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crandles

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #50 on: September 17, 2018, 03:24:37 PM »
Quote
Who buys a car in 24 hours?

Remember that Tesla sells their cars online. People that might have considered buying a Tesla for a while may be swayed by the prospect free fuel for the life of the vehicle. A twit like that might be worth a few hundreds, maybe thousands of sales. He has 22 million followers.

I like companies where the CEO's try to sell their products. Obviously, not everyone agrees.

Interesting freudian slip calling it a twit rather than a tweet!

Yes, some thinking about it might complete before deadline. But would more get the chance to complete before deadline if it was announced 2 weeks before and 1 week before and 1 day before rather than just the single one day before tweet. The approach taken is clearly not trying to sell cars. It suggests they are selling well enough than a benefit that was always going to be withdrawn can be withdrawn and they don't need to resort to pressure tactics to get people to sign up.

I prefer companies that don't have to resort to pressure sales tactics, therefore this seems good about Tesla.

Sigmetnow

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #51 on: September 17, 2018, 04:12:37 PM »
Published August 1:  Free supercharging with purchase ends Sept 16.

Tesla will limit free supercharging for orders after September 16th
Quote
Tesla’s referral program was set to finish tonight, but, as they’ve done many times before, instead it got a midnight update extending it for a little while longer.  The program now goes through September 16th instead of July 31st
https://electrek.co/2018/08/01/tesla-adds-free-supercharging-for-model-3-performance-to-referral-program-extends-program-to-september-16/
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GoSouthYoungins

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #52 on: September 17, 2018, 05:59:11 PM »
ya, the program ending has been planned for a while. duh. my point is, when the CEO starts telling clear lies and has a sales strategy that has regressed to one step above spinning a sign on the street corner, the end is nigh.

and it is not like this is isolated. executives who have anything to do with finance are quitting at an alarming rate. executive in general are leaving at a troubling rate. honestly, what are the odds that a revolutionary company in the year before it crosses into true mass production and profitability would have half of its executive leave unless something was truly wrong?

and they take money from people without delivery the product, and they delay in refunding people, and they can't make parts for repairs, and they blame all these problems on other people. their bonds a super junk. they can't raise capital. the need an enormous amount of capital to do half the things they claim are in the pipe line. the charade is about up. 6 months from now, tesla bulls will be like  :o >:( :-X who could have seen this coming? damn shorts ruined everything.

big time oops

Sigmetnow

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #53 on: September 17, 2018, 07:25:31 PM »
Moreover, incumbent auto makers will help “validate and expand the existing market for electric cars” rather than hampering Tesla with their own electric-vehicle launches, the analysts said.

Tesla has ‘no credible competition,’ analyst says
Quote
Tesla Inc. faces no competition at present, and when it does it will be able to hold its own, analysts at Bernstein said in a note Monday.

And all the hand-wringing about potential rivals for its electric cars glosses over Tesla’s greatest long-term competitive advantage: its “unparalleled brand,” they said.

The rise of competitors by traditional auto makers is often at the heart of a bear case for Tesla.

“But let’s make this clear: there is no actual flood of competition coming,” the analysts, led by Toni Sacconaghi, said. “We tallied up every announced electric vehicle arriving in the U.S. between now and 2022, and the results were stark.”  The Model 3, which the analysts expect will account for 70% of Tesla’s revenues within two years, “faces no credible competition whatsoever until 2020,” or until Volvo  launches its all-electric Polestar 2 sedan, they said.


The Model S luxury sedan and the Model X luxury SUV will only face two competitors – the Audi Etron Quattro and the Jaguar I-Pace – up until 2020, the analysts said.

The analysts also demolished a case for General Motors Co.’s Chevy Bolt being a competitor for the Model 3.
“While matching the range and price point of the Model 3, the Bolt arguably remains a lower-end car, without the luxury nameplate, the styling, the performance, or even the electronics offered by Tesla,” they said. …
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/tesla-has-no-credible-competition-analyst-says-2018-09-17
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #54 on: September 17, 2018, 08:31:51 PM »
Tesla has ‘no credible competition,’ analyst says
Maybe, maybe not.
...

Thanks for the refs.  Without question, volume EV production in China will exceed any other country.  However, they will not threaten the market in Europe and the U.S. due to quality and safety concerns.  Even OEMs like GM and Nissan admit their EVs for the China market will not be available elsewhere for some time.  Higher quality EVs from established and other, new automakers are on the way, but won’t be available for a few years yet, as my “no competition” article confirms.  By 2020, Tesla will be making a million EVs a year (including those from its China factory, where demand for Tesla cars is so great that the company could raise its prices to cover the new tariffs — while other companies could not, for fear of losing market share).

The market for EVs is growing fast!  There is plenty of room for all entrants.  But the Tesla brand is years ahead of others, and will remain a highly-desired product for years to come.
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magnamentis

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #55 on: September 17, 2018, 08:56:56 PM »
again:

- expert ?

- analyst ?

