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Sigmetnow

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #1350 on: February 13, 2019, 01:12:58 AM »
...
Scoop: GM Reportedly Working On Electric Pickup Truck With Tesla Powertrain
Quote
Remember, Chevrolet raced the Bolt to market in order to be the first US automaker offering a long-range, semi-affordable electric car. It cares about going electric, maybe.

A source somewhat close to the heart of a big new development at GM has informed CleanTechnica that GM is indeed working on an electric pickup truck, and it is based around a Tesla powertrain. As in, the majority of the guts of the truck will be made by Tesla. ...
https://cleantechnica.com/2019/02/12/scoop-gm-working-on-electric-pickup-truck-with-tesla-powertrain/
...

Quote
Update: Tesla has denied any such partnership with GM in response to an email from CleanTechnica.
Update #2: GM declined to comment.

 ??? Secret?

But then there’s this:

GM and Amazon in talks to invest in electric pickup/SUV maker Rivian
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Reuters reports that GM and Amazon are looking to invest in Rivian at a valuation of $1 – 2 billion. The investment wouldn’t be a buyout – just a minority stake. Rivian already reportedly raised over $500 million in previous rounds of funding.
The deal could be announced as soon as this month. Details beyond that are sparse but the mere prospect of these two companies investing in Rivian automatically adds some credibility to the company.
https://electrek.co/2019/02/12/rivian-gm-amazon/
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Rob Dekker

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #1351 on: February 13, 2019, 10:57:20 AM »
It should be obvious by now that Tesla caused a world-wide Electric Vehicle revolution, disturbing markets for EV makers in China and German ICE vehicles alike.

Meanwhile, the company keeps track of how much CO2 was saved (not emitted) by Tesla vehicle drivers :

https://www.tesla.com/carbonimpact

Almost 4 Mega-ton !

And they will likely double that next year.

I know there are many skeptical voices here about Tesla.

But name a company that saved more CO2.

And for the skeptics :

If not by de-carbonizing transportation with electric vehicles, how else do you envision that we get to a carbon-neutral world ?
This is our planet. This is our time.
Let's not waste either.

gerontocrat

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #1352 on: February 13, 2019, 05:09:54 PM »
TESLA - You are doomed!!!
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-02-12/tesla-s-latest-competitor-is-a-15-500-electric-three-wheeler
Canada's Answer to Tesla Is a $15,500 Electric Three-Wheeler
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magnamentis

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #1353 on: February 14, 2019, 08:16:31 PM »
there is a documentation on tesla tongight 21:00 on german channel Phoenix

the titel suggests that on one hand it's common sense that tesla is ahead when it comes to
EVs but that they're more and more getting into trouble for various reasons that were discussed in this forum.

for those who are interested and can't watch (reception over astra satellite as well possible)

here is the link to online information: https://www.phoenix.de/sendungen.html

before that at 20:15 there is a discussion about diesel-gate

FYI "Phoenix" is one of the more reputable channels while there is no 100% trustworthy channel at all, at least they try to be objective most of the time and provide many discussions with guests from most sides of the spectrum.

EDIT: corrected reputable ;) thanks Tor
« Last Edit: February 14, 2019, 10:27:10 PM by magnamentis »

Sigmetnow

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #1354 on: February 14, 2019, 09:22:46 PM »
Quote
I like Tesla (@iliketeslas) 2/12/19, 4:08 AM
I have repeated this for years. Tesla will partner with big auto because big auto is broke without Tesla. It's super clear. $tsla $tslaq
https://twitter.com/iliketeslas/status/1095248202108977152

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Tesla Driver (@m_xalher) 2/12/19, 2:34 PM
Norway’s leading Volvo importer says it’s been hit by “EV tsunami”. Development tempo in Norwegian market “too high” for the auto industry to keep up. (Business daily DN today)
https://twitter.com/m_xalher/status/1095405832257323009

Quote
LiveSquawk (@LiveSquawk) 2/12/19, 5:37 PM
Ford Is Stepping Up Preparations To Move Production Out Of Britain - The Times, Citing Company Statement To PM May In Private Call With Business Leaders
https://twitter.com/livesquawk/status/1095451775920992256

——-
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Elon Musk (@elonmusk) 2/14/19, 1:12 AM
Some sites maintained an almost daily Tesla deathwatch 11 years ago, reporting with an awful delight. 
4000 days later …
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1095928711331831808

Tesla Vs World: Unique Look Back At Tesla Killers That Failed To Kill
https://insideevs.com/tesla-vs-world-tesla-killers-vaporware/

No, Rivian is most definitely not ‘Tesla’s worst nightmare’
https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-vs-rivian-rivalry-debunked/
(It’s Ford’s! ;) )

——
Quote
(@rocketisfine) 2/13/19, 6:59 AM
So @Tesla parked a Model X in downtown Cologne (Germany) & within like 10 minutes people were queuing to sign up for test drives
https://twitter.com/rocketisfine/status/1095653604025950208

—-
Quote
Vincent (@vincent13031925) 2/13/19, 2:12 PM
Chinese Gov media CCTV reports:
The first batch of @Tesla Model 3 arrived in Tianjin Port.
Two other freighters with M3, "Morning Cindy" and "Emerald Ace", will also arrive in Shanghai and Tianjin Ports next week.
https://twitter.com/vincent13031925/status/1095762568235237376
     
Rather balanced article:
Tesla Rushes Model 3s to China Before Trade-War Truce Expires
https://www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/articles/2019-02-13/tesla-rushes-model-3s-to-china-before-trade-war-truce-expires?__twitter_impression=true
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zizek

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #1355 on: February 15, 2019, 02:43:39 AM »
https://arstechnica.com/cars/2019/02/in-2017-the-feds-said-tesla-autopilot-cut-crashes-40-that-was-bogus/


Quote
In 2017, the feds said Tesla Autopilot cut crashes 40%—that was bogus


Quote
But now NHTSA's raw data set is available, and, if anything, it appears to contradict Musk's claims. The majority of the vehicles in the Tesla data set suffered from missing data or other problems that made it impossible to say whether the activation of Autosteer increased or decreased the crash rate. But when QCS focused on 5,714 vehicles whose data didn't suffer from these problems, it found that the activation of Autosteer actually increased crash rates by 59 percent.


At this point I'm pretty sure Musk has never made any claims that aren't outright lies or grossly exaggerated. From his philanthropy (promising to fix Flint's water crisis, but instead bought teachers laptops), to his SpaceX sci-fi bologna (a water tower company built his mars transporter prototype), and almost everything surrounding Tesla. Why are people on this forum still defending him? He should be openly mocked.





https://www.wivb.com/news/investigates/former-tesla-workers-paint-grim-picture-of-buffalo-plant/1754568826

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In November, Tesla gave the media its first glimpse inside the Buffalo factory.

