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sidd

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #450 on: August 14, 2020, 01:47:49 AM »
Anton at claremont review on the case for Trump and a path to victory: Republican party must move leftward on economics

"President Trump enjoys the overwhelming loyalty of Republican voters—but his hold on Republican donors, and especially officials, is much more tenuous. He ran against them and won—and most of them will never forgive him."

"President Trump already renegotiated two of our worst trade deals ... he’s reversed the China policy of the last four presidents combined. "

"disengaging from existing conflicts while not starting any new ones."

"there’s little wrong with President Trump that more Trump couldn’t solve. More populism. More nationalism. More patriotism. More law and order. More full-throated advocacy for the neglected American people, for the working class, for the Rust Belt and rural America, for religious believers and law-abiding gun owners. More defense of free speech against tech and corporate censorship and suppression, more support for his voters when they or their interests are viciously attacked. In short, more adherence to the 2016 agenda."

"Historically the most common division in any republic has been economic, with religion and culture providing the underlying bedrock of unity."

"The merest shred of cultural unity would seem so far out of reach as to be scarcely worth trying for ... Which leaves us with economics."

"How to do you reconcile—much less unify—a fundamentally rural, small-town and small-city manufacturing-agricultural economy with an urban and affluent-suburban finance-information-managerial economy? Especially when the profits of the latter so depend on strip-mining the resources—outsourcing the industries and replacing the labor—of the former?"

"The Democrats long ago abandoned “the common man”"

"What’s needed, then, is a Trumpist political party focused squarely on “old economy”—rural, manufacturing, and blue-collar interests. Which means, in most if not all cases, a party actively opposed to the program of the ruling class. If the Republican Party can become that, all to the good. If it can’t, it should go out of business."

"saving the Republican Party will require, in no small measure, moving it to the left economically."

"a party much friendlier to the interests of workers: the party of tight labor markets and rising wages, of reasonable worker safety and environmental regulations, of far-sighted government spending on infrastructure, and, above all, of industrial and trade policies that favor and encourage domestic manufacturing. Republican free-trade, low-tax, no-regulation dogma stopped serving the interests of at least half of the Republican voting base decades ago. The wing of the party that still sings from that hymnal today is nothing but a controlled-opposition adjunct of the ruling class. Its dogma will have to be smashed."

"to succeed the Republican Party needs to become more like the old Democratic Party—more worker-friendly, more concerned with wage and wealth inequality—but also the opposite of today’s Democratic Party: openly nationalistic on economics and trade, stalwartly traditional on morality and culture. If the Republicans can so transform themselves, they have a chance. If they cannot, then the party will have to be destroyed and replaced"

"Politically, Republicans would have to walk a very fine line: maximize their white support—especially in the Rust Belt and among those on the lower half of the income/education ladder—while actively campaigning for blue-collar, working- and lower middle-class black and Hispanic votes"

"the Republicans will need a new “message.” The one they’ve been using for the last two decades—essentially a fusion of the 1980 platform with pledges never to stop fighting in the Middle East—not only no longer inspires the party’s base, it positively repulses many of them."

https://claremontreviewofbooks.com/the-case-for-trump/

That phrase "a controlled-opposition adjunct of the ruling class" has been applied to the Democratic party as well ...

sidd

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #451 on: August 14, 2020, 03:54:14 PM »
Excellent post sidd.  Both parties have abandoned the working man, which have been the key to recent elections.  There is a ripe playing field for a third party to form and encompass these voters.  I seriously doubt the Republican party will do so.  Trump was able to win over many of these voters in 2016, but the party was not behind him.  After Trump, the GOP may just abandon them altogether.

Many in the Democratic party has lost sight of them also, moving towards a state-controlled economy.  The manufacturing unions, a long-standing Democratic stronghold, are no longer a party guarantee.  Biden and the centrists in the party have been able to keep many loyal to their cause.  However, they do not support the leftward movement of the party.

Forming a third party is inherently difficult in the U.S.  The obstacles put in place by the two majors are great.  The middle is less passionate and less unified than either end, and consequently, less likely to mobilize for a united party.  IMO, the best case for a third party formation, would be for the Democratic party to split into the leftist and centrists.  This would retain party infrastructure for fundraising and campaigning that a newly formed third party would lack.  The divide in the party is growing, as evident by the primary season this year.  The party has divided in the past (1860, 1968), and may do so again.  Unfortunately, third parties have never been able to last, eventually being absorbed into one of the two others.

SteveMDFP

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #452 on: August 14, 2020, 07:01:23 PM »
Well, if she wasn't a cop and BLM was a movement at the moment, i would agree

In this regard, I think the selection could actually come across as tone deaf at best and likely insulting to many young voters and activists. Consider the fact that the Dem VP is a former prosecutor who often went after young, black, non-violent offenders in her state for marijuana charges and then proceeded to use a racial stereotype joke involving her heritage to brag about marijuana use on the campaign trail in order to seem "with it" (though don't worry the DNC made sure to vote down any attempts at decriminalizing/legalizing it, so the hardball prosecutor still admitted criminal history). Similarly, she is extremely anti-gun, yet owned and carried a handgun for years. Rights for me, not for thee, I guess. Kamala is a very frustrating and hypocritical politician who I have very little respect for. As such, I think the pick was terrible and there are plenty of other, much better, less authoritarian female and PoC candidates that Biden could have sprung for. There is a realistic and justified potential that she may do more harm than good.

I can understand this position, but I'd like to offer a contrasting perspective.  Neither a prosecutor nor an attorney general has the luxury of ignoring or invalidating statutory law, whatever they think of it.  If the legislature passes a criminal statute, and a police officer arrests someone in violation, these individuals cannot have their charges dismissed on a blanket basis.

My understanding is that she has been an advocate for drug courts and mental health courts, which seek to divert cases out of criminal justice punishment.  These are inadequate efforts, but from the perspective of a prosecutor, that may be the best that can be done within the system.