- etc. etc. all the same

question:

Qui Bono ?

analyst is not even an official title, everyone can call himself an analyst and those who are commonly know as "analysts" are mostly working for banks and financial institutions.

do i have to say more ? "Qui Bono?" of course all the banks and investors who are
at risk to loose either a lot of money, a dream, or both, do everything to keep public
opinion high until they were able to sell many of their investments before the crash

i'm a bit surprised that such assessments from such people are brought up here as
an argument after the very same people often post directly or indirectly agains that
exact system of a few hyper-wealthy groups and individuals (puppet players) who
are permanently fooling the majority to either gain or keep their various privileges.

it's simply too much work and everyone can look it up himself but my list of even much better
EVs and/or hyprids has grown very large recently.

and yes, i know that a hybrid is not an Full-EV but then the same people who will argue like that after this post are the same who usually count hybrids to the good (better) side of the spectrum.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_electric_cars_currently_available

add those who are in production now but not on sale yet and watch the to be expected quality as well as the background ( history of auto-making and reputation tech-wise)

further not many are saying anything agains tesla CARS but about tesla's management and outlook to survive and there were other car-makers who built famously sophisticated cars but went down the river because of management errors.

tesla will not fail because of the cars they produce, their cars are way good enough, i really like tesla cars, am even a kind of fan so to say, but the question is whether tesla will survive as a company and with that i mean in it's current and independent form and become profitable.

further how many small investors and owners will eventually loose most of their investment after the big players, thanks to such "analysis" LOL will have brought their part into safer heavens.

i say, NO because management sucks and only because a guy had the luck once have started a
business that was at the right time and with all things just ready to go, does not make that person a good manager.

last but not least that once-startup was quickly sold when management got more demanding due to size, customer base and legal obligations.

TerryM

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #56 on: September 17, 2018, 08:59:09 PM »
Elon is sued by "that pedo guy" in two jurisdictions.


https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/ryanmac/cave-rescuer-sues-elon-musk-pedophile

Terry

Neven

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #57 on: September 17, 2018, 09:32:22 PM »
Guys, please, less opinions (or if you absolutely have to, keep it short) and more news/articles on anything related to Tesla glory/failure.

Open a Musk thread for the pedo stuff and smoking weed, for all I care.
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #58 on: September 17, 2018, 09:42:12 PM »
again:

- expert ?

- analyst ?

- etc. etc. all the same
...

Tesla remains a very polarizing company! ;) You will find “expert” and “analyst” opinions claiming the whole range from very negative to very positive.  Some stock analysts switch back and forth between those views — just to generate more trading fees from the churn, I think.  So yes, you can find “analyst” examples pro and con. 

  What more objective analysis is there than to add up published reports of related product production announced for the next few years, and comparing that to Tesla’s?


Consider:

Tesla is no longer a “niche” product.  Back in 2013, bears insisted that after the early demand was filled, Model S sales “will be greatly diminished.”  Yet here we are in 2018 selling over 50k/yr of them. 

https://twitter.com/zdriver4/status/1041749906879176705

Now the same argument is being made against the more affordable Model 3.  You may recall that until a few months ago, Tesla was “anti-selling” the Model 3:  upselling to the Model S because Model 3 could not be made fast enough.  There was also a risk that the less expensive Model 3 would steal sales from the Model S, but has not occurred.  In fact, once the more expensive dual motor TM3 versions became available, they quickly became the top-selling versions of the car.

Quote
While discussing the demand for the Model 3, Tesla’s worldwide head of sales Robin Ren noted that since offering the higher-end versions of the Model 3, the company has started seeing “more orders for the All-Wheel Drive Dual Motor car and performance cars combined than the rear wheel drives.”

Tesla is preparing for what could very well be yet another record quarter for its latest and most disruptive vehicle to date. In an email to employees, Elon Musk noted that the company is “about to have the most amazing quarter in (its) history, building and delivering more than twice as many cars as (it) did last quarter.”
https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-model-3-durability-test-road-simulator/
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GoSouthYoungins

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #59 on: September 17, 2018, 09:47:59 PM »
Guys, please, less opinions (or if you absolutely have to, keep it short) and more news/articles on anything related to Tesla glory/failure.

Open a Musk thread for the pedo stuff and smoking weed, for all I care.

I understand the notion, but the 420/pedo stuff has shown to be able to change the combined global market-cap of EV companies by up to 5%. That HAS to be significant. Also, this is "Tesla glory/failure"....do we really need to further parse this thread. Musk is CEO, Chairman, #1 shareholder, and quite naturally the face of the company. May we fight in peace? (if not, you're the boss, but like PLEASE?)
big time oops

Neven

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #60 on: September 17, 2018, 10:03:29 PM »
Okay, you have point. I take it back. Negative stuff about Musk can go in here as well, as it seems to affect stock prices.  ;D
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #61 on: September 17, 2018, 10:26:09 PM »
Okay, you have point. I take it back. Negative stuff about Musk can go in here as well, as it seems to affect stock prices.  ;D

Just about any FUD affects Tesla stock prices these days, even completely false or misleading items.  Like, “Buyers only given 24 hours notice that free supercharging is going away!” 
“Tesla parking lots are full!” 
“Tesla parking lots are empty!” 
::)

Edit: links

https://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php/topic,2406.msg172972.html#msg172972

https://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php/topic,2406.msg172985.html#msg172985

Edit: (see the replies)
https://twitter.com/urdeep/status/1041141513256726528
« Last Edit: September 17, 2018, 10:52:09 PM by Sigmetnow »
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Neven

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #62 on: September 17, 2018, 10:29:13 PM »
Yup, that's what this thread is for.  ;D
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GoSouthYoungins

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #63 on: September 17, 2018, 10:34:15 PM »

Just about any FUD affects Tesla stock prices these days, even completely false or misleading items.  Like, “Buyers only given 24 hours notice that free supercharging is going away!” 
“Tesla parking lots are full!” 
“Tesla parking lots are empty!” 

