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sidd

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #250 on: February 14, 2020, 11:02:31 PM »
Amazing: AIPAC backs down. Ahmed at Middle East Monitor:

"AIPAC, the anti-Palestinian group issued a full apology for posting an advertisement accusing the Democratic Party of anti-Semitism. "

" “Radicals in the Democratic Party are pushing their anti-Semitic and anti-Israel policies down the throats of the American people,” the lobby group had said on Facebook. "

“unequivocal apology to the overwhelming majority of Democrats”

https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20200212-aipac-is-in-a-losing-battle-to-preserve-israels-bipartisan-status-in-america/

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blumenkraft

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #251 on: February 15, 2020, 07:46:34 AM »
For the record:

Those "anti-Semitic and anti-Israel policies" are to think that Palestinians have human rights too.

How dare they...

sidd

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #252 on: February 16, 2020, 06:40:46 AM »
How to buy an election. In fact, how to buy all of them:

https://www.fec.gov/data/receipts/individual-contributions/?contributor_name=michael+bloomberg&two_year_transaction_period=2020

(That's the first 30 results. There's many more.)

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blumenkraft

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #253 on: February 16, 2020, 08:50:24 AM »

The Walrus

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #254 on: February 16, 2020, 02:21:00 PM »
Hillarious blumenkraft.

blumenkraft

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #255 on: February 17, 2020, 12:26:52 PM »
Thanks, Walrus. :)

Not my idea though, it's stolen from the internet.

Just as the following.


sidd

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #256 on: February 18, 2020, 07:54:00 AM »
Levitz at nymag: why kids back bernie

"They proceeded to watch a putatively liberal government bail out the very financial institutions whose malfeasance had birthed the crisis, and then preside over a historically weak recovery that left many a millennial college graduate debt-burdened and underemployed."

" Even as the price of a college diploma has risen nigh-exponentially (thereby forcing the rising generation of college graduates to saddle themselves with onerous debts), the value of such diplomas on the U.S. job market has rapidly depreciated. And there is little reason to believe that this state of affairs will change"

"Most of the work that our society truly needs to get done every day doesn’t require elite academic or intellectual capacities. And thanks to the collapse of the American labor movement, most that blue and pink-collar work pays terribly."

"Tell a subset of your population that they are entitled to economic security if they play by certain rules, provide them with four years of training in critical thinking and access to a world-class library — then deny them the opportunities they were promised, while affixing an anchor of debt around their necks — and you’ve got a recipe for a revolutionary vanguard."

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/02/this-one-chart-explains-why-young-voters-back-bernie-sanders.html

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sidd

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #257 on: February 22, 2020, 10:06:03 AM »
Talk from the back of beyond in appalachian ohio

So i'm in this diner with a couple of my drivers, call em Pat and Mike.

Pat's a betting man, he likes to bet (small) on everything, like the next commercial on the TV. Mike dont gamble, quieter, older, deeper.

Pat goes, trying to get a rise out of me, "Hey sidd, wanna put down a case of beer on Sanders winning it all ?"

I dont take the bait : "Come on guys, I'll buy you a damn case tonite after you get the truck in, unload, after you get home."

Mike surprises us both, not least because he rarely says more than a sentence at a time: "Trump won, coz the big money didnt see him coming, didnt figure it out in time to stop him. Now that he's in, they pretty much tied him down, neutralized him, and business is good. He's a money guy, they know how to deal with scammers on the take."

"But now they see Sanders coming, he knows the turf, been round for a long time, knows how DC works. Sanders is much more dangerous to the billionaires than Trump ever was. This time around, they gonna make sure. If nuttn else works, there'll be a bullet with his name on it before he gets to the White House."
 
We all shut up, finished our meal, got back on the road. And, yeah, I dropped off a case.

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blumenkraft

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #258 on: February 22, 2020, 10:34:40 AM »
Seriously, that Mike dude has it damn right! Sanders should really have SS protection...

