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GoSouthYoungins

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #4650 on: December 09, 2019, 05:51:53 PM »
In 15 days, Tesla will begin installing 1,000 solar roofs per week.

 ;)
big time oops

KiwiGriff

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #4651 on: December 09, 2019, 07:11:22 PM »
Tesla's Shanghai assembly plant to be completed in May - The factory to have its own production lines by the end of the year.


Negative one billion percent chance.

How can anyone possibly believe a muddy field is going to be a factory in 2 months? Just absurd.
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blumenkraft

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #4652 on: December 09, 2019, 07:43:36 PM »
LOL
"Is a thin line 'tween heaven and here" - Bubbles

KiwiGriff

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #4653 on: December 09, 2019, 08:03:39 PM »
GSY also predicted Tesla would be bankwupt within a few months of hitting $200 a share.
It hit that milestone in may..... it is now at $346.
Don't ask GSY how much he has shorted Tesla it may result in a flurry of capitalized invective  aimed at us "morons".
“If you are part of a society that votes, then do so. There may be no candidates and no measures you want to vote for ... but there are certain to be ones you want to vote against. In case of doubt, vote against. By this rule you will rarely go wrong.”

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gerontocrat

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #4654 on: December 09, 2019, 08:30:16 PM »
Beware share price in December.

Everybody on Wall Street wants their Xmas bonus. Bad news is spun into good news.
Shorties usually go away and hope for the January hangover.

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gerontocrat

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #4655 on: December 09, 2019, 08:40:01 PM »
In 15 days, Tesla will begin installing 1,000 solar roofs per week.
25 Oct 2019
“We’re doing installations as fast as we possibly can, starting in the next few weeks,” Musk said about availability, adding that the goal is to “get to 1,000 roofs per week” sometime in “the next several months.”
https://techcrunch.com/2019/10/25/teslas-new-solar-roof-costs-less-than-a-new-roof-plus-solar-panels-aims-for-install-rate-of-1k-per-week/

Another fact from GSY that is not a fact. Tiresome, except it was worth checking.

If they are not getting close by end March 2020 then it will be time to ask awkward questions.
"Para a Causa do Povo a Luta Continua!"
"And that's all I'm going to say about that". Forrest Gump
"Damn, I wanted to see what happened next" (Epitaph)

blumenkraft

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #4656 on: December 09, 2019, 08:54:13 PM »
Another fact from GSY that is not a fact. Tiresome, except it was worth checking.

That's the problem with him. The bullshit is just so much in quantity no one is willing to debunk everything anymore. Non-debunked shit stands, and we see people in this stream taking those pieces seriously.

Literally insane this is. Sad i am.
"Is a thin line 'tween heaven and here" - Bubbles

nanning

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #4657 on: December 09, 2019, 09:05:40 PM »
In 15 days, Tesla will begin installing 1,000 solar roofs per week.
25 Oct 2019
“We’re doing installations as fast as we possibly can, starting in the next few weeks,” Musk said about availability, adding that the goal is to “get to 1,000 roofs per week” sometime in “the next several months.”
https://techcrunch.com/2019/10/25/teslas-new-solar-roof-costs-less-than-a-new-roof-plus-solar-panels-aims-for-install-rate-of-1k-per-week/

Another fact from GSY that is not a fact. Tiresome, except it was worth checking.

If they are not getting close by end March 2020 then it will be time to ask awkward questions.

Perhaps GSY added 2 months to the date of gerontocrat's linked article (25 oct) and got 25 dec which is in 15 days?  ;D
"It is preoccupation with possessions, more than anything else, that prevents us from living freely and nobly" - Bertrand Russell
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Why do you keep accumulating stuff?

gerontocrat

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #4658 on: December 09, 2019, 09:23:54 PM »
In 15 days, Tesla will begin installing 1,000 solar roofs per week.
25 Oct 2019
“We’re doing installations as fast as we possibly can, starting in the next few weeks,” Musk said about availability, adding that the goal is to “get to 1,000 roofs per week” sometime in “the next several months.”
https://techcrunch.com/2019/10/25/teslas-new-solar-roof-costs-less-than-a-new-roof-plus-solar-panels-aims-for-install-rate-of-1k-per-week/

Another fact from GSY that is not a fact. Tiresome, except it was worth checking.

If they are not getting close by end March 2020 then it will be time to ask awkward questions.

Perhaps GSY added 2 months to the date of gerontocrat's linked article (25 oct) and got 25 dec which is in 15 days?  ;D
Perhaps he didn't.
"Para a Causa do Povo a Luta Continua!"
"And that's all I'm going to say about that". Forrest Gump
"Damn, I wanted to see what happened next" (Epitaph)

TerryM

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #4659 on: December 09, 2019, 10:29:49 PM »
It was that damn "Pedo Guy" trial that slowed the whole process down.


How could The Elon have known that he'd need to take a week out of his very valuable time, and a $Million out of his "illiquid funds", to defend the right of all Celebrity Billionaire$ to defame Heros who have the temerity to publicly embarrass them?


