Support the Arctic Sea Ice Forum and Blog

Author Topic: Arctic Ocean salinity, temperature and waves  (Read 13624 times)

RoxTheGeologist

  • ASIF Citizen
  • Posts: 313
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 39
  • Likes Given: 1
Re: Arctic Ocean salinity, temperature and waves
« Reply #50 on: October 19, 2018, 07:47:38 PM »
Open ocean cooling steadily. Salinity still increasing on Pacific and Atlantic sides.

Mercator 0m temperature and salinity, oct1-17.

Surface cooling causing mixing and exasperating lack of input of freshwater from melt and rivers?

uniquorn

  • ASIF Middle Class
  • Posts: 533
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 211
  • Likes Given: 35
Re: Arctic Ocean salinity, temperature and waves
« Reply #51 on: October 19, 2018, 10:39:21 PM »
yikes, will have to think about that one

johnm33

  • ASIF Upper Class
  • Posts: 1031
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 40
  • Likes Given: 8
Re: Arctic Ocean salinity, temperature and waves
« Reply #52 on: October 19, 2018, 10:59:45 PM »
Rox, I'm seeing that differently, the flash freeze by the 'blob' caused by currents from Amundsen bringing and mixing the freshwater from Mackenzie with bottom melt, waves bringing lightweight ice in windrows from the fraying ice edge, with arid -3C air passing over, a little evaporation...
The siberian river waters look like they're dropping into the deep caused by the suction of the Pacific waters leading the way, when they hit bottom they're mixing with Atl. waters which are here being forced north, the turbulence/vortices may be mixing or refining the various sources qualities/energies.
Plus the lows in Labrador have created an anomolous 'vacuum' in Baffin sucking an increased flow through Nares/Lancaster.

uniquorn

  • ASIF Middle Class
  • Posts: 533
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 211
  • Likes Given: 35
Re: Arctic Ocean salinity, temperature and waves
« Reply #53 on: October 20, 2018, 10:02:50 PM »
The explanation for the Beaufort flash freeze looks plausible. I'm not sure about fresh water being sucked down with Pacific water. Isn't surface mixing more likely?

The Bering Strait didn't have ice cover till mid Jan this year. It's possible that, with higher SST, it will be even later in 2019. Until then, warmer higher salinity water will likely be flowing into the Chukchi.

On the Atlantic side, a rather fragile ice front is approaching Severnay Zemlya. It is already reducing wave height and I had assumed that it would largely arrest the flow of higher salinity surface water into the Laptev, but looking a Mercator last year, it just carries on (at 0m)under the ice until the melting season starts. So it needs to be 'a bit' colder to freeze and may have less time to extrude the brine.

Anyway, enough of 0m. Here is an update of Mercator 318m salinity sep15-oct19

johnm33

  • ASIF Upper Class
  • Posts: 1031
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 40
  • Likes Given: 8
Re: Arctic Ocean salinity, temperature and waves
« Reply #54 on: October 21, 2018, 11:45:29 AM »
It[Siberian river water] does mix to the west of Wrangel but just to the east the shallow basin is occupied by Pac. waters, and further out the gyre, the Pac. water follows the contours down, none of the fresh water gets past unmixed and seems to accelerate towards the drop. http://bulletin.mercator-ocean.fr/en/permalink/PSY4/animation/3/20180909/20181020/2/1

Much of our attention is focussed on the ice through Fram and the flow through Nares, I'm thinking the greatest change may have been the amount of freshwater flow out of Lancaster sound. For the Atl. water to penetrate so far and for so long the same amount has to exit.

uniquorn

  • ASIF Middle Class
  • Posts: 533
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 211
  • Likes Given: 35
Re: Arctic Ocean salinity, temperature and waves
« Reply #55 on: October 21, 2018, 10:50:40 PM »
Looking at Mercator model 0m and 30m salinity, oct10-20 there is a narrow flow of fresher water heading south along the Russian coast and a pulse at 34m that makes it to the bering strait. Possibly the first time it has made it that far this year.
Agreed, a flow heading northwards from Wrangel Island is also visible that mixes with the incoming Bering water.
Possibly they make it to 300m, there is a rim of lower salinity around the drop.(see 300m upthread)

