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philopek

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #3300 on: August 18, 2019, 11:25:53 PM »
Expectations expressed by a top manager or board member of a large stock exchange listed enterprise are to be taken as let's say, kind of promise, so far so good, but when it happens dozens of times and in critical moments and if it has an effect on stock prices and if close to all such "expectations" fail to manifest themselves, it's not the same like if just anyone is expressing an opinion that doesn't become true.

As a board-advisor for several startups, some successful, some not, I always tell all the principals to not make any announcements with fixed deadlines as well as none without clearly stating that it are optimistic assumptions/speculations/wishes etc.

and

Yes, things can and more often than not DO go differently than expected but if it happens permanently and under the conditions mentioned above it's grossly negligent at least and
if it happens for the umpteenth time it's fraudulent as per "dolus eventualis"

If a or the principal of a stock listed enterprise is expressing expectations, the term:

"JUST" is not appropriate, there is no such thing as "JUST SAYING" in such a case, every word
is relevant.

Those are all excuses to protect an idol/icon while the root is that people don't really want to protect Elon Musk but Tesla, the manufacturer of their beloved product or kind of product and they are afraid that the product goes down the river jointly with it's principal.

Withing 3 years all major manufacturers will be in full swing into e-mobility and we won't need
Tesla anymore, so what, only thing that remains is that the U.S. Car Manufacturers once more
will have lost a huge advantage (like in the 50-70ies) and be outclassed by Japanese, German, Korean as well as most probably Chinese manufacturers.

oren

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #3301 on: August 19, 2019, 02:43:57 AM »
Within 3 years all major manufacturers will be in full swing into e-mobility and we won't need
Tesla anymore.
I hope you are correct.
So far such forecasts made in the past have not materialized (not that I blame those that made them of fraud or anything).

TerryM

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #3302 on: August 19, 2019, 02:56:41 AM »
Wow, that is likely to kill a small business. Makes me think someone with friends in high places wanted to kill the competition. Otherwise it seems someone thought these products didn't work (without any examples, that seems odd ??? ) and it was in the public interest to stop such sales.
Nailed it 1st time to the plate.
A Political insider when Reagan was governor.
3 county governments, 1st pg. 2nd section in every So. Cal. Paper but the LA Times? ran a half page about what a venial sort I was and how the fearless investigators would try their best to get the money back for any customer who contacted them at xxx-xxxx.
Even the FBI found a reason for getting involved?

A big fish fat cat donor who thought a long haired hippy was dancing on his tail.

Quote
Profitable each quarter, is an expectation for the company not really about the quality of a product and it is required to give company expectations in such reports to shareholders. Longevity of Tesla maybe an issue for purchasers but the statements are aimed at shareholders and purchasers shouldn't rely on things not meant for them. Anyway, proving Musk knew in advance is difficult.
Or Imposible!
Quote
OTOH

Claiming a safety rating of 5.4 on a scale that goes up to 5 seems much more like a 'misrepresentation of an item for sale'.

I would have thought that would be such a misrepresentation that you would particularly want to highlight rather than 'profitable each quarter'.

Maybe Musk has judged that it isn't in the public interest to tackle over egging a high safety rating, they are more likely to go for someone claiming a good safety ranking when it is actually poor.
Ramen!
Terry

GoSouthYoungins

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #3303 on: August 19, 2019, 07:33:12 AM »
Electric trucks have no unsurmountable issues with the technology Tesla has already mastered.

Fuel density 50x worse is a fairly insurmountable issue.

Speaking of which, where are the Tesla Semis. I am yet to see them on the road. When fElon unveiled them 2 years ago and explained how superior they are, it seemed like the transition would be rapid and severe. Turns out it is just another fElon vaporware product.


I wonder if fElon has considered putting solar tiles on a FSD Semi. If the Semi is loosing charge quicker than solar tiles can replenish, maybe they can do a battery swap. If none of that works, I'm sure a hyperloop could transport materials incredibly quickly. If there is no room for the hyperloop, possible the Boring Company could dig a tunnel 10x cheaper and faster than the pros currently do, and the hyperloop could function underground. Of course, none of these crowding issues will matter in 2-4 years when we are living on mars, which is easy.


I'm quite sure that in a decade or two, psychologists will look back and classify Muskianism as a mental disease. 
big time oops

cognitivebias2

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #3304 on: August 19, 2019, 12:58:22 PM »
Electric trucks have no unsurmountable issues with the technology Tesla has already mastered.

Fuel density 50x worse is a fairly insurmountable issue.


 ::) ::) ::) ::)

According to GSY, BEVs are not possible owing to insurmountable issues.

