Elections 2020 USA

[Pmt111500]

Joe Biden NEEDS To Stop Talking

Great... Do we get a presidente who's mute after el presidente who's nonsense... I guess that's not worse.

[kassy]

So you have to be 35 to run for president. Why not add a rule you can not run again after 70?
And possibly limit the time you can be in senate or congress.

[SteveMDFP]

Joe Biden NEEDS To Stop Talking

https://www.youtube .com/watch?v=0z9Ckr1ZUpI

I think posting just a video link is poor discourse for a discussion forum.  It's like posting just an article link, with no explanation or summary.

We have a thread for such bare links.  Maybe youtube video links should be relegated to such a thread.

[blumenkraft]

I respect your opinion about videos, Steve. Scroll by them any time if you wish.

Videos are a widely-used communication technique these days. Therefore i don't deem video format as inappropriate content.

You are, of course, free to open a dedicated youtube thread if you feel the need for such a thing.

And i recommend watching the video anyway. It's amusing if you are into politics and deliveries an outside perspective.

It's like posting just an article link, with no explanation or summary.

About that, are you aware of the ancillary copyright for press publishers?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancillary_copyright_for_press_publishers

It's a law that prohibits copy&pase. In the proper meaning of the law it's a copyright infringement in some countries to do that.

[SteveMDFP]

I respect your opinion about videos, Steve. Scroll by them any time if you wish.

Videos are a widely-used communication technique these days. Therefore i don't deem video format as inappropriate content....

There's nothing wrong with providing a video link as part of a discussion.  But posting just a link with no context, no introduction, no explanation of why it's relevant -- that's inconsiderate of the time and bandwidth of the readership. 

It's exactly like posting just an article URL and nothing else.  Copyright law is irrelevant to this issue.

[sidd]

Re: a link with no context, no introduction, no explanation of why it's relevant -- that's inconsiderate of the time and bandwidth of the readership. 

Precisely. I usually skip those.

sidd

[sidd]

Pennsylvania in play: small towns turning republican

"I don’t get the Democratic Party anymore."

"a traditionally Democratic town off the I-81 corridor has shifted right along with Carbondale, Lackawanna County, and much of northeast Pennsylvania. While Democrats still outnumber Republicans in the state by about 780,000 voters, that edge has narrowed over the last four years as the GOP gained ground in once-safe Democratic bastions in northeast and southwest Pennsylvania. "

“We were always a Democratic town, always ... But the town has become very, very conservative”

"places like Carbondale are trending even more pro-Trump than four years ago."

" “My father was a lifelong Democrat, 46 years in the union, and he said, ‘You’re going to register as a Democrat.’ And I said, ‘OK,’ ”  ... Mazza switched this year."

"Many residents work about 20 miles away in Scranton, Joe Biden’s childhood hometown "

“No one talks to each other anymore. Unless it’s on Facebook and then it’s just people attacking one another.”

"Olyphant, like Carbondale, is a former coal town where Democrats are losing voters, including Mitchko. He became a Republican last year, after he and his wife lost their jobs ...  the company closed it in 2018 and shifted production to Mexico."

" “They call me fat racist,” Mitchko said, gesturing across the street to the house where Black Lives Matter and Mexican flags hung outside. "

"But even Biden supporters are nervous."

"For some residents here, Biden’s ties to nearby Scranton, which his family left when he was 10, actually make him less appealing."

“If he was crossing the street, I wouldn’t cross it to say hello to him ... What has he done for this region in 40 years in Washington?”

"a dozen Obama-Trump voters in the region, none planned to vote for Biden. Several are former elected Democrats who left the party."

“There are very few people in this area who don’t have a family member or who haven’t themselves had a job go overseas,”

https://www.inquirer.com/politics/pennsylvania/carbondale-pennsylvania-trump-biden-2020-election-20200808.html

I know that region well, Terruso is right, no love for Biden in Scranton.

sidd

[Tor Bejnar]

"... He became a Republican last year, after he and his wife lost their jobs ...  the company closed it in 2018 and shifted production to Mexico."

Funny () that this couple lost their jobs in 2018 and 'blame' the Democrats.  (Dems didn't even control the House of Representatives that year.)

But there is often a disconnect between why we do something and what we say was the reason for doing it.  'Social pressure' (what you think the neighbors think) is powerful stuff - it made 'everybody' (in some localities) a Democrat 80 years ago and 'everybody' (in those localities) a Republican today.

