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Sigmetnow

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #3550 on: September 09, 2019, 07:57:18 PM »
...
BTW did you see the reddit comments about new construction beginning on the Giga3 site?  Talking about Phase 2.  I'm wondering where that will go to or if it is just ancillary buildings which are there to smooth the process?

Battery manufacturing, perhaps.  Musk has said that future gigafactories will make vehicles and batteries.
——
Edit:
Chao Zhou (@realChaoZhou) 9/9/19, 3:24 AM
Quote
GF3 continues piling, just talked to some security guys, they all admitted the second phase of gigafactory 3 project has already started.
It blows my mind.
 https://twitter.com/realchaozhou/status/1170961131138998272
- Still 24/7.
Video at link:  4-second pan across a very active build site

Another edit — article with video:

Tesla Gigafactory 3 expands with Phase 2 construction, ongoing 24/7 shifts
https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-gigafactory-3-construction-phase-2-video/
« Last Edit: September 09, 2019, 08:56:46 PM by Sigmetnow »
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gerontocrat

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #3551 on: September 09, 2019, 11:44:36 PM »
...
BTW did you see the reddit comments about new construction beginning on the Giga3 site?  Talking about Phase 2.  I'm wondering where that will go to or if it is just ancillary buildings which are there to smooth the process?

Battery manufacturing, perhaps.  Musk has said that future gigafactories will make vehicles and batteries.

Part of the strategy not to be caught by battery supply shortfalls due to exponential demand increase?
Has he also bough a mine or two to secure the materials required?
Mind you, with China as his new best friend should not be a problem there.
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #3552 on: September 10, 2019, 02:29:45 AM »
Quote
Battery manufacturing, perhaps.  Musk has said that future gigafactories will make vehicles and batteries.
Part of the strategy not to be caught by battery supply shortfalls due to exponential demand increase?
Has he also bough a mine or two to secure the materials required?
Mind you, with China as his new best friend should not be a problem there.

I’ve read about Tesla lithium contracts.  Musk has joked about going into the mining business....  Considering how he bought trucking companies when he ran into transport difficulties (and started The Boring Company because tunnel technology hadn’t advanced sufficiently; and bought a welding company location to build Starship North) — buying a few mines should surprise no one.

We know multiple battery manufacturers will be supplying Giga 3.  As you say, China supplies should be the least of his worries.
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TerryM

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #3553 on: September 10, 2019, 06:02:45 AM »
^^
The Musk family is certainly no stranger to the mining business.  :-\
It was after all Musk Emeralds that allowed them to live the opulent lifestyle they enjoyed and that fronted Elon's Empire.
I've no doubt that lessons learned digging for African Emeralds can be applied to Congolese Cobalt.
Terry


Rob Dekker

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #3554 on: September 10, 2019, 08:19:18 AM »
^^
The Musk family is certainly no stranger to the mining business.  :-\
It was after all Musk Emeralds that allowed them to live the opulent lifestyle they enjoyed and that fronted Elon's Empire.
I've no doubt that lessons learned digging for African Emeralds can be applied to Congolese Cobalt.
Terry

I'm not sure what your agenda is, Terry, but whatever it is, it ain't pretty.

Tesla has at this point the lowest Cobalt content of any battery supplier around :
https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-model-3-batteries-cobalt-volkswagen/

and Elon has repeatedly stated he wants to get rid of Cobalt in his batteries altogether :
https://cleantechnica.com/2018/06/17/teslas-cobalt-usage-to-drop-from-3-today-to-0-elon-commits/

It may not be easy to do so, since it may create performance and safety issues
https://www.theverge.com/2018/6/21/17488626/elon-musk-cobalt-electric-vehicle-battery-science

But to smear Elon for having Cobalt in his batteries is a new low, even for you Terry.
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #3555 on: September 10, 2019, 02:39:17 PM »
A lot of FUD being pushed recently about people supposedly falling asleep on Autopilot.  Here’s the reality:
Quote
Steve Jobs Ghost (@tesla_truth) 9/9/19, 9:33 PM
Tesla AutoPilot does not allow drivers to sleep behind the wheel
If the driver does not respond to attention prompts, the car will play a sound to try and get their attention /wake them up
If they still don't respond the car will automatically slow down and pull over

https://twitter.com/tesla_truth/status/1171235243895873543
[1-min video, focussed on the binnacle display.  Increasing beeps and visual warnings, emergency flashers on, Speed goes to 0.]

- Don't believe everything you hear online. There are a lot of people who spread fake information about Tesla online. AutoPilot is a life changing technology and a huge boost for safety, when used by a driver who is paying attention. Any issues can be fixed over the net
- Notice how the system asks the user to confirm they are awake by touching the wheel
Note how after the user fails to respond, AutoPilot locks them out of using the system for the rest of the drive
a lot of thought has been put into designing a safe system
nobody reports this
- Notice also how the car continues to drive just fine and safely pulls over even though the driver is potentially asleep
in any other car, a sleeping driver would kill themselves and maybe others
    [same video as above:] What happens when you fall asleep with your Tesla on Autopilot - YouTube
   

- and here's a video that demonstrates the same thing on your Model 3:
Quote
—Don't believe sensationalized media reports claiming Tesla drivers are falling asleep while the car drives itself.
The system handles a situation where a driver is unconscious by trying to get the driver's attention, and pulling over if needed.
In any other car you'd be dead
https://twitter.com/tesla_truth/status/1171301195941466112 
[2-min vid from Now You Know: “I’m in autopilot, and I’m about to lose consciousness.”]
Quote
Elon Musk (@elonmusk) 9/10/19, 4:09 AM
@tesla_truth Exactly
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1171334805088137216
Tesla Owners Silicon Valley (@teslaownersSV) 9/10/19, 4:10 AM
@elonmusk @tesla_truth We are going to meet with a reporter tomorrow to show this. I don't get why there is such a lack of knowledge on this.
Tesla Owners Silicon Valley (@teslaownersSV) 9/9/19, 10:12 PM
Hi @abc7newsbayarea @ChrisNguyenABC7 would you be open for us to give you a test drive to show how something like this is impossible?
Chris Nguyen (@ChrisNguyenABC7) 9/9/19, 11:34 PM
Hey John! Great to hear from you. I’ll send you a DM.
—-
Quote
Steve Jobs Ghost (@tesla_truth) 9/9/19, 3:46 AM
If you notice that someone has fallen asleep behind the wheel of their Tesla, honk to wake them up.
If they don’t wake up call 911 — there may be a medical situation
Avoid making funny videos / posts for social media until you’ve ensured everyone is safe
https://twitter.com/tesla_truth/status/1170966608958803968
- however note that most of these videos you see are not real
sometimes think think the diver was sleeping and they were not, and sometimes it’s staged
shocking I know not everything on the internet is true
most real people would have the common decency to help
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Archimid

