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zizek

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Brazil just elected a fascist
« on: October 28, 2018, 11:54:28 PM »
fuck it.

wili

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Re: Brazil just elected a fascist
« Reply #1 on: October 29, 2018, 01:11:31 AM »
Yeah, damn it.
"A force de chercher de bonnes raisons, on en trouve; on les dit; et après on y tient, non pas tant parce qu'elles sont bonnes que pour ne pas se démentir." Choderlos de Laclos "You struggle to come up with some valid reasons, then cling to them, not because they're good, but just to not back down."

Sleepy

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Re: Brazil just elected a fascist
« Reply #2 on: October 29, 2018, 03:52:15 AM »
What a nice way to start a new day.
Omnia mirari, etiam tritissima.
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wdmn

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Re: Brazil just elected a fascist
« Reply #3 on: October 29, 2018, 03:55:27 AM »
Quote
Bolsonaro has indicated he may open Indigenous areas up to mining, even potentially introducing a paved highway through the Amazon. The environmental impact of those policies would be “the biggest threat to the Amazon since Brazil was under a dictatorship,” said Doug Boucher, Scientific Advisor for The Union of Concerned Scientists’ Tropical Forests and Climate Initiative. “It’s a threat to the climate of the entire planet.”

...

Bolsonaro has also made his views on race blatantly clear: He has criticized the Brazilian government’s commitment to preserving vast swaths of the Amazon for Indigenous people, promising that he will “not to give the Indians another inch of land.” Moreover, Bolsonaro has allied himself with the right-wing ruralista bloc, which represents the interests of agribusinesses and large landholders, and has been trying to strip away environmental protections against deforestation for many years.

Bolsonaro’s proposed environmental hit list goes on. He has promised to scrap the country’s Environment Ministry altogether, putting it under the scope of the Agriculture Ministry, which is led by agribusiness.

“Instead of spreading the message that he will fight deforestation and organized crime, he says he will attack the ministry of environment, Ibama and ICMBio [Brazil’s federal environment agencies],” said Brazil’s current environment minister, Edson Duarte. “It’s the same as saying that he will withdraw the police from the streets.”

In many ways, Bolsonaro, an ex-army captain, seems to want to revert to the Amazonian policies that Brazil employed during the years of the South American nation’s dictatorship. At that time, during the ‘60s, ‘70s, and ‘80s, the country promoted rapid development of the Amazon, paving roads and converting the forests into farmland and ranchland.

Source: https://grist.org/article/how-brazils-presidential-election-could-eff-up-the-planet-for-everyone/


zheega

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Re: Brazil just elected a fascist
« Reply #4 on: October 29, 2018, 05:12:31 AM »
RIP Amazon rainforest

Hefaistos

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Re: Brazil just elected a fascist
« Reply #5 on: October 29, 2018, 05:29:50 AM »
Many Europeans are unable to make a difference, all the following are 'fascists' to them:

Jair Bolsonaro
Donald Trump
Viktor Orbán (hungary)
Rodrigo Duterte (Philippines)
Moamar Ghaddafi (Libya)
Sadam Hussein
Adolf Hitler

Are there degrees in hell?
Why do a majority of people vote for fascists to be their president in free and fair democratic elections?

Reallybigbunny

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Re: Brazil just elected a fascist
« Reply #6 on: October 29, 2018, 05:38:34 AM »
Ditto zizek

Wherestheice

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Re: Brazil just elected a fascist
« Reply #7 on: October 29, 2018, 05:50:07 AM »
This is sad news to anyone trying to stop the destruction of planet earth and the near term collapse of society.
"When the ice goes..... F***

solartim27

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Re: Brazil just elected a fascist
« Reply #8 on: October 29, 2018, 06:02:44 AM »
Not just ethnogenecide, but planetcide
https://mobile.twitter.com/EricHolthaus/status/1056768912350760960
https://mobile.twitter.com/AtuVava/status/1056755930132594689

Quote
It’s also ethnocide - there are indigenous people throughout The Brazilian rainforest who are being killed, their lands/homes destroyed ... being totally wiped out.
FNORD

mostly_lurking

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Re: Brazil just elected a fascist
« Reply #9 on: October 29, 2018, 08:13:16 AM »
Many Europeans are unable to make a difference, all the following are 'fascists' to them:

Jair Bolsonaro
Donald Trump
Viktor Orbán (hungary)
Rodrigo Duterte (Philippines)
Moamar Ghaddafi (Libya)
Sadam Hussein
Adolf Hitler

Are there degrees in hell?
Why do a majority of people vote for fascists to be their president in free and fair democratic elections?

