Support the Arctic Sea Ice Forum and Blog

Author Topic: Extinction Rebellion  (Read 40141 times)

TerryM

  • First-year ice
  • Posts: 5438
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 542
  • Likes Given: 5
Re: Extinction Rebellion
« Reply #300 on: August 12, 2019, 08:37:27 AM »
^^
That's a positive development.
Children may not be the answer, but they can and will heckle the hell out of every adult within earshot when they believe they're on the side of the angels.
Terry

vox_mundi

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1761
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 748
  • Likes Given: 117
Re: Extinction Rebellion
« Reply #301 on: August 12, 2019, 04:50:31 PM »
Channeling Hari Seldon ...

Want to Predict If Your Non-Violent Movement Will Succeed? Ask Isaac Newton
https://phys.org/news/2019-08-non-violent-movement-isaac-newton.html



When Isaac Newton first attempted to describe momentum in his 1687 work Principia, he hit upon an eloquent formula—an object's momentum is its mass times its velocity. Or P=MV.

Now, scientists from Brunel University London and Harvard University have demonstrated how the same formula can be used to help predict whether a non-violent political movement will be successful.

"As we've seen recently in Sudan and Algeria, you only need to mobilise a small number of people to effect sweeping political change," said Dr. Margherita Belgioioso, a lecturer in international relations and international security at Brunel.

"In both those instances, about one million people—only about 2.5% of the population—were mobilised for non-violent protests, and yet both were effective in driving leadership change. When you start looking into how these movements succeeded, you see that the important thing wasn't just how many people were mobilised, but how often. They may have been small in number, but they gathered often—they generated momentum.

"Of course, amassing 2.5% of the population isn't easy—that'd be 1.65 million people in the UK, or just over 8 million people in the U.S.."

Using SCAD—the Social Conflict in Africa Database—the researchers trawled through instances of protests, riots, strikes, and other forms of unrest in 47 African nations between 1990 and 2014 to determine what factors were key in driving 'irregular leadership exit.'

They determined that whilst getting large numbers of people of your side is important, it's a political movement's 'momentum' that determines its success.

"Newton's theory of momentum serves as a really useful metaphor—if we consider the number of people mobilised as the 'mass', and the frequency at which they gather as the 'velocity', we can start to quantify how much 'momentum' a given movement has," said Dr. Belgioioso, who published the research alongside her colleague Dr. Erica Chenoweth of Harvard University.

"By doing this, we've demonstrated a clear positive correlation between a movement's momentum and its probability of successfully overthrowing a country's leadership."

Having plotted historical non-violent movements on a chart, the researchers say that if you can attract 20% of the national population to 60 events help over the course a week, the probability of 'irregular leadership exit' theoretically reaches 100%.

Meanwhile, if you can mobilise 10% of the population, just 81 events per week will result in leadership change, whilst at 5% of the population, 121 events per week are required.


Interestingly, if you are only able to arrange 20 events per week, an increase in mass—the number of people involved—no longer has any effect on momentum.

Erica Chenoweth et al. The physics of dissent and the effects of movement momentum, Nature Human Behaviour (2019)

-----------------------------

Remember, this can work both ways - the Nuremberg Rallies (1933-38) - or Trump rallies

“There are three classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see.” ― Leonardo da Vinci

Insensible before the wave so soon released by callous fate. Affected most, they understand the least, and understanding, when it comes, invariably arrives too late

TerryM

  • First-year ice
  • Posts: 5438
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 542
  • Likes Given: 5
Re: Extinction Rebellion
« Reply #302 on: August 12, 2019, 07:35:55 PM »
I wonder where the ouster of Pres. Johnson would fall on that chart.


Hey Hey LBJ
How many kids have you burned today.
Was chanted in many venues over an extended period.


The problem was that it left a vacuum for Slick Dick to slide into.
Of course his presidency was also cut short.


After Kennedy it took a long time for the system to come back to some semblance of normalcy.
Terry

Tom_Mazanec

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1739
    • View Profile
    • Planet Mazanec
  • Liked: 396
  • Likes Given: 70
Re: Extinction Rebellion
« Reply #303 on: August 13, 2019, 12:24:52 AM »
I wonder where the ouster of Pres. Johnson would fall on that chart.


Hey Hey LBJ
How many kids have you burned today.
Was chanted in many venues over an extended period.


The problem was that it left a vacuum for Slick Dick to slide into.
Of course his presidency was also cut short.


After Kennedy it took a long time for the system to come back to some semblance of normalcy.
Terry

This is normalcy?
SHARKS (CROSSED OUT) MONGEESE (SIC) WITH FRICKIN LASER BEAMS ATTACHED TO THEIR HEADS

Tom_Mazanec

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1739
    • View Profile
    • Planet Mazanec
  • Liked: 396
  • Likes Given: 70
Re: Extinction Rebellion
« Reply #304 on: August 14, 2019, 03:38:02 AM »
XR paints Brazilian Embassy red:
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-climatechange-protests/london-climate-change-protesters-daub-brazilian-embassy-blood-red-idUSKCN1V30LC
Extinction Rebellion said the protest in London was timed to coincide with a march by indigenous women in Brasilia on Tuesday, and that similar actions were taking place at Brazilian embassies in Chile, Portugal, France, Switzerland and Spain.
SHARKS (CROSSED OUT) MONGEESE (SIC) WITH FRICKIN LASER BEAMS ATTACHED TO THEIR HEADS

vox_mundi

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1761
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 748
  • Likes Given: 117
Re: Extinction Rebellion
« Reply #305 on: August 14, 2019, 05:11:49 PM »
Why Your Brain Can’t Process Climate Change
https://time.com/5651393/why-your-brain-cant-process-climate-change/

... When you think about yourself while inside the narrow metal tube of a functional magnetic resonance imaging (fMRI) machine, a certain part of your brain, called the medial prefrontal cortex, or MPFC, will light up like Times Square on New Year’s Eve. If you think about a family member, the MPFC will still light up, though less robustly. And if you think about other people whom you feel no connection to—like, say, the inhabitants of the South Asian island nation of the Maldives, which will likely one day be erased by climate-change-driven sea level rise—the MPFC will light up even less.