Actually, i'm rather surprised Ilhan Omar and AOC are not dead yet.

sidd

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #259 on: February 27, 2020, 06:15:05 AM »
Now this is interesting: AIPAC gets no love

" Sen. Amy Klobuchar and former South Bend, Indiana Mayor Pete Buttigieg both announced Wednesday that they would not attend the Israel lobby's meeting this year"

"Elizabeth Warren (D-Mass.) was the first Democratic presidential candidate this year to announce she would skip the conference, followed by Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) "

https://www.commondreams.org/news/2020/02/26/watershed-moment-joining-warren-and-sanders-centrist-democrats-klobuchar-and

Mmmm. Money don't buy as much as it used to.

sidd

blumenkraft

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #260 on: February 27, 2020, 06:21:35 AM »
Mmmm. Money don't buy as much as it used to

This is a function of Bernie Sanders running for president and pointing out what's wrong!

The man is effective! Imagine what he can do when he is actually in power.

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #261 on: February 29, 2020, 09:39:45 PM »
Google and elections: Slanting the picture

"Buttigieg is leading at 63 percent. Andrew Yang came in second at 46 percent."

" which candidates were able to consistently land in Gmail’s primary inbox "

" email has also become an algorithmically curated and monetized platform"

"If the platforms make it too easy to reach people for free, no one will buy ads. "

https://themarkup.org/google-the-giant/2020/02/26/wheres-my-email

One reason why i run my own mailservers ...

sidd

The Walrus

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #262 on: March 01, 2020, 08:01:09 PM »
The latest rcp polling average listed Biden at 39.7%, Sanders at 24.3%, Steyer at 11.7%, and Buttigieg at 11.3%. The actual results were Biden 48.4%, Sanders 19.8%, Steyer 11.3%, and Buttigieg at 8.2%.  At least the they got Steyer right.

TerryM

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #263 on: March 01, 2020, 08:32:52 PM »
^^
From Wikipedia:

As of at least 2019, RealClearPolitics has consistently been described, and described itself conservative or right-wing. It has been variously called far-right, right-wing, conservative and right-leaning.

Why are we listening to "far-right" opinions regarding the selection of the leadership of their political nemesis's party?
Isn't it likely that Real Clear Politics is attempting to influence Democratic voters in order to have their own candidate, (Trump) elected in November?

I think that RCP presenting polls showing a Biden surge indicate that the opposite is probably truth. Their fear of a Sanders win in November is palpable.
Terry

blumenkraft

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #264 on: March 01, 2020, 08:55:40 PM »
'We' don't do that, Terry. The Walrus does it.  ;)

And also, Steyer isn't even running anymore.

The Walrus

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #265 on: March 01, 2020, 09:53:02 PM »
^^
From Wikipedia:

As of at least 2019, RealClearPolitics has consistently been described, and described itself conservative or right-wing. It has been variously called far-right, right-wing, conservative and right-leaning.

Why are we listening to "far-right" opinions regarding the selection of the leadership of their political nemesis's party?
Isn't it likely that Real Clear Politics is attempting to influence Democratic voters in order to have their own candidate, (Trump) elected in November?

I think that RCP presenting polls showing a Biden surge indicate that the opposite is probably truth. Their fear of a Sanders win in November is palpable.
Terry

Why are you listening to Wikipedia over legitimate non-biased sites?  Like 538, realclearpolitics conducts no polling of their own, but analyze the results of other polling institutions.  I find it interesting that you have not criticized the inclusion of rap results in other posts.

The Walrus

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #266 on: March 01, 2020, 10:00:50 PM »
FYI, in 2016 rcp overestimated Clinton’s vote margin by 1.3%, and underestimated total Republican candidates by 1.7%.  Slightly to the left of the 538 predictions.  Hardly a right-wing slant as erroneously claimed.

TerryM

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #267 on: March 01, 2020, 10:23:05 PM »

Why are you listening to Wikipedia over legitimate non-biased sites?  Like 538, realclearpolitics conducts no polling of their own, but analyze the results of other polling institutions.  I find it interesting that you have not criticized the inclusion of rap results in other posts.


It's their analyzes that I object to. :)
I don't expect conservatives to pay attention to my suggestions as to who their leaders should be, but neither do I see why we should be concerned when they try to have an effect on our leadership race.
Pretending Realclear Politics is anything other than an advocacy group for the same powers that fight against a wider understanding of AGW is disingenuous.