That's the right question! Although these people are all not equivalent (Fascists is the wrong word for them as a group) the reasons they rose to power are quite the same. Maybe the "other side" went to far? Maybe globalism has gone too far too fast in the recent history?

Sleepy

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Re: Brazil just elected a fascist
« Reply #10 on: October 29, 2018, 08:47:22 AM »
Many Europeans are unable to make a difference, all the following are 'fascists' to them:

Jair Bolsonaro
Donald Trump
Viktor Orbán (hungary)
Rodrigo Duterte (Philippines)
Moamar Ghaddafi (Libya)
Sadam Hussein
Adolf Hitler

Are there degrees in hell?
Why do a majority of people vote for fascists to be their president in free and fair democratic elections?

Will Noam Chomsky suffice?
The clip attached below is from this (much longer interview) last month when he visited Lula:
https://youtu.be/ydUb6lXJ_8c?t=3049
Omnia mirari, etiam tritissima.
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Science is a jealous mistress and takes little account of a man's feelings.

Pmt111500

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Re: Brazil just elected a fascist
« Reply #11 on: October 29, 2018, 09:28:40 AM »
Amateur observations of Sea Ice since 2003.

Pmt111500

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Re: Brazil just elected a fascist
« Reply #12 on: October 30, 2018, 05:27:50 AM »
And as is the habit of fascists, the rewriting of history to suit their own ego started immediately. Kind of what Trump is trying against the press.

http://mobile.twitter.com/castriotar/status/1055836519318122496
Amateur observations of Sea Ice since 2003.

Sleepy

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Re: Brazil just elected a fascist
« Reply #13 on: November 04, 2018, 07:35:43 AM »
Don't be a sucker.

Omnia mirari, etiam tritissima.
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Science is a jealous mistress and takes little account of a man's feelings.

litesong

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Re: Brazil just elected a fascist
« Reply #14 on: November 05, 2018, 03:36:14 AM »
Why do a majority of people vote for fascists to be their president in free and fair democratic elections?
Does anyone have Woodie Guthrie's guitar?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/This_machine_kills_fascists#/media/File:Woody_Guthrie_2.jpg

litesong

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Re: Brazil just elected a fascist
« Reply #15 on: November 05, 2018, 03:48:00 AM »
RIP Amazon rainforest
You have to get it accurate..... Amazon rainforest.... rest in pieces.

FridaF

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Re: Brazil just elected a fascist
« Reply #16 on: November 06, 2018, 09:35:26 AM »
It is good that they elected someone who UNDERSTANDS something, unlike violent lefitists who will destroy their countries.

Mozi

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Re: Brazil just elected a fascist
« Reply #17 on: November 06, 2018, 02:24:06 PM »
The only thing Bolsonaro understands is fear and hate, which is more than you understand, apparently.

Forest Dweller

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Re: Brazil just elected a fascist
« Reply #18 on: November 08, 2018, 01:30:02 PM »
Ok, i am no fan of Bolsonaro either but i think there are a few misconceptions people have about The Amazon, indigenous and so on.

-Encroachment, deforestation and similar problems are actually worse in other provinces such as Acre or western Brazil.(or neighboring countries)
The Living Planet report just released mentions how from 1970-2014 The Amazon lost 20%.
Rather alarmingly, it also mentions how population decline of wildlife is worst in places such as river, estuaries etc at 83% overall, and how Central and South America overall is showing a 89% loss even!

