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gerontocrat

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #5350 on: February 16, 2020, 10:10:44 PM »
From what I have seen elsewhere this group is green affiliated. But I have not checked it out myself.
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2020/feb/16/german-court-tesla-gigafactory-forest
Quote
the complaint brought by a local environmentalist group called the Grüne Liga Brandenburg (Green League of Brandenburg).

https://www.grueneliga-brandenburg.de/index.php

I can't find anything about Tesla on their website. Anyone going to ask them "wots it all abaht, cos I dunno.?"

GREEN LIGA Landesverband Brandenburg eV
House of nature
Lindenstrasse 34
14467 Potsdam
Telephone: 0331/2015520 Fax: 0331/2015522

Email: potsdam @ grueneliga-brandenburg. de
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"And that's all I'm going to say about that". Forrest Gump
"Damn, I wanted to see what happened next" (Epitaph)

blumenkraft

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #5351 on: February 16, 2020, 10:22:02 PM »
I guess i have to call them tomorrow!

Thanks for the info, Gerontocrat.
“I’m an introvert. I’m just different that’s all. I’m so sorry. I don’t have a gun. I don’t do that stuff... All I was trying to do was to become better. I’ll do it... You all are phenomenal. You are beautiful. And I love you. Try to forgive me. I’m sorry.”

Elijah McClain

Yuha

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #5352 on: February 17, 2020, 12:29:41 PM »
A teardown of Model 3 by the Japanese
https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Automobiles/Tesla-teardown-finds-electronics-6-years-ahead-of-Toyota-and-VW2

Some juicy bits:

Quote
But when it comes to electronics technology, Elon Musk's scrappy company is far ahead of the industry giants.
...
One stunned engineer from a major Japanese automaker examined the computer and declared, "We cannot do it."
...
That means Tesla beat its rivals by six years.

And the meat:

Quote
So big automakers apparently feel obliged to continue using complicated webs of dozens of ECUs, while we only found a few in the Model 3. Put another way, the supply chains that have helped today's auto giants grow are now beginning to hamper their ability to innovate.

Young companies like Tesla, on the other hand, are not shackled to suppliers and are free to pursue the best technologies available.

Our teardown underscored this in another way as well.

Most parts inside the Model 3 do not bear the name of a supplier. Instead, many have the Tesla logo, including the substrates inside the ECUs. This suggests the company maintains tight control over the development of almost all key technologies in the car.

blumenkraft

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #5353 on: February 17, 2020, 12:37:38 PM »
How VW and Toyota stocks not dropping like a stone right now is beyond me.
“I’m an introvert. I’m just different that’s all. I’m so sorry. I don’t have a gun. I don’t do that stuff... All I was trying to do was to become better. I’ll do it... You all are phenomenal. You are beautiful. And I love you. Try to forgive me. I’m sorry.”

Elijah McClain

Sigmetnow

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #5354 on: February 17, 2020, 03:18:55 PM »
Quote
@GF4Tesla…build #GigaBerlin. (@Gf4Tesla) 2/16/20, 5:23 AM
The #OVG has given the #LfU (Landesumweltamt) and #Tesla the opportunity to comment until Tuesday noon. This will be done of course. We will then rely on a timely decision of the #OVG
@Tesla.

Statement of the Minister of Economy, to stop tree felling.
twitter.com/joergstb/statu…
https://twitter.com/gf4tesla/status/1228988383931904002
< Incredible things are happening in Germany. People are fighting for something. A public outrage against @VLAB_Natur @GrueneLiga and a broad majority for Tesla and the settlement in Grünheide.

——
Quote
@GF4Tesla...build #GigaBerlin. (@Gf4Tesla) 2/16/20, 1:27 PM
Even though no trees may be felled on the construction site at the moment, the construction work continues all around.
This is the⚡ "Erkner substation"⚡ in - Karutzhöhe - from where the site is supplied with electricity.⚡
https://twitter.com/gf4tesla/status/1229110023520956417
Image below. More photos at link.

- A new access road is being built in the area of future staff parking.
https://twitter.com/gf4tesla/status/1229076273785384962
Photos at the link.

Quote
@GF4Tesla...build #GigaBerlin. (@Gf4Tesla) 2/16/20, 11:23 AM
Guys, look at these pictures, the anthill has been protected and will later be moved to a new area.
https://twitter.com/gf4tesla/status/1229078763704590336
< I do more damage in doing my gardening then tesla building a factory  :) ;D
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #5355 on: February 17, 2020, 03:39:28 PM »
Tesla in 2019: 
Q:  We know Q1 2020 will be tough.  How can we increase revenue at that time?
A: 
Tesla In App Purchase As Revenue Driver, M3 Rear Heater Seat OTA Add-On for $300
https://www.tesmanian.com/blogs/tesmanian-blog/tesla-in-app-purchase-as-revenue-driver-m3-rear-heater-seat-add-on

(Ironically, this warm winter of our climate change could decrease the take rate somewhat. :-\ )
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #5356 on: February 17, 2020, 03:54:11 PM »
Giga Berlin

Quote
Marcel Münch 马赛 (@_mm85) 2/17/20, 8:27 AM
Breaking: A group of activists and squatter allegedly entered #Tesla Giga Berlin, occupying trees in order to stop the progress.
Now we have right-winged, climate denier and tree activists all making a scene at Gruenheide. Insanity!

https://twitter.com/_mm85/status/1229397076922060800
[Photo at link includes an Ikea bag...]
< Looks like they spend too much time at IKEA, which naturally sells products made of trees. You probably cannot even reasonable argue with such individuants.