Employees described it as a “dog and pony” show that was planned by Tesla for over a month. They said Tesla had walls built to hide unused equipment and blocked off large areas. Tesla said the employees are mistaken and saw a warehouse constructed to both secure and protect equipment and to organize the space.

The tour was an extremely controlled event, with the company picking employees to speak with reporters and not letting cameras inside. Footage recorded by Tesla was provided to television outlets like News 4.

“It was all fabricated for show,” Witherell said.

“There was no actual production that day so some of the teams in their specific area were instructed to make sure they looked busy and they actually were working on the same module over and over again.”

----
https://twitter.com/willCIR/status/1095094022173949953

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Remember when @elonmusk claimed that Cal/OSHA looked into Tesla underreporting injuries and found "that we had not been doing anything of the sort"?

Well, it wasn't true then, and it's even less true now. Cal/OSHA just cited Tesla *again* for failing to record worker injuries.



it's become a weekly thing that I read something that displays Musk's dishonesty and fraudulent behavior. He's like the Donald Trump for tech obsessed weirdos.

And then I read this thread. Sigmetnow has a particular knack for posting only positive news about Tesla. And obsessively. It drowns everything out while making Musk look like Our Only Savior. It's tiring and annoying. People who digest a lot of information through these boards will get the wrong idea.

Musk is an awful person, and his "vision" to save us from climate change is a scam to make himself richer and more powerful. Why the hell do you people not get that? How are $60,000 cars doing anything about climate change? You could buy 300 $200 bicycles with that sort of money. I just don't get it. I really don't.

I feel like I'm going insane every time I read this thread. You would think that a forum dedicated to climate change would have a little common sense and TRY to be critical of a billionaire who flies around in a private jet.

How many years do we have left to save us from climate change? Do we really have the luxury to blindly embrace every billionaires vanity project  in the hope that "he's actually one of the good ones, he's gonna save us, please don't say anything mean about him".

How long will it take before we finally realize that there is something fundamentally wrong with the approach we're taking for climate change? The idea that People like Musk are our only hope is got to be the best example of how the rich and powerful have bound us into our miserable stockholm syndrome.
It is so hopeless. Defeating climate change. We're still stuck throwing money at rich people. And I don't see us ever stopping until it's too late.

We should be building guillotines not cars.

oren

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #1356 on: February 15, 2019, 03:40:21 AM »
You can believe whatever you choose to believe about Musk and whatever, but advocating guillotines for rich people as a solution?

Yamatin

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #1357 on: February 15, 2019, 03:50:23 AM »
Let's say you are right zizek. Musk and Telsa are bad and should go away. Then what is the play? I see the main argument against Telsa being
1) it takes up time and money that could otherwise go to other solutions, and
2) it consumes the conversion, thus preventing the discussion from going towards higher impact solutions.

It's the old Green BAU vs. end BAU argument. After 12 years of corporate sustainability consulting, I, unfortunately, land squarely in the Green BAU view as human nature simply won't allow BAU to stop. Ending Telsa would more than likely mean the auto industry goes back to slow playing anything new and we lose another decade while waiting for China EVs to hit western quality standards and take over.

This isn't to say I like Green BAU over end BAU (and I would guess most Green BAU advocates don't either) - Green BAU will end up leaving us with 3 to 4 degrees temperature rise. On the other hand going for an end BAU approach would likely leave us with 5+ degrees temperature as the reality is nothing would change beyond isolated pockets.

zizek

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #1358 on: February 15, 2019, 04:07:53 AM »
You can believe whatever you choose to believe about Musk and whatever, but advocating guillotines for rich people as a solution?

That was a joke. Obviously. jeez. But just to humor myself:
15TWh of fossil fuel electricity production. $.06 per kWh for renewables, we're looking at about $900 billion dollars to decarbonize the worldwide electricity grid.

The collective wealth of all the 2,200 billionaires is 9.1 trillions.  So if we guillotined those 2200 billionaires we would be able to use their wealth to decarbonize the world's electrical grid, and hopefully save humanity. (I know wealth doesn't really translate well into anything liquid, but we're just having fun).

And at what cost, you would probably only need hundred guillotines at most. You're talking no more than $100,000. It's simple math here.

oren

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #1359 on: February 15, 2019, 04:12:38 AM »
Let's say you are right zizek. Musk and Telsa are bad and should go away. Then what is the play? I see the main argument against Telsa being
1) it takes up time and money that could otherwise go to other solutions, and
2) it consumes the conversion, thus preventing the discussion from going towards higher impact solutions.

It's the old Green BAU vs. end BAU argument. After 12 years of corporate sustainability consulting, I, unfortunately, land squarely in the Green BAU view as human nature simply won't allow BAU to stop. Ending Telsa would more than likely mean the auto industry goes back to slow playing anything new and we lose another decade while waiting for China EVs to hit western quality standards and take over.

This isn't to say I like Green BAU over end BAU (and I would guess most Green BAU advocates don't either) - Green BAU will end up leaving us with 3 to 4 degrees temperature rise. On the other hand going for an end BAU approach would likely leave us with 5+ degrees temperature as the reality is nothing would change beyond isolated pockets.
Well said!

zizek

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #1360 on: February 15, 2019, 04:41:31 AM »
Let's say you are right zizek. Musk and Telsa are bad and should go away. Then what is the play? I see the main argument against Telsa being
1) it takes up time and money that could otherwise go to other solutions, and
2) it consumes the conversion, thus preventing the discussion from going towards higher impact solutions.

It's the old Green BAU vs. end BAU argument. After 12 years of corporate sustainability consulting, I, unfortunately, land squarely in the Green BAU view as human nature simply won't allow BAU to stop. Ending Telsa would more than likely mean the auto industry goes back to slow playing anything new and we lose another decade while waiting for China EVs to hit western quality standards and take over.

This isn't to say I like Green BAU over end BAU (and I would guess most Green BAU advocates don't either) - Green BAU will end up leaving us with 3 to 4 degrees temperature rise. On the other hand going for an end BAU approach would likely leave us with 5+ degrees temperature as the reality is nothing would change beyond isolated pockets.

It's pretty straight forward: A radical transformation of our society. Redistribute labor and wealth to both decarbonize our world while becoming an equitable society.
This will be the result of a revolution.