You don’t need a $3 million MRI machine to know that human beings are self-centered creatures. But as Jane McGonigal, the research director of the Institute for the Future, noted in a 2017 article for Slate, if you think about your own self, but in the future, you’ll see less activation in the MPFC than when you imagine your present self. The further out in time you imagine that self, the weaker that activation. As McGonigal writes: “Your brain acts as if your future self is someone you don’t know very well and, frankly, someone you don’t care about.” And if we view our own selves in the future as virtual strangers, how much less do we care about the lives of generations yet to be born?

Economists have a figure for this: the “social discount rate,” which quantifies how much value declines as we look into the future. The higher the discount rate, the less we value the future economically. The climate-change denying Trump administration, for instance, uses an annual discount rate of 7 percent for its analysis of the social cost of CO2 emissions—how much economic damage each ton of carbon dioxide is estimated to cause—which is significantly higher than what was employed by the Obama administration.

Discounting makes sense over relatively short time horizons, like when a business is deciding whether or not to take out a loan. But when we begin to look into the further future—future on the scale of climate change, many decades and even centuries from now—discounting can spit back results that seem confounding. The Oxford philosopher Derek Parfit wrote that “at a discount rate of five percent, one death next year counts for more than a billion deaths in 500 years.” To put that in monetary terms, with a 5 percent discount rate, it would only be worth spending about $2,200 today in order to prevent $87 trillion in damages—the size of the total world economy now—in 500 years. Make it 700 years and it would only be worth spending 13 cents today. That’s how much we discount the far future, and it’s one reason why we’ve been so reluctant to take serious action on climate change.

The problem is that, as the Yale futurist and sociologist Wendell Bell has written, “a present sacrifice for the welfare of the future appears to be a one-way street.” We experience the sacrifice in the here and now, and people we will never meet enjoy the benefit. So instead the present is essentially “colonizing the future,” in the words of the social philosopher Roman Krznaric, treating it “as a distant colonial outpost where we dump ecological degradation, nuclear waste, public debt and technological risk.”
“There are three classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see.” ― Leonardo da Vinci

Insensible before the wave so soon released by callous fate. Affected most, they understand the least, and understanding, when it comes, invariably arrives too late

petm

  • Grease ice
  • Posts: 675
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 335
  • Likes Given: 27
Re: Extinction Rebellion
« Reply #306 on: August 14, 2019, 05:44:48 PM »
I.e., People are selfish as*&^%s, so we're f*&^ed.

Yup.

On the bright side, it looks like we may be heading for a global recession soon, so at least that taps the brakes a little.

nanning

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1118
  • 0Kg CO2, 35 KWh/wk,130L H2O/wk, No heating
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 166
  • Likes Given: 7238
Re: Extinction Rebellion
« Reply #307 on: August 14, 2019, 06:27:48 PM »
"You don’t need a $3 million MRI machine to know that human beings are self-centered creatures."

Humans are not self-centered creatures. We are social group-animals. Look at the 12000bc-200000bc humans. What that article describes is what 'civilisation' culture does with perception; with what we in civilisation see as normal. An unseen bias.
"It is preoccupation with possessions, more than anything else, that prevents us from living freely and nobly" - Bertrand Russell
   Simple: minimize your possessions and be free and kind    It's just a mindset.       Refugees welcome

rboyd

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1193
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 179
  • Likes Given: 44
Re: Extinction Rebellion
« Reply #308 on: August 16, 2019, 07:24:48 PM »
"You don’t need a $3 million MRI machine to know that human beings are self-centered creatures."

Humans are not self-centered creatures. We are social group-animals. Look at the 12000bc-200000bc humans. What that article describes is what 'civilisation' culture does with perception; with what we in civilisation see as normal. An unseen bias.

There is a lot of research that shows a high degree of altruism during natural disasters. The exceptions are where there is a massive difference between the rich and the poor and they live close together, then the former take the opportunity for a bit of "wealth redistribution".

TerryM

  • First-year ice
  • Posts: 5438
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 542
  • Likes Given: 5
Re: Extinction Rebellion
« Reply #309 on: August 16, 2019, 11:34:47 PM »
I was once having an EEG recorded as the operator - a Scandinavian lass in a very tight skirt was crossing and uncrossing her very long legs.


I've wondered just how much her present had affected the squiggly lines. ::)
Terry

Neven

  • Administrator
  • First-year ice
  • *****
  • Posts: 7209
    • View Profile
    • Arctic Sea Ice Blog
  • Liked: 732
  • Likes Given: 478
Re: Extinction Rebellion
« Reply #310 on: August 17, 2019, 12:23:28 AM »
Was it already squiggly back then?  ::)
Il faut comparer, comparer, comparer, et cultiver notre jardin

DrTskoul

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1451
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 212
  • Likes Given: 60
Re: Extinction Rebellion
« Reply #311 on: August 17, 2019, 12:59:02 AM »
Was it already squiggly back then?  ::)

A flat one is usually a problem...