::)

Literally no one has said any of these things. Don't let Musk's penchant for deceit and lies rub off on you.

Can you inform me as to what any the completely false items about Tesla being pushed are? I doubt it. Juxtapose that to the list of hundreds of completely false statement Musk has made... ;D
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Neven

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #64 on: September 17, 2018, 10:40:16 PM »
Can you inform me as to what any the completely false items about Tesla being pushed are? I doubt it. Juxtapose that to the list of hundreds of completely false statement Musk has made... ;D

That's what this thread is all about! Give the juxtaposition some time.  ;)
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #65 on: September 17, 2018, 10:41:58 PM »

Just about any FUD affects Tesla stock prices these days, even completely false or misleading items.  Like, “Buyers only given 24 hours notice that free supercharging is going away!” 
“Tesla parking lots are full!” 
“Tesla parking lots are empty!” 

::)

Literally no one has said any of these things. Don't let Musk's penchant for deceit and lies rub off on you.
...

Wow.  Your circle of information must be quite small.  Tesla fans put up with this on a daily basis.

Please see the edits to my post for links.

Here:

Edit: links

https://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php/topic,2406.msg172972.html#msg172972

https://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php/topic,2406.msg172985.html#msg172985

Edit: (see the replies)
https://twitter.com/urdeep/status/1041141513256726528
(PS: Congrats to all the new Model 3 owners near Toronto!)
« Last Edit: September 17, 2018, 10:55:58 PM by Sigmetnow »
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #66 on: September 17, 2018, 11:29:19 PM »
Elon Musk (@elonmusk)
9/17/18, 4:59 PM
Due to some Tesla owners encountering system issues yesterday, the free Supercharging referral program will be extended until tomorrow night
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1041793769106853888
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GoSouthYoungins

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #67 on: September 18, 2018, 12:39:00 AM »
holy cow, thats the best you can do. those links from ASIF in no way corroborate your claims and I don't even comprehend what the twitter link is about.

How about this: HyperChange TV, one of the top Tesla Fanbois youtube channels came out with a video today. The main prettyfanboi had Ross Gerber on as a guest (he is one of the most prominent and outspoken Tesla bulls). The video consists of them driving around feeling cool and talking about nonsense like the classic "why fundamentals don't matter". But the real crux of the whole thing come at 18:00 when Gerber says, "70% of emissions for climate is from cars."

Tesla Bulls have convinced themselves that they are on the side of goodness and the other side is evil, and facts don't matter. It's a very Muskian approach: Total disregard for reality...say whatever it is that bolsters your position...the weak minded will buy it. Really pisses me off.

« Last Edit: September 18, 2018, 01:57:35 AM by GoSouthYoungins »
big time oops

GoSouthYoungins

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #68 on: September 18, 2018, 12:48:04 AM »
Elon Musk (@elonmusk)
9/17/18, 4:59 PM
Due to some Tesla owners encountering system issues yesterday, the free Supercharging referral program will be extended until tomorrow night
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1041793769106853888

ROFL!!!!!!!!!! Blahahaha. When the "ends tonight!!!" marketing gimmick doesn't gin up enough revenue to remain solvent, there is only one option.
big time oops

TerryM

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #69 on: September 18, 2018, 12:50:17 AM »
Okay, you have point. I take it back. Negative stuff about Musk can go in here as well, as it seems to affect stock prices.  ;D


Thanks
I believe Tesla & Musk will rise or fall together.


Terry

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #70 on: September 18, 2018, 01:06:23 AM »
Saw my first Tesla ~3 weeks ago. I'm about 40 min. West of Pearson Airport so I'll keep my eyes open and report what I've seen.
I still haven't checked the charger up the road to see if it's for Teslas, but I'll try to swing by there this evening.
Terry

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #71 on: September 18, 2018, 06:48:46 AM »
Coverdrive on Seeking Alpha has an estimate up for a $236M GAAP-adjusted loss for Q3. His estimates have been pretty accurate. FT is around -$220M under a more rosy scenario. At any rate, we're still talking about a high rate of cash burn and far from being profitable.

This shouldn't be surprising given the poor gross margins they're getting over the past two years or so.

oren

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #72 on: September 18, 2018, 10:30:14 AM »
Anyone knows of a link to the full article?

Archimid

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #73 on: September 18, 2018, 12:47:57 PM »
Betting Against Tesla: Short-Sellers Make Their Case

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/17/business/tesla-stock-shorts.html

4 Reasons they give

Quote
1. The stock is overvalued
2. The company is burning through cash
3. Elon Musk does not inspire confidence
4. There are questions about demand for Tesla's cars.
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Archimid

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #74 on: September 18, 2018, 01:17:07 PM »
My rebuttal:

1. The stock is overvalued

If they didn't think that the stock was overvalued they wouldn't be shorting Tesla. This is very subjective because the future value of Tesla is reflected on the stock price. We all know how the future is a bit hard to predict.

