Support the Arctic Sea Ice Forum and Blog

Author Topic: Arctic Ocean salinity, temperature and waves  (Read 65167 times)

uniquorn

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1696
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 826
  • Likes Given: 169
Re: Arctic Ocean salinity, temperature and waves
« Reply #500 on: December 10, 2019, 08:01:33 PM »
uni-hamburg amsr2-uhh overlaid onto mercator salinity 34m at 60% transparent. amsr2 0% concentration, normally dark blue, has been set to fully transparent. sep21-Dec9, Large.
Posting temporarily - removed
« Last Edit: December 12, 2019, 04:43:05 PM by uniquorn »

uniquorn

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1696
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 826
  • Likes Given: 169
Re: Arctic Ocean salinity, temperature and waves
« Reply #501 on: December 10, 2019, 09:14:32 PM »
same as above over gmrt bathymetry. Transparency percentages optimised for looking at the pacific side. Nansen basin gets a bit lost under all that salinity.
Experimental, posting temporarily - removed
« Last Edit: December 12, 2019, 04:43:24 PM by uniquorn »

uniquorn

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1696
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 826
  • Likes Given: 169
Re: Arctic Ocean salinity, temperature and waves
« Reply #502 on: December 16, 2019, 08:10:47 PM »
whoi adjusted the map to cover the westward drift for itp116. Interesting that the warmer water at >200m doesn't appear to get past the Lomonosov Ridge.
Datawise, I'd prefer a drift around the N Greenland coast to the the almost inevitable destruction of the profiler down the Nares. We'll see...

uniquorn

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1696
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 826
  • Likes Given: 169
Re: Arctic Ocean salinity, temperature and waves
« Reply #503 on: December 30, 2019, 10:11:38 PM »
whoi itp's in the beaufort.....

uniquorn

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1696
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 826
  • Likes Given: 169
Re: Arctic Ocean salinity, temperature and waves
« Reply #504 on: January 02, 2020, 11:48:41 AM »
comparison of 2014-2019, sep19-jan1 using uni-hamburg amsr2-uhh. removed
« Last Edit: January 03, 2020, 10:33:17 PM by uniquorn »

Niall Dollard

  • Grease ice
  • Posts: 524
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 131
  • Likes Given: 31
Re: Arctic Ocean salinity, temperature and waves
« Reply #505 on: January 02, 2020, 12:12:59 PM »
Thanks Uniquorn.

1st Jan comparisons show the big variability on the Pacific front, but there probably has been less comment, in general on social media, on the variability of the Atlantic front.

Svalbard clearly stands out as an ice free island on 01/01/16 and 01/01/17. Then a slow build up after that to present day when it is similar to 01/01/15.

uniquorn

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1696
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 826
  • Likes Given: 169
Re: Arctic Ocean salinity, temperature and waves
« Reply #506 on: January 06, 2020, 11:06:01 PM »
Chukchi plateau drift, unfortunately itp112 profiler isn't moving on the cable. https://www.whoi.edu/page.do?pid=165216

uniquorn

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1696
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 826
  • Likes Given: 169
Re: Arctic Ocean salinity, temperature and waves
« Reply #507 on: January 06, 2020, 11:19:15 PM »
whoi itp buoys in the Beaufort, location and profile.

uniquorn

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1696
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 826
  • Likes Given: 169
Re: Arctic Ocean salinity, temperature and waves
« Reply #508 on: January 07, 2020, 06:12:47 PM »
ascat overlaid with unihamburg amsr2-uhh at 80% transparent.
amsr2 100% concentration, normally white, has been set to fully transparent to allow ascat features to show through. Missing or poor quality ascat days have been duplicated with the nearest day causing stutter.
sep21-jan6 - posting temporarily - removed
ffmpeg -crf31 to reduce filesize
« Last Edit: January 08, 2020, 09:55:04 PM by uniquorn »

uniquorn

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1696
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 826
  • Likes Given: 169
Re: Arctic Ocean salinity, temperature and waves
« Reply #509 on: January 07, 2020, 09:01:57 PM »
compressive strength zero to max
https://www7320.nrlssc.navy.mil/GLBhycomcice1-12/navo/beaufortstrength_nowcast_anim30d.gif

the rebound hadn't occurred to me before
« Last Edit: January 08, 2020, 01:16:43 AM by uniquorn »

uniquorn

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1696
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 826
  • Likes Given: 169
Re: Arctic Ocean salinity, temperature and waves
« Reply #510 on: January 17, 2020, 02:53:10 PM »
https://go.nasa.gov/3am5TAP Atlantic side, jan7-17, rotated, north down.
Large, so posting temporarily. Replaced with a smaller gif
 
« Last Edit: January 19, 2020, 09:46:51 AM by uniquorn »

johnm33

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1308
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 102
  • Likes Given: 48
Re: Arctic Ocean salinity, temperature and waves
« Reply #511 on: January 17, 2020, 05:30:21 PM »
Link Taken together the cloud streets and the break aligned with the islands suggest internal waves propagated in the basins are forcing orthogonal waves south and these are disturbing the ice as they wash up the contours.
Rebound, again suggests huge amount of activity at depth, at least some of which must be A.W forced into the basin by tides judging by Hycoms salinity gif.