Sigmetnow

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #3305 on: August 19, 2019, 02:28:17 PM »
Vincent (@vincent13031925) 8/14/19, 7:30 PM
Once again, @Tesla impressed me with excellent service & speedy process of the Solar Panels project for my house! The #Tesla #Solar panels are really beautiful, all matte black without any silver bracket vs the traditional ones. Thanks you @elonmusk & $TSLA team! Well done!
https://twitter.com/vincent13031925/status/1161782232878465025
Image at the link.

Vincent (@vincent13031925) 8/14/19, 8:05 PM
And seriously, this is what happened right after Tesla team finished the installation of my #Tesla #Solar panels. My neighbor need to ask for the detail~~ immediately!  ;)
https://twitter.com/vincent13031925/status/1161791041621487617
Image below of message asking about solar panels. “I’m interested.”

——-
Tesla deploys first solar power system in 24 hours after ordering online
https://electrek.co/2019/07/24/tesla-solar-power-system-24-hours-ordering-online/

Tesla Makes Solar Affordable Again With New Monthly Rental Plans
https://cleantechnica.com/2019/08/16/tesla-makes-solar-affordable-again-with-new-monthly-rental-plans/

——
Elon Musk (@elonmusk) 8/18/19, 5:51 AM
With the new lower Tesla pricing, it’s like having a money printer on your roof if you live a state with high electricity costs. Still better to buy, but the rental option makes the economics obvious.
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1163025594180726784
- One click to order solar & save ~$500/year in utility bills with no long-term contract (cancel anytime)
< When’s Tesla Solar going to launch in Europe?
- Next year

—-
Steve Jobs Ghost (@tesla_truth) 8/18/19, 6:31 PM
Imagine a company comes up with a plan to make solar power more affordable and you criticize them for it
https://twitter.com/tesla_truth/status/1163216995933925376
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

Sigmetnow

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #3306 on: August 19, 2019, 02:30:06 PM »
Tesla is the benevolent harbinger of doom for fossil-fueled cars
Quote
The reason I classify Tesla’s credit dealings as benevolent rather than, say, opportunist, is because of the company’s mission from the start. Followers of Elon Musk are well versed (or somewhat versed) on his “Master Plans” that use electric cars to drive energy sustainability. In the end, the transition that FCA and GM are hiccuping their way through was the intention all along. It’s just ironic luck (or hard work, really) that Tesla can be there to guide them and assist them across the bridge. Or through the gates. Or…well, pick your metaphor. Could Tesla be hospice for FCA?
https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-harbinger-of-doom-fossil-fueled-cars
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crandles

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #3307 on: August 19, 2019, 03:20:03 PM »
If you are looking for image, tweet linked above deleted but maybe:

https://twitter.com/vincent13031925/status/1163113827530973190
Quote
In South California, it's absolutely a no brainer to have the Tesla Solar roof no matter you own an EV or not. My 10 yrs loan monthly payment is lower than the regular electric bill.

Also the exclusive new design Tesla Solar panel looks gorgeou!



Vincent is clearly a Tesla fan.

Neven

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #3308 on: August 19, 2019, 03:52:28 PM »
And that exclusively designed cable is beyond gorgeous!  ;D
Il faut comparer, comparer, comparer, et cultiver notre jardin

TerryM

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #3309 on: August 19, 2019, 04:08:04 PM »
And that exclusively designed cable is beyond gorgeous!  ;D


The missing standoff at the peak won't be passed when the inspector makes his apparently belated appearance.
That's a fire trap that will ignite - just a question if time.


BTW


At TSLAQ, it's being reported that "Vincent" is a longtime Tesla employee.
Wouldn't be the first time that shills were thus employed.


Terry
With no financial interest in Tesla.

blumenkraft

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #3310 on: August 19, 2019, 04:17:47 PM »
That's a fire trap that will ignite - just a question if time.

That sounds awfully German, Terry. :P

Refugees welcome

TerryM

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #3311 on: August 19, 2019, 04:27:46 PM »
That's a fire trap that will ignite - just a question if time.

That sounds awfully German, Terry. :P


sorry, I don't get the connection?
Terry

blumenkraft

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #3312 on: August 19, 2019, 04:35:49 PM »
That's a fire trap that will ignite - just a question if time.

That sounds awfully German, Terry. :P


sorry, I don't get the connection?
Terry

Sorry, Terry, should have explained.

The thing is, the German regulations on electric installs are ridiculously strict. When you grow up in Germany, your first holiday in a foreign country will make you wonder why not every single house there is on fire. A friend of mine is an electrician. He is going through the wold seeing fire hazards all around too.
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TerryM

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #3313 on: August 19, 2019, 04:45:07 PM »
<snipped>
sorry, I don't get the connection?
Terry

Sorry, Terry, should have explained.

