Support the Arctic Sea Ice Forum and Blog

Author Topic: Arctic Ocean salinity, temperature and waves  (Read 45568 times)

uniquorn

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1254
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 560
  • Likes Given: 106
Re: Arctic Ocean salinity, temperature and waves
« Reply #400 on: July 26, 2019, 10:59:16 AM »
Thanks aslan.
The floe that whoi itp110 is/was tethered to must be very close to 0m thickness today. Profiler still struggling at 8-100m but the microcat and sami charts suggest open water. https://www.whoi.edu/page.do?pid=163197
Location is close to the centre of the first image. https://go.nasa.gov/2K8EKoM.

uniquorn

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1254
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 560
  • Likes Given: 106
Re: Arctic Ocean salinity, temperature and waves
« Reply #401 on: July 27, 2019, 11:26:34 AM »
whoi itp110 almost certainly in open water looking at today's lovely clear worldview image. itp103 rough location is also circled. Buoy temperature settling down to 2-3C. PAR on the sami still very high.
@Bruce Steele do you think the internal buoy temperature is a reasonable indication of SST now that most of the buoy is sitting in water.

uniquorn

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1254
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 560
  • Likes Given: 106
Re: Arctic Ocean salinity, temperature and waves
« Reply #402 on: July 28, 2019, 09:57:10 AM »
@Bruce I guess that's a no. It's reading over 8C this morning just off the ice front.

uniquorn

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1254
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 560
  • Likes Given: 106
Re: Arctic Ocean salinity, temperature and waves
« Reply #403 on: July 29, 2019, 10:24:52 AM »
whoi itp110 at beaufort ice edge with microcat and sami mounted at 6m depth. Both indicating temperatures above zero today. Internal buoy temperature at 7.6C.
Profiler only occasionally managing to move between 7m-90m

Rich

  • Guest
Re: Arctic Ocean salinity, temperature and waves
« Reply #404 on: July 29, 2019, 11:22:12 AM »
 I'm not an expert on much, but I do check the SST:s from two different sources (windy and GFS) on a daily basis. You may have noted a few recent  posts on the main thread tracking SST data.

I've never noted anything close to the kind of 7-8C temperature inside the buoy in the ice edge SST. Pretty sure that what is going on inside the buoy is not reflecting SST.

Bruce Steele

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1410
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 82
  • Likes Given: 8
Re: Arctic Ocean salinity, temperature and waves
« Reply #405 on: July 29, 2019, 05:05:09 PM »
Uniquorn, Having melted out of the pack and with the increases in PAR at itp 110 I would expect temperatures at the microcat depths to continue their increases. And the internal bouy temperatures are not very informative.
 The salinity on the microcat page  at the itp 107 location is interesting to me. I thought most of the fresh water flowing out of Siberian rivers moved to the location off the Chukchi Hinderlands where itp 107 currently resides but I am wondering how the fresh water from Siberian rivers moves across the Chukchi plateau . I am wondering if there is more mixing with the surface layer than the water that flows out of the Bering Sea?
So does the Bering Sea outflow mix with the Siberian waters before they both sink or does some of the Siberian fresh water stay on the surface as it travels across the Plateau ?

Also could you show the PAR data for itp 107 ? The readings exceed the range of the chart on the main page. I should be able to find the answer in the metadata but I haven't been able to do so. Thanks in advance.

uniquorn

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1254
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 560
  • Likes Given: 106
Re: Arctic Ocean salinity, temperature and waves
« Reply #406 on: July 29, 2019, 10:21:47 PM »
download itp107grddata and extract. Its at the bottom itp107sami.dat.
out of the loop for a bit but will keep an eye on this thread if you need anything.

uniquorn

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1254
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 560
  • Likes Given: 106
Re: Arctic Ocean salinity, temperature and waves
« Reply #407 on: August 01, 2019, 10:47:18 PM »
Reposting these for reference.
noaa bathymetry with unihamburg amsr2-uhh overlay, september minimums 2012-2018

uniquorn

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1254
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 560
  • Likes Given: 106
Re: Arctic Ocean salinity, temperature and waves
« Reply #408 on: August 01, 2019, 10:51:19 PM »
noaa bathymetry with unihamburg amsr2-uhh overlay, mar21-jul29
 

uniquorn

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1254
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 560
  • Likes Given: 106
Re: Arctic Ocean salinity, temperature and waves
« Reply #409 on: August 01, 2019, 10:52:34 PM »
mercator salinity 34m with unihamburg amsr2-uhh overlay, mar21-jul30

Shared Humanity

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 3812
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 316
  • Likes Given: 37
Re: Arctic Ocean salinity, temperature and waves
« Reply #410 on: August 01, 2019, 11:37:35 PM »
Great animations! I forgot how crappy the ice was at the end of the 2016 melt season.

