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Sigmetnow

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #1650 on: March 14, 2019, 08:25:07 PM »
Monthly records being broken.
Quote
Lasse Edvardsen (@nasalahe) 3/14/19, 4:47 AM
Model 3 registration in Norway just beat the old Model S record from March 2014. Most registered @Tesla in one month, and we are not even half into March! If they continue at this pace they will beat the record of most registered car, of any kind, registered in one Month! #tesla
https://twitter.com/nasalahe/status/1106114669620748288
This record is actually held by another EV. Nissan Leaf with 2389 cars registered in March 2018.
Data image below.

Quote
Lasse Edvardsen (@nasalahe) 3/14/19, 2:56 PM
And more cars arriving today... Video: Bjarne Henrik Tovang
https://twitter.com/nasalahe/status/1106267845107818498
Image below; Video clip at the link pans across the dock and into the ship

——
Quote
Vincent (@vincent13031925) 3/14/19, 12:01 PM
Tesla Model 3 massive delivery in China will start on March 15th.
All/Most of the shipments to China recently will finish delivery before the end of Q1
https://twitter.com/vincent13031925/status/1106223767557038086
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

Rob Dekker

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #1651 on: March 15, 2019, 07:56:05 AM »
Just watched the Model Y introduction, with Elon's overview of how we got here.

I am not sure how anyone can still believe that Tesla is anything else but a world-changing success.

In 2008 they built one car. Elon's roadster.
After ten year they produced more than half a million EVs, and they are still ramping up.

Elon stressed that to design a car is one thing. But to design a factory that mass produces that car is something much, much harder.

They did it, and the Fremont factory now employs 10s of thousands of people and robots, and they even had to build a huge tent on the parking to to accommodate the production lines necessary for the Model 3.
 
But that's not enough for a successful EV company.
They needed about 50 GWh/year of battery production, which is more that the entire global production of rechargeable batteries.
So they did that. They built Gigafactory 2 in Nevada. Which is already one of the largest buildings (by footprint) in the world and is still expanding as we speak.

But that was not enough either.
Tariffs hit Tesla TWICE when exporting cars to China, so they decided to set up Gigafactory 3.
This production facility will make batteries AND cars and it is going to be larger than Gigafactory 2 and the Fremont plant COMBINED.

It will serve the larger China market and AFAIK it will be doubling Tesla's production capacity.

Tesla will this year also be spending more resources on the solar roofs project, which was put on hold a bit in 2018 while cranking up Model 3 production.

And, oh yeah, Tesla was running a profit over the past two quarters, and it looks like that will continue.

If all that is not glory, then heck I would not know what would be.

Oh. I almost forgot : Tesla introduced Model Y today :

This is our planet. This is our time.
Let's not waste either.

NeilT

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #1652 on: March 15, 2019, 03:09:44 PM »
I am not sure how anyone can still believe that Tesla is anything else but a world-changing success.

I don't know how people believe that NASA didn't make it to the moon, that the dollar is going to collapse shortly or that an unknown massive asteroid is going to hit the planet (every month, ongoing).

The only thing I can think of is that you put the blinkers on, stick your head in a box that runs anti Tesla information constantly then repeat the mantra "Tesla is going to collapse", constantly.

Perhaps that would do it.

Tesla bears short Tesla to make money, not because the company is going to collapse but because it is not quite robust enough that nobody will believe it is going to collapse.  One of the most shorted stocks on the market is Google.  Tell me it's going to collapse tomorrow if you want; I won't believe it.
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #1653 on: March 16, 2019, 02:26:19 PM »
So Tesla improves upon the best-selling EV in the world with the Model Y, giving it 66 cubic feet (1.9 cubic meters) of storage space, an optional third row for up to 7 seats, range up to 300 miles/483 km for $47k (230 miles/370km for $39k), a panoramic glass roof, world-leading, constantly-improving Tesla tech, and expected 5-star crash safety ratings in every category — and the general reaction is “Ho hum, is that all?”

I guess this is the new normal, then.  Other EV makers need to step up their game!
Quote
Walter MacVane (@EcoHeliGuy) 3/15/19, 2:26 AM
At 66 cubic feet, the Model Y slots in larger then the Lexus 350 RX(59), BMW X6(60). Lands halfway between the Q5(60) and Q7(72). With the optional 3rd row it’s closest to the Jeep Grand Cherokee (68) and Nissan Murano (67)
https://twitter.com/ecoheliguy/status/1106441420691267585

Quote
Tom Randall (@tsrandall) 3/15/19, 12:18 AM
The new Model Y looks sharp, taking some of the best elements of the Y and X. I wouldn't be surprised if the range is a bit longer by the time it comes out—Musk suggested as much.
https://twitter.com/tsrandall/status/1106409203068030976

——
And, it turns out, there was “one more thing.”  After the webcast ended, they flashed a teaser image of the upcoming Tesla pickup truck!
https://electrek.co/2019/03/15/tesla-cyberpunk-electric-pickup-truck-teaser-elon-musk/
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #1654 on: March 16, 2019, 02:48:50 PM »
About the $2,500 paid when placing a Model Y order (all major credit cards and PayPal accepted!):

Yes, it’s refundable, any time up to when the car is delivered.
Yes, the amount is credited to the final pre-order price of your car.

No, Tesla isn’t counting it as revenue until the car is delivered.

https://www.tesla.com/order/download-order-agreement?redirect=no&country=US&model_code=my
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #1655 on: March 16, 2019, 06:30:43 PM »
How Tesla Proved Critics Wrong
Quote
People have said pretty much everything about Tesla. Some said the company was selling its vehicles at a loss and would never be able to make those vehicles under the right conditions, or fast enough. Others said Tesla’s founder, Elon Musk, was crazy and would lead the company to ruin. In early 2018, one car industry veteran even called on collectors to buy the Model S “before the company goes belly up.”