"Several Months", needs to be extended to 2 months + 1 week, in the interest of fairness. ::)


Terry


NeilT

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #4660 on: December 09, 2019, 10:38:08 PM »
I'd say that Musk is setting an improbably high standard and just missing.  GSY is assuming that improbable equates to impossible and so winds up in a blind alley most of the time.

When you exhibit a fake product that is pretending to be capable of doing the improbable, and then start taking down payments on the fake product, IT IS FRAUD. How is this lost on you? Or do you think it is acceptable behavior to sell something which is improbable to be made.

The point is that Tesla delivers the improbable, just later than planned.

I know that is totally lost on you.  You had the Model3 in volume as Fake, Model 3 with a profit as Fake, you have the Model Y as a fake but have started targeting Solar roof because you think they won't ramp up That in time so you can avoid the a Model Y as it is clear that it is coming in early.

You had Gigafactory3 as Fake and that it would never manufacture anything other than a few Fake cars.  Giga3 has now produced at least 1,000 cars and is ramping up to 1,000 per week or more.

As.for FSD, Semi, Cybertruck, the quad, why should we even listen to your assertions of Fake as every other Fake prediction falls simply with the passage of time.

Occams razor.  Either there is the most complicated scam of all time going on, or Tesla is a going concern that makes money which is used to grow the business to make even more money.

There are rules about scams.

1. You do not invest your entire net worth in them
2. You make sure you can publicly distance yourself from them
3. You do not go all out producing millions of product which suck all the fake profit from your funds
4. You make sure the money vanishes
5. You set up a fall guy

Occams razor.  Your claims of Fake fail the litmus test.
Being right too soon is socially unacceptable.

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NeilT

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #4661 on: December 09, 2019, 10:50:02 PM »
If they are not getting close by end March 2020 then it will be time to ask awkward questions.

The problem with Tesla is that they are a young and immature company that has to make every mistake in the book before getting it right.

For instance you have a brand new roof for homes. Do you:

A. Work hell for leather setting up teams and marketing like mad so people who already have a roof can indebt themselves to put a new roof on with really great solar

B. Produce a comprehensive suite of software that can be plugged into architects plans for new builds so that people can click on an option to have a solar roof with powerwall and add it to the mortgage.  At the same time you get control of the designs, fixed ordering and architects who streamline their designs to improve your throughput.

I mean, the UK government has a target of 300,000 new homes "per year".

Give it time, the penny will drop.

In the meantime expect 1,000 roofs to take 10-12 of those Several months.
Being right too soon is socially unacceptable.

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TerryM

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #4662 on: December 09, 2019, 10:55:54 PM »
^^
Who made up those rules?


Dig into the selling of London Bridge to see how that was done.
Didn't follow any of your rules & was an amazingly effective scam.


A venial buyer and an unscrupulous seller are all that are required.


Terry
You Can't Cheat an Honest Man
W. C. Fields - American Philosopher of some repute.




NeilT

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #4663 on: December 09, 2019, 10:59:28 PM »
Totally different analogy.
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TerryM

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #4664 on: December 09, 2019, 11:54:48 PM »
A scam is a scam.
Some still operate by moving the ante and changing the game, rather than delivering a winning hand.


You can't lose following this Blackjack System, but it takes a while to deal all the cards so buy into this Texas Hold'em game - EZ Winnings, but while they're settling in, bet the Wheel, a no brainer.


You say you aren't cleaning up yet at the Blackjack table? Look at how well things are going for the Craps shooters - let me tell you a thing or two about those dice. We've the best odds on College Football you've ever seen. Texas Hold'em always been hard, and it's a shame about your Blackjack, but we've a new improved Slot Machine strategy that will knock your socks off.


Not enough time yet for the winning Poker game to have paid off, I said an hour, but it looks like it may take 2 hours, my bad. - Don't miss that Keno Runner, she's been paying off like clockwork & before you know it our Blackjack parlay will pay off big!


It's not gambling, it's gaming - and you are the game that's being hunted.


Don't bet on the Y until S X & 3 are profitable. Don't invest in CyberTrucks until Roadster 2 & the much hyped Semi have shown a profit.
If they can't make money at home, why do you think they'll do better in China - or Germany.


It's nothing new, it's a rolling scam and they all end the same way. All of the principals but one have left the tables, with bundles of cash - who do you think is going to take the fall?
Terry

Rob Dekker

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #4665 on: December 10, 2019, 06:19:33 AM »
A scam is a scam.

What exactly is a scam, Terry ?

Quote
Some still operate by moving the ante and changing the game, rather than delivering a winning hand.


You can't lose following this Blackjack System, but it takes a while to deal all the cards so buy into this Texas Hold'em game - EZ Winnings, but while they're settling in, bet the Wheel, a no brainer.


You say you aren't cleaning up yet at the Blackjack table? Look at how well things are going for the Craps shooters - let me tell you a thing or two about those dice. We've the best odds on College Football you've ever seen. Texas Hold'em always been hard, and it's a shame about your Blackjack, but we've a new improved Slot Machine strategy that will knock your socks off.


