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Paddy

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #600 on: October 01, 2020, 02:23:08 PM »
I think that what the whole tax thing really shows is incompetence as a businessman. He's not paying taxes because the income stream from his reality TV career has dried up and his businesses run at a loss (and were doing so long before he ran for president).

Also, I don't really see a contradiction as claimed by that segment. He still has a conflict of interest from lobbyists etc putting money into his businesses even if the money made merely reduces the losses run.

The Walrus

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #601 on: October 01, 2020, 02:48:54 PM »
Imagine an America where all taxes were paid in full by the rich and corporations . One in which every nook and cranny of avoidance was sorted as the new base line of responsible being .
  The trillions of dollars sucked from the environment and the rest of the world to prop up the monster would be no longer needed . Everyone could have the best of medical care etc , care homes and carers would be fully funded . and And AND ...
  only the country and it's president are bust , but wrapped up in bluff and bluster . 100 million of you cannot admit you and your 'king' are wearing no clothes . b.c.

Are you imagining an America with high taxes to pay for all these benefits?  That about all the lost benefits associated with much lower income?

sedziobs

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #602 on: October 01, 2020, 03:57:35 PM »
Wouldn't be at all surprised if Trump seems ahead on the on the day ballots in swing states that he then loses on the postal ballot count.

Florida, North Carolina, Ohio, and Arizona count the votes as they come in, rather than waiting until election day as in other swing states such as Pennsylvania, Michigan, and Wisconsin. So we could have a decent idea of the outcome of those states on election night. I don't think Trump has a chance if he loses all four of those, and losing even one or two of them puts him in a really tough spot.

The opposite effect could happen in Texas. They start counting ballots early in jurisdictions with 100,000+ people. Those areas probably lean blue, so the election night results could favor Biden before ballots from rural areas swing back to Trump over the next few days. That could put a dent in Trump's narrative.

wili

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #603 on: October 01, 2020, 04:20:04 PM »
Minnesota also starts to count absentee ballots before election day, but I'm not sure if they will disclose them the second polls are closed or not.

About a quarter of all Minnesotans who voted in 2016 did so early, and that was the first time that there was no-excuse-needed early/absentee voting. So I'm thinking that it will be more like half the votes that come in early. So yeah, I think that will tell us a lot pretty early, if they release the data the night of the election.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2020, 04:27:51 PM by wili »
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sedziobs

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #604 on: October 01, 2020, 04:40:05 PM »
Minnesota verifies ballots as they come in, but doesn't start counting until election day. Nevada and Georgia (and rural Texas) also operate this way. Maybe the counting process is quick enough to release results the same day if the ballots have already been verified though.

The Walrus

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #605 on: October 01, 2020, 05:10:47 PM »
Wouldn't be at all surprised if Trump seems ahead on the on the day ballots in swing states that he then loses on the postal ballot count.

Florida, North Carolina, Ohio, and Arizona count the votes as they come in, rather than waiting until election day as in other swing states such as Pennsylvania, Michigan, and Wisconsin. So we could have a decent idea of the outcome of those states on election night. I don't think Trump has a chance if he loses all four of those, and losing even one or two of them puts him in a really tough spot.


I think he needs to win all four just to have a chance.  Even that would put him a state of two short.  He needs to win Wis, Penna., Minn., or Mich. to claim a second term.  I think the odds are against him.

wili

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #606 on: October 01, 2020, 05:13:52 PM »
Thanks for the clarification, sedziobs. I must have misunderstood the folks at the place where I just voted early.

It looks like they open the ballots starting on the seventh day before election day and put them in 'the appropriate ballot box' but the official counting doesn't happen till the polls are closed:

https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/cite/203B.121
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Tom_Mazanec

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #607 on: October 01, 2020, 05:16:57 PM »
Isn’t the real decision when the electors vote? When is that?
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vox_mundi

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #608 on: October 01, 2020, 06:32:03 PM »
More Americans say violence is justified if their candidate loses
https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2020/10/01/political-violence-424157

A bipartisan group of pollsters, noticing a yearslong rise in such sentiment, pooled their data and wrote in Politico: “All together, about 1 in 5 Americans with a strong political affiliation says they are quite willing to endorse violence if the other party wins the presidency.” The YouGov and Voter Study Group surveys by margins of error between 1.5 to 3 percentage points; those by Nationscape, between 2 and 2.1 percentage points.

“How seriously should we take these expressions of violence? Both history and social psychology warn us to take them very seriously,” they write.

----------------------------------

25,000 veterans of the military and law enforcement are members of the armed, extremist anti-government group Oath Keepers.
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2020/11/right-wing-militias-civil-war/616473/

The Atlantic’s Mike Giglio has just posted a long feature profile of the group, after spending “months” researching and talking to its members, of which two-thirds were counted as military or LEO from small towns to the FBI, and 10 percent “active duty.” Giglio writes, “There were members of the Special Forces, private military contractors, an Army psyops sergeant major, a cavalry scout instructor in Texas, a grunt in Afghanistan. There were Immigration and Customs Enforcement officers, a 20-year special agent in the Secret Service, and two people who said they were in the FBI.”