[sidd]

Re: blame democrats for job loss to mexico in 2018

I know this neighbourhood. They been beaten like rented mules all their lives. They voted straight democrat ticket all their years. They got kicked in the face. Again, and again, and again.

So, now they going with the other gang of con artists.

Incidentally, that last description, "the other gang of con artists" is not mine. I got it from someone close to the area described, he lives bout fifty mile west of I-81.

sidd
 

[Florifulgurator]

I respect your opinion about videos, Steve. Scroll by them any time if you wish.

Videos are a widely-used communication technique these days. Therefore i don't deem video format as inappropriate content....

There's nothing wrong with providing a video link as part of a discussion.  But posting just a link with no context, no introduction, no explanation of why it's relevant -- that's inconsiderate of the time and bandwidth of the readership. 

It's exactly like posting just an article URL and nothing else.  Copyright law is irrelevant to this issue.

So I took some random samplings of the video.

Biden's cognitive decline? Trumpist projection!
Biden is/was a stutterer, which says nothing about cognitive ability. There's a difference between  stumbling over the word "fitness" like Biden in the video - and not being able to pronounce "Yosemite" or confusing origins with "oranges", etc. etc, like Trump.

You don't have to know much about stuttering to see the fundamental difference. A journalist who doesn't is likely a GOP propagandist or simply unqualified.

Biden’s stutter, which he has said has affected him since childhood, is almost always undetectable for those who aren’t looking for it. But that doesn’t mean that it isn’t constantly making its presence known to the speaker himself, making it difficult to form certain sounds — a predicament only exacerbated further by nerves.

For people with stutters, it's not just difficulty with speaking that can be a major frustration in their lives, it’s the negative cultural perception they must deal with as well.

https://thehill.com/changing-america/respect/accessibility/471707-how-joe-bidens-gaffes-have-affected-his-campaign-and

My head will shake on a really bad stutter. People have casually asked whether I have Parkinson’s. I curl my toes inside my shoes or tap my foot as a distraction to help me get out of it, a behavior that I’ve repeated so often, it’s become a tic.

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2020/01/joe-biden-stutter-profile/602401/

[blumenkraft]

Biden's cognitive decline? Trumpist projection!

Martin, i get it. You like Biden. But calling people with eyes and ears trumpists is not gonna help you making your point.

Don't get me wrong, i would actually like to see Biden win even though he is not at all someone who represents my political views. But at least he is a democrat (lower d democrat), not a fascist. This alone is a huge upgrade for the US. And comes with actual material benefits for people's lives. I can even laugh at him. When i see trump there is nothing but fremdschämen (extreme feeling of cringe on behalf of others). I can't believe there are people looking at him speaking and say 'yeah, that's my guy'. I will not understand that in 100 years.

But if you think Biden is all there i think you are the one deliberately looking away.

Come on man. *awkward fake laughter*

[Neven]

But at least he is a democrat (lower d democrat), not a fascist.

He's in the same club as Trump, so if Trump is a fascist, then so is he.

[blumenkraft]

Neven, would you agree with the following statement?

The US always checked some of the 14 characteristics of fascism, but not all. Only with trump, we have them all checked.

Link >> https://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/fasci14chars.html

[Neven]

I neither agree or disagree, because it's silly.

Trump and Biden both serve concentrated wealth, and this inevitably leads to forms of fascism. Trump is just the ugly face of it. Replacing him with a pretty face, will change absolutely nothing.

It's all a scam and a charade.

[blumenkraft]

Defining what we are talking about seems silly to you? Why is that?

[Neven]

Because the definitions are part of the charade.

[blumenkraft]

What isn't a charade then? Is there anything in politics you find definable?

[Pmt111500]

What isn't a charade then? Is there anything in politics you find definable?

Democrats of USA are encompassing a wide variety of political spectrum, thus they're not easily identifiable. Most of the leadership are though definitely right-wing in European terms. As is Biden. The lower level diplomatic discussions may seem to be political middle ground. No way this happens with republicans who are pretty much a convergent evolution with some jihadists.

[blumenkraft]

Yep. Not seeing a difference is deliberate. You have to look away very hard.

[Neven]

Until 'limitless concentrated wealth' becomes a part of the political conversation, everything is a charade.

[blumenkraft]

Let's look at what happened today. Only today:

Trump actively destroying public institutions (the USPS in order to suppress votes), telling openly that he is about to steal the elections, walking out of a press conference (dude doesn't even know what accountability means), homeland security snitching people from the streets, giving billions to his goons (AGAIN), neo-nazi added to the staff, etc.

