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Ken Feldman

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #150 on: October 01, 2019, 02:11:24 AM »
From reading some of the comments, and watching some of the videos in them, it seems that a lot of people have misconceptions about the impeachment inquiry and even the process of impeachment.  The story linked below is a good summary:

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2019/09/impeachment-ukraine-and-its-costs-three-key-questions.amp

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Given these complexities, responsible discussions of impeachment must consider three questions. First, has the president engaged in conduct that warrants his removal under the Constitution? Second, is the effort to remove him likely to make a positive impact—or will impeachment be a mere quixotic quest? And third, would impeachment be worth the resulting rupturing of our national fabric?

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Americans have never reduced to a simple formula what it means to commit “high Crimes and Misdemeanors.” A working definition captures two general elements. First, impeachable offenses represent betrayal of office. And second, those offenses pose such a serious risk of harm that they require preventive action—in other words, they suggest that the president endangers the nation. Such offenses may involve a pattern of closely related abuses, rather than a single deed. But the ultimate inquiry is whether the president has so betrayed his office and poses such a continuing threat that leaving him in power could imperil our constitutional democracy.

This president has done just that.

Begin with the White House readout of Trump’s phone conversation with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky. That readout, even in its presumably sanitized form, reveals a multitude of impeachable offenses. On that call, Trump abused the foreign policy and military powers entrusted to the president by Article II to serve his own political interests—and perhaps those of his sometime-benefactor, Russian President Vladimir Putin, whose tanks have penetrated Ukrainian territory and would be opposed by the military aid Trump was unilaterally withholding—rather than the interests of the American people.
 
The resultant cover-up, too, is staggering. We have learned that the effort to protect the president ensnared numerous senior White House officials, including the lawyers representing not the president personally but the presidential office. Indeed, the whistleblower complaint alleges that the cover-up was part of a pattern of systematically overclassifying politically embarrassing information to protect the president. Such conduct betrays the institution of the presidency and poses a clear and present danger to our national security. It does so by compromising the integrity of our system for classifying intelligence, thereby undermining the confidence of our key allies in how the secrets they share with us will be handled. And it conceals the ongoing danger posed to our most sensitive secrets by the seemingly reckless way our commander in chief deploys those secrets for personal advantage or political leverage.

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The primary arguments against impeachment—articulated by liberals like Bruce Ackerman, moderates like Frank Bruni, and reactionaries like John Yoo—do not deny the gravity of the president’s violations. Rather, they argue that impeachment is not worth the national costs of enraging the incumbent president’s supporters, fanning the flames of the white-hot anger that drove many of them into his camp in the first place, and leaving even some who might be prepared to vote against Trump in 2020 with the sense that a group composed almost entirely of Democrats is illegitimately undoing the results of an election with which they never came to terms. We should weigh those costs carefully as we consider how to proceed.

But those concerns cannot outweigh the imminent concern of a lawless presidency. Yes, impeachment would be traumatic. But what is the alternative? Acquiescing to lawlessness out of fear? And declining to impeach would be traumatic as well.

Klondike Kat

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #151 on: October 01, 2019, 04:27:02 AM »
wili
Only Andrew Johnson, Richard Nixon & Bill Clinton have been impeached by the House, Donald Trump will soon be the fourth in the last 230 years. I don't fear VP Pence becoming the incumbent in the next election only because I see no way for the Senate trial to succeed. I actually don't  believe Pelosi intended the impeachment to succeed.
What I do fear is that "The Donald" stands a much better chance of being re-elected now that Pelosi has (over)played her hand.


The time for arguing for or against the Democrats trying this tactic is past. Pelosi, who I see as an unsavory character, has committed the party & there's no way back, at least none that I can see.


The Democratic Party's internal polls must have painted a much darker picture of the coming election than anything we've I've seen, or the party would have waited and let the voters remove Trump. It makes little sense to impeach a President who you believe is about to lose an election.