TerryM

  • First-year ice
  • Posts: 5438
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 542
  • Likes Given: 5
Re: Extinction Rebellion
« Reply #312 on: August 17, 2019, 02:16:53 PM »
Was it already squiggly back then?  ::)


Much squigglier than now. :(
Terry

nanning

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1118
  • 0Kg CO2, 35 KWh/wk,130L H2O/wk, No heating
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 166
  • Likes Given: 7238
Re: Extinction Rebellion
« Reply #313 on: August 22, 2019, 08:40:45 AM »
First Dog On The Moon on Civil Disobedience

"It is preoccupation with possessions, more than anything else, that prevents us from living freely and nobly" - Bertrand Russell
   Simple: minimize your possessions and be free and kind    It's just a mindset.       Refugees welcome

petm

  • Grease ice
  • Posts: 675
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 335
  • Likes Given: 27
Re: Extinction Rebellion
« Reply #314 on: August 23, 2019, 02:27:34 AM »

nanning

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1118
  • 0Kg CO2, 35 KWh/wk,130L H2O/wk, No heating
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 166
  • Likes Given: 7238
Re: Extinction Rebellion
« Reply #315 on: August 24, 2019, 07:28:42 AM »
^^
What a great interview. This Roger Hallam is amazing. Doesn't get provoked.
Mr. Hallam can think straight.
He lives in reality with high morality and responsibility.
A beautiful human in my view.

Thanks for sharing petm!
"It is preoccupation with possessions, more than anything else, that prevents us from living freely and nobly" - Bertrand Russell
   Simple: minimize your possessions and be free and kind    It's just a mindset.       Refugees welcome

Neven

  • Administrator
  • First-year ice
  • *****
  • Posts: 7209
    • View Profile
    • Arctic Sea Ice Blog
  • Liked: 732
  • Likes Given: 478
Re: Extinction Rebellion
« Reply #316 on: August 24, 2019, 09:43:10 AM »
Thanks from me too. At first I thought: Hmm, this is a bit of a nutter (I think I misunderstood him saying that within 10 years 6 billion people were going to die). But gradually I concluded that it was the interviewer who was, well not a nutter, but someone whose intelligence prevents them from thinking straight.
Il faut comparer, comparer, comparer, et cultiver notre jardin

Tom_Mazanec

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1739
    • View Profile
    • Planet Mazanec
  • Liked: 396
  • Likes Given: 70
Re: Extinction Rebellion
« Reply #317 on: August 27, 2019, 09:05:24 PM »
Extinction Rebellion says this village in Cornwall will sink into the ocean
https://www.cornwalllive.com/news/extinction-rebellion-says-village-cornwall-3244726
Quote
There are fears that a village in Cornwall will disappear under the ocean due to climate change.

Extinction Rebellion has highlighted risks that Flushing, near Falmouth, could be flooded when sea levels rise.


During an action in Falmouth on Sunday, August 11, the group displayed flags included the call "Your planet needs you" and "RIP Flushing".

Flooding risks have been monitored for years, the Environment Agency (EA) confirmed.
SHARKS (CROSSED OUT) MONGEESE (SIC) WITH FRICKIN LASER BEAMS ATTACHED TO THEIR HEADS

Shared Humanity

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 3981
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 430
  • Likes Given: 52
Re: Extinction Rebellion
« Reply #318 on: August 27, 2019, 10:00:31 PM »
"You don’t need a $3 million MRI machine to know that human beings are self-centered creatures."

Humans are not self-centered creatures. We are social group-animals. Look at the 12000bc-200000bc humans. What that article describes is what 'civilisation' culture does with perception; with what we in civilisation see as normal. An unseen bias.

We are actually hard wired for empathy. If we had not been, this puny little primate would not have survived and could not thrive in cities with millions of people.


TerryM

  • First-year ice
  • Posts: 5438
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 542
  • Likes Given: 5
Re: Extinction Rebellion
« Reply #319 on: August 27, 2019, 10:33:35 PM »
Tell it to your banker. :(
Terry

Neven

  • Administrator
  • First-year ice
  • *****
  • Posts: 7209
    • View Profile
    • Arctic Sea Ice Blog
  • Liked: 732
  • Likes Given: 478
Re: Extinction Rebellion
« Reply #320 on: August 27, 2019, 10:39:43 PM »
Poor banker. Poor, poor banker.
Il faut comparer, comparer, comparer, et cultiver notre jardin

TerryM

  • First-year ice
  • Posts: 5438
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 542
  • Likes Given: 5
Re: Extinction Rebellion
« Reply #321 on: August 27, 2019, 11:04:09 PM »
Poor banker. Poor, poor banker.
Haven't met one since 2008.
Terry

rboyd

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1193
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 179
  • Likes Given: 44
Re: Extinction Rebellion
« Reply #322 on: August 31, 2019, 10:42:25 PM »
What the Left Can Learn from Extinction Rebellion

Quote
XR has mobilised so many so quickly under the vaguest of unifying principles: there is a climate emergency. It is going to be bad. It is urgent. Governments need to act. Who could disagree? XR’s lack of a substantial political analysis of the root causes of the ecological crisis is precisely the reason they have been able to get so many people on the streets so quickly.