The thing is, the German regulations on electric installs are ridiculously strict. When you grow up in Germany, your first holiday in a foreign country will make you wonder why not every single house there is on fire. A friend of mine is an electrician. He is going through the wold seeing fire hazards all around too.


Got it!


I've installed some ridiculously large AC/Freezer/Refrigeration systems in a number of different states, and fought/bribed and acquiesced to electrical inspectors and fire marshals in all of them.


Some were spot on, some had no business being in the business, but none of them would sign off on an installation like the one pictured.


If German inspectors are known as being tuff, that's a damn good thing that breeds confidence in German products.


I've barely been out of North America so your humor had passed a mile(kilometers) over my head.
Terry
« Last Edit: August 19, 2019, 04:56:13 PM by TerryM »

blumenkraft

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #3314 on: August 19, 2019, 05:08:54 PM »
If German inspectors are known as being tuff, that's a damn good thing that breeds confidence in German products.

Absolutely correct. Also, strict German regulations have saved a lot of CO2 because there are efficiency regulations for machines. Machines we export all over the world because they are so efficient. It's a beautiful, reinforcing circle. We should do more of this kind of stuff.

Funny this comes up in the Tesla thread since no German carmaker achieved to make a car with the efficiency of a Tesla...
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TerryM

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #3315 on: August 19, 2019, 07:10:35 PM »
If German inspectors are known as being tuff, that's a damn good thing that breeds confidence in German products.

Absolutely correct. Also, strict German regulations have saved a lot of CO2 because there are efficiency regulations for machines. Machines we export all over the world because they are so efficient. It's a beautiful, reinforcing circle. We should do more of this kind of stuff.

Funny this comes up in the Tesla thread since no German carmaker achieved to make a car with the efficiency of a Tesla...
Don't sell your country short.
My aging VW doesn't do poorly when compared to a new Model3 LR, and we're just learning of the EV's need for supplementary fuel stops.
Depending on how you define "efficiency", your countrymen may have passed that milestone some time ago. ::)
Terry

blumenkraft

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #3316 on: August 19, 2019, 07:22:01 PM »

Don't sell your country short.
My aging VW doesn't do poorly when compared to a new Model3 LR, and we're just learning of the EV's need for supplementary fuel stops.
Depending on how you define "efficiency", your countrymen may have passed that milestone some time ago. ::)
Terry

Right, should have said EV there.

No German carmaker achieved to make an EV with the efficiency of a Tesla.

VW seems to be on a good way now, but for i see it, it's too little too late.

I predict massive bailouts throughout the whole car industry.

Here an insider explains why the car industry as a whole has a massive problem. (and this is only the technical side of things, not talking about market forces)

Refugees welcome

TerryM

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #3317 on: August 19, 2019, 07:53:16 PM »
sorry, a waking hour is a chunk of time.


Carmakers may need a bailout, it wouldn't be the first.
They've been paying taxes for a long time, why begrudge them a helping hand when/if they need it.


I've driven VWs on and off for 60 years. Wonder how many thousands of gallons of gasoline that saved? how many tons of CO2


Terry

NeilT

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #3318 on: August 19, 2019, 07:58:44 PM »
Quote
Out of interest I checked the average wage for someone in full time work in Norway. The figure came back at £51,000.

Contrast the UK, which is £28,000.

Hardly surprising that Norway is sucking in so many high priced Tesla's.
The tax advantages for electric cars in Norway are driving the demand. ICE are taxed heavily electric cars exempted from this tax. Fuels are also taxed highly.

I see the MSM is doing another illogical  beat up .
Its "rich people" buying electric cars in Norway.
Well duh.
Its "rich people" who buy most new  cars in all smeging markets every where electric or not.
If you have a lower income  you are more likely to buy a used car.

True, but it is the income differential which is driving that tax advantage to relatively expensive Tesla's and not a BMW i3 or a Nissan Leaf....

When it comes to wider EU sales relative incomes will come to play and Tesla will be at a disadvantage.  Something Tesla has to address.
Being right too soon is socially unacceptable.

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blumenkraft

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #3319 on: August 19, 2019, 08:08:26 PM »
sorry, a waking hour is a chunk of time.

One quote (out of memory) from the video:

"I worked at Ford, it's all politics there. If you have an idea that's good for you and the car, that's a given. If you have an idea that's good for you but bad for the car, then you go for it. If you have an idea good for the car but bad for you, the idea is dead."

"This is how you kill innovation, right?"

"Right!"
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NeilT

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #3320 on: August 19, 2019, 08:09:33 PM »

Once they go bankrupt you shall read and hear what is said for reasons and fraud, lying, misleading, scam etc. will be the terms that fill the newspapers.