Not enough time yet for the winning Poker game to have paid off, I said an hour, but it looks like it may take 2 hours, my bad. - Don't miss that Keno Runner, she's been paying off like clockwork & before you know it our Blackjack parlay will pay off big!


It's not gambling, it's gaming - and you are the game that's being hunted.

I'm not really sure what you are smoking, but what does any of this have to do with this thread ?

Quote
Don't bet on the Y until S X & 3 are profitable. Don't invest in CyberTrucks until Roadster 2 & the much hyped Semi have shown a profit.
If they can't make money at home, why do you think they'll do better in China - or Germany.

Thanks for the advice, but Tesla is still growing fast, so all your points are moot.

Quote
It's nothing new, it's a rolling scam and they all end the same way. All of the principals but one have left the tables, with bundles of cash - who do you think is going to take the fall?
Terry

Short sellers ?
This is our planet. This is our time.
Let's not waste either.

NeilT

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #4666 on: December 10, 2019, 03:00:10 PM »
 I think you don't understand how you start a major manufacturing company which has extreme competition that drives other companies to the wall.

You might want to ask why the bulk of Tesla funding is now in convertible bonds. Bonds which Tesla pays off with monotonous regularity. If they were scamming, they would be looking to increase the stock which has no end date and no commitment to pay it back.

This is clearly not a case of DMC.  Every year the base value of Tesla increases, the volume of vehicles sold increases, the profit per unit sold increases.  Even more critically the shift from high value premium cars to mass market cars has resulted in more profit per unit sold.

When taken on a year on year basis, there is no evidence that Tesla is a scam. If anything, the opposite.

The creation of the Tesla HW3 was a watershed moment.  It highlighted the ability and delivery of Tesla, for all who can understand, to see.

The only thing left for people who suspect Tesla is a scam is to point to early announcement of long gestation products and use this as a basis for failure and scam.

The only thing to do with that is to wait and watch Tesla thrive.

At the last earnings call Tesla added to the funds raised, it did not call on them.  Yet Tesla is in rapid expansion on both products and manufacturing facilities.

Which means that Tesla growth into an international vehicle manufacturing firm is virtually self funding.

The physical evidence is for stability and growth. The "evidence" for scam is totally anecdotal.
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GoSouthYoungins

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #4667 on: December 10, 2019, 04:59:41 PM »
Tesla's Shanghai assembly plant to be completed in May - The factory to have its own production lines by the end of the year.


Negative one billion percent chance.

How can anyone possibly believe a muddy field is going to be a factory in 2 months? Just absurd.

It wasn't a factory in may. It still isn't producing anything. Is spiking the ball at the five yard line fun?
big time oops

GoSouthYoungins

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #4668 on: December 10, 2019, 05:07:27 PM »
In 15 days, Tesla will begin installing 1,000 solar roofs per week.
25 Oct 2019
“We’re doing installations as fast as we possibly can, starting in the next few weeks,” Musk said about availability, adding that the goal is to “get to 1,000 roofs per week” sometime in “the next several months.”
https://techcrunch.com/2019/10/25/teslas-new-solar-roof-costs-less-than-a-new-roof-plus-solar-panels-aims-for-install-rate-of-1k-per-week/

Another fact from GSY that is not a fact. Tiresome, except it was worth checking.

If they are not getting close by end March 2020 then it will be time to ask awkward questions.

Swing and a miss.

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1156005185656782848

"Spooling up production line rapidly. Hoping to manufacture ~1000 solar roofs/week by end of this year."

https://electrek.co/2019/07/30/tesla-solar-roof-tile-production-1000-roofs-per-week/

"Tesla Solar Roof Tiles are one of those products that have been delayed for a while at Tesla, but CEO Elon Musk now says that the company is ramping up production to “1,000 roofs per week” by the end of the year."


THE PRODUCT WAS "UNVEILED" OVER 3 YEARS AGO. BUT IT ISN'T TIME TO START ASKING QUESTION UNTIL 3 MONTHS FROM NOW. HOW ABSURD!

Btw, genocrad, what "fact that was not a fact" are you even referring to? (Total nonsense straw man BS as always!)


Cars produced at Giga3 = Zero. Teslemmings celebrate.

Solar roofs installed = Zero. Teslemmings say we need to wait just 10% longer before we get concerned that the fake product is fake.
big time oops

GoSouthYoungins

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #4669 on: December 10, 2019, 05:08:35 PM »
In 15 days, Tesla will begin installing 1,000 solar roofs per week.
25 Oct 2019
“We’re doing installations as fast as we possibly can, starting in the next few weeks,” Musk said about availability, adding that the goal is to “get to 1,000 roofs per week” sometime in “the next several months.”
https://techcrunch.com/2019/10/25/teslas-new-solar-roof-costs-less-than-a-new-roof-plus-solar-panels-aims-for-install-rate-of-1k-per-week/

Another fact from GSY that is not a fact. Tiresome, except it was worth checking.

If they are not getting close by end March 2020 then it will be time to ask awkward questions.

Perhaps GSY added 2 months to the date of gerontocrat's linked article (25 oct) and got 25 dec which is in 15 days?  ;D
Perhaps he didn't.