What do they do? Like an unofficial goon squad, they show up for everything from the border with Mexico to BLM protests to Trump’s political rallies. Founder Stewart Rhodes “sent members to ‘protect’ Trump supporters from the protesters at his rallies and appeared in the VIP section at one of them, standing in the front row in a black Oath Keepers shirt.”

They bring a certain set of skills… Oath Keepers prides its success and survival on members keeping their mouths shut, but Giglio found: “A soldier with a U.S. Army email address detailed a background in battlefield intelligence, writing, ‘I am willing to use any skills you identify as helpful,’ and an Iraq War veteran pledged ‘any talents available to a former infantry team leader.’ Still others listed skills in marksmanship, SWAT tactics, interrogation.”

Why do they do it? “Rhodes had tapped into a deep current of anxiety, one that could cause a surprisingly large contingent of people with real police and military experience to consider armed political violence.” Giglio spoke to several of them. At a protest in Richmond, the veteran war correspondent summed up what he saw. “To me they had the aspect of children playing at war, only their guns were real.”

... “Asked plainly if he welcomed the support of white supremacists who ‘clearly love you,’ Trump did not register the problem with that supposition. In fact, he bobbed his head in a seemingly knowing yes motion.”

https://www.thedailybeast.com/trump-tries-to-step-out-of-the-proud-boys-mess-he-created?ref=home

-------------------------------------

Trump’s words help Russia sow division and distrust among Americans
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/30/magazine/trump-voter-fraud.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/30/us/politics/trump-debate-election.html?action=click&module=Spotlight&pgtype=Homepage

For more than four years, Trump has been issuing baseless claims of voter fraud and threatening to ignore results he doesn’t like. “But he had never before put it all together in front of such a large audience as he did on Tuesday night,” Sanger writes.

That’s a national security bottom line of two sweeping reports by the New York Times describing how Trump and his political allies are trying to

a) suppress the votes of citizens who might vote against him, and

b) cast doubt upon the electoral process so that the result can be decided by the courts or by Congress instead of by the popular vote.

Let’s take vote suppression first: “In recent years, Americans have faced a growing variety of obstacles put up by Republican officials to fight voter fraud, a problem that is largely nonexistent,” Jim Rutenberg writes in the New York Times Magazine. You probably know about many of them: tightening voter ID requirements, closing hundreds of polling places, aggressively purging voter-registration rolls, and more.

Now “it is becoming clear that the Trump administration and the Republican Party are not just looking at but heavily investing in the largely nonexistent problem of voter fraud,” Rutenberg writes. His investigation, “based on a review of thousands of pages of court records and interviews with more than 100 key players — lawyers, activists and current and former government officials — found an extensive effort to gain partisan advantage by aggressively promoting the false claim that voter fraud is a pervasive problem.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/30/magazine/trump-voter-fraud.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage

Second: Laying the groundwork to ignore the vote. Writes NYT’s David Sanger: “President Trump’s angry insistence in the last minutes of Tuesday’s debate that there was no way the presidential election could be conducted without fraud amounted to an extraordinary declaration by a sitting American president that he would try to throw any outcome into the courts, Congress or the streets if he was not re-elected.”

... Sanger writes: “Mr. Trump’s unwillingness to say he would abide by the result, and his disinformation campaign about the integrity of the American electoral system, went beyond anything President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia could have imagined. All Mr. Putin has to do now is amplify the president’s message, which he has already begun to do.”



What worries American intelligence and homeland security officials is not just the fodder for Russia’s infowar trolls, but “that over the next 34 days, the country may begin to see disruptive cyberoperations, especially ransomware, intended to create just enough chaos to prove the president’s point.”

https://www.defenseone.com/threats/2020/10/the-d-brief-october-01-2020/168922/
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Tor Bejnar

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #609 on: October 01, 2020, 06:47:23 PM »
Isn’t the real decision when the electors vote? When is that?
from https://www.archives.gov/electoral-college/key-dates
Quote
...
December 14, 2020—electors vote in their States

The electors meet in their respective States and vote for President and Vice President on separate ballots. The electors record their votes on six Certificates of Vote, which are paired with the six remaining Certificates of Ascertainment. The electors sign, seal, and certify six sets of electoral votes. A set of electoral votes consists of one Certificate of Ascertainment and one Certificate of Vote.

December 23, 2020—electoral votes arrive

Electoral votes (the Certificates of Vote) must be received by the President of the Senate and the Archivist no later than nine days after the meeting of the electors. If votes are lost or delayed, the Archivist may take extraordinary measures to retrieve duplicate originals.

On or before January 3, 2021—Archivist transfers Certificates to Congress

As the new Congress assembles, the Archivist transmits sets of Certificates to Congress, as requested. This generally happens when the Senate does not receive its set of Certificates on time. The transfer occurs in late December or early January when OFR’s Legal staff meets with representatives of the Secretary of the Senate and the Clerk of the House.

January 6, 2021—Congress counts the electoral votes

Congress meets in joint session to count the electoral votes. The Vice President, as President of the Senate, presides over the count and announces the results of the Electoral College vote. The President of the Senate then declares which persons, if any, have been elected President and Vice President of the United States.

