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crandles

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #800 on: November 05, 2020, 04:28:24 AM »
Wonder why #You're fired is trending ;o)

Freegrass

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #801 on: November 05, 2020, 04:53:07 AM »
Wonder why #You're fired is trending ;o)
Because those idiots posting on twitter didn't get out of their chair to convince enough people to vote for Biden...

But how do you sell Biden?
He's been in politics for 50 years and he's borderline senile...
But hey! That's the best us Democrats can do...
300 million Americannots, and this senile old dude is the best us democrats can do...
He got elected because Jim Clyburn told his black following they had to...

You can either vote for their idiotic geriatric in chief, or for our geriatric in chief!

You Bernie voters can all go fuck yourselves!
Vote our geriatric!
We don't give a shit about you. But Vote blue please!
No ending of fracking, but we will end fracking....
We will save the climate, but we support the fossil fuel industry...

Vote Biden, because he's not Trump or Hillary!
Lets make everything as it was, because I'm old, and I have no idea what day it is...
And so we pray...

When factual science is in conflict with our beliefs, we cuddle up in our own delusional fantasy where everything starts making sense again...

Altai

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #802 on: November 05, 2020, 07:52:20 AM »
Let me tell you how all this situation is seen from abroad (I am from Russia). First, the vote between Trump and Biden seems vote between industrial capitalists- isolationists and banksters- globalists. The first variant seems less evil because America will mind its own business, forget its global imperialist ambitions. Second, it looks as if Biden is doing some dirty tricks not to lose the electiin. I showed the graphs where all of a suddden the number of voters for Biden increased several dozen thousand without even 1 voter for Trump at the sape time interval. Its quite tipical for falsification technology used in Russia sometimes, so called " vbros". Third, USA now reminds me USSR before collapse- polifical fights, riots, historical statues destroyed, historical figures- the founders of the country becoming villians and racists in public opunion
« Last Edit: November 05, 2020, 08:21:53 AM by Altai »

Altai

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #803 on: November 05, 2020, 07:58:11 AM »
And another thing quite typical for the late USSR- all the political fugures are very old. That is sympthomatic. Though I wouldn' t like to see the collapse of the USA. It is the country with nuclear weapons and it is dangerous for all the World.

Paddy

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #804 on: November 05, 2020, 09:23:05 AM »
Altai, those jumps were from urban areas coming in late with their votes, and due to postal votes being counted last. The major split between Democrat and Republican support these days is urban vs rural. And Biden encouraged postal voting whereas Trump encouraged voting on the day.

Trump vs Biden on policy meanwhile seems to showcase climate change denial vs climate change action, so on balance Biden should be the better one for the world.

Altai

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #805 on: November 05, 2020, 09:55:54 AM »
Climate action to me personally looks like some showbiz around a neocolonial strategy to prevent other countries' economies to develop. Different words but the trick is old: ozone holes, war against terrorism, export of democracy,  red alert etc. The problems of poverty and hunger, property stratification, world economical crisis, and the future collapse of the capitalist world system are more important. Climate action is simply a way to divert attention from key issues.

Altai

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #806 on: November 05, 2020, 10:07:11 AM »
Altai, those jumps were from urban areas coming in late with their votes, and due to postal votes being counted last. The major split between Democrat and Republican support these days is urban vs rural. And Biden encouraged postal voting whereas Trump encouraged voting on the day.
All 100% of urban postal voters for Biden?

oren

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #807 on: November 05, 2020, 11:10:08 AM »
Altai, regarding the US elections you are posting out of ignorance. Votes in different counties are counted and reported at different times. Rural counties with small populations usually report first, where most votes are Republican. Urban counties with large populations usually report last, where most votes are Democrat. Study the details instead of eating someone else's propaganda.

Regarding climate change, do you believe it's a hoax? That it's not really important?

Tom_Mazanec

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #808 on: November 05, 2020, 12:21:51 PM »
The election that everyone lost.
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etienne

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #809 on: November 05, 2020, 12:50:35 PM »
Climate action to me personally looks like some showbiz around a neocolonial strategy to prevent other countries' economies to develop. Different words but the trick is old: ozone holes, war against terrorism, export of democracy,  red alert etc. The problems of poverty and hunger, property stratification, world economical crisis, and the future collapse of the capitalist world system are more important. Climate action is simply a way to divert attention from key issues.

Well, somehow I agree. Sometimes inefficient climate action is a way to divert attention, to make us think that politics are handling the issue and that we can consume further because they take care.

Tom_Mazanec

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #810 on: November 05, 2020, 12:54:48 PM »
You know, I am still getting political mail after the election. Either the candidates or the Post Office is falling down on the job.
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gerontocrat

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #811 on: November 05, 2020, 01:01:54 PM »
Altai....