Perhaps it was 15 days until the last week of the year. Wow. You are all very special.
big time oops

nanning

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #4670 on: December 10, 2019, 05:20:31 PM »
I think I supported you, that's special. What is special about the others? ;)
"It is preoccupation with possessions, more than anything else, that prevents us from living freely and nobly" - Bertrand Russell
"It is preoccupation with what other people from your groups think of you, that prevents you from living freely and nobly" - Nanning
Why do you keep accumulating stuff?

GoSouthYoungins

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #4671 on: December 10, 2019, 05:21:32 PM »
Every year the profit per unit sold increases.

You say the most untrue things.


In 2018 Tesla lost about $4,000 per car sold.

In 2019 Tesla has lost about $4,000 per car sold.

profit; noun:
a financial gain, especially the difference between the amount earned and the amount spent in buying, operating, or producing something.

A sane person would claim that the loss per car is decreasing, (which is still untrue). But a Teslemming will go all the way and say that the profits are increasing. Delusion!!!
big time oops

GoSouthYoungins

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #4672 on: December 10, 2019, 05:22:24 PM »
I think I supported you, that's special. What is special about the others? ;)

They are coming up with random calculations about why I would be referring to 15 days.
big time oops

GoSouthYoungins

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #4673 on: December 10, 2019, 05:24:47 PM »
Tesla sells dollars for about 93 cents. They used to sell dollars for like 75 cents.

Trying to sell dollars for less than a dollar is easy. Trying to sell dollars for more than a dollar is hard.

Tesla will never be able to transition to a company that sells dollars for more than a dollar.

No fElon Musk company has ever made the transition to profitability.
big time oops

KiwiGriff

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #4674 on: December 10, 2019, 06:30:47 PM »
  "how little ground there can be to hope that men may be reasoned out of their errours*, when in fact they were never reasoned into them, but adopted them from prejudice, passion, or policy."
Lyman Beecher

“If you are part of a society that votes, then do so. There may be no candidates and no measures you want to vote for ... but there are certain to be ones you want to vote against. In case of doubt, vote against. By this rule you will rarely go wrong.”

― Robert A. Heinlein, Time Enough for Love

NeilT

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #4675 on: December 10, 2019, 07:03:38 PM »
GSY,

IFf Tesla was given a factory and assembled Tesla cars from 100% parts made by someone else, then sold the whole thing at a loss, never moving from that factory and ne er evolving, you would be correct.

But Tesla does not do that.  Tesla is constantly leading a cutting edge 8ndustry and producing a whole range of products.  At the same time it is expanding Rapidly.

Simply the facilities Tesla owns and uses are worth billions, the power they generate, the vehicle order book, more and more and more.

Just  ecause you are blind to reality does not make your statements correct.

Read,

3njoy. Or not..

https://cleantechnica.com/2019/12/10/tesla-tsla-fud-elon-time/amp/
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #4676 on: December 10, 2019, 07:45:27 PM »
Giga Shanghai

Quote
The Tesladorian (@Supermantibody) 12/10/19, 3:35 AM
Just heard from someone who was at the tesla flagship store in shanghai. According to the guy he talked to, they are already delivering the MIC model 3 and all the cars they will produce until march have already been sold :) $tsla
https://twitter.com/supermantibody/status/1204318636749606912

Quote
JPR007 (@jpr007) 12/10/19, 12:21 PM
DEUTSCHE BANK RESEARCH NOTE - TESLA
GF3
1. production flow
2. production costs
3. modules and packs - cells from outside
4. modules and packs 10 GWh capacity = 185,000 M3 SR at 54 kWh each
5. CATL cell supply ? ? ?
6. M3 MIC price includes VAT ?
7. China BEV subsidy policy
https://twitter.com/jpr007/status/1204450958039646208
Image below.


========
Tesla-Fabrik  :)

Quote
JPR007 (@jpr007) 12/10/19, 12:21 PM
GF4 BRANDENBURG
1. construction start January 2020
2. vehicle production in 2021, max 2 years
3. Model Y first, Model 3 to follow
4. investment cost Shanghai +alpha
https://twitter.com/jpr007/status/1204450970026958848
Image below.

Tesla rumoured to produce battery cells in Brandenburg
Quote
It seems that Tesla might be aiming to produce its own battery cells at its European plant in Brandenburg. Among other indications, this impression was given by job advertisements for the planned Gigafactory 4.
https://www.electrive.com/2019/12/09/tesla-rumoured-to-produce-battery-cells-in-brandenburg/

Quote
#Gf4 #Gigafactory4 (@Gf4Tesla) 12/5/19, 2:39 PM
The purchase contract for the Tesla site is almost done. The Finance Committee could approve the sale later this year.
The 17th or 18th of December have been considered as possible dates for the special session.

Merry Christmas Brandenburg

Tesla-Fabrik in Brandenburg: Kaufvertrag für das Gelände in Grünheide steht fast
https://www.tagesspiegel.de/berlin/tesla-fabrik-in-brandenburg-kaufvertrag-fuer-das-gelaende-in-gruenheide-steht-fast/25303354.html
https://twitter.com/gf4tesla/status/1202673880151801857
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

Sigmetnow

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #4677 on: December 10, 2019, 08:22:28 PM »
BASF is building a cathode factory in Brandenburg, and €3.2 billion in state aid for battery tech in Europe has been approved.