uniquorn

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1696
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 826
  • Likes Given: 169
Re: Arctic Ocean salinity, temperature and waves
« Reply #512 on: January 18, 2020, 06:37:47 PM »
An introduction to internal waves is quite easy reading for a few pages.
Quote
Internal waves were discovered more than a century ago. One of the first observations is due to Helland-Hansen & Nansen [41]. They found that temperature profiles may change substantially within the course of just hours (Figure1.3); they ascribed this to the presence of "puzzling waves", an example of which is shown in Figure 1.4. They stressed the importance of this newly discovered phenomenon:
"The knowledge of the exact nature and causes of these "waves" and their movements would, in our opinion, be of signal importance to Oceanography, and as far as we can see, it is one of its greatest problems that most urgently calls for a solution" [p. 88]
1The horizontal currents associated with these waves extend to the surface;

Ice melt over the Yermak Plateau, north of Svalbard, shown in more detail below, is more likely related to the warm west spitzbergen current. This continues to FJL but at depth, so would require a mechanism to mix with colder surface water. ctr
« Last Edit: January 18, 2020, 06:48:01 PM by uniquorn »

johnm33

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1308
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 102
  • Likes Given: 48
Re: Arctic Ocean salinity, temperature and waves
« Reply #513 on: January 18, 2020, 10:24:27 PM »
"so would require a mechanism to mix with colder surface water" yes what I'm suggesting is that internal waves possibly generated by A.W. entering the basin as tidal surges, are travelling to Laptev and back towards Greenland are in turn generating orthogonal waves which are dashed against the bathymetry at depth, both north of Svalbard and at inconsistences in the gradients of the troughs and where the troughs terminate beneath Barentz. It's clearer in your 'season' thread animation though without the cloud streets suggesting extreme 'spin' I'd probably think simple wind action the likeliest explanation.

uniquorn

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1696
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 826
  • Likes Given: 169
Re: Arctic Ocean salinity, temperature and waves
« Reply #514 on: January 18, 2020, 11:10:39 PM »
<what I'm suggesting>  agreed. Internal waves acting on the nansen slope could be a mixing method. Maybe a couple of mosaic buoys will drift that way and give us some data.
T68 is the nearest thermistor buoy.
I think SST's (or near surface) north of Svalbard are warmer and may not need much mixing from depth. Reposting this argo float ani from here last year where there are also charts. Obviously it was earlier in the season. Will have a look at mercator tomorrow.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2020, 12:10:45 AM by uniquorn »

binntho

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1125
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 294
  • Likes Given: 78
Re: Arctic Ocean salinity, temperature and waves
« Reply #515 on: January 19, 2020, 05:03:23 AM »
internal waves possibly generated by A.W. entering the basin as tidal surges,

Illogical nonsense. The waves are generated by AW (atlantic waters?) how? Or in other words, what  mechanism do the atlantic waters use to generate these waves?

As for tidal surges, have you or anybody else for that matter ever seen a tidal surge in an open ocean? No, they do not exist. A tidal surge is a coastal phenomenon only.
because a thing is eloquently expressed it should not be taken to be as necessarily true
St. Augustine, Confessions V, 6

uniquorn

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1696
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 826
  • Likes Given: 169
Re: Arctic Ocean salinity, temperature and waves
« Reply #516 on: January 19, 2020, 10:14:15 AM »
Tidal movement in the Barents, jul2019. From the rammb thread
Checking nullschool shows fairly steady easterly winds at the time.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2020, 09:23:28 AM by uniquorn »

blumenkraft

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 2036
  • Fans of Hans Club - circa 2018
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 863
  • Likes Given: 1191
Re: Arctic Ocean salinity, temperature and waves
« Reply #517 on: January 19, 2020, 10:41:43 AM »
Uniquorn, forget about it. I had this discussion with Binntho before. He is very convinced that waves can't cause lateral movement - at all.
The apocalypse is already here; it's just not very evenly distributed.

morganism

  • Frazil ice
  • Posts: 179
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 16
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Arctic Ocean salinity, temperature and waves
« Reply #518 on: January 19, 2020, 11:15:54 AM »
 Ice disc forms in river, not Arctic , but still...

Didn't see this last year.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/jan/19/maines-giant-spinning-ice-disc-looks-like-its-reforming


uniquorn

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1696
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 826
  • Likes Given: 169
Re: Arctic Ocean salinity, temperature and waves
« Reply #519 on: January 20, 2020, 11:51:28 PM »
whoi itp116 profiler data stopped on jan12 :(
https://www.whoi.edu/page.do?pid=164836

blumenkraft

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 2036
  • Fans of Hans Club - circa 2018
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 863
  • Likes Given: 1191
Re: Arctic Ocean salinity, temperature and waves
« Reply #520 on: Today at 08:35:33 AM »
:(

Edit: States "Last buoy status on 2020/1/21 10402 UTC" now.
« Last Edit: Today at 10:41:27 AM by blumenkraft »
The apocalypse is already here; it's just not very evenly distributed.