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Archimid

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #3200 on: August 10, 2019, 11:19:50 PM »
Elon Musk does everyday more about CO2 emissions than all of us combined. Real, tangible, actual solutions to the biggest problem we all have in common.  He could have tried to do a million other things and probably succeed, but he chose to accelerate the world's transition to sustainable energy.

 He is a human being. Imperfect, flawed but determined. Long live Elon Musk and godspeed in his ventures.
I am an energy reservoir seemingly intent on lowering entropy for self preservation.

cognitivebias2

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #3201 on: August 11, 2019, 01:03:45 AM »
The pro faction would claim they are reacting to the reoetitive nonsense posted by the anti faction. Both parties could be right. This thread would be far better served with only 10 posts a week. If each person should limit themselves to only posting new stuff about Tesla and not constantly reacting to other posts, things would be much better.

Well said Oren.  However,  stuff like this: "I've rarely seen so much disregard for simple and obvious facts like in this thread."  and this "Good meaning simpletons need someone to cheer for in this bleak time, and this guy claims to be saving the world, so he gets their support." deserve a response...


These posters should scour their posts for inflammatory language.  Maybe while they are it it they can do a quick check.  Are your comments emotionally biased?  Factually correct? Or just nonsense?

I enjoy the Elon business related threads.  Any actual news items are best.  But part of the fun its watching a few very busy posters embarrass themselves. You know who you are.
   


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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #3202 on: August 11, 2019, 01:14:30 AM »
I often think we need a separate thread for those who attack Musk .
With a subheading show us on the doll were the  man touched you.  ;D
Musk is not Tesla. He is seldom mentioned by the pro Tesla faction yet seems to be the overriding obsession of some of those against the company.

philopek

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #3203 on: August 11, 2019, 03:48:11 AM »
I often think we need a separate thread for those who attack Musk .
With a subheading show us on the doll were the  man touched you.  ;D
Musk is not Tesla. He is seldom mentioned by the pro Tesla faction yet seems to be the overriding obsession of some of those against the company.

So telling the truth, naming facts is an attack?

I call this protection, protection of reality and the poor people who will lose their earnings in masses.
We can talk about the product and we can talk about the con-artist who borrows money endlessly in one or another form and of course the entire construct will sooner or later explode into his face.

I normally avoid talking this way but those who don't see this have absolutely no clue what they are talking about, they are the typical fanboys that later complain how mean the world is and how bad capitalism is.

Capital can only exploit the stupid, that's bold but it's how it is.

KiwiGriff

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #3204 on: August 11, 2019, 04:25:37 AM »
Tesla Cars = #1 In US Luxury Car Sales In 2nd Quarter Of 2019

Quote
The Tesla Model 3 absolutely embarrassed the luxury car competition in the United States in the second quarter, as explained and visualized in a CleanTechnica report last night. More broadly, the following report looks at overall luxury car sales and overall luxury auto sales in the US last quarter.

Naturally, Tesla does better when just comparing car sales since that’s the category in which it has a high-volume, mass-market model (the Model 3). Other automakers sell a lot of crossovers and SUVs, whereas Tesla has no crossovers on the market (yet) and only the high-priced Model X SUV.

Looking at the luxury car ranking, Tesla took the title in the second quarter, on the shoulders of the Model 3’s unprecedented domination of its class.
https://cleantechnica.com/2019/08/10/tesla-cars-1-in-us-luxury-car-sales-in-2nd-quarter-of-2019/

TerryM

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #3205 on: August 11, 2019, 07:52:04 AM »
Tesla Cars = #1 In US Luxury Car Sales In 2nd Quarter Of 2019

Quote
The Tesla Model 3 absolutely embarrassed the luxury car competition in the United States in the second quarter, as explained and visualized in a CleanTechnica report last night. More broadly, the following report looks at overall luxury car sales and overall luxury auto sales in the US last quarter.

Naturally, Tesla does better when just comparing car sales since that’s the category in which it has a high-volume, mass-market model (the Model 3). Other automakers sell a lot of crossovers and SUVs, whereas Tesla has no crossovers on the market (yet) and only the high-priced Model X SUV.

Looking at the luxury car ranking, Tesla took the title in the second quarter, on the shoulders of the Model 3’s unprecedented domination of its class.
https://cleantechnica.com/2019/08/10/tesla-cars-1-in-us-luxury-car-sales-in-2nd-quarter-of-2019/


I had no idea that the Model 3 was a luxury sedan!


Somewhere someone presented it as an everyman's car designed to compete with other "mid priced" sedans.
Somewhere someone told me that Model 3 was not a niche product designed for the wealthy, but a mass marketed car that would fit the needs (and pocketbook) of the the infamous Joe Sixpack.


I'd imagine that the Tesla Model 3 also outsells all American made Steamcars - Stanley somehow lost it's way.
Terry

TerryM

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #3206 on: August 11, 2019, 10:03:32 AM »
...
Any idea how many additional kWhs the Teslas will require for the round trip?

How many additional kWh do you suggest I add for each Tesla? - I'll be happy to incorporate whatever figure you suggest.
Terry

MPG and MPGe have already been measured for every car.  Why not just use them?  Is it perhaps because those numbers invalidate your argument?



Was this meant as a response to my offer?


You're a great poster whom I've followed for years, but it's becoming increasingly difficult for me to interact with you when the subject involves EV's, Tesla or anything involving Musk.


I don't try for cheap shots or spewing skewed data. I do try to stay on topic & can be pedantic when I think I'm not understood. - but you know this as we've been reading each other's posts for a long time.


I don't claim that driving a 5 year old VW from Las Vegas to LA and back is cheaper than driving a Tesla.
I don't claim that driving the route in a VW uses less CO2 than driving it in a Tesla - in fact I make the assumption that the Tesla is responsible for zero emissions.


I have found - and I'm quite certain that I've proven that a 5 year old VW doesn't cost much more to drive back and forth than a Tesla, measured in dollars or CO2.
With unlimited funds the Tesla wins hands down. For those that care about money as well as CO2 the decision is more nuanced, and most of us fall in this category.


I believe I've also proven that if you're willing to take two friends along in the Tesla, and you all unplug your homes while you're gone, your emissions will will zero out, and just to reiterate zero is what I've charged to the Tesla side of the ledger.


The VW is more expensive to operate than the Tesla - my point is simply that the difference isn't large, and that it can be offset fairly painlessly.


If I offered to install a gas water heater for $500.
A state of the art solar-thermal system with a very large storage tank for $5,000
or a solar pre-heater for $200


Which would be the "best" system?
It's going to depend on how deep your pockets are, how clean you intend to keep things and how much you're willing to spend to squeeze the last drop of CO2 from an already very clean system.


Our scenario isn't too far different.
A new Model 3 that's almost pure.
A new super high mileage gas squeezer that spews some CO2.
Or a very reasonable 5 year old VW that's not too far away from either of the others?