As for owning a gun while advocating gun control, I see that as being analogous to a rich progressive who advocates for higher taxes on the wealthy while paying only the required tax.  It's not inconsistent.  Seeking a gun-free society is not in conflict with owning a gun while living in a society that is far from gun-free.

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #453 on: August 14, 2020, 07:38:12 PM »
As for owning a gun while advocating gun control, I see that as being analogous to a rich progressive who advocates for higher taxes on the wealthy while paying only the required tax.  It's not inconsistent.  Seeking a gun-free society is not in conflict with owning a gun while living in a society that is far from gun-free.

I like the logic in this one. Convinced!

Not convinced of the running mate. Just that point.

blumenkraft

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #454 on: August 14, 2020, 08:01:21 PM »
So that is an interesting ad! Sidd, Steve if you watch one youtube video this year, let it be this.

"If you break the sacred contract, the people make a revolution."

Ed Markey's new ad says "it's time to start asking what your country can do for you"



(Sorry, Kassy, i can't make a description of the message of this ad, i'm not Goethe. ;) )
« Last Edit: August 14, 2020, 08:07:35 PM by blumenkraft »

SteveMDFP

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #455 on: August 14, 2020, 08:27:28 PM »
So that is an interesting ad! Sidd, Steve if you watch one youtube video this year, let it be this.

"If you break the sacred contract, the people make a revolution."

Ed Markey's new ad says "it's time to start asking what your country can do for you"

It's a great ad, indeed.  I like Markey a lot.  I don't ordinarily pay much attention to communications with an obvious bias (e.g., any advertising), but this is really good.  I'll share it.

blumenkraft

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #456 on: August 14, 2020, 08:33:30 PM »
It's a great ad, indeed.  I like Markey a lot.  I don't ordinarily pay much attention to communications with an obvious bias (e.g., any advertising), but this is really good.  I'll share it.

Glad you watched it. This is how progressives get their message through. Running on pressuring Biden from the left, he has to move left. This will work!

FishOutofWater

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #457 on: August 15, 2020, 02:44:16 AM »
Biden was involved in legislation that helped increase the concentration of wealth and I agree with Neven about the underlying conditions that lead to fascism but obviously Neven does not live here because he does not get it that Trump is a pig fucker who must be removed from office before he kills us or starts a civil war.

Forget ideology. Trump is letting hundreds of thousands of people die because he is a mad man. The U.S. is one of the worst fucking places in tho world for the virus and the Republican areas like the Florida panhandle are COVID disaster areas because the idiots living there have been convinced that something as simple as wearing a face mask is taking away their freedoms, or worse, they believed that the whole thing was a hoax based on insane right wing conspiracy theories and Trump's ranting and raving.

I have temporarily lived next to Trumpers. They were hard core racists. Racism, not economics, is the driving force behind Trump's white working class support. Trump is completely fucking over working people now, but some still support him because of his racist policies.

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #458 on: August 15, 2020, 07:26:04 AM »
If you live in the US please do not get distracted by side issues. Yes Biden will not be a good president. That is more of a side issue at this point. I do not know if it is too late already but trump is setting the stage for the kind of fake elections dictators use. Another four years of trump destroying our country and installing his cronies and it will not matter how we vote in the future.  >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( :'( :'( :'( :'(

sidd

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #459 on: August 18, 2020, 12:52:58 AM »
Dayen at prospect: Farmers unhappy with Vilsack and Heitcamp on Biden team

"Business-friendly ag advisers emphasize trade, believing that promoting overseas markets will translate to prosperity for family farmers and ranchers. But “farmers do not export, Cargill exports,” Maxwell counters, arguing that Big Ag domination is a far greater challenge. If you don’t profit from what you produce, he reasons, more trade won’t fix the problem."

"Export strategies force farmers into monoculture crops and overproduction ... Small livestock producers are forced to sell low to concentrated meatpackers and watch as they pass on inflated prices to groceries, enjoying the middleman profits. “The big guys won’t process for the little guys and are putting the little guy out of business,”"

"over 80 percent of rural voters reject ag monopolies and factory farms. The Biden team, by toeing the corporate ag line, is “leaving votes on the table that perhaps they shouldn’t,” "

“You can talk to Vilsack and Heitkamp all you want, but more corporate control of ag is not the answer.”

"The biggest blow in the Trump years came when the U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA) rolled back rules that would have banned Big Ag retaliation against small farmers and given them stronger legal tools to prevent abuse. USDA chief Sonny Perdue, himself tied to chicken industry interests, then dissolved the agency that protects small farms"

"Perdue wrote the epitaph for the family farmer when he said at a dairy expo last year, “In America the big get bigger and the small go out.”"

" The top four hog firms control two-thirds of the market; the top four cattle firms, 85 percent. Ninety percent of all chickens are raised through the brutal “tournament” system, where farmers are pitted against one another. Producers specify how farmers must house, feed, and care for chicks, and the fattest ones get sold; farmers that lose the tournament get nothing ... Monopolists have grabbed a significant share of food profits. Farmers used to earn 37 cents of every retail dollar; now it’s down to 15."

“We’re being mined to make Big Money more big money.”

"After the election, Obama’s USDA (under Vilsack’s control) and the Justice Department set out on a five-city listening tour of farm country, hearing stories about Big Ag price discrimination, abuse of market power, and intimidation ...  no enforcement actions were taken, more mergers were approved, and GIPSA rules were delayed and ultimately weakened. "

“He did nothing, and Vilsack did nothing and the Department of Justice did nothing ... They totally betrayed us.”

“With who Heidi Heitkamp is, with the corporate hat on, it doesn’t look good.”