Neven, if you really think that would be the same with a Democratic president, i don't know what to say anymore.

[Neven]

Neven, if you really think that would be the same with a Democratic president, i don't know what to say anymore.

That says more about you than about me. Keep focussing on the optics.

[blumenkraft]

Optics? Destroying public institutions, deeming POTUS being above the law, refusing accountability, introducing Gestapo methods, that's all optics for you. Really?

Good to know, Neven.

Ah, and BTW, good job moving the goalpost and not answering my question there.

[Freegrass]

You're right Neven, the rich keep getting richer no matter who's sitting in the oval office. Racism, guns, abortion, crime, etc. are all just distractions so they can keep doing the bad shit without anyone paying attention. When people are divided it's much easier to make them swallow all the BS. MSNBC and Fucks News are just tools from the rich to help with that divide.

Obama, the democratic "Saint", killed thousands of people illegally with drones. But who ever talks about that?

People need to wake the fuck up!!! Our planet is dying, but let's talk about racism... Best distraction ever! Because racism will always be around...

What Hartig largely ignores is how flaws in the existing targeted killing policy, crafted under President Barack Obama, helped pave the way for President Donald Trump to kill more civilians.

“Based on initial reports, it’s actually not nearly as bad as we might have feared,” Hartig writes of the proposal, which would make it easier for the United States to kill more people off the battlefield with less oversight, greater secrecy, and no due process. Hartig notes that the plan is more tempered than Trump’s campaign vow to “take out” not only Islamic State members but also their families. That’s a perilously low bar to assess a dismantling of already insufficient rules for a program that has killed thousands of people in countries including Pakistan, Somalia, and Yemen—the vast majority of them during Obama’s presidency. Debates rage over how many of those were killed lawfully and how many were civilians.

The Trump administration proposal, reportedly advanced by his top national security advisers, would scrap protections that Obama approved in 2013 for lethal targeting, including the core requirement that the target pose a “continuing, imminent threat” to American lives. In an exclusive New York Times report, the Trump team rationalizes that dropping this safeguard will allow the US to kill not only the people it deems to be in the top echelon of a terrorist group but also those it considers lower-level members, even if they are far from any battlefield, and in countries such as Nigeria and the Philippines where the US is not already conducting such strikes. That Obama rule was already a fig leaf, as I explain shortly, but it may have been better than nothing.

https://www.hrw.org/news/2017/09/26/how-obamas-drones-rulebook-enabled-trump

[Pmt111500]

Neven, if you really think that would be the same with a Democratic president, i don't know what to say anymore.

That says more about you than about me. Keep focussing on the optics.

Ok you're pretty hard line leftie.

True it would be better if US would be a true democracy and not some country leaning to fascism. As they've not realised there can be a political left, I'd still choose the party which won't openly endorse fascism, as true fascism silences the soundbites of the political spectrum. With the right-wing democrats, like Biden, we can hear some of the voices of the left in US. It's not much better but it's not worse, if we choose to see (parts of) US as a potential ally.

Third party would've been nice, if that could live in a federalist country

[blumenkraft]

Ok you're pretty hard line leftie.

See, this is exactly the reason why i shoot against people like Jimmy Dore or Krystal Ball so hard. They make lefties like Neven believe the real and only enemy is the DNC. And partly i agree, the DNC as is stands in the way of the progressives. But the conservatives in the DNC are losing. The electorate gets younger and more diverse. Now we see progressives win elections! That is something. They win as Democrats. The DNC can be used as a vessel for them. Because, well, there ain't no third party.

This upcoming election is not left vs. right! It's democracy vs. fascism. Ball does a great job hiding that while siding with fascists like Tucker Carlson.

The Hill Rising is funded for that reason only - by a trump goon. Go figure.

[Pmt111500]

Yea, the dnc is not very democratic, but more so than the current system being installed over the pond.

[Neven]

I'm not a leftie. And I would never choose the party which secretly endorses fascism.

Trump is the symptom of something bigger. Biden and his ilk are very much part of that. Supporting Biden is supporting the next Trump.

If that's not your jumping-off point, you're going into labyrinth that is very difficult to get out of. You become part of that labyrinth and trap other people with you

[bbr2315]

I'm not a leftie. And I would never choose the party which secretly endorses fascism.

Trump is the symptom of something bigger. Biden and his ilk are very much part of that. Supporting Biden is supporting the next Trump.