....Regarding climate change, do you believe it's a hoax? That it's not really important?
If Altai believes climate change is a hoax and/or is not of importance then why is he here on this forum?

NYT reckons Biden has the best chance of getting to 270 electoral college votes. Currently 5.3% more votes than Trump - my guess on the spread poll was 5.5%, just enough.

But without the Senate, reversing the damage done by Trump et al, let alone advancing the climate action agenda....

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"And that's all I'm going to say about that". Forrest Gump
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oren

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #812 on: November 05, 2020, 01:07:44 PM »
Altai....

....Regarding climate change, do you believe it's a hoax? That it's not really important?
If Altai believes climate change is a hoax and/or is not of importance then why is he here on this forum?
The way to find out is to ask these questions...

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #813 on: November 05, 2020, 01:18:27 PM »
Altai....

If Altai believes climate change is a hoax and/or is not of importance then why is he here on this forum?

I am interested in sea ice changes and glacial dynamics, no matter if they are man-induced or natural. Yes, the climate is changing, but it has been always changing. First, I am still not sure it is anthropogenic. Second, I am not sure that we can really influence and stop this process. Third, I am not sure that the current changes are a threat to the world. A new LIA would be worse. Fourth, what I am quite sure is that the things, proclaimed by the politics and mass media only hide their real intentions. all such things are always done for the benefit of some and at the expense of others.

oren

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #814 on: November 05, 2020, 01:28:51 PM »
Wow. A full list of denier talking points. Seems you are susceptible to propaganda on more than one subject.
Be sure to keep these off the forum.

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #815 on: November 05, 2020, 01:36:14 PM »
Sorry for posting this late, but I don't regularly follow xkcd, just intermittently, and with the election I just got back to it now.
Is this a joke of his or real?
Allegedly telling/helping acquaintances in certain states to vote magnifies your vote?
https://xkcd.com/2380/
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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #816 on: November 05, 2020, 01:37:16 PM »
You asked- I answered. That's my opinion.

The Walrus

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #817 on: November 05, 2020, 01:51:49 PM »
Wonder why #You're fired is trending ;o)

Isn't it obvious?

gerontocrat

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #818 on: November 05, 2020, 02:43:12 PM »
You asked- I answered. That's my opinion.
I suggest you try https://www.skepticalscience.com/new_research_44_2020.html

They have a huge list of Global heating denier myths and the science to show it is real.
And, after that, if you still want to peddle this crap, there is always Breitbart, AmericanThinker, Heartland Institute, American Enterprise Institute etc etc who will welcome you with open arms.

And that's all I'm going to say about that

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oren

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #819 on: November 05, 2020, 03:21:54 PM »
Sorry for posting this late, but I don't regularly follow xkcd, just intermittently, and with the election I just got back to it now.
Is this a joke of his or real?
Allegedly telling/helping acquaintances in certain states to vote magnifies your vote?
https://xkcd.com/2380/
If you cause someone (of a similar political tendency as yourself) to vote, and especially if he or she is in a swing state, then obviously you have impacted the elections more than if you were just to vote yourself.

SteveMDFP

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #820 on: November 05, 2020, 03:38:55 PM »
Altai, those jumps were from urban areas coming in late with their votes, and due to postal votes being counted last. The major split between Democrat and Republican support these days is urban vs rural. And Biden encouraged postal voting whereas Trump encouraged voting on the day.
All 100% of urban postal voters for Biden?

More to the point, the numbers displayed for broadcast are not a vote-by-vote tally.  These are updated periodically from the master tally.  For a brief period of time, one candidate will show a significant increase before the other candidate's numbers are updated.  There's no skulduggery at play.  If the vote counters were really that malignant, they wouldn't be so stupid as to display their machinations.

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #821 on: November 05, 2020, 03:52:48 PM »
Free
Direct democracy only works if you have a well informed populations
Think carefully about the USA and its God addled low information population  in your rant above and allowing them to make major decisions in ballots.

i'd agree with these statements, as far as they go.  But there's a cause and effect relationship between the quality of a democracy and the state of information of the populace that works in the opposite direction.

For much of the history of America, the voting population seemed to take their responsibility quite seriously.  People read newspapers and discussed issues.  This seems to have waned after WW-II with a brief reversal in the wake of Watergate and the subsequent reforms to governance.

From the 1970s to about 2000, voter participation fell steadily.  Now voter participation has increased dramatically.

As I see it, the population became politically disengaged because voting results had little impact on policy decisions.  Why vote when it makes little difference who wins?  If voting isn't important, why read up on the issues?