If any objections to the electoral votes are made, they must be submitted in writing and be signed by at least one member of the House and one Senator. If objections are presented, the House and Senate withdraw to their respective chambers to consider the merits of the objection(s) under procedures set out in Federal law.
...
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Tor Bejnar

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #610 on: October 01, 2020, 09:42:54 PM »
I delivered my ballot to the Supervisor of Elections' office on Tuesday [I waited for my wife to complete her ballot so that I could take both of them in.].  Today I went to the Supervisor's website and looked myself up:
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Bruce Steele

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #611 on: October 02, 2020, 04:23:10 AM »
I learned a lot about cutting against the grain when I took ballet as a young boy. People can easily be affected by their peers. Fighting groupthink is not a choice most people make.
 Our American society seems to be picking sides these days and going against the grain are those trying to find middle ground. I am neither a good liberal or a good conservative and when I take political stands I tend to get a beating from both sides. In my opinion the internet has been the single largest contributor to our current political malaise. Fight for middle ground my friends. If we don’t stand together we will surely die separate. Yet I still cheer on the kid with the Mohawk marching against the crowd in the mosh pit. Sorry if I sound conflicted.
 I wear an Obama fleece in crowds of conservatives but I support an americans right to own a gun.
I don’t talk about guns on this site however because Neven prefers I not talk about them. I hope the left never returns to the violence of the sixties but I am afraid the left only has so much patience.
If the middle folds so does the republic.
 

sidd

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #612 on: October 02, 2020, 05:44:52 AM »
Glen Ford at blackagendarepont is not on the Biden train:

"The rich man’s media are calling it “the worst debate in modern American history,” but that’s because the truth is often painful to watch. "

"the Democratic alternative to the white supremacist Republican in the White House is — another lifelong racist, mass-incarcerating, corporate-serving, warmongering old white man. "

"In an actual democracy the Democrats would, indeed, have committed political suicide by nominating a corporate hack and career race-baiter like Biden as their standard-bearer. But the U.S. is a corporate dictatorship where the rich have two parties and the rest of us effectively have none. "

"It’s a simple formula that allows Democrats to promise their base nothing — except that they are not Trump or some other flagrant racist."

"you can’t “challenge” Biden and Harris for their anti-Black behavior as elected officials by continuing to elect them. The vote is the reward."

https://blackagendareport.com/politics-led-worst-debate

sidd


Tom_Mazanec

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #613 on: October 02, 2020, 12:43:54 PM »
With Trump in isolation I assume we won’t get any more debates, especially if he gets sick. And Biden was near him just a few days ago. Neither is a spring chicken. It is conceivable we will lose both candidates just before the election.
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AbruptSLR

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #614 on: October 02, 2020, 01:04:38 PM »
With Trump in isolation I assume we won’t get any more debates, especially if he gets sick. And Biden was near him just a few days ago. Neither is a spring chicken. It is conceivable we will lose both candidates just before the election.

With Trump testing positive and possibly having met with Pence at the White House, it is conceivable that we are talking about President Pelosi until at least January 20, 2021.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2020, 01:10:27 PM by AbruptSLR »
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Freegrass

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #615 on: October 02, 2020, 02:38:11 PM »
What would happen if Biden gets sick, and dies before the election? Who would become the nominee? Kamala, or Bernie?
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Tor Bejnar

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #616 on: October 02, 2020, 03:55:57 PM »
If a Presidential candidate dies (or otherwise withdraws from the race) after the party convention, the party organization (e.g., Republican National Committee [RNC]) selects the replacement (Mike Pence would be a likely replacement for Donald Trump and Nikki Haley would be a likely replacement for the elevated Pence).  If after ballots are printed, a vote for Trump/Pence would be a vote for (presumably) Pence/Haley.  If after the election and before Dec. 14, the RNC  would 'recommend' Republican electors vote for their chosen replacements (but the GOP electors would be free agents, at least when voting for president).  If after Dec. 14 (when electors vote) and the President-elect is 'out', the Vice-President-elect would be sworn in on Jan. 20 as President.  Per the Constitution's 25th Amendment,
Quote
Section 2. Whenever there is a vacancy in the office of the Vice President, the President shall nominate a Vice President who shall take office upon confirmation by a majority vote of both Houses of Congress.
If Trump died after Dec. 14, having received enough sympathy votes to win the election, President Pence may have a difficult time getting a VP through the Democratic House. (If the Senate was 50-50 in January, there would be no tie-breaking vote in that chamber, so maybe the Ds would keep the VP seat open 'for the duration'.  The President of the Senate would be the Senate's president pro tempore who is a member of the Senate.  [The Senate worked out a rotating president pro tempore in 1911 when neither party could 'win outright'.])
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vox_mundi

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #617 on: October 02, 2020, 05:15:37 PM »
Donald Trump showing mild 'cold-like symptoms' – reports
https://www-nytimes-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.nytimes.com/live/2020/10/02/world/covid-19-coronavirus.amp.html?amp_js_v=0.1#the-president-was-said-to-have-seemed-lethargic-at-a-fund-raiser-at-his-new-jersey-golf-club

Trump is showing symptoms of the novel coronavirus, but mild ones, according to two people familiar with his condition, reports the New York Times. Maggie Haberman writes:

The president has had what one person described as cold-like symptoms. At a fund-raiser he attended at his golf club at Bedminster, New Jersey, on Thursday, where one attendee said the president came in contact with about 100 people, he seemed lethargic.