uniquorn

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1254
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 560
  • Likes Given: 106
Re: Arctic Ocean salinity, temperature and waves
« Reply #411 on: August 05, 2019, 07:11:59 PM »
itp buoys updating again today. Here is whoi itp110 day 210-217  https://www.whoi.edu/page.do?pid=163197
click to run
« Last Edit: August 05, 2019, 07:19:04 PM by uniquorn »

uniquorn

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1254
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 560
  • Likes Given: 106
Re: Arctic Ocean salinity, temperature and waves
« Reply #412 on: August 07, 2019, 11:13:03 PM »
gmrt bathymetry with unihamburg amsr2-uhh overlay at 75% transparent. Open water, normally dark blue, set to fully transparent, jul1-aug6.
Posting full arctic here for a while for those who are interested.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2019, 01:13:35 AM by uniquorn »

oren

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 4159
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 666
  • Likes Given: 1186
Re: Arctic Ocean salinity, temperature and waves
« Reply #413 on: August 07, 2019, 11:23:58 PM »
Thank you uniquorn.

uniquorn

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1254
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 560
  • Likes Given: 106
Re: Arctic Ocean salinity, temperature and waves
« Reply #414 on: August 07, 2019, 11:51:05 PM »
Thank you uniquorn.
no pic, didn't happen ;)
sometimes I don't see things till they are online

uniquorn

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1254
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 560
  • Likes Given: 106
Re: Arctic Ocean salinity, temperature and waves
« Reply #415 on: August 13, 2019, 10:24:30 PM »
update on whoi itp103 which seems to be struggling with drift speed and/or turbulence since day209 over the beaufort shelf west of Banks Island.
Only showing temperature as the profiler is hardly moving at the moment.

uniquorn

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1254
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 560
  • Likes Given: 106
Re: Arctic Ocean salinity, temperature and waves
« Reply #416 on: August 13, 2019, 10:44:09 PM »
update on whoi itp110. Latest profile is day118, a couple of days ago but look at the drift speed.
Only showing temperature here.

MyACIsDying

  • New ice
  • Posts: 17
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 6
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Arctic Ocean salinity, temperature and waves
« Reply #417 on: August 14, 2019, 12:14:04 AM »
I see you mentioned it earlier but the floe melting out could be causing the increase in drift speed right? Last position on 2019/8/13 64548 UTC : 72.2444° N, 138.7633° W

uniquorn

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1254
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 560
  • Likes Given: 106
Re: Arctic Ocean salinity, temperature and waves
« Reply #418 on: August 14, 2019, 12:15:37 AM »
highly likely a contributing factor. There was also a small cyclone over that area a couple of days ago
https://earth.nullschool.net/#2019/08/11/2100Z/wind/surface/level/orthographic=-43.48,86.03,1542/loc=-138.270,71.130

Comparison of mercator 0m salinity, jul1-aug12, 2017-2019
maybe overlay the ice tomorrow
« Last Edit: August 14, 2019, 12:25:55 AM by uniquorn »

uniquorn

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1254
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 560
  • Likes Given: 106
Re: Arctic Ocean salinity, temperature and waves
« Reply #419 on: August 15, 2019, 12:31:18 AM »
maybe overlay the ice tomorrow
or not

aslan

  • Frazil ice
  • Posts: 114
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 37
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Arctic Ocean salinity, temperature and waves
« Reply #420 on: August 16, 2019, 04:54:21 PM »
And now ITP 110 has hoisted the white flag and surrender. No news since two weeks. Too bad, as Mercator is showing extreme warmth in Beaufort. It should have been interesting to see what really happens here. The build up of heat shown at 30m and 100m is like nothing ever seen. Will this have an influence on refreeze season ? And Mercator was shown to be warming not enough compared to ITP 100. Depite this, in part of the Beaufort Sea, the big mess is going on and on, with a loosening of the stratification and a build up of energy wich is beyond superlatives and the "spot the difference" game ... Where now the Pacific layer and the halocline ? Where is the freshening and the cooling ? I don't know where we are going at this pace, but here we go.

P.S. : There is no special reason for a comparison with 2016, it was only to give a point of reference for a year wich was in its own quite bad for Arctic.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2019, 05:06:38 PM by aslan »

aslan

  • Frazil ice
  • Posts: 114
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 37
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Arctic Ocean salinity, temperature and waves
« Reply #421 on: August 17, 2019, 04:53:35 PM »
I make a quick map to compare 2019 on the 26th of August (forecast from Mercator) to mean from 2016, 2017, 2018. I don't know why, I was not able to download data for prior years, I don't know why... Excepted for the Barents sea which is cooler than over the 3 previous years (also the case for SSTs with a true base period), everywhere the warmth is showing, and even in the central basin there is streams of abnormally warm temperature.

FishOutofWater

  • Grease ice
  • Posts: 738
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 267
  • Likes Given: 108
Re: Arctic Ocean salinity, temperature and waves
« Reply #422 on: August 17, 2019, 05:38:59 PM »
Mercator has made multiple "improvements" of their model and their data sets over the years. Every time they make an improvement the older images are removed from public access. I find it frustrating when it becomes impossible to go back more than a year or 2 to make comparisons.