Where can I find that bathymetry map?
« Last Edit: October 21, 2018, 10:59:28 PM by uniquorn »

uniquorn

  • ASIF Middle Class
  • Posts: 533
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 211
  • Likes Given: 35
Re: Arctic Ocean salinity, temperature and waves
« Reply #56 on: October 21, 2018, 11:01:25 PM »
To my untrained eyes, it looks like they carry on north at 92m. But this is all a model ;)
edit:Lancaster Sound, good point, but how to quantify?
« Last Edit: October 21, 2018, 11:24:23 PM by uniquorn »

Niall Dollard

  • ASIF Citizen
  • Posts: 292
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 31
  • Likes Given: 7
Re: Arctic Ocean salinity, temperature and waves
« Reply #57 on: October 21, 2018, 11:30:25 PM »
Brigantine posted this link to a detailed bathymetry data viewer :

I'll just leave this bathymetry map here.

(Note in the right hand sidebar the arctic map option, and the top right options drop menu the regional bathymetric contours. Also turn multibeam bathymetric surveys off.)

El Cid

  • ASIF Citizen
  • Posts: 160
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 29
  • Likes Given: 22
Re: Arctic Ocean salinity, temperature and waves
« Reply #58 on: October 22, 2018, 08:54:01 AM »
Has anyone got a good chart that compares this years salinity profile to eg 5 or 10 yrs ago?

uniquorn

  • ASIF Middle Class
  • Posts: 533
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 211
  • Likes Given: 35
Re: Arctic Ocean salinity, temperature and waves
« Reply #59 on: October 22, 2018, 10:24:22 PM »
Not saying it's good but here is hycom sea surface salinity oct22, 2014 and 2018.
https://www7320.nrlssc.navy.mil/GLBhycomcice1-12/arctic.html

copernicus has SSS going back to 1991 in netcdf, free registration
http://marine.copernicus.eu/services-portfolio/access-to-products/

uniquorn

  • ASIF Middle Class
  • Posts: 533
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 211
  • Likes Given: 35
Re: Arctic Ocean salinity, temperature and waves
« Reply #60 on: October 22, 2018, 10:39:28 PM »
Bruce Steele will be pleased that all 6 buoys look like they are following the gyre current.
ITP 105, 107 and 110 all show higher salinity at times, in some agreement with the mercator model but, due to the gyre, they may all miss the highest salinity area.
Unfortunately, I don't think there are any buoys in the Chukchi to verify increasing salinity at 300m there (see above)

Today's ITP locations and profile contours.

El Cid

  • ASIF Citizen
  • Posts: 160
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 29
  • Likes Given: 22
Re: Arctic Ocean salinity, temperature and waves
« Reply #61 on: October 23, 2018, 07:36:44 AM »
Thank you uniquorn!

uniquorn

  • ASIF Middle Class
  • Posts: 533
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 211
  • Likes Given: 35
Re: Arctic Ocean salinity, temperature and waves
« Reply #62 on: October 23, 2018, 09:39:06 PM »
Copied this from AbruptSLR thread.  (edit - my brown and bold)

Meneghello G. , J. Marshall, M.-L. Timmermans and J. Scott (2018). Observations of seasonal upwelling and downwelling in the Beaufort Sea mediated by sea ice. J. Phys. Oceanogr., 48, 795–805. doi:10.1175/JPO-D-17-0188.1