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #3556 on: September 10, 2019, 03:20:42 PM »
Of course, you never get a chance to record a sleeping driver in any other car. You just see the accident.
I am an energy reservoir seemingly intent on lowering entropy for self preservation.

TerryM

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #3557 on: September 10, 2019, 08:22:22 PM »

But to smear Elon for having Cobalt in his batteries is a new low, even for you Terry.


Your reading comprehension needs a little work Rob, but your ad-hominems are still right up there. :P
Terry
 

Sigmetnow

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #3558 on: September 10, 2019, 08:38:14 PM »
—- Tesla Q3 shipping increase
Quote
Quote
Franco Mossotto (@FMossotto) 9/9/19, 5:12 PM
#HoeghOslo is likely the first ship for Tesla leaving from US East coast to Europe
#12 ship in Q3
#41 ship in 2019
#Tesla #Model3 #TeslaCarriers bit.ly/TeslaCarriers
https://twitter.com/fmossotto/status/1171169589432115200
Marine Traffic ship ID info pic at the link.

Quote
Alp Soycengiz (@Alpsoy66) 9/9/19, 5:27 PM
Amazing work. U found it @FMossotto .Congrats. Now the numbers add up. $tsla shipping 7 vessels to Europe and using eastern route . More than 30k $tsla vehicles to be delivered to Europe in Q3
https://twitter.com/alpsoy66/status/1171173205358329857

—- Netherlands deliveries up markedly
Quote
Alp Soycengiz (@Alpsoy66) 9/10/19, 7:44 AM
Q3 QTD Netherlands deliveries picked up very significantly. Model3 is poised to break all auto sales records in the Netherlands in Q3.
https://twitter.com/alpsoy66/status/1171389095471452162
Data image below.

—- Tesla opens Model 3 orders in Iceland. (Three superchargers are “coming soon.”)
Quote
Tesla (@Tesla) 9/9/19, 2:27 AM
...
Tesla vehicle orders open for Iceland NOW
https://twitter.com/tesla/status/1170946758412656640

—- Grid connect to Giga 3
Quote
Vincent (@vincent13031925) 9/10/19, 1:36 PM
Shanghai govt: The 220 kV electric power supporting strategic project of Tesla Shanghai Gigafactory GF3 was officially started. 16.7 km cable has been completed today. Expected power transmission conditions will be available by the end of Sept.
https://twitter.com/vincent13031925/status/1171477667360563200


—- Permit for “GA5” assembly line in Fremont — Model Y?
Tesla permit application hints at another Fremont assembly line
Quote
SAN FRANCISCO -- Tesla Inc. has applied for a permit from the city home to its lone assembly plant that hints the electric-car maker could be planning another assembly line there.

The permit application to the city of Fremont, California, describes the project as “GA5 demo and rough grading.” GA refers to general assembly, and CEO Elon Musk has previously said that Tesla has been running several lines to produce the Model 3, S and X.

It’s unclear from the application whether the line has anything to do with Tesla’s upcoming Model Y crossover, which the company was preparing for in Fremont before second-quarter earnings were announced on July 24. Space is tight at the factory, with workers already making some Model 3 sedans on an assembly line under a massive tent erected outside the facility. While the structure was initially mocked by critics, it’s helped boost production and support record deliveries.

Tesla representatives didn’t immediately respond to a request for comment on the permit application.
https://www.autonews.com/manufacturing/tesla-permit-application-hints-another-fremont-assembly-line
« Last Edit: September 10, 2019, 08:53:04 PM by Sigmetnow »
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #3559 on: September 10, 2019, 09:03:09 PM »
Background on Model Y production plans:

Tesla is working on 5th assembly line at Fremont factory ahead of Model Y production
Quote
When it was operated by Toyota and GM, the plant had a capacity of about 500,000 vehicles per year.

Tesla has achieved an annualized production rate of about 300,000 cars at the factory, and it has talked about raising the capacity to 500,000 units per year.  But CEO Elon Musk previously mentioned that he sees potential for Tesla making up to 1 million cars per year at the Fremont factory.

With this potential for higher output, Tesla considered the Fremont factory as a location to produce the new Model Y. After about a year of debating it, the automaker confirmed in July that it will build Model Y in Fremont.

Tesla commented on the Model Y production program:
”Preparations for Model Y production in Fremont began in Q2. Due to a significant overlap of components between Model 3 and Model Y, we are able to leverage existing manufacturing designs in the development of the Model Y production facilities. Additionally, we are making progress managing Model Y cost with only a minimal cost premium expected over Model 3. Due to the large market size for SUVs, as well as higher ASPs, we believe Model Y will be a more profitable product than the Model 3.”

Now we learn that these preparations are involving the installation of a new general assembly line at the factory. ...
https://electrek.co/2019/09/10/tesla-new-assembly-line-fremont-factory-model-y-production/
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philopek

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #3560 on: September 10, 2019, 10:30:59 PM »

But to smear Elon for having Cobalt in his batteries is a new low, even for you Terry.


Your reading comprehension needs a little work Rob, but your ad-hominems are still right up there. :P
Terry

+1

My thoughts exactly but nothing surprising to see in this place. Name of the thread should have the addendum: Don't you dare .....

It's incredible that so-called environmentalists and people interested to "save the world" discuss so much in favor of a technology that is a workaround at best and is certainly part of the next big problems, filling one hole with new illusionary workarounds.