- Similarly the situation of the indigenous people is also worse in those already more affected areas, while Amazonia still offers more refuge.
Tribes such as the Akuntsu, Munduruku or others who gained fame often actually live elsewhere or emerge from tiny remaining forest patches in more developed areas, or also places like Peru or Colombia.
This offers some hope that others remain unidentified in the heart of the Amazon.
I suspect many do myself.
You can find a truly excellent database here btw: https://pib.socioambiental.org/en/Table_of_Indigenous_Peoples

So in general concerning "the lungs of the Earth" what we appear to see is an encirclement working it's way inward from the edges and damaging habitat in the process.
For logistical reasons, it may not be that different under Bolsonaro in that respect and would still take a long time to truly destroy the Amazon.
(Of course his loathing of the indigenous and the habitat remains outrageous)
Climate change may do more damage and considerably faster through factors such as droughts and failure to cope evolutionary in time.
A study over the last 30 years which i just read speaks of how this is mostly affecting smaller species of trees.
Taller and more drought resistant vegetation less affected but still in trouble nonetheless.
No link for that, it has been paywalled sorry.

We'll have to wait and see of course but Bolsonaro is neither the first or only hard ass to mention he doesn't care about it all and placing industrial activity before environment.
That has been happening historically anyway and he may do outrageous things but i doubt it is possible for his regime to ramp it up by 200% or whatever out of the blue.

kassy

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Re: Brazil just elected a fascist
« Reply #19 on: November 08, 2018, 01:46:29 PM »

Sleepy

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Re: Brazil just elected a fascist
« Reply #20 on: November 15, 2018, 08:51:32 AM »
Bolsonaro’s deforestation of the Amazon has already begun
http://www.climatechangenews.com/2018/11/14/bolsonaros-deforestation-amazon-already-begun/
Quote
Deforestation in Brazil’s Amazon jumped almost 50% during the three month electoral season that brought Jair Bolsonaro to power, according to preliminary official figures.

That means the forest lost 1,674 sq km from August to October, an area more than double the size of New York City.

The main culprit was the conversion of forest to pasture. The largest increase was in the border area between Acre and Amazonas states. The deforestation increase there, compared with the same period in 2017, was 273% and 114%, respectively.

Deforestation usually increases in Brazil’s electoral years, amid promises from local politicians they will open up protected land or make environmental legislation more flexible if elected.

A slightly older article by Jonathan Cook:
https://www.jonathan-cook.net/blog/2018-10-30/bolsonaro-is-a-monster-engineered-by-our-media/
Quote
Social media has empowered ordinary people. It has shown them that they cannot trust their leaders, that power trumps justice, that the elite’s enrichment requires their poverty. They have concluded that, if the rich can engage in slash-and-burn politics against the planet, our only refuge, they can engage in slash-and-burn politics against the global elite.

Are they choosing wisely in electing a Trump or Bolsonaro? No. But the liberal guardians of the status quo are in no position to judge them. For decades, all parts of the corporate media have helped to undermine a genuine left that could have offered real solutions, that could have taken on and beaten the right, that could have offered a moral compass to a confused, desperate and disillusioned public.

Jenkins wants to lecture the masses about their depraved choices while he and his paper steer them away from any politician who cares about their welfare, who fights for a fairer society, who prioritises mending what is broken.

The western elites will decry Bolsonaro in the forlorn and cynical hope of shoring up their credentials as guardians of the existing, supposedly moral order. But they engineered him. Bolsonaro is their monster.
Omnia mirari, etiam tritissima.
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Science is a jealous mistress and takes little account of a man's feelings.

Alexander555

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Re: Brazil just elected a fascist
« Reply #21 on: November 15, 2018, 10:11:41 AM »
They are very right that they elected the Trumps and the Bolsonaros. Over here we have football scandal in first class. The import players from africa, and the sums of money that circle finds it's origine in all kinds of criminal activity. And all these football players know that they are a part in the chain of these criminals. So even if they know that everything around them is fraud and criminal, they will be silent. Because they are a part of that chain. So every day  that corrupt group becomes a bigger part of our country. Rotten to the core.