https://journals.ametsoc.org/doi/10.1175/JPO-D-17-0188.1 paywalled :(

Abstract: "We present observational estimates of Ekman pumping in the Beaufort Gyre region. Averaged over the Canada Basin, the results show a 2003–14 average of 2.3 m yr−1 downward with strong seasonal and interannual variability superimposed: monthly and yearly means range from 30 m yr−1 downward to 10 m yr−1 upward. A clear, seasonal cycle is evident with intense downwelling in autumn and upwelling during the winter months, despite the wind forcing being downwelling favorable year-round. Wintertime upwelling is associated with friction between the large-scale Beaufort Gyre ocean circulation and the surface ice pack and contrasts with previous estimates of yearlong downwelling; as a consequence, the yearly cumulative Ekman pumping over the gyre is significantly reduced. The spatial distribution of Ekman pumping is also modified, with the Beaufort Gyre region showing alternating, moderate upwelling and downwelling, while a more intense, yearlong downwelling averaging 18 m yr−1 is identified in the northern Chukchi Sea region. Implications of the results for understanding Arctic Ocean dynamics and change are discussed."
« Last Edit: October 23, 2018, 10:02:10 PM by uniquorn »

Bruce Steele

  • ASIF Upper Class
  • Posts: 1217
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 15
  • Likes Given: 2
Re: Arctic Ocean salinity, temperature and waves
« Reply #63 on: October 23, 2018, 10:52:36 PM »
Uniquorn, I found a compendium of Beaufort gyre fresh water content on a data page for the BGOS buoys. It shows a buildup of surface fresh water between 2013 and 2017.  It will be another year until the 2018 data gets incorporated , I wonder if some of the 2017 surface fresh water exited via the Amundsen in 2018 and whether it will show up as a surface fresh water decrease in the data we get to see next fall.
 Also interesting to see the fresh water decrease from 2012 to 2013.

http://www.whoi.edu/page.do?pid=161756

Also nice discussion piece on Beaufort fresh water

http://www.whoi.edu/page.do?pid=66597
« Last Edit: October 23, 2018, 10:58:27 PM by Bruce Steele »

RoxTheGeologist

  • ASIF Citizen
  • Posts: 313
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 39
  • Likes Given: 1
Re: Arctic Ocean salinity, temperature and waves
« Reply #64 on: October 24, 2018, 02:32:47 PM »
....while a more intense, yearlong downwelling averaging 18 m yr−1 is identified in the northern Chukchi Sea region[/b]...."

Anybody with access care to enlighten us poor souls on the other side of the wall? Is this where dense salty water meets the continental slope of the Canadian Basin?


uniquorn

  • ASIF Middle Class
  • Posts: 533
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 211
  • Likes Given: 35
Re: Arctic Ocean salinity, temperature and waves
« Reply #65 on: October 24, 2018, 09:37:04 PM »
Thanks Bruce Steele. Gridded data, my next learning curve :)

Sleepy

  • ASIF Upper Class
  • Posts: 1142
  • Retired, again...
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 68
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Arctic Ocean salinity, temperature and waves
« Reply #66 on: October 25, 2018, 04:43:53 AM »
Attaching the early online release of Meneghello.
Omnia mirari, etiam tritissima.
-
Science is a jealous mistress and takes little account of a man's feelings.

uniquorn

  • ASIF Middle Class
  • Posts: 533
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 211
  • Likes Given: 35
Re: Arctic Ocean salinity, temperature and waves
« Reply #67 on: October 25, 2018, 02:50:39 PM »
upwelling images from the early online release of Meneghello

uniquorn

  • ASIF Middle Class
  • Posts: 533
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 211
  • Likes Given: 35
Re: Arctic Ocean salinity, temperature and waves
« Reply #68 on: October 27, 2018, 07:30:23 PM »
The halocline must struggle to survive along the atlantic ice front. Svalbard, FJL and SZ have, until recently, been a helpful line of defence, enabling coastal freezing and protecting land fast ice from storms, providing calmer waters that would encourage halocline development.

Looking at jaxa rgb, mar-oct, on the atlantic side:
Svalbard had largely wind driven ice on the southern side. Open water to the north all this year.
Franz Josef Land had wind driven ice and open water(varying sides) from mar16.
Severnaya Zemlya had open water on the eastern side from jun7.

I expect the halocline is disturbed to varying extents beneath mobile ice, depending on the distance from the ice front. Everything west of SZ will probably continue to be very disturbed. Thin salty ice may not be much help.
 