2. The company is burning through cash

I think that building two factories, thousands of stores worldwide, a super charger network and designing a brand new electric car is a very good investment of cash. One that will pay off in many ways.

3. Elon Musk does not inspire confidence

I readily admit that the delays in Model 3 production are costly and dangerous for the company.  However, there is very good progress. Considering the difficulty of the task, the risk of the task and the possible rewards I feel very hopeful about Elon and Tesla. I do wish that he delegated more. A COO would make Tesla stronger. A President of Automotive was a good start.

4. There are questions about demand for Tesla's cars.

There are questions? There are always questions. In the case of the demand for Tesla the numbers speak for themselves. Refer to Sigmetnow Tesla comparison charts for the best evidence for demand... sales.

Then check reviews of Tesla cars. People that have them love them. The competition is indeed coming, partly because Tesla EV's are gnawing at their sales, but it is still a year away.

In the short-medium term it helps Tesla if automotive leaders of the world follow the path Tesla trail blazed for EV's.

I think the biggest competition for Tesla will be the lower end vehicle markets. I think Nissan will dominate that segment.
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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #75 on: September 18, 2018, 04:09:26 PM »
Elon Musk sued by British rescue diver he called a ‘pedo’ and ‘rapist’ on Twitter
 17 Sep, 2018

For a lousy 75,000 bucks. He was really dumb to sue in the USA, unless he is in a "no win, no fee contract with his lawyer.

It would not surprise me if California says Musk is "Not Guilty, and the Old Bailey says "Guilty". See below (in the UK the defendant has to prove that what he said was correct - malicious intent merely adds to the damages paid, does not influence the guilty or not guilty verdict)

From The BBC

Mr Unsworth filed the suit in California. A separate suit will follow in London, the filing says.

How defamation works in the US
by Clive Coleman, BBC legal correspondent
Quote
The first amendment of the United States Constitution which protects free speech makes defamation a challenging legal action to bring.

A plaintiff (the person bringing the case) has to prove the statement made about them is false and that it has caused them material harm.

However, the toughest hurdle is that if the person bringing the case is regarded as a public figure - and 'public figure' is given a pretty wide interpretation - it has to be proved that the defendant acted maliciously.

In other words that the person making the statement knew it to be false and went on to make it.

The market gives diddly squat about it. The TESLA share price has been quietly picking up towards £300, probably as they are flogging more wheels and other stuff. The market has not punished TESLA for making a pig's ear of their vehicle delivery system.

Will Musk ever learn to delegate? About as likely as Trump to moderate his behaviour, methinks.
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #76 on: September 18, 2018, 05:19:35 PM »
ValueAnalyst responds to the skeptics quoted in the NYT article:

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1041865556595560448.html
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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #77 on: September 18, 2018, 06:06:41 PM »
Watch the market!

$20.00 n 20 min. as the DOJ announces criminal probe re. Musk's tweets/statements.

https://twitter.com/business?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor

I generally ignore the market, but this was a stiff jolt.
Terry

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #78 on: September 18, 2018, 06:54:57 PM »
Ellec (@ellec_uk) 9/18/18, 12:30 PM
Stock above $300 cue a big orchestrated FUD attack and a massive sell order right at the momemt the news broke. $tsla
https://twitter.com/ellec_uk/status/1042088406313050117

Ross Gerber (@GerberKawasaki) 9/18/18, 12:12 PM
The government will try to prove Elon never wanted to go private and it was a fraud. That seems like a very steep hill to climb. I get SEC and a fine. But the Saudis just raised $11 bil in a bond. Bought 5% of Tesla and Lucid. Blah blah. #tesla $tsla
https://twitter.com/gerberkawasaki/status/1042084063878701056

ValueAnalyst (@ValueAnalyst1)
9/18/18, 11:22 AM
50 days until $TSLA shorts wake up ⏳
https://twitter.com/valueanalyst1/status/1042071356618301440


Edit:  Tesla’s statement (my emphasis) — confirms it’s just FUD, timed to shock the market:
Last month, following Elon’s announcement that he was considering taking the company private, Tesla received a voluntary request for documents from the DOJ and has been cooperative in responding to it. We have not received a subpoena, a request for testimony, or any other formal process. We respect the DOJ’s desire to get information about this and believe that the matter should be quickly resolved as they review the information they have received.”
https://electrek.co/2018/09/18/tesla-tsla-now-reportedly-under-a-criminal-probe-over-elon-musks-take-private-comments/
« Last Edit: September 18, 2018, 07:32:45 PM by Sigmetnow »
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #79 on: September 18, 2018, 07:05:07 PM »
Quote
UBS says the model 3 can’t be profitable at 35k and $TSLAQ rejoices, sings the praises of UBS.