Edit:
Quote
Caspar - Ecosia.org Searchengine that plants Trees (@DerCaspar) 2/17/20, 8:41 AM
The people that climed the trees at #GigaBerlin will be removed by climbing police forces soon. twitter.com/baumpirat_inne…
https://twitter.com/dercaspar/status/1229400484663975936
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blumenkraft

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #5357 on: February 17, 2020, 03:58:33 PM »
I guess i have to call them tomorrow!

The machine is answering the phone. I tried it several times, no person was reachable.

So i wrote an email. I wrote they lost my vote for being that reactionary. Very formal, not too lengthy.

However, my vote goes to Die Linke anyway. ;)
“I’m an introvert. I’m just different that’s all. I’m so sorry. I don’t have a gun. I don’t do that stuff... All I was trying to do was to become better. I’ll do it... You all are phenomenal. You are beautiful. And I love you. Try to forgive me. I’m sorry.”

Elijah McClain

gerontocrat

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #5358 on: February 17, 2020, 04:32:35 PM »
I guess i have to call them tomorrow!

The machine is answering the phone. I tried it several times, no person was reachable.

So i wrote an email. I wrote they lost my vote for being that reactionary. Very formal, not too lengthy.

However, my vote goes to Die Linke anyway. ;)
I suspect they are surprised at the size of the media storm they have created.
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NeilT

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #5359 on: February 17, 2020, 06:48:02 PM »
Quote
But when it comes to electronics technology, Elon Musk's scrappy company is far ahead of the industry giants.

One stunned engineer from a major Japanese automaker examined the computer and declared, "We cannot do it."
...
That means Tesla beat its rivals by six years.


So the reporting of a very well respected tech journalist that the Tesla ASIC was at least 4 years ahead of anything in the competition was ignored.  Until they actually tore it down and looked for themselves.

This is not really a difficult one.  If the car is doing something your own can't, it is likely that the technology being used is way ahead of the technology you are using.

Of more interest was the comments during the HW3 day.  That the next revision of the HW was expected to be 3X faster for the same power draw.

Or put another way, 18 years ahead of where the Automotive industry today.

I must admit I wonder what the timeline is for HW4???

I posted links, earlier, about the VAG approach to using the Continental model using multiple nodes (read computers), in a virtual mesh, to provide the services they do.
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #5360 on: February 17, 2020, 08:33:08 PM »
Tesla Giga Berlin's mass tree replanting zones are being finalized
Quote
Tesla has found numerous areas surrounding Berlin where it will replace the trees that it will be cutting to make way for its European Gigafactory. The company found target regions in late January but has finalized several specific areas where it will begin planting replacement trees.

Tesla found space for trees in Brandenburg an der Havel (located 64 miles of Giga Berlin), Baruth/Mark (located 41.6 miles from Grünheide) and Bad Saarow (located 20.8 miles from the Giga Berlin site), according to both the Brandenberg Area Agency and local media outlet rbb24.

Tesla enthusiast @gigafactory_4 shared a photograph of a map that highlighted confirmed areas where trees from the initial 90 hectares of land from Giga Berlin’s tree removal process would be replaced. The map shows around 30 different areas where new trees will be planted.

Local agencies suggest that half of the trees be deciduous. ...
https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-giga-berlin-tree-replanting-zones-finalized/
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TerryM

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #5361 on: February 17, 2020, 09:19:58 PM »
Only replacing trees for 90 hectares? Doesn't the factory plan call for many more hectares of forest to be clearcut? Wasn't the initial 90 hectares a relatively small fraction of the forest that Elon intends to destroy?


"We Paved Paradise & put in a Parking Lot" should be Tesla's new theme song!
Terry

KiwiGriff

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #5362 on: February 17, 2020, 09:59:40 PM »
Much ado about nothing.
A farmed monoculture is not an ecology.
In perspective .
We have about 1.3 million hectares of Pinus radiata plantations alone in NZ.  300 to 1000 trees a hectare that are cropped by clear felling  at about every 25 years .

blumenkraft

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #5363 on: February 17, 2020, 10:26:05 PM »
Exactly! This ain't no forest. It's planted wood.
“I’m an introvert. I’m just different that’s all. I’m so sorry. I don’t have a gun. I don’t do that stuff... All I was trying to do was to become better. I’ll do it... You all are phenomenal. You are beautiful. And I love you. Try to forgive me. I’m sorry.”