Shared Humanity

  • ASIF Governor
  • Posts: 3138
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 93
  • Likes Given: 14
Re: Arctic Ocean salinity, temperature and waves
« Reply #69 on: October 27, 2018, 08:53:54 PM »
nice animation.

uniquorn

  • ASIF Middle Class
  • Posts: 533
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 211
  • Likes Given: 35
Re: Arctic Ocean salinity, temperature and waves
« Reply #70 on: October 28, 2018, 07:14:58 PM »
Unable to get 3d mode on windy recently so here is a 2d version of ecmwf wave forecast, oct28-nov6.

uniquorn

  • ASIF Middle Class
  • Posts: 533
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 211
  • Likes Given: 35
Re: Arctic Ocean salinity, temperature and waves
« Reply #71 on: October 29, 2018, 11:29:39 PM »
Strong south easterlies sent most of the buoys (and the ice) back the way they came.
whoi itp103-110 locations and profile contours, oct29

note: the latest readings to the right of the profile contours often change after a few days, probably due to algorithm or human intervention. Raw data is available from www.whoi.edu/page.do?pid=163197
« Last Edit: October 29, 2018, 11:36:23 PM by uniquorn »

Bruce Steele

  • ASIF Upper Class
  • Posts: 1217
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 15
  • Likes Given: 2
Re: Arctic Ocean salinity, temperature and waves
« Reply #72 on: October 30, 2018, 12:22:50 AM »
Uniquorn, Three of the ITP buoys 107, 109 and 110 show a layer of > -.4 C Pacific Summer Water that is 50 meters thick. I have gone back though the completed missions looking for something similar but it looks pretty unusual .

As uniquorn pointed out , I missed the minus sign.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2018, 11:34:28 PM by Bruce Steele »

uniquorn

  • ASIF Middle Class
  • Posts: 533
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 211
  • Likes Given: 35
Re: Arctic Ocean salinity, temperature and waves
« Reply #73 on: October 30, 2018, 01:50:25 AM »
Yes. Possibly unusual. Some recent profiles have a similar layer but not so thick. Here are relevant Beaufort buoy locprofs from 80-108 (2015-18). Will take a look at older ones tomorrow.

uniquorn

  • ASIF Middle Class
  • Posts: 533
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 211
  • Likes Given: 35
Re: Arctic Ocean salinity, temperature and waves
« Reply #74 on: October 30, 2018, 10:29:32 PM »
Uniquorn, Three of the ITP buoys 107, 109 and 110 show a layer of > .4 C Pacific Summer Water that is 50 meters thick. I have gone back though the completed missions looking for something similar but it looks pretty unusual .
Looking at the grddata files, not so much of the orange band is >.4C, example of day300. It may still be significant though.
dbar~= depth in m


uniquorn

  • ASIF Middle Class
  • Posts: 533
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 211
  • Likes Given: 35
Re: Arctic Ocean salinity, temperature and waves
« Reply #76 on: November 01, 2018, 07:53:43 PM »
Uniquorn, Three of the ITP buoys 107, 109 and 110 show a layer of > .4 C Pacific Summer Water that is 50 meters thick. I have gone back though the completed missions looking for something similar but it looks pretty unusual .
Maybe the scale is too small to see the minus sign, it's -0.4
It's still a thick layer though. How does that form?
1. Long period of overturning during the summer? - Beaufort weather might have been too stormy for that.
2. Incoming warm higher saline flow from Bering?
3. Centripetal effect of the gyre? 107 and 110 look like they drifted out and back into the thicker layer. 109 is more central and stays in it.

edit:updated image again, temps not much use without salinity
« Last Edit: November 01, 2018, 08:12:33 PM by uniquorn »

Sterks

  • ASIF Citizen
  • Posts: 234
  • Member # 1000
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 9
  • Likes Given: 14
Re: Arctic Ocean salinity, temperature and waves
« Reply #77 on: November 01, 2018, 08:45:26 PM »
Uniquorn, Three of the ITP buoys 107, 109 and 110 show a layer of > .4 C Pacific Summer Water that is 50 meters thick. I have gone back though the completed missions looking for something similar but it looks pretty unusual .
Let me know if I am wrong. That excess of heat in the Pacific side, whether 30 m or 50 m thick, is locked there by stratification and doesn't reach the surface except in unprecedented events (GAC?).