Yep and they will be keeping very good company...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_Chapter_11_reorganization

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chrysler_Chapter_11_reorganization

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MG_Rover_Group#Financial_ruin

Not much benefit in searching out more.

As for EV bankruptcies?  China will probably be leading the world in that too.

No point in betting on Tesla going bankrupt any time soon with over $5bn in the bank.
Being right too soon is socially unacceptable.

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TerryM

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #3321 on: August 19, 2019, 08:19:28 PM »
^^
YeaBut


When you need to borrow money to pay the bills, that's not a sign of fiscal health. ::)
When your bank account looks healthy because you borrowed the cash from Visa. Master Charge may begin to worry.
Terry

Sigmetnow

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #3322 on: August 19, 2019, 10:37:54 PM »
...
My aging VW doesn't do poorly when compared to a new Model3 LR...
...

It’s not wise to defend VW.  Their pollution control software “fix” contains yet another pollution cheat.  And every ICE-propelled car with their 80-90% waste of energy loses to an EV in their energy efficiency.  Every one.

Volkswagen’s Dieselgate software fix has another cheat device
https://www.teslarati.com/volkswagen-dieselgate-software-fix-cheat-device/
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TerryM

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #3323 on: August 19, 2019, 11:42:59 PM »
<snipped>
Volkswagen’s Dieselgate software fix has another cheat device
https://www.teslarati.com/volkswagen-dieselgate-software-fix-cheat-device/
Sig
Can you find out when the court made that ruling?

vw cheat device "german court"
"german court" vw software"
Düsseldorf district court vw

The Duck Duck Go Search gives no hits for this at 1 day, 1 week or 1 month
Its possible that this could be buried somewhere, but in day or week searches recent events usually pop up near the top.

The only mention of this I've found is in the Teslarati (pro-tesla)  linked you gave.

I do recall something similar from 6 months to 1 year ago, but that may well have been from Teslarati also.

Thanks
Terry
No financial ties, but I do own a used gasoline burning VW.

GoSouthYoungins

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #3324 on: August 20, 2019, 01:46:03 AM »
Electric trucks have no unsurmountable issues with the technology Tesla has already mastered.

Fuel density 50x worse is a fairly insurmountable issue.


 ::) ::) ::) ::)

According to GSY, BEVs are not possible owing to insurmountable issues.

You said trucks in the context of long range haulers. Small vehicles and battery power work really well. The bigger the load, the worse BEVs function due to the poor energy density of batteries.

The above is clearly true, but if you would rather condense my argument into a total red-herring, fine. This sort of intellectual dishonesty is common in brains in such a state that they are able to succumb to Muskiantardation.
big time oops

oren

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #3325 on: August 20, 2019, 02:06:35 AM »
GSY, do you believe electric buses are possible? With let's say a 450 Kwh batteries and 450 kw charging rate?

Sigmetnow

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #3326 on: August 20, 2019, 02:15:55 AM »
<snipped>
Volkswagen’s Dieselgate software fix has another cheat device
https://www.teslarati.com/volkswagen-dieselgate-software-fix-cheat-device/
Sig
Can you find out when the court made that ruling?[/size]

It’s new.  Looks like the English press hasn’t picked it up.

Article in German, dated Aug 15 2019: https://www.wallstreet-online.de/nachricht/11679204-knaller-urteil-diesel-skandal-vw-software-update-manipuliert

Google translate gives in part:
Quote
With this judgment, a completely new capital in the diesel scandal is pitched. For if the legal opinion of the Düsseldorf court is correct, then the diesel vehicles that have already received the software update continue to travel illegally. This affects both Volkswagen, as well as Audi , Seat and Skoda. Owners of these vehicles can thus claim damages.

And a second aspect is explosive: If the software update is illegal, any discussion has settled for a limitation period of claims for damages. So far, VW had argued that such claims could be barred three years after the discovery of the diesel scandal. But the faulty software update now leads to the statute of limitations starting to run again. Owners of vehicles from the Volkswagen Group (VW, Audi, Seat, Skoda) thus now have significantly better chances to file for damages or the return of their vehicle. This is especially true for cars with the cheat engine EA189, but also for other diesel vehicles.

——
Passat owners who care have long since given up on VW:
Quote
Yazvec (@YAZVEC) 8/19/19, 5:42 PM
I was a VW Passat TDI victim. It was the worst car I ever owned. Before trade in it failed to run below 32 F. Looks like they are sending me another check! It’s replacement has been a dream.
https://twitter.com/yazvec/status/1163566830675533826
At the link:  Nice photo of a black Model 3 by the shore. :)
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cognitivebias2

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #3327 on: August 20, 2019, 03:12:00 AM »
Electric trucks have no unsurmountable issues with the technology Tesla has already mastered.