A person briefed on the matter said that Mr. Trump fell asleep at one point on Air Force One on the way back from a rally in Minnesota on Wednesday night.

A White House official said that as of Thursday night, the president’s treatment plan was still being discussed. So was a possible national address or a videotaped statement from the president to demonstrate that he was functioning and that the government is uninterrupted.


White House chief of staff Mark Meadows confirmed the White House learned of Hope Hicks’ positive test result yesterday, as Marine One was taking off to start the president’s trip to New Jersey.

Despite that, Trump continued on to New Jersey and held a fundraising event with donors.

Gov. Philip D. Murphy of New Jersey urged people who attended Mr. Trump’s Bedminster fund-raiser to get tested and said that the state was using contact tracing to try to find them. [... super-spreader ]

-----------------------------------------

Two days before announcing he had contracted Covid-19, Donald Trump was tossing campaign baseball caps into his campaign rally crowd with his bare hands while in Duluth, Minnesota.

... smallpox blankets for the natives?

----------------------------------------

RNC Chairwoman Tests Positive for Coronavirus - Report
https://www.nytimes.com/live/2020/10/02/us/trump-vs-biden#ronna-mcdaniel-chairwoman-of-the-rnc-tests-positive-for-the-coronavirus

Ronna McDaniel, the chairwoman of the Republican national committee, has reportedly tested positive for coronavirus.

The New York Times reports:

... [McDaniel] has tested positive for the coronavirus and is experiencing mild symptoms, according to multiple people briefed on the situation. ...

She was last with Mr. Trump on Friday, and has been at her home in Michigan since then, the people briefed on the matter said.

She received her diagnosis on Wednesday, they said. After a crowded donor event in March at Mar-a-Lago, the president’s private club in Florida, Ms. McDaniel fell ill, but she tested negative at the time.


--------------------------------------

Fox News: White House coronavirus adviser Scott Atlas reacts to Trump's coronavirus diagnosis, says 'zero reason to panic'



Fox News anchor Chris Wallace, who moderated Tuesday’s presidential debate, took issue with trusting Atlas as a source of information.

“I’m going to say something, and folks, I’m just trying to give you the truth,” Wallace said. “Dr Scott Atlas is not an epidemiologist, is not an infectious disease specialist. He has no training in this area at all.”

Wallace referenced reports indicating other members of the White House coronavirus task force have raised concerns about Atlas’ credibility.

“I very much hope everything he says is true,” Wallace added. “One, he can’t know because the president is just in the earliest stages of this. And two, you know, I understand the desire of the White House and its political people to try to talk this down.”

Wallace then urged viewers to follow the advice of health experts like Drs Anthony Fauci and Deborah Birx. “Listen to the independent people who do not have a political ax to grind, and I frankly don’t think Scott Atlas is one of those people,” Wallace said.

https://mobile.twitter.com/LisPower1/status/1312025436361297930

----------------------------------------

Vice-president Mike Pence tests negative for coronavirus

If Trump becomes too ill to lead the country, the vice-president, Mike Pence, will be placed in charge. If Pence is also incapacitated, the House Speaker, Nancy Pelosi, a Democrat, would be the most likely person to take over.

... Antibody test may miss recent infections.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2020, 10:33:05 PM by vox_mundi »
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gerontocrat

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #618 on: October 02, 2020, 05:36:46 PM »
Well well well. Someone else has done a far better job on expressing an opinion about it all...extracts below.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/oct/02/trump-joked-covid-president-diagnosis-maga-virus
Trump joked while people suffered with Covid. Well, is now the time to stop?
Marina Hyde

Quote
Well, it’s definitely a plot twist. Like a lot of people who sat through Tuesday’s presidential debate, I’m amazed the week has ended with Donald Trump ingesting bleach, and not me.

As you may vaguely have heard, the US president and his wife, Melania, have tested positive for the novel coronavirus – which feels untimely given that, mere hours earlier, Trump had been declaring: “The end of the pandemic is in sight.” Perhaps this is a one-last-job movie. Alternatively, picture a Wuhan bat staring pensively into the fireplace as its butler suggests not thinking too hard about Trump’s motivations. Some poorly facepainted men just want to watch the world burn.

Still, let’s stay on track. God knows, it’s excruciatingly hard to chirp “Get well soon!” to this particular patient, but … get well soonish. Those of us who want to escape the cesspool Trump has helped drag the world into will wish him a better time with the virus than the one to which he blithely condemned so many of those he was elected to serve. Each to their own, but I’m against all forms of the death penalty, karmic or otherwise.

Jokes, though? Oh, jokes are very much permitted at this stage. I consider myself deeply pro-joke, for moral reasons. I appreciate that the Old Testament isn’t exactly a gagfest, but I believe in a joke for a joke, you know? And no one – NO ONE – has told more jokes about the coronavirus than Donald Trump. He’s the Covid Joker, if you’ll permit another Gotham callback. He would surely want us to follow his lead........

Anyway, as Trump pointed out last week, the virus “affects virtually nobody”, and has currently only affected 200,000 American nobodies to death. Arguably the real victims here are the president’s MAGA disciples, who are devoted to him but also don’t believe the virus even exists. Trump being officially diagnosed with it is category 5 cognitive dissonance – a logical contradiction so intense it could crash their circuitry, causing them to immediately lay down their assault rifles and open a chain of abortion clinics.