Drive less, drive less heavy vehicles, limit milage per capita depending on job and location (according to needs) find ways to fill four or more seaters with >1-2 people, share cars instead of
parking them most of the time in front of homes and offices.

If a auto-fan argues with me I at least understand that it can be fun to have and drive a nice car but
in this thread/forum it's outright frustrating to read all the non-sense, quasi solutions and arguments containing the excuse for failure right within.

KiwiGriff

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #3561 on: September 10, 2019, 11:36:09 PM »
Yess
Not going to happen. To ban personal transport would be suicidal to any democratic national government that tried it . Even than doing away with personal transport  would only be possible in large city's or a few small states that are compact and densely populated  like Hong kong or Singapore.
Meantime  your idea's work only if transport is decoupled from fossil fuels and would be far more doable if we do get full self drive cars.
Tesla is doing more to drive advance's in these technology's into a usable solution than almost any one else .

Like climate change deniers most of the anti crap doesn't even meet the standards of basic logic let alone being based on factual evidence.
They also ignore the logical inconsistency's and lack of factual support in the arguments of others from their side.

TerryM

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #3562 on: September 10, 2019, 11:58:27 PM »
KiwiG


Could you give us a hint at who or what you're responding to?


Went back as far as your last post and I'm still mystified.
Thanks
Terry

cognitivebias2

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #3563 on: September 11, 2019, 12:32:38 AM »
He's clearly responding to Philopek. 


And a +1 for the response.  And many thanks for the quality content, especially from NeilT and Sigmetnow.

« Last Edit: September 11, 2019, 12:40:21 AM by cognitivebias2 »

oren

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #3564 on: September 11, 2019, 03:49:43 AM »
Drive less, drive less heavy vehicles, limit milage per capita depending on job and location (according to needs) find ways to fill four or more seaters with >1-2 people, share cars instead of
parking them most of the time in front of homes and offices.
I agree.

Not going to happen. To ban personal transport would be suicidal to any democratic national government that tried it . Even than doing away with personal transport  would only be possible in large city's or a few small states that are compact and densely populated  like Hong Kong or Singapore.
I agree.

In any case, this discussion is IMHO outside the scope of this thread.

KiwiGriff

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #3565 on: September 11, 2019, 06:31:45 AM »
Reliability by brand for cars up to five years old.
Rank   Brand   Score
1.   Lexus    99.3%
2.   Toyota   97.7%
3.   Suzuki   97.3%.
4.   Tesla   96.9%
5.   Subaru   96.6%
6.   Kia   96.3%
7.   Hyundai   95.7%
8.   Mini   95.4%
9.   Skoda   95.2%
10.   Honda    94.9%
11.   Volvo   94.7%
12.   Dacia   94.5%
13.   Mitsubishi   94.3%
14.   Ford   94.1%
15.   Seat   93.8%
16.   Volkswagen   93.7%
17.   Mazda   93.5%
18.   Peugeot   93.4%
19.   Fiat   93.3%
20.   Audi   92.9%
21.   BMW   92.1%
22.   Citroen   91.8%
23.   Porsche   91.7%
24.   Mercedes   90.6%
25.   Alfa Romeo   89.7%
26.   Jaguar   89.5%
27.   Vauxhall   89.4%
28.   Nissan   85.7%
29.   Jeep   84.4%
30.   Renault   84.2%
31.   Land Rover   81.3%
https://www.whatcar.com/news/2019-what-car-reliability-survey/n20069
Tesla is focused on Continuous improvement.
A brand that was lowest in last years whatcars survey  is now four from the top.

You just know  fudsters will still quote last years result into the foreseeable future.
 


Rob Dekker

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #3566 on: September 11, 2019, 10:31:52 AM »

But to smear Elon for having Cobalt in his batteries is a new low, even for you Terry.


Your reading comprehension needs a little work Rob, but your ad-hominems are still right up there. :P
Terry

Nice projecting, Terry.

Your comment was this :

Quote
The Musk family is certainly no stranger to the mining business.  :-\
It was after all Musk Emeralds that allowed them to live the opulent lifestyle they enjoyed and that fronted Elon's Empire.
I've no doubt that lessons learned digging for African Emeralds can be applied to Congolese Cobalt.
Terry

which was not just off-topic for the thread, but a smear at Musk and his Cobalt use in Tesla batteries.

Why, Terry ? What is your problem with Musk ?

Afraid of somebody actually making a difference when it comes to carbon emissions ?
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NeilT

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #3567 on: September 11, 2019, 10:32:34 AM »
In any case, this discussion is IMHO outside the scope of this thread.

I do agree, apart from where it impacts on the market for Tesla and the success, or failure, thereof.

If attitudes do change, then it will change the vehicle market overall and there will be a lot of failures.

If we really want to get into the samantics of responsibility, we can delve into evangelists who won't even rent ground to grow their own food....

But that is waaaay outside the scope of this thread.

@KwikGriff, you get a lot more purchase with the inconsistency thing here than WUWT. The last time I pointed that out over there I got an apology from Admin because of the threatening tone of the responses.
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KiwiGriff

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #3568 on: September 11, 2019, 12:05:34 PM »
I felt it was valid to address philopek's reasoning for objecting to Tesla.

Some of the ideas promulgated by the radical faction on here smell like the khmer rouge.

We live in a technological industrial era.
FWIW I personally live the "good life", off grid, grow much of my own food, and do not needlessly consume . I  don't believe that you can expect every one else to willingly do the same. I also are aware that I require the technology's and industry's those running on civilizations hamster wheels give us to maintain my lifestyle.

  I do not see any alternative to the technological industrial paradigm without the earths population declining by five billion or so.  Tesla is a leading force in the changes we need to maintain our civilization at the level we now enjoy, hence why I support their efforts.