I'm of the belief that the coronavirus will kill Trump's bid for reelection. This makes choosing the right candidate to fly our colors extremely important. The candidate chosen in the Democratic Primary will almost certainly become the next POTUS.


Will we select a progressive candidate that can bring our party back to its roots, or will we allow a Republican Lite candidate to placate the disillusioned Right?
Terry

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #268 on: March 01, 2020, 11:07:57 PM »
Terry,
I guess it your claim of advocacy to which I object.  Even Nate silvers considers them a worthy site.  I am not talking about their opinions, just their polling analysis, which I find to be quite good and unbiased.

blumenkraft

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #269 on: March 02, 2020, 06:57:53 AM »
Klondike Kat (aka The Walrus), you are cherrypicking again. This is how we know you.

colchonero

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #270 on: March 02, 2020, 12:34:02 PM »
RCP (polling data not website news) is just a place where you can see polls without having to google every single one personally and separetely. It's not like they have any influence on the numbers, they don't even do polls. You can calculate poll averages on your own, and the result would be the same. Math is math.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2020, 12:47:59 PM by colchonero »

Tom_Mazanec

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #271 on: March 02, 2020, 12:42:00 PM »
Klondike Kat (aka The Walrus), you are cherrypicking again. This is how we know you.
A lot of people cherry-pick. On the cosmoquest forum sock puppets are routinely banned so I imagine they can be recognized by the administrators or moderators of this forum too.
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wili

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #272 on: March 02, 2020, 12:55:05 PM »
colch...it is something of a truism that statistics can very easily be made to lie.

There are all sorts of decisions that go into coming up with these aggregated poll numbers. Do you include polls that are known to be flawed or biased? Do you weight polls according to how accurate or inaccurate they have been in the past...

All these decisions and more involve judgment, and judgment can be easily influenced by political bias.

I do look at aggregate polling at RealClear and 538, but always with a good dose of salt.
"A force de chercher de bonnes raisons, on en trouve; on les dit; et après on y tient, non pas tant parce qu'elles sont bonnes que pour ne pas se démentir." Choderlos de Laclos "You struggle to come up with some valid reasons, then cling to them, not because they're good, but just to not back down."

The Walrus

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #273 on: March 02, 2020, 04:00:39 PM »
RCP (polling data not website news) is just a place where you can see polls without having to google every single one personally and separetely. It's not like they have any influence on the numbers, they don't even do polls. You can calculate poll averages on your own, and the result would be the same. Math is math.

Some posters here do not like to use all the polls, because some of them do not show their preferred candidate doing as well as they like.  They prefer to cherry-pick their own polls.  Ironically, they refer to those who choose to examine all the data as cherry-pickers. lol

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #274 on: March 02, 2020, 04:18:51 PM »
RCP (polling data not website news) is just a place where you can see polls without having to google every single one personally and separetely. It's not like they have any influence on the numbers, they don't even do polls. You can calculate poll averages on your own, and the result would be the same. Math is math.

Some posters here do not like to use all the polls, because some of them do not show their preferred candidate doing as well as they like.  They prefer to cherry-pick their own polls.  Ironically, they refer to those who choose to examine all the data as cherry-pickers. lol
There is only one poll I care about.
The one on November 3.
SHARKS (CROSSED OUT) MONGEESE (SIC) WITH FRICKIN LASER BEAMS ATTACHED TO THEIR HEADS

blumenkraft

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #275 on: March 03, 2020, 08:42:52 AM »
Status of the democratic race 02.03.2020


colchonero

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #276 on: March 03, 2020, 03:37:40 PM »
Oh boy, polling and models are all over the place. Predicitons too. Everything changes like every hour.Some have Bernie something like 900v300, others like Nate Silver have now solid Biden plurality forecasted after 50 states. It's impossible to track anything right now, any analysis or twitter. Too many unknowns; impact of drop outs and endorsments, who will be viable where, and by how much, it's just to many things right now, that are uncertain, cause there wasn't enough time after SC for any average or conclusion to be made. It's everybody's game. No result would shock me, I don't think anyone knows what will happen. 14 states, 3 dropouts, 1 big win, states with almost no connection like Minnesota and Alabama, viability, impact on Warren and Bloomberg %, bow much of Pete and Klobuchar voters will go to Biden, and all of this in just 2 days.