"Heitkamp was the top Senate recipient of funds from the crop production industry in the 2018 cycle, with over $247,000, and she received money from meatpacking giant Smithfield Foods and its Chinese-owned parent company WH Group. In 2018, Heitkamp voted against an amendment to the farm bill that would have added transparency to “checkoff” programs intended for agricultural marketing, which have become slush funds for lobbying organizations, used in campaigns that hurt family farmers."

"“The track record of Tom Vilsack is abysmal when it comes to independent family agriculture,” says Maxwell. In addition to his role disappointing farmers while at USDA, critics point to him taking a job as president and CEO of the U.S. Dairy Export Council just days after the end of Obama’s term."

“He is owned lock, stock, and barrel by Wall Street and the packers and the food companies,”

“the person that candidate Biden is listening to, has an eight-year commitment of not living up to those issues.”

“If you could have things processed locally, you bring back those economies, supporting the local hardware store and local schools, and money stays in the community,”

“We’ve become part of a secondhand economy,”

“We’re scared shitless. We cannot survive with the policy that exists. There is not going to be anything left of rural America.”

https://prospect.org/power/farmers-reject-bidens-pro-corporate-rural-advisers/

sidd

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #460 on: August 19, 2020, 10:02:34 PM »
Godfrey at atlantic: Sanders supporters in Ohio doubt Biden will move leftward

"Democrats would rather listen to young people singing the national anthem than to their political opinions."

"watched the Democratic National Convention’s kickoff with, it seemed, varying amounts of bitterness. "

"when John Kasich, the former Republican governor of Ohio, appeared on-screen, the chat descended briefly into despair."

" this outreach to Republicans confirms their worst fears about a potential Biden administration. They worry that Democrats have abandoned core party values in their effort to oust Trump, and they fear that by welcoming Never Trumpers into the fold, the Democratic Party will become more conservative."

" a faction that couldn’t build a coalition big enough to make Sanders the Democratic nominee, and is still grappling with the reality that it represents a minority of the country."

"In Ohio, Kasich “is the enemy among Democrats,” Deamer said. “To see him reincarnated as this nice, middle-of-the-road guy”—and occupying a time slot that could have gone to a progressive—is “a real slap in the face.” "

 “I feel like I’ve been abandoned by my party.”

“Democrats have become a more moderate party in the past four years, because there’s a new name for suburban Republicans who don’t like Trump—and that’s Democrats,”

“The concept that these [former Republicans] are somehow to be trusted and have any [intention] at all of keeping with the proposed Democratic agenda is preposterous,”

" No one said anything when Sanders promised that Biden would do his utmost as president to “move the country forward.” Even he couldn’t make them believe it."

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2020/08/john-kasichs-dnc-speech-angered-progressives/615361/

sidd

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #461 on: August 19, 2020, 10:09:05 PM »
Yglesias at vox: Nostalgia ain't what it used to be

" A large and growing bloc, including many Americans without college degrees, simply sees the world in more zero-sum, more moralistic, and less optimistic terms than the kind of college-educated professionals who mostly run political campaigns and the media. "

" Democrats are doing little to give a voice or a face to these populist sentiments in either their left or more moderate forms."

"The party is celebrating its past more than its future, and, in so doing, making a very strong pitch for nostalgia. With double-digit unemployment and thousands dying per day of a new disease, there’s obviously something to be said for turning back the clock ... there’s also a real danger in this path."

"A common anti-restorationist sentiment, averred even by establishmentarian figures like Pod Save America host Jon Favreau, is the idea that “Trump is a symptom, not the problem.”

"What’s often less clear is what exactly he’s a symptom of. "

"low-trust voters are something of a blind spot for the Democratic Party, which is run and funded by a group of people — cosmopolitan, diverse, well-educated, economically secure — who see the world in positive terms and who feel their personal concerns are frequently catered to by cultural tastemakers. "

"even as Trump is badly underperforming his 2016 results with white voters (especially women and college graduates), he’s doing a bit better with Black voters and with Hispanic voters. "

"Democrats aren’t going to suddenly stop being the party of college-educated cosmopolitans, and Joe Biden couldn’t reasonably campaign as a revolutionary outsider ...  it’s striking that Democrats are choosing to dedicate so little time to highlighting voices who could speak to any of the demographic groups on the margins of their coalition — the diverse group of mostly young, mostly working-class people who feel the political system has lost interest in them. "

https://www.vox.com/2020/8/17/21369922/democratic-convention-dnc-speeches-lineup

sidd

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #462 on: August 19, 2020, 11:50:07 PM »
If Biden wins and his agenda does show a rightward shift due to moderate Republican influence, that may provide the impetus for progressives to finally jump ship and coalesce around the Greens or a new party. It's too late for that now. I think they would need to start at the beginning of the 4 year cycle with no involvement in the Democratic primary process.

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #463 on: August 20, 2020, 04:21:18 PM »

gerontocrat

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #464 on: August 20, 2020, 11:31:35 PM »
Dems drop “ending fossil fuel subsidies” from platform.

https://www.vox.com/2020/8/19/21375039/dnc-2020-democrats-platform-climate-change-fossil-fuel-subsidies
I guess that is why Neven started a thread "the problem with corporate Democrats and how to kick them out"
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Bruce Steele

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #465 on: August 20, 2020, 11:58:33 PM »
I would imagine they were told they might lose some electoral college votes deemed critical.
My wife and I donated to Obama hoping he would act on climate change but all the energy went into healthcare. I would hope we could do better this time around but I sure don’t hear squat in the Democrats convention speeches that for some reason my wife watches ,and I endure. More tonite.

