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ivica

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Missing Big Picture
« on: April 21, 2013, 10:35:09 AM »
Taken from "AGW in general » Consequences » When and how bad?":
...Maybe this thread is only about worst case projections for humans but to ignore worst case for so many other lifeforms is shortsighted at best or simply suicidal.

So, what guide us in our thinking?

Basic definitions, used further in text:
We = Human race.
Biota = We and other lifeforms.
Earth+ = the planet and its Biota.      

Do We have any Big Plan or are We just wobbling around?

1. What/Who We are ?
The best what I have as explanation for myself I call Enfant Model,
roughly, We are bunch of kids prone to foolish and dangerous things.
Mentored by Nature which teach us By Example.

2. Where are we (the planet & Biota) now ?
Current state of Earth+.

3. Where is Earth+ heading ?

4. What We want/can to do ?
Save Humans, Civilization, other lifeforms... a part or all of that, what?

Enfants doing that, a paradox?

What about Polls for it?

If you have desire/time to open a topics for 1..4 please do that.

Gone hunting a beer.

Bruce Steele

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Re: Missing Big Picture
« Reply #1 on: April 22, 2013, 08:48:24 AM »
Ivica, quite the challenge. Since I live half a world away I  have had the day to think about this while doing my farm chores. Today at least # 2  and # 3 weren't on my mind so much but # 1 ,who are we ?,I would like to change to ,who are we + biota?  That , for me anyhow ,is where nature informs. Morphology would point to our similarity with a number of other unlikely lifeforms , now and far into the past. The bones in our hand look a lot like the bones in a porpoise flipper or an ancient whale. A bunch of primates hands ...we are not really a one off. We are a morphed one off.Our emotions, in my opinion , aren't even something unique . The pigs really seem to know joy, even fun or humor seem less than strictly a we thing. It would be better I think if we embraced our commonality rather than our uniqueness. Found inspiration in the knowledge and maybe a little sadness too. It would help us all I think to show some loyalty ,and a little affection. That would make # 4 ,what can we+ biota do ,a little easier. Loyalty knows sacrifice, affection knows sacrifice. Giving some things up would be a good place to start, for them+we.         

ivica

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Re: Missing Big Picture
« Reply #2 on: September 02, 2013, 07:17:16 PM »
This documentary "The Selfish Ape: The Tribe of Suit " adds something to #1.

"The human being is the self-proclaimed king of the Creation. Our extraordinary cultural and technological evolution has led us to dominate the planet and all its creatures. But something is going wrong..."


ivica

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Re: Missing Big Picture
« Reply #3 on: September 03, 2013, 12:55:14 AM »
At 50:02 of video above:
Quote
The tribe of Suit has inverted the natural order of things,
changing natural selection which prize the most prepared
for social selection which gives power to the worst.
We are out of the control as a species.

ivica

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Re: Missing Big Picture
« Reply #4 on: September 22, 2013, 12:06:18 PM »
The trend of Nature (Universe, if you prefer) is progressive, to create/build entities of higher complexity using entities of lower complexity, that can be written this way:
   ...->atoms->molecules->life

Society enters the trend which could destroy a lot of life on this planet, that can be written this way:
   atoms<-molecules<-life
if we account obsession with nuclear fission:
   ...<-atoms<-molecules<-life

What is the profile of those responsible for the trend opposite to natural one? 
I'm not with them, I'm different, Bulleh! to me, I'm not known.
I am meta-human, and I see no compromise with regressive trend.

They deny reality. They do not see problems. What we can expect from them?
Even if they do their best, that is not good enough. They are not up-to-the-challenge we are facing.

ivica

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Re: Missing Big Picture
« Reply #5 on: October 02, 2013, 02:46:15 PM »
How many enfant mindsets behind 'the wheels' of our society?
Some of them seem not only regressive but also aggressive.

We like our kids, they are so cute. They are so self-confident and think they can do *anything*. Some will even lie - just to get what they want, and that is - all they see. We give them so much but not 'the wheel'. We keep them with us. On the backseat, fastened. Adults drive.

EDIT: 2015-05-01: If they (the mindset that rules over us) are any good, why are we in trouble?
« Last Edit: May 02, 2015, 12:03:58 AM by ivica »

ivica

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Re: Missing Big Picture
« Reply #6 on: September 29, 2017, 12:08:36 AM »
How many enfant mindsets behind 'the wheels' of our society?
Some of them seem not only regressive but also aggressive.

We like our kids, they are so cute. They are so self-confident and think they can do *anything*. Some will even lie - just to get what they want, and that is - all they see. We give them so much but not 'the wheel'. We keep them with us. On the backseat, fastened. Adults drive.

