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NeilT

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #5300 on: February 10, 2020, 09:37:57 PM »

In theory, I agree with you :) —  for hardware items.  If Tesla sells a Performance Model 3, with a spoiler, special wheels and brakes, but mistakenly prices it as a Standard Range Plus, I’d say you got a sweet deal and of course Tesla shouldn’t come buy and rip off the performance bits.

But service items are different.  They don’t exist unless there is a contract, a “true meeting of the minds,” in legal parlance.  Your insurance company may send you a copy of your policy, but it is not in effect unless you pay the premium.

I'm with Oren in fact, not theory.  If Tesla themselves sold the vehicle which they had taken back from an owner with a software set enabled, then it was incumbent on Tesla to remove said software set _before_ sale.

It is clear I was right about my analogy.  Tesla licenses their FSD software to the owner of the vehicle and it is a non transferrable "license to use".

They need to be 100% clear about this so that mistakes don't happen.

In this case they should take it on the chin and just put it back.  In future they should be better prepared.

Now that this is clear, it will make second hand Tesla's far less attractive.  After all who wants to buy an 8 year old Tesla in mint condition only to find out they have to shell out $8k more to get the license for the features the car was sold with?  I certainly have now been totally put off even looking at a second hand Tesla.  I was checking prices and seeing where they moved to.  I have now, officially, stopped.

This has always been a sore point in the IT world.  Car owners are going to dislike it WAY more.  After all, this means Tesla could sell FSD several times over the lifetime of the vehicle.  They may be a blend of a technology company and a vehicle manufacturer, but this is one thing they don't have to emulate from the technology world.
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swoozle

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #5301 on: February 10, 2020, 09:46:31 PM »

In theory, I agree with you :) —  for hardware items.  If Tesla sells a Performance Model 3, with a spoiler, special wheels and brakes, but mistakenly prices it as a Standard Range Plus, I’d say you got a sweet deal and of course Tesla shouldn’t come buy and rip off the performance bits.

But service items are different.  They don’t exist unless there is a contract, a “true meeting of the minds,” in legal parlance.  Your insurance company may send you a copy of your policy, but it is not in effect unless you pay the premium.

I'm with Oren in fact, not theory.  If Tesla themselves sold the vehicle which they had taken back from an owner with a software set enabled, then it was incumbent on Tesla to remove said software set _before_ sale.

It is clear I was right about my analogy.  Tesla licenses their FSD software to the owner of the vehicle and it is a non transferrable "license to use".

They need to be 100% clear about this so that mistakes don't happen.

In this case they should take it on the chin and just put it back.  In future they should be better prepared.

Now that this is clear, it will make second hand Tesla's far less attractive.  After all who wants to buy an 8 year old Tesla in mint condition only to find out they have to shell out $8k more to get the license for the features the car was sold with?  I certainly have now been totally put off even looking at a second hand Tesla.  I was checking prices and seeing where they moved to.  I have now, officially, stopped.

This has always been a sore point in the IT world.  Car owners are going to dislike it WAY more.  After all, this means Tesla could sell FSD several times over the lifetime of the vehicle.  They may be a blend of a technology company and a vehicle manufacturer, but this is one thing they don't have to emulate from the technology world.

NeilT, how exactly is it clear that it's a software license?

I just looked at my purchase paperwork and there is nothing that indicates it is feature akin to a software license. In my purchase agreement there is a description of the vehicle configuration. It includes the base model, the long range add-on, the wheel style, the paint color, etc., and "Full Self Driving Capability." Nothing in the text of the contract lays out any details about how FSD is treated any differently than any other physical aspect of the car.

Re that particular case, from the horse's mouth (https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/tesla-yanked-fsd-option-without-notice-class-action-lawsuit-any-lawyers-here-pending-resolution.183804/)

Teslas that pass back through Tesla's ownership often have those software options removed before resale. Just like they might have different wheels installed. At the very least Tesla definitely screwed up in not disabling FSD when they sold it on. But they don't disable FSD on cars sold from one third party to another (and have not gone back through Tesla ownership).

Somewhat of an aside, Tesla has acknowledge their mistake and is re-enabling FSD on that owner's car:
"A couple of hours ago I have got a call from Elon! Just joking! It was a customer experience rep, she apologized for my troubles, told me that Tesla has restored all missed options cited a miscommunication and it was not intentionally!"
(from the thread linked above)
« Last Edit: February 10, 2020, 10:30:36 PM by swoozle »

NeilT

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #5302 on: February 10, 2020, 10:58:39 PM »
Then you are correct.  Initially Tesla acted as if it was a non transferable license.

Now they are acting as if it is a feature of the car.  I expect that will continue.

Even then, pulling FSD from a car they are selling on, so they can sell FSD again to a new owner, is a fairly sharp practise and will not gain any friends.  At least when you change wheels you have to put something else in place.  Pulling purchased software features is not overly friendly.  Especially as they are making the owner pay again with a new car.