I've been illustrating the difference between the 1st and 3d options, and pointing out how close together they actually are.


Given the facts people will make their own decisions.
I know what I'll advise my friend to do - but her priorities may not jibe with mine.


Cheers
Terry




blumenkraft

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #3207 on: August 11, 2019, 10:30:02 AM »
the con-artist who borrows money

Everyone borrows money at some point or another. But when he does it, it makes him a conman.

Every billionaire is rich, but when he is rich, that's outrages. Not the billionaire who makes his money off of peoples insulin is painted evil, god forbid.

These kind of critiques on Musk are obviously duplicitous, cheap, and flawed.

If you don't like billionaires, fight the billionaires. If you don't like venture capital, fight for socialism! Attacking one because MSM told you to hate him makes no sense.
“You are not entitled to your opinion. You are entitled to your informed opinion. No one is entitled to be ignorant.”

KiwiGriff

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #3208 on: August 11, 2019, 10:32:31 AM »
It is usually benchmarked against other luxury sedans by the motoring press.

Car and driver call it a compact luxury sedan.
https://www.caranddriver.com/tesla/model-3
Overview
Quote
Although originally intended to be an electric car for the masses, the 2019 Tesla Model 3 is instead more of an all-electric alternative to compact luxury sedans. The promised $35,000 Model 3 is now available only by special order, meaning the least expensive version available to order online starts at $41,100—in the territory of the BMW 3-series and the Mercedes-Benz C-class.
\


Tesla Model 3 Or BMW 3 Series? Which Is The World's Best Sedan?
https://insideevs.com › Tesla › Model 3 › Reviews › Comparisons

Edmunds: Tesla Model 3 Is 'Way More Fun' Than New BMW 3 Series
Edmunds also rate it as a luxury car here.
https://www.edmunds.com/tesla/model-3/

Tesla Model 3 vs. BMW 330i vs. Genesis G70 Comparison - MotorTrend
https://www.motortrend.com/.../tesla/model-3/.../tesla-model-3-vs-bmw-330i-vs-genes...

Feel free to give a non luxury sedan with comparable performance and specifications as even a 3SR+.
No a 1.8t passat is not comparable in performance... not even close.

As to your rather cute comparison in running costs.
Try adding a share of the trillions the USA spends on its oil fired wars ,the health costs of pollution
and the mounting impact of our unfortunate experiment with atmospheric physics.

Oh and Terry petrol is explosive at 14 parts air one part petrol. Exploding such a mixture  is how an Infernal Combustion Engine develops its power. An ICE  car has far more  than a thimble full and they frequently burn very intensely even sitting in parking garages .   

Parking garage fire destroys about 1400 cars in England
https://www.stuff.co.nz/world/europe/100285139/parking-garage-fire-destroys-up-to-1400-cars-in-england



TerryM

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #3209 on: August 11, 2019, 01:44:14 PM »
It is usually benchmarked against other luxury sedans by the motoring press.

Car and driver call it a compact luxury sedan.
https://www.caranddriver.com/tesla/model-3
Overview
Quote
Although originally intended to be an electric car for the masses, the 2019 Tesla Model 3 is instead more of an all-electric alternative to compact luxury sedans. The promised $35,000 Model 3 is now available only by special order, meaning the least expensive version available to order online starts at $41,100—in the territory of the BMW 3-series and the Mercedes-Benz C-class.
\
I wasn't going to bring up Tesla's failure to control costs, but since you did. Should we compare Model 3's sales against only Bently's if Tesla totally loses control of their manufacturing costs?


Tesla Model 3 Or BMW 3 Series? Which Is The World's Best Sedan?
https://insideevs.com › Tesla › Model 3 › Reviews › Comparisons

Edmunds: Tesla Model 3 Is 'Way More Fun' Than New BMW 3 Series
Edmunds also rate it as a luxury car here.
https://www.edmunds.com/tesla/model-3/

Tesla Model 3 vs. BMW 330i vs. Genesis G70 Comparison - MotorTrend
https://www.motortrend.com/.../tesla/model-3/.../tesla-model-3-vs-bmw-330i-vs-genes...

Feel free to give a non luxury sedan with comparable performance and specifications as even a 3SR+.
No a 1.8t passat is not comparable in performance... not even close.?
I don't think it was designed or priced with this in mind. Wherever did you get such a bizarre idea.

As to your rather cute comparison in running costs.
Try adding a share of the trillions the USA spends on its oil fired wars ,the health costs of pollution
and the mounting impact of our unfortunate experiment with atmospheric physics.


Is this somehow related to driving about in a gas sipping "granny car" while the US exports energy?

Oh and Terry petrol is explosive at 14 parts air one part petrol. Exploding such a mixture  is how an Infernal Combustion Engine develops its power. An ICE  car has far more  than a thimble full and they frequently burn very intensely even sitting in parking garages . 


Right. A thimble full of gas leaking from an old hose or a misaligned gasket is what allows a certain EV manufacturer to claim that ICE vehicles suffer from more fires than their vehicles.

Parking garage fire destroys about 1400 cars in England
https://www.stuff.co.nz/world/europe/100285139/parking-garage-fire-destroys-up-to-1400-cars-in-england


Rather than working with quotes I simply bolded my few comments. :-[
Terry

Sigmetnow

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #3210 on: August 11, 2019, 01:56:22 PM »
Can hardly call Tesla a “niche automaker” when it outsells entire lines of small and mid-sized ICE luxury cars in the U.S.! 
https://cleantechnica.com/2019/08/10/tesla-model-3-outsold-bmw-mercedes-audi-lexus-competitors-in-2nd-quarter-in-usa-by-a-landslide/
Graph below.

————
Tesla demand effect:
"Tesla tapped MUSA last year as a national partner to originate leases for the electric vehicle maker. The added volume quickly overwhelmed MUSA's credit line, prompting a shutdown of new business."
https://www.autonews.com/finance-insurance/tesla-leasing-partner-sells-60-stake-tech-company

——-
Tesla is building a major new R&D lab and vehicle testing facility
https://electrek.co/2019/08/08/tesla-rd-lab-vehicle-testing-facility-reliability/

—-
Tesla Superchargers to double in Wawa outlets by the end of 2020
Quote
A recent report has emerged stating that US-based convenience store chain Wawa is looking to double the number of Tesla Superchargers in its outlets by the end of 2020. The update comes amidst Wawa’s ongoing initiatives to support Tesla’s proprietary charging network, which are already deployed in a number of stores across the United States today.
https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-superchargers-to-double-in-wawa-stores-2020/
Commenters mention SC’s at Sheetz, Meijer, and Hy-Vee stores.  And a WaWa in Orlando. (W Sand Lake Rd. N side of big WaWa store and gas station. From the Plugshare photos, often completely full! 8 stalls. “High usage station.”)