A far more likely scenario is that Pelosi never intended to succeed in removing Trump by impeachment, but rather is hoping to injure him in the polls. I hope she's right, but if she is it indicates that the Democratic leadership felt that Trump is unbeatable in 2020 unless he can be damaged by the coming trials.


To say that this is a daring move is an understatement. If the independents become convinced that the "establishment" is picking on Trump, Democrats will take a huge shellacking in the election. Trump could emerge with Republican Supermajorities in House & Senate.


The Democrats will win in the House, Trump will win the Senate. Rather than judging the validity of the charges or the responses that follow, I'll be trying to assess their effect on the voting public.
Terry

I would agree with everything you stated, except that Nixon was never impeached.  He resigned before that could occur.  I do believe that the American people are tired of hearing about this, and it will likely harm the Democratic Party in general, as no one likes a witch hunt.

blumenkraft

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #152 on: October 01, 2019, 08:27:15 AM »
ABC News Has Covered Sanders for Only Seven Minutes in 2019
MRC: Biden has gotten more attention than other 2020 Dems combined




Link >> https://freebeacon.com/politics/abc-news-has-covered-sanders-for-only-seven-minutes-in-2019/
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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #153 on: October 01, 2019, 12:43:10 PM »
Texas Republicans admit there’s a problem

Quote
The big picture: The GOP recognizes they can no longer ignore their Democratic opponents and count on coasting to re-election in this previously-reliable red state.

What to watch: Another Texas Republican strategist said to watch McCaul for another potential retirement. If he goes, he would be the 7th of the state's 23 House Republicans to retire at the end of this term.

The bottom line: It's truly a sign of the times that Democrats think Texas in 2020 could mimic California in 2018 — where the party picked up 7 GOP seats and helped Dems win back the House.

Link >> https://www.axios.com/texas-republicans-retirements-2020-837d4d98-ab51-4025-8784-761be418a6e0.html
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TerryM

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #154 on: October 02, 2019, 10:26:18 AM »
wili
Only Andrew Johnson, Richard Nixon & Bill Clinton have been impeached by the House, Donald Trump will soon be the fourth in the last 230 years. I don't fear VP Pence becoming the incumbent in the next election only because I see no way for the Senate trial to succeed. I actually don't  believe Pelosi intended the impeachment to succeed.
What I do fear is that "The Donald" stands a much better chance of being re-elected now that Pelosi has (over)played her hand.


The time for arguing for or against the Democrats trying this tactic is past. Pelosi, who I see as an unsavory character, has committed the party & there's no way back, at least none that I can see.


The Democratic Party's internal polls must have painted a much darker picture of the coming election than anything we've I've seen, or the party would have waited and let the voters remove Trump. It makes little sense to impeach a President who you believe is about to lose an election.


A far more likely scenario is that Pelosi never intended to succeed in removing Trump by impeachment, but rather is hoping to injure him in the polls. I hope she's right, but if she is it indicates that the Democratic leadership felt that Trump is unbeatable in 2020 unless he can be damaged by the coming trials.


To say that this is a daring move is an understatement. If the independents become convinced that the "establishment" is picking on Trump, Democrats will take a huge shellacking in the election. Trump could emerge with Republican Supermajorities in House & Senate.


The Democrats will win in the House, Trump will win the Senate. Rather than judging the validity of the charges or the responses that follow, I'll be trying to assess their effect on the voting public.
Terry

I would agree with everything you stated, except that Nixon was never impeached.  He resigned before that could occur.  I do believe that the American people are tired of hearing about this, and it will likely harm the Democratic Party in general, as no one likes a witch hunt.