It means that I won't be looking to Tesla if I do eventually decide to reach out for a second hand one.  Not if they are doing that.  I'd need to know that they had decided it wasn't a good idea before looking.

Not that I'll be looking any time soon.
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oren

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #5303 on: February 10, 2020, 11:24:15 PM »
I am quite sure Tesla will realize this error in judgement and will correct it.
Didn't take long...  8)

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #5304 on: February 11, 2020, 12:47:31 AM »
Sometimes it's best to admit you got it wrong rather than look for ways to wriggle out.

Glad to see common sense has prevailed.

Sigmetnow

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #5305 on: February 11, 2020, 01:05:00 AM »
Tesla will do what it wants to do.  But once FSD becomes real, a car with FSD will be worth much more than $7k or $8k over the base car price.  Will Tesla give up that potential revenue?  We shall see.
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #5306 on: February 11, 2020, 01:11:27 AM »
Clearing the Tesla Forest for Giga Berlin
Quote
Giga Berlin / Gigafactory 4 (@gigafactory_4) 2/10/20, 11:04 AM
First heavy tree cutting machines arrived at the #GigaBerlin scene. None was used today.
As @tobilindh described machine action [occurred] in the west part (excavating). ...
https://twitter.com/gigafactory_4/status/1226899731361804290
Photos at the link.

Eric Dehais:
These machines are very fast!
Ponsse Scorpion King ᴴᴰ - YouTube
#https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j2SwTK6p72U

[The machinery in the linked photos looks a bit smaller than these.  But then, the GF4 trees are much smaller, too.]

Tobias Lindh:
Carsten Leßner from the forestry authority said that specialized companies would use 7 Harvesters and clear about 10 ha per day.
Before march they need to clear 91.56 ha. At the end of this year they'll clear another 63 ha for the logistics area.
... It's true that 154,56 ha need to be cleared for the factory to be operational. But they requested permission only for 91.56 ha for the first premature clearing.

—-
…experts carefully examined all the trees on the site before the planned deforestation. This was done so that the felling of trees does not harm the birds living there, animals or insects. As a result of the inspection, two trees with bat colonies and trees with ants were found. Specialists [resettled] the inhabitants of these trees.
Tesla submits a grant application for the Gigafactory 4 in Brandenburg
https://www.tesmanian.com/blogs/tesmanian-blog/tesla-submits-a-grant-application-for-the-gigafactory-4-in-brandenburg
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blumenkraft

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #5307 on: February 11, 2020, 08:18:43 AM »
Ponsse Scorpion King ᴴᴰ - YouTube

I could watch that all day! :D
“I’m an introvert. I’m just different that’s all. I’m so sorry. I don’t have a gun. I don’t do that stuff... All I was trying to do was to become better. I’ll do it... You all are phenomenal. You are beautiful. And I love you. Try to forgive me. I’m sorry.”

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Sigmetnow

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #5308 on: February 11, 2020, 09:17:37 PM »
The Real Driver Of Tesla’s $100 Billion Valuation Is The Dearth Of Innovation In The Auto Industry
Quote
The headlines about the valuation of Tesla seem to multiply along with the company’s share price. As the electric-car maker’s market value recently topped $100 billion, it’s clear that Elon Musk has driven Tesla into a new zone. But, Tesla’s peak is not necessarily because Wall Street believes Musk is doing everything right. It’s likely that Wall Street knows something that all smart marketers know. Tesla is the only auto manufacturer doing anything different. And, doing something different—relevantly different—is what separates successful brands from those on auto-pilot. It’s the ability to figure out what really matters to people and to deliver on it brilliantly.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/allenadamson/2020/02/11/the-real-driver-of-teslas-100-billion-valuation-is-the-dearth-of-innovation-in-the-auto-industry/

—-
Tech Companies Who Have Superpowers To Change Their Industry- And The World
Quote
And Tesla is now worth more than General Motors (NYSE: GM), Ford and Fiat Chrysler (NYSE: FCAU) combined, even though the Big Three together sell more cars and trucks in two weeks than Tesla does in a whole year. But all of these conventional automakers (and their customers) significantly contributed to polluting the planet, the price each living creature on Earth is now paying. And Tesla is not only bringing the promise of EVs, but further pushing the limits of what other automakers can do. This surely is a quality of a leader who breaks boundaries and pushes limits for the greater good. ...
https://m.benzinga.com/article/15289268

—-
Tesla Sentry Mode saves police $3,000 on new Model 3 electric cruiser
Quote
The department told the local EV club:
With Tesla’s cooperation, the police are using the sentry cameras that come with the Tesla, meaning that they will be spared the approximately $3,000 expense that is normally incurred to add this to a police cruiser. And the Tesla cameras are of superior quality than what they would otherwise get.

Westport is also reportedly in talks with Tesla to potentially use the onboard computer and screen to run their police programs, but nothing has been implemented yet. They are using tablets for now.
Even with the savings from the camera installations, the Model 3’s sticker price is still a little more expensive than the Ford Explorer it is replacing.
However. they expect $13,770 in fuel savings just in the first three years with the Model 3.