The oil patch is not doing well these days so if and when Covid subsides I would imagine Democrat’s taking credit for the next oil boom, should they win the elections. I assume the economy is tanking no matter who wins so people will hope somehow oil pulls us back from the abyss.
 There will be large efforts at renewables from the Democrats as a jobs program but there will also be a push to restart fracking so if anyone remembers an “ all of the above “ energy policy I guess you may see version 2.

sidd

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #466 on: August 21, 2020, 12:56:26 AM »
Martin at wsws: CIA democrats are back

"In 2020, the intervention of the CIA Democrats continues on what is arguably an equally significant scale: besides the reelection campaigns of the 11 representatives who won seats in the House in 2018, half a dozen of those who lost 2018 races are running again in 2020. Some of these are running for House seats again, while others have been promoted by the Democratic Party leadership and are running for the US Senate. And an entire new crop of military-intelligence operatives is being brought forward, some running for Republican seats targeted by the Democratic leadership as possible takeovers, others in seats not currently considered competitive."

"at least 34 Democratic candidates for the House of Representatives have a primarily military-intelligence background, up from 30 in 2018, as well as three of the party’s 35 candidates for the US Senate, compared to zero in 2018. For each branch of Congress, this represents about 10 percent of the total."

"Three Democrats seeking US Senate seats in November have a primarily military-intelligence background, including two who ran unsuccessfully for House seats in 2018. In each case, the CIA Democrat won a contested primary, with the support of Senate Minority Leader Charles Schumer and the Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee (DSCC), defeating a more liberal candidate."

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2020/08/20/ciad-a20.html

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #467 on: August 21, 2020, 01:23:01 PM »
Do the Dems Want To Win?
https://www.theautomaticearth.com/2020/08/do-the-dems-want-to-win/
Quote
Why would a bunch of power-hungry folk (as all politicians and their sponsors are) want to screw up their own chance at obtaining power? Well, the lack of good candidates may well be a factor, but there’s something much bigger: the US economy, like most if not all western economies, is wobbling precariously on a precipice, and about to fall off. As I labeled it recently: The Bottom Is Falling Out.

Our entire present reality is still somewhat new, the COVID pandemic, its fallout, the bailouts, the government checks, the sick and the dead, but at some point it will all start to become a “normal” part of life. That doesn’t mean, however, that the economy will return to “normal” (whatever anybody ever thought that meant).

An enormous number of businesses will never reopen, entire fields will be obliterated, re: tourism, airlines, a large swath of retail stores. The unemployment that generates will be with us for many years. The Great Depression will become a mere footnote in most history books.

And the parties in charge in various countries, including the GOP in America, will be the ones blamed for most of the ensuing problems. If you’re a Democrat behind-the-curtain wizard, wouldn’t you at least consider saying: I think I’ll pass for this round, and let Trump take the heat?
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Freegrass

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #468 on: August 25, 2020, 11:29:16 AM »
This is the third hurricane to hit during a republican convention. When will those religious nutcases get the message?

2008
Quote
President George W. Bush did not attend the convention (although he did appear by satellite), in order to oversee relief efforts to help citizens recover from Hurricane Gustav.

2012
Quote
Due to the approach of Hurricane Isaac, convention officials changed the convention schedule on August 26, 2012
« Last Edit: August 25, 2020, 11:37:45 AM by Freegrass »
Now let's pray...

If the science don't fit our beliefs, we pray to God and cuddle up in our own delusional fantasy where everything makes sense again...

The Walrus

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #469 on: August 25, 2020, 03:38:05 PM »
This is the third hurricane to hit during a republican convention. When will those religious nutcases get the message?

2008
Quote
President George W. Bush did not attend the convention (although he did appear by satellite), in order to oversee relief efforts to help citizens recover from Hurricane Gustav.

2012
Quote
Due to the approach of Hurricane Isaac, convention officials changed the convention schedule on August 26, 2012

What message?  That the end of August is prime hurricane season?

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #470 on: August 27, 2020, 12:34:16 PM »
This guy is not the most reliable on the Web, but his article cites sources and makes some scary points:
2020 Election Nightmare: Armies Of Lawyers Are Ready To Fight A Long Legal Battle Over The Election Results
http://endoftheamericandream.com/archives/2020-election-nightmare-armies-of-lawyers-are-ready-to-fight-a-long-legal-battle-over-the-election-results
Quote
Armies of lawyers have already been recruited, reasons to question the legitimacy of the 2020 election results are already being floated, and top politicians on both sides are already urging a fight to the bitter end.  Initially, it appeared that we might avoid this sort of a scenario.  For several months Joe Biden had a large lead in all of the major national polls, and some people were even discussing the possibility of a “landslide”.  But now the polls are tightening up, and this is especially true in the swing states which will ultimately decide the outcome of the election.  If the race is quite tight once we get to election night, it is likely that neither side will be willing to concede until every conceivable legal challenge is completely exhausted.  That could mean an extended legal battle lasting for months, and that is something that none of us should want to see.
SHARKS (CROSSED OUT) MONGEESE (SIC) WITH FRICKIN LASER BEAMS ATTACHED TO THEIR HEADS

The Walrus

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #471 on: August 27, 2020, 01:57:58 PM »
This guy is not the most reliable on the Web, but his article cites sources and makes some scary points:
2020 Election Nightmare: Armies Of Lawyers Are Ready To Fight A Long Legal Battle Over The Election Results
http://endoftheamericandream.com/archives/2020-election-nightmare-armies-of-lawyers-are-ready-to-fight-a-long-legal-battle-over-the-election-results
Quote
Armies of lawyers have already been recruited, reasons to question the legitimacy of the 2020 election results are already being floated, and top politicians on both sides are already urging a fight to the bitter end.  Initially, it appeared that we might avoid this sort of a scenario.  For several months Joe Biden had a large lead in all of the major national polls, and some people were even discussing the possibility of a “landslide”.  But now the polls are tightening up, and this is especially true in the swing states which will ultimately decide the outcome of the election.  If the race is quite tight once we get to election night, it is likely that neither side will be willing to concede until every conceivable legal challenge is completely exhausted.  That could mean an extended legal battle lasting for months, and that is something that none of us should want to see.