Audi unveils the e-tron and is loved so much by bears that there are marriage proposals

Now UBS says the Audi only shows how far behind other car makers are from #Tesla
https://twitter.com/28delayslater/status/1042034374844272641

UBS says Audi's new electric car shows industry has a long way to go to catch Tesla
https://www.msn.com/en-us/finance/companies/ubs-says-audis-new-electric-car-shows-industry-has-a-long-way-to-go-to-catch-tesla/ar-BBNuRv8

Their statement of “no demand” is laughable in light of the tens of thousands of sales just last month in North America — before opening to global sales, advertising, or even availability of the $35k version of the car!
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gerontocrat

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #80 on: September 18, 2018, 11:36:59 PM »
Whoops:- The "Musk Effect" not always +ve. DOJ enquiry started.
The shares dropped from just over 300 to just under 280 and then came back to 285.
Much more of this and they will dump him as Chairman/ CEO.

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/sep/18/tesla-investigation-elon-musk-tweets-reports

Tesla under investigation by US justice department after Elon Musk tweets
Shares drop 7% on news DoJ has begun criminal inquiry
Musk tweeted ‘funding secured’ over take-private plan

Quote
More bad news is piling up for Elon Musk, the billionaire founder of the electronic car company Tesla. Tesla is now under investigation by the US justice department over statements the company and Musk made last month.

Bloomberg first reported the DoJ has opened a criminal inquiry into statements Musk made about plans to take the troubled car company private. Tesla’s shares dropped over 7% on the news, which was confirmed by the company.

Tesla’s value has fallen by almost a third since his initial tweets, wiping nearly $18bn off the value of the company.

The investigation comes on top of a civil investigation by the Securities and Exchange Commission and lawsuits from investors.

Tesla said in a statement: “Last month, following Elon’s announcement that he was considering taking the company private, Tesla received a voluntary request for documents from the DoJ and has been cooperative in responding to it.

“We have not received a subpoena, a request for testimony, or any other formal process. We respect the DoJ’s desire to get information about this and believe that the matter should be quickly resolved as they review the information they have received.”
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GoSouthYoungins

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #81 on: September 19, 2018, 08:14:40 AM »


Ross Gerber (@GerberKawasaki) 9/18/18, 12:12 PM
The government will try to prove Elon never wanted to go private and it was a fraud. That seems like a very steep hill to climb. I get SEC and a fine. But the Saudis just raised $11 bil in a bond. Bought 5% of Tesla and Lucid. Blah blah. #tesla $tsla
https://twitter.com/gerberkawasaki/status/1042084063878701056

ValueAnalyst (@ValueAnalyst1)
9/18/18, 11:22 AM
50 days until $TSLA shorts wake up ⏳
https://twitter.com/valueanalyst1/status/1042071356618301440

How can you quote a Ross Gerber tweet?!? I just posted a video and gave the time of him claiming that 70% of emissions come from cars. This is so off it is insane. He hasn’t corrected himself. Tesla bulls are depraved and fit any information to fit their pro-Tesla view. You ppl need help. This is a mental disorder we are dealing with. I understand, we face really tough challenges. It is plenty to drive any person nuts. Reject the sweet siren call of absurd solutions. Or at least buy some put options and you’ll be able to dry your tears with dollars.
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Neven

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #82 on: September 19, 2018, 08:27:47 AM »
You ppl need help. This is a mental disorder we are dealing with.

Nope, it's called human nature. You have the same mental disorder, but are not aware of it. Stop projecting.
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GoSouthYoungins

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #83 on: September 19, 2018, 09:14:12 AM »
You ppl need help. This is a mental disorder we are dealing with.

Nope, it's called human nature. You have the same mental disorder, but are not aware of it. Stop projecting.

You ppl need help. This is a mental disorder we are dealing with.

Nope, it's called human nature. You have the same mental disorder, but are not aware of it. Stop projecting.

You are kinda right. We are all super similar. But we develope vastly different habits. That being said, I don’t go on public forums are accidentally shill for nonsense which is easily discernible. Will you say “sorry for the sceptisism, you were super right” if Tesla files in the next 6 months.  Maybe; you seem responable... but many are insane zealots who won’t ever change. Yet, if I am wrong and Tesla becomes a huge and sucessful/revolutionary car manufacturers, I will let everyone know how humbled I am and how wrong I was outrageously wrong. And I will be genuinely happy. And I’ll be more optimistic about many more things.
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Neven

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #84 on: September 19, 2018, 11:46:08 AM »
Will you say “sorry for the sceptisism, you were super right” if Tesla files in the next 6 months.  Maybe; you seem responable...

I've never said you're wrong, only that your style antagonises and that you don't seem to apply the same amount of scepticism to anti articles that you do to pro articles. I have no idea what's going to happen to Tesla, but I hope they make it for a while longer (until the EV revolution truly is irreversible).

Quote
Yet, if I am wrong and Tesla becomes a huge and sucessful/revolutionary car manufacturers, I will let everyone know how humbled I am and how wrong I was outrageously wrong. And I will be genuinely happy. And I’ll be more optimistic about many more things.

Let's hope for the best then.  ;D
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #85 on: September 19, 2018, 03:49:39 PM »
“How can you quote a Ross Gerber tweet?!? I just posted a video and gave the time of him claiming that 70% of emissions come from cars.“

As the very large type in the first few seconds of the video clearly state, this is an unedited video of a chat.  Gerber may have meant 70% of the local pollution comes from cars — since he was, you know, driving a car, on local streets, talking about cars — so the statement could certainly be accurate.