—— Tesla anecdotes ——-
Alex Gayer (@alex_gayer) 7/30/19, 7:53 PM
The most common question I get about my @Tesla is "Would you buy it again?" Then a crazy thing happened. I JUST DID! Thanks @elonmusk and @Tesla team!
https://twitter.com/alex_gayer/status/1156352113410269185

< I’m buying a 2nd one for my parents and a 3rd one for my fiance.

—-
A woman was buying another vehicle brand when she asked about OTA updates. Salesperson said “What do you think this is, a Tesla?” So she bought a Model X instead. ;D
Day 32 North American Road Trip in a Tesla -   youtu.be/7eWhID1miXc

—-
Brief video at the link: 
“You got a Tesla!  Damn!”
“You get a discount?”  (No discount.)
“This is too newfangled for me.” (Actually, she’s a bit ahead of the tech! ;) 8))
https://twitter.com/jancooties/status/1160275680212291585
« Last Edit: August 11, 2019, 02:11:19 PM by Sigmetnow »
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

Sigmetnow

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #3211 on: August 11, 2019, 02:07:13 PM »
China, the world’s largest car market, loves Tesla, reveres Elon Musk (he’s treated like a visiting dignitary), provides loans and governmental assistance, and very much wants Tesla to succeed there. 

Tesla Gigafactory 3 sightings suggest that paint shop is under construction
https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-gigafactory-3-paint-shop-under-construction/

——
China doubles size of Shanghai Free-Trade Zone to include Tesla town in drive to open markets
https://www.scmp.com/economy/china-economy/article/3021706/china-doubles-size-shanghai-free-trade-zone-include-tesla
6 august

——
Beijing’s subsidy cut is starting to hurt China’s largest electric car company: BYD
Echo Huang August 7, 2019
Quote
China’s latest electric-car subsidy policy is intended to strengthen the industry by “eliminating the inferior.” But when it comes to “selecting the superior,” things aren’t exactly going to plan.
Since late June, when Beijing began cutting subsidies for electric vehicles by half, on average, the market has slowed. Monthly sales at the country’s largest EV maker, BYD (Quartz membership exclusive), are perhaps the most telling sign of what to expect when nationwide July sales are released later this week or next.
The Shenzhen-based carmaker announced today that it sold 16,567 units in July (pdf), including pure electric and plug-in hybrids. That’s down 38% on the month before and 12% lower than the same period last year.
https://qz.com/1683042/beijings-subsidy-cut-is-starting-to-its-largest-ev-maker-byd/
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DrTskoul

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GoSouthYoungins

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #3213 on: August 11, 2019, 05:25:32 PM »
Elon Musk emits everyday more CO2 emissions than all of us combined. Real, tangible, actual emissions. Never have I seen or heard him talk about trying to change his actions to emit less.

The Musk attitude is that we should not change out lifestyles or sacrifce any of our wants/desires, but instead we should hope that a technological solution can provide us every luxury without any compromise.

I believe this is the mentality of small-minded, weak, and immoral people. This is why I hate fElon Musk and his fanbourgeoisie/cultist zealots.
big time oops

GoSouthYoungins

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #3214 on: August 11, 2019, 05:29:30 PM »
I agree Musk's claim (I don't pay attention, but I've read several times that something like this is Musk's claim) appears to be fraud or something very close to it, but this is the Tesla thread and not the Musk thread, so is OT and probably out of bounds.

I understand the sentiment you are expressing. However, it has previously been discussed that Muskianism is a cult that Tesla is large part of, and that Musky discussions (smelly as they may be) do belong here. I think Neven gave the god-nod of approval to the concept a few months back.
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GoSouthYoungins

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #3215 on: August 11, 2019, 05:34:37 PM »
He could have tried to do a million other things and probably succeed, but he chose to...

...try to get on the cover of Rolling Stone.



If you watch that video, as see a man who wants to save the world (and not a sociopath who wants as much attention as possible), you are a terrible judge of character.
big time oops

GoSouthYoungins

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #3216 on: August 11, 2019, 05:35:50 PM »
China, the world’s largest car market, loves Tesla, reveres Elon Musk (he’s treated like a visiting dignitary), provides loans and governmental assistance, and very much wants Tesla to succeed there. 

Lay off the $420. China is currently in the mood of hating all things American.
big time oops

Sigmetnow

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #3217 on: August 11, 2019, 08:39:34 PM »
You're a great poster whom I've followed for years, but it's becoming increasingly difficult for me to interact with you when the subject involves EV's, Tesla or anything involving Musk.

Let me put it this way:
You undertook a mathematical comparison of an ICE car you owned and are highly biased toward, against EV usage you know next to nothing about (despite your years of reading posts on the forum).  It is thus no surprise that the resulting analysis has some faults. 

I spend more time than you would think healthy ;) learning about EVs, and I’ve seen lots of confusion and downright false information along the way.  Don’t take it personally when I point out something you are bringing over from a lifetime of ICE experience that simply doesn’t fit with EVs today.

For instance, you seemed unaware of these factors about EVs that make driving them different from an ICE car:
- LA to LV is quite a feat for an EV to accomplish on one charge.
- Convenient Tesla Supercharger stops enroute are not a “weird itinerary,” but the norm.  And it is faster, more efficient — and cheaper, if charged by the minute, due to charge rate tapers at higher battery State of Charge — to charge to less than 100%. 
- Larger supercharger stations can be a pleasant, fun place to spend a few extra minutes with other EV drivers — as opposed to dirty, smelly gas stations that one normally departs from as quickly as possible.


It’s fun to play “what if” scenarios.  You may have thought you were being neutral and fair by treating an EV just like an ICE car.  Sorry, but as you’ve seen, it ain’t that easy.  However, experts have done the heavy lifting, and have published ways to fairly compare ICE cars and EVs.  Base your analysis on these and you should have much less pushback!

- MPGe, the most recognized measure of EV energy efficiency and comparison to ICE vehicles:  https://www.fueleconomy.gov/

- Cradle-to-grave, grid-area-specific emissions values, by the Union of Concerned Scientists.  Article: https://blog.ucsusa.org/dave-reichmuth/new-data-show-electric-vehicles-continue-to-get-cleaner
Report:  www.ucsusa.org/EVlifecycle
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #3218 on: August 11, 2019, 09:11:14 PM »
Quote
Vincent (@vincent13031925) 8/11/19, 4:14 AM
August 7, Zhang Jianming, deputy director of the Municipal Econ & Info Committee, visited Tesla Shanghai Gigafactory #China.
#Tesla VP Worldwide Sales @robinren, Tom Zhu & Grace Tao introduced the overall construction progress.
https://twitter.com/vincent13031925/status/1160464508629819393
Photos at the link.