What you have to understand that a revolution is to occur no matter what. Things are not getting better, things are getting worse and worse. Economically, politically, and of course environmentally. A couple decades from now, the 9 billion people on this earth are not going to handle the simultaneous assault of climate change and extreme inequality with much grace. People who are on the brink of starvation are not going to look at billionaires and say to themselves "those guys tried their best, I will just rot here, no problemo". No, Things are going to get Very Ugly.

But, and its up to you, you can reduce the amount of suffering by expediting a radical transformation. If first worlders start thinking a little more creatively, and are more willingly to sacrifice their luxuries, they may pave way for a more peaceful revolution.
Take a hard line against capitalism, and become a role model for an equal and responsible society.
DON'T own multiple properties like NeilT does.
DON'T support violent imperialism like Rob does
DON'T support corporate centrists like Susan does.

START organizing, collaborating, communicating with leftist orgs in your area
START calling out exploitative ideology in your day-to-day. At dinner parties, at work, even on the internet.

MAKE A SACRIFICE. And maybe... just maybe.... We can create a better world. But simply buying solar panels and an expensive car isn't enough. You have to be creative. You have to be bold.  And you have to start now!


Ask yourself this. Let's say you're in your twenties, and have to decide how you're going to confront climate change. And lets say you have an extra $60,000 to blow.  Do you use the $60,000 to buy a fancy EV. Or do you use that money to get active in radical transformation by organizing events, printing pamphlets, supporting other orgs, and of course riding a fucking bike.

Because when 2050 rolls around and millions of people are dying from climate change related disasters, you're not going to look back and pat yourself on the back for buying a car.

oren

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #1361 on: February 15, 2019, 09:45:31 AM »
It's pretty straight forward: A radical transformation of our society. Redistribute labor and wealth to both decarbonize our world while becoming an equitable society.
This will be the result of a revolution.
A commendable goal. But how is this revolution coming along? I fear not at all, at least for the next two decades.

Quote
What you have to understand that a revolution is to occur no matter what. Things are not getting better, things are getting worse and worse. Economically, politically, and of course environmentally. A couple decades from now, the 9 billion people on this earth are not going to handle the simultaneous assault of climate change and extreme inequality with much grace. People who are on the brink of starvation are not going to look at billionaires and say to themselves "those guys tried their best, I will just rot here, no problemo". No, Things are going to get Very Ugly.
I agree.  But I strongly doubt the result will be an equitable redistribution of wealth and labor. I foresee lots of wars of strong against weak, fighting over diminishing resources, with the end resembling feudalism.

Quote
...
MAKE A SACRIFICE. And maybe... just maybe.... We can create a better world. But simply buying solar panels and an expensive car isn't enough. You have to be creative. You have to be bold.  And you have to start now!
Maybe we can convince a majority of the global population. But probably not, and certainly not in time IMHO. And then you get the full environmental disaster.

Quote
Ask yourself this. Let's say you're in your twenties, and have to decide how you're going to confront climate change. And lets say you have an extra $60,000 to blow.  Do you use the $60,000 to buy a fancy EV. Or do you use that money to get active in radical transformation by organizing events, printing pamphlets, supporting other orgs, and of course riding a fucking bike.

Because when 2050 rolls around and millions of people are dying from climate change related disasters, you're not going to look back and pat yourself on the back for buying a car.
Coming back just barely to the topic of this thread, ask yourself this. Do you have a recommendation or preference for the 100 million people buying a car or light truck each year, despite your best pamphlets and your bike-riding? My preference, after wishing for them to not buy that car, is for them to buy a car with the least long-term environmental damage. And such a car, with current technologies, is an efficient EV. And for these people to choose that EV, it has to be attractive and affordable compared to what they were going to get anyway. There you have it, this is why I am happy when EVs replace ICE cars, not because I think this is a sufficient or even a good solution, but because it lessens the environmental catastrophe awaiting mid-century. Meanwhile, I will keep hoping for an end to consumerism, but hope alone is not a viable strategy.
Tesla's long-term goal is to produce (or cause to be produced by others) efficient, attractive and affordable EVs. They started with $100k cars for the very rich, are now at upscale $40k cars for the well-to-do, and hopefully will get to average $25k cars in 5 years. These cars will also have a used market at cheaper prices. And Tesla's very existence is pressuring other automakers to come up with lots of other EVs, some even cheaper than that, thereby giving the 100 million car buyers cleaner options for their choosing.
This is why I hope Tesla will survive and prosper. And this is the subject of this thread. Not the coming revolution, not even whether EVs are environmentally better than ICE, only whether Tesla will succeed or fail and other related news and analysis.

Another Tesla-related point: I strongly believe that in your hatred for capitalism and over-consumption, and in you strong wish for an outright revolution, you are very skewed in your assessment of Musk and Tesla. Tesla is not a scam waiting to go bankrupt, and Musk is not an arch-villain. They have their failings and are not perfect, but they are not the problem, the problem is those 100 million people each year that nobody yet has managed to stop.

Neven

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #1362 on: February 15, 2019, 10:18:05 AM »
And then I read this thread. Sigmetnow has a particular knack for posting only positive news about Tesla. And obsessively.

That's the whole idea of this thread! How often do I need to repeat it?

Quote
It drowns everything out while making Musk look like Our Only Savior. It's tiring and annoying. People who digest a lot of information through these boards will get the wrong idea.

Then instead of ranting, post Tesla bear stuff! Or have your say, wait and see, and then go TYS.

Quote
We should be building guillotines not cars.

I know you don't mean this literally, but try to keep in mind - it's hard, I know - that rich people are just as much victims as we are. They are concentrated wealth junkies, nothing more than puppets. They should be pitied, not hated.

Take the rants elsewhere (preferably a Green BAU thread) or create your own thread. I've been very clear about what this thread is about: Tesla's survival/demise. Not the consequences of its survival/demise, or the moral implications. Next rant will be snipped.
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #1363 on: February 15, 2019, 01:23:45 PM »
Do you consider a Prius owner to be “wealthy”?  How about an owner of a Nissan LEAF? Or a Honda Civic? 
The top five trade-ins for a Model 3 were:

Honda Accord
Honda Civic
Nissan Leaf
Toyota Prius
BMW 3 Series

“...Consumers are significantly changing their purchasing habits in order to buy a Model 3.”

They are spending more money than they otherwise would...  to buy a product that significantly lowers their carbon emissions — whether that is their reason for the purchase, or not.  This is precisely the type of mindset we need right now!

