In all the places where the lights are more often on, I first had energy saving bulbs and afterwards LED.


oren

  • First-year ice
  • Posts: 8849
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 3322
  • Likes Given: 3445
Re: Well done but it's not over.
« Reply #11 on: October 14, 2022, 10:21:42 PM »
Nice. Thanks for the update etienne.

Neven

  • Administrator
  • First-year ice
  • Posts: 8491
    • View Profile
    • Arctic Sea Ice Blog
  • Liked: 1265
  • Likes Given: 585
Re: Well done but it's not over.
« Reply #12 on: October 15, 2022, 08:59:02 AM »
So that should be around 50 kWh, maybe more because happens that somebody forgets to turn the lights off. So I would say around 80 kWh. My yearly consumption is around 3000 kWh, so it's about 2.5% of my consumption.

It all adds up.  :)
Il faut comparer, comparer, comparer, et cultiver notre jardin

etienne

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1699
    • View Profile
    • About energy
  • Liked: 276
  • Likes Given: 12
Re: Well done but it's not over.
« Reply #13 on: October 17, 2022, 07:12:37 AM »
I guess I overestimated the savings. I'd bet around 1% of my consumption.