Germany's BASF €500 Million Cathode Factory To Boost European Electric Battery Production
Quote
German-based chemical company BASF has reportedly planned to build a cathode factory to the tune of €500 million in the state of Brandenburg, Germany, that will cater to materials for the battery production of electric cars. The existing BASF plant in Schwarzheide, Brandenburg, accommodates 1,973 workers, and the new cathode factory is expected to employ close to 8,000 people once set up.

That said, there has not been a formal announcement from BASF in this regard, but the news was indirectly confirmed by Dietmar Woidke, the prime minister of Brandenburg. This is a huge boost to the electric vehicle plans of Germany, where automakers have relied on conventional vehicle production for the better part of a century.

The BASF plans for the cathode factory come in the wake of Tesla Inc's (NASDAQ: TSLA) Elon Musk announcing a Gigafactory at Brandenburg in November. Tesla's first production centre in Europe also would be a huge benefit for Germany, as it suffers from a dip in foreign trade brought about by a stumbling auto industry that is shedding jobs in the thousands.

Meanwhile, the European Commission (EC) approved €3.2 billion in state aid on Dec. 9 that will be injected into the research and development of battery technology, with projects selected across Belgium, Finland, France, Germany, Italy, Poland and Sweden. The EC expects this funding to vitalize the electric vehicle segment and bring in an added €5 billion in investment from private entities. ...
https://www.benzinga.com/node/14962719

=====

“Was it too easy, Tesla?”

Tesla gets kudos from VW for car of the year award in ad, challenges them with ID.3
https://electrek.co/2019/12/09/tesla-vw-kudo-ad-car-of-the-year-award-challenges-id3/
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NeilT

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #4678 on: December 10, 2019, 08:24:08 PM »
When assessing Musk owned or controlled companies, the article pasted has a lot of relevance.

Simply put, the company starts up, burns money until it gets it right, beats the competition with technology, effort and skill then takes a lead.

Then the following happens.

Quote
This is all a very roundabout way of illustrating the fact that once SpaceX becomes the world’s largest satellite operator, nothing short of repeated launch failures or the company’s outright collapse will prevent it from retaining that crown for the indefinite future

Followed by

Quote
Even if SpaceX falters and manages a monthly Starlink launch cadence over the next 13 months, the constellation could surpass OneWeb’s Phase 1 plans as early as Q3 2020 – up to as early as June 2020 if SpaceX manages a biweekly cadence. By the time OneWeb’s constellation is complete, SpaceX could potentially have more than 2000 operational satellites in orbit – perhaps ~600 metric tons of spacecraft compared to OneWeb’s ~100 metric tons.


https://www.teslarati.com/spacex-starlink-satellite-launch-second-announcement/amp/

Anyone want to bet on Spacex failing a dozen launches of Falcon5 in 2020?

Tesla is slowly moving into the same space. Technology, skill effort, lead and growth.

Granted the automotive market is harder to crack than space, but all the components are there.

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Sigmetnow

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #4679 on: December 10, 2019, 08:56:03 PM »
CNBC hosts try hard in this segment to put a negative spin on Tesla, but are forced to ignore the bigger picture to do it.  (At least they are moving away from their “Tesla is going bankrupt!” line.)  Wood’s bear case is a 6% market share for Tesla, but she can also see the company maintaining its 17% share of the EV market even as that market grows over the next few years.
H/t: https://twitter.com/ollin02909246/status/1204045163389235201

Tesla bull Cathie Wood gives her take on the Cybertruck
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #4680 on: December 10, 2019, 09:26:37 PM »
Tesla's Virtual Power Plant rescues grid after coal peaker fails, and it's only 2% finished
Quote
Tesla’s Virtual Power Plant project in South Australia is only around ~2% complete, but it is already proving to be a difference-maker, rescuing Queensland’s grid during an unexpected power outage. The response time and efficiency of the Virtual Power Plant mirror that of Tesla’s other large-scale energy project in the region, the highly-acclaimed Hornsdale Power Reserve.

Back in October, Queensland’s Kogan Creek coal power station, one of the largest in the region, tripped and caused the power system to drop well below the normal level of system frequency. Tesla’s Virtual Power Plant promptly stepped in, detecting the frequency drop and injecting power into the grid from Powerwall batteries loaded with energy from solar panels installed in SA Housing Trust properties across the state.

In a statement about the VPP’s feat, South Australia Energy Minister Dan van Holst Pellekaan highlighted the fact that Tesla’s Virtual Power Plant is still in its early days. Despite this, it was able to respond quickly. The feat was no joke, considering that the Kogan Creek station is a fairly large coal power plant. “Although the Virtual Power Plant is in its early days, it is already demonstrating how it can provide the network support traditionally performed by large conventional generators,” he said.