I suspect this will not happen.  This had the potential in 2000, but the Supreme Court stepped in.  The electors must vote on December 14, so the results must be validated by then.

Freegrass

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #472 on: August 27, 2020, 02:55:40 PM »
This is the third hurricane to hit during a republican convention. When will those religious nutcases get the message?

2008
Quote
President George W. Bush did not attend the convention (although he did appear by satellite), in order to oversee relief efforts to help citizens recover from Hurricane Gustav.

2012
Quote
Due to the approach of Hurricane Isaac, convention officials changed the convention schedule on August 26, 2012

What message?  That the end of August is prime hurricane season?
No, that their God keeps messing up their conventions, but not those of the liberals that want to actually save His planet... ;)
Now let's pray...

If the science don't fit our beliefs, we pray to God and cuddle up in our own delusional fantasy where everything makes sense again...

The Walrus

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #473 on: August 27, 2020, 05:01:50 PM »
This is the third hurricane to hit during a republican convention. When will those religious nutcases get the message?

2008
Quote
President George W. Bush did not attend the convention (although he did appear by satellite), in order to oversee relief efforts to help citizens recover from Hurricane Gustav.

2012
Quote
Due to the approach of Hurricane Isaac, convention officials changed the convention schedule on August 26, 2012

What message?  That the end of August is prime hurricane season?
No, that their God keeps messing up their conventions, but not those of the liberals that want to actually save His planet... ;)

But the liberals do not care for the people inhabiting the planet.

Tor Bejnar

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #474 on: August 27, 2020, 06:30:20 PM »
Quote
...But now the polls are tightening up, ...
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/president-general/national/ composite data doesn't particularly support this opinion.

Electoral-vote.com's history of (non-partisan) state polls don't either (January to now).
projected Electoral College votes: https://electoral-vote.com/evp2020/Pres/ec_graph-2020.html
polling by state:  https://electoral-vote.com/evp2020/Pres/Graphs/all.html
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Freegrass

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #475 on: August 27, 2020, 09:13:57 PM »
Kamala, what a disaster!!!!
Are you watching this?
Now let's pray...

If the science don't fit our beliefs, we pray to God and cuddle up in our own delusional fantasy where everything makes sense again...

The Walrus

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #476 on: August 28, 2020, 02:42:27 PM »
Quote
...But now the polls are tightening up, ...
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/president-general/national/ composite data doesn't particularly support this opinion.


Actually your link does.  The composite national poll doesn't support this opinion, because it is skewed by big swings towards Biden in CA and NY.

In the battleground states of Florida, Georgia, Michigan, Minnesota, North Carolina, Ohio, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin the polling shows a distinct shift towards Trump and away from Biden over the past two months, with an average movement of 2.4%.  This ranged from 1.1% in NC to 5.1% in MN.  These states are worth 112 EVs, and Biden needs 41 to win the election.

bbr2315

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #477 on: August 30, 2020, 01:40:10 AM »
Trump is going to win in a blow-out. I could see even NY going for him. The Democrats are totally done on a local and national level. People cannot express support for him without an angry mob of PC fascists breaking down their door and coming for their employment. And Democrats wonder why they lose elections.

Paddy

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #478 on: August 30, 2020, 11:30:38 AM »
Trump is going to win in a blow-out. I could see even NY going for him. The Democrats are totally done on a local and national level. People cannot express support for him without an angry mob of PC fascists breaking down their door and coming for their employment. And Democrats wonder why they lose elections.

Not going to happen. "Angry mob" fearmongering is overblown. Plus the current aggro all happened under Trump's watch, so how is it Biden's fault? He wasn't the one stirring shit by teargassing peaceful protesters for a photo op etc.

EDIT: Ask yourself this. If significant riots were taking place towards the end of Obama's presidency and the situation was being more aggravated than resolved by his actions, would you give him a free pass? And did you blame /would you have blamed Trump for any events towards the end of Obama's presidency? It's possible your bias may be showing.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2020, 02:09:39 PM by Paddy »

The Walrus

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #479 on: August 30, 2020, 03:06:00 PM »
Trump is going to win in a blow-out. I could see even NY going for him. The Democrats are totally done on a local and national level. People cannot express support for him without an angry mob of PC fascists breaking down their door and coming for their employment. And Democrats wonder why they lose elections.

Not going to happen. "Angry mob" fearmongering is overblown. Plus the current aggro all happened under Trump's watch, so how is it Biden's fault? He wasn't the one stirring shit by teargassing peaceful protesters for a photo op etc.

EDIT: Ask yourself this. If significant riots were taking place towards the end of Obama's presidency and the situation was being more aggravated than resolved by his actions, would you give him a free pass? And did you blame /would you have blamed Trump for any events towards the end of Obama's presidency? It's possible your bias may be showing.

Yes, it happened under Trump's watch.  What could be blamed on him is the police killings and his lack of action towards them.  The angry mobs are leftist reactions to the situation.  It does not appear that bbr is blaming it on Biden.  Rather, it is part of the leftist mentality that anything rightist should be defeated, and violently if necessary.  That is the philosophy that is destroying the Democratic party and turning voters away.  Politics has gotten much more confrontational recently.

bbr2315

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #480 on: August 30, 2020, 04:06:21 PM »
Trump is going to win in a blow-out. I could see even NY going for him. The Democrats are totally done on a local and national level. People cannot express support for him without an angry mob of PC fascists breaking down their door and coming for their employment. And Democrats wonder why they lose elections.

Not going to happen. "Angry mob" fearmongering is overblown. Plus the current aggro all happened under Trump's watch, so how is it Biden's fault? He wasn't the one stirring shit by teargassing peaceful protesters for a photo op etc.

EDIT: Ask yourself this. If significant riots were taking place towards the end of Obama's presidency and the situation was being more aggravated than resolved by his actions, would you give him a free pass? And did you blame /would you have blamed Trump for any events towards the end of Obama's presidency? It's possible your bias may be showing.
The riots are being caused by the Democrats... the depression we are now in was also caused by the Democrats... I am seeing a theme here?