With no explicit ideological story of climate breakdown's causes and solutions, people spanning the political spectrum have felt comfortable in XR. XR has shown that very many people can join a cause demanding something be done about climate change – and with the something unclear, that there is little for potential participants to disagree with to the extent that they refuse to join.

The contradiction born out of this is important. Proposing specific policies would inevitably fragment a coalition held together only by a shared belief in the scale of the crisis and the urgency of the need to act. On the other hand, without strong demands, XR is politically toothless and little more than enhanced awareness raising.

Whatever you think of XR, and regardless of its prospects for reform, we must all take this moment as an incentive to leap into the climate movement. This could be agitating to change XR by getting involved. More productive, though, would be organising through our political parties, unions, workplaces, faith groups, schools and universities, demanding a future of prosperity for all, underwritten by environmental stability.

https://www.vice.com/en_ca/article/qv7bb3/extinction-rebellion-climate-lessons-get-involved

vox_mundi

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1761
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 748
  • Likes Given: 117
Re: Extinction Rebellion
« Reply #323 on: September 03, 2019, 10:47:14 PM »


2 Sep 2019 (Juice Media) – The Government™ has made an ad about the state of the world as we enter the third decade of the 21st century, and it’s surprisingly honest and informative.

Quote
... "A feedback loop is the scientific term for when a species uses its own ignorance to screw itself and everything else around it so hard that its own planet tells it to GTFO"

h/t to the des
“There are three classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see.” ― Leonardo da Vinci

Insensible before the wave so soon released by callous fate. Affected most, they understand the least, and understanding, when it comes, invariably arrives too late

nanning

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1118
  • 0Kg CO2, 35 KWh/wk,130L H2O/wk, No heating
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 166
  • Likes Given: 7238
Re: Extinction Rebellion
« Reply #324 on: September 07, 2019, 08:04:11 AM »
Recent very interesting video (1h15m). These people have my support and admiration.

  Deep adaptation: Getting real about the climate apocalypse
  Panel discussion at BYLINE FESTIVAL 2019 (aug2019)

  Roger Hallam, Professor Rupert Read & Marc Lopatin
   chaired by Anita McNaught

This professor walks barefoot :)

"It is preoccupation with possessions, more than anything else, that prevents us from living freely and nobly" - Bertrand Russell
   Simple: minimize your possessions and be free and kind    It's just a mindset.       Refugees welcome

nanning

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1118
  • 0Kg CO2, 35 KWh/wk,130L H2O/wk, No heating
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 166
  • Likes Given: 7238
Re: Extinction Rebellion
« Reply #325 on: September 09, 2019, 08:49:06 AM »
Having seen the whole video, i have my doubts about Rupert Read. He may be an industry/government pawn.
Of course I mean no offence to the heroic people of the XR group :)
"It is preoccupation with possessions, more than anything else, that prevents us from living freely and nobly" - Bertrand Russell
   Simple: minimize your possessions and be free and kind    It's just a mindset.       Refugees welcome

rboyd

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1193
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 179
  • Likes Given: 44
Re: Extinction Rebellion
« Reply #326 on: September 10, 2019, 07:14:51 PM »
"The default is going to be fascism ..." (Roger) is the one of the best insights in the video, the other is the problem of asking the non-rich of humanity to give up their aspirations to "be like us" (Marc), let alone asking the rich to give up their current way of life.

The latter leads to the former, as people look to a strongman/woman to find an easier way out.The very rich are only too happy to support such a person, as they were with Hitler and Mussolini. Democracy (even the make-believe version currently practised in western countries) is not a pre-requisite for successful capitalism.

I don't think that Rupert is "managed opposition" just much less optimistic.

Shared Humanity

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 3981
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 430
  • Likes Given: 52
Re: Extinction Rebellion
« Reply #327 on: September 10, 2019, 08:09:33 PM »
"The default is going to be fascism ..."

Yes.

philopek

  • Frazil ice
  • Posts: 464
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 210
  • Likes Given: 40
Re: Extinction Rebellion
« Reply #328 on: September 10, 2019, 10:32:38 PM »
"The default is going to be fascism ..." (Roger) is the one of the best insights in the video, the other is the problem of asking the non-rich of humanity to give up their aspirations to "be like us" (Marc), let alone asking the rich to give up their current way of life.

+1

Well put indeed.

Tom_Mazanec

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1739
    • View Profile
    • Planet Mazanec
  • Liked: 396
  • Likes Given: 70
Re: Extinction Rebellion
« Reply #329 on: September 13, 2019, 10:00:05 PM »
HEATHROW DRONE PROTEST: WHEN ARE CLIMATE CHANGE ACTIVISTS GOING TO SHUT DOWN AIRPORT AND WHY?
https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/heathrow-drone-protest-pause-climate-change-airport-extinction-rebellion-nats-a9101346.html
Quote
A group of climate change activists that is a splinter of the Extinction Rebellion movement.

In the wake of its London-wide shutdown at key junctions and bridges in April 2019, Extinction Rebellion announced plans to close Heathrow airport on 18 June and for 10 days from 1 July using a “swarm” of drones.

