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Lurk

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #2400 on: May 17, 2019, 12:16:04 PM »
Quote
A preliminary report from the National Transportation Safety Board on Thursday said a Tesla Inc. vehicle involved in a fatal crash in Florida in March was on Autopilot, Tesla's suite of advanced driver assistance systems.

The 50 year-old male driver, who died as a result of the crash, engaged Autopilot about 10 seconds before the collision, the report said. From less than 8 seconds before the crash to the time of the impact, the vehicle did not detect the driver's hands on the steering wheel, it said. The vehicle struck a semitrailer and the roof of the Tesla was sheared off. The Tesla was traveling at 68 miles per hour when it struck the semitrailer.

"Neither the preliminary data nor the videos indicate that the driver or the ADAS executed evasive maneuvers," the NTSB report said. The crash remains under investigation, it said.

Earlier this month, the family of a man who died after his Model X crashed against a highway barrier and caught on fire in Silicon Valley filed a lawsuit against Tesla.

Tesla shares fell 1.2% in midday trading Thursday while the S&P 500 index SPX, +0.89% rose 1.3%.
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/tesla-in-fatal-florida-crash-had-autopilot-on-ntsb-says-2019-05-16

a commenter said: "If one reads the NSTSB and Teslas statements one discovers the driver of the March crash had not engaged Autopilot all day, and only did so 10 seconds before the crash. He immediately removed his hands from the steering wheel and 8 seconds later he was dead in an accident scenario identical to another FL crash last year."

Talking about the share price. On the 13th TSLA was hovering down near $225-227. This morning it's still in the same band now down to $224.35  - $220.51 - $217.81 :)


The spurt that came after the Capital raise has not been sustained. Volume is down on average and not much is happening in "Tesla Land". They may be simply focusing on building cars for a change? ;) 
« Last Edit: May 17, 2019, 03:49:35 PM by Lurk »
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Lurk

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #2401 on: May 17, 2019, 12:24:42 PM »
Palo Alto, CA, based Investment company Light Street Capital Management, Llc Sold Out there TSLA holdings in Q1 2019

The sale prices were between $260.42 and $347.31, with an estimated average price of $301.74.
https://www.gurufocus.com/news/878774/light-street-capital-management-llc-buys-sea-lyft-inc-gds-holdings-sells-wayfair-inc-tesla-inc-okta-inc/

They either did really well, or were able to cut their potential losses significantly.
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Neven

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #2402 on: May 17, 2019, 01:27:14 PM »
I agree with this:

Tesla has good sides and bad sides. There was a period of rather well-balanced discussion and most importantly short and to the point discussion here. Links were picked with care and their biases highlighted. Sig used to bring actual Tesla news along with some cheerleading, with a known pink-colored tinge, but certainly not in the amount currently going on this thread.
Either Tesla will hang itself by bad execution and Elon's craziness, or be drowned by market dynamics (competitors, demand, trade wars, carbon taxes or lack thereof and many other factors), or it might succeed. Its success will not mean the world is saved, not by a long shot, but it will probably mean EVs will be more advanced in general, compared to if Tesla fails. Is this important? To some more so, to some less so.

I don't agree with this:

Quote
Does this merit daily updates on the share price? Research papers dug up from one and even two years ago? Clearly biased articles by people who most probably make money by being permanent Tesla negatives? Two per week, maybe. Ten per day, I think not.

Instead of endless discussions, this thread is meant to be used as a repository of propaganda, both by Sigmetnow and by Lurk. Daily updates on the share price is (to me) like daily updates on JAXA SIE numbers. If there are ten things to post every day, then so be it.
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Archimid

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #2403 on: May 17, 2019, 01:48:17 PM »
Oren, sadly, persistence is powerful, and Lurk has shown that. Persistence coupled with favorable moderation is even more difficult to defeat. But that's ok  because a microcosm of the Tesla reality has been created on this thread.

It used to be a refuge to gain hope for the future of humanity and it has now become another battleground infested by malicious propaganda. Such is the way of the internet.

Like climate change, we must figure out a way to sort the truth from the FUD and see otherwise smart people succumb to FUD.

There is still something to learn from Lurk if you can sort out the FUD and extract the nuggets of truth.  I usually give up on trolls when they don't offer valuable info anymore, but Lurk still does. Use him. Find where he is wrong and learn.

 His efforts no longer matter. The EV revolution is happening and it's just starting. Hopefully, as the situation changes and Lurk moves his goal posts accordingly he remains useful.


On a more personal note:

The worst thing about buying shares on a company you admire and love is the feeling of happiness for the opportunities for buying low. I'm hoping I can take advantage of it at the end of the month. So in a way, I feel a bit indebted to Lurk.
I am an energy reservoir seemingly intent on lowering entropy for self preservation.

oren

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #2404 on: May 17, 2019, 02:13:48 PM »
I don't agree with this:

Quote
Does this merit daily updates on the share price? Research papers dug up from one and even two years ago? Clearly biased articles by people who most probably make money by being permanent Tesla negatives? Two per week, maybe. Ten per day, I think not.

Instead of endless discussions, this thread is meant to be used as a repository of propaganda, both by Sigmetnow and by Lurk. Daily updates on the share price is (to me) like daily updates on JAXA SIE numbers. If there are ten things to post every day, then so be it.
Your forum, your decision obviously. I prefer this thread to be about matters that actually affect Tesla long-term success or failure, rather than a propaganda battleground, but I'll have to accept the situation.