The Energy Minister’s statement is notable, considering that there are only about 900 homes forming the Virtual Power Plant as of date. Tesla’s target for the full VPP is a whopping 50,000 solar-powered, Powerwall-equipped homes. If less than 2% of the planned Virtual Power Plant can already rescue Queensland’s grid when a large coal plant fails, one can only imagine how much stability a fully-completed VPP could accomplish.
...
Once complete, Tesla’s Virtual Power Plant in South Australia will deliver 250MW of solar energy and store 650 MWh of backup energy for the region. That’s notably larger than the Hornsdale Power Reserve, which is already changing South Australia’s energy landscape with its 100MW/129MWh capacity. In a way, Tesla’s Virtual Power Plant may prove to be a dark horse for the company’s Energy Business, which is unfortunately underestimated most of the time. Couple this with the 50% expansion of the Hornsdale Power Reserve, and Tesla Energy might very well be poised to surprise in the coming quarters.
https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-virtual-power-plant-rescues-grid-2-percent-complete/
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NeilT

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #4681 on: December 10, 2019, 09:49:06 PM »


Tesla bull Cathie Wood gives her take on the Cybertruck

And a few other things.  But even with solar aside and ignoring that, keeping to the car business, I find it interesting that an analyst can accept that Tesla will boost up to 13m vehicles per year (which, by the way, would take some 2 dozen factories at current production rates per factory), but ignores the fact that Tesla insurance would have a pool of millions of vehicles to sell insurance to.

Perhaps when it figures more prominently in the quarterly stats people will remember.
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #4682 on: December 11, 2019, 02:09:34 PM »
Quote
Maye Musk (@mayemusk) 12/10/19, 2:27 PM
@elonmusk #1995 And people said you knew nothing about cars ;D #FoundThisPhoto
https://twitter.com/mayemusk/status/1204482749358166017
[Photo below.]

Elon Musk (@elonmusk) 12/10/19, 4:34 PM

@mayemusk Couldn’t afford to pay for repairs, so I fixed almost everything on that car from parts in the junkyard. Ironically, that’s me replacing broken side window glass. The circle is complete lol.

< Is that the same BMW the wheels fell off of?
Elon Musk: That’s the one!

< @mayemusk Thanks for raising this dude. He sorta matters to all our futures

< @elonmusk is the longest serving CEO of any major automaker.

[Image below.]
Industry Shift: With Four Departures This Year, Who Is The Longest-Tenured Automotive CEO?
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/industry-shift-four-departures-longest-190424759.html
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NeilT

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #4683 on: December 11, 2019, 04:28:55 PM »
On a slightly different topic, I just remembered the convertible bond repayment for Nov 2019.  $566m.

Honestly, with over $5bn in available funds it is hardly an issue (changed days in just one year), but to see no mention of it at all tells more about the state of Tesla today, compared to just one year ago, than any analysis can do.

The reason I was thinking about it is that the Giga3 production and Q4 results are likely to push Tesla shares over the convertible threshold for quite some time.

The stock is over 355 atm and likely to keep drifting higher day by day.
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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #4684 on: December 11, 2019, 07:35:52 PM »

The reason I was thinking about it is that the Giga3 production and Q4 results are likely to push Tesla shares over the convertible threshold for quite some time.

The stock is over 355 atm and likely to keep drifting higher day by day.
Just the standard Xmas gift to Wall Street or will it attack the June 2017 high and move to a new plateau?
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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #4685 on: December 12, 2019, 12:42:04 AM »
When assessing Musk owned or controlled companies, the article pasted has a lot of relevance.

Simply put, the company starts up, burns money until it gets it right, beats the competition with technology, effort and skill then takes a lead.

Then the following happens....

....they never make money. They never become profitable. Never have and never will.
big time oops

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #4686 on: December 12, 2019, 01:35:19 AM »
While other countries and big publications laud the Model 3 as “Best Car,” Edmunds (which depends on $ from dealers and automakers to survive, and regularly provides false stats on Tesla cars) is finally, begrudgingly, forced to award the Model 3 minimally as the “best EV.”  I guess that’s something.

Quote
Edmunds (@edmunds) 12/11/19, 12:15 PM
The Edmunds 2020 #TopRated best EV of the year is the @Tesla Model 3.
The Model 3 is unlike any other vehicle on sale, electric or ICE. Its features, technology, price and driving dynamics make it an impossible force to ignore.
- Simply put, the Model 3 is more fun to drive than similarly priced compact luxury sedans, including the self-proclaimed ‘ultimate driving machine’, the BMW 3 Series.
- For around $40,000, no other EV even comes close to matching the all-round appeal of the Model 3.
- Our 2017 Model 3 initially had so many problems it was tough to recommend. But we're revisiting the latest build Model 3 and it's quite noticable how much better built these now are.
https://twitter.com/edmunds/status/1204811890079289346
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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #4687 on: December 12, 2019, 02:37:45 AM »
Tesla Model 3 becomes newest squad car for Connecticut police department
Quote
Police Chief Foti Koskinas noted that the department’s decision to add a Model was based on the vehicle’s performance, five-star crash safety ratings, and advanced collision avoidance technology. He also said he “believes in being green,” but it was not a primary factor in the decision to purchase the vehicle.