And so to the political implications of Trump’s Covid diagnosis, which I couldn’t predict less accurately if I were picking through some sacrificed goat entrails. Joe Biden is already under pressure to suspend his campaign, just as Trump totally would if the boot were on the other foot. Then again, who knows – maybe the boot is on both feet?

On Tuesday, the world watched the ancient esoteric ritual whereby leadership of the tribal land of America is decided by two septuagenarian males spending 90 minutes spraying spittle at each other, apparently after drinking ayahuasca. A somewhat primitive society, all told, though supposedly it’s culturally insensitive to point that sort of thing out these days.

Perhaps there’s a certain neatness to the conclusion that virtually all reality TV elimination formats now look more sophisticated than the US election. It could really only elevate the contest if Trump and Biden were forced to battle out the rest of the campaign in isolation in a multi-camera McMansion, or on a specially adapted tropical island, or atop an abandoned karaoke soundstage. Unfortunately, the entire planet has to keep watching the show for the age-old reason. Namely, that when America shits the bed, the rest of the world has to lie in it. (That’s actually not one of Henry Kissinger’s famous adages, trivia buffs, though I’m happy for it to be included in The Little Book of Realpolitik.)

On a personal level, meanwhile, it’s not clear how President Trump will cope with the standard Covid isolation lifestyle: holing up in front of endless hours of TV and communicating only by social media. He famously cheats so wantonly at golf that it’s reasonable to imagine him continuing to notch up record-breaking scorecards at his various courses while never leaving the White House.

...... it was only a couple of weeks ago that Trump was asked if he wasn’t worried about Covid spreading at his indoor rallies, eliciting the deathless reply: “I’m on a stage and it’s very far away.” Yet another reminder that all populists hate their people, some less secretly than others. This morning, it emerged that the White House had been aware of his aide Hope Hicks’s symptoms when Trump flew to a New Jersey fundraiser, where he was in much closer contact with his own supporters at a roundtable. No doubt it would be honour to be infected by him, and all that.


• Marina Hyde is a Guardian columnist

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vox_mundi

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #619 on: October 02, 2020, 06:24:15 PM »
... the gift that keeps on givin' ...

Republican Senator Mike Lee Tests Positive for Coronavirus
https://mobile.twitter.com/SenMikeLee/status/1312055257992753152

Republican senator Mike Lee of Utah announced that he has also tested positive for coronavirus.



Senator Mike Lee met with supreme court nominee Amy Coney Barrett on Tuesday, two days before Lee tested positive for coronavirus.

Senator Mike Lee was at the White House on Saturday for the announcement of Amy Coney Barrett’s supreme court nomination.

Lee hugged some of the guests at the Rose Garden event while holding his mask in his hand, disregarding coronavirus guidelines to wear a mask while in close proximity to others.

---------------------------------------

Another Republican senator at Rose Garden event for Supreme Court nominee tests positive
https://mobile.twitter.com/ESCochrane/status/1312183673811161088

This brings the total number of confirmed coronavirus cases among attendees at the event to six, CNN reporter Betsy Klein notes.



-------------------------------------

New Jersey contract tracers waited a full day on names of donors, staff exposed to Trump
https://mobile.twitter.com/mtredden/status/1312161639836180480

By late Friday afternoon, contract tracers in New Jersey were still waiting for White House and RNC officials to hand over the list of names of people exposed to coronavirus after coming in contact with Trump last night at a fundraiser at a New Jersey golf course, Huffington Post’s Molly Redden reports.

Public social media posts from some attendees of Trump’s fundraiser also show them out in public, mingling with other people, and not wearing masks, already fanning out in public across the country, even half a day after Trump’s diagnosis was made public.

--------------------------------------

Kellyanne Conway has tested positive for Covid-19, says symptoms are ‘mild’
https://twitter.com/KellyannePolls/status/1312214949658152960

She is the seventh person at the Rose Garden event announcing Amy Coney Barrett’s nomination to the supreme court to confirm she has tested positive for coronavirus.

Kellyanne was seated almost at the exact center of the triangle formed by Sen. Mike Lee, Melania Trump and Rev. Jenkins — all of whom tested positive earlier today.



Tested Positive: Left to right: Sen. Thom Tillis, Sen. Mike Lee, University of Notre Dame President Rev. John Jenkins, first lady Melania Trump, Kellyanne Conway

First row, left to right: Kate Todd, Pat Cipollone, White House Chief of Staff Mark Meadows, Attorney General William Barr, Tiffany Trump, second lady Karen Pence, Vice President Mike Pence; Second row: Kellyanne Conway

First row, left to right: Sen. Deb Fischer, Sen. Marsha Blackburn, Sen. Mike Crapo, Sen. Thom Tillis, Sen. Josh Hawley, Sen. Ben Sasse; Second row: Sen. Kelly Loeffler

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/10/02/trump-timeline-activities-425041

All they had to do is distance the chairs. They couldn’t even do the bare minimum. People should be fired over this. People would be fired over this in a normal admin.