But then Tesla’s numbers started to look more promising. In its 2018 Q3 report, Tesla boosted its share price and gave the NASDAQ its best day in months. The company had also fulfilled its production and distribution objectives during Q3, showing every sign of staying in the black (at least until it had to pay interest on loans during the first quarter of 2019).

The Q3 earnings report doesn’t seem to be an exception, either: Q4 was also profitable and everything indicates that Tesla has found a stable way to generate profits. What’s more, Tesla is no longer an industry quirk: Many people have laughed at its production difficulties (while grossly underestimating the achievement of moving from a standing start to mass producing 80,000 vehicles per quarter). But the company is now outselling Porsche, Mercedes Benz, and BMW. This makes Tesla the best-selling domestically-made car company in the United States. The Tesla is also more technologically advanced than any other car on the market. It’s also cheaper and much safer to drive.

Those spectacular Q3 results confounded analysts’ forecasts, proving what some of us have been saying for a while now: Few can understand the strategic vision of a company that is prepared to take risks to change the world. Virtually everyone was wrong about Tesla’s finances and its future. Now, those analysts are scratching their heads and trying to understand what happened. This is because people can’t get their heads around the idea that a company’s customers would volunteer to help distribute its vehicles, contributing to a project they consider themselves part of. Elon Musk will doubtlessly bask in the warm glow of his “I-told-you-so” triumph for months to come. He understands that people want to be part of a project that’s not about selling cars but changing the world.

Few can understand the strategic vision of a company that is prepared to take risks to change the world.
...
Tesla’s profit margin for the Model 3 is 20 percent, well above the industry average in its segment. Overnight, Tesla’s prospects for growth and profitability seem to have become not only credible but probable (regardless of the belief in some quarters that Musk is crazy). I say the world would be a better place with a few more crazy people like him in positions of leadership.

Everyone was wrong about Tesla. In fact, the best thing about all this is that we’re not really talking about an automotive company here. Sure, some people still insist on calling Tesla a car manufacturer that’s not doing too badly, thanks to an innovative road map. But it turns out that the keys to Tesla’s future are batteries, not cars. The cost of batteries continues to fall as more and more batteries are produced and sold, not only for vehicles but also for homes and storage plants. Demand for solar power installations is growing consistently and thus, Tesla has miraculously found itself in one of the fastest-growing sectors in the world. Evidence shows that long-standing environmental concerns about traditional car manufacturing are fully justified. Suddenly, people are seeing the many years of hard work behind Tesla’s overnight success.

In other words: People who say it can’t be done should stop interrupting those who are doing it.
https://medium.com/s/story/guess-what-everyone-was-wrong-about-tesla-8e7da8e866bb
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #1656 on: March 17, 2019, 03:11:32 PM »
China: Gigafactory 3 update
Dozens of pile-drivers have been working day and night for weeks to prepare the site for construction.  Now the above-ground construction really gets underway.

The first steel, prefabricated load-bearing column has been erected and duly celebrated.  Visible progress will happen quickly now!
Interesting to note that this phase of Giga3 looks quite like the facility Tesla is building in Lathrop, California….


Quote
Vincent (@vincent13031925) 3/16/19, 4:05 PM
Now Tesla Shanghai Gigafactory construction is moving to the next level!
Translation: “Congratulation to Tesla Gigafactory GF3 Shanghai for successfully installing the first steel pillar in phase one” …
https://twitter.com/vincent13031925/status/1107009955071029248
Image below.

Quote
Kelvin Yang (@KelvinYang7) 3/16/19, 3:30 PM
Some additional information:
This first column is for General Assembly building. 11.5 meters,10.8 tons.
General Assembly building is 450m x 48m x 15m in size.
https://twitter.com/kelvinyang7/status/1107001259909877761

Giga 3 rendering below is from the Tesla Model Y unveiling on March 14.
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GoSouthYoungins

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #1657 on: March 18, 2019, 10:23:58 PM »
Cuz a company that has money needs to ask its employees to volunteer?


https://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-asks-employees-help-delivering-30000-cars-end-quarter-2019-3
big time oops

Archimid

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #1658 on: March 19, 2019, 01:40:54 AM »
If after production and deliver hell of last year and continued layoffs they can still get their employees to volunteer for extra work then Tesla's glory is secured. The employees understand the importance of Tesla's mission and the sacrifices needed to succeed.

I  also hope Tesla taps volunteers from the general public. They should formalize it and create a volunteer corp that can be properly trained to do more than just talk with other customers.
I am an energy reservoir seemingly intent on lowering entropy for self preservation.

rboyd

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #1659 on: March 19, 2019, 02:13:00 AM »
The share price looks like it is heading for a retest of the $250 level which has held for quite a while, if that breaks we could quickly be at $200. That would start to severely limit what funding options, and the price of options (e.g. interest rate) that, are available to the company.

The outcomes from now on are very binary (rapid onset of financial troubles vs. gaining real profitability) with the company on the knife edge.

Sigmetnow

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #1660 on: March 19, 2019, 02:46:14 PM »
If after production and deliver hell of last year and continued layoffs they can still get their employees to volunteer for extra work then Tesla's glory is secured. The employees understand the importance of Tesla's mission and the sacrifices needed to succeed.

I  also hope Tesla taps volunteers from the general public. They should formalize it and create a volunteer corp that can be properly trained to do more than just talk with other customers.