From the Q4 2018 Tesla Update letter:
Quote
The appeal of Model 3 continues to go far beyond the mid-sized premium sedan market. Our trade-in data suggests that consumers are significantly changing their purchasing habits in order to buy a Model 3. Of all trade-ins we’ve ever received from customers buying a Model 3, only 17% are other mid-sized premium sedans. Perhaps more surprisingly, almost 60% of these trade-ins are non-premium vehicles. We are also seeing that a significant number of Model 3 buyers are trading down in size from a larger car or a SUV to a Model 3. Designed from the ground up to be electric, Model 3 has more interior space than its gas-powered equivalents. Interestingly, Model S accounted for only a small portion (4%) of total Model 3 trade-ins.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2019, 01:40:49 PM by Sigmetnow »
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #1364 on: February 15, 2019, 01:35:43 PM »
Working for Tesla is not easy.

Tesla ends contract to prepare Model 3 for delivery in Europe a week after first ship
Quote
A week after the first shipment of Model 3 vehicles arrived in Europe, Tesla is reportedly ending its contract with the company preparing the vehicles at the port due to complications.

As we reported last week, Tesla received its first massive shipment of Model 3 vehicles at the Zeebrugge port for European deliveries, which started a day later.  CEO Elon Musk confirmed that Tesla experienced some difficulties handling the shipment at the port.  It resulted in many buyers having their delivery delayed.

The automaker had reportedly hired a company called ICO to handle 3,000 Model 3’s per week coming to Europe, but Belgium news is now reporting that ICO will no longer prepare the vehicles after unloading them from the ships.


According to the reports, Tesla has decided to handle the delivery preparation of Model 3 itself in order to accelerate the process.  The decision came after Musk visited the Zeebrugge port and there was also a day-long strike that affected port workers and reportedly resulted in delaying some Tesla deliveries.

We contacted Tesla about the situation, but the company didn’t issue a comment.

About 100 ICO workers hired specifically for the Model 3 contract were reportedly told not to show up to work.

There are several more ships with Model 3 vehicles currently on their way to the Zeebrugge port as Tesla ramps up Model 3 deliveries in Europe.
https://electrek.co/2019/02/15/tesla-ends-contract-model-3-delivery-europe/
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magnamentis

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #1365 on: February 15, 2019, 06:10:18 PM »
thanks to tesla things are developing in ernest by now.

first productions of new mercedes and  audi EVs are sold out and the waiting list is getting longer and longer.

https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/elektroauto/elektro-suv-audi-e-tron-mercedes-eqc-ausverkauft/

as i said, thanks to tesla this happens now and not in 10-20 years but it won't make things easier for tesla to say it nicely.

i recommend to read the test ride review about the audi e-tron and especially the part about some technological qualities and how i and others compare the "feel" between riding various EVs.

i'm ever more certain that things will go the way i thought from day one. major players shall overwhelm early birds like a tsunami once they start to produce in numers.

another very interesting comparison would be model S with the new porsche taycan. even though i was seriously looking at the iPace for later this year i now seriously consider to wait for the porsche, after all not one of them has ever let me down over the last 45 years whenever i had the pleasure to drive one of those. mosty 911s and one 928 back in the 80s.

perhaps i have to mention that i produce electricity for AC, Heating and Vehicles on my own roof with wind and PV and a decent battery storage with used car and truck batteries and that i keep my vehicles for 10-15 years. yes, smaller would be better but there is the point where we come from and then there is the question what uses less resources, quality that lasts 20-30 years or small and cheap that lasts 5-10 years. last but no least i admit that i like it powerful and fast, not so easy to flip from one extreme to another and since we're in the tesla thread, they as well are luxury vehicles and fast and powerful as that ;)

i think very interesting times lay ahead and as kind of an old-school car and motorbike enthusiast  i would be happy to see nice toys that run on electricity rather than fuel. that includes a serious lookout for a nice E-SportsTourer that doesn't cost 50'000 €uros with a decent performance. my current Concour GTR1400 by Kawasaki is definitely kind of a "Mammuth" that has to die out with a 7-8 l/100km consumption for the 400kg it weighs, 1 rider included.

https://www.autoguide.com/car-comparisons/porsche-taycan-vs-tesla-model-s-which-ev-is-right-for-you

i think it's obvious that any non-english text can easily translated nowadays, even on-site translation exists nowadays via google and other tools.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2019, 06:47:18 PM by magnamentis »

oren

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #1366 on: February 15, 2019, 07:51:06 PM »
Thanks for your interesting post Magnamentis. I also found the linked review quite objective and informative which is nice. Honestly until the Taycan is actually available some of this is speculation, so we'll know better in a few months. Another issue is whether it will be available in large numbers, which I suspect not.
The way I see it, Tesla's advantages are in drive-train, batteries and efficient design (e.g. drag coefficient). Traditional automaker advantages are quality and "feel" for the high-end makers, plus brand loyalty, and streamlined mass production and logistics for the mass-market makers. I would not be surprised if eventually Model S and X will lose out to the high end models from traditional automakers, but I don't think this will bring Tesla down. Tesla's main revenue is expected to come from the mid-market Model 3 and upcoming Model Y, where its advantages are still significant, as they enable it to make a profit on such cars and still provide sufficient range and performance, while the traditional automakers are having a hard time making such cars at both spec and profit, and are mostly aiming for compliance cars at the moment. This could well change in 5-10 years, but I wouldn't bet on it just yet.
There is also the wildcard of the Tesla Semi, which could be a low-volume flop or a profitable big hit, but this will only be known at least 2 years from now, after initial deliveries, production hell and all that.

zizek

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #1367 on: February 16, 2019, 12:21:44 AM »
<I agree, but snip anyway; N.>
« Last Edit: February 16, 2019, 09:22:14 AM by Neven »

zizek

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #1368 on: February 16, 2019, 12:50:33 AM »
I like this website:

https://www.tesla.com/en_CA/carbonimpact

Because it provides absolutely no context. It tries to tell me that Tesla has reduced emissions by 3.5 million tons***.  But if all those people decided to use public transportation or riding a bicycle, their emissions would actually be in the red

Technically, in only 87 days BP managed to reduce almost 2 million tons (or about 4 million Tesla tons***) of CO2 by putting that oil in the ocean instead. Amazing.