If it were not for Powell's swift action at the Fed the economy would be even worse, we have few levers to counter the Democrats' corporate-media complex but Trump managed to use them effectively.

I think Trump has honestly done the best job possible re: COVID, the herd immunity strategy we have implemented a la Sweden has been successful in most areas, and those with Democrat governors will be the last to return to normal because they no longer believe in science.

It is crazy how quickly the Democrats surpassed the Republicans as the party of pseudoscience and fascist bullshit.


Paddy

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #482 on: August 30, 2020, 11:18:16 PM »
.

I think Trump has honestly done the best job possible re: COVID, the herd immunity strategy we have implemented a la Sweden has been successful in most areas, and those with Democrat governors will be the last to return to normal because they no longer believe in science.

It is crazy how quickly the Democrats surpassed the Republicans as the party of pseudoscience and fascist bullshit.

All of this is just so totally at odds with Trump's record on not backing facemasks or social distancing, the ongoing death toll in the US that's significantly worse than what's going on in Canada, or Europe, his rambling on about injecting bleach, and talking about climate change as a Chinese hoax... just for a start.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2020, 05:59:20 AM by Paddy »

bbr2315

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #483 on: August 31, 2020, 01:32:01 PM »
.

I think Trump has honestly done the best job possible re: COVID, the herd immunity strategy we have implemented a la Sweden has been successful in most areas, and those with Democrat governors will be the last to return to normal because they no longer believe in science.

It is crazy how quickly the Democrats surpassed the Republicans as the party of pseudoscience and fascist bullshit.

All of this is just so totally at odds with Trump's record on not backing facemasks or social distancing, the ongoing death toll in the US that's significantly worse than what's going on in Canada, or Europe, his rambling on about injecting bleach, and talking about climate change as a Chinese hoax... just for a start.

The facemasks are effective at prevention if worn by enough people. And the type matters too.

I think you are regurgitating talking points here (bleach, Chinese hoax) and not looking at what has actually happened in the US. While NYC was horrific, the death toll nationally is still proportionately lower than the EU.

And, if vaccines are not widespread and VIABLE until spring, maximizing infections during summertime amongst those who do not care about being infected is the BEST way to ensure herd immunity and that the virus is limited come autumn, reducing overall mortality. Additionally, I do believe mortality is SEASONAL in COVID as well for a large component of the population as well, i.e., the more people infected in wintertime, the more will die proportionately, and not only that, but said burden puts an even larger strain on the hospital system which potentially results in even more deaths, as hospitalizations also increase dramatically.

I think your disconnect from the American people is evident in that you would base your vote on the response to a disease which has killed very few people overall, compared to the economic damage and political freedoms Democrats appear willing and able to remove and destroy with no regard to anyone's livelihoods. We still do not have indoor dining in NYC. I am guessing you would say this is a good thing and I am guessing that is why we are probably not going to agree on anything here !  :)

There is a very decent chance that come 11/1, EU and China / almost all of NHEM are in a major 2nd wave with NYC-Mexico City-esque death tolls. Some Democrat states will be too. But the majority of the US will be done with the virus, the strategy implemented in summertime will look like a great success, the economy will be roaring back to life, and he will be campaigning on re-opening EVERYWHERE nationally. He is honestly possibly going to win in the biggest victory since Reagan, IMO.

Can you imagine what Joe Biden will be doing during this time mentioned above? If he hasn't died by that point from COVID or a stroke? Will he be in public at all? Will he still retain his abilities of speech?

I think Joe Biden is a horrible candidate and that he is going to lose spectacularly. The writing is on the wall.

PS: I probably won't vote, I do think Trump is a bit better than Biden because my main issue is China / the CCP, and how we deal with them, and I think Trump has been very effective in that regard. I am hearing rumors that the CCP is looking to replace Xi and that there is impending internal strife in China. If the Three Gorges situation / etc worsens (and the Himalayan anomaly is once again relevant....) I could see major internal instability and / or governmental upheaval.

I would not want Biden to be in charge in such a situation, I think Trump would actually do a much better job of shaping a China beneficial to American interests than Biden, as he has already done (IMO).
« Last Edit: August 31, 2020, 01:40:42 PM by bbr2315 »

Tony Mcleod

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #484 on: August 31, 2020, 02:07:14 PM »
Trump is going to win in a blow-out. I could see even NY going for him. The Democrats are totally done on a local and national level. People cannot express support for him without an angry mob of PC fascists breaking down their door and coming for their employment. And Democrats wonder why they lose elections.

Not going to happen. "Angry mob" fearmongering is overblown. Plus the current aggro all happened under Trump's watch, so how is it Biden's fault? He wasn't the one stirring shit by teargassing peaceful protesters for a photo op etc.

EDIT: Ask yourself this. If significant riots were taking place towards the end of Obama's presidency and the situation was being more aggravated than resolved by his actions, would you give him a free pass? And did you blame /would you have blamed Trump for any events towards the end of Obama's presidency? It's possible your bias may be showing.

Yes, it happened under Trump's watch.  What could be blamed on him is the police killings and his lack of action towards them.  The angry mobs are leftist reactions to the situation.  It does not appear that bbr is blaming it on Biden.  Rather, it is part of the leftist mentality that anything rightist should be defeated, and violently if necessary.  That is the philosophy that is destroying the Democratic party and turning voters away.  Politics has gotten much more confrontational recently.

The sad truth is the US is so hopelessly divided that you could rewrite that paragraph switching left for right. Trump has been at the helm for years and is right now, so that is where the buck must stop. Irrespective of what Biden says or does, Trump does not have the inclination nor the capacity of acting like a wise, impartial and selfless statesman to begin healing the divisions but he actually stands to gain by fuelling further unrest, so a very unfortunate time ahead for our American friends.