It’s ridiculous to think no one of good standing ever said anything incorrect or incomplete while chatting on YouTube. ::)  Or that one unclear statement renders a respected person unbelievable.  And yes, Gerber is well known, and well respected.  Just not by you.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2018, 03:59:29 PM by Sigmetnow »
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GoSouthYoungins

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #86 on: September 19, 2018, 04:34:55 PM »
“How can you quote a Ross Gerber tweet?!? I just posted a video and gave the time of him claiming that 70% of emissions come from cars.“

As the very large type in the first few seconds of the video clearly state, this is an unedited video of a chat.  Gerber may have meant 70% of the local pollution comes from cars — since he was, you know, driving a car, on local streets, talking about cars — so the statement could certainly be accurate.

It’s ridiculous to think no one of good standing ever said anything incorrect or incomplete while chatting on YouTube. ::)  Or that one unclear statement renders a respected person unbelievable.  And yes, Gerber is well known, and well respected.  Just not by you.

He specifies, “FOR THE CLIMATE”.

If gerber cared one iota about the truth, I promise he could have hyperchange man add a note in the description or he could post on a comment where he corrects himself. The obvious reality is that he doesn’t care if he spreads incorrect information, as long as it is pro-Tesla incorrect information.

Does it not worry you that this guy is one of the top Tesla bulls??? There is no discussion of how it’s all actually going to happen, just a smug chat about how awesome it will be when Tesla is selling millions of vehicles annually in the next few years with the model Y and the semi and the roadster....that Tesla lacks the money necessary for the cap ex to build these models....who cares, this car is “green” and sexy...I get to look cool.

I wrote this in the most antagonistic way I could, as I do, but then edited it to be as plain as I could stomach. Maybe neven is right and I’ll come to realize it. Right now though, I feel sick with boredom. :-\ ;) :-\

big time oops

Sigmetnow

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #87 on: September 19, 2018, 05:04:59 PM »
If I’m going to cherry-pick one brief comment to be excited about, out of an hour-long unedited discussion, I prefer to pick a positive one.  So there you go. ;D

P.S.  Climate is local, too. ;)

P.P.S.:  Thanks for the self-moderation.


EDIT: more of the words surrounding the “70%” quote from the Gerber video.  “Cars” would seem to be referring to “all road transport” in that sentence.  And road transport is responsible for 70% of transport emissions.
—-
Quote
“We were discussing sustainable transport and energy. …
70% of emissions for climate is from cars.…
Tesla’s mission is not just about making money.  It’s about creating sustainable transport. It’s about making sure we’ll be here in 30, 40, 50 years.  A lot of people think that’s alarmist, but if you’re in South Carolina right now [suffering from hurricane Florence], you probably don’t think that’s alarmist.  That’s why we need to switch to an electric infrastructure and we need to have many forms of electric transportation, even like Birds [e-scooters] and other forms of electric transport.  But in the end, this is just imperative.”

“Within this [Transport] sector, road transport is by far the biggest emitter accounting for more than 70% of all GHG emissions from transport in 2014.”
https://ec.europa.eu/clima/policies/transport_en
« Last Edit: September 19, 2018, 07:57:53 PM by Sigmetnow »
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #88 on: September 19, 2018, 05:34:28 PM »
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

Sigmetnow

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #89 on: September 19, 2018, 05:35:30 PM »
And for… balance? ;)  A short update:

+4 million shares in less than 1 month!

Ihor Dusaniwsky (@ihors3)
9/19/18, 10:22 AM
$TSLA short interest $10.07, 35.33 million shares short, 27.71% of float. Shares shorted are up 824k over the past week & am seeing/hearing of more short activity this morning.
https://twitter.com/ihors3/status/1042418678426476544
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #90 on: September 19, 2018, 08:21:15 PM »
The bad news: Now that Tesla is finally out of “production hell,” it has entered delivery hell.
The good news:  Delivery hell is much easier to get out of.

Tesla Model 3 Delivery Push In Full Ramp Mode
https://insideevs.com/tesla-model-3-delivery-ramp/amp/

Henry (@rocketL49)
9/18/18, 9:41 PM
Vancouver #Tesla $tsla is delivering Model 3s until 10pm everyday. Demand is insane.
https://twitter.com/rocketl49/status/1042227026856296448
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NeilT

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #91 on: September 19, 2018, 08:49:26 PM »
Fact is no one knows. And people's opinions here (pro or con) really won't decide that. It's fun "watching" from the stands as the game is being played trying to guess who is going to win. Not everyone, even here, cares who wins. :)

That is very true.  Nobody does know.  Neither those who say it's going down nor those who say it is going to go profitable.

We'll have to wait for the Q3 financial results to get a good handle on that one.
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NeilT

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #92 on: September 20, 2018, 12:42:09 PM »
The bad news: Now that Tesla is finally out of “production hell,” it has entered delivery hell.
The good news:  Delivery hell is much easier to get out of.

Both those statements tell a story which is very different from the headline.

It tells me that Tesla is still in the process of ramping up the full capability to deliver.  Supply chain logistics is a very demanding discipline and the very fact that Tesla did not ramp up the delivery capability, at the same time as the production capability, speaks to the immaturity of the company.