If Tesla hired people for every end-of-quarter push, bears would be screaming about the ‘cash burn.’  Tesla is not your ordinary 9 to 5 job; employees realize extraordinary efforts are an important part of what makes Tesla a success.

"We have to deliver 30,000 more cars in next 15 days."

This will happen.  Some delivery centers are handling 200 cars a day now. Q1 will set another record.

Quote
Dennis Chang (@infoxer) 3/15/19, 6:32 AM
Video from one of two delivery center in Shanghai, as the hold lifted, Tesla is busy with delivery by both on site and truck. It’s said around 200 cars delivered on Friday.
https://twitter.com/infoxer/status/1106503316123508736

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zizek

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #1661 on: March 19, 2019, 07:12:41 PM »
I  also hope Tesla taps volunteers from the general public. They should formalize it and create a volunteer corp that can be properly trained to do more than just talk with other customers.
You have to be trolling. This can't be real

rboyd

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #1662 on: March 19, 2019, 08:21:37 PM »
I think it’s fairly obvious. After several weird moves this quarter, I believe Tesla is under a pretty severe cash crunch — likely  due in part to higher than expected costs of bringing Model 3 to Europe and China.

Even the fanboys at Electrek seem to be coming around to the reality of liquidity issues at Tesla.

https://electrek.co/2019/03/19/tesla-delays-price-increase-boost-orders-end-quarter/

GoSouthYoungins

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #1663 on: March 20, 2019, 03:53:17 PM »
Due to unusually high volume, Tesla was unable to process all orders by midnight on Monday, so the slight price rise on vehicles is postponed to midnight Wednesday

https://twitter.com/Tesla/status/1108007729170255875


Furniture sale! Yesterday's one day only sale was toooooo crowded to make all sales during business hours. Get these amazing deals TODAY as well. Last chance ever!

https://twatter.com/TeslaBullTards/status/420lol6969giggles


<snip, none of the veiled stuff, thank you; N.>

Never have I ever...seen a so obviously BK company that still has millions of believers and a 40B market cap.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2019, 11:29:32 PM by Neven »
big time oops

GoSouthYoungins

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #1664 on: March 20, 2019, 03:56:50 PM »
I  also hope Tesla taps volunteers from the general public. They should formalize it and create a volunteer corp that can be properly trained to do more than just talk with other customers.
You have to be trolling. This can't be real

Have you ever met someone who is an overt religious fanatic? At first it doesn't seem real. But it is.

This is one of those rare opportunities you can make a bunch of money betting that zealots don't have balanced judgement.
big time oops

Sigmetnow

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #1665 on: March 20, 2019, 04:00:05 PM »
Quote
Tesla (@Tesla) 3/19/19, 10:10 AM
Due to unusually high volume, Tesla was unable to process all orders by midnight on Monday, so the slight price rise on vehicles is postponed to midnight Wednesday
https://twitter.com/tesla/status/1108007729170255875
 
Quote
TeslaOpinion (@TeslaOpinion) 3/19/19, 3:49 AM
Tesla:
~$3.7B of cash at Dec. 31, more than enough for the bond - now paid
$2B in free CASH flow in 6 months while also GROWING TRIPLE-digits year-over-year!
UNMATCHED even in software, let alone ANY hardware industry,
IN HISTORY.
https://twitter.com/teslaopinion/status/1107911982882000896
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #1666 on: March 20, 2019, 04:10:57 PM »
”We have a very good electric car here.  Maybe the best of them all.”

Norway’s version of the US AAA raves about the Tesla Model 3.
Quote
Tesla Driver (@m_xalher) 3/19/19, 7:07 AM
Norway's NAF (= AAA) review of Model 3 says it has "hysterical amounts of power",
competitors are "pre-historic",
car scores highest ever for any EV,
and arrives "way too early for the competitors".
https://twitter.com/m_xalher/status/1107961786626650113
Headline in the link [below] reads "Tesla is crushing the competitors with their Model 3".
Headline of article reads "All good things are 3" (which is the Norwegian version of "all good things come in threes").

Tesla smadrer konkurrentene med sin Model 3
https://www.motor.no/tester/biltester/tesla-model-3-2019/

——-
New record achieved for daily Tesla registrations in Norway yesterday: 399.  (366 were Model 3.)
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #1667 on: March 20, 2019, 05:40:17 PM »
By request:  Tesla Dog Mode.

The Dodo (@dodo) 3/20/19, 12:00 PM
This car saves dogs’ lives
https://twitter.com/dodo/status/1108397787950075905
3-minute video at the above link: Dog Mode in action. And dogs needing rescue from hot cars. 

Tesla’s vid: 
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Neven

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #1668 on: March 20, 2019, 11:48:50 PM »
I like to see pro- and anti-propaganda in this topic. The dog stuff is definitely propaganda, haha, but I agree it is also off-topic, as the glory/failure doesn't hinge on this type of propaganda. Tough call, but it's Sig, so I'll let it stand.

Tell you what, I'll let your next off-topic stand as well!  ;) ;D
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GoSouthYoungins

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #1669 on: March 21, 2019, 01:53:33 AM »
big time oops

GoSouthYoungins

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #1670 on: March 21, 2019, 01:58:27 AM »
This is a little off topic. But I happen to have a buy out bid for a company I run. The buyout values the business at $345 billion. Currently market cap is $20. So, needless to say, this is a great opportunity!!!!! Personal message me if you have interest in this amazing deal. Oh ya, I almost forgot...the vision for this business is to make fossil fuels irrelevant, AND to make life of Venus easy. Thanks for fighting the EVIL PEOPLE. Love y'all.
big time oops

NeilT

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #1671 on: March 21, 2019, 09:13:47 AM »
If after production and deliver hell of last year and continued layoffs they can still get their employees to volunteer for extra work then Tesla's glory is secured.