Sigmetnow

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #3569 on: September 11, 2019, 06:07:23 PM »
      ;D Prague:
Quote
Sara Boutall (@sara_boutall) 9/11/19, 4:37 AM
Hilarious scenes at @FuturePortPRG where there’s people pushing and queuing to see/test drive this beautiful Tesla all while all other car stands lay pretty much abandoned  #ThePublicKnow
https://twitter.com/sara_boutall/status/1171704181146755073
Exhibit A: a Tesla that people are literally running behind to get a photo with (queue for actual test drive too long)
Exhibit B: Audi E-Tron stand

- Ahahaha omg someone literally came to the Tesla queue and excitedly said ‘hey guys, anyone wanna try the Jaguar?’ And the crowd was DEATHLY SILENT
Photos below.
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #3570 on: September 11, 2019, 06:20:47 PM »
Reliability by brand for cars up to five years old.
Rank   Brand   Score
1.   Lexus    99.3%
2.   Toyota   97.7%
3.   Suzuki   97.3%.
4.   Tesla   96.9%
<snip>

Quote
Alex Roy (@AlexRoy144) 9/11/19, 9:30 AM
The most disruptive thing Tesla could do would be to make their cars as reliable as they are innovative.
https://twitter.com/alexroy144/status/1171778112222367745
- Tesla biggest advantage isn’t UI or battery efficiency, it’s end-to-end UX.[User Experience]
When everything works, no one can touch it.
When things don’t, there’s no alternative.
Ergo, improving reliability ASAP is more important than sales.
Build it well, and sales will come.

Angel N Devil: When they reach there, it’s game over. That is the point when Tesla takes out a few automotive OEMs out of business like Apple did in the world of smartphones.
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NeilT

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #3571 on: September 11, 2019, 06:46:20 PM »
There is also an interesting point that the 5 year window is rolling.  Which means that the reliability fixes that Tesla roll in every quarter will push that reliability figure higher as the older, less reliable, vehicles fall out of the table.

I won't say that the days of volume over quality have vanished.  But they are clearly reducing.
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #3572 on: September 11, 2019, 07:43:56 PM »
Tesla (TSLA) is currently undervalued despite its lead in EV race, says analysts
Quote
Tesla stock (NASDAQ:TSLA) might have generally calmed down from the volatility it displayed in recent months, but the electric car maker’s shares may still be undervalued. This is despite Tesla maintaining a lead in the electric car race amidst the introduction of competitors from established automakers such as Audi and Porsche.

JMP analyst Joseph Osha, for one, currently gives TSLA stock an “Outperform” rating along with a price target of $337. This implies an upside of about 45% compared to the company’s recent levels.

In recent statements related by TipRanks, Osha stated that he believes “Tesla’s leading competitive position in the electric vehicle market supports (his) positive stance on the stock.” The JMP analyst added that the “weak” product launches of competitors makes him “even more confident that Tesla can hold on to its leading position.”
...
Tesla’s lead in the electric car market was also highlighted by Macquarie analyst Maynard Um, who recently reiterated his “Outperform” rating and his optimistic $400 price target on TSLA stock. Similar to Osha’s statements, the Macquarie analyst justified his bullish stance on Tesla by citing the Silicon Valley-based electric car maker’s evident lead over competitors such as Porsche, particularly in terms of software and pricing. ...
https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-tsla-undervalued-range-price-lead-analysts/
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #3573 on: September 11, 2019, 08:09:43 PM »
Tesla Gigafactory 3 substation on track for activation by end of September
Quote
Similar to Tesla and its construction partner’s other projects in the Gigafactory 3 complex, the buildout of the substation also saw a significant degree of support from the local Shanghai government and its related departments. Barring any delays in its end-of-September target, the activation of Gigafactory 3’s substation could end up taking no more than 159 days, which is about twice as fast as normal.

The completion of the southwest substation is key to the operations of Tesla’s electric car production facility. Once the substation is complete, it will be capable of transmitting power to the rest of the Gigafactory 3 complex, which could, in turn, open the doors for trial Model 3 production activities. Thus, if the substation starts operations in late September, trial production runs of the Model 3 at Gigafactory 3 this month could be plausible. ...
https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-gigafactory-3-substation-september-activation/
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KiwiGriff

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #3574 on: September 11, 2019, 08:52:38 PM »
On the reliability.
lets not fool ourselfs that it is truly representative at this early stage.
The flood of model 3's has skewed the demographic towards newer cars.
The S and X suffered from well known faults like the early transmission issue, the door handles failing and the reliability of the falcon wing doors.
It is good there does not appear to be any major mechanical problems in the 3 at this stage. 

Sigmetnow

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #3575 on: September 11, 2019, 10:06:18 PM »
“VW only has words of praise for the Tesla founder Elon Musk.”

Volkswagen CSO on the company's newest electric car: 'Without Elon Musk, my job would have been much more difficult'
Quote
"Elon Musk certainly helped us. We looked at how he did it and how we want to do it. Even today, we still ask ourselves: 'In what areas is he better than us and where do we have to overtake him — and where not?'" says Jost.

One would think that Tesla is actually a competitor for VW on the e-car market. But in Wolfsburg, people surprisingly only have words of praise about the carmaker from Silicon Valley. "Tesla can do many things better because the company does not have a base. We already have a huge working model that needs to be completely transformed. But Elon Musk doesn't have that. He simply produces electric cars," says Jost. The chief strategist adds: "He doesn't have any brands to position. He focuses on electromobility and a sensible design. In principle, that's it. Tesla does a good job in many areas, whether it be in performance or battery concepts."
https://www.businessinsider.com/volkswagen-credits-elon-musk-after-rolling-out-first-electric-car-2019-9
(Note: Business Insider is owned by a German conglomerate and has historically leaned anti-Tesla.)

Quote
< Can we talk bout the 33bil$ in 3 years they [VW] going to spend lol

JPR007:  No.
First we should talk about all those billions they spent on DieselGate to make themselves more vulnerable to EVs.
Then we should look at the amount of capital that Tesla has raised and deployed from nothing to become the global Leader in BEVs.