The least predictable Super Tuesday in a long time. Not just who will win which state, but also by how much, who will be viable, how many delegates will candidates carry from each state. And it's not like, will somebody carry 15 or 18, the spectrum is huge.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2020, 06:11:14 PM by colchonero »

The Walrus

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #277 on: March 03, 2020, 04:11:20 PM »
Oh boy, polling and models are all over the place. Predicitons too. Everything changes like every hour.Some have Bernie something like 900v300, others like Nate Silver have now solid Biden plurality forecasted after 50 states. It's impossible to track anything right now, any analysis or twitter. To many unknowns; impact of drop outs and endorsments, who will be viable where, and by how much, it's just to many things right now, that are uncertain, cause there wasn't enough time after SC for any average or conclusion to be made. It's everybody's game. No result would shock me, I don't think anyone knows what will happen. 14 states, 3 dropouts, 1 big win, states with almost no connection like Minnesota and Alabama, viability, impact on Warren and Bloomberg %, bow much of Pete and Klobuchar voters will go to Biden, and all of this in just 2 days.

The least predictable Super Tuesday in a long time. Not just who will win which state, but also by how much, who will be viable, how many delegates will candidates carry from each state. And it's not like, will somebody carry 15 or 18, the spectrum is huge.

So true.  All polls released have been conducted with several of the candidates which have dropped out recently.  The best than can be ascertained (and it is tenuous at best) is to sum up the support for Sanders/Warren/Steyer/Gabbard and compare it to Biden/Bloomberg/Buttigieg/Klobuchar to get a feel for the left/center breakdown in the electorate.  That will be the real fight should the convention be brokered. 

Many have already voted via absentee ballots, so they casts their votes before the aforementioned candidates dropped out.  Not to mention that those names are still on the ballots today.  Of real interest is how well Warren and Bloomberg perform.  I suspect that Warren will outperform expectations, while Bloomberg underperforms.  But what do I know?

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #278 on: March 03, 2020, 08:12:14 PM »
Nate Silvers is forecasting almost an even split between Sanders and Biden tonight.  Sanders is expected to win (in order, starting from most likely) Vermont, California, Colorado, Maine, Utah, Minnesota, and Massachusetts.  The last two good be shaky as there are the home states of Warren and Klobuchar.  In order, Biden is expected to win Virginia, North Carolina, Alabama, Oklahoma, Arkansas, Tennessee, and Texas.  The delegate count is tougher to predict; Biden is expected to exceed the 15% threshold in every state, but Sanders is expected to fall short in a few.  Additionally, it depends on how Warren and Bloomberg perform. 

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/our-final-forecast-for-super-tuesday-shows-bidens-surge-and-lots-of-uncertainty/

blumenkraft

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #279 on: March 05, 2020, 06:54:28 AM »
Beto O'Rourke Has NO IDEA Why He Endorsed Joe Biden


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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #280 on: April 04, 2020, 12:04:10 PM »
If you look at that article from nanning yesterday. With these afro-americans begging for food. Who would be their best possible political friend ? Not the democrates, they are open border globalists. Their voters are globalists, illegals, refugees send by the UN.....They are all people that want to bring their families to the US. That is something they don't have in common with these afro americans that are already in the US for many generations. And the republicans are also not going to be their friends. Because they are infected with the same virus of globalist corruption. They all just make the swamp bigger and bigger. Their best option is Trump. Together they could get 80 % of the votes.

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #281 on: April 04, 2020, 02:02:36 PM »
Middle Age Riot on Twitter:
Quote
@middleageriot

Nobody voted for Donald Trump because they thought he was
a skilled communicator, charismatic leader, creative problem
solver, brilliant intellect, or selfless humanitarian.

They voted for him because he hated the same people they
did.