Some very important things are happening in the Beaufort and other Arctic seas, but we are almost blind to what's happening because of the paucity of buoys and ships monitoring the Arctic. It's crazy that there isn't better monitoring of the Arctic.

johnm33

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1253
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 61
  • Likes Given: 34
Re: Arctic Ocean salinity, temperature and waves
« Reply #423 on: August 17, 2019, 06:46:06 PM »
110 took quite a battering, I'm guessing intersecting waves reflected off the shelves caused a huge pressure spike on the 15th July, it looks like it 'bounced' generating tauroidal 'smoke ring' type wave structures which spread across the whole basin sending shockwaves back which damaged 110 when it approached the shelf/amundsen generated tidal vortices around the 5th. 1.7mb gif won't be here long
link
switched gif for link
« Last Edit: Today at 11:10:06 AM by johnm33 »

blumenkraft

  • Frazil ice
  • Posts: 253
  • Fans of Hans Club - circa 2018
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 118
  • Likes Given: 139
Re: Arctic Ocean salinity, temperature and waves
« Reply #424 on: August 17, 2019, 07:07:55 PM »
Wow, that's fascinating. Thanks for sharing John!
“You are not entitled to your opinion. You are entitled to your informed opinion. No one is entitled to be ignorant.”

aslan

  • Frazil ice
  • Posts: 114
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 37
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Arctic Ocean salinity, temperature and waves
« Reply #425 on: August 17, 2019, 08:34:25 PM »
Yes it is probably the explanation, despite Copernicus showing data available since 2006. And yes it is really frustrating to be blind while the Beaufort sea is beaten like never. The beaufort gyre is quite an important thing, but who know what is really happening ?

uniquorn

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1254
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 560
  • Likes Given: 106
Re: Arctic Ocean salinity, temperature and waves
« Reply #426 on: August 17, 2019, 08:59:47 PM »
Well at least we have 2017-2019 to compare.
Mercator salinity 0m with unihamburg amsr2-uhh overlay at 50%, jul1-aug15

I remove my animation when it reaches 61 downloads. I don't know why.
« Last Edit: Today at 12:54:40 AM by uniquorn »

gandul

  • NewMembers
  • New ice
  • Posts: 3
  • No hago nada
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 0
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Arctic Ocean salinity, temperature and waves
« Reply #427 on: Today at 03:15:20 PM »
Question from newbey:
What’s first, the egg or the chicken?
That was not the question
We know that ice in the Atlantic edge forces Atlantic currents such as W. spitsbergen to sink.
However atlantification prevents ice to form at Barents and further North in Winter, allowing for extreme edges to the North (2016 to 2018)

So what happened this year that the ice was not contained, drifted South in winter, and forced current to sink earlier so that the ice edge is very robust between Svalbard and FJL ? In other words, who put the 2019 egg without the 2018 chicken? Or how did the chicken survive?
Tod@s vamos a morir mejor tarde que temprano

NotaDenier

  • New ice
  • Posts: 30
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 28
  • Likes Given: 5
Re: Arctic Ocean salinity, temperature and waves
« Reply #428 on: Today at 03:35:13 PM »
German ship to drift near pole
From next month, Rex will head a major winter expedition. The Polarstern (Polar Star), a German research ship, will drift across the Central Arctic by tying itself to a large ice flow for months through the winter dark.
"We'll be north of the 80th parallel the entire time, and for much of it, we'll even be in the direct vicinity of the North Pole," Rex said.
Aside from Norway's 19th century explorer Fridtjof Nansen, few had conducted an ice-drift winter analysis so far north in the "epicenter of global warming," he added.
Norwegian researchers warned the Arctic Council in May that the North's chilled stratified waters — vital for unique fish life — were already "shifting" to resemble mixed Atlantic waters because of temperature rises.

https://www.awi.de/en/focus/mosaic-expedition/interview-with-markus-rex.html

Wow should be some good data from this expedition.

blumenkraft

  • Frazil ice
  • Posts: 253
  • Fans of Hans Club - circa 2018
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 118
  • Likes Given: 139
Re: Arctic Ocean salinity, temperature and waves
« Reply #429 on: Today at 04:04:08 PM »
I sure hope so, NotaDenier. Looking forward to it.

Until then we only have the buoys.

Here is 110 drifting towards the coast, getting warm and fresh.
“You are not entitled to your opinion. You are entitled to your informed opinion. No one is entitled to be ignorant.”

uniquorn

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1254
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 560
  • Likes Given: 106
Re: Arctic Ocean salinity, temperature and waves
« Reply #430 on: Today at 06:21:37 PM »
Here is 110 drifting towards the coast, getting warm and fresh.
drift track is up to date. Unfortunately, as noted upthread, the last profile (and microcat data) was aug6. https://www.whoi.edu/page.do?pid=163197

Last buoy status on 2019/8/18 64601 UTC : temperature = 1 °C, battery = 10.78 V
Last position on 2019/8/18 64601 UTC : 70.6566° N, 139.3028° W
Last profile (number 640) on 2019/8/6 602 UTC