I've mentioned this before but I'm pretty certain Tesla is using Agile Manufacturing.

The goal is "fail faster".  Not something you traditionally hear in a manufacturing world.  But the idea is that you get all the failures out of the system early and fix them so that you don't encounter them again.

In this case Tesla would have employed short term contract staff to remediate the issues of production and delivery hell whilst it worked out how to resolve those issues.  Once resolved the short term staff would no longer be required.

As Agile is cyclical, Tesla would be expected to re-employ, at key stages (such as Model Y start up), in order to meet the goals, whilst working to remove those new staff from the delivery chain later, once the lessons had been learned and the solutions provided.

Even in IT the main incumbents don't really "get" Agile.  How could investors in bricks and mortar manufacturing understand?

I expect that Model Y, Gigafactory3 and the 500k vehicle sales will all pass without a recurrence of any of the "hells" already seen.

Whether new "hells" occur is another matter.  The whole point of Agile is that once you have learned the lesson you fix it and move on.  My brother had a saying in one of his programmes.  "We enjoyed making that mistake so much we decided to do it ALL over again".

Ask yourself this.  Of the key issues already seen, how many of them have recurred?  Now contrast that with the traditional vehicle market.  Who seem to be able to make the same mistakes every decade/other decade over and over again, like a metronome.
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Neven

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #1672 on: March 21, 2019, 09:23:03 AM »
Free off topic posts!!!

Let's make this day an Off-topic Day!  :D

This thread only, of course.

Put on your boxing gloves and bash at it. What do you think of Elon Musk? He's great/insane, right?  ;)
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NeilT

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #1673 on: March 21, 2019, 09:25:13 AM »
I think it’s fairly obvious. After several weird moves this quarter, I believe Tesla is under a pretty severe cash crunch — likely  due in part to higher than expected costs of bringing Model 3 to Europe and China.

Even the fanboys at Electrek seem to be coming around to the reality of liquidity issues at Tesla.

https://electrek.co/2019/03/19/tesla-delays-price-increase-boost-orders-end-quarter/

So Tesla has gone from burning a billion a quarter to two quarters of profit, paid back over a billion in debt and, still, Tesla is going to fail.

I wonder when these "Anal"ists will realise that Tesla does things they don't expect because Tesla does not operate like a normal manufacturing company.  Perhaps they might want to try and understand Tesla the company and not keep on trying to compare it with competitors who are totally and completely different (and also not keeping up either).

<snark>Unless it was missed in the 6pt text on page 97, the whole world economy is contracting slightly, countries are (again), flirting with recession or depression and it is a very difficult time for manufacturing companies.</snark>

For those who take an interest, the Chinese growth has stalled, the EU is struggling badly with growth at all and, overall, the entire world economy is slightly muted and the US low grade trade war with most of its suppliers is starting to have a protracted effect.  In that environment Tesla would be insane to carry on as if nothing had changed.  The fact that Tesla competitors are, essentially, insane, by this measure, is not the problem of Tesla.

The fact that Analysts can't add one and one without coming to 3.14159 is a problem for Tesla because they have to work around the negative impact of the analysis.
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NeilT

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #1674 on: March 21, 2019, 09:31:30 AM »
Put on your boxing gloves and bash at it. What do you think of Elon Musk? He's great/insane, right?  ;)

Musk is different in a world where it is acceptable to all hug each other whilst drowning; rather than swimming as hard as you can.

That world tries to destroy the different!

The King really is NAKED!  But the SEC will try and destroy him for saying so.

The SEC allows people to gamble with the shares of investors to make a fast buck.  Allowing that they may cause havoc in the process.  When the person who stands to lose their shirt fights back, the SEC attacks the defender.

This is the crazy world we live in.  If Musk is crazy, then the rest of us must be the only sane people on the planet....

When Tesla manufactures 550,000 cars, this year, the SEC will still be trying to remove Musk for unapproved tweets.
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oren

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #1675 on: March 21, 2019, 10:03:57 AM »
Musk: fiercely competitive, personal vanity, childish, erratic, hard to admit personal mistakes, will lie when finds it "necessary". Bad public speaker.
OTOH, genius at thinking out of the box and "design by first principles". Knows his business and his physics. Does not give up when faced with impossible odds. A geek to be proud of. And my wife would add: the only one who is actually trying to do something, and who gives hope (for which he is hated both by those that wait for a revolution and by those who want no change at all).

b_lumenkraft

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #1676 on: March 21, 2019, 12:26:29 PM »
One of the dire and real issues are billions of combustion engines out there producing CO2 in huge amounts.

Without Tesla successfully showing the potential of electric vehicles, we would not see the EV revolution we are in now.

Call it "hype", i think calling it "change" is more accurate.

ruffed

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #1677 on: March 21, 2019, 01:22:29 PM »
The Hype over Musk and Tesla is a distraction from the real issues confronting everyone.

May as well spend your time reading posts on WUWT for all the good Musk will ever achieve. A waste of time and space. A massive distraction. A Lemon Topic.

As my wife says, "The words you use are a reflection upon yourself."

Sigmetnow

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #1678 on: March 21, 2019, 02:08:47 PM »
I like to see pro- and anti-propaganda in this topic. The dog stuff is definitely propaganda, haha, but I agree it is also off-topic, as the glory/failure doesn't hinge on this type of propaganda. Tough call, but it's Sig, so I'll let it stand.
...