At this point, there are about a dozen police departments going electric with Tesla vehicles.
https://electrek.co/2020/02/11/tesla-sentry-mode-police-model-3-electric-cruiser/

—-
Quote
Wade (@wadeanderson) 2/10/20, 7:37 PM
The only negative thing I can see about the cybertruck is that I won't get as much exercise. Currently I park far away to avoid door dings; with the cybertruck it will be like "I dare you to try" and would park in tiny narrow spaces up close ;D
https://twitter.com/wadeanderson/status/1227028874313097216
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NeilT

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #5309 on: February 12, 2020, 12:16:50 AM »
It is going to be interesting to see when the first Police Cybertruck is bought...  Potential 500 miles range, loads of room, big, tough... etc.
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #5310 on: February 12, 2020, 02:32:17 AM »
Tesla China during the Time of Coronavirus:  informational webcasts, and home delivery.

Tesla China Massive MIC Model 3 Delivery Soon, Stores Reopen on Feb 17
Quote
Under the influence of the coronavirus epidemic on February 2, Tesla temporarily closed all offline stores in mainland China and began selling cars via the Internet. Tesla took the initiative to open online car sales during the Spring Festival. It attracted TikTok influencers for an information campaign in several cities. They talked about Tesla China products and services. All the livestreams took place at the Tesla Experience Center in China.

It also became known that Tesla plans to begin mass delivery of Made in China Model 3 in the near future, and this was the reason that store employees and influencers conducted online consultations for those who wanted to buy a car. During the livestreams, they provided people with accurate information about the MIC Model 3, talked about the functions of Autopilot and Smart Summon, and explained about the car's safety functions.

Another good news was that for delivery users, Tesla also launched a door-to-door delivery service. The store staff can send the purchased car directly to the place indicated by the buyer, which is very convenient for Tesla Chinese customers.
https://www.tesmanian.com/blogs/tesmanian-blog/tesla-stores-in-mainland-china-will-resume-operations-on-february-17
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gerontocrat

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #5311 on: February 12, 2020, 01:19:48 PM »
It is going to be interesting to see when the first Police Cybertruck is bought...  Potential 500 miles range, loads of room, big, tough... etc.
So tough that no dents when the miscreants head accidentally hits the vehicle while being apprehended.
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NeilT

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #5312 on: February 12, 2020, 03:58:39 PM »
Another bonus for the police...  :o
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #5313 on: February 12, 2020, 09:06:37 PM »
Giga Shanghai is already one of the Top 5 local EV producers.
Quote
JPR007 (@jpr007) 2/12/20, 8:14 AM
TESLA GF3 MODEL 3 PRODUCTION - 2020 JANUARY
GF3 produced 2,625 MIC Model 3s in January before the shutdown for Lunar New Year

This confirms the approximate rate of 1,000 per week on a single shift
https://twitter.com/jpr007/status/1227581756175339520

Tesla becomes one of China’s top local electric car producers in January
https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-made-in-china-model-3-giga-shanghai/
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #5314 on: February 13, 2020, 01:34:26 AM »
Quote
VedaPrime (@VedaPrime) 2/12/20, 7:15 AM
Glovis Cosmos currently in Belgium has 1000 Teslas onboard heading to Dubai for arrival March 15
https://twitter.com/vedaprime/status/1227566993340977153
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blumenkraft

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #5315 on: February 13, 2020, 09:12:59 AM »
People Are Jailbreaking Used Teslas to Get the Features They Expect

Link >> https://www.reddit.com/r/electricvehicles/comments/f2y6wb/people_are_jailbreaking_used_teslas_to_get_the/

The comments are pretty eye-opening.

Tesla, get your shit together!
“I’m an introvert. I’m just different that’s all. I’m so sorry. I don’t have a gun. I don’t do that stuff... All I was trying to do was to become better. I’ll do it... You all are phenomenal. You are beautiful. And I love you. Try to forgive me. I’m sorry.”

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NeilT

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #5316 on: February 13, 2020, 02:42:13 PM »
Unreasonable expectations.  This will be common with EV.

Tese are insurance write offs.  Tesla advanced features rely on the surrounding and supporting technology to be undamaged.

If you buy an insurance write off, the you should expect to get a vehicle which is not fully up to spec.
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oren

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #5317 on: February 13, 2020, 03:22:31 PM »
https://www.investing.com/news/stock-market-news/tesla-seeks-to-raise-2-billion-through-stock-offering-2083955

Tesla seeks to raise $2 billion through stock offering
Quote
(Reuters) - Tesla (NASDAQ:TSLA) Inc said on Thursday it plans to raise $2 billion by selling shares through a public offering.

Chief Executive Officer Elon Musk will buy up to $10 million in shares, while board member and Oracle (NYSE:ORCL) co-founder Larry Ellison will purchase $1 million worth Tesla shares.

The underwriters will get an option to buy up to $300 million in additional shares.