You are right. My Bad.
As you said Nixon resigned prior to the house voting for his impeachment. I'd misremembered thinking that he quit after the House vote but prior to the Senate's decision.
Thanks!
Impeachment will make for some interesting theater, but the divide between Americans isn't healthy, and this can't do anything but exacerbate that situation. It's sucked all of the air out of AGW, just as RussiaGate had done previously.
Terry

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #155 on: October 02, 2019, 08:08:44 PM »
I'm sorry that Bernie is not a few years younger. Hope he recovers (though I doubt he'll campaign anymore)
No me lo trago

Ken Feldman

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #156 on: October 07, 2019, 09:31:47 PM »
I'm sorry that Bernie is not a few years younger. Hope he recovers (though I doubt he'll campaign anymore)

He's announced that he'll be at the debate on October 15th.  He'll probably resume campaigning after that.

And he has senior people from his campaign going to scheduled events in Iowa and South Carolina this week.  If he wasn't going to resume campaigning, they wouldn't be doing that.

TerryM

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #157 on: October 07, 2019, 09:40:29 PM »
Modern Medicine has made great advances WRT the heart. I've been amazed at how rapidly friends have been recovering in the past few decades.
I think he'll be back in a short time.
Terry

Ken Feldman

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #158 on: October 08, 2019, 10:06:52 PM »
Bernie has announced that he'll resume campaigning after the October 15th debate, which he is participating in.

https://www.politico.com/news/2019/10/08/bernie-sanders-medical-records-release-040039

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Sen. Bernie Sanders said the heart attack that has briefly sidelined him from the campaign trail did not mean he would be moving up the timeline to release his medical records, telling reporters they would come out “at the appropriate time.”
“We always planned to release them and we have more medical records, obviously, now” after the heart attack, he explained to reporters staked out outside of his Burlington, Vt., home.

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The senator has vowed he’ll be on stage for next week’s Democratic debate, where his aides are betting he’ll showcase his strength and resiliency. Until then, though, Sanders has canceled his campaign events, emerging from his house for periodic walks with his wife Jane as the cameras roll.

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #159 on: October 12, 2019, 05:14:47 AM »
Krystal Ball on accusations of being a Russian troll for supporting Andrew Yang:
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Earlier this week I did a monologue on why Andrew Yang has made the 5th debate when so many others haven't. In my assessment, his success is in part because he was willing to expose the lie of the American meritocracy.
...
Have you discussed any of the following topics using facts and data: Poverty, addiction, homelessness, the middle class, the working class, gun violence, class warfare, community disintegration, inequality, stagnant wages, consumerism or any of the other ills of late stage capitalism. Well comrades, let's make some borsht and drink some vodka because there's nothing Putin loves more than Americans telling the truth about the current state of America.
https://thehill.com/hilltv/rising/465486-krystal-ball-pushes-back-against-accusations-of-being-called-a-russian-plant

sidd

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #160 on: October 18, 2019, 01:38:33 AM »
Heideman at jacobin on class fissures in Trump country and wilful blindness of the media:

"the Republican Party is actually shot through with contradictions that center on what liberal journalists insist can’t possibly explain anything: class."

" Higher income people are more likely to vote, and are more likely to vote Republican, than people with lower incomes. "

"while Democratic voters by and large hold similar economic ideologies whether rich or poor, Republican voters were deeply divided by income. A majority of Republicans earning less than $40,000 a year supported raising the minimum wage, while among GOPers making more than $80,000 a year, less than 40 percent supported such a raise. The gulf was even wider on issues like mandatory paid family leave and taxing the rich"

"Among Republicans pulling in less than $40,000, 45 percent believed that economic inequality was caused by systemic unfairness in the economy. Only 18 percent of their wealthier counterparts endorsed such a view. "

"examining votes in the Senate found that the two parties are divided on different axes. While Democrats differ between rich and poor on social issues and are united on economics, Republicans are united on social issues and divided on economics, with poor Republicans endorsing significantly more progressive economic policies than rich Republicans. Senators in both parties tended to vote in accordance with the richest members of their party."