Hey, Neven.  My point (and I had several ;) ) was that people will chose a car because of what it means to their pets.  A Tesla customer asked Elon on Twitter for a new feature for his car.  And Elon said, Make It So.  Not just for future Teslas, but to all existing ones, as well!  For free!  Name any other car company which does that!  One more reason people love Tesla.

Subaru has spent millions of dollars since at least 2013 running ads featuring dogs in their cars, with the tagline, “Dog tested.  Dog approved.”  It works for them. But unlike Subaru, Tesla doesn’t need to spend a dime on advertising to bring in new customers attracted by this new feature.  The media does it for them.  Tesla win-win!




« Last Edit: March 21, 2019, 02:14:57 PM by Sigmetnow »
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GoSouthYoungins

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #1679 on: March 21, 2019, 04:27:39 PM »
I think it’s fairly obvious. After several weird moves this quarter, I believe Tesla is under a pretty severe cash crunch — likely  due in part to higher than expected costs of bringing Model 3 to Europe and China.

Even the fanboys at Electrek seem to be coming around to the reality of liquidity issues at Tesla.

https://electrek.co/2019/03/19/tesla-delays-price-increase-boost-orders-end-quarter/

I wonder when these "Anal"ists will realise that Tesla does things they don't expect because Tesla does not operate like a normal manufacturing company.

You don't seem to get it. This "Analist" you claim doesn't get Tesla IS NOT AN ANALYST. He is a Tesla shill. A paid shill. He is not technically on Tesla's payroll, but he makes money via the referral program. That is the whole point of his blog.

Also, he is admittedly a hyper-uber-super fan of Tesla. A total devotee. This is why it is noteworthy. Even he thinks their is a cash crunch now.

But you may be right. Tesla can't have a cash crunch because they are too AGILE. Their financing is AGILE. Their interpretation of the law is AGILE. FSD's reliability is also AGILE.  Tesla's promises to customers and employees, AGILE.
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NeilT

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #1680 on: March 21, 2019, 08:22:24 PM »
You don't seem to get it. This "Analist" you claim doesn't get Tesla IS NOT AN ANALYST. He is a Tesla shill. A paid shill. He is not technically on Tesla's payroll, but he makes money via the referral program. That is the whole point of his blog.

I wasn't just talking about shills.  I was talking about the industry in general.
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NeilT

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #1681 on: March 21, 2019, 08:33:15 PM »

I only have one point. It's a car manufacturer.

Musk bought a car company. They build cars and they sell them, hopefully for a net profit.

Wrong again.  Tesla is a blend of car manufacturing and energy supplier and a manufacturer of micro generating equipment to allow people to generate their own energy.  Plus a manufacturer of energy storage systems.

Traditional "car manufacturers", don't supply fuel, don't create fuel and sure as hell don't sell cracking systems or stills to allow the customers to create their own fuel.

The "traditional" car manufacturers are trying to work a deal so they don't have to manufacture their own batteries, they just want to buy them, ready made.

Calling Tesla a "car manufacturer" (especially as they are also moving into commercial vehicles), is a quick way to self confusion and making the wrong decisions....

But, hey, what do I know....
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oren

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #1682 on: March 21, 2019, 10:18:47 PM »
Quote
You don't seem to get it. This "Analist" you claim doesn't get Tesla IS NOT AN ANALYST. He is a Tesla shill. A paid shill. He is not technically on Tesla's payroll, but he makes money via the referral program. That is the whole point of his blog. 

Also, he is admittedly a hyper-uber-super fan of Tesla. A total devotee. This is why it is noteworthy. Even he thinks their is a cash crunch now.
In case anyone is wondering, the person in question (Fred Lambert of Electrek) is no longer gaining monetary benefits from the referral program, as it was cancelled. And (unsurprisingly) he is no longer a hyper-uber-super fan, but just a regular guy with opinions. So you could say he was sort of a paid shill and acted accordingly, but OTOH you can't say his opinion is noteworthy because he is a hyper-uber-super fan. Because he isn't, not anymore.

zizek

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #1683 on: March 21, 2019, 11:13:43 PM »

I only have one point. It's a car manufacturer.

Musk bought a car company. They build cars and they sell them, hopefully for a net profit.

Wrong again.  Tesla is a blend of car manufacturing and energy supplier and a manufacturer of micro generating equipment to allow people to generate their own energy.  Plus a manufacturer of energy storage systems.

Traditional "car manufacturers", don't supply fuel, don't create fuel and sure as hell don't sell cracking systems or stills to allow the customers to create their own fuel.

The "traditional" car manufacturers are trying to work a deal so they don't have to manufacture their own batteries, they just want to buy them, ready made.

Calling Tesla a "car manufacturer" (especially as they are also moving into commercial vehicles), is a quick way to self confusion and making the wrong decisions....

But, hey, what do I know....
How many times do I have to tell you: Tesla does not manufacturer the cells, it is Panasonic.   Why is this so difficult for you to understand. This is no different than any other competing auto manufacturer.
And your metaphor is awful. The processing of liquid fuels would be the EV equivalent of electricity production like hydro. Tesla does not do these things, except for solar city and it's amazing dozens of customers.


Quote
Wrong again.  Tesla is a blend of car manufacturing and energy supplier and a manufacturer of micro generating equipment to allow people to generate their own energy.  Plus a manufacturer of energy storage systems.