Fuel density 50x worse is a fairly insurmountable issue.


 ::) ::) ::) ::)

According to GSY, BEVs are not possible owing to insurmountable issues.

You said trucks in the context of long range haulers. Small vehicles and battery power work really well. The bigger the load, the worse BEVs function due to the poor energy density of batteries.

The above is clearly true, but if you would rather condense my argument into a total red-herring, fine. This sort of intellectual dishonesty is common in brains in such a state that they are able to succumb to Muskiantardation.

That was the gist of your argument.  The rest was meaningless babble.  You supported it with more meaningless babble.

I could take it point be point, but whats the point.  GSY, you embarrass yourself constantly.  This is no exception.




TerryM

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #3328 on: August 20, 2019, 04:51:51 AM »
Thanks Sig
Strange that the English language press isn't on it.


I don't know that the gasoline Passat is the best vehicle I've ever owned. It's certainly the stingiest re, fuel. It's reasonably comfortable, reasonable handling, reasonable acceleration, great braking and great gadgets - doors un-lock when you approach, cell phone connects automatically, headlights turn themselves on/off, & dim automatically, wipers apply themselves as needed, individual temp controls, individual seat heaters, GPS, maps, voice control, hands free telephone, sun roof, transferable comprehensive warranty and it looks OK.
Ask me again when it's got a few 100K on it, but it seems as well built as the Toyota & Nissan cars I've had that were good for 350k miles. No rattles, scrapes or other signs of sloppy manufacturing.


Enough about a used VW - this is the Tesla thread.
Terry

Sigmetnow

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #3329 on: August 20, 2019, 03:11:53 PM »
Article quotes the video below:  a new Sandy Munro interview about EVs and Tesla, from submitted questions.  It’s a nice alternative to Sandy’s ‘Autoline After Hours’ discussions. 

‘Tesla Killers’ are struggling to live up to their names
Quote
Given the struggles faced by most new electric vehicle (EV) releases over the last few years, it may be time to put away the phrase ‘Tesla Killer’ in favor of a more realistic label like ‘Tesla Kind-of Competitor.’ With brands like Faraday Future and Fisker Inc. already come and (almost) gone in the same EV arena that Tesla continues to thrive in, each new entrant looks to be the next at-risk for being an ‘also-ran’ in the quest for success in the consumer market.

As more tech knowledge is gained, supply deals are made, and Tesla continues educating potential buyers about the positive realities of electric car ownership, perhaps the ‘Tesla Killer’ label will be bandied about again. In the meantime, however, competitors like the Jaguar I-PACE and the Audi e-tron are left with the cold, hard reality: They’re just not Tesla, and that’s not yet a good thing for shoppers to be thinking about their product right now.

“If a customer is choosing the I-PACE over the comparable Tesla, they are making the conscious decision: I don’t want the Tesla,” said Ed Kim, an analyst at the car-market research and consulting firm AutoPacific, as quoted in an article on Bloomberg about Tesla’s struggling competition. “You really have to be someone who doesn’t like Tesla, who doesn’t want the Tesla product, in order to go for this.” ...
https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-killers-are-struggling-to-live-up-to-their-names/



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GoSouthYoungins

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #3330 on: August 20, 2019, 05:51:53 PM »
Nice tweet here showing a prominent Tesla Bull doing a typical Muskian thing and overstating ICE fuel cost by 1200%.

https://twitter.com/craigdoescher/status/1163831134393970692


Also, new software update for Teslas....nothing but a video game apparently, lol.  FSD currently about 400% overdue, and nothing on the horizon.
big time oops

TerryM

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #3331 on: August 20, 2019, 08:18:51 PM »
Tesla lost another "Senior Corporate Counsel"


Trent Ruark got out in ~3 Months.
Outlasting Dane Butswinkas by a month!


Insiders are privy to inside information, and that information seems too hot to handle for insiders with a deep understanding of the legal system.


Perhaps they were simply aware that:


https://scholarship.law.cornell.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2223&context=facpub


..."when the lawyer learns, or has reason to know, that officers or other agents of the lawyer's corporate client are engaged in conduct that violates the law or their fiduciary duty to the corporation and is likely to result in harm to the corporation, shareholders or other third parties. In each of these situations, and in hundreds of less-publicized frauds, outside law firms settled civil liability actions for substantial and sometimes huge sums, while denying that they had assisted or participated in the fraud."


Terry
With no fiduciary interest in Tesla.


philopek

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #3332 on: August 20, 2019, 10:27:57 PM »
Tesla lost another "Senior Corporate Counsel"


Trent Ruark got out in ~3 Months.
Outlasting Dane Butswinkas by a month!