uniquorn

  • ASIF Middle Class
  • Posts: 533
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 211
  • Likes Given: 35
Re: Arctic Ocean salinity, temperature and waves
« Reply #78 on: November 01, 2018, 10:16:42 PM »
Uniquorn, Three of the ITP buoys 107, 109 and 110 show a layer of > .4 C Pacific Summer Water that is 50 meters thick. I have gone back though the completed missions looking for something similar but it looks pretty unusual .
Let me know if I am wrong. That excess of heat in the Pacific side, whether 30 m or 50 m thick, is locked there by stratification and doesn't reach the surface except in unprecedented events (GAC?).
Not wrong.
The thread documents that, according to buoy data, the a warm layer near the gyre appears to be thicker than previous years. The mercator model shows some flow of warmer water from the bering/ chukchi at depth. Is there another model that shows more than 0m data?

edit: wanted to keep this post from AbruptSLR alive https://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php/topic,2391.msg170451.html#msg170451

with this quote:
The one consideration that you are ignoring is that per the research that I reference in Reply #5, the relatively freshwater layer immediately above the deeper warm layer of water, is unstable.  So it is not that the deeper and denser warm water will magically float up through less dense cooler water, but rather that the upper cooler/fresher lay may well some day flow laterally away (into the North Atlantic) which would then leave the warm water closer to the surface.

mercator model, temperature at 0m, 34m, 92m, oct31
edit: Mercator shows a lot more detail when not using the fixed scale(colorbar). Changed the animation to show salinity and temperature for nov2, 0m-300m
« Last Edit: November 03, 2018, 08:37:37 PM by uniquorn »

uniquorn

  • ASIF Middle Class
  • Posts: 533
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 211
  • Likes Given: 35
Re: Arctic Ocean salinity, temperature and waves
« Reply #79 on: November 06, 2018, 09:18:35 PM »
cross posting for easy access

There may be some evidence of persistent upwelling north of Svalbard. The uni-hamburg amsr2 animation below (oct1-nov5) has been heavily contrasted on the right hand side to bring out the lower concentration areas (edit:some of the transient blue is weather). The area with persistent low concentration, even as the ice moves across it, is marked on the left.

The polarview image (nov5) shows the rough location of the possible upwelling and what may be a recently melted area that is heading towards the Fram Strait.
This may not be a new feature, perhaps the ice is now thin enough to reveal it.

The mercator ocean animation shows salinity and temperature at 34m and 0m (the scale is cut off for better clarity). Basic internet research suggests there is an eddy from 0-30m depth, possibly caused by the interaction of the cold and warm currents in that area. Initial suggestion was upwelling, but it could downwelling, cooling, then going south. The model has the eddy closer to the Fram Strait. There may be more that don't show.
the last 0m frame and all temp34m dates were misplaced during the making of this animation, none of them were harmed. edit:A downloaded version is much clearer

The final animation uses amsr2-uhh again, with high contrast on the right, focusing on the area close to the eddy from mar21-nov5, looking for persistance. It appears to be visible from ice movement from the beginning of August. Before that is unclear.


« Last Edit: November 06, 2018, 09:27:09 PM by uniquorn »

johnm33

  • ASIF Upper Class
  • Posts: 1031
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 40
  • Likes Given: 8
Re: Arctic Ocean salinity, temperature and waves
« Reply #80 on: November 06, 2018, 09:30:59 PM »
Detail from


uniquorn

  • ASIF Middle Class
  • Posts: 533
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 211
  • Likes Given: 35
Re: Arctic Ocean salinity, temperature and waves
« Reply #81 on: November 06, 2018, 10:17:56 PM »
Niagara Falls in slow motion then.

johnm33

  • ASIF Upper Class
  • Posts: 1031
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 40
  • Likes Given: 8
Re: Arctic Ocean salinity, temperature and waves
« Reply #82 on: November 07, 2018, 12:53:39 AM »
My guess would be a deep current flowing towards Fram meeting the incoming current merging and being forced to climb the peninsular[?]. With 5-700m to penetrate it's hard to be sure where the disturbance originates. That it reaches the surface suggests that a vortice is resisting approaching the axis of rotation. Any sign of rotation?