After some vocal opposition to the plan, and a warning from Scotland Yard that protesters could face life sentences, Extinction Rebellion abandoned the plan. But some activists chose to continue with the plan, under the banner of Heathrow Pause. They plan to start their action at 3am on Friday 13 September 2019.
SHARKS (CROSSED OUT) MONGEESE (SIC) WITH FRICKIN LASER BEAMS ATTACHED TO THEIR HEADS

gerontocrat

  • First-year ice
  • Posts: 6835
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 1736
  • Likes Given: 22
Re: Extinction Rebellion
« Reply #330 on: September 15, 2019, 08:20:51 PM »
The extinction rebellion successes and recent decisions by governments etc to declare a "climate emergency" has re-energised the climate denial industry in Europe especially - with assistance from the USA.

Skeptical Science picked up this  (see below) from the UK newspaper "The Independent".  It has a good overview of the connections between organisations, and some I did not know were in the AGW denial industry - e.g. Adam Smith Institute.

https://www.independent.co.uk/environment/climate-change-science-deniers-boris-johnson-environment-leak-a9094631.html
____________________________________________
Hundreds of climate sceptics to mount international campaign to stop net-zero targets being made law
Quote
Exclusive: The signatories are part of a network pushing for environmental deregulation after Brexit – and some have links with Boris Johnson’s cabinet

Phoebe WestonScience Correspondent @phoeb0
Friday 6 September 2019 22:53

Hundreds of climate change deniers including academics, politicians and lobbyists are to launch a campaign to stop commitments to net zero carbon emissions being enshrined in law, The Independent can reveal.

A letter titled “There is no climate emergency” – which has been signed by 400 people who deem climate change to be a myth – is being sent to leaders of European Union (EU) and United Nations (UN) institutions in the coming weeks ahead of key environment talks.

The group will take further steps, which are to be outlined in press conferences in Oslo, Brussels, The Hague and Rome. The climate deniers are connected to a transatlantic network of think tanks pushing for environmental deregulation after Brexit, which also have a history of climate science denial.

The letter, obtained by investigative non-profit news organisation DeSmog, shows the group has links with members of Boris Johnson’s Cabinet.

The “European Declaration” letter claims current changes in the climate are “expected from the cyclic behaviour of the climate system”. It also says there is “no proof” that carbon dioxide is a major driver of climate change.

There are two signatories associated with the Cato Institute – who left the think tank in May - and several signatories from the Heartland Institute in the US, both of which are part of the Koch-funded Atlas Network. UK-based free-market organisations such as the Institute of Economic Affairs (IEA), Adam Smith Institute (ASI), and Taxpayers’ Alliance also belong to the network.

Matthew Elliot – who is now reported to be advising Chancellor Sajid Javid – founded Taxpayer’s Alliance. An old employee of Taxpayer’s Alliance, Chloe Westley, has also joined Mr Johnson’s team at No 10. Liz Truss has appointed two special advisors from the IEA and ASI.

The UK’s main climate denial group, the Global Warming Policy Foundation (GWPF), founded by former chancellor Nigel Lawson, is well represented on the list.

The group’s “urgent message” is that the EU net-zero carbon goal – a policy that was blocked by Poland and three other member states in June – should be “strongly opposed”.

“There is no climate emergency and therefore no cause for panic and alarm ... Our advice to political leaders is that science should aim at significantly better understanding the climate system while politics should focus on minimising potential climate damage,” the letter reads.

Quote
Robert Brulle, professor of sociology at Drexel University and an expert on climate science denial, told DeSmog it looked like a panicked response to the significant media coverage on the climate crisis after influential protests by Extinction Rebellion and Greta Thunberg.

“The talking points are stale and patently scientific nonsense. That isn’t critical. The point would be to keep the ‘contested’ nature of climate change alive,” he said.
[/size][/i]

"Para a Causa do Povo a Luta Continua!"
"And that's all I'm going to say about that". Forrest Gump
"Damn, I wanted to see what happened next" (Epitaph)

Reginald

  • New ice
  • Posts: 5
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 5
  • Likes Given: 1
Re: Extinction Rebellion
« Reply #331 on: September 19, 2019, 04:28:29 AM »
Just Days Ahead of Employee Climate Strike, Microsoft Announces Partnership with Chevron to Accelerate Oil Extraction

https://gizmodo.com/just-days-ahead-of-employee-climate-strike-microsoft-a-1838229409

Gizmodo, By Brian Merchant, September 18

Mere days before Microsoft workers are set to walk out of their jobs and publicly call on their employer to reduce carbon emissions and sever its ties with fossil fuel companies, the tech giant has announced a major partnership with two of the biggest corporations in the oil industry. Microsoft employees have responded with a fiery statement condemning the partnership and calling on fellow employees to join them in walking out on September 20th.

Tom_Mazanec

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1739
    • View Profile
    • Planet Mazanec
  • Liked: 396
  • Likes Given: 70
Re: Extinction Rebellion
« Reply #332 on: September 21, 2019, 01:32:45 AM »
'We declare our support for Extinction Rebellion': an open letter from Australia's academics
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2019/sep/20/we-declare-our-support-for-extinction-rebellion-an-open-letter-from-australias-academics
Quote
We therefore declare our support for the Extinction Rebellion (XR) movement and the global week of non-violent civil disobedience and disruption planned for October. We stand behind XR’s demands for the Australian government to declare a climate emergency and to establish a citizens’ assembly to work with scientists on the basis of current evidence to develop a credible and just plan for rapid total decarbonisation of the economy.