---------
****
hahaha. Oh my god. When I did my calculations I didn't know what unit of ton TSLA was using.  So I added all the pounds from each country to get a total amount of pounds. But I couldn't get anything that matched their total. But that's because they divided their total lbs by 1000, rather than 2000 (or 2200). It's not a metric tonne, or an imperial ton. It's an imaginary ton.   ;D
their CO2 emissions are off by a factor of 2. hahaha.  Someone please check my work. this is too good.

zizek

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #1369 on: February 16, 2019, 12:57:27 AM »
Oh and I almost forgot about that time Musk donated a bunch of money to the Republican party. 

zizek

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #1370 on: February 16, 2019, 01:20:43 AM »
I like this website:

https://www.tesla.com/en_CA/carbonimpact

Because it provides absolutely no context. It tries to tell me that Tesla has reduced emissions by 3.5 million tons***.  But if all those people decided to use public transportation or riding a bicycle, their emissions would actually be in the red

Technically, in only 87 days BP managed to reduce almost 2 million tons (or about 4 million Tesla tons***) of CO2 by putting that oil in the ocean instead. Amazing.

---------
****
hahaha. Oh my god. When I did my calculations I didn't know what unit of ton TSLA was using.  So I added all the pounds from each country to get a total amount of pounds. But I couldn't get anything that matched their total. But that's because they divided their total lbs by 1000, rather than 2000 (or 2200). It's not a metric tonne, or an imperial ton. It's an imaginary ton.   ;D
their CO2 emissions are off by a factor of 2. hahaha.  Someone please check my work. this is too good.



Actually I think BP is better off than Tesla because at least BP didn't sell pollution credits so other companies can pay to pollute for them!

Archimid

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #1371 on: February 16, 2019, 04:26:04 AM »
The lies and trolling, I can get used to, but insulting Sigmet Now for posting on topic links is wrong.

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Bruce Steele

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #1372 on: February 16, 2019, 05:33:18 AM »
This thread gets kinda crazy sometimes. I am getting some power walls before I get an electric car. They can store about 27 kW of electricity and even if my solar array cranks on a clear day it may have trouble loading the 27 kW -2.7 kW of emergency power on an average day. That is the two walls will only hold 24.3 kW of power they can send into a electric car per day so 85 kW - 24.3 or 60.7 kW would need to come off the grid . If there were some extra solar power available it would need to go to the house/farm. The point is even with over 6 kW in solar panels a substantial portion of the energy needed to charge a 85 kW car is going to come off the grid. Depending on the renewable share of your utility supply some of your energy will be fossil fuel derived.
 In spite of the above points by the time a Tesla gets to 135,000 it will have produced half of the CO2 emissions of a similar sized ICE car according to a salon article. This includes the embodied carbon in manufacture even though the Teslas embodied manufacture costs start about 15% higher than an ICE.
 

https://www.salon.com/2017/05/14/sorry-tesla-owners-but-your-electric-car/

Batteries for the power wall and any Tesla battery replacements , not uncommon at 135,000 miles, would decrease the one half CO2 to something less. Maybe something that means a Tesla only saves ~ one third an ICE cars footprint.
My point is this is a reasonable result but maybe not as good a result as some people seem to believe.
On the other hand these numbers are based on substantial amounts of driving that seems far more than anything really justified for someone really concerned with reducing their carbon footprint.
 I am not sure these results justify the emotional bent on either side of this debate . Teslas glory or failure may be dependent on factors other than it's enviornmental impacts unless technological improvements in batteries can improve some of these numbers. I think there are battery improvements in the pipeline but it will take some time before these numbers change much.


 

oren

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #1373 on: February 16, 2019, 09:21:15 AM »
Bruce, good points but just one correction - the car doesn"t need a full charge each day, only a topping up. 85kw can get you ~300 miles, which is probably 1-2 weeks worth of driving.
But I agree, in general it is a very partial solution. Being a pragmatist, I prefer a partial solution to no solution at all, but I will not delude myself as to the completeness of this solution, and I will keep hoping for more comprehensive solutions including changes in lifestyles.

Rob Dekker

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #1374 on: February 16, 2019, 09:28:49 AM »
https://www.tesla.com/en_CA/carbonimpact
...
hahaha. Oh my god. When I did my calculations I didn't know what unit of ton TSLA was using.  So I added all the pounds from each country to get a total amount of pounds. But I couldn't get anything that matched their total. But that's because they divided their total lbs by 1000, rather than 2000 (or 2200). It's not a metric tonne, or an imperial ton. It's an imaginary ton.   ;D
their CO2 emissions are off by a factor of 2. hahaha.  Someone please check my work. this is too good.

If you add up all the pounds from each country, you end up just around 8 billion lbs. That (divided by 2000) matches nicely with the 4 Million (US) ton they mention as the total.

Looks like Tesla is correct.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2019, 10:12:19 AM by Rob Dekker »
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Bruce Steele

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #1375 on: February 16, 2019, 10:31:01 AM »
Oren, I see five or six Teslas a day here in Southern Calif. when I hit the freeways. They are beautiful , sexy and so tempting. I am sure they will be as common as Volkswagens Beatles once were ,very soon.
A typical commute can easily exceed 60 miles one way around here so in a five year period a typical commuter will exceed the 135,000 miles the Solon article bases its study upon. That is rather typical but some people commute further.
 I can spend weeks sometimes never leaving the farm but there are literally tens of millions of commuters living within 150 miles . Maybe I should leave but I never will. I hope someone might learn something from my rather extreme attempts at simplicity but honestly there are no solutions here anymore. I too consider myself rather pragmatic but I suppose I am just nuts like everyone else around here.
 Neven, please don't take Zizek out. We can handle a few angry voices around here. Zizek, I don't know how to make you smile but think of my position, an old man with a thousand pounds of acorns in the drying shed and lots of very fat happy pigs on a farm inside a swirling mass of humans. I hope you find that humorous , I do.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2019, 10:58:15 AM by Bruce Steele »

Neven

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #1376 on: February 16, 2019, 11:17:43 AM »
Neven, please don't take Zizek out. We can handle a few angry voices around here.

I won't, but I want him to take his rants about the moral implications of Tesla/Musk elsewhere, like here or here.

This thread isn't about Tesla per se, but about whether Tesla is going to go bankrupt soon or not.
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #1377 on: February 16, 2019, 02:03:40 PM »
I would post positive articles about other companies who threaten Tesla’s success with their own EVs, battery storage, or solar production — if there were any.  But there aren’t, so…. ;D

Reminder: Tesla’s board, Elon Musk and Tesla shareholders approved a 10-year compensation package for Elon that is based purely on Tesla’s performance:
Quote
Elon will receive no guaranteed compensation of any kind — no salary, no cash bonuses, and no equity that vests by the passage of time. Instead, Elon’s only compensation will be a 100% at-risk performance award, which ensures that he will be compensated only if Tesla and all of our stockholders do extraordinarily well. The award consists of stock options that vest only if Tesla achieves specific milestones, which if fully achieved would make Tesla one of the most valuable companies in the world with a market capitalization of at least $650 billion — more than 10x today’s value.
http://ir.tesla.com/secfiling.cfm?filingID=1193125-18-35345&CIK=1318605
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Archimid

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #1378 on: February 16, 2019, 02:17:48 PM »
The evil Elon Musk paradox. He is a scammer who invested all his money and time on a company that is going bankrupt. He keeps buying his own stock even when there is no demand. He works for free on a company that can't produce cars.