Lurk

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #2405 on: May 17, 2019, 03:05:34 PM »
Quote
Tesla CEO Elon Musk launches new ‘hardcore’ cost-cutting effort, will review all expenses
Fred Lambert
- May. 16th 2019

Musk made the announcement in an email sent to all Tesla employees and obtained by Electrek.
In the email, the CEO argued that it is “extremely important” to “examine every expenditure at Tesla, no matter how small.” He referenced Tesla’s last quarter during which the automaker lost $700 million.

Even Tesla still had a $2.2 billion cash position at the end of last quarter, Musk said that it wouldn’t last that long with their burn rate: “This is a lot of money, but actually only gives us about 10 months at the Q1 burn rate to achieve breakeven!”
“This is hardcore, but it is the only way for Tesla to become financially sustainable and succeed in our goal of helping make the world environmentally sustainable.”

He said that employees have a few weeks to take ownership of expenses and find ways to make improvements.

https://electrek.co/2019/05/16/tesla-hardcore-cost-cutting-elon-musk/

Anyone who has worked for a large Corporation or a multi-national worth $Billions knows how "hard core" a step that is. It is not a sign the Company has been well managed. It speaks to a Company in crisis mode - actually it emphasises how Tesla is always in some kind of a crisis mode.

This very short news article comes with 411 comments in less than a day. Again predominantly by those who don't have a clue about anything to do with business or best practice management within a large sales orientated Corporation. Sadly they remind me of Elon Musk.
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b_lumenkraft

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #2406 on: May 17, 2019, 03:08:48 PM »
Lurk, are you familiar with the term 'agile software development'?

As you know, Musk is having a software development background. What if [1], what you perceive as chaos is in its essence the possibility to adapt very fast, a trait that might be needed in a changing environment, and, of course, a trait the multi-billion-international corporation is lagging?

[1] serious hypothetical question. Let's be crazy and just assume that for a minute. What if?

b_lumenkraft

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #2407 on: May 17, 2019, 03:25:22 PM »
No, i'm asking you my friend.  ;)

No need to answer now. Keep this thought in mind for a while. I bet you'll recognize a pattern.

zizek

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #2408 on: May 17, 2019, 07:47:40 PM »
Your forum, your decision obviously. I prefer this thread to be about matters that actually affect Tesla long-term success or failure, rather than a propaganda battleground, but I'll have to accept the situation.

You never said a word when almost the entirety of the Policy and Solutions was dedicated to Corporate Propaganda. Hyperloop, Boring Company, Solar City, Tesla. Every single peep that came out of Musk's mouth was repeated here by Sigmetnow et al. in a number of different threads. Tesla dominated the discussions here. And I remember clearly that any criticism was met with an obnoxious army of sycophants forcefully turning off the conversation.

Who cares that Lurk is spamming the Tesla thread. It was created for corporate spam, negative or positive. Don't get me wrong, Lurk's sometimes incessant posting is grating. But at least it's original and critical. Most of Sig's posts were tweets from Tesla fanboys. 

You would think that by now you would realize that maybe we don't need to foster discussion around status quo solutions to climate change, and instead direct the conversation into more productive ideas... Like, perhaps, not building a bunch of cars.

magnamentis

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #2409 on: May 17, 2019, 08:03:56 PM »
"with his many profitable startups"

his ?

profitable ?

the few/only profitable ones were not "his" and not managed by "him" but he was a late joining shareholder, i.e. paypal.

even tesla was not his baby from the time of birth and is not profitable as far as i can see and without a miracle won't be for a long time to come, i'd say never ( quarters don't count numbers are tweaked like last year)
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #2410 on: May 17, 2019, 08:37:09 PM »
Here’s a video for folks who are unfamiliar with the Tesla Autopilot interface.  In particular, those who don't know what it means that “hands were not detected.”

Even when the driver’s hands are constantly on the steering wheel, the Tesla frequently does not detect them.  Visual “nags” at bottom of center display are seen regularly here, and quickly increase to audible warnings when hands are still not detected.  (Even more drastic interventions would follow, including deactivating AP even if hands are detected, or pulling off the road if there is no response.)



Cell phone use while driving is totally under human control, but people die every day because of it. 
Yet the media gives that next to no attention, even though preventing it would save thousands of lives every year, not just one or two.
Quote
space bound (@Ev_Investor) 5/16/19, 3:40 PM
How national media covers the > 3,000 distracted driving deaths a year in the US:
(hint: similar to how they cover every Tesla fire while ignoring the 10,000s of fires in gas cars
annually).
https://twitter.com/ev_investor/status/1129109477238566912
Pie chart below.
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #2411 on: May 17, 2019, 08:52:40 PM »
"with his many profitable startups"

his ?

profitable ?

the few/only profitable ones were not "his" and not managed by "him" but he was a late joining shareholder, i.e. paypal.

even tesla was not his baby from the time of birth and is not profitable as far as i can see and without a miracle won't be for a long time to come, i'd say never ( quarters don't count numbers are tweaked like last year)

Age 24: Zip2 (acquired by Compaq for $340 million)
Musk then founded X.com, an online bank. It merged with Confinity in 2000 and later that year became PayPal, which was bought by eBay for $1.5 billion in October 2002.
Age 30: SpaceX ($30 billion valuation)
Age 32: Tesla ($50 billion valuation)
Age 44: OpenAI (nonprofit)
Age 45: Neuralink ($27 million raised)
Age 45: Boring Co ($113 million raised)
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #2412 on: May 17, 2019, 09:34:48 PM »
Breathe much?