Patagonia enlists teen activists to speak out for Global Climate Strike campaign
https://www.fastcompany.com/90406565/patagonia-enlists-teen-activists-to-speak-out-for-global-climate-strike-campaign
Quote
It comes as no surprise that Patagonia decided to close its doors on Friday for a few hours so its employees can march alongside young activists in the Global Climate Strike. But the brand is also doing something for Climate Week that it rarely does: paying for advertising.

In order to raise awareness for Climate Week, Patagonia has created a new campaign featuring teen activists from around America and the world, telling Congress and other leaders that there is no room in government for climate deniers.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2019, 01:58:12 AM by Tom_Mazanec »
SHARKS (CROSSED OUT) MONGEESE (SIC) WITH FRICKIN LASER BEAMS ATTACHED TO THEIR HEADS

blumenkraft

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1593
  • Fans of Hans Club - circa 2018
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 713
  • Likes Given: 985
Re: Extinction Rebellion
« Reply #333 on: September 21, 2019, 01:44:14 PM »
Climate Strike in Hamburg! 100,000 people here

1,400,000 all over Germany!


Link >> https://www.reddit.com/r/climate/comments/d6ws6e/climate_strike_in_hamburg_100000_people_here/

Refugees welcome

Sigmetnow

  • Multi-year ice
  • Posts: 15948
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 508
  • Likes Given: 235
Re: Extinction Rebellion
« Reply #334 on: September 23, 2019, 03:23:00 PM »
U.S.: Washington, DC this Monday morning

'Traffic across DC is gridlocked' as police begin arresting climate activists
Quote
(CNN)Climate change activists are shutting down the morning commute in the nation's capital, blocking key intersections across Washington, D.C., to bring attention to their cause.

"Traffic across DC is gridlocked," tweeted reporter Sam Sweeney of CNN affiliate WJLA.
He also tweeted, "DC police arresting student climate activists throughout DC."

The #ShutdownDC action is part of the global climate strikes young activists have been leading since Friday, to try to spur government action on the climate crisis.

Protesters blocked 16th Street Northwest at K Street Northwest. They connected themselves to a boat in the middle of the intersection and were being removed by police a couple of blocks from the White House.

A climate change activist group, Extinction Rebellion Washington DC, posted a video on Twitter. ...
https://www.cnn.com/2019/09/23/us/washington-climate-shutdown-trnd/index.html
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

Tom_Mazanec

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1739
    • View Profile
    • Planet Mazanec
  • Liked: 396
  • Likes Given: 70
Re: Extinction Rebellion
« Reply #335 on: September 24, 2019, 09:52:23 PM »
Police cut apart Extinction Rebellion boat at Washington DC climate protest
https://metro.co.uk/2019/09/23/police-cut-apart-extinction-rebellion-boat-washington-dc-climate-protest-10794525/
Quote
Police in Washington cut apart an Extinction Rebellion protest boat today which protesters were chained to as the demo brought the US capital to a standstill. Hundreds of protesters blocked four major transport routes to draw attention to a summit in New York that 60 world leaders will attend to discuss how to tackle climate change. Some demonstrators chained themselves to yellow and pink sailboats – with signs reading ‘tell the truth’ and rebel for life’ – that were parked in the middle of busy intersections near the White House. Police officers used chain cutters to release the protesters and covered the protesters with riot shields and fire blankets as sparks flew. Around 200 other protesters staged a massive street party nearby.


Read more: https://metro.co.uk/2019/09/23/police-cut-apart-extinction-rebellion-boat-washington-dc-climate-protest-10794525/?ito=cbshare

Twitter: https://twitter.com/MetroUK | Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/MetroUK/
SHARKS (CROSSED OUT) MONGEESE (SIC) WITH FRICKIN LASER BEAMS ATTACHED TO THEIR HEADS

sidd

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 4987
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 389
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Extinction Rebellion
« Reply #336 on: September 25, 2019, 01:58:29 AM »
Hedges at truthdig calls for revolution:

"The ruling elites and the corporations they serve are the principal obstacles to change. They cannot be reformed. And this means revolution ... since the elites won’t give up power willingly, we will have to take it through nonviolent action."

"As long as we do not disrupt the machine, as long as we protest according to their rules, the elites will let us march through the streets of Washington in pussy hats or walk out of school for a day"

"When power is threatened, as it was in the sustained protests during the Occupy encampments and at Standing Rock, the ruling elites react very differently. They employ the full weight of the surveillance state to demonize the protesters, arrest and detain the leadership and infiltrate agents provocateurs to carry out violent assaults to justify the use of the police and security forces to shut the protests down."

"Refusal to participate in the further destruction of the planet means a rupture with traditional politics. It means noncooperation with authority. It means defying in every nonviolent way possible consumer capitalism, militarism and imperialism."

https://www.truthdig.com/articles/saving-the-planet-means-overthrowing-the-ruling-elites/

sidd



nanning

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1118
  • 0Kg CO2, 35 KWh/wk,130L H2O/wk, No heating
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 166
  • Likes Given: 7238
Re: Extinction Rebellion
« Reply #337 on: September 25, 2019, 06:45:22 PM »
  Biodiversity touches every aspect of our lives – so why has its loss been ignored?
by Robert Watson, the former chair of the Intergovernmental Science-Policy Platform for Biodiversity and Ecosystem Services

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/sep/19/biodiversity-touches-every-aspect-of-our-lives-so-why-has-its-loss-been-ignored


  Quotes:

The evidence is unequivocal: biodiversity, important in its own right and essential for current and future generations, is being destroyed by human activities at a rate unprecedented in human history.