 Worst. Scammer. Ever.

I mean, how much he can really sell and then hop on his jet to some extradition free location? Wouldn't he lose a lot of money if he was a scammer? The only way for him to gain something out of this is if he succeeds.

He puts his money, and more important, his time where his mouth is. Go Tesla. This is happening.
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zizek

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #1379 on: February 16, 2019, 10:22:47 PM »
https://www.tesla.com/en_CA/carbonimpact
...
hahaha. Oh my god. When I did my calculations I didn't know what unit of ton TSLA was using.  So I added all the pounds from each country to get a total amount of pounds. But I couldn't get anything that matched their total. But that's because they divided their total lbs by 1000, rather than 2000 (or 2200). It's not a metric tonne, or an imperial ton. It's an imaginary ton.   ;D
their CO2 emissions are off by a factor of 2. hahaha.  Someone please check my work. this is too good.

If you add up all the pounds from each country, you end up just around 8 billion lbs. That (divided by 2000) matches nicely with the 4 Million (US) ton they mention as the total.

Looks like Tesla is correct.

hahaha. Looks like they changed it.  I posted this on another high traffic forum so I wouldn't be surprised if someone caught it or another person messaged Tesla.

Luckily, it hasn't updated on my laptop. My phone showed the new figures which were conveniently multiplied by 2.2. Here is the screenshot of my laptop.


zizek

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #1380 on: February 16, 2019, 10:46:33 PM »
<instead of just snipping, I've copied your comment to here; N.>
« Last Edit: February 17, 2019, 09:15:03 AM by Neven »

Rob Dekker

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #1381 on: February 17, 2019, 07:43:50 AM »
Huh? What 4 million (US) ton? 3,549,661.84 tons (copy/past isn't 4 million when I went to school)

Not sure why this is so hard for you guys :

https://www.tesla.com/carbonimpact

Latest count is 3,955,673 tons. Close enough to 4 Mton.

Quote
Is a US ton only 2,000 lbs? 

Yes. It's also called a 'short ton'.
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Rob Dekker

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #1382 on: February 17, 2019, 07:49:21 AM »
hahaha. Looks like they changed it.  I posted this on another high traffic forum so I wouldn't be surprised if someone caught it or another person messaged Tesla.

Luckily, it hasn't updated on my laptop. My phone showed the new figures which were conveniently multiplied by 2.2. Here is the screenshot of my laptop.



That screenshot is edited.
The line that says Tesla @ 2019 | Privacy & Legal | Contact | Careers ... comes at the end of the page. Not where you put it.

Why are you messing with the picture, and when exactly did you take this screenshot ?
« Last Edit: February 17, 2019, 08:08:23 AM by Rob Dekker »
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #1383 on: February 17, 2019, 03:41:23 PM »
So... no demand for the I-PACE? ???

Jaguar starts offering 0% financing on I-Pace to boost EV sales
https://electrek.co/2019/02/16/jaguar-i-pace-financing-deal/
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #1384 on: February 17, 2019, 08:54:34 PM »
The Tesla Model 3 European invasion has begun!
—- Germany:
Quote
Alex (@alex_avoigt) 2/15/19, 8:59 AM
Today in Weinstadt
Someone reported at the Delivery Center 3 Trailer been busy unloading Model 3s in 30 minutes and 2 other other came in right after.
Looks like they are running out of space using the lawn now...
https://twitter.com/alex_avoigt/status/1096408787014037504
Photos at the link.

Düsseldorf
[Service Center] is packed. 3s will be moved Mo to the new delivery center in Neuss Harbor. Employee said a huge load of 3s is already waiting there. Assume process changes & the strike in Seebrügge [Belgium] did cause to transfer 3s to SeC in [Germany] first while [Delivery Center] are not all ready yet.

Hamburg:
This Tuesday they had 18 M3s & today 25 are at the showroom. Team is really busy. A new Delivery Center is building up at the harbor who is connect by direct train track to Zeebrugge & once ready the real thing will happen until then just a few 100 will be delivered
https://twitter.com/alex_avoigt/status/1096461152522043392
McGyver: Do you have confirmation that they'll use the train for transport from Zeebrugge?
- Thats was the poster in the German Forum wrote based of first hand information from a Tesla employee.

Thomas (@Clutter_Monster) 2/16/19, 2:32 AM
#Model3 arrived in #Frankfurt
https://twitter.com/clutter_monster/status/1096673704765988865
Video walkby: 5 or 6 car-carriers line the street in Frankfurt!

   Even Europeans are surprised at the demand for the Model 3 in Germany:
Soycengiz (@Alpsoy66) 2/15/19, 2:11 PM
It was obvious that Model3 demand in Norway and Netherlands would be big, but Germany is the biggest surprise here. Germans r embracing model3 wholeheartedly. Lets c how France develops

Germany to extend electric company car tax incentives
Quote
(Reuters) - German Finance Minister Olaf Scholz plans to extend tax incentives for electric company cars, he told a newspaper on Saturday, the government's latest attempt to boost demand for clean vehicles.
Germany is trying to increase electric car sales in the wake of a diesel emissions cheating scandal that has engulfed its auto industry in the last three years.
"Half of all cars sold in Germany are company cars," Scholz told the Frankfurter Allgemeine Sonntagszeitung.

"So I have decided that we will not end tax support for electric cars and plug-in hybrid company cars in 2021 but extend them maybe over the whole decade," he said, adding that would help improve air quality and meet climate goals.
He added, however, that the rules for plug-in hybrids would be tightened, so that only cars that can travel on electric power further than they do today would be eligible. …
https://mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKCN1Q50JN

—- France:
Quote
Aurora (@AuroreVerdie) 2/15/19, 8:52 AM
Here are the first French Model 3 deliveries guys, it is starting
https://twitter.com/auroreverdie/status/1096406862864486400
Photos at the link.

—- Norway:
More And More Tesla Model 3 Reach Norway: Sales Imminent
https://teslamotorsclub.com/blog/2019/02/16/more-tesla-model-3-norway/

Quote
Lasse Edvardsen (@nasalahe) 2/15/19, 8:54 AM.
First official Model 3 customer cars registered in Norway 1 hour ago! teslastats.no #model3 #teslamodel3 #tesla #registration #norway
https://twitter.com/nasalahe/status/1096407454206881792
More stats at his link, including district of the registration. (Click on the buttons under the “All time highest registration“ data.)
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #1385 on: February 17, 2019, 08:59:49 PM »
—-  But, sad times for the traditional automakers!
 