Elijah McClain

TerryM

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #5364 on: February 17, 2020, 11:03:46 PM »
Any ideas on who planted this Not-A-Forest?
When it was planted?


Terry


oren

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #5365 on: February 18, 2020, 03:20:05 AM »
Much ado about nothing indeed. Has anyone examined all factories being built in Germany? All forests/plantations? I kinda doubt.
It's the Streetlight Effect.

gerontocrat

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #5366 on: February 18, 2020, 09:45:14 AM »
Any ideas on who planted this Not-A-Forest?
When it was planted?
Terry
As KiwiGriff wrote, the trees were probably to be logged for mainly woodpulp 25 years after planting. So they are less than 25 years old, but after logging replanting would have taken place.

But this has been going on for a few hundred years, and you can blame a man called Gutenberg.

Quote
The Gutenberg Bible (also known as the 42-line Bible, the Mazarin Bible or the B42) was among the earliest major books printed using mass-produced movable metal type in Europe. It marked the start of the "Gutenberg Revolution" and the age of printed books in the West. It is an edition of the Latin Vulgate printed in the 1450s by Johannes Gutenberg in Mainz, in present-day Germany.


As the demand for books grew, so did the demand for paper. The natural forest started to be replanted with plantations.

As coal mining developed, conifers were harvested for pit-props, at least until the 1920's, adding to the transformation of Germany's forests.

A similar process happened in parts of the UK. Now there is pressure to increase the variety of trees in the forests for biodiversity and increase their attractiveness as social amenities.
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blumenkraft

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #5367 on: February 18, 2020, 10:13:23 AM »
But this has been going on for a few hundred years, and you can blame a man called Gutenberg.

The forum should have superlikes for cases like that!

Thanks, Gerontocrat! Made my day. :)

Terry, check the drone videos posted above. Those trees are basically in rows. Would you expect a natural forest to grow like that? All trees at the same hight and all?
« Last Edit: February 18, 2020, 07:14:51 PM by blumenkraft »
“I’m an introvert. I’m just different that’s all. I’m so sorry. I don’t have a gun. I don’t do that stuff... All I was trying to do was to become better. I’ll do it... You all are phenomenal. You are beautiful. And I love you. Try to forgive me. I’m sorry.”

Elijah McClain

NeilT

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #5368 on: February 18, 2020, 07:07:46 PM »
Morgan Stanley raises it's bull case on Tesla to $1,200.

But the more important figure is the Bear case at $500.
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #5369 on: February 18, 2020, 07:55:38 PM »
Quote
GF4Tesla...build #GigaBerlin. (@Gf4Tesla) 2/18/20, 7:18 AM
Hier mal eine ( wie Ich finde ) gute Zusammenfassung zum Thema Umweltschutz und Auswirkungen, der Tesla Ansiedlung. Zusammengefasst von den Bündnis 90 Grünen, Brandenburg. Die die Ansiedlung übrigens begrüßen.
gruene-oder-spree.de/tesla-tracker/…
https://twitter.com/gf4tesla/status/1229741896517537798

#GigaBerlin
Here is a ( as I find ) good summary on the topic of environmental protection and impact, the Tesla settlement. Summarized by the Alliance 90 Greens, Brandenburg. Those who, by the way, welcome the settlement.

Quote
The Green District Association Oder-Spree
Tesla Tracker
We welcome the settlement of Tesla in Brandenburg as a contribution to the traffic turnaround. At the same time, we will make sure that environmental protection is not neglected. Here we would like to gather current information and try to answer some of the open questions on an ongoing basis.
...
The planning area was removed from an existing landscape protection area in 2001 in order to offer it to BMW as a factory location. This change in planning has never been reversed and has now become the basis for the offer that Tesla has accepted.
...
Was Tesla allowed to start clearing without permission?
No, they haven't either. There was an official approval by the State Environment Agency for Tesla for an early start of measures according to §8a of the Federal Immission Control Act (BImSchG), ( RBB message , heise.de ). This permit includes the clearing of a partial area of around 90 ha by February 29, i.e. before the start of the growing season. This approval is linked to the requirement, irrespective of the outcome of the approval process for the overall project, to reforest an area of the same size elsewhere. (Elsewhere because it's an industrial area that should be cleared sooner or later, regardless of whether Tesla is settled). Since the process is still ongoing, the clearing is at Tesla's risk. This means that even if they do not buy the site or the building permit is not granted, they must pay the compensation measures. ...
https://gruene-oder-spree.de/tesla-tracker/
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NeilT

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #5370 on: February 18, 2020, 08:46:41 PM »
Well Brandenberg had better hope that Elon  has more patience than he has exhibited in other situations.