Traditional "car manufacturers", don't supply fuel, don't create fuel and sure as hell don't sell cracking systems or stills to allow the customers to create their own fuel.

hmmm, except for almost every asian car manufacturer conglomerate are involved in power generation at scales far larger than Tesla. And then you have the likes of bmw, rolls-royce, jaguar. Almost every car manufacturer has direct involvement in power, except for the dumbass american companies. It's hilarious how wrong you are. Mitsubishi literally manufactures upstream, midstream, and downstream oil processing systems. Which completely contradicts what you are saying

You are so wrong about everything. You prance around these forums acting like some sort of authority on manufacturing. But you are so consistently wrong it hurts. I remember you lecturing me once about the "wisdom" of people like yourself and your generation. But if this is what "wisdom" looks like, well no wonder this world is so fucked.

zizek

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #1684 on: March 21, 2019, 11:20:36 PM »
Archimid is going to be ecstatic to learn that Freemont is an illegal sweatshop.

https://twitter.com/PlainSite/status/1108759052455010306


Quote
This was ongoing as $TSLA was telling CAEATFA (State of CA) that Model 3 production would create California jobs. In reality, it was filling some jobs by allegedly hiring contractors to illegally bring Eastern European workers into California to pay them less than minimum wage.


Sigmetnow

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #1685 on: March 22, 2019, 12:31:57 AM »
Let's make this day an Off-topic Day!  :D

This thread only, of course. ...

Tesla’s amazing success is increasingly shown by its growing dominance over legacy ICE car companies like BMW, which are now stumbling badly.  BMW 3 series cars are swapped for Model 3 as one of the top five trade-ins, and the Model 3 now outsells BMW’s entire lineup!

Yet, few dare to name the company that has single-handedly disrupted the entire industry.  To wit:

BMW is in trouble.  It recently warned that its profits this year will decline by more than 10 percent.  But in its litany of reasons why, its spokesmen (or, the writers of this autonews article) do not mention Tesla even once!

BMW will step up cost-cutting after warning of profit decline
Quote
March 20, 2019 05:36 AM updated 13 hours ago
MUNICH -- BMW warned that its 2019 earnings will fall "well below" last year's level and announced a 12 billion euro ($13.6 billion) cost savings plan to help offset the impact of trade conflicts and unprecedented spending on electric cars.
Pretax profit is expected to decline by more than 10 percent this year, the automaker said on Wednesday. ...
https://europe.autonews.com/automakers/bmw-will-step-cost-cutting-after-warning-profit-decline

So many reasons!  Quotes from the article:
Quote
• "Our industry is witnessing rapid transformation."
• BMW already flagged a challenging year ahead last week, saying great efforts will be necessary to push through the costly shift to electric and self-driving cars as markets fall and trade concerns mount..
• "The high level of volatility makes it difficult to provide a clear forecast," BMW said. "Depending on how conditions develop, our guidance may be subject to additional risks; in particular, the risk of a no-deal Brexit and ongoing developments in international trade policy."
• BMW’s weak outlook is a "troublesome" sign for the sector after the automaker looked better-placed than competitors with a number of strong new models and the luxury-car market in China holding up, Bernstein analyst Max Warburton wrote in a note. "This warning will inevitably increase worries about weaker names in the sector."
• The automaker's deliveries have dropped 2 percent through February as the European market declined for a sixth straight month.
• BMW is particularly hard-hit by trade concerns, with earnings suffering from extra tariffs on vehicles made in Spartanburg, South Carolina, and shipped to China. U.S. President Donald Trump has threatened to impose levies on European-made cars exported to the U.S.
• The struggles are adding to challenges from higher spending on new electric cars, while efforts to comply with stricter carbon emissions regulations will also drive up manufacturing costs.
• Currency swings and higher raw material prices will have a medium-to-high three-digit million euro negative impact, BMW said.
Other automakers are responding to the same stresses.

To summarize:  Tesla has stolen our market, and we can’t catch up.  But don’t tell our customers that!
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #1686 on: March 22, 2019, 12:54:35 AM »
"The Model Y Unveil video has been watched as many times in one week as Model 3 Unveil has in three years."

————

The #1 Reason customers buy a Tesla?  They are fun to drive.   
So many ICE cars being dissed!

Top Five Reasons Why Consumers Buy Tesla Cars: Video
Quote
There must be logic behind the choice, or is it all just emotion?

As the majority of all-electric cars sold in the U.S. are Teslas. It’s a valid question as to why? Do those Tesla cars bring so much more value compared to other models?

Cooley On Cars recently listed five reasons why people buy Tesla cars, based on customer opinions.
Those reasons are fun, proven long range, Supercharging network, mobile service and confidence in Autopilot (although this reason has decreased over time). We assume that the fun (also acceleration), range and Supercharging are the major reasons for choosing a Tesla over other electric cars.
https://insideevs.com/top-five-reasons-buy-tesla-video/amp/
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Archimid

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #1687 on: March 22, 2019, 01:28:33 AM »

The #1 Reason customers buy a Tesla?  They are fun to drive.   
So many ICE cars being dissed!

I had a chance to drive LR RWD Model 3 the other day. Can confirm. The driving sensation is amazing. The acceleration is every bit as good as the rumors say.
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GoSouthYoungins

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #1688 on: March 22, 2019, 01:39:42 AM »

I only have one point. It's a car manufacturer.

Musk bought a car company. They build cars and they sell them, hopefully for a net profit.

Wrong again.  Tesla is a blend of car manufacturing and energy supplier and a manufacturer of micro generating equipment to allow people to generate their own energy.  Plus a manufacturer of energy storage systems.

Traditional "car manufacturers", don't supply fuel, don't create fuel and sure as hell don't sell cracking systems or stills to allow the customers to create their own fuel.

The "traditional" car manufacturers are trying to work a deal so they don't have to manufacture their own batteries, they just want to buy them, ready made.