If that's not your jumping-off point, you're going into labyrinth that is very difficult to get out of. You become part of that labyrinth and trap other people with you

100%+++

[The Walrus]

Fascism appears to be the most overused (and misused) word in politics today.  The only fascist party in the U.S. is the American nazi party.  No other party comes close to the fascist ideas of bygone times.  Democrats calling republicans fascists is akin to republicans calling democrats communists.  They are both trying to vilify their opponents.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jul/31/is-this-fascism-no-could-it-become-fascism-yes

[sidd]

Re: I'm not a leftie

Coulda fooled me ...

sidd

[blumenkraft]

I'm not a leftie. And I would never choose the party which secretly endorses fascism.

So let's do what the openly fascist party helps. That makes sense.

If that's not your jumping-off point, you're going into labyrinth that is very difficult to get out of. You become part of that labyrinth and trap other people with you

What does that even mean?

Hey, Neven, the US exists! And there is an election coming up.

[blumenkraft]

(and misused) word

Google it!

[bluice]

Trump is the symptom of something bigger.

Rather Trump is a symptom because we see nationalist/populist leaders gaining popularity around the world.

Intelligent people sometimes overanalyze politics and with all due respect I feel you are deep down that rabbit hole. Instead of looking for hidden agendas it's often more useful to hear what the politicians say, see what they do and know some background history.

When Trump wants to MAGA he is trying to make America something he feels it should be. So what could that mean? Trump doesn't give much value to immigrants, minorities or women. He openly discredits the democratic process and his political opponents. He opposes any kind of international cooperation unless it in his view directly benefits America (byebye AGW mitigation).

In general Trump, like Bolsonaro, sees the environment and other peoples as resources to exploit. Trump has lowered taxes for the rich while dismantling health care for the rest. Trump's draining the swamp has meant public offices for the family and fellow billionaires.

There's no reason to read between the lines because Trump openly says/does all these things.

[Florifulgurator]

You all forgot about the planet's carbon cycle. That's my political touchstone. F# left vs. right.

The fossil carbon thing is what divides the global oligarchy in two discernible camps. If you refuse to chose on simplistic polito-logical grounds you have lost the ground.

[Tom_Mazanec]

Because, well, there ain't no third party.

Why not. b? As I understand it other countries can have third parties (and even fourth, fifth...). What is different about America?

[blumenkraft]

There is no parliamentary system in the US, Tom.

Also, in the US, politicians' campaigns are getting paid by constituency directly.

Those factors don't allow for a system we have in Europe. Without parliament, no coalitions. Without strict anti-corruption measures, you have the wrong incentives.

[kassy]

Re: I'm not a leftie

Coulda fooled me ...

sidd

Well to safe the world we need to know what destroys it and this is capitalism/concentrated wealth.

Of course most of us in the west are very conditioned that capitalism is a good thing.

Theoretically we could have many different shades of capitalism but we have this exploit to the hilt version instead of a benign one were everyone is happily competing while not destroying the planet.

So where does that leave us? Wanting a future for our children makes you a leftie now and that should be weird. But will people notice?

Both president options are serving this system. Etc.

[blumenkraft]

The Biden campaign has a solid climate plan (yes, i know not enough blah).

Trump promises to cut down on environmental regulations and prop up coal and FF.

And those are just the facts at hand.

No difference at all for some though.

[bluice]

The Biden campaign has a solid climate plan (yes, i know not enough blah).

Trump promises to cut down on environmental regulations and prop up coal and FF.

And those are just the facts at hand.

No difference at all for some though.

Exactly. No need to find hidden meanings there.

[Freegrass]

How did we get here? Because the Democrats saved us? As much as I hate Trump, I always said he was the best man to destroy America. If Biden gets elected, we will be right back where we were 12 years ago.

Would I rather have Biden over Trump? Sure, if I were an American. But I'm a European, and so it's time to begin the Eurasian age. America is toast anyway. Trump will only accelerate that.

Do you really think the planet will be saved with a Biden presidency? I don't think so. The poor will get some scraps again while the rich will keep getting richer. Four more years of Trump is the only way to destroy the American system of greedy capitalism. We have to go through the valley first before we can get out of the hole.

[Florifulgurator]

The Biden campaign has a solid climate plan (yes, i know not enough blah).

Trump promises to cut down on environmental regulations and prop up coal and FF.

And those are just the facts at hand.

No difference at all for some though.

Exactly. No need to find hidden meanings there.