Tom_Mazanec

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #485 on: August 31, 2020, 03:44:16 PM »
Here's one way to ensure a Biden win...kill all the Trump supporters:
“They Hunted Him Down”: Friend of Murdered Trump Supporter Speaks Out
https://summit.news/2020/08/31/they-hunted-him-down-friend-of-murdered-trump-supporter-speaks-out/
Quote
Bishop was shot dead on Saturday night in Portland. Video footage of the incident shows someone shouting “We’ve got a Trumper right here,” before another person responds “Right here?” before firing two shots.
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The Walrus

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #486 on: August 31, 2020, 04:26:32 PM »
Trump is going to win in a blow-out. I could see even NY going for him. The Democrats are totally done on a local and national level. People cannot express support for him without an angry mob of PC fascists breaking down their door and coming for their employment. And Democrats wonder why they lose elections.

Not going to happen. "Angry mob" fearmongering is overblown. Plus the current aggro all happened under Trump's watch, so how is it Biden's fault? He wasn't the one stirring shit by teargassing peaceful protesters for a photo op etc.

EDIT: Ask yourself this. If significant riots were taking place towards the end of Obama's presidency and the situation was being more aggravated than resolved by his actions, would you give him a free pass? And did you blame /would you have blamed Trump for any events towards the end of Obama's presidency? It's possible your bias may be showing.

Yes, it happened under Trump's watch.  What could be blamed on him is the police killings and his lack of action towards them.  The angry mobs are leftist reactions to the situation.  It does not appear that bbr is blaming it on Biden.  Rather, it is part of the leftist mentality that anything rightist should be defeated, and violently if necessary.  That is the philosophy that is destroying the Democratic party and turning voters away.  Politics has gotten much more confrontational recently.

The sad truth is the US is so hopelessly divided that you could rewrite that paragraph switching left for right. Trump has been at the helm for years and is right now, so that is where the buck must stop. Irrespective of what Biden says or does, Trump does not have the inclination nor the capacity of acting like a wise, impartial and selfless statesman to begin healing the divisions but he actually stands to gain by fuelling further unrest, so a very unfortunate time ahead for our American friends.

There is a lot of truth in what you just said.  The situation is not new.  Occasionally, talking points like hard on crime or soft on crime emerge during an election, but little gets done.  Recent divisions in politics is not helping, and there is plenty of blame to go around.  Trump obviously has done little to combat the issue, but I am not sure Biden can do any better.  The issue was around during the Obama administration, and little has changed.  The underlying issue needs to be addresses, otherwise any action is just superficial.

Hefaistos

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #487 on: August 31, 2020, 11:55:59 PM »

Spread betters now in favour of a Trump win.

Covid19 is now seemingly playing in Trump's favour.

Odds for D winning the Senate sharply down.

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2020-08-31/election-prediction-markets-show-kenosha-is-helping-trump?srnd=premium&sref=fWXwYVpp

bbr2315

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #488 on: September 01, 2020, 08:49:45 PM »
If you want to see why Trump is going to win, look at how harpy is behaving in the COVID thread. For 50%+ of the country, this election is harpy's position, vs. the old normal.

If you think a choice like that is not going to result in a Reagan-esque landslide... you are probably wrong. Harpy is literally attacking the entirety of my normal, everyday existence, and the sentiment among most people is that most Democrats support policies that would enable and embolden fascist-wannabes like Harpy to impose their will on all others.

The sad thing for Democrats is the media is almost entirely controlled by the Ds who have stooges with views like harpy on the networks / etc spewing fake propaganda.... the disconnect between "the media" and the public has never been larger, in fact I would guess COVID has largely resulted in the COLLAPSE of traditional major news outlets (mostly heavily tilted D) as studio coverage has splintered into Zoom sessions / etc undermining the last vestiges of "image" that separated the networks from the Youtubers etc. So there is this worsening disconnect between what "party loyalists" think public perception is re: COVID, and what the situation on the ground actually is in most areas.

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #489 on: September 01, 2020, 09:57:25 PM »
I can't believe some people. All trump did was refuse to act and spent all of his time trying to blame others. He did not come up with a plan to do anything or a plan to make us reach heard immunity faster. He spent the whole time trying to cover his ass. What a great leader! He leads everyone in the blame game. I blame you, you and you. Its not my fault I blame you. Normally a crisis is a unifying factor but he used it to facilitate more division.  Replacing trump with a magic eight ball would be a huge improvement.


Biden is not a good choice but at least he is not trying to destroy US democracy. Trump is doing his best to dismantle all the checks on presidential power. If he gets enough of his sycophants in place it may not be possible to remove him.

sedziobs

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #490 on: September 01, 2020, 10:24:45 PM »
Morning Consult released a slate of swing state polls conducted over the last 10 days. In parenthesis is the change since the last round of polls from two weeks prior (+Biden, -Trump). 

FL 2 (-3)
PA 4 (-2)
NC 2 (-1)
OH 5 (-1)
MN 7 (-1)
TX 1 (0)
CO 10 (0)
WI 9 (+3)
MI 10 (+4)
GA 3 (+4)
AZ 10 (+12)

If Biden takes the states where he leads by at least 7 (plus NV and NE2), he can afford to lose FL, PA, NC, and OH.
 

bbr2315

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #491 on: September 01, 2020, 10:59:26 PM »
Morning Consult released a slate of swing state polls conducted over the last 10 days. In parenthesis is the change since the last round of polls from two weeks prior (+Biden, -Trump). 

FL 2 (-3)
PA 4 (-2)
NC 2 (-1)
OH 5 (-1)
MN 7 (-1)
TX 1 (0)
CO 10 (0)
WI 9 (+3)
MI 10 (+4)
GA 3 (+4)
AZ 10 (+12)

If Biden takes the states where he leads by at least 7 (plus NV and NE2), he can afford to lose FL, PA, NC, and OH.
 