—-
Quote
K10 (@Kristennetten) 8/6/19, 10:50 PM
@realChaoZhou has been witnessing and reporting on the Tesla Gigafactory 3 build, from a dirt start to full build out, in an astonishing 7 months.
I asked him what he has taken away from this very historic experience, here is what he said:
https://twitter.com/kristennetten/status/1158933280143466497
Screen shots of texts, including:
“Do the workers love their work?”
   “Yes, they know it is the biggest auto project ever in Shanghai.”
“Do they all know you?”
   “A lot of [security guards] know me. ;D

—- Back in the U.S.:
Quote
Vincent (@vincent13031925) 8/11/19, 1:29 AM
2020 US Presidential Candidate @AndrewYang talks about his thoughts of @elonmusk #Yang2020
https://twitter.com/vincent13031925/status/1160423035884584963
90-sec video of live comments

—-
Quote
Model 3 VINs (@Model3VINs) 8/11/19, 10:49 AM
#Tesla registered 25,569 new #Model3 VINs. ~48% estimated to be dual motor. ~39% estimated to be International. Highest VIN is 520557. ...
https://twitter.com/model3vins/status/1160563772806914049
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TerryM

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #3219 on: August 12, 2019, 12:17:16 AM »
You're a great poster whom I've followed for years, but it's becoming increasingly difficult for me to interact with you when the subject involves EV's, Tesla or anything involving Musk.

Let me put it this way:
You undertook a mathematical comparison of an ICE car you owned and are highly biased toward, against EV usage you know next to nothing about (despite your years of reading posts on the forum).  It is thus no surprise that the resulting analysis has some faults. 

I spend more time than you would think healthy ;) learning about EVs, and I’ve seen lots of confusion and downright false information along the way.  Don’t take it personally when I point out something you are bringing over from a lifetime of ICE experience that simply doesn’t fit with EVs today.

For instance, you seemed unaware of these factors about EVs that make driving them different from an ICE car:
- LA to LV is quite a feat for an EV to accomplish on one charge.
- Convenient Tesla Supercharger stops enroute are not a “weird itinerary,” but the norm.  And it is faster, more efficient — and cheaper, if charged by the minute, due to charge rate tapers at higher battery State of Charge — to charge to less than 100%. 
- Larger supercharger stations can be a pleasant, fun place to spend a few extra minutes with other EV drivers — as opposed to dirty, smelly gas stations that one normally departs from as quickly as possible.


It’s fun to play “what if” scenarios.  You may have thought you were being neutral and fair by treating an EV just like an ICE car.  Sorry, but as you’ve seen, it ain’t that easy.  However, experts have done the heavy lifting, and have published ways to fairly compare ICE cars and EVs.  Base your analysis on these and you should have much less pushback!

- MPGe, the most recognized measure of EV energy efficiency and comparison to ICE vehicles:  https://www.fueleconomy.gov/

- Cradle-to-grave, grid-area-specific emissions values, by the Union of Concerned Scientists.  Article: https://blog.ucsusa.org/dave-reichmuth/new-data-show-electric-vehicles-continue-to-get-cleaner
Report:  www.ucsusa.org/EVlifecycle


Sig
You're arguing my arguments.


You're claiming that more frequent stops for fuel are preferable to less frequent & much shorter stops.
Do you really want to fight that battle?


You're claiming that the MPGe ratings favor Tesla - while I was giving Tesla a total blank check as far as CO2 emissions go.


I did offer to plug in whatever figure you wished, but it's going to be hard to find a figure of less than the ZERO unless you're arguing that Tesla somehow is removing CO2 from the atmosphere?


You claim that a Tesla can't compare, or be compared with an ICE vehicle.


I claim (among other things) that EV's can compete with and be compared to ICE vehicles.
I further claim  that while a Tesla runs cleaner, and is less expensive per mile, the difference between the two is not as great as it has been portrayed. - even when assuming that the Tesla produces no emissions.

FWIW I do appreciate the features found in my 2015 model Passat:


1,000 km between fill ups.
Extensive, extended, transferable warranty that covers everything but tires and windshield wipers.
Extensive service network, at least throughout Canada.
Automatic keyless entry and ignition.
And the wife likes having coffee in the dealership while they give it another free hand wash. ::)


It may not have the latest styling, but it's twice been mistaken for a Model 3?


Both vehicles bring a certain set of values to the market.
I believe that exploring the similarities and differences could be beneficial to anyone considering a low, or very low emission car.
Terry


Please don't underestimate my knowledge of automechanics, or of things electrical. The combination of the above may be new, but I have some professional experience in both fields.
I do recognize my own biases and actively push against them.


Amazing!
We went through this entire exchange and never once made even an allusion to any data that may have been of help to anyone following the thread.
Should we be rethinking this?
 

Sigmetnow

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #3220 on: August 13, 2019, 02:30:16 AM »
——Euro NCAP tests (continued)
The Tesla tests are the boring ones: “System avoided crash.”  I laughed so hard at the others. :o ;D
Quote
Steve Jobs Ghost (@tesla_truth) 8/12/19, 2:51 AM
Question out there for anyone who has ever walked on or near a road...
Would you rather live in a world where all cars are BMWs, or all cars are Teslas?
https://twitter.com/tesla_truth/status/1160805893329412096
Video at the link.

Video at the link:  see at 42 seconds in: autopilot slows the car and moves over to avoid multiple deer standing by the roadside.
https://twitter.com/mortchad/status/1160784119791415297

Quote
Steve Jobs Ghost (@tesla_truth) 8/12/19, 12:31 AM
Today, a driver on their phone started to drift into my lane
AP immediately swerved to avoid a crash, but I was shocked and disengaged, steering straight off the road
Lane Departure Avoidance corrected my course. Thank you so much @elonmusk @karpathy &AutoPilot team! Life saver
https://twitter.com/tesla_truth/status/1160770701042696193
Video at the link.

Red light warning:
Quote
Josh Thurman (@Thurman_Josh) 8/9/19, 11:12 PM
With a police escort I discovered what happens on #Autopilot when running a red light [for a funeral procession]
https://twitter.com/thurman_josh/status/1160026187776712706
5-sec video

———
Moscow crash update: Car was in driver-assist-only Autopilot (NoA is not available in Russia); it braked before impact. Driver stated that he wasn’t paying attention at the time of the crash and didn’t see the tow truck before the crash; doesn’t blame Autopilot or Tesla for the accident.  He apparently walked (hobbled) away from the car himself.
https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-model-3-fire-explosion-moscow-what-we-know-so-far/

Quote
squawksquare (@squawksquare) 8/12/19, 6:35 AM
Almost 4,000 people die per DAY in an auto accident and yet you rarely hear anything in the media. $TSLA has 1 vehicle that gets into an accident over the weekend and it's global headlines. If you think this company isn't intentionally targeted, you're wrong.
https://twitter.com/squawksquare/status/1160862486331109376

——
Quote
Automotive News (@Automotive_News) 8/12/19, 7:05 AM
PSA, Dongfeng to drop 2 China plants, halve workforce, report says dlvr.it/RB5FC0
https://twitter.com/automotive_news/status/1160869934001340419