---------------------------------------

11 coronavirus cases linked to presidential debate in Cleveland
https://clecityhall.com/2020/10/02/city-of-cleveland-statement-regarding-post-debate-covid-19-cases-update-194/

Cleveland city officials announced earlier today that they had confirmed at least 11 cases of coronavirus connected with the presidential debate held there on Tuesday.

“In total, at this time, we are aware of 11 cases stemming from pre-debate planning and set-up, with the majority of cases occurring among out of state residents,” a press release said. “At this time, though that could change, no City residents appear to have contracted the virus as a result of this event.”

https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/1312195667477979136

----------------------------------

Top leaders of Congress have had no briefing about Trump’s health. Gang of Eight hasn’t been notified about his health or informed about his transfer to Walter Reed, per multiple sources.

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi was NOT informed of President Trump’s planned movement to Walter Reed, a Democratic aide tells @kasie.

She has not had any further conversations about continuity of government planning with the White House in the intervening hours

--------------------------------------

Biden Tests Negative for Coronavirus - Report
https://mobile.twitter.com/MariannaNBCNews/status/1312063200582668288
« Last Edit: October 03, 2020, 04:58:12 AM by vox_mundi »
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ritter

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #620 on: October 02, 2020, 06:29:34 PM »
I learned a lot about cutting against the grain when I took ballet as a young boy. People can easily be affected by their peers. Fighting groupthink is not a choice most people make.
 Our American society seems to be picking sides these days and going against the grain are those trying to find middle ground. I am neither a good liberal or a good conservative and when I take political stands I tend to get a beating from both sides. In my opinion the internet has been the single largest contributor to our current political malaise. Fight for middle ground my friends. If we don’t stand together we will surely die separate. Yet I still cheer on the kid with the Mohawk marching against the crowd in the mosh pit. Sorry if I sound conflicted.
 I wear an Obama fleece in crowds of conservatives but I support an americans right to own a gun.
I don’t talk about guns on this site however because Neven prefers I not talk about them. I hope the left never returns to the violence of the sixties but I am afraid the left only has so much patience.
If the middle folds so does the republic.
Leaving lurk mode for a big +1 to all of this.

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #622 on: October 03, 2020, 12:48:54 AM »
Mail-In Balloting, the 12th Amendment and Impending Doom
https://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/political_commentary/commentary_by_ted_rall/mail_in_balloting_the_12th_amendment_and_impending_doom
Quote
Used only once -- in 1825 to elect John Quincy Adams -- the 12th Amendment triggers a bizarre "House of Cards" series of remedies guaranteed to eliminate any remaining belief that the Framers wrote a perfect document designed to withstand the test of time, or that the United States is a democracy.
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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #623 on: October 03, 2020, 03:02:50 PM »
Ritter, I hope you ,your wife and daughter are healthy and doing well. The smoke this year has my lungs kinda gunked up. What a year !

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #624 on: October 04, 2020, 12:40:31 AM »
Fake video and real truths: RepresentUs airs deepfakes of Putin and Kim Jong Un warning of election failure




sidd

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #625 on: October 04, 2020, 03:00:10 AM »
https://www.upworthy.com/people-familiar-with-stuttering-explain-bidens-extraordinary-performance-in-debate



I watched that sh*tshow and at first couldn’t figure out what Trump was doing. It dawned on me about halfway through that he was trying to trigger Biden’s stutter.

According to the polls, Trump’s performance backfired spectacularly. Most polls show Trump favored by 43 to 46% of voters. Fewer than 30% thought he won the debate.

Biden is now polling above 50% nationwide and in most battleground states. Even Iowa and Georgia are favoring Biden. This is starting to look like a landslide.

Several Senate races have tightened up too. The Democrats are now projected to win 3 to 7 seats. Three would give them a tie, so if Biden wins his legislation would pass because the Vice President breaks ties in the Senate.

ritter

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #626 on: October 05, 2020, 04:29:17 PM »
Ritter, I hope you ,your wife and daughter are healthy and doing well. The smoke this year has my lungs kinda gunked up. What a year !

Thank, Bruce. Still alive and kicking, just hunkered. It's been a hell of a year and this summer has been horrid with the Wallbridge Fire and the Glass Fire. We've had maybe a week of good air in the last two months. It isn't helping the mental health, on top of pandemic, social chaos and the election nuttiness. Here's to a return of rainfall!

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #627 on: October 05, 2020, 05:42:06 PM »
The democrats chance for a gain in North Carolina Senate race just took a nasty turn.  Cal Cunningham has admitted to sexting another woman.  This revelation cam forth shortly after Thom Tillis announced he has tested positive for Covid. 

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #628 on: October 06, 2020, 12:23:24 PM »
Does anyone have a link to tomorrow’s VP debate?
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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #629 on: October 06, 2020, 02:16:04 PM »
Does anyone have a link to tomorrow’s VP debate?
These days, multiple outlets do a live YouTube stream.  You can simply go to YouTube a couple of hours before and search for: " live 'vice presidential debate' " and you'll have a pick of streams.