Insiders are privy to inside information, and that information seems too hot to handle for insiders with a deep understanding of the legal system.


Perhaps they were simply aware that:


https://scholarship.law.cornell.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2223&context=facpub


..."when the lawyer learns, or has reason to know, that officers or other agents of the lawyer's corporate client are engaged in conduct that violates the law or their fiduciary duty to the corporation and is likely to result in harm to the corporation, shareholders or other third parties. In each of these situations, and in hundreds of less-publicized frauds, outside law firms settled civil liability actions for substantial and sometimes huge sums, while denying that they had assisted or participated in the fraud."


Terry
With no fiduciary interest in Tesla.

And no Terry perhaps you can tell me why only 3 people see the few simple facts that count and all others worship a golden calf till lightning and thunder come upon them.

And now, if we consider that this is a forum that should contribute to the probably biggest problem of humankind when it comes to the scale of events we see coming, it explains quite well why there is little hope that humanity comes to terms.

Either they naively hype useless people and events or they deny (not 100% but too many)

This thread is a total eye opener and the value of posts in the main topics of this forum got very much questionable when I see in this thread how blind the very same members are.

cognitivebias2

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #3333 on: August 20, 2019, 10:54:46 PM »
Regardless of what comes next, Tesla has had a good run.     Here are two extremes in the set of possible outcomes:

1) Tesla delivers ever better BEV products in ever greater quantities and becomes the most valuable company in history, far exceeding all prior auto manufacturers.

2) Tesla succumbs to their own inadequacies, flaming out worse than Enron.

It does not really matter...  because of Tesla's ground breaking products, primarily the Model S and now the 3, large amounts of capital has been and will continue to be deployed toward the future of BEVs by pretty much all major auto manufacturers.  No other legacy is required.

Basically, haters gonna hate.  TSLA short interest is ~30% of float.  It's a crowded trade, and doesn't take a great deal of imagination to be in the crowd.


GoSouthYoungins

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #3334 on: August 21, 2019, 01:40:08 AM »
World's dumbest man wants to nuke mars.

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1162218267932446724
big time oops

GoSouthYoungins

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #3335 on: August 21, 2019, 02:30:34 AM »
Can someone update us on how the Giga is doing on being 100% renewable? They will complete this by the end of the year (per fElon).

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1033494277643481089

Sean Quinn, "But electric cars are still built in factories that I thought were just as bad if not worse in CO2 emissions than gas..."

fElon, "This is utterly false. Fossil fuel merchants of doubt have been pushing that bs for years. Tesla Gigafactory will be 100% renewable powered (by Tesla Solar) by end of next year."

-Aug 2018


May I suggest the operative phase here is "utterly false"...
big time oops

cognitivebias2

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #3336 on: August 21, 2019, 01:54:55 PM »
 ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)

So here we go again.  Haters gonna hate.  What is the point GSY?

In the end Elon/Tesla/SpaceX/etc will be judged by what they accomplish.  Not by the short term setbacks.  Not by claims not met. 

In the meantime, there's plenty of actual bad news.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/08/20/walmart-shines-light-on-elon-musks-solarcity-deal-in-tesla-suit.html

philopek

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #3337 on: August 21, 2019, 03:03:17 PM »
::) ::) ::) ::) ::)

So here we go again.  Haters gonna hate.  What is the point GSY?

In the end Elon/Tesla/SpaceX/etc will be judged by what they accomplish.  Not by the short term setbacks.  Not by claims not met. 

In the meantime, there's plenty of actual bad news.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/08/20/walmart-shines-light-on-elon-musks-solarcity-deal-in-tesla-suit.html

What they ultimately accomplish is burning billions, putting a high number of fanboy into financial trouble and to go broke.

The title of the is thread contains the word fail beside the word glory and his point is that they gonna fail and before the commonly agreed upon fail there happen milestones of failure and he simply asked whether one of the suspect next milestones of failure, distraction and money burners is doing well or not.

Probably not, else our dear scamster Elon would had been bragging about it long ago.

There is not hate. To name realistic people haters to hide the fact that you are dreamers is a common strategy. Everyone who tries to tell the truth nowadays is called names across the board.

It's one stronghold of political correctness, a synonym of hypocrisy and lying. Of course, those who don't like RELEVANT facts operate with IRRELEVANT apparent facts and this kind of self-betrayal is very closely related to the scamster's attitude. 

The cheater betrays other and the cheated fanboy has betrayed himself first to be exploited by the scamsters, It's the same people who later gonna fill the news with whining and how disappointed they are.