——
Quote
Vincent (@vincent13031925) 8/12/19, 12:50 PM
The official Tesla Model 3 introduction event for Taiwan. August 12th, 2019
via @TeslaOwnersTwn @hsumacher
$TSLA #Tesla #Model3 #Taiwan
https://twitter.com/vincent13031925/status/1160956732471779333
1-minute Tesla video at the link.
< Well........the ordering system is crashed now.... could not place order....
<< Many of our group are trying to place order.... and it suppose to work from 00:30 Taiwan time....but until now... no one success

Tesla Gigafactory 3 gets high-profile official visit as bay doors near completion
https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-gigafactory-3-high-profile-visit-bay-doors-complete-video/
« Last Edit: August 13, 2019, 03:03:22 AM by Sigmetnow »
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TerryM

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #3221 on: August 13, 2019, 03:45:17 AM »
<snipped>
The official Tesla Model 3 introduction event for Taiwan. August 12th, 2019
via @TeslaOwnersTwn @hsumacher
$TSLA #Tesla #Model3 #Taiwan
https://twitter.com/vincent13031925/status/1160956732471779333
This may not play well with Tesla's newest landlord.


Why is Musk going out of his way to rub China's face in the mud when so much of Tesla's future depends of how Tesla is perceived by the Chinese government and people?
Terry


SteveMDFP

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #3222 on: August 13, 2019, 04:58:09 AM »
<snipped>
The official Tesla Model 3 introduction event for Taiwan. August 12th, 2019
via @TeslaOwnersTwn @hsumacher
$TSLA #Tesla #Model3 #Taiwan
https://twitter.com/vincent13031925/status/1160956732471779333
This may not play well with Tesla's newest landlord.

I think it's unlikely to be a problem.  Although political relations are strained, economic ties between Taiwan and the mainland are extensive:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross-Strait_relations#Economy

Beijing may see an advantage to having Shanghai-made Teslas sold in Taiwan.

TerryM

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #3223 on: August 13, 2019, 01:26:58 PM »
<snipped>
I think it's unlikely to be a problem.  Although political relations are strained, economic ties between Taiwan and the mainland are extensive:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross-Strait_relations#Economy

Beijing may see an advantage to having Shanghai-made Teslas sold in Taiwan.


Would you concede at least that it's a dangerous move with the present "frothy" situation. Trumps been tearing up treaties like a silverback tears up roots. I don't think anyone knows with certainty what he'll do next.
Xi is very leery of the west after Canada's imprisonment of a high profile Chinese business magnate.
The Hong Kong Umbrella Warriors have been called back for a repeat performance & the US is arming a region that China considers to be an indispensable dissident province.


Tesla's on the line to pay more taxes in China than they ever paid at home. The ground under the new factory has been shown to be very shaky ground.
The Chinese people are very interested in the future of "their" Taiwan.
The Chinese gov. may well be in the hands of "Unscrewable Orientals" with minds and customs unfathomable by western thinkers. :-\


Terry




Sigmetnow

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #3224 on: August 13, 2019, 03:24:44 PM »
Tesla has been in Taiwan for years! 

https://international.thenewslens.com/article/57591

Model 3 sales in Taiwan from cars made at Giga 3 means more glory and more money for China.

The Tesla VP for worldwide sales is Ren Yuxiang (Robin Ren).  I think it’s safe to say he is well aware of, and has great respect for, China’s feelings in the matter, given their close working relationship.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2019, 03:36:24 PM by Sigmetnow »
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #3225 on: August 13, 2019, 06:52:14 PM »
This advert is, apparently, quite real.  An extra $3,000 off the price of an I-PACE if you own a Tesla and are foolish enough want to buy an I-PACE as well.  Also, their sales brochure mentions Tesla three times in large letters.  Only reason to do that is if Tesla is seen as a superior product....

Jaguar has only been selling about 200 I-PACE a month in the U.S., and so it appears they are getting desperate.  But they should be going after ICE owners.  Particularly Jaguar ICE owners.

Quote
Steve Jobs Ghost (@tesla_truth) 8/13/19, 4:15 AM
LOL $3,000 “Tesla conquest” incentive: if you have a Tesla, you get 3k off.

You don’t want Tesla customers. They have high standards. You want gas car buyers. This is why their marketing strategy is failing.

https://twitter.com/tesla_truth/status/1161189567686250497
Image at the link, also in the article below.
- this is a great way to remind your customers about Tesla when they are shopping for a Jaguar

Jaguar I-PACE gets $3K ‘Tesla Conquest’ incentive in recent marketing push
https://www.teslarati.com/jaguar-ipace-tesla-conquest-3k-discount/
« Last Edit: August 13, 2019, 07:00:19 PM by Sigmetnow »
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blumenkraft

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #3226 on: August 13, 2019, 07:10:59 PM »
George Hotz: Comma.ai, OpenPilot, and Autonomous Vehicles

Can't comment on it - way above my pay grade. Just watch it!

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Sigmetnow

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #3227 on: August 13, 2019, 07:17:50 PM »
George Hotz: Comma.ai, OpenPilot, and Autonomous Vehicles

Can't comment on it - way above my pay grade. Just watch it!
...

”Tesla is going to win Level 5, they really are,” said George Hotz. ”Because Tesla is gathering data on a scale that none of them (most level 4 companies) are.”
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #3228 on: August 13, 2019, 07:27:44 PM »
$$$ to Tesla: Fiat-Chrysler CEO says no CO2 fines until 2020, thanks to Tesla pooling deal
Quote
The impending rollout of FCA’s electrified vehicle lineup, compounded with the benefits the automaker receives from pooling its fleet with Tesla’s European fleet, has left Manley confident and optimistic of Fiat Chrysler’s future. Overall, the CEO noted that Fiat Chrysler plans to be compliant without help from Tesla by 2022. During the conference call, Manley stated that by 2022, he believes that “the need for pooling deals would be very, very small.”

Apart from its pooling deal with Tesla in the European region, Fiat Chrysler was also revealed to be one of the companies purchasing federal greenhouse gas credits from the Silicon Valley-based carmaker in the United States. The purchases, which were disclosed in filings to the state of Delaware, showed that both FCA and GM, the maker of the once-noted Tesla Model 3 competitor Chevy Bolt EV, were both buying greenhouse gas credits from Tesla to offset the sales of their internal combustion vehicles in the US market.
https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-pooling-fca-avoids-co2-fines-2020/

====
Love this video clip showing the benefits of having multiple sensors and a computer able to precisely judge the speed of two cars in the next lane, and which alters your car’s speed to fit nicely into the slot between them.  (Also, notice the solid white line early on, which means no lane change there, even if there had been no traffic.)
Quote
Vincent (@vincent13031925) 8/12/19, 2:04 AM
Tesla Navigate on Autopilot changing lanes like a boss to take a [crowded] exit.
The system keep improving after every OTA update.
Via: reddit.com/r/teslamotors/…
https://twitter.com/vincent13031925/status/1160794285509206016
Video clip at the link.
<It almost seemed as if the Tesla knew there was an open space a quarter mile up.