This is not unusual in a start-up company.  However, Tesla, now being analysed as a fully mature major manufacturer (which it is not, yet), will be punished for that lack of maturity.

The problem is going to be that Tesla cannot just keep on fixing problems as they occur.  It has to start anticipating the problems and creating the resolution to coincide with the problem.  That is how mature companies are able to operate effectively in the “Just In Time” manner of the modern supply chain environment.

Even mature companies do not get it right all the time, but they tend to avoid the very obvious mistakes that Tesla is making right now.

Tesla set up a manufacturing capability of ~10,000 vehicles per week (designed maximum capacity).  Only the problems with that actual capacity have helped Tesla avoid the delivery bottlenecks.  It is clear that Tesla did not build a scalable delivery capacity which can ramp up or down depending on production output.  Something which is old hat to the incumbent car manufacturers.

The good outcome of this next problem is that Tesla will produce a first class solution to the problem.  The bad part is that Tesla cannot, for much longer, keep leading with their chin, on the end to end supply chain.  Otherwise they will simultaneously hit two or three “problems” which are impossible to fix in a short time frame.  A start-up like tesla can be expected to have one of these problems at a time.  Two or three, with a long resolution time, could break the company.

This is where the stewardship of Musk is a problem.  He is a problem solver and not a planner.  I recognise this very well as much of my life has been in problem solving, I’m much less happy planning but I do it when I have to.  The problem with Musk is that he has not, yet, realised that the problem he now needs to solve is the end to end planning of the long term operation of Tesla.

This is where his experience with SpaceX is not helping.  They are at the opposite ends of the spectrum.  One has extreme challenges to even one delivery; but carries very high compensation for that delivery.   It is very low volume although each delivery has a very high number of components. The other has extremely high volume with low compensation for each delivery.  Totally different disciplines.  Musk will learn, but he needs to learn it all and very rapidly.  In that, his choice of executives from the existing motor industry will help, but he has to listen.  Not Musk’s greatest strength.
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #93 on: September 20, 2018, 01:50:05 PM »
“This is just nasty — what Tesla and its wild young Model 3 are doing to the old guard. Look at the charts [here] and tell me if this isn’t wicked cruel.”
https://cleantechnica.com/2018/09/16/10-nasty-tesla-model-3-charts/


The BMW 3 series is a direct competitor to the Model 3.  It’s the second most-traded-in car for the Model 3, after the Toyota Prius.  Since the Model 3 was announced in 2016, BMW 3 series sales in the US have collapsed.

Quote
Actually, as I reported a couple of weeks ago, Tesla sold more cars than BMW in the US in August (cars only, not including SUVs/CUVs). That’s shocking — even to me. Ask 100 people on the street whether BMW or Tesla sold more cars in the US last month and I’d put some money on none of them choosing Tesla. That’s not just funny, though. It’s the beginning of a wave. What happens when those people do begin to learn that Tesla is outselling BMW in the car aisle?
https://cleantechnica.com/2018/09/20/us-bmw-3-series-sales-have-collapsed/
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #94 on: September 20, 2018, 02:09:13 PM »
ValueAnalyst (@ValueAnalyst1) 9/19/18, 3:07 PM
Bloomberg's hit piece lasted 36 hours
https://twitter.com/valueanalyst1/status/1042490272662388739

Alex Feldman (@aija_tweet) 9/18/18, 3:15 PM
@GerberKawasaki Curious how Bloomberg waited till TSLA rallied back to 300 to post this nonsense knowing it will have a material impact on the stock. I think the wrong party is being investigated for stock manipulation.
https://twitter.com/aija_tweet/status/1042129999262887936

3Tesla (@3Tesla1) 9/19/18, 3:20 PM
Monday: @Tesla closes at $296
Tuesday(day of massive short FUD): @Tesla closes at $284
Wednesday: @Tesla should close at $298 or so
https://twitter.com/3tesla1/status/1042493552683634690

TSLA Wednesday close:  $299.02

https://www.teslafudtracker.com
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #95 on: September 20, 2018, 04:19:09 PM »
Elon Musk must be feeling pretty good about the September numbers he’s seeing.  He retweeted this ;D :
Tesla is 'headed for the graveyard,' predicts former GM exec Bob Lutz
https://twitter.com/cnbci/status/1042173012227842048


Thread extract:
Quote
28_DELAYS_Later_ (@28delayslater) 9/19/18, 8:59 PM
What does @InsideEVs know about Tesla production #s.  ???
https://twitter.com/28delayslater/status/1042578922171445248

InsideEVs: You should see our tracker!! Way unlike that Bloomberg thingy! Ours is accurate.

28: Off topic now much do your authors get paid for market moving stories?

IEV: Nothing. We are flat rate salaried. So not a dime. Thanks for asking.

28: Didn’t think so. Well done. Keep up the good work. Can’t wait to see those #s!


28:  Ok so if you don’t get extra for market moving stories, surely you share your Tesla referral codes and all have roadsters?

IEV:  Nope against policy

28:  ;D @InsideEVs is the best.


Quote
TalkTesla (@TalkTesla) 9/19/18, 10:13 AM
Wow, look at all of these new EV competitors! @Tesla is surely doomed!