Personally I'd tell the courts and the local government that they had till Thursday to make a decision.  If the decision was not continue then I'd cancel the project, take up the offers from Poland and either Czech or Slovakia and build two more factories.  I'd then put the design centre back in the UK where most of the others are.

But that's just me.  I get a little bit irritable at times.

At least, then, they would be guaranteed that no new "environmental" regulations would keep popping up to block progress and when they started cannibalising VAG, BMW and Mercedes sales, the local governments would be cheering them on.

Just a thought.  Not blackmail, consequences.
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #5371 on: February 19, 2020, 12:01:52 AM »
Tesla’s website in Europe now features a statement on their plans for Giga Berlin — and a job listing.

Tesla in Europe
Gigafactory Berlin-Brandenburg | Tesla
https://www.tesla.com/en_gb/gigafactory-berlin
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NeilT

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #5372 on: February 19, 2020, 09:54:08 AM »
Just wondering how that is going to work if the courts hold up the process and they incur a 1 year delay????

I would hope that is not likely, but that is what these groups are intending.
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Rob Dekker

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #5373 on: February 19, 2020, 10:02:26 AM »
So Grüne Liga managed to stop Tesla's work at Brandenburg with a temporary injunction, which may be just long enough to delay work for the EV maker by a year, because Tesla cannot take down any trees after breeding season starts in this man-made forest. Which is in about 8 days from now.

https://www.dailyinterlake.com/article/20200216/AP/302169917

A "green" organization protesting against a "green" automotive company ?

What's going on here ?

I dug around a bit an came across this interview with Heinz-Herwig Mascher, the chairman of the Brandenburg Grüne Liga :

https://www.sueddeutsche.de/wirtschaft/tesla-brandenburg-klage-1.4802652

This is the core of his argument :

Quote
We fear that a precedent will be created here. If Tesla really does manage to put this factory down in a year and a half, others will see how it went. Then several environmental protection laws come under pressure because it is said: "In the Tesla case they were not applied."

Now, that's a fair point to make, but in this case Tesla takes all the risks :
If Tesla doed NOT get the permits they need to complete their plant, they would need to restore the site to it's original, or even better :

Quote
If Tesla is not allowed to build the Grünheide factory, the company must replace the felled pine monoculture with a mixed forest. Wouldn't that be an improvement?

to which Heinz-Herwig Mascher answers :

Quote
That would be an upgrade. But I don't know whether this is legally mandatory.

So he doesn't trust an agreement that Tesla already signed.

Yet his lawyers still managed to convince the courts to put this $ 4 billion, 12,000 job electric car project on hold and possibly for over a year.

Mr Heinz-Herwig Mascher and his Grüne Liga seem to prefer gasoline cars and slow moving projects.

And he doesn't seem to realize that to stop the climate crisis we need immediate and bold action to move our transportation systems away from fossil fuels and towards renewable energy.

Maybe Tesla should look elsewhere, because with Grüne Liga in charge, we are just going to get Fossil Fuel BAU.

[edit] The "partners" of Grüne Liga Brandenburg are listed here :
https://grueneliga-brandenburg.de/index.php?cat=17&pageID=40
They include "Die Linke" as the political party supporting them.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2020, 10:51:07 AM by Rob Dekker »
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NeilT

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #5374 on: February 19, 2020, 01:18:09 PM »
Meanwhile, Tesla shares are over 920 in  Pre market trading.
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #5375 on: February 19, 2020, 02:20:14 PM »
New, as of last night:
Quote
Tesla Daily (@TeslaPodcast) 2/18/20, 11:56 PM
Piper Sandler's Alex Potter increases $TSLA price target to $928 from $729 on increased outlook for solar/storage business.

"With 5M new rooftops installed annually in the U.S., the addressable market for #Tesla's integrated solar roof is ~$165B/yr (assuming $33k per project)."

https://twitter.com/teslapodcast/status/1229993167279267841
Quote
Alter Viggo (@AlterViggo) 2/19/20, 12:26 AM
I appreciated how forthright he was about how they're not really modeling grid-scale utility market, etc. That sense of humility really helps build trust in their work.
It starts at the 1:11:00 mark here:
podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/tes…  [youtube link below]
https://twitter.com/alterviggo/status/1230000656280256512

——
From December 2019:
Alex Potter, analyst at Piper Jaffray, and Rob Maurer discuss Tesla's valuation, China potential, competition, risks, and investor theses.