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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #282 on: April 04, 2020, 02:57:17 PM »
Middle Age Riot on Twitter:
Quote
@middleageriot

Nobody voted for Donald Trump because they thought he was
a skilled communicator, charismatic leader, creative problem
solver, brilliant intellect, or selfless humanitarian.

They voted for him because he hated the same people they
did.


blumencraft, you know that is BS because you know that is not why I voted for him.
SHARKS (CROSSED OUT) MONGEESE (SIC) WITH FRICKIN LASER BEAMS ATTACHED TO THEIR HEADS

blumenkraft

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #283 on: April 04, 2020, 03:12:12 PM »
Send you a PM, Tom.

Pmt111500

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #284 on: April 06, 2020, 06:33:19 PM »
Some Republicans are saying they now see what a dolt their President is. They might be lying to create a false sense of security in rather inactive democrats. I'd suggest democrats to trust, a bit, to a republican if he/she publishes a photo of voting ballot with proof of voting against all republicans. Voter ID should be included in the photo unless they can produce a birth certificate.

Please get rid of electronic voting machines and burn any state legislators suggesting using these on a stake. They are evil and you don't get to heaven, if you allow them to overvoltage the vote counting machines so zero is one.

blumenkraft

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #285 on: April 06, 2020, 06:37:34 PM »
Voting is supposed to be anonymous! It's anti-democratic if you have record of who voted how.

100% agreement on the voting machines. They are inherently manipulatable so the results must be considered manipulated.

sidd

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #286 on: April 10, 2020, 01:56:12 AM »
The loser vote: A Sanders supporter explains

"we are only ever one thing, namely losers."
"We are losers when we wake up and losers when we lay down to sleep. "

"That is why we are fighting for real things like healthcare and housing. It’s why we’re so fierce."

"go to McDonald’s for lunch and see, at the deep fryer, a man who is way too old to be working for minimum wage, you know exactly what a Sanders presidency would do for him, likewise if your coworker is sick and still coming to work because she’s out of sick days, likewise if your friend lost his job and cannot make his student loan payments. We do not need compassion."

https://medium.com/@srwm1138/im-a-bernie-volunteer-here-s-how-joe-biden-can-win-bernie-voters-6da47bbf4d52

sidd

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #287 on: April 10, 2020, 07:28:13 PM »
The simple matter is that Biden received more votes among Democrats than Sanders.  I am not convinced that Biden will lose more Sanders voters than Clinton, Clinton was less liked.  Biden is likely to win back many of the black voters that Clinton lost.  That would likely be enough to push him past Trump.  If not, the independent voters, who refused to vote for Clinton, would push him over the top.  Sanders would be less likely to win these voters, and probably lose the general election. 

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #288 on: April 11, 2020, 06:46:10 AM »
Re:  Sanders

Its over. Biden is the nominee unless DNC pulls a switch. I was addressing the question of Biden recruiting Sanders supporters. I see he wants to lower medicare availability age to 60 and forgive a large fraction of student loans, so that might help.

But then Obama promised a lot too ... one of the first tells was when he publicly denounced telecom immunity and then voted for it ... before he was president.

We shall see. Biden has a terrible record. If he beats Trump, which I doubt, one key will be who is Treasury Sec. When i saw obama's picks i knew a hard decade was coming.

sidd

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #289 on: April 11, 2020, 03:30:48 PM »
Re:  Sanders

Its over. Biden is the nominee unless DNC pulls a switch. I was addressing the question of Biden recruiting Sanders supporters. I see he wants to lower medicare availability age to 60 and forgive a large fraction of student loans, so that might help.

But then Obama promised a lot too ... one of the first tells was when he publicly denounced telecom immunity and then voted for it ... before he was president.

We shall see. Biden has a terrible record. If he beats Trump, which I doubt, one key will be who is Treasury Sec. When i saw obama's picks i knew a hard decade was coming.

sidd

Those are just campaign promises.  They sound good to the intended audience, but never make it any further.

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #290 on: April 13, 2020, 10:50:21 PM »
Frank at harper's on the history of populism:

" “Populism” is the word that comes to the lips of the respectable and the highly educated when they perceive the global system going haywire. "

"Ordinary people are agitated—everyone knows this—but our concern must lie with the well-being of the elites whom the people threaten to topple."