For the past couple of election cycles, the matter of who wins made a huge difference.  So voter participation increased, and the population started to educate itself (though turning to Facebook and Twitter is a lousy approach to self-education).

Give the people the power of democracy and they will rise to the responsibility.  Make democracy irrelevant, and the people will become disengaged.

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #822 on: November 05, 2020, 04:29:14 PM »
Thanks, Oren.
I thought so too but was not sure of the numbers. And even obvious things aren't always so.
My Twinsburg Bulletin has an editorial asking people to vote Trump out of office.
In the November 4 edition.
This cannot be put down to a lazy candidate or the Post Office being tardy.
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vox_mundi

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #823 on: November 05, 2020, 04:43:08 PM »
Quote
... Direct democracy only works if you have a well informed populations

It can be argued that to get a well informed populis, it first requires a common corpus of truth. This is currently missing.

This has been missing (to greater and greater degrees) for the last 30 years

First cable, and now, the internet have siloed the news the population hears. Divide and conquer.

----------------------------------

The Fairness Doctrine of the United States Federal Communications Commission (FCC), introduced in 1949, was a policy that required the holders of broadcast licenses to both present controversial issues of public importance and to do so in a manner that was—in the FCC's view—honest, equitable, and balanced. The FCC eliminated the policy in 1987 and removed the rule that implemented the policy from the Federal Register in August 2011.

The fairness doctrine had two basic elements: It required broadcasters to devote some of their airtime to discussing controversial matters of public interest, and to air contrasting views regarding those matters. Stations were given wide latitude as to how to provide contrasting views: It could be done through news segments, public affairs shows, or editorials. The doctrine did not require equal time for opposing views but required that contrasting viewpoints be presented. The demise of this FCC rule has been considered by some to be a contributing factor for the rising level of party polarization in the United States.

The main agenda for the doctrine was to ensure that viewers were exposed to a diversity of viewpoints.



https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/FCC_fairness_doctrine

--------------------------------------

Rupert Murdoch and Ronald Reagan – Propaganda Pals
https://consortiumnews.com/2015/01/28/how-roy-cohn-helped-rupert-murdoch/
https://consortiumnews.com/2015/10/05/rupert-murdoch-propaganda-recruit/

... In 1987, the “Fairness Doctrine,” which required political balance in broadcasting, was eliminated, which let Murdoch pioneer a more aggressive conservatism on his TV network. In the mid-1990s, Murdoch expanded his political reach by founding the neoconservative Weekly Standard in 1995 and Fox News on cable in 1996. At Fox News, Murdoch hired scores of prominent politicians, mostly Republicans, putting them on his payroll as commentators.

Last decade, Murdoch continued to expand his reach into U.S. mass media, acquiring DirecTV and the financial news giant Dow Jones, which included The Wall Street Journal, America’s leading business news journal.

As his empire grew, Murdoch parlayed his extraordinary media power into the ability to make or break political leaders, especially in the United States and the United Kingdom. In December 2014, the UK’s Independent reported that Ed Richards, the retiring head of the British media regulatory agency Ofcom, accused British government representatives of showing favoritism to Murdoch’s companies.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/media/press/government-favoured-rupert-murdochs-media-empire-says-outgoing-ofcom-chief-9947518.html
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The Walrus

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #824 on: November 05, 2020, 06:42:26 PM »
There are many here who oppose allowing equal time to both sides of controversial issues.  Climate change readily comes to mind. 

Tor Bejnar

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #825 on: November 05, 2020, 10:54:31 PM »
I just read an article about voters voting with cross purposes.  (Like this is new!) 

Florida voted for increasing the minimum wage in Florida to $15./hr by 2026 (incrementally, from the current $8.56) - 60.8% for - 39.2% against (~10,500,000 votes cast).  In the presidential race, they voted for the person who was strongly against increasing the minimum wage (Trump) and against the person who was strongly for it (Biden) - 51.2% to 47.9% (~11,000,000 votes cast).  (Some people don't vote in every race/question they could vote on.  American general election ballots can easily have 15 or 30 races and questions, including state constitution amendment proposals to local bond issues, and even the almost always proverbial "dog catcher".)  [When I voted in New Zealand in a general election (when I was a resident there - there wasn't a citizenship requirement), there were two questions on the ballot:  (1) which party did I support for parliament (no individual by name) - I think there were 3 parties, National, Labor and Values - and (2) did I support prohibition in the local district.]
« Last Edit: November 05, 2020, 11:01:12 PM by Tor Bejnar »
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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #826 on: November 05, 2020, 11:07:06 PM »
I support a higher minimum wage and voted for Trump.
People vote this way because they pick the candidate who is closest to them on a variety of issues important to them, not the one identical to their views on all issues. If we only voted for the person who is identical to our views on all issues there would be 100 million candidates who each got one vote...their own.
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vox_mundi

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #827 on: November 05, 2020, 11:10:41 PM »


*... "A house divided against itself cannot stand" - Abraham Lincoln - June 16, 1858

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lincoln%27s_House_Divided_Speech

Gospel of Matthew 12:25; Gospel of Mark 3:25
« Last Edit: November 05, 2020, 11:33:28 PM by vox_mundi »
“There are three classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see.” ― Leonardo da Vinci

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vox_mundi

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #828 on: November 06, 2020, 12:10:18 AM »
Penny for the Guy? ...