Quote
Kyle Field (@mrkylefield) 8/12/19, 6:43 PM
 This reminds me of the Highway 134 East to 605 south transition @Tesla AutoPilot did for me yesterday.
Took me from the carpool lane over 5 lanes of LA traffic to the exit in under a mile.
No sweat. 8) 8) 8)
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #3229 on: August 13, 2019, 07:56:05 PM »
Car journalist.  Top Gear.  Extra Gear.
Quote
Rory Reid (@MrRoryReid) 8/13/19, 10:13 AM
I’ve just hopped in a Tesla Model 3 and driven it about 200 yards. Had to pull over to tweet this. Hot take: it’s the best car in the world.
https://twitter.com/mrroryreid/status/1161279637449859072
At the link:  Photo of RHD TM3 steering wheel, with London/superchargers on the nav display.
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blumenkraft

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #3230 on: August 13, 2019, 08:30:39 PM »
”Tesla is going to win Level 5, they really are,” said George Hotz. ”Because Tesla is gathering data on a scale that none of them (most level 4 companies) are.”

To be fair, he also corrected Elon-Time there a little. ;)
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #3231 on: August 13, 2019, 09:25:19 PM »
Tesla Gigafactory 3 site escapes flooding amid one of China’s worst typhoons
August 13, 2019
Quote
This past weekend, Tesla’s Gigafactory 3 in China faced what could very well be its first test of endurance, as the yet-to-be-completed electric car production facility caught the rains and winds of Typhoon Lekima, which made landfall between Taiwan and Shanghai on Saturday morning. As could be seen in a recent drone flyover, Gigafactory 3 was able to escape any notable damages, though large sections of its perimeter fence were blown off.

The most recent footage of the Gigafactory 3 complex was shared by Tesla enthusiast and drone operator Wuwa Vision, who conducted a flyover over Tesla’s expansive site after the typhoon. Remarkably, workers in the facility seemed to be operating as usual, both on the general assembly building and in the southwest substation. A number of workers could also be seen seemingly clearing debris around the site.

Weather experts quoted by Chinese news agency Xinhua noted that Typhoon Lekima was among the strongest typhoons to hit the region to date. The typhoon was a monster of a storm, clocking in 187km/h (116mph) winds when it made landfall. A BBC report about the typhoon noted that about one million residents were evacuated, with 250,000 of them coming from Shanghai as of Sunday. On a somber note, the drone operator noted that the death toll from Lekima’s landfall has already reached 44 people so far, and 16 more are still missing across six provinces and cities in China.

Lekima was particularly damaging to China not only because of its winds, but also because of the amount of rain it brought. The heavy rains, for one, triggered massive floods and a landslide in the city of Wenzhou, which is currently responsible for a notable number of fatalities. Videos shared across China on social media during the peak of the storm provided glimpses of Lekima’s landfall, and they are quite frightening, to say the least.

Ultimately, it appears that Gigafactory 3 was able to weather Typhoon Lekima well. Based on the recent flyover, it appears that the site escaped any flooding, despite the location being near the sea and rivers.  ...
https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-gigafactory-3-typhoon-lekima-video
Videos of the factory and the storm at the link.
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Tor Bejnar

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #3232 on: August 13, 2019, 09:39:58 PM »
Quote
Typhoon Lekima, which made landfall between Taiwan and Shanghai on Saturday morning.
??? Taiwan is an island off the coast of mainland China.  Do they mean what they wrote?

A map shows they are approximately 650 km apart, and that a piece of the Chinese coast happens to occur near the midpoint between the two.  And Lekima's landfall did happen between the two.  Well I'll be!
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TerryM

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #3233 on: August 14, 2019, 09:56:08 AM »
Wow what a day!


Tesla's "Official Model 3 Grand Opening in Taiwan"
Was nothing but a cheap publicity flyer because "Tesla has been in Taiwan for years!"


Tesla fired all of their storefront salesmen - again!
'Cause nothing builds company loyalty like being fired twice in one year!


A pro Tesla poster mentions Jaguar & I-Pace 8 times as she explains why Jaguar's mentioning of Tesla 3 times is proof that Jaguar fears Tesla?


The Fiat-Chrysler Tesla partnership will deprive the governments from funding while allowing Fiat-Chrysler to continue to produce and sell vehicles that would otherwise face heavy fines. With progress like this we'll never need to back up.


A Tesla using Navigate Autopilot cuts across 5 lanes of heavy traffic in one mile without being involved in an accident. The driver is ecstatic!


After driving for approx 200 yds a professional journalist tweets that "it's the best in the world" Journalism is dead.


Journalist George Holts posts that the level two Teslas are winning the race to level 5 because they are gathering data on a scale that the level 4 companies are not. Journalism is extinct!


GF3 escaped serious damage from Typhoon Lekima, even though it was within 650 km of landfall and is in a low area near the sea and two rivers - thanks Tor!


I'll try limiting myself to no more than one post/day on this thread, but the spin here was really getting thick. Praise for a BS agreement with Tesla that allows Chrysler to sell their polluting beasts for another few years - how does this advance the cause?


Terry

philopek

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #3234 on: August 14, 2019, 02:26:21 PM »
GERMANY (as predicted)

Electric car registrations July 2019
In the ranks behind the winner's podium Audi's new E-Tron passed the Model 3. Tesla's new registrations are still subject to high fluctuations due to the delivery situation. In the previous month more than twice as many Model 3 were registered for the first time. Nevertheless, the smallest Tesla series to date is the clear brand favorite in Germany, with almost 6,000 vehicles already having a buyer this year, while the combined model S and model X will be exactly 1,010 new registrations from January to July.

Sigmetnow

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #3235 on: August 14, 2019, 04:45:49 PM »
Tesla Model 3 Owner Drives 15,000 Miles For $630
August 12th, 2019
Quote
The owner of a long range, rear wheel drive Tesla Model 3 recently took to Reddit to unpack the actual cost of charging at his home charger and at each Supercharger visited in over 13 months of ownership. He graciously shared the data for each session in a single Google spreadsheet that has all the fun details, for the data curious. Thanks to his eMotorwerks/EnelX JuiceBox 40, he was able to pull down data from each charging session that puts everything into scale.

Right off the top, he shared that he spent an average of $47.90 per month on charging at home and at a number of Tesla’s Supercharging stations. That’s a $100 savings versus what he was paying for gas each month, and a testament to the core efficiency of the Model 3, and electric vehicles in general, when compared to their combustion vehicle counterparts. …
https://cleantechnica.com/2019/08/12/tesla-model-3-owner-drives-15000-miles-for-630/

——-
Can Tesla Autopilot save Us from Bad Driving? -- Ben Sullins - Teslanomics
We are bad drivers. Terrible in fact. But cars are getting safer, and hopefully fully autonomous soon.  Can systems like these actually save us from ourselves?