" if the people have lost faith in the ones in charge, it can only be because something has gone wrong with the people themselves."

" Populism was also said to be the mysterious force that had permitted the self-identified outsider Bernie Sanders to do so well in the Democratic primaries. Populism was also the name of the mass delusion that was leading the United Kingdom out of the European Union. Indeed, once you started looking, unauthorized troublemakers could be seen trouncing rightful ruling classes in countries all around the world. Populists were misleading people about globalization. Populists were saying mean things about elites. Populists were subverting traditional institutions of government. And populists were winning."

"Foreign Policy expressed it more archly: it’s time for the elites to rise up against the ignorant masses."

"His [Trump's] victory that November happened thanks to the Electoral College, an anti-populist instrument from long ago, but this irony quickly receded into the background. "

"the Tony Blair Institute for Global Change, an organization whose website announces that populists “can pose a real threat to democracy itself.” "

" In the fertile valley of the Kansas River ... somewhere in this bucolic setting that the controversial word “populist” was invented ... in May 1891.

"Could they have peeked into the future, that group of Topeka-bound passengers would have been astonished by the international reach and malign interpretations of their deed. That they were inventing a noun signifying “mob-minded hater of all things decent” would have come as a complete surprise to them. By coining the word “populist,” they intended to christen a movement that was brave and noble and fair—that would stand up to the narrow-minded and the intolerant."

"The People’s Party was the official moniker of the organization these men nicknamed, and it was one of America’s first great economic-political uprisings, a quintessential mass movement, in which rank-and-file Americans learned to think of the country’s inequitable economic system as a thing they might change by common effort. The party offered a glimpse of how citizens of a democracy, born with a faith in equality, could react when the brutal hierarchy of conventional arrangements was no longer tolerable."

"It was also our country’s final serious effort at breaking the national duopoly of the Republicans and Democrats."

"This bid for reform came during a period of unregulated corporate monopolies, in-your-face corruption, and crushing currency deflation"

" they had a platform, a cause, millions of potential constituents, and the ringing Jeffersonian slogan “Equal rights to all, special privileges to none.” "

"At the time of its premiere, “populist” was a term without ambiguity."

"it protested poverty, unbearable debt, monopoly, and corruption, and it looked ahead to the day when these were ended by the political actions of the people themselves. "

"Up until then, mainstream politicians in America had by and large taken the virtues of that system for granted—society’s winners won, those politicians believed, because they were better people, because they had prevailed in a rational and supremely fair contest called free enterprise. The Populists were the ones who blasted those smug assumptions to pieces, forcing the country to acknowledge that ordinary Americans were being ruined by an economic system that in fact answered to no moral laws."

" There was Populism as its proponents understood it: a movement in which ordinary working people demanded democratic economic reforms. And there was Populism as its enemies characterized it: a dangerous movement of groundless resentment in which demagogues led the disreputable."

" the insults and accusations with which Populism was received in 1891 are alive and well. You can read them in best-selling books, watch them flashed on PowerPoints at prestigious foundation conferences ... Populist movements, they will tell you, are mob actions; reformers are bigots; their leaders are blatherskites; their followers are mentally ill, or ignorant, or uncouth at the very least. They are cranks; they are troublemakers; they are deplorables. And, yes, they still have hayseed in their hair."

"a highbrow contempt for ordinary Americans—is as virulent today as it was in the Victorian era."

" the Populists believed in progress and modernity as emphatically as did any big-city architect or engineer of their day ... the era’s great champions of protectionism were in fact big business and the Republicans. It was William Jennings Bryan’s Democrats who were the true-believing free-traders of the period. "

"The Pops did not fear government, as we are often told populists do; they wanted it to grow big and strong. The Pops did not hate ideas; they meant to spread knowledge to the farthest corners of the land. The Pops were not socially regressive; they were unique among the major parties of their time in boasting numerous female leaders. Again and again, upon investigation, the hateful tendencies that we are told make up this frightful worldview are either absent from historical Populism or are the opposite of what it stood and stands for, or else far more accurately describe the people who hated Populism and who have opposed it ever since the 1890s."