"schisms between rich and poor voters are widest in “Republican-leaning [congressional] districts, as well as districts that are highly religious, rural, and located in the south.”  "

"In rich states, which also tend to be more Democratic, income and voting were only weakly related, while in a poor red state like Arkansas, the relationship was much stronger. It is in poor states that the rich and poor are most divergent in their voting patterns."

"In the primary, three of the issues that strongly predicted backing Trump over the other Republican candidates were favoring limiting imports, backing government policies that limit inequality, and believing politicians only care about the rich. "

" there are huge numbers of poor white Americans who embrace racism and are ideologically opposed to public assistance programs. But what journalists venturing into Trump country miss is that people’s values reflect the actual choices available to them. "

"People who live in areas where the welfare state is all but nonexistent probably see a smaller tax burden as a more likely outcome than the government actually helping them"

"Taking advantage of this moment, however, is going to require coming to terms with how class is shaping American politics — including the mind of the heterogeneous Trump voter."

https://www.jacobinmag.com/2019/10/liberals-trump-country-class-voters-republicans

sidd


Ken Feldman

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #161 on: November 05, 2019, 10:10:30 PM »
If Nancy Pelosi is the incumbent President, how would that change the 2020 elections?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-impeachment-inquiry-live-updates/2019/11/05/a27d7c48-ff4e-11e9-8bab-0fc209e065a8_story.html

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Live updates: Top diplomat revises his earlier testimony, says U.S. aid to Ukraine was tied to public anti-corruption pledge

By John Wagner, Colby Itkowitz and Felicia Sonmez
November 5, 2019 at 12:53 p.m. PST

Gordon Sondland, ambassador to the European Union, acknowledged telling one of Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky’s advisers that resumption of U.S. aid was tied to an anti-corruption pledge sought by Trump.

The acknowledgment in a deposition released Tuesday was a reversal from his earlier testimony. It puts Sondland in the middle of what national security officials saw as an attempt by the White House to leverage nearly $400 million in security assistance for investigations that could benefit President Trump politically.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/11/05/politics/jennifer-williams-impeachment-inquiry/index.html

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Pence aide likely to testify in impeachment inquiry

By Alex Marquardt, CNN

Updated 1:54 PM ET, Tue November 5, 2019

Washington (CNN) A senior adviser to Vice President Mike Pence is likely to comply with a request to testify on Thursday in front of the committees leading the impeachment inquiry, multiple sources say.

Jennifer Williams would be the first person on Pence's national security team to appear and has knowledge of how much the vice president knew about the efforts by President Donald Trump and those around him to push Ukraine to launch investigations into Joe Biden and his son, as well as 2016 election interference, according to a source familiar with her thinking.

Williams, along with other senior administration and national security officials, was listening to the phone call on July 25 in which Trump asked for a "favor" of his newly-elected Ukrainian counterpart, President Volodymyr Zelensky, a White House source says. Trump asked Zelensky to work with his attorney general, William Barr, and personal lawyer, Rudy Giuliani, on investigations after Zelensky said he was ready to proceed with the transfer of US military aid to Ukraine.

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Pence did not listen in, but a transcript of the call was put into Pence's daily briefing binder, an administration source says.

Lawmakers will look to Williams to explain what Pence knew and when, something the source familiar with Williams' thinking says she is able to do.

Over a month after the call, Williams traveled with Pence to Warsaw when he stood in for Trump and met with Zelensky on September 1. After that meeting, Pence said they discussed corruption in Ukraine and evaded a question about whether the hold up of almost $400 million in security aid for Ukraine was tied to Giuliani's efforts to dig up dirt on Joe and Hunter Biden. There is no evidence of wrongdoing by either Biden in Ukraine.