Quote
Air Pollution Is Slowly Killing Us All, New Global Study Claims
https://cleantechnica.com/2019/05/17/air-pollution-is-slowly-killing-us-all-new-global-study-claims/

Quote
Elon Musk (@elonmusk) 5/17/19, 2:50 PM
This is why we put extra filters in all Tesla cars. S & X even have hospital operating room grade HEPA filters.
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1129459107952332800

Parents report that their Tesla’s “Biohazard Filter” System knocks down their child’s asthma attacks. The system has also helped people with respiratory sensitivities who were downwind from wildfires.  It’s a popular feature in perennially smoggy China.
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Lurk

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #2413 on: May 18, 2019, 05:11:59 AM »
Even when the driver’s hands are constantly on the steering wheel, the Tesla frequently does not detect them.

iow another Tesla Fault

<snipped> the Whataboutery
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Lurk

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #2414 on: May 18, 2019, 05:42:14 AM »
Age 32: Tesla ($50 billion valuation)

Correction: 2019-05-17 

Tesla Market Cap $39.87 Billion Valuation

TSLA:  $210.01

YTD:  -36.59%

https://www.marketwatch.com/investing/stock/tsla

It's "Just the facts Ma'am"

Cumulative Tesla Inc. Losses to date: Circa $20 Billion I heard someone on Twitter say.
Quote
Big picture research: Potentially useful for everyone
Let me get that for you - http://bfy.tw/NiNB
For the more Academic minded souls:  http://bfy.tw/NiNX
 
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b_lumenkraft

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #2415 on: May 18, 2019, 06:19:23 AM »
As an intelligent person, that you are Lurk, it doesn't really take time to see something from different viewpoints. Looking at it with a narrow band is not time-saving, it's just lazy. And if you do it deliberately, it's also ignorant.

And this is what i don't get. When it comes to other topics you are always willing to think the extra mile. Why not here?

Lurk

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #2416 on: May 18, 2019, 06:20:05 AM »
Woulda, coulda, shoulda ... How to be successful according to Elon "Gonna" Musk

Remember when Elon Musk was still the Chairman of the Board of Tesla Inc.?

Quote
Sigmetnow:  Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #5226 on: August 25, 2018, 01:27:59 PM »
original url https://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php/topic,438.msg169477.html#msg169477

Staying Public - Elon Musk August 24, 2018
Quote <snipping parts of the original post>
    ...
    Based on all the discussions that have taken place over the last couple of weeks and a thorough consideration of what is best for the company, a few things are clear to me:

    • Given the feedback I’ve received, it’s apparent that most of Tesla’s existing shareholders believe we are better off as a public company. [...] Although the majority of shareholders I spoke to said they would remain with Tesla if we went private, the sentiment, in a nutshell, was “please don’t do this.”

    • [...]  This is a problem because we absolutely must stay focused on ramping Model 3 and becoming profitable. We will not achieve our mission of advancing sustainable energy unless we are also financially sustainable.

    • [...] I believe the better path is for Tesla to remain public. The Board indicated that they agree.

    Moving forward, we will continue to focus on what matters most: building products [... ] and we now need to show that we can be sustainably profitable. With all the progress we’ve made on Model 3, we’re positioned to do this, and that’s what the team and I are going to be putting all of our efforts toward....


https://www.tesla.com/blog/staying-public

As Neven highly recommends LET'S COMPARE - and see that despite all the Elon Musk "rhetoric & promises" this is where TESLA is today, May. 17, 2019

Quote
Tesla CEO Elon Musk launches new ‘hardcore’ cost-cutting effort, will review all expenses
Fred Lambert
- May. 16th 2019

Musk made the announcement in an email sent to all Tesla employees and obtained by Electrek.
In the email, the CEO argued that it is “extremely important” to “examine every expenditure at Tesla, no matter how small.” He referenced Tesla’s last quarter during which the automaker lost $700 million.

Even Tesla still had a $2.2 billion cash position at the end of last quarter, Musk said that it wouldn’t last that long with their burn rate: “This is a lot of money, but actually only gives us about 10 months at the Q1 burn rate to achieve breakeven!”
“This is hardcore, but it is the only way for Tesla to become financially sustainable and succeed in our goal of helping make the world environmentally sustainable.”

He said that employees have a few weeks to take ownership of expenses and find ways to make improvements.
https://electrek.co/2019/05/16/tesla-hardcore-cost-cutting-elon-musk/

Anyone who has worked for a large Corporation or a multi-national worth $Billions knows how "hard core" a step that is. It is not a sign the Company has been well managed. It speaks to a Company in crisis mode - actually it emphasises how Tesla is always in some kind of a crisis mode.

Plus these articles being "the tip of an iceberg" today:
Tesla stock falls nearly 8% after reports of ‘hardcore’ plan to slash costs
    May. 17, 2019 at 4:26 p.m. ET by Claudia Assis
 Tesla Stock Falls Amid Reports of ‘Hardcore’ Cost-Cutting
    May. 17, 2019 at 11:19 a.m. ET by Barron's
Tesla News: Why TSLA Stock Is Tumbling Today
    May. 17, 2019 at 4:41 p.m. ET on InvestorPlace.com
Tesla slumps 6% on report of 'hardcore' cost-cutting plan
    May. 17, 2019 at 2:17 p.m. ET on Seeking Alpha
Ref url https://www.marketwatch.com/investing/stock/tsla

How's that working out for Elon Musk, the shareholders and the staff so far?

TSLA share price history:
August 7th 2018 ~ $380
August 24th 2018 ~ $322 (Blog post to staff above)
Monday 13th May ~ $231
Friday 17th May ~ $210 (Email to staff becomes public)

Did you catch the pattern?
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b_lumenkraft

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #2417 on: May 18, 2019, 06:55:36 AM »
Not expecting anything from you, but want to hint on you that you are looking at this topic with a narrow view. That's all.