Exactly. Plain empiricism. Who equates Biden and Trump hasn't yet got the message from the carbon cycle. (Or is a Trumputin asset.)

[Florifulgurator]

Do you really think the planet will be saved with a Biden presidency?

Not necessarily. But a Trump presidency will certainly accelerate destruction and very likely push the planet (and human society) into the abyss. No climbing out of it later, against the avalanche of falling rubble of a crumbling civilization.

Four more years of Trump is the only way to destroy the American system of greedy capitalism. We have to go through the valley first before we can get out of the hole.

It is a maso-populist death wish. The time for that has run out. Ask Greta...

A pseudointellectual named Jimmy Dore had the same stupid theory. He conveniently forgot about the Supreme Court (which has decades of repercussions). Trump will not destroy the "system". He will make it worse and harden it against any democratic checks and balances (however imperfect they are in practise). Swamp the drain... Trumputin is the f#ing fossil system.

If e.g. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez is your polit hero: She would have zero chance of becoming (vice) president after a 2nd Trump term. If you like her, first vote Biden, then make it impossible for Biden to ignore her. That of course needs getting engaged, and not just complain and parrot (geno)suicidal armchair politologist theories.

[Pmt111500]

Looks like Kamala Harris might be the first female president for US unless Drumpf gets re-elected. No doubt republicans want to see her birth certificate now. It's though rather easy for republicans to cheat in elections so this 'Horrible Harry' (Kamala means Horrible in finnish) won't get the chance to declare Biden dementic.

[blumenkraft]

[Bruce Steele]

Freegrass, Once upon a time Reagan “ was the best man to destroy America “ . The right wing still considers him a hero however.
 Trump has done plenty of damage to most of us here but somehow he still gets good ratings on the economy. The rich still like him and they will vote for him just like last time. Our national  debt has been a gift from the poor of the future to the rich of today.
 I voted Bernie in the primary because I thought the youth vote mattered. I am an old white guy however and I will have no problem voting for a Biden/Harris ticket. Lest the left is willing to perform another circular shooting squad like in 2016 it would behoove Dems and liberals alike to vote for the only chance we have to replace Trumputin with representatives that will at least entertain , and hopefully incorporate, the new left in decision making.
 If the left repeats the dumb decision to sit on their hands and hands this election over to the
Neonazi  again then the left deserves the knock on the door at midnight that will soon follow.

[The Walrus]

The 2016 election was not lost because the left stayed home.  Rather Clinton could not muster the black vote that Obama did.  The black vote dropped 4.5% from 2012 to 2016.  The DNC is trying to win that vote back with this pick.  By itself, that would be enough to defeat Trump in November.

[blumenkraft]

Well, if she wasn't a cop and BLM was a movement at the moment, i would agree, Walrus.

It's a wildcard, not a guarantee to win the black vote i think.

[Bruce Steele]

 So 2016 was about 55D 27R the rest third party for the youth vote which was similar to the 2012 republican spread with Romney. So if the left wants that spread to look different they need to get the youth vote out . Didn’t happen the last two elections. Try to get behind the ticket and hope the election will carry the house and senate. And pray for Ginsberg health.
 I watched the Biden/Harris vp speeches. I really liked the way Kamala modulated her voice. Speaking to an audience while controlling your voice the way she did is a real skill. Hillary was terrible at it although I still think she was far better qualified to serve as president than Trump. I am hoping Kamala will be President some day and how she speaks matters. As does what she says of course but she is VP now and Biden is who we vote for...
 

[I’M IN LOVE WITH A RAGER]

Well, if she wasn't a cop and BLM was a movement at the moment, i would agree

In this regard, I think the selection could actually come across as tone deaf at best and likely insulting to many young voters and activists. Consider the fact that the Dem VP is a former prosecutor who often went after young, black, non-violent offenders in her state for marijuana charges and then proceeded to use a racial stereotype joke involving her heritage to brag about marijuana use on the campaign trail in order to seem "with it" (though don't worry the DNC made sure to vote down any attempts at decriminalizing/legalizing it, so the hardball prosecutor still admitted criminal history). Similarly, she is extremely anti-gun, yet owned and carried a handgun for years. Rights for me, not for thee, I guess. Kamala is a very frustrating and hypocritical politician who I have very little respect for. As such, I think the pick was terrible and there are plenty of other, much better, less authoritarian female and PoC candidates that Biden could have sprung for. There is a realistic and justified potential that she may do more harm than good.