Despite Tesla’s higher price point than the department’s existing fleet of $37,000 Ford Explorers, Koskinas justified Model 3’s $52,290 cost due to its fuel and maintenance savings. The Police Department also plans to install a charging station at its headquarters. “The Police Department already has a gas pump on its property, and now will be adding a Level 2 electric vehicle charger which will easily recharge the vehicle in a few hours overnight so it has a full charge each morning. There are also EV chargers available to the public at other Westport locations such as the Library, Town Hall, and both train stations,” Koskinas said. ...
https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-model-3-westport-connecticut-police-car/
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #4688 on: December 12, 2019, 03:27:16 AM »
Jim Cramer: Why I Became a Tesla True Believer but Remain a Netflix Skeptic
Quote
[His daughter nervously set out on a 600-mile trip in a Model 3. Then she called him.]
She had two words for me: "buy one."

How about the balance sheet, though? The bears are always telling me about how bad the balance sheet is.
But then I checked in with one of the most skeptical CFOs in the world and you know what he said? The company could raise two billion dollars in a heartbeat.

Plus even the bears recognize that the company is about to have an earnings breakout, perhaps as soon as 2020.

Remaining worry? That solar panel acquisition. Well, guess what? My wife sent me an article today about how their solar roof tiles are now as cheap as the stupid kind and they have a guarantee. She wants them. We will get them. …
https://realmoney.thestreet.com/jim-cramer/jim-cramer-why-i-became-a-tesla-true-believer-but-remain-a-netflix-skeptic-15191894


——
 ;D ;D

Quote
Cybertruck Nuts® (@CybertruckN) 12/11/19, 2:25 PM
Anymore excuses @Ford ? If the P100D can do THIS! Imagine what the Cybertruck will do
https://twitter.com/cybertruckn/status/1204844658297319425
40 sec vid: “heavy 4x4” pickup, tug-of-war vs. a Model X P100D.  ;D
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GoSouthYoungins

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #4689 on: December 12, 2019, 03:47:40 AM »
Tesla just changed their battery and drive train warranty mileage limit from "unlimited" to "120,000 miles"...


...probably cuz the battery is even better than claimed!  ;)
big time oops

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #4690 on: December 12, 2019, 04:10:29 AM »
Tesla Gigafactory 4 will produce 500,000 Model Y and Model 3 cars per year
Quote
Now plans for the factory have been obtained by Germany’s Bild and Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung newspapers that show Tesla is planning to produce 500,000 cars per year at Gigafactory 4.

The documents also show that Tesla is planning to invest up to €4 billion in the plant.

It could create up to 10,000 jobs after the factory is fully ramped up, according to the documents.
Earlier this summer, Musk also said that he expects Gigafactory 4 construction will be “well under way” within the next 12 to 18 months and will have the European Gigafactory operational by the end of 2021.

The large amount of land that Tesla is acquiring for the factory is located in a forest. Deforestation is expected to start early next year, and Tesla plans to plant three times the number of trees that they will cut down at the site.
https://electrek.co/2019/12/11/tesla-gigafactory-4-produce-500000-model-y-model-3-cars-per-year/
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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #4691 on: December 12, 2019, 11:57:56 AM »
Tesla just changed their battery and drive train warranty mileage limit from "unlimited" to "120,000 miles"...


...probably cuz the battery is even better than claimed!  ;)

The Model 3 was 100k so that is an improvement...
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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #4692 on: December 12, 2019, 12:23:02 PM »
When the legacy industry starts building electric cars Tesla is doomed.
Tesla do not have any advantage. Tesla has no technology that legacy industry can not just simply buy of the shelf.

The Audi etron was going to have competitive  range .
the Porsche Taycan was going to have competitive range .
Anyone willing to bet what the ID3 will have?
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NeilT

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #4693 on: December 12, 2019, 12:43:06 PM »
....they never make money. They never become profitable. Never have and never will.

It is a waste of time arguing with you on this.  When people tell me they have an opinion and are entitled to it, my reply is always the same. "An uninformed opinion is nothing more than dogma".

I have run a business for 27 years, it has never made a profit.  According to you, that means it must be bust...

Educate yourself.  Read the article, review all your posts on what Tesla is doing, over the last year and attempt to understand

https://www.growthforce.com/blog/managing-cash-flow-in-a-rapidly-growing-business

Or you can just go on shouting at people and calling them morons.

Your call.
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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #4694 on: December 12, 2019, 03:30:39 PM »
....they never make money. They never become profitable. Never have and never will.

It is a waste of time arguing with you on this.

There is nothing to argue about. It is a fact. (Obviously, the "never will" is not a fact. But the "never have", "0 profitable years out of 50", etc, is a fact.

I have run a business for 27 years, it has never made a profit.  According to you, that means it must be bust...

Well, it is odd. At a small scale, you can pay yourself enough to make a business profit unnecessary. But in general, profit is the point of business. It is the point of capitalism. Take x, turn it into x plus more. That is the idea. Not take x, turn it into x minus some.

Or you can just go on shouting at people and calling them morons.