Youtube link, including detailed disclosures: #https://youtu.be/z9k3ppSk0oA


1:06 - Introduction 3:33 - How long has Alex been bullish? 5:12 - Product diligence 6:07 - Why has Alex become more bullish? 10:05 - How high can market share go? 10:58 - Bear/bull theses 14:15 - Tesla in China 42:52 - Competition 52:38 - EV profitability 53:45 - EV credits/regulations 1:02:01 - Tesla’s updside 1:03:30 - Demand 1:07:10 - Price target 1:09:55 - Tesla Energy 1:11:44 - Autonomy 1:17:05 - Talent
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #5376 on: February 19, 2020, 02:48:03 PM »
TWO Teslas traveling opposite directions are struck by the same huge falling tree.
Quote
Kitty McConnell (@Kitty_McConnell) 2/18/20, 4:16 AM
I was in one of the Tesla hit by the tree. It wasnt solely the [Automatic Emergency Braking] system that saved our lives, but the design of the car and crumple zone that saved us.
https://twitter.com/kitty_mcconnell/status/1229696206412099585
- ...although the [braking] system stopped this trunk from being on our glass roof..... so nobody can deny the [braking] saved our lives.

Tesla Autopilot saves family's lives after tree crushes car in Storm Dennis - Mirror Online
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/tesla-autopilot-saves-familys-life-21512255
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #5377 on: February 19, 2020, 03:03:15 PM »
Expecting the Giga Berlin court decision today?  Or simply trying to prevent more protesters from entering?
Video clips at the links.

Quote
@GF4Tesla...build #GigaBerlin. (@Gf4Tesla) 2/19/20, 7:33 AM
#GigaBerlin
13:30 CET police helicopter flies over the area.
I don't know why...
https://twitter.com/gf4tesla/status/1230108224810037250

@GF4Tesla...build #GigaBerlin. (@Gf4Tesla) 2/19/20, 7:51 AM
#GigaBerlin
13:50 CET a large police contingent at the main entrance of GigaBerlin.
https://twitter.com/gf4tesla/status/1230112714695073792

@GF4Tesla...build #GigaBerlin. (@Gf4Tesla) 2/19/20, 8:34 AM
#GigaBerlin
Police have also positioned themselves at the newly built access road to the future staff parking lots.
https://twitter.com/gf4tesla/status/1230123425685032960
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oren

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #5378 on: February 19, 2020, 03:27:08 PM »
"With 5M new rooftops installed annually in the U.S., the addressable market for #Tesla's integrated solar roof is ~$165B/yr (assuming $33k per project)."

"Sense of humility really helps build trust in their work."
I thought the combination of these statements (by and about Alex Potter) was funny, for a product that 4 years after its launch has still not proven its worth, and was probably vaporware when first presented.

Sigmetnow

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #5379 on: February 19, 2020, 03:54:33 PM »
Quote
@GF4Tesla...build #GigaBerlin. (@Gf4Tesla) 2/19/20, 9:40 AM
#GigaBerlin
The Minister of Economics of Brandenburg ( Jörg Steinbach ) just said in an interview that the court's decision is expected before the end of the week and that he is confident that TESLA will be able to continue its work next week.
https://twitter.com/gf4tesla/status/1230140105190445056
Video in German at the subtweet.
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #5380 on: February 19, 2020, 04:12:03 PM »
"With 5M new rooftops installed annually in the U.S., the addressable market for #Tesla's integrated solar roof is ~$165B/yr (assuming $33k per project)."

"Sense of humility really helps build trust in their work."
I thought the combination of these statements (by and about Alex Potter) was funny, for a product that 4 years after its launch has still not proven its worth, and was probably vaporware when first presented.

By definition, not “vaporware” since it exists, and most certainly was intended to come to market, even back then.

I will accept “repeatedly delayed as the product went through multiple improved versions, mass production roll-out at Giga New York, and training of installers.”  :)

Tesla launches Solarglass (Solar Roof V3) starting at $33,950 for average home
https://electrek.co/2019/10/25/tesla-solarglass-solar-roof-v3-price/
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #5381 on: February 19, 2020, 07:25:29 PM »
A long-time, professional analyst with extensive personal experience with Tesla products. 8)

Piper Sandler raised its price target on Tesla to $928 from $729
Quote
Piper raised its price target on Tesla to a Street high and said it thinks the company can have the same success in storage and solar power that it's had with autos.

"We're nudging our price target higher after installing a solar system to charge a Model X. Since August 2016, we have been using a Model X SUV in a four-person, single-vehicle household. After logging 53,448 miles and surviving four Minnesota winters, we are convinced that Tesla's automotive products offer a superior ownership experience. If history is any indication, we'll eventually be saying something similar about generating and storing our own solar power. But for now we're increasingly our price target from $729 to $928, which is enough to partially capture TSLA's solar+storage opportunity in our 20-year DCF."


Tesla is popping again and has already topped the most bullish analyst 12-month price forecast
Published Wed, Feb 19 2020
Quote
Shares of Tesla are jumping yet again, up more than 8% on Wednesday to $930 per share.

The catalyst for the electric automaker's stock once again is a big call on Wall Street. Piper Sandler hiked Tesla's price target to $928 per share, the highest on Wall Street, according to FactSet.