Regardless of which autonomous driving system you consider, it’s all about the amount of data used to train it.  Tesla gathers more data from its fleet in a week than the rest of the industry does in a year.

People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

Sigmetnow

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #3236 on: August 14, 2019, 05:01:29 PM »
Wow what a day!
...

So your answer about too many posts that are not to your liking is... to post them all again?  ;D

Neven designated this thread for posts links, and to minimize the back-and-forth arguments. 
  “If there are ten things to post every day, then so be it.”
There is a lot of impressive positive news about Tesla nowdays.  Nobody is forcing you to read it; go ahead and dismiss it if you like (preferably off-line).  Tesla Glory to one person may be Tesla Failure to another.  Some find positive or comparative posts worthy of Likes.  Go figure.

Neven wrote:

I agree with this:
Tesla has good sides and bad sides. There was a period of rather well-balanced discussion and most importantly short and to the point discussion here. Links were picked with care and their biases highlighted. Sig used to bring actual Tesla news along with some cheerleading, with a known pink-colored tinge, but certainly not in the amount currently going on this thread.
Either Tesla will hang itself by bad execution and Elon's craziness, or be drowned by market dynamics (competitors, demand, trade wars, carbon taxes or lack thereof and many other factors), or it might succeed. Its success will not mean the world is saved, not by a long shot, but it will probably mean EVs will be more advanced in general, compared to if Tesla fails. Is this important? To some more so, to some less so.

I don't agree with this:
Quote
Does this merit daily updates on the share price? Research papers dug up from one and even two years ago? Clearly biased articles by people who most probably make money by being permanent Tesla negatives? Two per week, maybe. Ten per day, I think not.

Instead of endless discussions, this thread is meant to be used as a repository of propaganda, both by Sigmetnow and by Lurk. Daily updates on the share price is (to me) like daily updates on JAXA SIE numbers. If there are ten things to post every day, then so be it.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2019, 09:17:42 PM by Sigmetnow »
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blumenkraft

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #3237 on: August 14, 2019, 06:39:43 PM »
Journalist George Holts posts that the level two Teslas are winning the race to level 5 because they are gathering data on a scale that the level 4 companies are not. Journalism is extinct!

I think you misunderstood something here.

George Hotz is into computer science genius who builds and hacks stuff, not a journalist. It's the guy in the video i posted above.
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #3238 on: August 14, 2019, 09:52:03 PM »
I had just finished posting this, in the Places Becoming Less Livable thread:
L.A. earthquake early warning app is reworked
https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2019-08-14/earthquake-early-warning-app-shakealertla-released

And I came across this tweet, which is for real.  Teslas might just be the only cars on the planet that can warn you in real time of an approaching meteor!  Awareness and interconnectedness, for updates in circumstances like hurricanes and wildfires, increase Tesla’s desirability (and therefore sales, in case you don’t understand why that is important).  [For example, Tesla increased the range of software-limited models via OTA update during Hurricane Irma, to help people evacuate.]

Quote
David McLeod (@macrockets) 8/14/19, 6:24 AM
Driving home at night with Autopilot engaged.
Suddenly the alarm sounded and the car asked for driver to take control.
My son said “What the ...?”
A second later a meteor passed over in front of us and landed in a paddock.

Has anyone heard of this happening with Autopilot? @Tesla
https://twitter.com/macrockets/status/1161584453296148480
- Yes, this actually happened around 8.30pm last Sunday night. I’ve since found out there was a meteor shower on this night over south eastern Australia. There are some news reports about it.
- Here’s a link to what I experienced a bit of. The meteor I saw was very close though.

https://www.space.com/perseid-meteor-shower-2019-photos.html
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TerryM

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #3239 on: August 14, 2019, 09:53:22 PM »
Journalist George Holts posts that the level two Teslas are winning the race to level 5 because they are gathering data on a scale that the level 4 companies are not. Journalism is extinct!

I think you misunderstood something here.

George Hotz is into computer science genius who builds and hacks stuff, not a journalist. It's the guy in the video i posted above.


My bad :-[


I'd come across the name previously and assumed he was an author/journalist.


Sig
You misunderstood my comment. I've no problem with the # of posts here, rather it's the quality of the posts that sometimes leaves me wondering.


Of all of the threads this particular one seems uniquely susceptible to a high level of promotional literature gets copied and pasted as if it contained the revealed word of a deity. ::)


Terry

blumenkraft

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #3240 on: August 14, 2019, 10:06:29 PM »
My bad :-[

No worries, Terry.

I can't recommend watching the video enough btw. I think he is one of the most intelligent people on the planet right now. Even if you don't agree with him a lot, imho he is inspiring nonetheless.
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oren

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #3241 on: August 14, 2019, 10:09:29 PM »
Sig, I must say I also feel some of the posts are simple cheerleading that don't contribute much. I would suggest that if a post is reposting old news or some "pink spin" just to counter some "anti" post, then just skip it. The antis will remain anti and most everyone who reads this thread has probably seen it already before. Focus on the actual news, including anecdotal ones which I rather like. But try to minimize the "cheerleading" as it immediately brings "anti-cheerleading" or whatever the proper term is.
I sure am glad Lurk went away though. His 10 rambling posts per day or per hour here were intolerable.

Sigmetnow

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #3242 on: August 14, 2019, 10:11:26 PM »
...
Sig
You misunderstood my comment. I've no problem with the # of posts here, rather it's the quality of the posts that sometimes leaves me wondering.

Of all of the threads this particular one seems uniquely susceptible to a high level of promotional literature gets copied and pasted as if it contained the revealed word of a deity. ::)

Terry

Copying and pasting “links and short articles” is what this thread is for.  I happen to believe the signs of technology improving right in front of us is inspiring, fun, and what will lead to Tesla’s ‘glorious triumph.’  And that other manufacturers still struggling to match the capabilities of the 2013 Model S are the the ones lacking quality.  YMMV.


Oren,
Noted.
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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #3243 on: August 14, 2019, 10:30:15 PM »
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I think you misunderstood something here.
I think it is highly probably  that terry misunderstood every thing.....again.

 Wow what a day!

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Tesla's "Official Model 3 Grand Opening in Taiwan"
Was nothing but a cheap publicity flyer because "Tesla has been in Taiwan for years!"
"Official Model 3 Grand Opening in Taiwan.

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Tesla fired all of their storefront salesmen - again!
'Cause nothing builds company loyalty like being fired twice in one year!
Number of "storefront salesmen" employed by Tesla to directly sell cars is zero and always has been. You buy the cars though the online ordering process.