The electric-car maker said it plans to use the proceeds from the offering to strengthen its balance sheet and for general corporate purposes.

Normally this would cause the stock price to drop, currently pre-market is down only 3% at $745, if they manage to sell the shares at this price it will be a great coup for Tesla.

As the saying goes, you raise capital when you can, not when you need to.

Sigmetnow

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #5318 on: February 13, 2020, 03:51:39 PM »
Quote
Disruption Research (@DisruptResearch) 1/29/20, 4:33 PM
Tesla's 2019Q4 free cashflow ($1B) exceeded Wall Street's 2020 full-year free cashflow estimate ($974MM)
https://twitter.com/disruptresearch/status/1222633963446992897

—-
Tesla now disables Supercharging in salvaged vehicles
https://electrek.co/2020/02/12/tesla-disables-supercharging-salvaged-vehicles/
If Tesla can’t be sure there has been no damage to the pack, a protective stance seems appropriate.
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #5319 on: February 13, 2020, 04:14:46 PM »
Quote
Iain Herd (@iainherd) 2/12/20, 3:18 PM
Talking of location coincidences. Map these US lithium regions / deposits with current proposed GigaFactories. Five bucks that GigaTexas is within 250-330 miles of Magnolia, Arkansas
https://www.sciencebase.gov/catalog/item/imap/5d0baffce4b0e3d31162044c 
https://twitter.com/iainherd/status/1227688477577359361
Austin, Texas is about 336 miles from Magnolia, AR as the crow flies.


“We have the technology to secure the global supply of lithium for the future and extract it in a more environmentally sustainable method.”
This Breakthrough Lithium Extraction Technology Could Accelerate The Sustainable Energy Transition
Quote
EnergyX claim their patented LiTAS technology, underpinned by research published in leading academic journals Science and Nature, revolutionises this.  The new method accelerates the lithium extraction process from years to days, and rather than a 30-50% extraction rate, the technology captures closer to 90% of the lithium in the mix.

The underlying science is based on a new class of materials called metal-organic frameworks (MOF), which have an extremely large internal surface area and small pore sizes.  These act like an organic sieve to separate very accurately different metal ions of similar size.

“The fact that we are seeing MOF membranes target and separate these specific metal ions in an aqueous mixture is a pioneering and novel breakthrough,” explains TJ Dilenschneider, Chief Science Officer at EnergyX.  “The ‘salts’ in saltwater brines are all so similar, that having the ability to target and separate lithium from magnesium and calcium or sodium from lithium at high concentrations is phenomenal.”

The set-up costs and environmental impact of LiTAS are also expected to be minimal.  “Compared to the vast evaporation ponds, our technology can be deployed in fraction of that, in a factory setting,” added Egan.  With no major land purchase costs, significant areas of natural terrain can be left unspoilt and unlike traditional evaporation techniques used by lithium miners no external freshwater usage is required. ...
https://www-forbes-com.cdn.ampproject.org/c/s/www.forbes.com/sites/marekkubik/2019/09/24/this-breakthrough-lithium-extraction-technology-could-accelerate-the-sustainable-energy-transition/amp/
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oren

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #5320 on: February 13, 2020, 05:16:38 PM »
https://www.investing.com/news/stock-market-news/tesla-seeks-to-raise-2-billion-through-stock-offering-2083955

Tesla seeks to raise $2 billion through stock offering
Quote
(Reuters) - Tesla (NASDAQ:TSLA) Inc said on Thursday it plans to raise $2 billion by selling shares through a public offering.

Chief Executive Officer Elon Musk will buy up to $10 million in shares, while board member and Oracle (NYSE:ORCL) co-founder Larry Ellison will purchase $1 million worth Tesla shares.

The underwriters will get an option to buy up to $300 million in additional shares.

The electric-car maker said it plans to use the proceeds from the offering to strengthen its balance sheet and for general corporate purposes.

Normally this would cause the stock price to drop, currently pre-market is down only 3% at $745, if they manage to sell the shares at this price it will be a great coup for Tesla.

As the saying goes, you raise capital when you can, not when you need to.
And now TSLA is up 2%. An extremely bullish sign in the face of a stock offering.

NeilT

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #5321 on: February 13, 2020, 06:24:13 PM »
More than that, 3.7% and challenging 800 again.

This funding round will allow the new battery tech and help fund another gigafactory in the US.

Little wonder the stock is rising again.
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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #5322 on: February 13, 2020, 06:58:12 PM »

https://twitter.com/valueanalyst1/status/1227778785946275840
Image below.
Expiration date:  Next Friday.