Ironically, Tesla exceeded that 12-month forecast in a single day on Wednesday with its surge.

Piper Sandler said Tesla's push into new areas of clean energy will drive the stock higher; however, the firm's new target price is below Tesla's peak earlier this month.
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/02/19/shares-of-tesla-are-popping-again-up-7percent-after-another-uber-bullish-call-on-wall-street.html
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #5382 on: February 19, 2020, 07:44:59 PM »
All Automatic Emergency Braking systems are not equal. ;)

Video:  https://twitter.com/thirdrowtesla/status/1229916882339164160
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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #5383 on: February 19, 2020, 08:01:55 PM »
Rumor of Tesla Brazil Gigafactory Project Approaching by Government
Quote
According to NSC Total, negotiations are beginning, in an attempt to attract the North American automaker of the highest technological level, which has revolutionized the industry in recent years to Brazil with the goal of building a factory. Journalists claim that it is Tesla, although neither the government nor federal deputy Daniel Freitas - an interlocutor of the Ministry of Science and Technology - confirms the name of the automaker.

Freitas only says it is one of the most valuable automakers to be able to open one of its units in South America in three years. On Wednesday, February 12, the deputy met with the Minister of Science and Technology Marcos Pontes to outline a plan for addressing the company. The federal government must demonstrate the benefits that would allow this automaker to come to Brazil. If the American manufacturer is interested in the offer, the government is committed to making efforts to establish a factory in Santa Catarina. ...
https://www.tesmanian.com/blogs/tesmanian-blog/rumor-of-tesla-brazil-gigafactory-project-approaching-by-government
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #5384 on: February 19, 2020, 08:34:16 PM »
“We’re all about finding the next big thing.”

Cathie Wood, the Best Investor You’ve Never Heard Of
For all her success in picking winners, she has received little notice. Her (so far) prescient Tesla bet should change that.
February 18, 2020
Quote
Who is Cathie Wood?
She’s already in the pantheon of top money handlers over any period in the past five years, and has been the most persuasive — and so far prescient — champion of Tesla Inc.

Her actively managed Ark Innovation ETF is the best performer among 584 funds with at least $1 billion of assets in the global equity market, crushing the likes of BlackRock with a return of 165% (income plus appreciation) the past three years, and she beat 99% of them since Ark Investment Management LLC became a registered investment adviser in January 2014, according to data compiled by Bloomberg.
...

Soon after launching Ark in 2014, Wood made Tesla her fifth-largest holding. In 2018, she increased it to No. 1, or 10% of the fund, as most analysts soured on the maker of zero-emission, battery-electric vehicles.

In 2016, when Tesla plummeted 11%, and 75% of the analyst recommendations opposed any purchases, Wood almost tripled her Tesla position to 5,072 shares. The following year, after Tesla appreciated 46%, and 68% of the analysts remained bearish, she enlarged her stake more than 13 times to 67,653 shares, according to data compiled by Bloomberg. When Tesla rallied 26% last year amid tepid recommendations from 70% of the analysts, she almost doubled her stake to 471,594 shares.

Tesla continued climbing this year — 91%, the best performer in the Nasdaq 100 index and No. 1 among the 500 most highly capitalized U.S. companies. Wood was a consistent seller during the rally — reducing her holding to 292,000 shares — solely to keep her Tesla stake at the designated maximum 10% of her fund.

“If we hadn’t sold, Tesla would probably be well north of 20% in the portfolio,” she said during a phone interview last week. “Last year, we were buying aggressively when analysts were saying Tesla was going to run out of cash and go bankrupt.” Tesla still is “incredibly undervalued,” she said.

That’s an opinion considered absurd by most analysts, who insist nothing justifies Tesla’s valuation at almost $150 billion, or 58% more than the market capitalization of global sales leader Volkswagen AG. 

On the contrary, says Wood, Tesla’s share of EV sales increased a percentage point to 18% when the so-called Tesla killers — from BYD Co. Ltd and BAIC Motor Corp. in China to Nissan Motor Co. in Japan and Volkswagen, Bayerische Motoren Werke AG and Daimler AG in Germany and General Motors Co. and Ford Motor Co. in the U.S — started selling their own battery-electric vehicles. Wood believes the legacy automakers will lose money on their EVs, while Tesla becomes increasingly profitable and remains years ahead of its rivals in battery and chip technology.

The company also has 14 billion miles of real-world driving data. Its closest competitor, Waymo, has data on 20 million miles. ...
https://www.bloomberg.com/amp/opinion/articles/2020-02-18/cathie-wood-s-tesla-bet-puts-ark-invest-in-spotlight
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NeilT

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #5385 on: February 19, 2020, 10:49:12 PM »
From what i'm reading the general trend seems to be that the analysts have just woken up to the fact that Tesla is a Vehicle manufacturer, a Technology company An Energy company and an Energy Storage company.  Plus an Insurance company.