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #630 on: October 06, 2020, 09:09:54 PM »
From the Nuclear Power thread comes this:
...
Awful young [reactor] to get a leak.   Early 2018 is date I have for starting up via their website.  Of course as Mr. AllThingsNuclear Dave Lochbaum used to say, you get the most problems early on and then another batch down the road.   
https://www.rosenergoatom.ru/en/npp/rostov-npp/
Paraphrasing Dave Lockbaum
  • Concerning a presidency held by the 'other' party:  you get the most problems early on and then another batch down the road.
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The Walrus

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #631 on: October 06, 2020, 11:17:59 PM »
From the Nuclear Power thread comes this:
...
Awful young [reactor] to get a leak.   Early 2018 is date I have for starting up via their website.  Of course as Mr. AllThingsNuclear Dave Lochbaum used to say, you get the most problems early on and then another batch down the road.   
https://www.rosenergoatom.ru/en/npp/rostov-npp/
Paraphrasing Dave Lockbaum
  • Concerning a presidency held by the 'other' party:  you get the most problems early on and then another batch down the road.

I think that is true regardless of which one is the "other party."

Tor Bejnar

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #632 on: October 07, 2020, 07:51:22 PM »
Absolutely!
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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #633 on: October 07, 2020, 11:28:08 PM »
Bishop Johnston tells KC Catholics to vote for Trump, twisting Pope Francis’ intent

https://www.kansascity.com/opinion/readers-opinion/guest-commentary/article246260870.html#storylink=cpy


Quote
In paragraph 101, [the Pope] states: “The other harmful ideological error is found in those who find suspect the social engagement of others” as if “the only thing that counts is one particular ethical issue or cause. … Our defense of the innocent unborn, for example, needs to be clear, firm and passionate. … Equally sacred, however, are the lives of the poor, those already born, the destitute, the abandoned and the underprivileged, the vulnerable infirm.”

Read more here: https://www.kansascity.com/opinion/readers-opinion/guest-commentary/article246260870.html#storylink=cpy
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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #634 on: October 08, 2020, 04:44:09 AM »
Well, at least that was better than the first debate.
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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #635 on: October 08, 2020, 09:44:33 AM »
Calmly told lies. Avoiding questions at all costs.

The American debating system is broken. Politicians don't want to give a hard answer for anything. Never more evident than the VP debate. We need a total overhaul in politicians and politics.
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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #636 on: October 08, 2020, 10:39:32 AM »
I've long blamed the US schools system for this. "Debating" seems to be a big thing there - the object being only to win. Belief in what you're saying doesn't matter, and neither does truth. Only winning.

In the UK, few of our schools do this. Our older universities do, though, especially Oxford. It might be a coincidence, but most of our senior Civil Servants and politicians are Oxford graduates.
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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #637 on: October 08, 2020, 07:06:49 PM »
The lies (and flies! :) ) were pretty much all from the Pence side, as confirmed here

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/10/08/vp-debate-fact-check-harris-pence-covid-19-taxes-economy/5909622002/

Harris was pretty consistently truthful, though of course she told truths that emphasized the (many) negatives of the Trump admin obviously without trying to 'balance' them with truths that give Trump credit...so a couple of here unquestionably true statements were nevertheless labeled as 'misleading'--but again, far more of Pences statements (I don't say 'answers' because he hardly actually answered any of the actual questions) were labeled misleading, and unlike Harris, tons were outright lies, and yes, told calmly without batting an eyelash (or a fly :) )
« Last Edit: October 08, 2020, 09:02:55 PM by wili »
"A force de chercher de bonnes raisons, on en trouve; on les dit; et après on y tient, non pas tant parce qu'elles sont bonnes que pour ne pas se démentir." Choderlos de Laclos "You struggle to come up with some valid reasons, then cling to them, not because they're good, but just to not back down."

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #638 on: October 08, 2020, 11:05:15 PM »
The lies (and flies! :) ) were pretty much all from the Pence side, as confirmed here

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/10/08/vp-debate-fact-check-harris-pence-covid-19-taxes-economy/5909622002/

Harris was pretty consistently truthful, though of course she told truths that emphasized the (many) negatives of the Trump admin obviously without trying to 'balance' them with truths that give Trump credit...so a couple of here unquestionably true statements were nevertheless labeled as 'misleading'--but again, far more of Pences statements (I don't say 'answers' because he hardly actually answered any of the actual questions) were labeled misleading, and unlike Harris, tons were outright lies, and yes, told calmly without batting an eyelash (or a fly :) )

I think your bias is showing.  Neither candidate was particularly truthful, and both were evasive.

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #639 on: October 09, 2020, 03:10:32 AM »
without batting an eyelash (or a fly :) )
What an apt meme. Psychopathy?

This should enter colloquial language. :D


Perfect synopsis of the more important debate of course on evil MSM MSNBC.
"She was Mamala in that moment" -- Joy Reid



... and a reminder that Obama could kill flies with his bare hands while focussing on an interview:



« Last Edit: October 09, 2020, 04:04:37 AM by Florifulgurator »
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Tor Bejnar

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #640 on: October 09, 2020, 03:20:42 PM »
Abe Lincoln's reasons for not nominating a Supreme Court justice just before the election was not because he thought whoever won should make the nomination, but was to make the appointment a non-issue, thus helping to maintain his coalition of support (conservatives and radicals) in that election.  Plus, the Senate was not in session at the time.

Kamala Harris, apparently, avoided responding to questions almost as much as Mike Pence did; she just did it with more flair.