Oh... wait... nvm
https://twitter.com/talktesla/status/1042416456984612864
GIF at the link brings up a graph of web searches worldwide for the biggest upcoming, known-brand EV competitors, over the last year — then the Model 3.
It’s pretty funny. ;D
« Last Edit: September 20, 2018, 04:41:13 PM by Sigmetnow »
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #96 on: September 20, 2018, 06:18:10 PM »
”With the Model 3 getting its official NHTSA score, Tesla now holds the distinction of being an automaker whose entire lineup of production vehicles have 5-Star safety ratings.”

Tesla Model 3 earns flawless 5-Star safety rating from NHTSA
Quote
Just like the Model 3, the Tesla Model X received perfect scores in all of the NHTSA’s frontal crash, side crash, and rollover tests. Back in 2013, the Tesla Model S performed so well during the NHTSA’s testing, the vehicle ended up breaking the organization’s crash-testing gear.
https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-model-3-earns-flawless-5-star-safety-rating-from-nhtsa/


Edit: 
More: with crash test videos!

Tesla Model 3 gets perfect 5-star safety rating in every category from NHTSA [Videos]
https://electrek.co/2018/09/20/tesla-model-3-5-star-safety-rating-nhtsa/

For context: the BMW 3 Series, Audi A4, Mercedes C Class, and Lexus IS models… while overall are 5-star, are all rated 4-star in frontal crash ratings. Whereas the Tesla Model 3 is 5-Star in all.
Even 100 years of manufacturing expertise can’t make a big ICE engine into a dedicated crumple zone.

P.S.:  Please note that the batteries did not burst into flames.

P.P.S.:  Yesterday, a Model X was inadvertently tested for airplane crashworthiness. :o
Tesla Model X owner says car ‘saved’ them after a plane crashed into his electric SUV
https://electrek.co/2018/09/20/tesla-model-x-owner-saved-them-plane-crash-electric-suv/


And later:
Elon Musk (@elonmusk) 9/20/18, 1:26 PM
.@NHTSAgov will post final safety probability stats soon. Model 3 has a shot at being safest car ever tested. ...
Key technical point is that the polar moment of inertia (concentration of mass around center) of a Tesla, to the extent of our knowledge, is better than any other production car. This positively affects safety, handling & driving feel. Extremely important metric.
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1042827334758260736

<< This is why they don’t do commercials. “Come drive the Model 3. It has the best polar momentum of inertia.”
https://twitter.com/28delayslater/status/1042845193723105280
« Last Edit: September 20, 2018, 10:01:30 PM by Sigmetnow »
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NeilT

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #97 on: September 20, 2018, 10:54:12 PM »
You know, of course, that crash testing is done at 40mph.

What happens when a Model S hits a freeway intersection barrier at 70mph is a very different situation.

In that case the "crumple Zone" is torn off the front of the car and the battery bursts into flames.

I am all for the cars improving their crash test stats.  But let us introduce a fair amount of realism into the situation.  Tesla's are extremely safe at 40mph.  At 70, if you are daft enough, they can kill you.

Just to keep a dose of reality into the situation.

Yes, they are, generally, safe.  No they are not bomb proof not matter how they ace the tests.
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GoSouthYoungins

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #98 on: September 21, 2018, 06:02:24 AM »
If I’m going to cherry-pick one brief comment to be excited about, out of an hour-long unedited discussion, I prefer to pick a positive one.  So there you go. ;D

P.S.  Climate is local, too. ;)

P.P.S.:  Thanks for the self-moderation.


EDIT: more of the words surrounding the “70%” quote from the Gerber video.  “Cars” would seem to be referring to “all road transport” in that sentence.  And road transport is responsible for 70% of transport emissions.
—-
Quote
“We were discussing sustainable transport and energy. …
70% of emissions for climate is from cars.…
Tesla’s mission is not just about making money.  It’s about creating sustainable transport. It’s about making sure we’ll be here in 30, 40, 50 years.  A lot of people think that’s alarmist, but if you’re in South Carolina right now [suffering from hurricane Florence], you probably don’t think that’s alarmist.  That’s why we need to switch to an electric infrastructure and we need to have many forms of electric transportation, even like Birds [e-scooters] and other forms of electric transport.  But in the end, this is just imperative.”

“Within this [Transport] sector, road transport is by far the biggest emitter accounting for more than 70% of all GHG emissions from transport in 2014.”
https://ec.europa.eu/clima/policies/transport_en

You are seriously like a crazy person. You are willing to justify anything. Anyone familiar enough with the subject matter will realize this. I hope that’s enough of a majority.  This is by far the closest thing I have seen relative to indiscriminate troll behavior. I have no idea how the moderators don’t realize this.
big time oops

Neven

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #99 on: September 21, 2018, 11:32:07 AM »
I have no idea how the moderators don’t realize this.

The moderator is pretty dumb, but smart enough to know that he cannot know the truth and it is impossible for him to moderate. And so he sets up a thread where all the pro- and anti-BS can be funneled to, until things have played out, and we can see - in retrospect - a tiny sliver of truth. If we're lucky.  ;)

Works perfectly, if you ask me.
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