I brought up the agile development because much of what you see as Musk being a crazy person is in real fast adoption in a highly competitive market, with a product that requires a lot of know-how, complex supply chains, logistics, retail outlets, etc.

When your competition is a bunch of cheating bastards propped up by nation states and a lot of lobbying power, how can you expect this not to be a bumpy ride that requires agile adoption?



b_lumenkraft

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #2418 on: May 18, 2019, 10:04:39 AM »
5 reasons why Tesla bought Maxwell Tech


Sigmetnow

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #2419 on: May 18, 2019, 01:36:48 PM »
We don’t have the luxury of time to choose a preferred savior to lead us to zero emissions.  The undeniable fact is: Tesla is in the lead, and thus should be championed for their work fighting the efforts of Big Oil.

Sustainable Products and Manufacturing | Tesla
Quote
The Tesla Team April 15, 2019
Today, we’re publishing our first ever Impact Report, which measures the impact our products and operations have on the environment and our communities. We believe the faster the world moves towards a zero-emission future, the better, so we’re working hard to minimize our greenhouse gas footprint, while investing in our employees and the communities in which we operate. We look forward to sharing further progress in future reports.
https://www.tesla.com/ns_videos/tesla-impact-report-2019.pdf
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Lurk

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #2420 on: May 18, 2019, 01:55:03 PM »
(sigh)
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/your-wise-brain/201410/accept-them-they-are

Remember the good old days? Weren't they grand!

Quote
Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #5213 on: August 24, 2018, 07:12:33 PM »

Quote from: Artful Dodger on August 24, 2018, 05:26:10 PM

 
Quote
    Hi Oren.

   It's the bullshit asymmetry principle (also known as Brandolini's law). That's why I just block them and don't waste time pissing up a rope. And, they're getting paid for every time YOU reply to their B.S. Think about that...

    Cheers!


The level of desperation shown here is sad. To think that everyone who disagrees with you is a paid shill...pathetic mental frailty.
https://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php/topic,438.msg169382.html#msg169382


Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #1833 on: April 04, 2019, 05:30:37 PM »
Guys, instead of these long-winded discussions, please keep it short and post links that hint at either Tesla glory or failure.

 
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #2421 on: May 18, 2019, 02:16:23 PM »
5 reasons why Tesla bought Maxwell Tech
...

Great description of the synergistic benefits of the acquisition.  It makes sense:  Tesla is at the stage they can improve the design of their upcoming products to take advantage the new tech.

From the video:  “Four or five months ago, [Maxwell touted] a potential huge partnership with an automaker.  Now we know that was most likely Tesla they were working with.  My guess is that the Roadster [2.0] and the Semi truck were ‘prototypes’ to test out Maxwell’s tech, and they liked it enough to acquire it.”

——-
A link, per thread guidelines:
Tesla completes acquisition of Maxwell, officially takes over the battery technology
https://electrek.co/2019/05/16/tesla-completes-maxwell-acquisition-battery-technology/
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #2422 on: May 18, 2019, 04:53:44 PM »
When the Tesla Model S disrupted the luxury car market in 2013, the big carmakers claimed they could make EVs, too — better EVs than Tesla — no problem, don’t worry.  And people felt comforted in their ICE habits as carmakers lied about that and their “clean diesels.”  Now, years later, the truth is being revealed for all to see.  And Tesla is still a global leader.

Sep 12, 2013Volkswagen Will Be The Biggest Electric-Car Maker In 2018, It Says
Quote
“We are starting at exactly the right time," said Group CEO Martin Winterkorn before the show.
"We are electrifying all vehicle classes, and therefore have everything we need to make the Volkswagen Group the top automaker in all respects, including electric mobility, by 2018."
https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1086902_volkswagen-will-be-the-biggest-electric-car-maker-in-2018-it-says

May 16, 2019BMW CEO defends record after first automaking loss in decade
Quote
The automaker reported its first loss in a decade in the main automotive division in the three month through March, after booking a 1.4 billion euro provision ($1.6 billion) for potential European Union fines over collusion. Even excluding this charge, the unit's return on sales dropped to the lowest point in 10 years.

"Where is this model offensive?" German shareholder association Vice-President Daniela Bergdolt said in her speech to loud applause from shareholders. "Sure, you've got the iNEXT, but I was expecting something that blows Tesla out of the water."
https://www.autonews.com/executives/bmw-ceo-defends-record-after-first-automaking-loss-decade

“BMW is toast.”
- ValueAnalyst
https://twitter.com/valueanalyst1/status/1129609722968072192

Quote
Not Elon Musk (@elonmusknt) 5/16/19, 10:39 PM
List of non $TSLA executive departures:

Mercedes USA CEO
Audi USA CEO
Nissan CEO
Renault CEO
NIO CEO
Volkswagen CEO

 I bet BMW is next.
https://twitter.com/elonmusknt/status/1129214826776076288
(Also Ford.  And the all-Audi CEO, who “departed” to jail.)
« Last Edit: May 18, 2019, 05:01:12 PM by Sigmetnow »
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #2423 on: May 18, 2019, 04:58:48 PM »
...Sig used to bring actual Tesla news along with some cheerleading, with a known pink-colored tinge, but certainly not in the amount currently going on this thread.
...

It’s [color=purple].  ;) ;D
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b_lumenkraft

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #2424 on: May 18, 2019, 05:16:24 PM »
5 reasons why Tesla bought Maxwell Tech
...

Great description of the synergistic benefits of the acquisition.

