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Author Topic: Elections 2020 USA  (Read 17923 times)

sidd

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #300 on: April 18, 2020, 08:03:37 AM »
Kruse at politico on Trump:

"Trump has built an astonishingly consistent record of surviving crises, of dodging the comeuppance everyone assumes is coming his way, and then turning seeming calamity into his next great opportunity—and emerging not just intact but emboldened."

"Trump’s aghast critics see a president backed into a corner, desperate and unmanned, in a frantic, final freefall. But people who’ve watched him for years, who’ve witnessed the dizzying pivots, the great escapes, the gobsmacking victories in the face of arguably more unforgiving audiences than American voters—what they see is Trump deploying tools and tactics that have worked before and could work again. "

"Because the contest at hand is not only between Trump and the ravages of Covid-19, or Trump and “Democrat” governors, or Trump and any of the reporters spread out in the seats in the briefing room these evenings at the White House. All of it is part of the larger war for Trump between the numbers and the narrative."

"he’s pretty darn media-savvy, and he’s working this right now almost brilliantly to the extent that he realizes the value of putting himself out there every day"

"He’s spinning this every day now: 2 million would have died if it wasn’t for me"

"Attention can be good or bad, but a central gambit of the life of Trump is that that’s actually not true. That it’s all good. That attention is power. That if you’re watching, he’s winning."

" “Americans are suckers for a good story,” he said. “Donald Trump is going to give ‘em a good story.” "

" Don’t believe Trump can win? “Talk to President Hillary Clinton,” "

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2020/04/17/donald-trump-escape-crisis-bankruptcy-coronavirus-casino-trumpology-183513

I've been watching Trump since the 80s when he was just another brash young new york tax cheat. Fascination of the horrible, i suppose. His rise tells more about society than himself. If you're watching, he's winning.

sidd

kassy

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #301 on: April 18, 2020, 01:06:37 PM »
re 299: you could argue he other way if you would think about the supreme court?

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Neven

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #302 on: April 18, 2020, 03:00:08 PM »
Let's hope the Green party doesn't take it away again from the Democrats like they did in 2016. Ironically, that would be very bad for the climate if Trump got reelected with the help from the Green Party...

Except that Jill Stein took more votes away from Trump than Clinton, and that a lot of people who voted for Stein, would've stayed at home otherwise.

But even if what you say, is true, this means that if the Green Party is that powerful, maybe the Democratic nominee would be wise to try and win their votes by offering them something? They can't, because concentrated wealth comes first.

Talking about irony.
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The Walrus

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #303 on: April 18, 2020, 04:03:21 PM »
If i was a US voter, voting third party might be the way i would go.

If you really want to generate leverage, a third party needs to have substantial support (15-20% at least). Dems and Reps both must be scared loosing too many votes this way. This is the only way you get them to listen.

The downside with this approach is that it might (likely will) help the orange fascist to get reelected.
The Tea Party completely changed the GOP, so what you need is a very progressive congress. Voting third party is a wasted vote. I do think a third party will decide the election. Most likely the Libertarian party. I think they will get a lot of votes from disgruntled republicans who can't vote for a Democrat.

Let's hope the Green party doesn't take it away again from the Democrats like they did in 2016. Ironically, that would be very bad for the climate if Trump got reelected with the help from the Green Party...

The Green Party had very little effect on the election.  The only state that Clinton had a good chance to win without Jill Stein in the race would have been Michigan.  Two other states were decided by less than the total number of votes cast for the Green Party.  The Green vote would need to split 87/13 in favor of Clinton, for her to win Wisconsin, and 95/5 to win Pennsylvania.  I seriously doubt that Clinton could possibly have won that great of a share of the Green vote.  The Libertarian party candidate, Gary Johnson, received three times the number of vote as Jill Stein, and had a greater effect on the outcome.  If you add all the Libertarian votes to Trump, and all the Green votes to Clinton, Trump would win the popular vote!  As I stated earlier, if the Libertarian voters had not gotten cold feet, and switched over to Trump at the last minute, Clinton would be president now.

Freegrass

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #304 on: April 18, 2020, 06:41:08 PM »
Let's hope the Green party doesn't take it away again from the Democrats like they did in 2016. Ironically, that would be very bad for the climate if Trump got reelected with the help from the Green Party...

Except that Jill Stein took more votes away from Trump than Clinton, and that a lot of people who voted for Stein, would've stayed at home otherwise.

But even if what you say, is true, this means that if the Green Party is that powerful, maybe the Democratic nominee would be wise to try and win their votes by offering them something? They can't, because concentrated wealth comes first.

Talking about irony.
You're arguing politics in a binary vote...

You're either with us, or against us... Remember that one?

All those who went out to vote in 2016 for the Green party hated Hillary so much that they lost sight of the consequences of a Trump presidency...

I vote extreme left, for the Belgian marxists party PVDA. But in my heart I'm a social liberal. Basic income for all and small government. But Belgium isn't America... We don't have a two party system here.

Should there be a more party system in America? HELL YEAH! But that's not todays fight...

What American progressives need now is a progressive congress. The president has always been a puppet, so vote for the right puppet masters!
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blumenkraft

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #305 on: April 18, 2020, 06:46:49 PM »
Basic income for all and small government.

Those are contradictory, mate. :P

Quote
Should there be a more party system in America? HELL YEAH! But that's not todays fight...

I tend to agree (at least i was until recently), but what's the timeline and strategy? What's the leverage?
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Freegrass

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #306 on: April 18, 2020, 07:04:02 PM »
If i was a US voter, voting third party might be the way i would go.