Worst case is that they blame the realists to bring their god down.

The most difficult  thing to do the day after this thing blows up is to not publicly triumph because it's ethically bad to stump on the already downed.

Dream further.

cognitivebias2

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #3338 on: August 21, 2019, 03:12:40 PM »
The one thing you guys seem unable to assimilate is the actual accomplishments.

A Tesla Roadster is in space.  That's a real thing.  Just one example of course. 

If you present more nuanced viewpoints then your warnings about what may be real issues might carry more weight. 

crandles

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #3339 on: August 21, 2019, 03:30:57 PM »
The one thing you guys seem unable to assimilate is the actual accomplishments.

A Tesla Roadster is in space.  That's a real thing.  Just one example of course. 


Well if you wanted to give an example of

Quote
Of course, those who don't like RELEVANT facts operate with IRRELEVANT apparent facts and this kind of self-betrayal is very closely related to the scamster's attitude.

That seems like a pretty good attempt.
 :(

It looked like there were a few extra panels between Aug 2018 and March 2019 in the pics I found. Almost insignificant and certainly not on target if you expect the panels to be installed linearly with time. But I don't think Elon said they would be, just be installed by end of next year (meaning Dec 2019. We haven't got to Dec 2019 yet. Progress to date means it doesn't look like they will hit that target.

Question is, given Musks aggressive timelines, should a realist be terribly surprised if an aggressive timeline turns out to be a bit aggressive?

Do you agree that the answer is obviously no?

DrTskoul

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #3340 on: August 21, 2019, 03:40:32 PM »
Walmart sues Tesla for negligence after repeated solar system fires

Quote
Walmart Inc on Tuesday sued Tesla Inc, accusing it of “widespread negligence” that led to repeated fires of its solar systems and asking a court to force Tesla to remove solar panels from more than 240 of its U.S. stores.

Solar energy systems installed and maintained by the electric car maker were responsible for fires at seven locations, with dozens showing hazardous problems such as loose wiring and “hot spots” on panels, according to court papers filed in New York State Supreme Court.


cognitivebias2

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #3341 on: August 21, 2019, 03:54:00 PM »
The one thing you guys seem unable to assimilate is the actual accomplishments.

A Tesla Roadster is in space.  That's a real thing.  Just one example of course. 

If you present more nuanced viewpoints then your warnings about what may be real issues might carry more weight.

Quote from: crandles

Of course, those who don't like RELEVANT facts operate with IRRELEVANT apparent facts and this kind of self-betrayal is very closely related to the scamster's attitude.


That seems like a pretty good attempt.
 :(

I think Crandles is saying that the Tesla in space is an example of the irrelevant.  My point being that the companies built and/or controlled by Musk have demonstrated this capacity to both build a legitimate electric sports car and privately launch one into space.  Both and independently significant, therefore relevant.

GoSouthYoungins

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #3342 on: August 21, 2019, 04:30:26 PM »
It turns out everything Musk builds is in fact a flame thrower. The "not-a-flame-thrower", the EVs, and now even the solar panels. Good thing they only install about 10% the number they did a few years ago when they bought bailed out SolarCity a few years ago.
big time oops

Sigmetnow

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #3343 on: August 21, 2019, 04:30:52 PM »
Tesla Gigafactory 3 obtains vital certificate after completing inspection in record time
Quote
The Tesla Gigafactory 3 in China received its first comprehensive acceptance certificate on Monday, following an inspection of the facility by government representatives. The certificate was granted to the electric car maker just three days after it made an application for the inspection, setting a new approval timing record from the local government.

It has only been ten months since Gigafactory 3’s land grant contract was signed, and only seven months since the actual construction of the general assembly building began. This, as noted by local news site The Paper, highlights the Chinese government’s efforts to foster a better business environment in the Shanghai area for innovative companies such as Tesla. ...
https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-gigafactory-3-acceptance-certificate-inspection-record-time/
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GoSouthYoungins

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #3344 on: August 21, 2019, 04:31:48 PM »
I think Crandles is saying that the Tesla in space is an example of the irrelevant.  My point being that the companies built and/or controlled by Musk have demonstrated this capacity to both build a legitimate electric sports car and privately launch one into space.  Both and independently significant, therefore relevant.

A Tesla floating in space is the most pointless thing I could think of.
big time oops

crandles

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #3345 on: August 21, 2019, 04:51:00 PM »
Does a car being in space prove that it is a legitimate electric sports car?

The car being in space is a SpaceX achievement not really relevant to Tesla. Its fun, for usefulness it is no worse than a concrete block mass simulator, potentially inspiring or at least interesting publicity. Mainly is about SpaceX rather than Tesla but not completely impossible for Tesla to get some publicity benefit.