JPR007 (@jpr007) 9/11/19, 4:57 AM
THEN we can be ready to look at how much VW intends to spend to try and become a Follower in BEVs.
At the moment they are only an Also-Ran who do not yet show up on the global scorecard.
https://twitter.com/jpr007/status/1171709458059128832
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gerontocrat

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #3576 on: September 11, 2019, 10:22:31 PM »
EV sales in August 2019

UK
New owners registered 2,082 Tesla Model 3 cars in August, according to data published on Thursday by the Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders (SMMT).
SMMT say total car sales c.f. Aug 2018 down 1.6%, but BEVs up 377% at 3,159. So Tesla 3 has the market sewn up.
https://europe.autonews.com/automakers/tesla-model-3-was-uks-no-3-selling-car-august
The Tesla Model 3 was the No. 3-selling new car in the UK in August, finishing behind the Ford Fiesta and Volkswagen Golf.
It's the first time a full-electric car has been in the UK's overall ranking of top 10 selling models.

I expect a lot of Europe bought a lot of Tesla's

China. Lots of speculation but no hard data

US - Flat
               Jul   Aug
Model 3   13450   13150
Model X   1225     1825
Model S   975           1050
Total          15650   16025

Seems that EVs having a rough time as are all auto sales in most of the world.
Will Europe do the biz enough in August & September to keep the shorters at bay?

Will China's subsidy changes do enough to benefit Tesla?

"Faites vos jeux", "Place your bets", have some bad-tempered arguments about it all.
After all, why wait for the data?
"Para a Causa do Povo a Luta Continua!"
"And that's all I'm going to say about that". Forrest Gump
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philopek

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #3577 on: September 11, 2019, 10:45:21 PM »
EV sales in August 2019

The Tesla Model 3 was the No. 3-selling new car in the UK in August,

Everything is correct with the number, nevertheless they have to be seen in context.

Teslas sales numbers always soar for some time after a delivery has reached a specific country while no more news about once the wave has ebbed back to normal (low) sales.

Tesla delivers in waves and in bulk to specific markets to make exactly this kind of marketing relevant headlines and after that people believe for a year that those are regular numbers.

For Tesla and it's fanboys it's like the positive end of the same mechanism that happens once
a headline asking: "Did the husband kill his wife?" and never come back 3 years later after acquittal that it wasn't him.

There is a modern term for it that i won't use due to it's origin that i dislike ;) ;)
« Last Edit: September 12, 2019, 01:29:04 AM by philopek »

KiwiGriff

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #3578 on: September 11, 2019, 11:40:10 PM »

Quote
Teslas sales numbers always soar for some time after a delivery has reached a specific country while no more news about once the wave has ebbed back to normal (low) sales.

Ah yes "low sales".
Dominating the fastest growing car segment is "low sales".
https://insideevs.com/news/368729/ev-sales-scorecard-august-2019/
https://cleantechnica.com/2019/07/29/huge-tesla-high-tide-in-europe-june-ev-sales-report/
 ROFL
Low sales only if you live in lala land.



cognitivebias2

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #3579 on: September 12, 2019, 12:01:28 AM »
There is a way to put a negative spin on anything.  This is the service provided by Philopek to this thread. 

Meanwhile, in US sales, Tesla logged a pathetic 87% increase Q2-19 over Q2-18:

http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/u-s-auto-sales-figures-by-brand/#vwspc-section-4

Tesla outsells names like Cadillac, Acura, Infinity.  Similar sales to names like Audi, Buick.  Chasing down names like Lexus, BMW.  Slow indeed.


Sigmetnow

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #3580 on: September 12, 2019, 02:11:52 AM »
Tesla is balancing deliveries to different countries with an eye on incentives, too.  The U.S. tax credit is down to $1,875, so U.S. deliveries may have a lower priority than in prior quarters, although the credit does disappear entirely at the end of the year.  Orderers in the UK would probably very much like to get their cars before Brexit happens.  Netherlands buyers would like to get their cars before their Benefit in Kind tax on EVs doubles to 8% from 4% at the end of 2019, and there are other changes in other countries.  New Iceland buyers are being told to expect their cars in “the first part of 2020.”

Tesla reports that it has a backlog of new orders (and only a few remaining reservations), so it is a balancing act of trying to best satisfy the most people with a limited supply of cars, plus transport ships that must be scheduled (months?) in advance, and packed delivery centers that can only process so many cars a week....

The Dutch government announced the planned increase of the benefit-in-kind (BiK) tax to push BEVs to the standard level of 22% by 2026.
https://insideevs.com/news/358500/netherlands-phase-out-bik-tax-incentive-evs/

Edit:
Source in China says Tesla sales have increased dramatically there after the recent auto purchase tax exemption. It gives about a $5000-$15000 USD saving.

https://twitter.com/vincent13031925/status/1171844578703376387

« Last Edit: September 12, 2019, 03:37:21 AM by Sigmetnow »
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NeilT

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #3581 on: September 12, 2019, 11:31:50 AM »
I must admit the logic of calling Tesla sales Market Entry figures with no follow up, when Tesla is still growing in the US, but also up in the top 5 for market segment, every month, as rather bizarre.

If anything Tesla sales in the US are solid for the market climate.  Unlike other vehicles which are seeing a significant decline.

As for other areas.  Lest it is missed in the backwards and forwards, the US market is around 320 million people.  The EU market is around 540 million people.


Break that down a little bit and the UK is RHD, so you can shave around 65m off that figure for vehicles manufactured for the mainland.  Ireland is RHD too but the numbers are too low to matter.

On the + side for RHD models, you get Australia, NZ, Japan, India, Pakistan, Malaysia, Indonesia...  Which means that those vehicles are hardly destined for a niche market and have Significant headroom to grow sales and the manufacturing of these orientation vehicles is not a "market entry" splash with a high production cost.

Tesla is opening markets, all over the world, to mass market EV.  They are becoming an international vehicle manufacturer which is driving their vehicle numbers up and up.  This is going to jump once the Shanghai factory comes online too.

Tesla numbers, in the next 3-5 years, have nowhere else but UP to go.

Today Tesla is crushing everyone in EV sales. Of course it won't last.  But then, also, the EV market will not remain niche.  So whilst they will not have such a large % of the overall EV market, the size of the market will be so much larger that Tesla will certainly be selling more vehicles than today.

Which is just as well otherwise they'd be in trouble with the regulators for having a monopoly.  Even if it was the incumbents who virtually forced that monopoly on them by refusing to compete..