Sleepy

  • ASIF Upper Class
  • Posts: 1142
  • Retired, again...
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 68
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Arctic Ocean salinity, temperature and waves
« Reply #83 on: November 07, 2018, 04:57:26 AM »
Thank you for diving into that. If I remember correctly, that feature has been noticed on this forum in previous years as well, at least in 2015 and 2016.
Omnia mirari, etiam tritissima.
-
Science is a jealous mistress and takes little account of a man's feelings.

uniquorn

  • ASIF Middle Class
  • Posts: 533
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 211
  • Likes Given: 35
Re: Arctic Ocean salinity, temperature and waves
« Reply #84 on: November 07, 2018, 02:41:32 PM »
So it is persistent or seasonal then (edit: or occasional). I haven't read everything that far back.(yet)

Always cloudy there in worldview bt15 recently and difficult to spot rotation on polarview.

Overnight, I was wondering if it was more of a subduction whirlpool (does that exist?) going down the valley, but looking at it again, that's too near to Svalbard.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2018, 05:18:28 PM by uniquorn »

uniquorn

  • ASIF Middle Class
  • Posts: 533
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 211
  • Likes Given: 35
Re: Arctic Ocean salinity, temperature and waves
« Reply #85 on: November 07, 2018, 06:50:30 PM »
I went back to 2013 searching for Svalbard upwelling on asif. There are many comments about the hotspot to the west and the atlantic current to the north. Also another possible eddy event closer to FJL. No confirmation of this possibly persistent low concentration area yet. Maybe I will trawl through all Sleepy's comments....lot's of good stuff though:

https://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php/topic,1377.msg68881.html#msg68881
https://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php/topic,1377.msg68886.html#msg68886
https://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php/topic,1504.msg74014.html#msg74014
https://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php/topic,1504.msg74444.html#msg74444

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/2016GL068323/full free :)
this extract may be relevant to the north of Svalbard under the present conditions:
Farther west along the recirculation pathway, however, salinity dominates the buoyancy, eventually forcing the westward flowing AW to subduct underneath the PW. While such vertical adjustment is difficult to obtain by the nearly nondivergent geostrophic flow, mesoscale eddies can efficiently mediate vertical temperature and buoyancy fluxes. The time‐mean depth‐integrated vertical eddy temperature flux in Figure 3d shows that eddy processes likely play an important role for this subduction of AW. Large upward eddy temperature fluxes along the WSC (red shading in Figure 3d), i.e., in the temperature‐stratified east, imply a release of available potential energy as would be expected from baroclinic instability. Along the frontal zone itself, the vertical eddy fluxes are near zero, but in a large region west of the Molloy Hole they are distinctively negative (blue shading). This salt‐stratified region is also associated with downward salt fluxes and therefore upward buoyancy fluxes (both not shown). So vertical eddy fluxes release available potential energy there too, and the subduction of AW underneath PW should be understood as a natural consequence of this ubiquitous tendency. Mesoscale dynamics, apparently, are therefore instrumental to both lateral and vertical advection of AW in the Fram Strait.


https://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php/topic,1344.msg59455.html#msg59455
extracts from A-Team that may be relevant:
Another area with a strong seasonal variation is within and to the north of Fram Strait. The Ekman transport in this region is typically westward. It becomes the strongest in the fall and winter just like in the Beaufort Sea. This westward Ekman flow is due to the strong southward ice transport directed toward the Nordic Seas and through Fram Strait. Upwelling and downwelling field are induced by the divergence and convergence of the Ekman transport.......
...There is a strong westward Ekman transport from Svalbard toward Greenland between October and April. This transport is forced mainly by the strong southward sea ice motion associated with the Arctic sea ice export to the Nordic Seas. Consequently, upwelling dominates the eastern Fram Strait while downwelling persists off the Greenland’s coast (Fig. 10). This contrast becomes the most striking in the winter months when the southward ice transport is the largest.