European Car Sales Fall For Fifth Month In A Row
Quote
In keeping with the global stagnation that has enveloped the auto industry, the latest EU/EFTA vehicle registration data paints an ominous picture to start 2019 in Europe, where passenger car registrations dropped 4.6% year over year and sales declined in all of largest markets in Germany, France, the U.K., Italy and Spain.
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-02-15/european-car-sales-fall-fifth-month-row

In January 2019, BMW Group Sold Just 7,234 Plug-In EVs
https://insideevs.com/january-2019-bmw-group-sold-plug-ins/

Porsche asks UK buyers to commit to 10% no-deal Brexit surcharge
Company says move is a precaution in case WTO tariffs apply to EU-UK trade
https://amp.theguardian.com/business/2019/feb/15/porsche-asks-uk-buyers-to-commit-to-10-no-deal-brexit-surcharge
This could certainly have dampened demand for the I-PACE, at least temporarily.

Audi e-tron started production on Sept 3, 2018. (Per Electrek)
Almost 6 months later, still none in owners’ hands?
Even Tesla had delivered 1,772 Model 3 in its troubled first 6 months.
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #1386 on: February 17, 2019, 09:04:27 PM »
—- Meanwhile, in China:
Quote
Vincent (@vincent13031925) 2/15/19, 10:53 AM
The first batch @Tesla Model 3 (with MX & MS) in Tianjin port of China
Congratulation to Model 3 owners in China Delivery should start really soon for you guys! 恭喜恭喜!
$TSLA #Tesla #Model3 #China #TeslaChina #特斯拉
https://twitter.com/vincent13031925/status/1096437254283702272
Photos at the link.

—- And on the dock in San Francisco:
Quote
Still trying to get to the cool table. (@whitfletcher) 2/15/19, 4:34 PM
Friday 1:30 PM PST Pier 80 SFO. As close to capacity as I've ever seen, 3 trucks unloading simultaneously. Fairly large capacity at Fremont should they need it.
https://twitter.com/whitfletcher/status/1096523079470112769
Photos at the link.
< Did they always load all cars waiting on the lot/at the pier everytime a ship arrived or only a few of them?
- Never all but differing %. Never more than half of stock per ship, but this is hard to guage as deliveries happen continuously.

—- And on the internet:
Quote
Jordan Hart (@RealtyDayton) 2/16/19, 3:08 PM
My friend who drives an #Audi S7 just texted me a few questions about the @Tesla #model3 ... I simply passed some info along, like the performance specs, price, and my favorite features. 30 min later he sends me this picture.
#BigAuto needs to WAKE UP.
https://twitter.com/realtydayton/status/1096863922706104322
(Image at link: ApplePay receipt for Tesla order fee.)

- It's like I couldn't talk him out of it if I tried. It's a compounding domino effect... As more people own these cars and talk about them the people who were on fence before convert in minutes
< Happened to a friend of mine (my one and only referral). She pulled the trigger four months before she thought she would because she couldn’t wait.
<< That's how it happens. Next, he'l find out his spouse has stolen his 3 and he'll be buying a 2nd Tesla.
> This happened to me. We had another 3 within 2 months haha

—-Bonus Vid:  drivers in snowy climes swear by this method of helping to move your car through deep snow. ;D
https://twitter.com/_sjpeace_/status/1095515732161560576
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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #1387 on: February 17, 2019, 09:17:49 PM »
Quote
—- And on the internet:
Quote
Jordan Hart (@RealtyDayton) 2/16/19, 3:08 PM
My friend who drives an #Audi S7 just texted me a few questions about the @Tesla #model3 ... I simply passed some info along, like the performance specs, price, and my favorite features. 30 min later he sends me this picture.
#BigAuto needs to WAKE UP.
https://twitter.com/realtydayton/status/1096863922706104322
(Image at link: ApplePay receipt for Tesla order fee.)
...

Now compare (image below) the paperwork needed just to get on the reservation list for the Porsche Taycan:
Quote
Greg Wester (@gwestr) 1/16/19, 2:13 PM
Tesla took all of this information from the mobile web, with photo captures and e-signatures and Apple Pay. They really don't get it...
https://twitter.com/gwestr/status/1085616153131507712
Text image below.
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BeeKnees

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #1388 on: February 17, 2019, 09:22:27 PM »

So good job zizek, good job lurk, and good job Rob ... winners one and all.

Anyone want to buy a new electric car from us? You can trust us. We all do Math much better than Elon Musk can.

ROFL

Looks to me like the totals at the bottom of the pages are static and the total at the top is dynamic.

We have no idea how old the figures in the tables are to know how they relate, but as one set has half the value of the other then it seems pretty obvious which page is more recent and which one hasn't been kept up to date.

zizek

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #1389 on: February 17, 2019, 09:29:22 PM »
hahaha. Looks like they changed it.  I posted this on another high traffic forum so I wouldn't be surprised if someone caught it or another person messaged Tesla.

Luckily, it hasn't updated on my laptop. My phone showed the new figures which were conveniently multiplied by 2.2. Here is the screenshot of my laptop.



That screenshot is edited.
The line that says Tesla @ 2019 | Privacy & Legal | Contact | Careers ... comes at the end of the page. Not where you put it.

Why are you messing with the picture, and when exactly did you take this screenshot ?
God Rob. Have you never been on a website and the tables have broken. When a website isn't optimized to a particular browser size and it messes with the layout? Is this your first time on the internet?

For you, what I have done, I have taken a video of me going to the website on two browsers and showing you the original numbers. Of course, it is possible that I could have fabricated the video, but you'll have to trust me when I say I really don't have that sort of time or skills necessary for such a trivial outcome.

Here's the thing, I would post it right now, but I'm aboard a vessel and data is luxury. So for me take make it worthwhile I'd like to offer a wager.  If my a post is a clear fabrication, then I will donate $50 to an charity and organization of your choice. And vice versa if what I post seems legitimate.  We can let the other users here be the jury. How about it?

zizek

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #1390 on: February 17, 2019, 10:28:18 PM »

So good job zizek, good job lurk, and good job Rob ... winners one and all.

Anyone want to buy a new electric car from us? You can trust us. We all do Math much better than Elon Musk can.

ROFL

Looks to me like the totals at the bottom of the pages are static and the total at the top is dynamic.