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Sigmetnow

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #3582 on: September 12, 2019, 03:48:11 PM »
That Model S in Germany for the Nürburgring trial?  It’s a Model S with Plaid Mode — the one beyond Ludicrous mode. :)  And it’s coming to production S/X/Roadsters next year.  “The ultimate smack-down to ICE cars.”

Quote
Elon Musk (@elonmusk) 9/11/19, 9:42 PM
The only thing beyond Ludicrous is Plaid
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1171962132721614848
< 3 motors on the new Model S with Plaid Mode? 
EM: Yes. To be clear, Plaid powertrain is about a year away from production & applies to S,X & Roadster, but not 3 or Y. Will cost more than our current offerings, but less than competitors.
< Is plaid included for base and founders series roadsters?
EM: yes
< What happens when Roadster w/ SpaceX package goes Plaid? Warping the fabric of spacetime?
<< Travel back in time!
EM: Flux capacitor option package
< So what “mode” is Plaid with the SpaceX package?
EM: Spaceballs

< If Plaid Model S trim is a thing, were gonna need the deets
https://twitter.com/mkbhd/status/1171962708893343744
Elon Musk (@elonmusk) 9/11/19, 9:54 PM
Soon

 < Can the model 3 get plaid too?
EM: No

Elon Musk (@elonmusk) 9/12/19, 2:12 AM
Model S at Nürburgring has 7 seats
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1172030269756305408
< Why though?
EM: To carry 7 people
< Define “people”

Elon Musk teases Tesla Model S updates: ‘Plaid Powertrain,’ triple motors, 7-seat option, and higher price
Sightings of a Tesla Model S P100D+ unit near the Nürburgring have caught the electric car community by storm, particularly due to the vehicle’s unique characteristics.
https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-next-gen-model-s-plaid-powertrain-specs-elon-musk/

——-  ALSO:
Model S owner goes to service center for HEPA filter replacement.  Comes home with new filter — and a Hardware 3.0 computer.
Tesla begins retrofits of Hardware 3 Full Self-Driving computer on selected cars
https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-hardware-3-retrofit-full-self-driving-computer-model-s-x/
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NeilT

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #3583 on: September 12, 2019, 05:00:54 PM »
And a Swedish insurance company doesn't list Tesla on their safest car list because they can't get enough accident data.  Because....  Only 7 accidents last year.

https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-disqualified-safest-cars-list-few-crashes/amp/

Granted it is probably due to the small number of vehicles on the road.  But it makes bizarre headlines though.
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #3584 on: September 12, 2019, 05:44:57 PM »
And a Swedish insurance company doesn't list Tesla on their safest car list because they can't get enough accident data.  Because....  Only 7 accidents last year.

https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-disqualified-safest-cars-list-few-crashes/amp/

Granted it is probably due to the small number of vehicles on the road.  But it makes bizarre headlines though.

Anecdotally... people who crash in other cars are often persuaded by loved ones to buy a Tesla to replace it, for safety reasons.
Quote
Same for my Mom. Accident totaled her 2009 Subaru Legacy. She replaced it with a 2019 Model 3 SR+, purchased back in May. She's 73 and she loves it.
https://twitter.com/johneg78/status/1171638449646034947
« Last Edit: September 12, 2019, 05:55:42 PM by Sigmetnow »
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #3585 on: September 14, 2019, 12:48:32 AM »
The Secret Of Tesla’s Success Is Not Selling Cars: It’s Being Able To Anticipate The Future
https://www.forbes.com/sites/enriquedans/2019/09/09/the-secret-of-teslas-success-is-not-selling-cars-its-being-able-to-anticipate-thefuture/

—-
Breaking: 28% Decrease In Tesla “Lost Work Day Injuries” At Fremont Factory, + Sensor Suits & Virtual Reality For Better Ergonomics
https://cleantechnica.com/2019/09/10/breaking-28-decrease-in-tesla-lost-work-day-injuries-at-fremont-factory-sensor-suits-virtual-reality-for-ergonomics/

——
Tesla Model 3 owners flood Beijing DMV after China rolls out purchase tax exemption
https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-model-3-owners-china-purchase-tax-exemption/

——
Quote
Quote
Chad Mortensen (@mortchad) 9/12/19, 1:54 PM
Doth mine eyes deceive me? That’s a @Tesla #ModelX bossing through that flooded area like it ain’t no thang? …
https://twitter.com/mortchad/status/1172206750457421824
24 second video at the link: live reporter vs. a Model X ;D

Quote
Elon Musk (@elonmusk) 6/19/16, 11:25 AM
We *def* don't recommended this, but Model S floats well enough to turn it into a boat for short periods of time. Thrust via wheel rotation.
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/744551674082136066

—— ;D
Quote
Mark (@medial_mark) 8/24/19, 11:17 PM
More people have said congratulations when we bought our @Tesla than when we had our first child. Not even kidding.
https://twitter.com/medial_mark/status/1165998424769957890
« Last Edit: September 14, 2019, 12:55:30 AM by Sigmetnow »
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #3586 on: September 14, 2019, 09:56:46 PM »
Three standard sizes.  Order in 5 minutes online.  Pay as low as $1.01 per watt.

Tesla Announces Simple Pricing On Commercial Solar, $1.01/Watt (Will Blow Some Minds)
Quote
Many will focus on how this makes it so easy to buy commercial sizes of solar. They are banking on you trusting the Tesla brand name to give you good pricing, quality, and reliability — enough so that you will just fill out the 12 fields and put the $100 on your corporate credit card. If this works, it will slash the marketing and sales costs of commercial solar, and that could help cut the costs of solar acquisition.
https://cleantechnica.com/2019/09/14/tesla-announces-simple-pricing-on-commercial-solar-1-01-watt-will-blow-some-minds/

Elon Musk replied:
Quote
Elon Musk (@elonmusk) 9/14/19, 3:51 PM
Good analysis. You can order commercial solar in literally 30 secs if you use Apple Pay at Tesla.com/bigsolar.
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1172960999856410625
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Archimid

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #3587 on: September 15, 2019, 10:10:26 AM »
The average electricity rate in the US is 13.19 cents per kilowatt hour (kWh).

https://www.electricchoice.com/electricity-prices-by-state/
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #3588 on: September 15, 2019, 03:34:22 PM »
First there was derision. Then mockery turned into admiration. Now a battle is unfolding between two of the most revered names in the automobile world, Porsche and Tesla Inc. on one of the world’s most challenging race tracks.
Quote
Took Porsche more than 7 years to respond to the Model S. It took Tesla 1 week to respond to Porsche.