Neven

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #162 on: November 06, 2019, 12:03:47 AM »
This is more suited to the political wrestling/theatre thread, as it's all a big distraction.
Il faut comparer, comparer, comparer, et cultiver notre jardin

Tom_Mazanec

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #163 on: November 06, 2019, 12:44:03 AM »
The two threads are inseparable.
SHARKS (CROSSED OUT) MONGEESE (SIC) WITH FRICKIN LASER BEAMS ATTACHED TO THEIR HEADS

TerryM

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #164 on: November 06, 2019, 11:59:13 PM »
How will the dynamics change when the DNC appoints their Corporate Democratic candidate? Will Bernie toe the party line again? Can the same be expected of Tulsi?
Will their followers enthusiastically support Pelosi's candidate, or will they sit this one out and plot their revenge in 2024.


Will Pelosi's pick be campaigning against Trump's withdrawal from the Paris Accords, or will the emphasis be that Trump has surrendered in Syria? It will make a difference to me.


Bernie and Tulsi
Candidates that could win - if they were allowed to run.
Terry


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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #165 on: November 28, 2019, 08:53:18 AM »
Impeachment dont play in Peoria: Trump voters wont switch

"Nearly two-thirds of voters in six battleground states who voted for President Trump in 2016 — but for Democratic congressional candidates in 2018 — say they intend to back the president against each of his top rivals,"

" He has also been intrigued by Bernie Sanders. But he’ll probably back Mr. Trump again, he said."

"Many of the voters cited economic strength as a major reason to support Mr. Trump in 2020, even if they didn’t support him last time. Also, certain voters who support Trump said they had soured on Democrats because of partisan fighting, culminating in impeachment hearings."

" “The Democratic Party fell apart on the heels of Trump winning,” he said. “The harder they’re going after Trump, the more they’re just alienating people and pushing them away.” "

“You’re all going to be very surprised because all these quiet little Christian women aren’t saying anything right now, but they are going to vote for Trump again,”

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/elections-2020/they-voted-democratic-now-they-support-trump/ar-BBXnsto

Actually the article doesn't mention Peoria. But i go thru a bunch of places mentioned like Nanty Glo,  ligonier, Scranton in PA, and a bunch in Oh, MI, Wi, WV, KY and the like. Thats what i see on the street.

sidd

Klondike Kat

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #166 on: November 28, 2019, 02:25:21 PM »
For many of those reasons, I feel that Biden is the only candidate that can defeat Trump.

TerryM

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #167 on: November 28, 2019, 03:17:35 PM »
For many of those reasons, I feel that Biden is the only candidate that can defeat Trump.
Defeat him in what way?


A contest in fathering the most compromised son?
A contest in leering at the youngest girls?
A contest involving the most Ukrainian support?


Biden is most certainly a winner, or did spellcheck screw up on whiner again.


Terry ;D

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #168 on: November 28, 2019, 03:50:34 PM »
For many of those reasons, I feel that Biden is the only candidate that can defeat Trump.
Defeat him in what way?


A contest in fathering the most compromised son?
A contest in leering at the youngest girls?
A contest involving the most Ukrainian support?


Biden is most certainly a winner, or did spellcheck screw up on whiner again.


Terry ;D

Might want to reread the post.  Who has been least involved in partisan politics, most involved with economic expansion since the last recession, and might look best to those Christians?  The issues you stated did not appear on their radar.

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #169 on: November 28, 2019, 04:58:40 PM »
For many of those reasons, I feel that Biden is the only candidate that can defeat Trump.

This is contradictory to almost any poll i've seen. Sanders always beats trump by a bigger margin than Biden. He has a high unfavourable rate. He just blew the Latino vote by outing himself as the deporter in chief once he becomes president. He will very likely lose Iowa and New Hampshire which will make him drop in the polls even more. He went from over 40% to under 30% nationally, and there is no sign of a floor for him.

This is 2019, Kat, not 1969.
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Klondike Kat

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #170 on: November 28, 2019, 06:24:33 PM »
And yet the latest rcp average has Biden leading Sanders 27% to 18%, with Warren third at 16%.  Yes, those are 2019 polls.