Also that the whole vehicle side might just become a  to the complement to the rest of the business in the long run.

Been a long time coming guys.

Yes Solar Roof is 4 years overdue.

However it has to be said, over and over again until it sinks in, that trying to make Solar Roof a success, without ensuring M3 was a success, would have Ensured that Tesla failed.

Now Tesla has a roaring success in the motor vehicle business and can use that foundation to spend the next decade climbing to the top of the Energy/storage business.

When going on about how over leveraged Tesla shares are, it is worth noting that Berkshire Hathaway shares are worth $344k with a market cap of $561bn.

It is not the current day to day value or profit or revenue which is driving Tesla shares.  It is the future potential of the company.

Whilst the shorts could cast doubt on the future potential, Tesla shares were artificially low.  That has now been corrected as nobody in their right mind will see Tesla as having no market and no viable production.  With a doubling of output capability by year end, Tesla is doing just fine.

Mind you if there is a major hiccup with Giga Berlin it might dent it a bit.
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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #5386 on: February 19, 2020, 11:01:37 PM »
How a Little Electrical Tape Can Trick a Tesla Into Speeding
https://www.vox.com/recode/2020/2/19/21143933/tesla-artificial-intelligence-model-hacking-speeding

...Over the course of 18 months, the researchers, whose report was published today, explored how they could get a Tesla to misread a speed limit by messing with the vehicle’s ability to see. To make that happen, the researchers placed visual distractions like stickers and tape that could trick the car’s camera system into misreading a 35-miles-per-hour speed limit.



While the researchers successfully spoofed the camera’s reading in several different ways, they found that just a 2-inch piece of black electrical tape across the middle of the 3 in a 35 MPH speed limit sign could cause the system to read the sign as an 85 MPH sign. In a live test with a 2016 Model S70 using an EyeQ3 camera from MobilEye, they found that, when the Tesla Automatic Cruise Control (TACC) was activated, the vehicle’s system would attempt to determine the current speed limit with help from the camera.

That’s when those visual distractions — that small piece of black tape, in one case — could cause the car to misread the speed limit and head toward the 85 MPH speed.

“There are three classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see.” ― Leonardo da Vinci

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NeilT

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #5387 on: February 19, 2020, 11:32:33 PM »
According to Teslarati, the minister of Economics for Brandenberg recons the courts will let Tesla get back to felling next week.

But there were mentions of this little story about a local major infra project.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-48527308

I mean, how good is your confidence in the local politicians?
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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #5388 on: February 20, 2020, 07:16:19 AM »
Neil, in Germany the separation of power is working quite well. A politician and a judge are two independent entities here.

So the question is not what a politician sais. It's what the judge sais. Period.
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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #5389 on: February 20, 2020, 11:10:42 AM »
Yep, I know.  It was the way Teslarati assumed that the minister could predict the outcome.  Didn't seem to work for me.

Then I read the comments....
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NeilT

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #5390 on: February 20, 2020, 02:46:32 PM »
So there you have it. Apparently Electric cars are not the solution so we should not be cutting down a farmed forest to make Electric cars.

https://taz.de/Ende-Gelaende-ueber-Tesla-in-Brandenburg/!5665283/

This interview makes it pretty clear that they think the solution is not cars and not manufacturing our way out of the problem.

Great, get the courts to agree, move the factory elsewhere in the EU and just move on.

Even if Tesla win this battle, this is going to go on for decades.  With challenge after challenge.

Why go there.
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #5391 on: February 20, 2020, 03:58:41 PM »
Quote
That’s when those visual distractions — that small piece of black tape, in one case — could cause the car to misread the speed limit and head toward the 85 MPH speed.

That is not “hacking,” that is defacing a road sign, which is illegal.  And the same thing confuses humans, as well.  Shall we now try to confuse FSD by covering up “Do Not Enter” signs?  Data available to an autonomous car can tell it what and where and signs were, historically — knowledge most humans will not have.
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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #5392 on: February 20, 2020, 05:16:14 PM »
^
Reminds me of the old timer's directions: "Turn left where the mill used to be."
or "Just tell them you work in the old 'Service Merchandise' building."  [SM not only moved from the site 5 years before I started working there, the store had already moved again.]
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #5393 on: February 20, 2020, 05:19:47 PM »
Giga Berlin: the court expects to make its decision this week, possibly late today, Thursday.

Quote
Alex (@alex_avoigt) 2/20/20, 6:55 AM
GF4 OVG Update

The court speaker informed that until today Thursday the OVG still receives statements from the involved parties but the probability is high to make a final decision today, latest tomorrow.