Harris looked more poised and cheerful, for sure.

But Harris had an unforeseen challenge: nobody prepared her to debate a house fly.  By most accounts, the fly won.

***

In a video-conference meeting yesterday with my boss' boss (and a couple others - all women), she commented at the end that I was "uncharacteristically quite" during the meeting.  (A coworker was well prepared and I added only one point in the 15 minute discussion.)  I responded, after a moment's silence: "I watched the debate last night.  I was reminded on how not to act."  That got the three women talking!
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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #641 on: October 09, 2020, 03:42:14 PM »
I must admit I was annoyed by how Pence did not know how to shut up when his time ran out. Perhaps they should have a countdown clock for the debaters.
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The Walrus

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #642 on: October 09, 2020, 04:21:21 PM »
Abe Lincoln's reasons for not nominating a Supreme Court justice just before the election was not because he thought whoever won should make the nomination, but was to make the appointment a non-issue, thus helping to maintain his coalition of support (conservatives and radicals) in that election.  Plus, the Senate was not in session at the time.


Good summary.  It should be noted also that Lincoln submitted his nomination that day after the Senate reconvened in December.  Consequently, the old Senate approved his nominee.

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #643 on: October 10, 2020, 01:48:12 AM »
Biggest U.S. medical journal editorial:

Quote
[...] When it comes to the response to the largest public health crisis of our time, our current political leaders have demonstrated that they are dangerously incompetent. We should not abet them and enable the deaths of thousands more Americans by allowing them to keep their jobs.
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMe2029812

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #644 on: October 10, 2020, 04:01:00 AM »
538 national polling gives Biden a 10 percentage point lead over Trump.

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/president-general/national/
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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #645 on: October 10, 2020, 04:41:57 AM »
FBI/DHS: Government Election Systems Face Threat From Active Zerologon Exploits
https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2020/10/feds-say-active-exploits-of-critical-zerologon-bug-threaten-elections-orgs/

The FBI and the cybersecurity arm of the Department of Homeland Security said they have detected hackers exploiting a critical Windows vulnerability against state and local governments and that in some cases the attacks are being used to breach networks used to support elections.

Members of unspecific APTs—the abbreviation for advanced persistent threats—are exploiting the Windows vulnerability dubbed Zerologon. It gives attackers who already have a toehold on a vulnerable network access to the all-powerful domain controllers that administrators use to allocate new accounts and manage existing ones.

To gain initial access, the attackers are exploiting separate vulnerabilities in firewalls, VPNs, and other products from companies including Juniper, Pulse Secure, Citrix NetScaler, and Palo Alto Networks. All of the vulnerabilities—Zerologon included—have received patches, but as evidenced by Friday’s warning from the DHS and FBI, not everyone has installed them. The inaction is putting governments and elections systems at all levels at risk.

Officials wrote:

... This recent malicious activity has often, but not exclusively, been directed at federal and state, local, tribal, and territorial (SLTT) government networks. Although it does not appear these targets are being selected because of their proximity to elections information, there may be some risk to elections information housed on government networks.

CISA is aware of some instances where this activity resulted in unauthorized access to elections support systems; however, CISA has no evidence to date that integrity of elections data has been compromised. There are steps that election officials, their supporting SLTT IT staff, and vendors can take to help defend against this malicious cyber activity.


https://us-cert.cisa.gov/ncas/alerts/aa20-283a
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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #646 on: October 10, 2020, 02:29:04 PM »
538 national polling gives Biden a 10 percentage point lead over Trump.

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/president-general/national/

It will come down to a few states.  The big prize is Florida; if Biden carries the state, it is all over.  Otherwise, the election will come down to AZ, NC, MN, WI, and PA.  Biden is doing polling well in all these states, but it could get interesting if Trump wins AZ, NC and PA - the most likely states.

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #647 on: October 10, 2020, 02:56:09 PM »
Well, I hear there will be no debate on October 15.
Maybe October 22 and 29?
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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #648 on: October 10, 2020, 05:02:14 PM »
Maybe the 22.  Trump suggested it but Biden said a debate on the 29th would not happen.

My guess is there will be no more debates.  The Donald wants chaos (like the first debate) and the Commission and Joe want something more traditional.  I don't think it would serve the interests of either candidate to back down, although the Commission might.
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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #649 on: October 11, 2020, 01:38:48 PM »
Joe Biden versus “democratic norms”
http://edwardfeser.blogspot.com/2020/10/joe-biden-versus-democratic-norms.html#more
Quote
No one who claims to favor Biden over Trump on the grounds of protecting “democratic norms” can, at this point, be speaking in good faith.  They are either culpably deceiving themselves or cynically trying to deceive others.  Packing the Supreme Court would be as radical a violation of “democratic norms” as any president has ever attempted.  It would destroy the independence of the judiciary, making of the court a dictatorship for the party in power.  Yet Biden and Harris persistently refuse to say whether they favor court-packing.  Biden has now said that voters “don’t deserve” to know his position on this absolutely crucial issue before the election – even though he acknowledges that “it’s a great question” and says he doesn’t blame people for asking it!  Can you imagine the hysteria that would ensue if Trump gave such a lunatic answer to a question that momentous?  This is reason enough not to vote for Biden, whether or not you vote for Trump.
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