Quote
< …?
ValueAnalyst (@ValueAnalyst1) 2/13/20, 6:28 AM
It’s not important. It basically shows that the bears who had made HUGE bets for Tesla to go bankrupt by next Friday via “shit-puts” are about to lose all hope.
https://twitter.com/valueanalyst1/status/1227917478577217541
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NeilT

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #5323 on: February 13, 2020, 08:44:40 PM »
Stupid is as stupid does....
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Tor Bejnar

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #5324 on: February 13, 2020, 09:05:07 PM »
Stupid is as stupid does....
Someone should make a movie about that!   :D
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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #5325 on: February 13, 2020, 09:22:52 PM »
Tesla gets permission to prepare a construction site for Gigafactory 4
Quote
“Tesla is now allowed to start this work at it own risk, before a decision is made to approve environmental protection,” said Frauke Zelt, spokeswoman for the Brandenburg Ministry of the Environment in a statement on Thursday. If approval is ultimately denied, Tesla will have to restore it to its original state.
https://www.tesmanian.com/blogs/tesmanian-blog/tesla-gets-permission-to-start-building-gigafactory-4-in-grunheide
Photo below.  Noise levels are also limited, and due to the drinking water protection zone, no refueling of cars on site is permitted.  Good thing there are Teslas: ;)

Quote
Tobias Lindh (@tobilindh) 2/13/20, 9:53 AM
Seems like they are not going to start today. Workers have already left the scene. But at least we've seen the first #Tesla at the factory site of #GigaBerlin.
https://twitter.com/tobilindh/status/1227969059301593092
Photo below.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2020, 09:33:11 PM by Sigmetnow »
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NeilT

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #5326 on: February 13, 2020, 10:09:04 PM »
I'd suggest that it is no fuelling of vehicles, full stop.  Which means each log processor will have to go off site to refuel.  That is going to get old really fast.

Tesla now has 13 days left to clear the trees and with noise level limits they will not be able to work 24x7.
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gerontocrat

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #5327 on: February 13, 2020, 10:31:18 PM »
TESLA  $2 billion stock offering surprised the markets but at the end of the day...

AT CLOSE 4:00 PM EST 02/13/20 $804.00 USD 36.71 4.78%
AFTER HOURS 4:26 PM EST 02/13/20 $808.50 4.50 0.56%

Volume 26,084,457
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https://www.forbes.com/sites/alanohnsman/2020/02/13/tesla-capitalizes-on-stock-surge-with-new-offering-to-raise-more-than-2-billion/
Elon Musk Capitalizes On Tesla Stock’s Hot Streak With $2 Billion Share Offering
Quote
Tesla intends to sell new shares worth about $2 billion amid a remarkable surge in its stock price as investors appear to have decided that operations for Elon Musk’s electric-car company have finally turned a corner. Musk dismissed such a move a few weeks ago, but big capital investment plans may have changed that.

The company said in a filing early Thursday that it will sell at least 2.65 million shares, which would be worth just over $2 billion based on a closing pricing of $767.29 on Feb. 12. It could raise a total of $2.3 billion if underwriters exercise an option to sell up to an additional 397,500 shares, according to the filing. Musk, already Tesla’s biggest shareholder, intends to buy $10 million of the new shares and Oracle chief and Tesla board member Larry Ellison will buy about $1 million worth.

Funds from the offering will come in handy as Tesla said in its annual 10-K filing also released today that it’s budgeting up to $3.5 billion this year for capital investments for a range of projects, including factory construction and upgrades to new products including the Cybertruck pickup and Semi. Tesla is also moving ahead with plans to build a factory in Germany, even as it continues work on the Shanghai plant and Nevada Gigafactory. Early this month, he seemed to hint that a Gigafactory might even be in the works for Texas.
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #5328 on: February 14, 2020, 12:59:04 AM »
I'd suggest that it is no fuelling of vehicles, full stop.  Which means each log processor will have to go off site to refuel.  That is going to get old really fast.

Tesla now has 13 days left to clear the trees and with noise level limits they will not be able to work 24x7.

The (translated) regulation about fueling specifically says “cars.”  But there is a gas station just across the road from the site (presumably it also has diesel). 
Different noise limits were set for day and night, so they will indeed be working at night.  In fact, the Minister of Economics of Brandenburg tweeted that tree cutting started this evening at 17:30 pm.

Quote
Jörg Steinbach (@joergstb) 2/13/20, 11:24 AM
Es geht los! Die Bauvorbereitung hat begonnen. Ein historisches Foto von vor wenigen Minuten. @Tesla @Tesla_DE
#Tesla #Grünheide #Brandenburg
https://twitter.com/joergstb/status/1227992011699052545
Photo below: tree harvester with its lights on and tree in hand (claw thingy [technical term]).