So this is highly speculative on my part, but i think there is one more thing.

Maxwell is famous for capacitors. For me, it is obvious one could use a capacitor to dramatically shorten charging times. A capacitor can take in a lot of power in a very short time and then discharge the power into the battery while you are already on the road again. Perhaps Tesla has something like that in mind for future cars.

Sigmetnow

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #2425 on: May 18, 2019, 05:49:17 PM »
5 reasons why Tesla bought Maxwell Tech
...

Great description of the synergistic benefits of the acquisition.

So this is highly speculative on my part, but i think there is one more thing.

Maxwell is famous for capacitors. For me, it is obvious one could use a capacitor to dramatically shorten charging times. A capacitor can take in a lot of power in a very short time and then discharge the power into the battery while you are already on the road again. Perhaps Tesla has something like that in mind for future cars.

Might work well in the Semi truck, with its multiple battery packs.  One pack can be “charging” underway while another is discharging to move the vehicle.  In time this could move down to individual battery modules in cars.
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b_lumenkraft

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #2426 on: May 18, 2019, 06:26:15 PM »
As long as you put in more than you pull out, you can charge a battery (via the capacitor) even if you discharge it (with driving) at the same time. So it could be even done with a single module.

Looking forward to what they come up with. :)

magnamentis

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #2427 on: May 18, 2019, 06:32:42 PM »
5 reasons why Tesla bought Maxwell Tech
...

Great description of the synergistic benefits of the acquisition.

So this is highly speculative on my part, but i think there is one more thing.

Maxwell is famous for capacitors. For me, it is obvious one could use a capacitor to dramatically shorten charging times. A capacitor can take in a lot of power in a very short time and then discharge the power into the battery while you are already on the road again. Perhaps Tesla has something like that in mind for future cars.

although we don't know whether tesla will adopt or is working on something into that direction, it's generally speaking and without any doubt a very good idea and approach.

this is the kind of synergetic energy managment that, without going into details, see as the future.
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oren

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #2428 on: May 18, 2019, 06:35:03 PM »
Capacitors can charge and discharge energy at a very high rate, but for a very short time, so I doubt they can be used with the ideas described above.
Some have speculated on using ultracapacitors for short term energy spikes during hard acceleration and extreme regen braking, but I am not even sure if that would be useful. In all probability, the Maxwell acquisition is about their new method of making batteries (dry coating I think), leading to cost reductions and higher energy densities.

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #2429 on: May 18, 2019, 07:00:54 PM »
Oren I believe you are referring to the Dry Battery Electrode (DBE) technology.

Quote
“We believe that our patent-protected, proprietary manufacturing process, which has been utilized through many years of ultracapacitor production, can be applied to the manufacturing of battery electrode without the use of solvents to produce a highly reliable electrode material with uniform characteristics resulting in enhanced product performance, long-term durability, and lower manufacturing cost.” (Maxwell Annual Report, 2017)

https://cleantechnica.com/2019/02/04/the-ultracapacitors-electrodes-battery-manufacturing-tech-tesla-gets-with-maxwell-technologies/


If this DBE technology is real thi sis what Maxwell expected from it:





The following video goes into some details and the timeline of this acquisition and the potential for Tesla batteries.



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b_lumenkraft

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #2430 on: May 18, 2019, 07:09:32 PM »
Capacitors can charge and discharge energy at a very high rate, but for a very short time, so I doubt they can be used with the ideas described above.

Yes, agreed. For now. As mentioned, this is highly speculative.

Quote
Some have speculated on using ultracapacitors for short term energy spikes during hard acceleration and extreme regen braking, but I am not even sure if that would be useful. In all probability, the Maxwell acquisition is about their new method of making batteries (dry coating I think), leading to cost reductions and higher energy densities.

That's a given IMHO.

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #2431 on: May 18, 2019, 08:35:34 PM »
Not expecting anything from you, but want to hint on you that you are looking at this topic with a narrow view. That's all.

I brought up the agile development because much of what you see as Musk being a crazy person is in real fast adoption in a highly competitive market, with a product that requires a lot of know-how, complex supply chains, logistics, retail outlets, etc.

When your competition is a bunch of cheating bastards propped up by nation states and a lot of lobbying power, how can you expect this not to be a bumpy ride that requires agile adoption?

Have you been attending a course by Oren on the side? I do not accept any of your premises in these posts. Quit the assumptions and mind-reading attempts. You're missing the mark.
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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #2432 on: May 18, 2019, 08:36:27 PM »
China makes a lot of EVs, but most are hybrids or small, low-range models.  Other EV manufacturers have far to go to rival Tesla’s dominance.

Tesla dominates carmakers in battery capacity deployed, including state-backed rivals in China
Quote
Tesla’s deployments were so dominating that the company not only beat its rivals in the United States and the European region; the electric car maker also bested 486 registered electric vehicle manufacturers in China. These include BYD, which is personally backed by billionaire Warren Buffett, as well as BJEV, the electric car brand of state-owned automaker BAIC. Tesla beat BYD two to one on a MWh-basis, while dominating BJEV by a factor of four despite the EV-maker getting direct support from Beijing.

Tesla’s numbers become even more impressive when compared to those of its rivals in the United States and Europe. At 2,889 MWh, Tesla’s battery deployment is close to equaling the combined total of its competitors outside Adamas’ Top 10 list, which include large brands such as Ford, Mercedes-Benz, and Volkswagen. It should also be noted that the figures of Tesla’s competitors include batteries that were installed on hybrid vehicles, making the Silicon Valley-based electric car maker’s performance even more notable.