Calling Tesla a "car manufacturer" (especially as they are also moving into commercial vehicles), is a quick way to self confusion and making the wrong decisions....

But, hey, what do I know....

Bro, they are a car company. 90% of revenue is from selling cars. Couldn't be more simply or more obvious.

Tesla Bullishness seems to cause all sorts of very strange cognitive dissonances, and detachments from the most basic of realities.
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GoSouthYoungins

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #1689 on: March 22, 2019, 01:44:41 AM »
Monday: "So many orders our servers crashed!"

Thursday: "Reintroducing referral bonuses."


https://twitter.com/ElonBachman/status/1108886386139123712


Tesla's Marketing/Messaging/Pricing tells the most straight forward tale of demand and cash flow problems.  Constantly laying ppl off, changing prices, changing incentives, and non-stop "last chance" sales deals.

Is this agility? Or desperation cow dung?
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #1690 on: March 22, 2019, 01:51:07 AM »
Quote
Jon Erlichman (@JonErlichman) 3/14/19, 9:07 PM

Companies Elon Musk founded [or co-founded/financed]
Age 45: Boring Co ($113 million raised)
Age 45: Neuralink ($27 million raised)
Age 44: OpenAI (nonprofit)
Age 32: Tesla ($50 billion valuation)
Age 30: SpaceX ($30 billion valuation)
Age 28: PayPal ($1.5 billion sale)
Age 24: Zip2 ($307 million sale)
https://twitter.com/jonerlichman/status/1106361317840031745
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #1691 on: March 22, 2019, 01:57:55 AM »

The #1 Reason customers buy a Tesla?  They are fun to drive.   
So many ICE cars being dissed!

I had a chance to drive LR RWD Model 3 the other day. Can confirm. The driving sensation is amazing. The acceleration is every bit as good as the rumors say.

Gearheads can still enjoy the Tesla Model 3
by Gene Leeds //March 14, 2019
Quote
Three thousand miles ago, my wife and I purchased a Dual Motor Long Range Tesla Model 3. It is the best vehicle I’ve ever owned. Now listen, I’m not some millennial who upgraded from a Prius, but a lifelong, consummate gearhead. My last five daily drivers consisted of two John Cooper Works Minis and every modern iteration of Z06 Corvette. All manual. All modified. My father had a 71 Vega that ran a blown 454 40 over pushing about a thousand horsepower. Legal risk aside I prowled the streets with it, drag slicks screeching, parachute ready.

A car guy at heart, I initially laughed at Tesla. Yet somewhere along the line, I became intrigued by electric cars. I test drove a Model S P100D that does 0-60 mph in 2.4 seconds, and it left me cold. It did everything perfectly—and quickly—but it felt like an appliance. There was no feel, no fun, and I even got a headache from repeated bouts of acceleration. The Model S is the perfect car for people who don’t like cars. I assumed the Model 3 would simply be a cheaper and slower version of that lifeless speed demon.

On a whim, I stopped by a Tesla showroom for a test drive. Six days later, a Model 3 arrived at our home. It is a joy to drive. The steering, while lacking the feedback of a hydraulic rack, is the best electric-assisted steering wheel I’ve ever turned. What it misses in feel it makes up for in quickness, off-center effort, and precision. The wheel itself, small and thick, combined with plentiful forward visibility makes for a go-kart-like sensation. The suspension is comfortable but communicative. ...
https://www.hagerty.com/articles-videos/articles/2019/03/14/gearheads-enjoy-tesla-model-3

——-
Edit:  More cowbell!  Audio accompaniment to the Tesla’s Rainbow Road feature.
Quote
Teslatunity (@Teslatunity) 3/18/19, 6:29 PM
What could be more adorable than a 3 year old’s little voice? #Tesla #Model3 #Autopilot #NavigateOnAutopilot #MoreCowbell #RainbowRoad
https://twitter.com/teslatunity/status/1107771047804395521
Video clip at the link of a toddler mimicking the SNL skit as it plays on the TM3.  So much better than, “Are we there yet?”
« Last Edit: March 22, 2019, 02:20:41 AM by Sigmetnow »
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #1692 on: March 22, 2019, 02:47:39 AM »
Tesla is bringing back referral program to win Model Y and Roadster signed by Elon Musk
Each referral grants 1,000 miles of free Supercharging for the referral and the referee.
https://electrek.co/2019/03/21/tesla-referral-program-win-model-y-and-roadster-signed-elon-musk/

I forget:  Is it ending the referral program that proves Tesla is going bankrupt, and having one that means there is no demand?  Or, the other way around?  ::)
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oren

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #1693 on: March 22, 2019, 03:19:31 AM »
Tesla is bringing back referral program to win Model Y and Roadster signed by Elon Musk
Each referral grants 1,000 miles of free Supercharging for the referral and the referee.
https://electrek.co/2019/03/21/tesla-referral-program-win-model-y-and-roadster-signed-elon-musk/

I forget:  Is it ending the referral program that proves Tesla is going bankrupt, and having one that means there is no demand?  Or, the other way around?  ::)
Bringing it back means demand is not as strong as Tesla would like it to be.

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #1694 on: March 22, 2019, 03:11:58 PM »
Okay, Off-topic Day is over, folks. Back to posting articles, op-ed, tweets, videos and so on that hint towards either Tesla Glory or Failure.
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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #1695 on: March 22, 2019, 05:03:44 PM »
No article, op-ed, tweet or video, BUT this is Tesla glory nonetheless:

A friend of mine in Holland ordered a Tesla Model 3 two weeks ago and just got an email that it would be delivered next week. That's fast!