EDIT: 2015-05-01: If they (the mindset that rules over us) are any good, why are we in trouble?

still working on it, having own kids - and all problems related to it - lizard brains inside of us

ivica

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Re: Missing Big Picture
« Reply #7 on: October 02, 2017, 05:54:15 AM »
Some food for thoughts: https://www.sott.net/article/363278-How-Globalism-Works-Like-the-Mafia
150 mega-corps. whats on top of that, how many "families"?
whats the definition of Fascism?
...
(maybe a thread for Globalism?)

budmantis

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Re: Missing Big Picture
« Reply #8 on: October 02, 2017, 07:05:50 AM »
This is definitely "deep thought" area and I'm not certain I can relate on such a deep level, so bear with me. Ivica, your mention of human beings as children (enfants) reminds me of Star Trek TNG where in the first episode an omnipotent entity known as "Q" refers to humans as a "dangerous, savage child race". I always thought that was an apt description for humanity. For most of my adult life, I had hoped that we could advance beyond our adolescence, but alas as I get closer to my seventieth birthday, it seems we have learned very little despite our technological advances.

On the one hand, some marvel at the advances we've made, but in reality, we are pretty much "ape" like after all these millennia. This means that we've become more dangerous to the planet and other life forms. Can we as a species mature in time to correct what we did wrong? I'd like to think we can, but in reality it seems we are the agent of our own extinction as well as a great deal of other species.

BudM


ivica

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Re: Missing Big Picture
« Reply #9 on: October 02, 2017, 08:04:14 AM »
Bud,
(my opinion) The System do not want "mature species", they are lousy consumers, hard to manipulate,...
"The system is the problem" is mentioned by a few members in a few threads of this Forum.
I think we should have a thread dedicated to it.

TerryM

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Re: Missing Big Picture
« Reply #10 on: October 02, 2017, 06:03:18 PM »
Bud,
(my opinion) The System do not want "mature species", they are lousy consumers, hard to manipulate,...
"The system is the problem" is mentioned by a few members in a few threads of this Forum.
I think we should have a thread dedicated to it.
Can I ask which system you're seeing as "the problem".
I still see more than one system at play, although the options are certainly being curtailed. The end of history was prematurely heralded IMHO, and "the system" may yet fail to mature just as is has already failed on so many other levels.
Terry

ivica

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Re: Missing Big Picture
« Reply #11 on: October 02, 2017, 06:15:32 PM »
Bud,
(my opinion) The System do not want "mature species", they are lousy consumers, hard to manipulate,...
"The system is the problem" is mentioned by a few members in a few threads of this Forum.
I think we should have a thread dedicated to it.
Can I ask which system you're seeing as "the problem".
I still see more than one system at play, although the options are certainly being curtailed. The end of history was prematurely heralded IMHO, and "the system" may yet fail to mature just as is has already failed on so many other levels.
Terry
The system which rules over us, part of it being mentioned above.

TerryM

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Re: Missing Big Picture
« Reply #12 on: October 02, 2017, 07:23:04 PM »
Ivica
Thanks for the very quick reply.
If globalization is the problem, nationalism is hopefully not the correct antidote.


Since childhood I was aware that the rapid spread of American Globalism was only a good thing if America was the repository for all of the good ideas. Choosing a single dogma, and following that dogma everywhere in all circumstances is only good when that dogma has the correct answers to all of our problems.


The situation as I see it is that no one society has proven to have pulled so far ahead of the pack that it's precepts should always, or even in most instances, be followed.
I spoke some decades to a youngish man who had been in the Soviet Military, the Russian Military under Yeltsin, and was at that time living a rather destitute existence in one of the California beach towns. I asked which system was better. The Soviet system, Yeltsin's Russia, or California's democracy.
He took a while before answering that the Soviet system was best if you were poor, Yeltsin's system was best if you were very rich, and California was a bitch without money. He followed by saying that most people were poor, so he'd opt for the Soviet system.


If we accept that each system has advantages for some people, then we have to accept that no one system is ideal. The answer is to have multiple systems that allow people to freely move between systems, or to give the people the power to change the system they're presently living under.
Khrushchev said that the cold war would be won by the side that most perfectly met the needs and wants of her people. I think he missed the power of propaganda.


John33, on the Ukraine thread posted a study showing how much the Soviet citizens wanted to retain their system. This option was not allowed them and it's possible to blame much of their subsequent unrest on this unjustice.


Most of the world is under the thrall of globalism, but there are still some options left - I think.
Terry

ivica

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Re: Missing Big Picture
« Reply #13 on: October 07, 2017, 04:45:11 PM »
...
Most of the world is under the thrall of globalism, but there are still some options left - I think.
Terry
That is why I'd like to see dedicated thread for Globalism (and The System), subjects utterly important in my view. Quote from prev linked article:
Quote
However, the biggest question of all is this: what will we focus on - these pressing challenges or the trivial daily distractions manufactured for us by the globalists?
Replacing the last word "globalists" with "manipulists" makes the quote above stronger. (in my humble opinion) :)