"Populism in its original formulation was profoundly, achingly democratic; it was also, by the standards of the time, anti-demagogic, pro-enlightenment, and pro-equality. "

" denunciations of populism like the ones we hear so frequently nowadays are part of a long tradition of pessimism about popular sovereignty and democratic participation. "

"The Republicans ... prevailed. They contrived to crush Bryan’s challenge and, in so doing, to build a lasting stereotype of reform as folly. The word with which they expressed that stereotype: “populism.” "

"Then as now, consensus among elites was the primary weapon of the anti-populist resistance ...  the harmony with which the nation’s press came together against the Democratic challenger. Similar unanimity reigned in fashionable churches and in prestige academia."

"“Populism” was a word used to express the horror of seeing hierarchies collapse and the lowly clamber to places where they did not belong. "

"anti-populism is always a brief for elite and even aristocratic power, an attack on the democratic tradition itself. "

"The larger message of anti-populism, regardless of where it comes from on the political spectrum, is always one of complacency. Elites rule us because elites should rule us. They are in charge because they are the best."

"the real task before us today: to rescue from the enormous condescension of the comfortable the one political tradition that has a chance of reversing our decades-long turn to the right."

https://harpers.org/archive/2020/04/how-the-anti-populists-stopped-bernie-sanders/

sidd

Pmt111500

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #291 on: April 15, 2020, 08:21:26 PM »
David Pakman made a poll in his YouTube channel asking if not voting Biden is irresponsible now when Bernie has dropped out.
59% said yes
30% said no
11% stand on the fence.
Comments on the poll are rather nice. Almost felt like some European discussion on politics. Doesn't look too good on Biden.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2020, 09:50:05 PM by Pmt111500 »

The Walrus

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #292 on: April 16, 2020, 03:46:45 PM »
David Pakman made a poll in his YouTube channel asking if not voting Biden is irresponsible now when Bernie has dropped out.
59% said yes
30% said no
11% stand on the fence.
Comments on the poll are rather nice. Almost felt like some European discussion on politics. Doesn't look too good on Biden.

I think that Biden will make up the difference among the independent voters who moved over to the Trump side in 2016.  Many of the Obama voters will come back to support Biden.  As long as a strong leftish third-party candidate joins the fray, he should do fine.

Sciguy

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #293 on: April 16, 2020, 10:55:45 PM »
Based on the results of the Wisconsin primary held on April 7th, Democrats are willing to risk thier lives to throw Trump out of office.

Republicans tried mightily to suppress the voter turnout in the Wisconsin primary election, using courts (including the US Supreme Court) to deny the Democrat Governor's requests to delay the elections to June due to the Covid crisis.  Their efforts failed as the Democrats won a key state Supreme Court race.

Needless to say, this is a very bad sign for Trump's re-election, as Wisconsin is a key battleground state.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-wisconsin/results-of-wisconsins-chaotic-election-to-be-made-public-on-monday-idUSKCN21V0QR

Quote
April 13, 2020
In upset for Republicans, liberal ousts Trump-backed judge for Wisconsin Supreme Court seat
John Whitesides

(Reuters) - Liberal challenger Jill Karofsky won a hotly contested race for the Wisconsin Supreme Court on Monday, beating a conservative incumbent in state elections marred by court challenges and worries about health risks from the coronavirus pandemic.

Quote
The tumultuous process in Wisconsin, which featured an explosion in absentee balloting and long lines of voters braving health risks and stay-at-home orders, was seen as a potential preview of the national election in November if the pandemic lingers.

Quote
State Republicans had warned of possible fraud and administrative issues if the elections were delayed. But Democrats said Republicans primarily wanted to keep down turnout in the race, particularly in Democratic-dominated urban areas such as Milwaukee, where a lack of workers meant the closure of all but five of the city’s usual 180 polling places.

Karofsky more than doubled Kelly’s vote totals in Milwaukee, and outpaced recent Democratic performances in many swing and conservative counties in an encouraging sign for Democrats looking toward the Nov. 3 general election. Trump’s upset win in Wisconsin in 2016 helped propel him to the White House.