I use my fingers. I want a program that turns my shouting into text but I haven't found one that understands me.

If you think Tesla is making a larger profit per car made each year, you are a moron. There hasn't been a single profitable year. Third of a billion dollar loss is the best rolling average from the past 5 years. If you think that losses are profits, you are a moron. I'm not trying to shout. I'm just pointing out that if you think (0 - 3 = 2), you are a moron. I haven't actually been using the word moron, but you are correct that that is what I am getting at.



(just curious, why has your business never made a profit? 27 years is quite a while to be in "a growth phase". the 2nd year I ran a business we made a profit. seemed like the right idea. who knew I was doing it wrong. i should have asked you for advice  ;)
big time oops

Sigmetnow

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #4695 on: December 12, 2019, 04:07:47 PM »
...
The Audi etron was going to have competitive  range .
the Porsche Taycan was going to have competitive range .
Anyone willing to bet what the ID3 will have?

Indeed; one can pay much more and get much less than a Tesla provides.
Here’s a comparison for those who like circles, arrows, and math. ;)

From: https://twitter.com/vuryfurrybur/status/1204896402645667843
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #4696 on: December 12, 2019, 04:20:58 PM »
Quote
Or you can just go on shouting at people and calling them morons.

 "When the facts are on your side, pound the facts. When the law is on your side, pound the law. When neither is on your side, pound the table."
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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #4697 on: December 12, 2019, 04:51:09 PM »
Tesla just changed their battery and drive train warranty mileage limit from "unlimited" to "120,000 miles"...
...probably cuz the battery is even better than claimed!  ;)
A fact from GSY!! And not just the USA, where the Tesla owners' club has a lot of owners somewhat annoyed.

https://www.tesla.com/en_GB/support/vehicle-warranty
Quote
New Vehicle Limited Warranty
Your vehicle is covered by a New Vehicle Limited Warranty for 4 years or 50,000 miles, whichever comes first. The Battery and Drive Unit in your vehicle are covered for a period of:

Model S and Model X – 8 years (with the exception of the original 60 kWh battery manufactured before 2015, which is covered for a period of 8 years or 125,000 miles, whichever comes first).

Model 3 - 8 years or 100,000 miles, whichever comes first, with minimum 70% retention of Battery capacity over the warranty period.

Model 3 with Long-Range Battery - 8 years or 120,000 miles, whichever comes first, with minimum 70% retention of Battery capacity over the warranty period.

These warranties cover the repair or replacement necessary to correct defects in the materials or workmanship of any parts manufactured or supplied by Tesla, which occur under normal use.

On the other hand, here is a study of battery degradation of 500 Tesla vehicles...
looks like 7 years 150,000 miles = 90% battery capacity on average.

https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/cars/article-7764529/US-study-claims-Tesla-batteries-lose-just-1-performance-year.html
Quote
Study claims Teslas lose just 1% performance every year caused by repeat charges
- It says Tesla batteries show slow levels of deterioration for first 150,000 miles
- After 7 years, the average Tesla car battery loses 7% capacity, researcher found

To review the condition of batteries, researchers downloaded owner-submitted information for around 500 Tesla Model S cars.

This also included the purchase date, battery size, EPA (Environmental Protection Agency) range and, for the date of submission, the odometer reading. 

It had to use both full-range and partial-range estimates to take into account that some owners do not charge the vehicle's battery to 100 per cent capacity.

The study found that battery degradation is impact by the number of charges it endures and higher mileage models - which would have been plugged in more often - had reduced capacities.   

The research reveals that the average Tesla Model S battery provides more than 90 per cent of its original range up until around 150,000 miles.

However, beyond that mileage the range starts to noticeably drop off.


NimbleFin's report said: 'It's interesting to see that a car with unusually high mileage for the age (over 143,000 miles for a car less than 5 years old) has more significant battery deterioration than a typical car of the same age.

The vehicle with the highest mileage of all in the survey sample was a Model S 85P with 232,442 miles on the clock. Even after that duration of ownership, mileage and recharges, it was found to still be able to cover 220 miles on a single charge, which works out at 83 per cent of its original 265-mile range.

and here is the experience of a company driving their Tesla fleet really hard - some real battery problems that seem to have mostly disappeared as Tesla improved the software.
A fleet of Teslas drove 300,000 miles. Here’s what broke and what didn’t
https://www.digitaltrends.com/cars/tesla-electric-cars-surpass-300000-miles-in-shuttle-service/
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NeilT

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #4698 on: December 12, 2019, 05:18:09 PM »
Seven cars and six battery changes though?  Granted quality is way up so this should not recur in anything like the frequency.

However, that being said, my wife drove her 806 diesel to 300,000 miles before I insisted that she changed it due to developing mechanical issues.  So a Tesla at 300k miles with relatively few issues is not bad.  The loss of 60 miles is a bigger issue. But, again, at 300k miles..
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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #4699 on: December 12, 2019, 05:29:17 PM »
Tesla has had 3 General Counsels quit in the past year. Probably cuz everything fElon does is soooo legal that it is too easy of a job and is boring.
big time oops