arcticsss_nowcast_anim30d-posted-20131009-by-Laurent:

johnm33

  • ASIF Upper Class
  • Posts: 1031
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 40
  • Likes Given: 8
Re: Arctic Ocean salinity, temperature and waves
« Reply #86 on: November 07, 2018, 07:40:21 PM »
https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/2016GL068323
animation from the link illustrates/models the eddies
« Last Edit: November 08, 2018, 12:55:45 AM by johnm33 »

uniquorn

  • ASIF Middle Class
  • Posts: 533
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 211
  • Likes Given: 35
Re: Arctic Ocean salinity, temperature and waves
« Reply #87 on: November 07, 2018, 09:32:33 PM »
Nice. I couldn't see the link till replying so reposting
https://tinyurl.com/y9r5kgnn

So possibly persistent since at least 2009. Two examples below.

johnm33

  • ASIF Upper Class
  • Posts: 1031
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 40
  • Likes Given: 8
Re: Arctic Ocean salinity, temperature and waves
« Reply #88 on: November 08, 2018, 01:18:50 AM »
Thanks for that
Dunno why it didn't show up seemed ok on preview, it did adjust my guess, now I'm thinking that either of the deep currents flowing north could have been forced to the surface the one circling north of the plateau more probable, forced by a general movement of arctic waters towards Fram.

Sleepy

  • ASIF Upper Class
  • Posts: 1142
  • Retired, again...
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 68
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Arctic Ocean salinity, temperature and waves
« Reply #89 on: November 08, 2018, 07:23:26 AM »
Wonderful, I also missed that AVI. Hope you don't mind me adding a smaller MP4 here.
Omnia mirari, etiam tritissima.
-
Science is a jealous mistress and takes little account of a man's feelings.

johnm33

  • ASIF Upper Class
  • Posts: 1031
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 40
  • Likes Given: 8
Re: Arctic Ocean salinity, temperature and waves
« Reply #90 on: November 08, 2018, 10:44:18 AM »
Looking at 68^ there's chaos in the gyre around June/July, due to the arrangement of highs/lows In Bering and near Banks Is.?

uniquorn

  • ASIF Middle Class
  • Posts: 533
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 211
  • Likes Given: 35
Re: Arctic Ocean salinity, temperature and waves
« Reply #91 on: November 08, 2018, 10:33:57 PM »
That reminds me, haven't posted buoy data for a while. Not much movement at the moment.

Also today's wave forecast from windy, nov8-16

@Sleepy, you are very welcome

uniquorn

  • ASIF Middle Class
  • Posts: 533
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 211
  • Likes Given: 35
Re: Arctic Ocean salinity, temperature and waves
« Reply #92 on: November 10, 2018, 02:55:52 PM »
Looking at 68^ there's chaos in the gyre around June/July, due to the arrangement of highs/lows In Bering and near Banks Is.?
Quite a push from the Amundson to the Mclure recently
Ascat, oct18-nov9, raw and enhanced.

uniquorn

  • ASIF Middle Class
  • Posts: 533
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 211
  • Likes Given: 35
Re: Arctic Ocean salinity, temperature and waves
« Reply #93 on: November 13, 2018, 12:02:31 PM »
Some clearer weather above the north of Svalbard possible upwelling area today, centre of image.
Worldview, brightness temperature, band15, night, nov13. Two different palettes.
The South of Svalbard shows up clearly to the lower right.