In Winnebago County in east-central Wisconsin, for example, Trump beat Democrat Hillary Clinton by 7 percentage points in the 2016 presidential election, but Karofsky won by more than 8 percentage points.

Quote
Democratic National Committee Chairman Tom Perez said in a Monday call with reporters the decision to hold in-person voting last week was “voter suppression on steroids,” forcing thousands to choose between casting a ballot or staying at home to avoid infection.

Pmt111500

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #294 on: April 17, 2020, 07:09:53 AM »
Foolish to think there are independents, since everything is politics, they say.

sidd

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #295 on: April 17, 2020, 08:32:39 AM »
Greens reaching for sanders supporters: Online contributions to the Green Party tripled after Sanders’ capitulated

"offering Sanders supporters a “home” that is fully-aligned with their core issues, such as bold action to avert a climate catastrophe, implementing Improved and Expanded Medicare-For-All, and abolishing student debt ... expressed sympathy for Sanders supporters who had been “abused and marginalized” by the corporate-leaning Democratic National Committee leadership"

"It’s time for people to see that backing progressive candidates in the ‘Democratic’ Party is a dead end"

https://www.blackagendareport.com/sanders-supporters-pledge-demexit-and-greenenter-make-home-party-shares-their-core-values

sidd

blumenkraft

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #296 on: April 17, 2020, 09:06:56 AM »
If i was a US voter, voting third party might be the way i would go.

If you really want to generate leverage, a third party needs to have substantial support (15-20% at least). Dems and Reps both must be scared loosing too many votes this way. This is the only way you get them to listen.

The downside with this approach is that it might (likely will) help the orange fascist to get reelected.

The Walrus

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #297 on: April 17, 2020, 03:49:22 PM »
Many people downplay the influence that third parties have had in recent elections, but the opposite is true.  While not amassing anywhere near the 19% Ross Perot received in 1992, helping Bill Clinton become president, or the 14% (and 45 EVs) George Wallace amassed in 1968, vaulting Richard Nixon into the Oval Office, third party candidates have influence two recent elections.  The first was 2000.  Even though Ralph Nader received less than 3% of the vote, it was enough to influence the outcome in Florida, and ultimately, the election.  More recently in 2016, Gary Johnson was polling close to 10%, before falling to just over 3% in the final tally.  Had people not jumped ship and voted for Trump, Hillary Clinton would likely be president.  Those are the voters that the Democrats need to win back in 2020.

Freegrass

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #298 on: April 17, 2020, 11:33:33 PM »
If i was a US voter, voting third party might be the way i would go.

If you really want to generate leverage, a third party needs to have substantial support (15-20% at least). Dems and Reps both must be scared loosing too many votes this way. This is the only way you get them to listen.

The downside with this approach is that it might (likely will) help the orange fascist to get reelected.
The Tea Party completely changed the GOP, so what you need is a very progressive congress. Voting third party is a wasted vote. I do think a third party will decide the election. Most likely the Libertarian party. I think they will get a lot of votes from disgruntled republicans who can't vote for a Democrat.

Let's hope the Green party doesn't take it away again from the Democrats like they did in 2016. Ironically, that would be very bad for the climate if Trump got reelected with the help from the Green Party...
« Last Edit: April 18, 2020, 01:09:26 AM by Freegrass »
And so we pray...

When factual science is in conflict with our beliefs, we cuddle up in our own delusional fantasy where everything starts making sense again...

TerryM

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #299 on: April 18, 2020, 12:45:06 AM »

sidd

I'd prefer a Green vote to staying at home & I can't bring myself to support either of the major party selections.


With a gun at my head I'd opt for Trump over Biden based primarily on voting for the Devil that I know.


What will Biden be studying for the next 4 years? I can't imagine him getting the best of xi, Putin, or even Johnson or Duarty.


As President Trump has been an ignorant bully.
What will Biden be like in 4 months or 4 years?


Who will Biden's Oliver North be?


Wili's point that Trump hasn't started any large shoot-em-ups is also a consideration. He may end up starting one, but at least we know that war isn't his first choice.
Terry