Also impressive is that Tesla was able to deploy 2,889 MWh of electric car batteries during a month when the battery deployment of its flagship vehicles, the Model S and Model X, saw a decline of over 40%. Following a recently-released improvements to the sedan and SUV, Tesla’s deployments for the vehicles could see an increase in the coming months.
https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-battery-deployment-tops-global-ev-makers/
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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #2433 on: May 18, 2019, 08:47:16 PM »
Unlike a battery, the voltage of a capacitor changes substantially when it is discharged/charged. If I remember correctly, this is a major obstacle when integrating a capacitor into an battery EV power system, as the electronics and/or the motor would have to be redesigned significantly to accommodate.

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #2434 on: May 18, 2019, 08:51:34 PM »
Capacitors can charge and discharge energy at a very high rate, but for a very short time, so I doubt they can be used with the ideas described above.
Some have speculated on using ultracapacitors for short term energy spikes during hard acceleration and extreme regen braking, but I am not even sure if that would be useful. In all probability, the Maxwell acquisition is about their new method of making batteries (dry coating I think), leading to cost reductions and higher energy densities.

perhaps not exactly, perhaps not solely and perhaps not just like that but they can be used and it is a useful approach that deserves further attention and development.

if it were easy as that it would be a no-brainer and i don't think that anyone assumed one simply has to to apply it and all is running and running better than before.

BTW, each post leaves room for a reply, even a sceptical, a negative and/or a correcting reply, but it does not have to done each time, that leaves a smell over time. one factor of wisdom is to choose when it's worth it and the motivation behind it.

it's like with medicine, any medicine becomes a poison when applied in overdoses. ;)
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #2435 on: May 18, 2019, 09:27:22 PM »
‘Tesla killers’ are celebrating 7-year anniversary since Model S debut
Quote
In just a few weeks, Tesla’s first mass-produced vehicle (Model S) will be celebrating 7 years on the road. Back in June 2012, people would scoff when you would mention Tesla, “Who’s going to buy an electric car, let alone a luxury electric car??”

A lot has changed since then. The company has sold over 260,000 Model S’ globally since its debut and it has yet to be dethroned as the longest-range electric vehicle on the road. After analysts and naysayers starting paying attention to Tesla in late 2012 (hint: Model S was Motor Trend Car of the Year in 2012), another narrative took shape, The Germans will squash these California guys, just wait a few years.

So here we are, 7 years later. Audi has just released its first real EV, the e-tron, and Mercedes is in the process of launching their counterpart, the EQC, BMW is nowhere to be found. While the e-tron and the EQC are meaningful ploys to keep Audi and Mercedes customers from fleeing to Tesla, they seem underwhelming and late. The e-tron is equipped with a massive 95 kWh battery, but only erks out 204-miles of EPA range, and the EQC is estimated to land somewhere in between 200-220 miles* with an 80 kWh battery.

Let’s be clear, no one is a bigger fan of automakers entering the EV space. Audi’s e-tron should be considered an overture for the upcoming Audi and Porsche co-developed electric vehicles, which will sport one of the first 800V systems, longer range, and more efficient motors. But one thing is clear here, Tesla is still miles and years ahead of the Germans. Porsche’s upcoming Taycan would have been quite competitive with the 2018 Model S, but with the Model S’s latest platform update sporting 370-miles [595 km] out of a 100 kWh battery, Tesla’s lead becomes more and more apparent. Things haven’t panned out as 2013 wall street envisioned.
https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-killers-are-celebrating-7-year-anniversary-since-model-s-debut/

*“closer to 200”:  https://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php/topic,2686.msg199867.html#msg199867
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #2436 on: May 18, 2019, 09:39:37 PM »
Free with purchase (and even without a purchase):  the Tesla Community.
An invaluable asset.

”As a last-ditch effort, Andrews went to the nearest charging station, the EVgo station near the Leader Heights exit off Interstate 83. It might sound crazy, she said, but she was going to ask complete strangers driving Teslas if they would take her son and his date to the prom.

The second person she approached, said yes.”


Stranger with 'heart of gold,' and a Tesla, drives York Tech seniors to prom
https://amp.ydr.com/amp/3709833002
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Lurk

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #2437 on: May 18, 2019, 10:15:39 PM »
‘Tesla killers’ are celebrating 7-year anniversary since Model S debut

<snipped bitter and twisted celebration>


So we get 7 years of pent up bitter and twisted revenge? It's a sad very sick old world.

"Yay, look at us all, were all glorious and successful now! Nah, nah, na na, nah!"


Kindergarten was fun for me too, but everyone has to outgrow it eventually. No matter how old they get.

Meanwhile do not miss this great opportunity to buy TSLA for only $210 / share - cheap as chips! A BARGAIN - this will not last long as Tesla is simply going gang-busters peoples!

And one day Elon Musk says it'll be a $500 Billion Company so each of your shares will be worth at least $2,200.  OMG, wow! That much? Yes indeedy.

And if you buy a $60,000 Model 3 today folks one day, maybe soon, it'll be worth $250,000 or more, because that's what Elon says. And he's a damned genius that man. Don't be gullible or foolish. You can trust what Elon says 100%, 100% of the time! ;D
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #2438 on: Today at 02:35:41 AM »
...
Quote
Not Elon Musk (@elonmusknt) 5/16/19, 10:39 PM
List of non $TSLA executive departures:

Mercedes USA CEO
Audi USA CEO
Nissan CEO
Renault CEO
NIO CEO
Volkswagen CEO

 I bet BMW is next.
https://twitter.com/elonmusknt/status/1129214826776076288
(Also Ford.  And the all-Audi CEO, who “departed” to jail.)