https://tinyurl.com/yajufp5j
The link also shows the more visible hotspot close to the Greenland coast on the 80N line.
Worldview, Greenland sea 80N, brightness temperature, band15, night, nov12-13.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2018, 12:16:25 PM by uniquorn »

johnm33

  • ASIF Upper Class
  • Posts: 1031
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 40
  • Likes Given: 8
Re: Arctic Ocean salinity, temperature and waves
« Reply #94 on: November 13, 2018, 02:31:22 PM »
Beaufort 92^ there was a build up of pressure over the CAA of about 30hpa so some pressure forcing water back to Beaufort, but the rest is so chaotic it's hard to call.
The hot spot by 80N captures vortices on the animation just above at 89^[added]
« Last Edit: November 14, 2018, 12:16:42 AM by johnm33 »

uniquorn

  • ASIF Middle Class
  • Posts: 533
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 211
  • Likes Given: 35
Re: Arctic Ocean salinity, temperature and waves
« Reply #95 on: November 13, 2018, 07:43:11 PM »
From the ice movement it looks like clockwise Gyre continues, but the buoys aren't playing ball.
whoi-itp103-110 locations, up to nov13.

Greenland 80N hotspot, going back to oct27 on clear days. Rotation is probably accentuated by current flowing round Greenland. Looks like a distant black hole in red ;)

oren

  • ASIF Governor
  • Posts: 2969
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 318
  • Likes Given: 590
Re: Arctic Ocean salinity, temperature and waves
« Reply #96 on: November 14, 2018, 03:34:13 AM »
Greenland 80N hotspot, going back to oct27 on clear days. Rotation is probably accentuated by current flowing round Greenland. Looks like a distant black hole in red ;)
Maybe it's a smudge on the satellite's windshield?  ???

uniquorn

  • ASIF Middle Class
  • Posts: 533
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 211
  • Likes Given: 35
Re: Arctic Ocean salinity, temperature and waves
« Reply #97 on: November 15, 2018, 06:58:08 PM »
Fram strait, amsr2-uhh and mercator 0m salinity, aug24-nov14.
edit: added amsr2 overlaid onto mercator 0m salinity oct1-nov16
« Last Edit: November 19, 2018, 12:01:06 PM by uniquorn »

uniquorn

  • ASIF Middle Class
  • Posts: 533
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 211
  • Likes Given: 35
Re: Arctic Ocean salinity, temperature and waves
« Reply #98 on: November 19, 2018, 12:02:31 PM »
update on mercator 300m salinity sep1-nov18(the reason this thread started...)

uniquorn

  • ASIF Middle Class
  • Posts: 533
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 211
  • Likes Given: 35
Re: Arctic Ocean salinity, temperature and waves
« Reply #99 on: November 22, 2018, 06:33:27 PM »
whoi itp buoys 103-105 are heading east. 107 and 109 are heading west, back towards the gyre. 110 not moving much at the moment.

Today's data from itp109 from 50-100m: (dbar ~ depth)
year    day            dbar   temp(C)  salinity
2018  326.03184   50   -0.3486   30.1677
2018  326.03176   52   -0.2867   30.3608
2018  326.03168   54   -0.1823   30.5148
2018  326.03159   56   -0.1005   30.6669
2018  326.03149   58    0.0696   30.8080
2018  326.03140   60    0.1213   30.9207
2018  326.03132   62    0.1329   31.0197
2018  326.03124   64    0.1086   31.1059
2018  326.03115   66    0.0893   31.1797
2018  326.03105   68    0.0834   31.2508
2018  326.03097   70    0.0754   31.3069
2018  326.03089   72    0.0934   31.3560
2018  326.03080   74    0.1537   31.4148
2018  326.03071   76    0.1713   31.4658
2018  326.03061   78    0.1469   31.5056
2018  326.03053   80    0.2107   31.5394
2018  326.03045   82    0.2617   31.5815
2018  326.03036   84    0.2818   31.6089
2018  326.03027   86    0.2721   31.6315
2018  326.03019   88    0.2270   31.6617
2018  326.03010   90    0.1654   31.6746
2018  326.03001   92    0.1934   31.7077
2018  326.02992   94    0.1781   31.7437
2018  326.02983   96    0.0371   31.7894
2018  326.02975   98    0.0242   31.8080
2018  326.02966  100    0.0679   31.8371