NeilT

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #1696 on: March 22, 2019, 07:19:37 PM »
There's a global recession on the way, which is already having significant impacts. It will impact Tesla too. It is already forcing Tesla to make strategic and marketing adjustments.

Not just Tesla. Everyone.  PMI figures for Eurozone manufacturing came in below 50 again.  In fact lower than Jan.

If you look at PMI car sales figures in the EU, they are well down on 2018.  Yet Tesla sales are robust.
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #1697 on: March 22, 2019, 07:24:27 PM »
No article, op-ed, tweet or video, BUT this is Tesla glory nonetheless:

A friend of mine in Holland ordered a Tesla Model 3 two weeks ago and just got an email that it would be delivered next week. That's fast!

The Netherlands is a hot market for the Model 3.  And with only its first two weeks of deliveries in February, the Model 3 captured 18.4% of BEV sales in all of Western Europe!

Tesla Model 3 Quickly Rises To #1 In The Netherlands — CleanTechnica EV Sales Report
https://cleantechnica.com/2019/03/10/tesla-model-3-quickly-rises-to-1-in-the-netherlands-cleantechnica-ev-sales-report/


Tesla Model 3 Easily Outsold All Other EVs In Europe In February 2019
March 22, 2019
Quote
March and April could be epically big.

Tesla is already the top-selling BEV brand in Western Europe (see report for February) and the latest data provided by industry analyst Matthias Schmidt (schmidtmatthias.de) suggest that the Tesla Model 3 is the top-selling model.

In the last month, about 3,724 registrations of the Model 3 were counted, which is several hundred more than in the case of the second top car, the Renault ZOE. Biggest markets for Model 3 were Germany (959) and Norway (791). ...
https://insideevs.com/tesla-model-3-outsells-evs-europe/
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #1698 on: March 22, 2019, 07:32:47 PM »
Tesla analyst Dan Ives of Wedbush reaffirms bullish stance after impressive Fremont and Gigafactory 1 visit
March 21, 2019
Quote
Tesla shares (NASDAQ:TSLA) might be facing headwinds in the market recently due to concerns over the company’s performance in the first quarter and Elon Musk’s ongoing issues with the Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC), but a Wall Street analyst has argued that the electric car maker’s operations are doing better than expected.

Wedbush analyst Dan Ives, together with his peer Strecker Backe, recently took a tour of Tesla’s Fremont plant in California and the company’s Gigafactory 1 in Nevada. By the end of their visit and analysis, the two analysts doubled down on their bull case, partly due to the progress that the company has made with its battery and electric vehicle production.

A visit to Tesla’s Fremont factory will not be complete without a tour of the infamous tent housing an assembly line for the Model 3. While the sprung structure has remained polarizing and a constant target of ridicule from Tesla’s critics, Ives noted that the tent-based assembly line is actually performing very well, with processes in the location being robust and streamlined. “It was jaw-dropping in how efficient that process has now become in the tent. This is not a company that’s slowing down production,” Ives noted.

The Wedbush analysts were equally impressed by Tesla’s progress in its operations at Gigafactory 1, where it produces batteries and drive units for the Model 3. Ives wrote in a recent report to clients that based on what he has seen, Gigafactory 1’s current output will be able to support a steady production rate of 7,000 Model 3 per week, thanks to “more automation, robotics, data analysis, and streamlined capacity” at the site. ...
https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-tsla-battery-automation-model-3-ramp-rivals/

Dan Ives is ranked #584 out of 5,249 analysts on TipRanks with a success rate of 62% and an average return of 6.8%.
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NeilT

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #1699 on: March 22, 2019, 07:34:03 PM »
You are so wrong about everything. You prance around these forums acting like some sort of authority on manufacturing. But you are so consistently wrong it hurts.

Well to be on topic, Tesla is not just a car manufacturer. This is fact.  However the proffered "evidence" that Tesla is not more than a car company is... let's get this... Mitsubishi.

Let me see.

Mitsubishi, the company

Quote
Mitsubishi was established in 1870, two years after the Meiji Restoration, with shipping as its core business. Its diversification was mostly into related fields. It entered into coal-mining to gain the coal needed for ships, bought a shipbuilding yard from the government to repair the ships it used, founded an iron mill to supply iron to the shipbuilding yard, started a marine insurance business to cater for its shipping business, and so forth. Later, the managerial resources and technological capabilities acquired through the operation of shipbuilding were utilized to expand the business further into the manufacture of aircraft and equipment.

<sinip>

The merchant fleet entered into a period of diversification that would eventually result in the creation of three entities:
Mitsubishi Bank (now a part of the Mitsubishi UFJ Financial Group) was founded in 1919. After its mergers with the Bank of Tokyo in 1996, and UFJ Holdings in 2004, this became Japan's largest bank.
Mitsubishi Corporation, founded in 1950, Japan's largest general trading company
Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, which includes these industrial companies: Mitsubishi Motors, the sixth-largest Japan-based car manufacturer.
Mitsubishi Atomic Industry, a nuclear power company.
Mitsubishi Chemical, the largest Japan-based chemicals company
Mitsubishi Hitachi Power Systems, a power generation division
Nikon Corporation, specializing in optics and imaging.

Right, so we were talking about Car companies which were set up to become more than just a car company.

Not a shipping company which became a global enterprise which just happens to manufacture vehicles as one of its heavy industry arms.

If we are going to compare Tesla with companies which actually are comparable, it would be nice to actually do so.

Yes Tesla does not manufacture the Panasonic cells.  It actually manufactures energy storage and delivery systems for vehicles, homes and businesses.

Which is not, in my very limited experience (it seems), the role of a car manufacturer.
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