“There we go! Construction preparation has begun. A historical photo from a few minutes ago. @Tesla @Tesla_DE
#Tesla #Grünheide #Brandenburg
« Last Edit: February 14, 2020, 01:06:05 AM by Sigmetnow »
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #5329 on: February 14, 2020, 02:44:28 AM »
Quote
Kelvin Yang (@KelvinYang7) 2/13/20, 9:51 AM
Tesla: give me 2 billion
Market: ok
https://twitter.com/kelvinyang7/status/1227968582929219585

—-
Quote
Disruption Research (@DisruptResearch) 2/13/20, 11:45 AM
This capital raise will turn $TSLA into a NET CASH position, after adjusting convertibles which are more than 100% above their strike price (and hence essentially equity).
By far the strongest balance sheet in the entire industry.
https://twitter.com/disruptresearch/status/1227997202263527425

—-
Quote
James Stephenson (@ICannot_Enough) 2/13/20, 7:48 AM
$TSLA has filed their full year 2019 financial statements (10-K) here: ir.tesla.com/node/20456/html
...
2020 will be a very good year, but 2020 Q1 will not be a very good quarter.
https://twitter.com/icannot_enough/status/1227937492978016257
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NeilT

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #5330 on: February 14, 2020, 06:11:14 AM »
I wonder if anyone in the automotive space is going to have a good Q1 2020.

The only requirement for Tesla is to make a technical profit if they want to get 4 consecutive Q profitable.
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gerontocrat

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #5331 on: February 14, 2020, 05:46:26 PM »
Oracle billionaire Larry Ellison is holding a fundraiser for Donald Trump, where supporters can pay $100,000 for a golf outing and photo op with the president

Now why post this on this thread, you may ask...

Ellison stepped down as Oracle's chief executive in 2014 but remains the company's chairman. He also holds a seat on Tesla's board of directors

You know a man by his friends?



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Sigmetnow

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #5332 on: February 14, 2020, 09:09:39 PM »
Giga Berlin:  the Tesla Forest falls.
Quote
Emil Senkel (@EmilSenkel) 2/14/20, 1:37 PM
First trees have been felled. It is good to see that things are progressing. I am mega excited to see that future technology comes close to my city  :)
https://twitter.com/emilsenkel/status/1228387766083444736

< Are they logging at night?
ES:  24/7
Photo below; more at the link.
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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #5333 on: February 15, 2020, 01:55:53 AM »
Good discussion, including why the raise might be good now even though a couple weeks ago it wasn’t; and how it could result in an increased Earnings Per Share even though there are now more shares outstanding.

Tesla Raises $2+ Billion: Everything You Need To Know (TSLA)




—-

FSD competition.  Not.
Quote
Kim Paquette (@kimpaquette) 2/14/20, 2:09 PM
Hmm their self-driving hardware looks a little different from a #Tesla. #zoox #AutonomousVehicles #FSD
https://twitter.com/kimpaquette/status/1228395751450955777
More photos at the link.
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NeilT

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #5334 on: February 15, 2020, 12:34:15 PM »
So the hedge funds did pile into Tesla in Q4 driving the stock price up and causing the short burn of Jan 2020.

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/business/bridgewater--viking-among-big-hedge-funds-that-added-tesla-in-fourth-quarter-before-rally-12437346

Quote
Bridgewater Associates, Viking Global Investors, and Granite Point Capital were among prominent hedge funds placing new bets on electric carmaker Tesla Inc in the fourth quarter, positioning them to gain from its nearly 100per cent rally over the first six weeks of the year.
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #5335 on: February 15, 2020, 02:03:35 PM »
Giga Berlin

Two environmental groups this week tried to stop the deforestation, but have been overruled by the court.

Of note is that the groups were from Bavaria, some distance away from Brandenburg — and, coincidentally or not, the location of BMW headquarters.  (BMW once considered purchasing the Grünheide tract, but decided on land in Bavaria instead — after much paperwork and environmental assessment had been completed.)  From the comments:  “They (BMW) just needs to delay Tesla by 15 days. Then the whole project is delayed by a year.”

Article (German, also English translation) and comments here:
Quote
Giga Berlin / Gigafactory 4 (@gigafactory_4) 2/14/20, 4:13 AM
The VLAB (Association for Landscape Conservation and Species Protection in Bavaria eV) is filing an urgent application to stop the deforestation at #GigaBerlin ground.
landschaft-artenschutz.de/wp-content/upl…
https://twitter.com/gigafactory_4/status/1228245934242484229

From the article:
Quote
The company expects to clear all of the 90 hectares within the next two weeks.
 They would be within the deadline before March 1st.  The stumps can still be removed from the soil after this date.  Tesla later takes care of the sale of the felled timber and also receives the proceeds.

Outcome:
Quote
@GF4Tesla...build #GigaBerlin. (@Gf4Tesla) 2/14/20, 1:43 PM
Tesla is allowed to continue the clearing on the site of his planned factory. This was decided by the administrative court in Frankfurt (Oder) on Friday in summary proceedings. Thus, applications by two nature conservation associations were unsuccessful.
https://twitter.com/gf4tesla/status/1228389242423955456

Also, respect to the GF4 Twitter folks from the local area who have made the decision “not to show the treefelling. For some people these pictures will be unsettling.”
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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #5336 on: February 15, 2020, 07:28:03 PM »
Quote
Giga Berlin / Gigafactory 4 (@gigafactory_4) 2/15/20, 11:14 AM
I was close to the #GigaBerlin ground an here is what I saw. Its a thread because this time I picked more than four pictures.
Working machines.