    It’s Porsche Versus Tesla Facing Off in Germany’s Green Hell
   https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-09-13/it-s-porsche-versus-tesla-facing-it-off-in-germany-s-green-hell

https://twitter.com/dimas_______/status/1172602927371804672

Tesla’s ‘Plaid Powertrain’ could be game over for the Taycan before it’s begun
https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-plaid-powertrain-porsche-taycan-game-over/
But will S/X sales slow temporarily, due to Tesla customers waiting for the (more expensive) Plaid versions?

Note: Statements that the Taycan’s Nürburgring run was accomplished on a stock production vehicle is belied by photos, and the fact that the run was done on August 26, whereas the first day of Taycan production was Sept 9.
( https://twitter.com/28delayslater/status/1171924099188346882 )
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GoSouthYoungins

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #3589 on: September 17, 2019, 06:00:59 AM »
Super Liar is at it again.

https://gizmodo.com/elon-musk-i-was-using-the-other-definition-of-pedo-guy-1838156856


It is very telling of your values and your character that y'all respect this serial pathological liar.

Back in 2012 I was a big fan of Tesla. Over the years I grew suspicious. Then the Solar City thing really made me question if Musk was a fraud. Finally the 420 funding secured tweet resolved the issue. Ever since I have hated the cult-leading fraudulent liar cuz, you know, I'm a decent person who has some morals.


In other Musk-is-evil news...

The fElon was reportedly being advised by know serial pedophile Jeffrey Epstein.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/12/business/jeffrey-epstein-interview.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage
big time oops

Rob Dekker

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #3590 on: September 17, 2019, 09:25:01 AM »
Back in 2012 I was a big fan of Tesla. Over the years I grew suspicious. Then the Solar City thing really made me question if Musk was a fraud. Finally the 420 funding secured tweet resolved the issue. Ever since I have hated the cult-leading fraudulent liar cuz, you know, I'm a decent person who has some morals.

OKidoki.

Now, do you have the same "cult-leading fraudulent liar" feelings about other successful guys like, I don't know, Jeff Bezos for example ?

If not, why not ?
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Neven

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #3591 on: September 17, 2019, 09:52:21 AM »
OKidoki.

Now, do you have the same "cult-leading fraudulent liar" feelings about other successful guys like, I don't know, Jeff Bezos for example ?

If not, why not ?

Whataboutism!  ;D
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NeilT

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #3592 on: September 17, 2019, 10:38:38 AM »

It is very telling of your values and your character that y'all respect this serial pathological liar.


Let me see.

So we have a guy who has done 3 things.

1. Bought a failing company which falls within the scope of the incorporated goal of the company he is CEO of.

2. Tweeted the details of private internal company business which moved the market

3. Used a slur against a very stand up guy because he was annoyed, in a late night twitter tirade.

Now let me see.  When Musk bought Solar city, his board OK'd it and it was not a company breaking move.  For which he got staff, manufacturing facilities, patents and an order book.

For the 420 thing, I have no doubt of two things, firstly that Musk was annoyed with the shorts and secondly that he was in quite serious talks to take the company private.

If you are unsure of this, you only need to look at the SEC and justice dept restrictions on Musk to see what behaviour they targeted.

For the late night twitter rant when frustrated at being laughed at for trying to help? When I was younger the biggest slur to a normal person was to call them homosexual.  Today that is completely gone, but calling people a paedophile has taken that place. Musk was guilty of nothing more than losing it in a flame war.  It was the press exposure which blew it out of all proportion.

This is what the courts are for. And it is working.  First Musk is paying the price.  Second, he is becoming more cautious as a result.

Now, let's look on the other side.

Musk has used his financial resources, technical ability and marketing abilities/management abilities to:

- create rockets which are reuseable, cheap and reduce the barrier to space. His company also has the most powerful operating rocket and is well on the way to building a reuseable heavy launch system to rival and exceed the Atlas rockets.

- created the single most desirable EV brand in the world, with World class sales and having created a market which is driving world EV sales and competition

- Created a vehicle management computer which is a world leader for compute power on low power drain and heat emissions, making it the undisputed leader in that space. (I wouldn't bother arguing that, this is part of my day job).

I'm not even going to talk about tunnelling.  That will evolve over the next few decades.

Personal solar power and home power stores are a sideshow and a nice to have. Not even worth talking about.

But, of course, you are right.  He is a serial liar, has not delivered a single thing he committed to and needs to be in Jail forthwith.

I, of course, don't have a clue and should shut up.  So I'm going to do that now.
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Archimid

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #3593 on: September 17, 2019, 11:01:59 AM »
This is the video that precipitated the events. Vernon Unsworth, insulting Elon Musk efforts on the rescue attempt. Elon should have taken the high road, but Vernon Unsworth is most certainly creepy.

https://money.cnn.com/video/technology/2018/07/15/vernon-unsworth.cnnmoney/index.html

"He can stick his submarine where it hurts" (creepy smile)

And this submarine is what Elon Musk and his people did after several weeks of brainstorming and hard work to rescue the children.
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nukefix

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #3594 on: September 17, 2019, 11:15:32 AM »
Where are the profits? Will there ever be any?

GoSouthYoungins

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #3595 on: September 17, 2019, 03:57:02 PM »
Back in 2012 I was a big fan of Tesla. Over the years I grew suspicious. Then the Solar City thing really made me question if Musk was a fraud. Finally the 420 funding secured tweet resolved the issue. Ever since I have hated the cult-leading fraudulent liar cuz, you know, I'm a decent person who has some morals.

OKidoki.