We have no idea how old the figures in the tables are to know how they relate, but as one set has half the value of the other then it seems pretty obvious which page is more recent and which one hasn't been kept up to date.

The lbs were changed from a multiple of 1000 to a multiple of 2200. Those numbers are pretty convenient

Rob Dekker

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #1391 on: February 18, 2019, 08:17:45 AM »

So good job zizek, good job lurk, and good job Rob ... winners one and all.

Anyone want to buy a new electric car from us? You can trust us. We all do Math much better than Elon Musk can.

ROFL

Looks to me like the totals at the bottom of the pages are static and the total at the top is dynamic.

We have no idea how old the figures in the tables are to know how they relate, but as one set has half the value of the other then it seems pretty obvious which page is more recent and which one hasn't been kept up to date.

The lbs were changed from a multiple of 1000 to a multiple of 2200. Those numbers are pretty convenient

Are you and Lurk in Canada ?
Because I can't see the "https://www.tesla.com/en_CA/carbonimpact" web site.
It just forwards to https://www.tesla.com/carbonimpact.

But from the 'cached' sites, I see that that Canadian web site incorrectly prints 'lbs' where it should print 'kg'. I've sent email to Tesla about this.
This is our planet. This is our time.
Let's not waste either.

BeeKnees

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #1392 on: February 18, 2019, 02:23:41 PM »
Are you and Lurk in Canada ?
Because I can't see the "https://www.tesla.com/en_CA/carbonimpact" web site.
It just forwards to https://www.tesla.com/carbonimpact.

But from the 'cached' sites, I see that that Canadian web site incorrectly prints 'lbs' where it should print 'kg'. I've sent email to Tesla about this.

You can see the first link if you go incognito and prevent tesla from picking up location

magnamentis

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #1393 on: February 18, 2019, 10:02:34 PM »
in memory of the recent audi e-tron test that came up with a range of >300km at temps of -6C, wet roads, party and heated cabin to comfort levels, the first test of a tesla 3 by "Auto-Motor & Sport", the leading german car testing etc. magazine, came up with a range of 276 km as compared to the 530km WLTP mark at temperatures of around 5C, damp but not wet roads etc. for the rest that first test went well, i just wanted to mention this shortly to point at the huge difference between cold an warm conditions and that in mind the e-tron should easily reach his goal of over 400km at the 23C temps that are grounds for WLTP measurements.

there will soon be more, especially thorough over all tests and comparison with comparable ICE vehicles as well as durability etc. i'll keep an eye on it because german magazines apply very high standards to sometimes even IMO minor details, hence it won't take long until we get a first really indicating comparison of model 3 with cars we are used to and learn to love, tech, comfort and reliability wise.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2019, 10:14:37 PM by magnamentis »

Sigmetnow

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #1394 on: February 19, 2019, 12:28:56 AM »
Not a fraud.  Not a scam.  Generated about $4.5 million in revenue for its owners during the fourth quarter by helping to balance the freaking power grid!

Tesla's big battery in Australia made another $4 million on its way to pay for itself
Quote
The government also participated in the funding and they shouldn’t be disappointed in their investment since a recent report showed that the project saved $40 million on the energy during its first year of operation alone.
https://electrek.co/2019/02/18/tesla-big-battery-pay-for-itself/
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

oren

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #1395 on: February 19, 2019, 02:40:26 AM »
I believe contracts for reserve capacity are also done with peaker plants, not just in Australia but also in the US.

SteveMDFP

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #1396 on: February 19, 2019, 04:40:48 AM »
I believe contracts for reserve capacity are also done with peaker plants, not just in Australia but also in the US.

Certainly, and it makes sense for all parties to pay for available reserve power, even if it doesn't get used.  Utilities have to be able to meet peak demand, or there are brownouts or blackouts.  There's a genuine need and economic value to this on-demand reserve. 

Sigmetnow

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #1397 on: February 19, 2019, 03:12:38 PM »
From the above article:
Quote
Most of the revenue is still coming from the Powerpack system’s participation in FCAS (frequency control and ancillary services) market, which generally consisted of large and costly gas generators and steam turbines kicking in to compensate for the loss of power.

It’s important to understand that the battery’s FCAS abilities help to prevent the grid from going down on a ~daily basis, which is even more valuable than the extremely rare need to be the hours-long primary power-provider often imagined as the battery’s sole purpose.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2019, 03:19:09 PM by Sigmetnow »
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

GoSouthYoungins

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #1398 on: February 19, 2019, 07:07:06 PM »
http://ir.tesla.com/sec-filings/sec-filing/10-k/0001564590-19-003165

Alright, 10K is out. And it is obvious that PwC is going to be playing the role of Arthur Andersen after signing off on all this nonsense. But let's see what Tesla admits to:

-Loan due at the end of Dec was extended to end of Jan on Dec 19th. On Jan 30th it was extended into April. (this is Solar City debt).

-There is still no Chinese funding. (And just FYI, there is nothing in built yet...just a muddy field.)

-Tesla claims to be on track with employing ppl at the Giga2. (Plain and egregious lie.)

-TESLA FINALLY ADMITS TO BEING UNDER BOTH SEC AND DOJ INVESTIGATION!!! (regardless of what Neil thinks.)

-$80 million in inventory was reclassified as Plant, Property, and Equipment in Q4. (Avoiding write-downs.)

-In December Tesla monetized over $300 million from some sort of solar asset to free up some cash. (Honestly, I don't understand the transaction, but it seems to be Tesla scrapping the bottom on the barrel for assets to collateralize for cash. In case anyone is unaware, they have pledged pretty much everything they "own" to creditors. My guess is that they took a loan backed by solar panels that are currently leased out. Total guess. If anyone knows more, please do tell.)


In other news:

-new estimates of Tesla US inventory have grown to over 10,000.

-it has become known that AutoPilot is actually more dangerous than no AutoPilot

-and in Q4 the largest institutional investor and the institutional investor with the highest price target BOTH sold half of their shares...(in general, something like 80% of the largest institutional investors reduced their holdings...like I have always said, it will be predominately Musk and his fanbois holding the bag when the stock price hits single digits and then TSLAQ)
« Last Edit: February 19, 2019, 07:27:48 PM by GoSouthYoungins »
big time oops

oren

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #1399 on: February 19, 2019, 10:24:18 PM »
Quote
In other news:

-new estimates of Tesla US inventory have grown to over 10,000.

-it has become known that AutoPilot is actually more dangerous than no AutoPilot
I have no knowledge of the other info you posted, but these two pieces are from FUD sources as far as I am aware, certainly the second one.