And now Mitsubishi
May 17, 2019
Masuko to step down as Mitsubishi Motors CEO; Kato to succeed him
https://www.autonews.com/executives/masuko-step-down-mitsubishi-motors-ceo-kato-succeed-him

Hey, Tesla bears:  Elon Musk, CEO, for the win! :P
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #2439 on: Today at 03:34:33 AM »
Quote
Bark (@BarkMSmeagol) 5/17/19, 1:29 PM
Even with the smear campaign firing on all cylinders 24/7 for years and years, @Tesla’s brand value increased 60%. Great job #DumDums. You’re officially terrible at your job  ;D :D ;D :D ;D ...
https://brandz.com/admin/uploads/files/BZ_Global_2018_DL.pdf   ...
https://twitter.com/barkmsmeagol/status/1129438732333936640
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Lurk

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #2440 on: Today at 07:26:19 AM »
( Repeat Ref - using the insights of past quality objective analyses with the added benefit of hindsight, and bringing in the more recent known realities of the present to gain a Plus Element Perspective of the bigger picture - and the patterns arising thereof. )

22,883 views
Apr 25, 2018
A Brief History Of Tesla: $19 Billion Raised And $9 Billion Of Negative Cash Flow
Jim Collins
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jimcollins/2018/04/25/a-brief-history-of-tesla-19-billion-raised-and-9-billion-of-negative-cash-flow/

Extracts:
Quote
In 26 years analyzing the auto industry, I have never experienced a media frenzy like the one that surrounds Tesla. Each tweet from CEO Elon Musk is parsed ad nauseum and sensational headlines scream about the company's production rates and customers' experience with its products. As an investor, though, that wall of noise is, unfortunately, just noise. What is needed to analyze Tesla stock—as opposed to the Tesla Phenomenon—is a simple, dispassionate reading of Tesla's financial statements.

In so doing, I come to two inescapable conclusions. Musk and Tesla are incredibly skilled at raising capital and Tesla Inc. is incredibly unprofitable.

Again, the key is to analyze the numbers in Aristotelian fashion—with reason free from passion—which can be difficult given the extraordinary passion on both sides of the long/short debate on Tesla.

Since the year of its IPO in 2010, Tesla has raised $19 billion in capital and produced negative cash flow of $9 billion. The table at the end of this column shows all the details.


Quote
I compiled those numbers from Tesla's past eight 10-K filings and the two figures are really staggering in juxtaposition.

Well, for one, Musk says Tesla doesn't need to raise capital. That's pure fantasy.

In a prior Forbes column, I stated that Tesla needs to raise at least $2 billion this year to fund its obligations into 2019, and analysts from Moody's and Jefferies have published similar figures.

[ 2018/19 history shows Musk/Tesla delayed raising that funding until April 2019 - a year later - after achieving a short-term cash flow positive reprieve in Q3/Q4 2018
Quote

Tesla’s need for additional capital is so acute because its massive cash burn in the past three years has been paired with massive capital investments to fund future projects. In the past three years, Tesla has lost $3 billion on an operating basis and spent $6.3 billion on capital.

That is not a sustainable operating business model. Not even close.

So, that's the problem facing Tesla investors.  When will their blind faith and seemingly limitless wallets be rewarded with cash flows to return that investment? Short answer: never.

[ Appears he sure did get that part wrong: as per Q3/Q4 2018 positive cash flows over and above debt obligations in 2018/early 2019 ]

Quote
[...] in Q42016, implying annual production of Models S and X of 100,000 units.  Production of those two models—which had zero competition then, and to this day remain the only two battery-electric luxury models produced in more than token volume—continues today at a rate approximating 100,000, but Tesla is a vastly different company than it was 18 months ago.

The Model S changed the car industry forever, but after years of perfecting it, Musk changed Tesla forever.

In 2017, Musk introduced the Model 3 and merged Tesla with SolarCity [...]  Also in 2017, Tesla began mass production of battery modules at its Gigafactory 1 in Nevada and began construction on its Gigafactory 2 in upstate New York [ paid for by the New York State Govt's Taxpayer.]

All of these projects had been foreshadowed years in advance by Musk, and in total compose his vision for Tesla. Vision is one thing, cash flow is another, and as an investor, the spreadsheet has to be your guide.

[ EBITDA, or earnings before interest, taxes, depreciation and amortization, is a measure of a company's overall financial performance ... https://www.investopedia.com/terms/e/ebitda.asp ]
Quote
Tesla was barely able to produce positive EBITDA in 2017 ($3.9 million on $11.8 billion in revenues) and with a current enterprise value of $53.4 billion ($46.6 billion in equity plus $6.8 billion in net debt,) TSLA is trading at a mere [ /sarc ] 13,690 times its trailing EBITDA.

So, when does the valuation catch up with the financial realities of Tesla cash drain?  I think the future is now. Tesla shares have declined 10% this year, but I believe there is more correction required to calibrate the share price with the fundamentals.

[ Then came the short-lived Q3/Q4 sales and profits boost, delaying the expectations in April 2018 - however, the crunch issue here is post-q1 2019 have the fundamentals changed significantly on a year ago, if so then the inevitable repercussions have only been delayed - the big question today would be what is Tesla's trailing EBITDA been this year - now the share price has collapsed to only $210 / and collapsed to $36.85 Bln Market Cap? That's the homework ;) ]

Nothing has really changed that much up to today in relation to the authors closing comments:

Quote
That's the danger here, and there is a crucial data point coming with Tesla's 1Q 2018 earnings report after the market closes next Wednesday, May 2nd.  I'll have more next week on what to watch for in the earnings report, but, rest assured, Tesla's 1Q is not going to change the obvious takeaways from my spreadsheet.  The numbers don't add up for Tesla.