Delusional

Like Hillary campaigning in GA and AZ

Why don't the Democrats ever learn....

The Walrus

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #492 on: September 01, 2020, 11:34:08 PM »
Morning Consult released a slate of swing state polls conducted over the last 10 days. In parenthesis is the change since the last round of polls from two weeks prior (+Biden, -Trump). 

FL 2 (-3)
PA 4 (-2)
NC 2 (-1)
OH 5 (-1)
MN 7 (-1)
TX 1 (0)
CO 10 (0)
WI 9 (+3)
MI 10 (+4)
GA 3 (+4)
AZ 10 (+12)

If Biden takes the states where he leads by at least 7 (plus NV and NE2), he can afford to lose FL, PA, NC, and OH.
 
Delusional

Like Hillary campaigning in GA and AZ

Why don't the Democrats ever learn....

I wonder how many college football fans in those states are thinking of switching their vote.

https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/29787079/big-ten-commissioner-president-trump-talk-starting-college-football-season


Tom_Mazanec

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #493 on: September 02, 2020, 04:43:07 PM »
Nancy Pelosi, Next President of the United States?
https://dailyreckoning.com/nancy-pelosi-next-president-of-the-united-states/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+dailyreckoning+%28The+Daily+Reckoning%29
Quote
But we might not know the actual outcome for days, weeks, or even months potentially…

Americans are already on guard that mail-in ballots, long lines at polling places, armies of lawyers and potential court orders could make this presidential election one of the most heavily contested and uncertain elections in our lifetimes.

It could be even more drawn-out and uncertain that the 2000 election between Bush and Gore, which was finally decided by the Supreme Court weeks after Election Day.

If you don’t think things can get even weirder and more uncertain than that, well, they can. I’m not predicting it’s going to happen, let me be clear, but we could even end up with President Pelosi. Here’s how:

The United States has a line-of-succession statute that dictates what happens if an election is undecided. The sitting President and Vice President leave office at noon on January 20, 2021 even if no winner has been decided.

Nancy Pelosi, President?
In that case, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi becomes Acting President. But, that assumes Pelosi is named Speaker. What if House seats are also undecided because of mail-in ballots, legal challenges and close elections?

If enough House seats are not decided, there may not be a quorum in the House, which means that there would be no Speaker at all and still no Acting President.

Let’s hope that none of this happens and the outcome is resolved quickly with a legitimate winner all can agree on. The social unrest we’re seeing today could be child’s play next to the kind of unrest we’d see during a disputed election.

But, given the looming uncertainty, it’s impossible to rule out this kind of chaotic scenario. And the way things have gone this year, with the pandemic and the social unrest, would it surprise you if it happened?
SHARKS (CROSSED OUT) MONGEESE (SIC) WITH FRICKIN LASER BEAMS ATTACHED TO THEIR HEADS

bbr2315

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #494 on: September 02, 2020, 10:12:00 PM »
Trump will roll out the vaccine 11/1. The optics enabling his victory have been set by the media trying to ensure his defeat. The moon-shot will be presented as a major success, USA #1 ahead of all other countries, and the people who have been craving a vaccine (a ton of Democrats // OLD PEOPLE WHO DO INDEED VOTE) will thank him with said votes.

The CDC said states need vaccine sites ready by 11/1 today, hence....^

The Walrus

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #495 on: September 03, 2020, 04:00:52 AM »
That sounds exactly like something he would do.

Paddy

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #496 on: September 03, 2020, 05:05:31 AM »
Trump will roll out the vaccine 11/1. The optics enabling his victory have been set by the media trying to ensure his defeat. The moon-shot will be presented as a major success, USA #1 ahead of all other countries, and the people who have been craving a vaccine (a ton of Democrats // OLD PEOPLE WHO DO INDEED VOTE) will thank him with said votes.

The CDC said states need vaccine sites ready by 11/1 today, hence....^

Or this could just be another backfiring project. There's no way testing will be done by then.

Tom_Mazanec

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #497 on: September 03, 2020, 12:30:16 PM »
Democratic Pollster Predicts a Huge Trump Win on Election Night — But Says Biden Will End Up Winning Within a Week
https://www.mediaite.com/news/democratic-pollster-predicts-a-huge-trump-win-on-election-night-but-says-biden-will-end-up-winning-within-a-week/
Quote
President Donald Trump is likely going to win big on election night — including in traditionally Democratic states, such as Minnesota and Virginia — but will lose the election a week later because of mail-in voting, according to a Democratic pollster.

My God, can you imagine the reaction of the right wing in this country if that happened?
SHARKS (CROSSED OUT) MONGEESE (SIC) WITH FRICKIN LASER BEAMS ATTACHED TO THEIR HEADS

Paddy

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #498 on: September 03, 2020, 01:05:04 PM »
Meanwhile, Trump's encouraging people to try and vote twice, to check that the system is working. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/02/us/politics/trump-people-vote-twice.html

Without mentioning, of course, that voting twice is illegal.

bbr2315

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #499 on: September 03, 2020, 01:40:41 PM »
Trump will roll out the vaccine 11/1. The optics enabling his victory have been set by the media trying to ensure his defeat. The moon-shot will be presented as a major success, USA #1 ahead of all other countries, and the people who have been craving a vaccine (a ton of Democrats // OLD PEOPLE WHO DO INDEED VOTE) will thank him with said votes.

The CDC said states need vaccine sites ready by 11/1 today, hence....^

Or this could just be another backfiring project. There's no way testing will be done by then.
The left is dying for a vaccine and wants to implement it universally. Can you imagine the Democrats suddenly turning antivax when one is produced. lol. Even if it is fake the optics will play horribly. The same fake vaccines will be rolling out globally by November btw, so that will further legitimize "the fix".