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #171 on: November 28, 2019, 07:02:06 PM »
Will that stay like that when he loses Iowa? Of course not.

The 'electability' myth is getting weaker by the day.
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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #172 on: November 28, 2019, 07:14:14 PM »
Will that stay like that when he loses Iowa? Of course not.

The 'electability' myth is getting weaker by the day.

I suspect it will stay that way after he loses New Hampshire also.

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #173 on: November 28, 2019, 10:03:01 PM »
For many of those reasons, I feel that Biden is the only candidate that can defeat Trump.
Defeat him in what way?


A contest in fathering the most compromised son?
A contest in leering at the youngest girls?
A contest involving the most Ukrainian support?


Biden is most certainly a winner, or did spellcheck screw up on whiner again.


Terry ;D

Might want to reread the post.  Who has been least involved in partisan politics, most involved with economic expansion since the last recession, and might look best to those Christians?  The issues you stated did not appear on their radar.
I give up - Jimmy Carter has another 4 yr.s left, but he's a little long in the tooth even for this crowd. ;D
Terry

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #174 on: November 29, 2019, 04:36:49 PM »
For many of those reasons, I feel that Biden is the only candidate that can defeat Trump.

This is contradictory to almost any poll i've seen. Sanders always beats trump by a bigger margin than Biden. He has a high unfavourable rate. He just blew the Latino vote by outing himself as the deporter in chief once he becomes president. He will very likely lose Iowa and New Hampshire which will make him drop in the polls even more. He went from over 40% to under 30% nationally, and there is no sign of a floor for him.

This is 2019, Kat, not 1969.

The latest surveyusa poll has Biden winning by the largest margin, 13%.  Sanders is a close second at 12%.  No one else is above 7%.

http://www.surveyusa.com/client/PollReport.aspx?g=5128ee79-1b59-4146-bf80-54906bb24d4b

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #175 on: November 29, 2019, 05:18:43 PM »
If the survey is anything like the website...

One point, Kat?

Noticed. ;)
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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #176 on: November 29, 2019, 05:21:42 PM »
I suspect it will stay that way after he loses New Hampshire also.

He never won a primary before, you know that, right? Why would he this time? What's different now (despite him being senile)?
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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #177 on: November 29, 2019, 05:47:30 PM »
I suspect it will stay that way after he loses New Hampshire also.

He never won a primary before, you know that, right? Why would he this time? What's different now (despite him being senile)?

He has the support of black voters, including an ex-president.

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #178 on: November 30, 2019, 12:40:14 AM »
I suspect it will stay that way after he loses New Hampshire also.

He never won a primary before, you know that, right? Why would he this time? What's different now (despite him being senile)?

He has the support of black voters, including an ex-president.
So did Clinton, and she also had the women's vote tied up. ???
I fear that the Trumpster has a winning record against Corporate Democrats, and that they haven't learned a thing since writing off their last loss to others - rather than accepting their own shortcomings. You can't learn from mistakes until you've learned to accept that mistakes were made. 8)
What mistakes did the Clinton campaign make that Biden's campaign won't repeat?
Terry

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #179 on: November 30, 2019, 12:54:12 AM »
I suspect it will stay that way after he loses New Hampshire also.

He never won a primary before, you know that, right? Why would he this time? What's different now (despite him being senile)?

He has the support of black voters, including an ex-president.
So did Clinton, and she also had the women's vote tied up. ???
I fear that the Trumpster has a winning record against Corporate Democrats, and that they haven't learned a thing since writing off their last loss to others - rather than accepting their own shortcomings. You can't learn from mistakes until you've learned to accept that mistakes were made. 8)
What mistakes did the Clinton campaign make that Biden's campaign won't repeat?
Terry

Hard to say at this point.  Let’s wait and see what happens after the primaries end.