If you really want to generate leverage, a third party needs to have substantial support (15-20% at least). Dems and Reps both must be scared loosing too many votes this way. This is the only way you get them to listen.

The downside with this approach is that it might (likely will) help the orange fascist to get reelected.
The Tea Party completely changed the GOP, so what you need is a very progressive congress. Voting third party is a wasted vote. I do think a third party will decide the election. Most likely the Libertarian party. I think they will get a lot of votes from disgruntled republicans who can't vote for a Democrat.

Let's hope the Green party doesn't take it away again from the Democrats like they did in 2016. Ironically, that would be very bad for the climate if Trump got reelected with the help from the Green Party...

The Green Party had very little effect on the election.  The only state that Clinton had a good chance to win without Jill Stein in the race would have been Michigan.  Two other states were decided by less than the total number of votes cast for the Green Party.  The Green vote would need to split 87/13 in favor of Clinton, for her to win Wisconsin, and 95/5 to win Pennsylvania.  I seriously doubt that Clinton could possibly have won that great of a share of the Green vote.  The Libertarian party candidate, Gary Johnson, received three times the number of vote as Jill Stein, and had a greater effect on the outcome.  If you add all the Libertarian votes to Trump, and all the Green votes to Clinton, Trump would win the popular vote!  As I stated earlier, if the Libertarian voters had not gotten cold feet, and switched over to Trump at the last minute, Clinton would be president now.
I don't want to relitigate the last elections. Smarter people than me wrote heaps of books about that.

I think the Libertarian party will play a key role in this years elections. More so than the Green party, because the trouble is on the right! Those who can't vote for Trump, or a democrat, will vote Libertarian, and IMHO that will be the birth of a viable third party in America.

You'll have the extreme right wing fascists - like we had here for a long time in Europe - voting for the Trump party, and "moderates" voting for the libertarian party. This leaves the door open for the Democratic party to become more progressive.

The Green party would kill that dream...
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Freegrass

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #307 on: April 18, 2020, 07:17:44 PM »
Basic income for all and small government.
Those are contradictory, mate. :P
Not really. In Belgium we have unemployment money, pensions, disability, sick leave, and so many more payments. All those will disappear with basic income. You could get rid of the entire administration that keeps track of all those unemployed or sick people. You just give people money, good (mental)healthcare, and education. For anything else, people will be free from government oversight.

But now we're going OT again...  ;)
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wili

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #308 on: April 18, 2020, 08:12:55 PM »
https://www.rawstory.com/2020/04/the-gop-has-become-a-death-cult/

GOP has become a death cult

American conservatism—the so-called “culture of life”—worships annihilation.
"A force de chercher de bonnes raisons, on en trouve; on les dit; et après on y tient, non pas tant parce qu'elles sont bonnes que pour ne pas se démentir." Choderlos de Laclos "You struggle to come up with some valid reasons, then cling to them, not because they're good, but just to not back down."

blumenkraft

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #309 on: April 22, 2020, 06:31:24 PM »
So, the GOP is overtaking the Dems on the left by airing the 'Pelosi ice-cream' ad.

The DNC is overtaking the GOP on the right by airing the 'scapegoat China' ad.

And a conservative group is airing anti Trump ads, endorsing Joe Biden.

This might seem Kafkaesque at the first look. Looking at Biden's policies though, this makes total sense. The US can still have its structural racism, its libertarian economy, its oligarchy with a more likable face. Little will change with Biden, but he at least doesn't speak the silent parts out loud all the time.

Doh!
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Pmt111500

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #310 on: April 23, 2020, 05:17:36 AM »
Well, stealing a Kenyan Nursery Song is par on course in US Elections

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Tom_Mazanec

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #311 on: April 23, 2020, 12:42:21 PM »
Pmt111500

That's another entry in my "Evolution of the Lion Sleeps Tonight" post back on the Good Music thread!
« Last Edit: April 23, 2020, 12:55:40 PM by Tom_Mazanec »
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The Walrus

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #312 on: May 01, 2020, 06:27:53 PM »
An interesting development is occurring with the IBD/TIPP polling.  Biden and Trump are in a dead heat.  Many may not remember, but this is the same poll that showed Clinton and Trump in a dead heat on the eve of the 2016 election.  A month ago, this same poll had Biden ahead by 6 points. 

Ken Feldman

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #313 on: May 01, 2020, 08:50:05 PM »
The shape of the stimulus package to recover from the recession would probably be very different if the GOP holds the White House and Senate than if the Democrats can take those offices.  Consider whether the government decides to invest in renewables or instead nationalize (I'm sorry, take an equity interest in) oil companies.

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/04/25/joe-biden-green-stimulus-207848

Quote
Biden wants a new stimulus 'a hell of a lot bigger' than $2 trillion

In an interview, the 2020 candidate courts the progressive left by calling for a huge, new green infrastructure bill—while hammering banks, and Trump.

Joe Biden wants a more progressive approach to economic stimulus legislation than Washington has taken so far, including much stricter oversight of the Trump administration, much tougher conditions on business bailouts and long-term investments in infrastructure and climate that have so far been largely absent from congressional debates.

Quote
Still, Biden suggested that after four rounds of legislation designed primarily to stanch the economic bleeding, the next round should include more forward-looking investments that could help the economy start to recover and grow once the virus is contained. He suggested a “trillion-dollar infrastructure program that can be implemented really rapidly,” as well as “dealing with environmental things that create good-paying jobs.”

Trump and Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell have suggested that “green stimulus” would be a nonstarter with Republicans, but Biden said investments in light rail, clean drinking water, and half a million electric vehicle chargers on the nation’s highways could help retool the economy for the future.