For it is that hard fact of life, and not "the media frenzy like the one that surrounds Tesla" nor the Social media/analyst's BULLSHIT, not the irrational claims of the fictional make-believe "Tesla Haters" out there, which is driving the massive Shorts on Tesla's Share price. 

[ Short Interest 37.93M 04/30/19 - % of Float Shorted 32.06%
- https://www.marketwatch.com/investing/stock/tsla ]

The "Shorters" are not responsible for Tesla's share price collapsing to $210 last week. That rests solely upon the shoulders of one Elon Musk and the Board at Tesla. Period!

Choices automatically come with Consequences!

What happens from here, is, imho, a Mystery.

<Try minimising the use of other commenters' names, even if embedded in posts that contain anti-Tesla propaganda; N.>

Quote
Neven: Sure, no problemo. But you'll get no propaganda from me Neven! False accusations sure, you'll get that in spades delivered right to your In-Box! I wish they didn't create so much unnecessary work for you Neven. :) Alas I suspect they don't realize how good they already got it.

Edit: And so it is that given the wall of noise of emotionally charged Elon Musk / All Things Tesla Fanbois all over the Internet, and the biased paid Pro-tesla "pseudo-analyst" shills, and Tesla propaganda blog sites and Twitterati everywhere (and being quoted here repeatedly), given that Tesla Shares are now at a multi-year LOW of $210.10 they'd all have to be idiots not to be buying every single Tesla share they can afford and put their money where their Spamming is.  But are they? This too is a Mystery. ::)
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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #2441 on: Today at 10:45:01 AM »
Quote
Bark (@BarkMSmeagol) 5/17/19, 1:29 PM
Even with the smear campaign firing on all cylinders 24/7 for years and years,

@Tesla’s brand value increased 60%. Great job #DumDums. You’re officially terrible at your job 

;D :D ;D :D ;D ...


Ha, what sad pathetic "joke" that is. What a waste of space too. ;)
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Lurk

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #2442 on: Today at 10:48:19 AM »
It's been said on Twitter that Tesla has burned through about $20 Billion of Investors / Venture Capital Cash to date 2019.

Quote
A Brief History Of Tesla: $19 Billion Raised And $9 Billion Of Negative Cash Flow

In 26 years analyzing the auto industry, I have never experienced a media frenzy like the one that surrounds Tesla.

Each tweet from CEO Elon Musk is parsed ad nauseum and sensational headlines scream about the company's production rates and customers' experience with its products.

As an investor, though, that wall of noise is, unfortunately, just noise.

What is needed to analyze Tesla stock—as opposed to the Tesla Phenomenon—is a simple, dispassionate reading of Tesla's financial statements.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jimcollins/2018/04/25/a-brief-history-of-tesla-19-billion-raised-and-9-billion-of-negative-cash-flow/

Quote
Tesla Retained Earnings (Accumulated Deficit) 2009-2019 | TSLA
Tesla retained earnings (accumulated deficit) for the quarter ending March 31, 2019 were $-5.923 Billion, a 17.26% increase year-over-year.
https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/TSLA/tesla/retained-earnings-accumulated-deficit

Quote

Tesla burns through $2 billion in 2017

Cash continues to flow out with Model 3 mired in production hell
https://www.theverge.com/2018/2/7/16986396/tesla-2017-full-year-earnings-model-3-production

Quote
Tesla lost $702 million last quarter after drop in Model 3 deliveries
It also says it doesn’t expect another profit until the third quarter of this year
https://www.theverge.com/2019/4/24/18514427/tesla-q1-2019-loss-model-3-elon-musk-earnings


I truly don't know how some people can sleep at night or live with themselves.
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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #2443 on: Today at 12:00:29 PM »
The June quarter: Seemingly running way behind plan (@half way mark)

Quote

You can appreciate that this estimate is, has been, and will always continue to be, a work-in-progess, as this model changes every single day - sometimes multiple times a day - in line with new data arriving from countries around the world.

At 73,994 units - let’s call it 74,000 for short - this Q2 estimate would represent a 22% shortfall from the mid-point of the quarter’s 90,000 to 100,000 unit guidance. 74,000 out of 95,000 is 77.9%. That’s still a better number than I thought approximately two weeks ago - but yet at the same time a huge shortfall compared to the expectations of many, including the company’s guidance and therefore its credibility.

The unit sales number is heavily influenced by pricing. It appears that Tesla has now instituted discounts over 25% in part of Europe, and 10%-20% in many other European countries: Alex_T on Twitter.

If my 74,000 unit sales number for Q2 turns out to be even close to correct, then it might explain why Tesla’s CEO is suddenly announcing- yet again - extreme expense control measures, and saying that the company had only 10 months of cash left. None of these are good signs for the company or its stock.

https://seekingalpha.com

 Let’s start with the quarter-to-date battery-electric vehicle sales numbers from Norway:

Source: EV registration statistics for The Netherlands, Norway and Spain
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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #2444 on: Today at 12:06:27 PM »

Tesla Pivots To Oblivion
May 17, 2019


Summary

The stock is a trade vehicle.

Financial metrics remain perilous.

Operating efficiencies lag necessities.

The company pivots toward Lyft and Uber.

Introduction
When the numbers speak, do not interrupt.

1. Stock

2. Finance

3. Market

4. Sales

5. Pivots

https://seekingalpha.com/article/4264912-tesla-pivots-oblivion
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