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A pro Tesla poster mentions Jaguar & I-Pace 8 times as she explains why Jaguar's mentioning of Tesla 3 times is proof that Jaguar fears Tesla?
Well it is the point of exposing the ads, mate, or maybe she should explore what jaguar is doing without mentioning them at all in any way.

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The Fiat-Chrysler Tesla partnership will deprive the governments from funding while allowing Fiat-Chrysler to continue to produce and sell vehicles that would otherwise face heavy fines. With progress like this we'll never need to back up.
Fiat pays money to Tesla means Fiat is less competitive and Tesla more so .
That is the intent of the legislation to push the market towards low emissions cars. This method just removes some of the fiscal drag of government from the process.

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A Tesla using Navigate Autopilot cuts across 5 lanes of heavy traffic in one mile without being involved in an accident. The driver is ecstatic!
Ignoring your hyperbole the fact that many drivers find navigating a car across five lines of heavy traffic stressful if not frightening and autopilot does it seamlessly shows the product is improving and is already capable of removing some of the stress of driving in heavy traffic .

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After driving for approx 200 yds a professional journalist tweets that "it's the best in the world" Journalism is dead.
Someone who is employed to rate cars  says it is the best car in the world . Without doubt he went into the test with high expectations as other journalists from the same organisation had already endorsed the cars as exceptional , The fact that the car exceeded these within 200 meters is extremely illustrative of how good the model 3  actually is.
You on the other hand are not an expert and have never driven a model 3 so have nothing besides your ignorance to base your opinion on .

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Journalist George Holts posts without bthat the level two Teslas are winning the race to level 5 because they are gathering data on a scale that the level 4 companies are not. Journalism is extinct!
Already covered.

last  the weather .....


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I'll try limiting myself to no more than one post/day on this thread, but the spin here was really getting thick. Praise for a BS agreement with Tesla that allows Chrysler to sell their polluting beasts for another few years - how does this advance the cause?
Better yet try limiting your self to factual statements based on verifiable knowledge rather than embarrassing your self and clogging up this thread with your biased, ill informed and often illogical ranting.

« Last Edit: August 14, 2019, 10:51:12 PM by KiwiGriff »

blumenkraft

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #3244 on: August 14, 2019, 10:31:09 PM »
A rare occurrence where i disagree with Oren...  :P
“You are not entitled to your opinion. You are entitled to your informed opinion. No one is entitled to be ignorant.”

TerryM

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #3245 on: August 14, 2019, 10:39:43 PM »
I'm expressing my own preferences, not instructing others - andI  accept at least a portion of the blame.


I'd finished off a long reply to a long post of Sig's, then noted that neither one of us had even touched on anything of a factual nature. :-\


I'm concerned for those that may be tempted to invested heavily in Tesla. It's none of my business but I feel some sort of community with the posters here and don't want to see any of them hurt by their their own enthusiasms.


Taking a flyer for a few shares isn't a problem. But on other threads, and from personal observation I've seen people that lost money they really couldn't afford.


Living in Las Vegas for decades didn't do anything to assuage my fears.
Terry

Sigmetnow

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #3246 on: August 15, 2019, 12:30:25 AM »
...
I'm concerned for those that may be tempted to invested heavily in Tesla. It's none of my business but I feel some sort of community with the posters here and don't want to see any of them hurt by their their own enthusiasms.

Terry

ASIF is not an investment advice site.  And I don’t recall anyone suggesting others buy Tesla stock — although they might have mentioned they bought some themselves.  On the other hand, there have been multiple posts stridently proclaiming Tesla is going bankrupt and the stock is “going to zero.”  Even Elon Musk told investors not to buy Tesla shares if they can't stomach volatility.  If folks are enthusiastic and want to invest heavily, that’s their own decision.

Now here’s a link I’ve just been waiting to use :P:
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Nikhil Chaudhary (@NCBirbhan) 8/9/19, 3:21 PM
Fun Fact: People want @Tesla to release new products and vehicles because they want to given them more $.
https://twitter.com/ncbirbhan/status/1159907597371224064
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

Sigmetnow

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #3247 on: August 15, 2019, 12:47:14 AM »
Tesla will succeed because of the growing Tesla community that ardently supports it.

Tesla's Reddit Community Hits 500K Subscribers
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Tesla Motors is the top subreddit for a single vehicle brand, and it actually ranks right behind the Cars subreddit. The subreddit is also 38% larger than the subreddit Autos, which has just over 360,000 subscribers.

The Tesla community is a mix of Tesla owners, shareholders, and fans from all around the world who support what Elon Musk is doing and believe in Tesla’s mission to help us transition to sustainable energy. ...
https://cleantechnica.com/2019/08/13/teslas-reddit-community-hits-500k-subscribers/
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

Sigmetnow

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #3248 on: August 15, 2019, 02:20:00 PM »
Model 3 coming to South Korea. Looks like adequate demand there. :)  People everywhere want (need ;)) to know more.
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Vincent (@vincent13031925) 8/14/19, 11:37 PM
Now big crowd of people are waiting to check out the Tesla Model 3 in South Korea, thanks to the gov incentives, the SR+ is starting from below $27k USD, demand is huge.
$TSLA #Tesla #Model3 #SouthKorea
https://twitter.com/vincent13031925/status/1161844211081072640
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Tae Koan, Ko (@preastro) 8/14/19, 10:30 PM
You have to see this - In South Korea, Once #Model3 opens, so many people want to watch and buy!!!!
https://twitter.com/preastro/status/1161827577863892995
Photo(s) below.

———
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Alex (@alex_avoigt) 8/12/19, 5:39 AM
Spain has some nice [Superchargers]
Father & son looked through HALs window like many other pedestrians so I walked back & let his 6 year old sit in & play [Beach Buggy] - made his day :)
Father "it costs €100k, right?"
People just don't know how affordable a Model 3 is.
https://twitter.com/alex_avoigt/status/1160848265207832576
Photo below.

- Visited a well known Retail company [Germany] 10 days ago for a full day meeting and parked in a corner of the car park.
In the first break they started to discuss my car with me and had all the questions everybody has.
Interest level is high and people need first hand information.
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

TerryM

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #3249 on: August 15, 2019, 02:56:16 PM »
Perhaps the wrong thread, but:


The Audi e-tron becomes the first all electric car to win the IIHS's Top Safety Award


https://www.greencarcongress.com/2019/08/20190814-etron.html


The internet is covering the story fairly well, so I chose the 1st site offered by Duck Duck Go.


The IIHS is a private testing lab for the insurance industry, and since Tesla's April unveiling of their Insurance alternative has yet to make an appearance the Audi may prove to be the least expensive BEV to insure.
Probably good news for all EV owners.

Tesla has gotten close to the top safety pick designation. A Tesla Model S was tested in 2017 and performed well, but fell short of earning the top score due to poor headlights and an “acceptable” score in the small overlap crash test. The IIHS has never tested the Tesla Model X.

From a different article.

Terry