#GigaBerlin #Grünheide

My Google Fotos folder is already updated:
Tesla Giga Berlin - Gigafactory 4 - Google Photos
https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipOVTM-avTBP0VMbqc3dynh6a0Gq4z2_t9lrFmAQEuHDrQJVKZpywfh8ec-nKr4slw?key=UGhENXdDelpLTDVsRURKWkNXRVVxdFBYR3Jrc0Vn

https://twitter.com/gigafactory_4/status/1228714321653436421
[Cannot shorten link.  Photo below; others on Twitter and the Google Photos site.]

- What I can see from [outside] is, they are really fast. Could be that they finish in the upcoming week when they can keep the speed. #GigaBerlin #Grünheide

- ...  In addition: People are very excited to see the progress and are honking and waving when they drive by.
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #5337 on: February 15, 2020, 08:48:33 PM »
Drone footage: Tesla's Giga Berlin forest-clearing effort is moving quickly
https://electrek.co/2020/02/15/drone-footage-tesla-giga-berlin-forest-clearing-effort/

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #5338 on: February 15, 2020, 09:06:08 PM »
Drone footage.

Great footage of a large piece of the flat North German Plain dedicated for use as a conifer plantation. Not a lot of biodiversity.

Tesla say they will plant 3x as many trees as they cut down. Just maybe they will plant more than one type of tree. Or maybe not.
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #5339 on: February 15, 2020, 09:22:08 PM »
Drone footage.

Great footage of a large piece of the flat North German Plain dedicated for use as a conifer plantation. Not a lot of biodiversity.

Tesla say they will plant 3x as many trees as they cut down. Just maybe they will plant more than one type of tree. Or maybe not.

I’ve read that they need to plant trees in several areas, since there isn’t one location big enough for all of them.  Tesla is working with government/environmental groups, so there’s a good chance that various and appropriate species will be chosen.

As I noted above, Tesla will receive the proceeds from the harvested timber.  I’d like to see the company do something local and inspirational with that money.
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #5340 on: February 16, 2020, 12:52:17 AM »
Drone footage.

Great footage of a large piece of the flat North German Plain dedicated for use as a conifer plantation. Not a lot of biodiversity.

Tesla say they will plant 3x as many trees as they cut down. Just maybe they will plant more than one type of tree. Or maybe not.

I’ve read that they need to plant trees in several areas, since there isn’t one location big enough for all of them.  Tesla is working with government/environmental groups, so there’s a good chance that various and appropriate species will be chosen.

As I noted above, Tesla will receive the proceeds from the harvested timber.  I’d like to see the company do something local and inspirational with that money.

Confirmation:

“Tesla CEO Elon Musk has promised that the trees taken from the area will be replaced three-fold in areas that surround Brandenburg. While there were some minor roadblocks when looking for land that was suitable for replacement trees, Tesla eventually found space in multiple areas with the help of a German environmental group called Brandenburg Area Agency. The company plans to plant more environmentally beneficial trees this time, instead of the ‘low quality’ that they are removing from the Brandenburg property.”

Tesla Gigafactory Berlin land preparations accelerate as crews work around the clock
https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-gigafactory-berlin-land-preparations-construction-crew-tree-removal/
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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #5341 on: February 16, 2020, 06:12:08 AM »
Tesla CEO Elon Musk has promised ...

... to obey German regulation!

This is not unique to Tesla. Every company has to do that.

If you like this regulation, Elon, stop bullshitting and praise the German law instead!
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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #5342 on: February 16, 2020, 08:05:41 AM »
Tesla CEO Elon Musk has promised ...

... to obey German regulation!

This is not unique to Tesla. Every company has to do that.

If you like this regulation, Elon, stop bullshitting and praise the German law instead!

I'm sorry, but exactly where in these statements :

Quote
“Tesla CEO Elon Musk has promised that the trees taken from the area will be replaced three-fold in areas that surround Brandenburg. While there were some minor roadblocks when looking for land that was suitable for replacement trees, Tesla eventually found space in multiple areas with the help of a German environmental group called Brandenburg Area Agency. The company plans to plant more environmentally beneficial trees this time, instead of the ‘low quality’ that they are removing from the Brandenburg property.”

was Elon "bullshitting" ?

And what is this "praise the German law" BS all about ?
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #5343 on: February 16, 2020, 02:16:22 PM »
Giga Berlin:  Tree removal stopped “temporarily” due to (new) court order; the remaining work could be completed in three days? The general feeling is that work will resume soon.