Governments around the world recognised this at the Earth summit in Brazil in 1992 and established the Convention on Biological Diversity to protect and conserve biodiversity. But the situation has become more and more dire. I have chaired or co-chaired three international assessments on the state of knowledge of biodiversity, and all have repeated the same message – we are destroying it at an alarming rate. Each time we have called for action, only to be largely ignored.

[biodiversity] is central to development, through food, water and energy security. It has significant economic value, which should be recognised in national accounting systems. It is a security issue in so far as loss of natural resources, especially in developing countries, can lead to conflict. It is an ethical issue because loss of biodiversity hurts the poorest people, further exacerbating an already inequitable world. And it is also a moral issue, because we should not destroy the living planet.

To date, climate crisis has received most of the attention. The limited attention on biodiversity tends to focus on saving large charismatic animals, rather than informing the public of the importance of biodiversity to human life.

(I could not find a biodiversity thread. The search function is useless to me. Sorry)
"It is preoccupation with possessions, more than anything else, that prevents us from living freely and nobly" - Bertrand Russell
   Simple: minimize your possessions and be free and kind    It's just a mindset.       Refugees welcome

Tor Bejnar

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 3116
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 410
  • Likes Given: 200
Re: Extinction Rebellion
« Reply #338 on: September 25, 2019, 08:20:52 PM »
Nanning,
Anthropogenic Existential Risk, Ecological disruption and human welfare, Collapse marches on and Climate Change and Loss of Species threads looks like reasonable homes for your post.  (And I went through 4 pages of results of searching for "biodiversity" to find them.) [Only Arctic Biodiversity Assessment had the word in the thread's title.]

Given there are 112 posts including the term "biodiversity", we haven't been totaling ignoring the issue.
Arctic ice is healthy for children and other living things.

gerontocrat

  • First-year ice
  • Posts: 6835
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 1736
  • Likes Given: 22
Re: Extinction Rebellion
« Reply #339 on: September 25, 2019, 08:33:52 PM »

(I could not find a biodiversity thread. The search function is useless to me. Sorry)

Threads.......
Consequences / Re: Effects of Climate Change on the biosphere
Consequences / Re: Decline in insect populations
Consequences / Re: The Holocene Extinction
The rest / Re: Wildlife

Yes, it is all over the place. A biodiversity thread might be the place to put reports such as this

https://wwf.panda.org/knowledge_hub/all_publications/living_planet_report_2018/
"Para a Causa do Povo a Luta Continua!"
"And that's all I'm going to say about that". Forrest Gump
"Damn, I wanted to see what happened next" (Epitaph)

nanning

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1118
  • 0Kg CO2, 35 KWh/wk,130L H2O/wk, No heating
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 166
  • Likes Given: 7238
Re: Extinction Rebellion
« Reply #340 on: September 25, 2019, 08:46:26 PM »
Thanks Tor and gerontocrat.
I think it is best to open a new "biodiversity issues" thread when the next big report is published. What do you think?
"It is preoccupation with possessions, more than anything else, that prevents us from living freely and nobly" - Bertrand Russell
   Simple: minimize your possessions and be free and kind    It's just a mindset.       Refugees welcome

blumenkraft

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1593
  • Fans of Hans Club - circa 2018
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 713
  • Likes Given: 985
Re: Extinction Rebellion
« Reply #341 on: September 25, 2019, 09:02:03 PM »
Somehow this reminds me of this one:



 ;D
Refugees welcome

gerontocrat

  • First-year ice
  • Posts: 6835
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 1736
  • Likes Given: 22
Re: Extinction Rebellion
« Reply #342 on: September 26, 2019, 09:18:10 PM »
I've just stumbled on this article, that gives some hope for "extinction rebellion" making a real difference

http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20190513-it-only-takes-35-of-people-to-change-the-world
Nonviolent protests are twice as likely to succeed as armed conflicts – and those engaging a threshold of 3.5% of the population have never failed to bring about change.
Quote
There are, of course, many ethical reasons to use nonviolent strategies. But compelling research by Erica Chenoweth, a political scientist at Harvard University, confirms that civil disobedience is not only the moral choice; it is also the most powerful way of shaping world politics – by a long way.

Looking at hundreds of campaigns over the last century, Chenoweth found that nonviolent campaigns are twice as likely to achieve their goals as violent campaigns. And although the exact dynamics will depend on many factors, she has shown it takes around 3.5% of the population actively participating in the protests to ensure serious political change.

Chenoweth’s influence can be seen in the recent Extinction Rebellion protests, whose founders say they have been directly inspired by her findings.

Strength in numbers

Overall, nonviolent campaigns were twice as likely to succeed as violent campaigns: they led to political change 53% of the time compared to 26% for the violent protests.

This was partly the result of strength in numbers. Chenoweth argues that nonviolent campaigns are more likely to succeed because they can recruit many more participants from a much broader demographic, which can cause severe disruption that paralyses normal urban life and the functioning of society.

In fact, of the 25 largest campaigns that they studied, 20 were nonviolent, and 14 of these were outright successes. Overall, the nonviolent campaigns attracted around four times as many participants (200,000) as the average violent campaign (50,000).