Now, do you have the same "cult-leading fraudulent liar" feelings about other successful guys like, I don't know, Jeff Bezos for example ?

If not, why not ?

Bezos is not a pathological liar. He doesn't randomly publicly accuse people of being a pedophile cuz they hurt his feelings. He doesn't bail out his failing companies on false guidance. He doesn't fake buyouts of his company. He doesn't present products to the public that are totally fake. I could go on.

I'm not really a fan of Bezos cuz I own a small retail store, and you know...Amazon. But the problem lies with the monetary system and larger rules of society, not with the way Bezos has exploited them to create a super-company. Also, Bezos doesn't pretend to be an expert in all sorts of stuff that he is clueless about.

big time oops

GoSouthYoungins

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #3596 on: September 17, 2019, 04:19:13 PM »
[Musk] Bought a failing company which falls within the scope of the incorporated goal of the company he is CEO of...When Musk bought Solar city, his board OK'd it and it was not a company breaking move.  For which he got staff, manufacturing facilities, patents and an order book.

Exactly! He bought a failing company to bail himself out by LYING and saying that Solar City was doing awesome and was going to keep growing rapidly. He then justified the whole thing by presenting a product which was totally fake. Super fraud.

[Musk] Tweeted the details of private internal company business which moved the market...For the 420 thing, I have no doubt of two things, firstly that Musk was annoyed with the shorts and secondly that he was in quite serious talks to take the company private.

If you are unsure of this, you only need to look at the SEC and justice dept restrictions on Musk to see what behaviour they targeted.

You are totally making this shit up. You are quite sure he was in serious talks despite ZERO evidence supporting your claim. What company? Why wouldn't they have bought Tesla for half the  420 price when the stock dropped less than a year later? Why wouldn't Musk ever provide any details?

Also, even if what you said is true, Musk still made up the 420 price as a clever drug reference. Childish and pathetic! And it is not acceptable to randomly tweet out (extremely) material information while the stock is trading.

For the late night twitter rant when frustrated at being laughed at for trying to help? When I was younger the biggest slur to a normal person was to call them homosexual.  Today that is completely gone, but calling people a paedophile has taken that place. Musk was guilty of nothing more than losing it in a flame war.  It was the press exposure which blew it out of all proportion.

He tweeted it out publicly. It wasn't a comment in passing that the press got wind of and blew out of proportion. He also doubled down of it after it became a big deal.

Also, homos like people of the same sex, but it typically a consensual thing. Whereas pedos like pre-pubescent children, which is inherently non-consensual. Conflating the two is ridiculous and actually kind of disgusting. It is also extremely offensive to homos.

I, of course, don't have a clue and should shut up.  So I'm going to do that now.

That is very big of you. It is rare that people can be honest enough with themselves to admit when they are totally clueless. Good on you.
big time oops

Sigmetnow

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #3597 on: September 17, 2019, 05:21:31 PM »
Tesla Model S beats Porsche Taycan’s Nurburgring lap by ~20 secs: German auto mag
https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-model-s-nurburgring-lap-time-vs-porsche-taycan/

—-
Tesla Gigafactory 3 passes major inspection amid V10’s introduction in China
Quote
Recent reports from local Chinese media have revealed that Tesla’s Gigafactory 3 complex has achieved yet another milestone. After a series of inspections on Gigafactory 3’s Phase 1 construction zone, officials have granted a ”comprehensive acceptance” of the site, paving the way for the start of Model 3 production operations in the near future.
https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-gigafactory-3-major-inspection-v10-eap-china/

——
Tesla in talks with Brazil-based startup to access lithium supply for EV batteries
https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-batteries-brazil-lithium-producer-sigma-deal/

—-
Quote
テスラ (@teslamotorsjp) 9/13/19, 5:13 AM
Tesla Model 3 delivery started in Japan
テスラ モデル3 納車開始‼️
https://twitter.com/teslamotorsjp/status/1172438245088485378

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Quote
ValueAnalyst (@ValueAnalyst1) 9/16/19, 8:33 AM
I’m not aware of a non-Tesla EV that is not a compliance vehicle, the telltale sign of which is “limited availability in select states.”
https://twitter.com/valueanalyst1/status/1173575729294061571
 
——-
— Recent Apple event revealed new iPhones with 3 cameras…
Quote
Louie Tran (@thegeeksoffice) 9/12/19, 10:32 PM
Thought about which color iPhone 11 I was going to get but I ordered a white @Tesla Model 3 with black interior instead. It has more cameras than the iPhone 11 Pro ;D
https://twitter.com/thegeeksoffice/status/1172337101850890242
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

KiwiGriff

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #3598 on: September 17, 2019, 07:15:24 PM »
Beats Taycan .
Epic.
The interwebs are going off over Porsche vrs Tesla.
  :D
GSY?
Do not feed the troll.
Encouraging someones mental decay is not neighborly.

Sigmetnow

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #3599 on: September 17, 2019, 08:49:59 PM »
Beats Taycan .
Epic.
The interwebs are going off over Porsche vrs Tesla.
  :D
...

And it gets better:
Quote
Elon Musk (@elonmusk) 9/17/19, 12:09 PM
@Teslarati It’s a start. We expect these track times to be beaten by the actual production 7 seat Model S Plaid variant that goes into production around Oct/Nov next year.
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1173992505672519680

< Will the 7 seat layout be a new layout?
Elon Musk (@elonmusk) 9/17/19, 12:12 PM
 No, original 5 forward facing seats plus 2 rear-facing smaller seats. The new rear seats will accommodate larger passengers than before. [They were child seats.]
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1173993213234798592

< Will the other Models also be available on plaid variants soon?
EM: New Roadster and X will come later
< I guess new Roadster will easily beat the all time record of 6:44.97s?
EM: Absolutely


< Do you think the model 3 performance could beat the Taycan
EM: No, but very close
< Very close at fraction of a cost? I’ll take Model 3 please.
EM:  Actually, Model 3 would beat the Taycan on Nürburgring over multiple laps, as it has more range

Edit: Twitter “poll” ;) of sorts, below:
« Last Edit: September 17, 2019, 09:11:06 PM by Sigmetnow »
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.