Neven

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Re: Brazil just elected a fascist
« Reply #22 on: November 15, 2018, 10:43:51 AM »
They are very right that they elected the Trumps and the Bolsonaros. Over here we have football scandal in first class. The import players from africa, and the sums of money that circle finds it's origine in all kinds of criminal activity. And all these football players know that they are a part in the chain of these criminals. So even if they know that everything around them is fraud and criminal, they will be silent. Because they are a part of that chain. So every day  that corrupt group becomes a bigger part of our country. Rotten to the core.

Sounds like you need a Bolsonaro in Belgium, eh?  ::)

Don't push it, Alex.
Compare, compare, compare

magnamentis

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Re: Brazil just elected a fascist
« Reply #23 on: November 15, 2018, 05:33:45 PM »
They are very right that they elected the Trumps and the Bolsonaros. Over here we have football scandal in first class. The import players from africa, and the sums of money that circle finds it's origine in all kinds of criminal activity. And all these football players know that they are a part in the chain of these criminals. So even if they know that everything around them is fraud and criminal, they will be silent. Because they are a part of that chain. So every day  that corrupt group becomes a bigger part of our country. Rotten to the core.

your findings that there is a lot of corruption and other crimes on highest levels you're not that far off but if you think that faschists and other populist potential autocrats are better and would solve only one thing without replacing the wiped out corruption with their own, that would be quite naive.

most politicians operate with pointing at true grievances only to either join or replace them with their own iteration once in charge.
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litesong

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Re: Brazil just elected a fascist
« Reply #24 on: November 15, 2018, 08:55:07 PM »
Bolsonaro’s deforestation of the Amazon has already begun
http://www.climatechangenews.com/2018/11/14/bolsonaros-deforestation-amazon-already-begun/

 Amazon deforestation per year is the equivalent of a square 50miles(3.7 times the length of Manhattan Is.) on each side. Jair Bolsonaro(PoisonNearly) has already & will increase this level of Amazon forest..... disappearance. Besides the forest crush, Brazil has a long history of 10,000 humans who have.... disappeared. A prime target (among many) by new pressy-dent of Brazil, Jair Bolsonaro will be Fabiano Maisonnaves to.... disappear, who has detailed the rape of the Amazon for years.
http://www.climatechangenews.com/author/fabiano-maisonnave/
« Last Edit: November 17, 2018, 09:16:39 PM by litesong »

gerontocrat

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Re: Brazil just elected a fascist
« Reply #25 on: November 15, 2018, 09:37:44 PM »
Bolsonaro’s deforestation of the Amazon has already begun
http://www.climatechangenews.com/2018/11/14/bolsonaros-deforestation-amazon-already-begun/

 Amazon deforestation is the equivalent of a square 50miles(3.7 times the length of Manhattan Is.) on each side. Jair Bolsonaro(PoisonNearly) has already & will increase this level of Amazon forest..... disappearance. Besides the forest crush, Brazil has a long history of 10,000 humans who have.... disappeared. A prime target (among many) by new pressy-dent of Brazil, Jair Bolsonaro will be Fabiano Maisonnaves to.... disappear, who has detailed the rape of the Amazon for years.
http://www.climatechangenews.com/author/fabiano-maisonnave/
It has just got worse - posted on Paris 2015 thread.

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litesong

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Re: Brazil just elected a fascist
« Reply #26 on: November 24, 2018, 05:15:57 AM »
Amazon deforestation per year is the equivalent of a square 50miles(3.7 times the length of Manhattan Is.) on each side. Jair Bolsonaro(PoisonNearly) has already & will increase this level of Amazon forest..... disappearance. Besides the forest crush, Brazil has a long history of 10,000 humans who have.... disappeared. A prime target (among many) by new pressy-dent of Brazil, Jair Bolsonaro will be Fabiano Maisonnaves to.... disappear, who has detailed the rape of the Amazon for years.
http://www.climatechangenews.com/author/fabiano-maisonnave/
More about poisonous Jair Bolsonaro(PoisonNearly):
Cuba is withdrawing ~ 3000 Cuban doctors from the poorest regions of Brazil. Under severe strictures imposed by Bolsonaro(PoisonNearly) authoritarianism, the Cuban government's humanitarian efforts are ending. Yeah, one despot rebels, when another despot acts.... despotically. How can such things be?