The People Power campaign against the Marcos regime in the Philippines, for instance, attracted two million participants at its height, while the Brazilian uprising in 1984 and 1985 attracted one million, and the Velvet Revolution in Czechoslovakia in 1989 attracted 500,000 participants.
"Para a Causa do Povo a Luta Continua!"
"And that's all I'm going to say about that". Forrest Gump
"Damn, I wanted to see what happened next" (Epitaph)

etienne

  • Grease ice
  • Posts: 772
    • View Profile
    • About energy
  • Liked: 54
  • Likes Given: 1
Re: Extinction Rebellion
« Reply #343 on: September 27, 2019, 08:58:19 PM »
The problem I see in the XR actions (maybe I'm wrong), is that for a non violent campaign, the boycott strategy seems missing. I believe it is the only way to change companies is to buy only climate neutral products.

TerryM

  • First-year ice
  • Posts: 5438
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 542
  • Likes Given: 5
Re: Extinction Rebellion
« Reply #344 on: September 27, 2019, 10:21:30 PM »
^^
Ramen!!

Boycotting is not only effective, it also provides great personal satisfaction.


Terry

Tom_Mazanec

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1739
    • View Profile
    • Planet Mazanec
  • Liked: 396
  • Likes Given: 70
Re: Extinction Rebellion
« Reply #345 on: September 27, 2019, 11:29:20 PM »
The problem I see in the XR actions (maybe I'm wrong), is that for a non violent campaign, the boycott strategy seems missing. I believe it is the only way to change companies is to buy only climate neutral products.

Maybe there are no substitute products that are climate neutral?
SHARKS (CROSSED OUT) MONGEESE (SIC) WITH FRICKIN LASER BEAMS ATTACHED TO THEIR HEADS

rboyd

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1193
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 179
  • Likes Given: 44
Re: Extinction Rebellion
« Reply #346 on: September 28, 2019, 12:41:32 AM »
I've just stumbled on this article, that gives some hope for "extinction rebellion" making a real difference

http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20190513-it-only-takes-35-of-people-to-change-the-world
Nonviolent protests are twice as likely to succeed as armed conflicts – and those engaging a threshold of 3.5% of the population have never failed to bring about change.
Quote
There are, of course, many ethical reasons to use nonviolent strategies. But compelling research by Erica Chenoweth, a political scientist at Harvard University, confirms that civil disobedience is not only the moral choice; it is also the most powerful way of shaping world politics – by a long way.

Looking at hundreds of campaigns over the last century, Chenoweth found that nonviolent campaigns are twice as likely to achieve their goals as violent campaigns. And although the exact dynamics will depend on many factors, she has shown it takes around 3.5% of the population actively participating in the protests to ensure serious political change.

Chenoweth’s influence can be seen in the recent Extinction Rebellion protests, whose founders say they have been directly inspired by her findings.

I read the book that this is based upon as part of my comprehensive exams. The way in which cases are classified and the statistical analysis is deeply flawed and simplistic, if not actually consciously misrepresented. Complex examples, such as the Philippines where the army played a major role in pressuring the leader to go, are massively oversimplified. Different types of cases are also treated as if they are the same and more complex linkages (the Indian Army mutiny and terrorist activities prior to the "peaceful" ending of colonialism in India, the "peaceful" South Africa example when the ANC had an active military wing) are ignored.

The research was also heavily funded by the CIA, which is not disclosed openly up front. The author has received a lot of funding on other projects from Homeland Security, the Department of Defence and the CIA etc. Pretty much embedded in the security state. Would they be interested in selling the proposition that non-violent protest works?

A contrasting viewpoint:

Why Nonviolent Civil Resistance Doesn’t Work (Unless You Have Lots of Bombs)

https://www.counterpunch.org/2016/05/27/why-nonviolent-civil-resistance-doesnt-work-unless-you-have-lots-of-bombs/

« Last Edit: September 28, 2019, 12:53:22 AM by rboyd »

TerryM

  • First-year ice
  • Posts: 5438
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 542
  • Likes Given: 5
Re: Extinction Rebellion
« Reply #347 on: September 28, 2019, 03:27:47 AM »

rboyd

Thanks so much for your research.


The CIA's involvement is enough to convince me that the study is not just deeply flawed, but that it's conclusions are probably 180 degrees away from the truth.
Terry

etienne

  • Grease ice
  • Posts: 772
    • View Profile
    • About energy
  • Liked: 54
  • Likes Given: 1
Re: Extinction Rebellion
« Reply #348 on: September 28, 2019, 12:06:42 PM »
The problem I see in the XR actions (maybe I'm wrong), is that for a non violent campaign, the boycott strategy seems missing. I believe it is the only way to change companies is to buy only climate neutral products.

Maybe there are no substitute products that are climate neutral?
Well, even if climate neutrality is difficult to achieve, you still have many other possibility. Organic cotton exists, fairphones also. A boycott of selected product would create a huge pressure. A friend of mine who was on the streets yesterday is flying next week to Portugal.

nanning

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1118
  • 0Kg CO2, 35 KWh/wk,130L H2O/wk, No heating
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 166
  • Likes Given: 7238
Re: Extinction Rebellion
« Reply #349 on: September 28, 2019, 03:22:56 PM »
^^
What does climate neutrality mean?
"It is preoccupation with possessions, more than anything else, that prevents us from living freely and nobly" - Bertrand Russell
   Simple: minimize your possessions and be free and kind    It's just a mindset.       Refugees welcome