Quote
Giga Berlin / Gigafactory 4 (@gigafactory_4) 2/15/20, 1:41 PM
The deforestation process was stopped by OVG Berlin Brandenburg (Court).
sueddeutsche.de/wirtschaft/aut…
https://twitter.com/gigafactory_4/status/1228751247911661576
< As German, I am ashamed of this. Sorry world

Oberverwaltungsgericht stoppt Rodungsarbeiten für Tesla-Werk
https://www.sueddeutsche.de/wirtschaft/auto-gruenheide-mark-ovg-stoppt-rodung-fuer-tesla-werk-vorlaeufig-dpa.urn-newsml-dpa-com-20090101-200214-99-910945

February 15, 2020, 7:55 p.m.
Auto - Grünheide (Mark)
Higher Administrative Court stops clearing work for Tesla plant
Quote
Berlin / Grünheide (dpa) - The Higher Administrative Court (OVG) Berlin- Brandenburg has temporarily stopped the ongoing clearing work on the site for the planned Tesla factory in Grünheide. It thus complied with an application from the Brandenburg Green League, as the court announced on Saturday evening. On Friday, the environmental association, together with the Association for Landscape Management and Species Protection in Bavaria (VLAB), failed before the administrative court in Frankfurt (Oder) to prevent the tree felling work with urgent applications.

The now ordered stop applies until the Green League complaint against the Frankfurt decision has been decided, the OVG decision says. The advanced clearing work made it necessary to temporarily ban tree felling work, as it could be completed within a further three days. Also, according to the OVG, it cannot be assumed that "the Green League's request for legal protection is obviously hopeless from the outset".

—-
Quote
Jens-Uwe Köhler (@JukPraxis) 2/16/20, 2:26 AM
The pictures were taken on 15.02.2020 at 11am. After that the clearing was continued for 6 hours.
https://twitter.com/jukpraxis/status/1228943612014190594

TESLA - Giga Berlin | 2020-02-15 | Update #06 - YouTube


3 min drone vid, view from south of Tesla tract. Captions: “small animal resettlement area,” “60% of area cleared”, work stopped due to court order, the feeling is work will resume in a few days.

———
Higher Administrative Court stops clearing work for Tesla site
The Green League of Brandenburg wants to prevent tree felling for the car factory. The OVG has now temporarily prohibited clearing.
16. Februar 2020, 1:22 Uhr Updated February 16, 2020, 7:41 am Source: ZEIT ONLINE, AFP, dpa, Reuters,

Quote
FDP politician Michael Theurer warned of further lawsuits against the planned factory of the electric car manufacturer. "I appeal to everyone who is thinking about a lawsuit to go on again. Do not paralyze Germany as an industrial location," said the Vice-President of the FDP parliamentary group in the Handelsblatt . The exit from coal and nuclear power is already an enormous financial effort for the economy and consumers. But if there is an additional "lawsuit" against the construction of the Tesla plant, the industrial location will be paralyzed. Such lawsuits threaten jobs, value creation and thus the financial basis for the urgently needed climate protection.

https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=de&sl=de&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.zeit.de%2Fpolitik%2Fdeutschland%2F2020-02%2Fgruenheide-tesla-fabrik-oberverwaltungsgericht-rodung-gruene-liga-brandenburg-klage

Grünheide: Oberverwaltungsgericht stoppt Rodungsarbeiten für Tesla-Gelände | ZEIT ONLINE
https://www.zeit.de/politik/deutschland/2020-02/gruenheide-tesla-fabrik-oberverwaltungsgericht-rodung-gruene-liga-brandenburg-klage
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #5344 on: February 16, 2020, 02:39:55 PM »
.
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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #5345 on: February 16, 2020, 04:19:28 PM »
We shall wait and see if the 9% win....
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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #5346 on: February 16, 2020, 04:45:50 PM »
This is ridiculous. The German justice is used as a trolling tool.  >:(
“I’m an introvert. I’m just different that’s all. I’m so sorry. I don’t have a gun. I don’t do that stuff... All I was trying to do was to become better. I’ll do it... You all are phenomenal. You are beautiful. And I love you. Try to forgive me. I’m sorry.”

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #5347 on: February 16, 2020, 08:26:30 PM »
This is ridiculous. The German justice is used as a trolling tool.  >:(
It is the sort of thing that can really damage any chance of the Greens getting into power.
If it had happened earlier (before Tesla had signed up the deal) I rather think Musk would have picked up his wallet and walked.
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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #5348 on: February 16, 2020, 08:50:42 PM »
Sure those people are affiliated with the Greens? Sounds more like AfD people to me.
“I’m an introvert. I’m just different that’s all. I’m so sorry. I don’t have a gun. I don’t do that stuff... All I was trying to do was to become better. I’ll do it... You all are phenomenal. You are beautiful. And I love you. Try to forgive me. I’m sorry.”

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #5349 on: February 16, 2020, 09:06:52 PM »
There is use of the justice system and abuse of the justice system.

From what I have seen elsewhere this group is green affiliated. But I have not checked it out myself.

If they succeed and block the factory for a year you can kiss Giga Berlin goodbye.

Right now the exposure is millions, this can be written off.  Also the 3x trees won't happen, they will be replaced like for like and then wait for the court case when they are harvested.

There are now 10 days to clear the trees.  If the courts hold it up for a week, then it is touch and go.

If the courts are pragmatic, then it will continue and all should be well.

Care to take bets?
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