If you wanted to argue that Tesla can / has shown it possible to build 'legitimate electric sports cars' then that is what you should argue. I think effects on other ICE car manufacturers are important achievements.

Sigmetnow

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #3346 on: August 21, 2019, 05:05:36 PM »
Tesla’s opportunities in the auto market remain intact, declares billionaire investor Ron Baron
Quote
While addressing the CNBC hosts, Baron stated that he has not sold any TSLA stock despite the turbulent nature of the company’s stock. Explaining his stance, Baron noted that Tesla is actually in a unique position in the auto industry because it is showing growth at a time when veteran carmakers are not growing. This, according to the billionaire, shows a notable opportunity for Tesla.

“The opportunity here is 90 million cars a year that are sold, and our guy is now going to sell 350-400,000 cars. Right now, they’re able to expand in a time when no one else is expanding in the automobile industry. So they’re able to build now in China with all the learnings that they’ve had in the United States. They’re building for 70% less than it would cost for the same cars to build in the United States and 30% less than it would have cost to build a year ago,” Baron said.

Baron also emphasized that Tesla is not a static target, even when veteran automakers seem to be putting serious efforts into producing and releasing premium electric cars. For Baron, part of this is due to the fact that experienced carmakers such as BMW are entrenched in the internal combustion engine. At a time when the internal combustion engine is being pushed aside by batteries and electric motors, some of these carmakers are dragging their feet in the adoption of compelling EVs, translating to an even bigger opportunity for Tesla.

“The quality of (Tesla’s) cars improve. The distances improve. The opportunity has not shrunk. In fact, the reason they have this opportunity is all these car companies have hundreds of billions of dollars invested in plants that make motors. So their business is making motors. That’s what they do. They make motors. So if your competitive advantage is you make motors better than anyone else in the world, and some guy comes along and says, ‘hey, you know what, all that stuff, all those motors you make, we don’t need them anymore,’ are you gonna drop all the motors that you’re making and go make a battery, (even though) you’re five or ten years behind? Tesla has an opportunity because other people are sort of slow walking,” Baron explained. ...
https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-ron-baron-tsla-opportunities-video/
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TerryM

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #3347 on: August 21, 2019, 05:11:10 PM »
Walmart sues Tesla for negligence after repeated solar system fires

Quote
Walmart Inc on Tuesday sued Tesla Inc, accusing it of “widespread negligence” that led to repeated fires of its solar systems and asking a court to force Tesla to remove solar panels from more than 240 of its U.S. stores.

Solar energy systems installed and maintained by the electric car maker were responsible for fires at seven locations, with dozens showing hazardous problems such as loose wiring and “hot spots” on panels, according to court papers filed in New York State Supreme Court.

I recall Walmart's solar panels being highly publicized when they were being installed. I had no idea that Tesla was the contractor.


Walmart undoubtedly can (still) afford a very serious legal hit team.
Watching 2 of my least favorite corporations engaging in ritual financial Sumo Wrestling should provide hours of (schadenfreudish) entertainment.


Fighting the suit, settling the suit, and bringing the sites back up to code after pulling their panels is going to cost Tesla a pretty penny. Fighting it out in New York, where GF2 has faced negative publicity for some years probably assures a win for Walmart - and/or an expensive settlement against Tesla.


Interesting Times
Terry


https://twitter.com/tslaq
serves up an unending stream of Tesla Damning articles, but they stream by so rapidly that it's impossible to keep up. Interestingly a large number of Musks most dedicated supporters post & try to defend Tesla's positions. Keeps it from being an echo chamber.

cognitivebias2

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #3348 on: August 21, 2019, 05:19:40 PM »
Does a car being in space prove that it is a legitimate electric sports car?

The car being in space is a SpaceX achievement not really relevant to Tesla. Its fun, for usefulness it is no worse than a concrete block mass simulator, potentially inspiring or at least interesting publicity. Mainly is about SpaceX rather than Tesla but not completely impossible for Tesla to get some publicity benefit.

If you wanted to argue that Tesla can / has shown it possible to build 'legitimate electric sports cars' then that is what you should argue. I think effects on other ICE car manufacturers are important achievements.

It's a response to constant attacks on Musk.  The disruption in the auto industry and the space industry are obvious.  I consider the juxtaposition meaningful.  They both speak to the accomplishments, as I alluded to in my post.


oren

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #3349 on: August 21, 2019, 06:18:15 PM »
Philopek, I sense you are very emotional about Tesla. It is my experience that too much emotion causes one to lose objectivity.
To the point, I think (like most things in life) Tesla has good aspects and bad aspects. One shouldn't get entrenched in seeing only one side of the picture.