That statement indicated its a clear case.
https://twitter.com/alex_avoigt/status/1230460947116044288

- According to sources The Grüne Liga organization offered a compromise to step back from the case if a 30km protection fence against dust storms is build
Tesla agreed but only 2 of the 4 Board Members of the VLBA Club from Bavaria did agree

Its ridiculous
Links to two brief German articles at the link.
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blumenkraft

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #5394 on: February 20, 2020, 10:14:57 PM »
Via Twitter

Quote
@Gf4Tesla
#GigaBerlin
The complaint of the " environmental associations " against TESLA was dismissed ✌👊🍾
Tesla can continue working.🤩👍
https://mobile.twitter.com/Gf4Tesla/status/1230590581212143618

Pew!
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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #5395 on: February 20, 2020, 10:37:32 PM »
Via Twitter

Quote
@Gf4Tesla
#GigaBerlin
The complaint of the " environmental associations " against TESLA was dismissed ✌👊🍾
Tesla can continue working.🤩👍
https://mobile.twitter.com/Gf4Tesla/status/1230590581212143618

Pew!
Pew = a bench in a Church,
Phew = an exclamation of relief

You relied on a tsla tweet to bring the news but I  relied on the Berliner MorgenPost
@ https://www.morgenpost.de/brandenburg/article228488617/Oberverwaltungsgericht-hebt-Tesla-Baustopp-in-Gruenheide-auf.html.

Two environmental associations had lodged a complaint against the grubbing-up work. The higher administrative court rejected this in the evening........

....The decision is final.

Betcha they try and stop Planning permission for the factory.

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blumenkraft

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #5396 on: February 20, 2020, 11:09:21 PM »
No, Gero, the 'pew' from Star Wars. You know, when they shoot lasers. ;)

(No, not really. Thanks for the correction, i meant 'phew' of course)
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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #5397 on: February 21, 2020, 12:18:41 AM »
The court said the early start for the factory preparation was rightly confirmed and known long before now, and the plaintiffs should not have waited until the last minute to file a complaint.

The OVG allowed Tesla to continue deforestation for Gigafactory 4
Quote
The Berlin-Brandenburg Supreme Administrative Court (OVG) rejected the complaints of two environmental associations. This means that the American automaker Tesla is allowed to continue cutting trees at the site of the planned Gigafactory 4 in Grünheide near Berlin.

This gives Tesla a green light to continue cutting down trees on a part of the site until the start of the growing season. This decision is not subject to dispute.

The Brandenburg State Environmental Agency has approved the early start of tree felling, but a final permit for the construction of the Giga Berlin has not yet been received.

OVG explained in its reasoning that the legal prerequisites for the early start of the construction of the plant were rightly confirmed. The competent authority should not have waited until March for a period of objections in the framework of public participation, since it had the necessary knowledge to assess the likelihood of project approval. ...
https://www.tesmanian.com/blogs/tesmanian-blog/the-court-allowed-tesla-to-continue-deforestation-for-gigafactory-4
« Last Edit: February 21, 2020, 12:40:30 AM by Sigmetnow »
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #5398 on: February 21, 2020, 12:36:47 AM »
Consumer Reports: The Model 3 is our top-ranked EV (and the only American-made Top Pick), and Tesla rises to #11 in our Automaker list.

Tesla Model 3 Is Consumer Reports' Top EV Pick for 2020
Quote
Apart from the Model 3’s award, Tesla also exhibited the most significant improvement among the carmakers ranked by Consumer Reports, moving up eight spots to claim 11th place in the organization’s list. Tesla's rise among the ranks may have to do with the increased reliability of the Model 3 and the Model S. Interestingly enough, Tesla stands as the lone American automaker close to Consumer Reports’ recent Top 10 list. The highest spots in the rankings are usually dominated by companies from Japan, South Korea, and Germany. ...
https://www.tesmanian.com/blogs/tesmanian-blog/tesla-consumer-reports-model-3-ranks-top-ev-pick-for-2020

Tesla Model 3 ranks as only American-made car in Consumer Reports’ Top Picks of 2020
Quote
The Tesla Model 3 was the only American vehicle in Consumer Reports‘ Top 10 Picks of 2020. The list is comprised of CR’s highest-rated vehicles by factoring in road tests, reliability, owner satisfaction, and safety ratings.

The 2020 Top Picks’ list recognized the best Small Car, small SUV, Hybrid, Midsized Sedan, Large Sedan, Midsized Three-Row SUV, Compact Pickup Truck, Midsized SUV, Sports Car, and Electric Car available to consumers today.

The Tesla Model 3 was recognized by the publication as the best available electric vehicle on the market. But even more impressive is that the Model 3 was also the only domestic, American-made vehicle on the list. Meaning, not only has the most affordable Tesla become the best EV for mainstream buyers today, but the Model 3 has established itself as one of the best American-made cars today, period. ...
https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-model-3-consumer-reports-top-picks-of-2020/
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NeilT

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Re: Tesla glory/failure
« Reply #5399 on: February 21, 2020, 01:57:36 AM »
And the court has ruled that Tesla can carry on cutting down the trees.

Now the race against the clock is really on.
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