SteveMDFP

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #180 on: November 30, 2019, 01:03:37 AM »

What mistakes did the Clinton campaign make that Biden's campaign won't repeat?
Terry

I think the reason Hillary lost was that she has the personality of a brillo pad.
Biden is likable.  Puts his foot in his mouth a bit too often, but the guy he would be running against is far worse on that score.

Klondike Kat

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #181 on: November 30, 2019, 02:56:20 AM »

What mistakes did the Clinton campaign make that Biden's campaign won't repeat?
Terry

I think the reason Hillary lost was that she has the personality of a brillo pad.
Biden is likable.  Puts his foot in his mouth a bit too often, but the guy he would be running against is far worse on that score.

Hard to argue with that.

TerryM

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #182 on: November 30, 2019, 03:23:27 AM »
^^
I didn't have a problem with Hillary's personality until she was working as Secretary of State during Obama's first term. Whether she had been better at hiding her true identity, changed during the interim, or whether I just hadn't been paying attention is moot. She'd been widely praised, at least by Democrats until that appointment. She had an approval rating of 65% at the time of her inauguration.


She'd put up a good fight for single payer healthcare during her husband's administration, and apparently had put up with a good deal from her husband. A sympathetic figure that was a popular NY Senator.


She lost to Obama because Obama was a phenom that came out of nowhere. Maybe she grew bitter, maybe her true personality came out, but by 2016 she'd changed, or my perception of her had changed.
The "brillo pad personality" won the popular vote in that election, but surplus votes in California won't win the presidency.


I don't think blaming the loss on Hillary's personality is much more valid than blaming foreign intervention. The DNC lost the election when they abandoned their base. They're doing nothing to win them back, and they could do the unthinkable and lose another one to Trump.
Terry


Klondike Kat

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #183 on: November 30, 2019, 03:41:58 AM »
That and many people are dissatisfied with the way the DNC is trying to control the process, and anoint the candidate of their choosing to gain the nomination.

sidd

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #184 on: December 04, 2019, 07:44:30 AM »
a near future scenario:

Consider a billionaire with 100 billion to spare, not so impossible these days. What law in the USA  can prevent   a promise to give 500$ to every person at every address in every electoral precinct that has a majority vote for him ?

He/She/LGBTQ  dont have to know who voted which way, but will know the results across a precinct.

Of 300 million odd, lets say 200 million in precincts that vote for him a total of 100 billion US$ , for a huge landslide.

Remember, a lot of people in the USA dont have $400 to meet an unexpected bill.

And right now we have people with that kinda change. And companies with that kinda change. And 32 trillion in hidden money in offshore accounts that could probably buy every election in the USA.

sidd

SteveMDFP

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #185 on: December 04, 2019, 02:35:09 PM »
a near future scenario:

Consider a billionaire with 100 billion to spare, not so impossible these days. What law in the USA  can prevent   a promise to give 500$ to every person at every address in every electoral precinct that has a majority vote for him ?

He/She/LGBTQ  dont have to know who voted which way, but will know the results across a precinct.

Of 300 million odd, lets say 200 million in precincts that vote for him a total of 100 billion US$ , for a huge landslide.

Remember, a lot of people in the USA dont have $400 to meet an unexpected bill.

And right now we have people with that kinda change. And companies with that kinda change. And 32 trillion in hidden money in offshore accounts that could probably buy every election in the USA.

sidd

18 U.S. Code § 597.Expenditures to influence voting
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/597#

"Whoever makes or offers to make an expenditure to any person, either to vote or withhold his vote, or to vote for or against any candidate; and

Whoever solicits, accepts, or receives any such expenditure in consideration of his vote or the withholding of his vote—

Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than one year, or both; and if the violation was willful, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than two years, or both"

Of course, circumventing the letter of such laws is part of routine politics.

blumenkraft

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #186 on: December 04, 2019, 04:44:08 PM »
Of course, circumventing the letter of such laws is part of routine politics.

Thank you Trump for showing the wold i guess...
Refugees welcome