V: Remember, remember, the Fifth of November, the Gunpowder Treason and Plot. I know of no reason why the Gunpowder Treason should ever be forgot...

Evey: Artists use lies to tell the truth while politicians use them to cover the truth up.

Valerie: Our integrity sells for so little, but it is all we really have. It is the very last inch of us. But within that inch, we are free.

“There are three classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see.” ― Leonardo da Vinci

Insensible before the wave so soon released by callous fate. Affected most, they understand the least, and understanding, when it comes, invariably arrives too late

The Walrus

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #829 on: November 06, 2020, 12:57:37 AM »
I just read an article about voters voting with cross purposes.  (Like this is new!) 

Florida voted for increasing the minimum wage in Florida to $15./hr by 2026 (incrementally, from the current $8.56) - 60.8% for - 39.2% against (~10,500,000 votes cast).  In the presidential race, they voted for the person who was strongly against increasing the minimum wage (Trump) and against the person who was strongly for it (Biden) - 51.2% to 47.9% (~11,000,000 votes cast).  (Some people don't vote in every race/question they could vote on.  American general election ballots can easily have 15 or 30 races and questions, including state constitution amendment proposals to local bond issues, and even the almost always proverbial "dog catcher".)  [When I voted in New Zealand in a general election (when I was a resident there - there wasn't a citizenship requirement), there were two questions on the ballot:  (1) which party did I support for parliament (no individual by name) - I think there were 3 parties, National, Labor and Values - and (2) did I support prohibition in the local district.]

Yes.  I never find a candidate with whom I agree on every issue.  I do the same - vote for the person with whom I agree the most.

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #830 on: November 06, 2020, 02:10:44 AM »
Election Dispute Increases Risk Of Political Violence, Analysts Warn
https://www.npr.org/2020/11/05/931829801/election-dispute-increases-risk-of-political-violence-analysts-warn
Quote
The wild card, Levin added, is that 2020 isn't like previous years. This time, a disputed election is unfolding in a polarized nation that's in the throes of a pandemic and a recession. Usually, Levin said, a burst of political violence is triggered by one big event. He's worried that prolonged uncertainty could bring waves of unrest.
"This is a whole different circumstance because usually the catalytic event has a beginning and end time," Levin said. "This is going to go on for some time."
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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #831 on: November 06, 2020, 02:44:42 AM »
To be or not to be, Homo Sapiens Erectus or Homo Sapiens Trumpensis, that is the question.
Sorry for being racist.
Google image search on my avatar image gives "wood". In fact it is the lower part of David Hilbert's tombstone.

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #832 on: November 06, 2020, 08:21:16 AM »
I support a higher minimum wage and voted for Trump.
People vote this way because they pick the candidate who is closest to them on a variety of issues important to them, not the one identical to their views on all issues.

Incidentally, what issues are you backing Trump's position on over Biden's? The economy? Handling of COVID? Healthcare in general? The environment? Domestic social issues? Foreign policy? Relative corruption levels in the two parties? General party affiliation?

And how do you feel about Trump's claims of electoral rigging, and his attempts to claim victory and stop the votes being counted?

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #833 on: November 06, 2020, 09:22:31 AM »
I support a higher minimum wage and voted for Trump.
People vote this way because they pick the candidate who is closest to them on a variety of issues important to them, not the one identical to their views on all issues. If we only voted for the person who is identical to our views on all issues there would be 100 million candidates who each got one vote...their own.
Tom you gave your vote to a candidate who is trying to get only his votes counted. Throwing lawsuits left and right, spreading misinformation and whatever. And we knew he would because he has said so himself.

I'm sorry but I cannot understand this at all. Your crybaby of a president is acting like it's impossible for him to lose a fair and square election.

The point in democracy is peaceful transition of power. You cast your votes, then you count them and then we see who won. If republicans lose the White House, there will always be new elections to win. Trump is trying to break the system.

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #834 on: November 06, 2020, 09:40:19 AM »
Yes, with his speech last night, what some are calling the most dishonest in his presidency (which is saying a lot), the don when full out criminal.

Basically he sounds like a football team who is loosing in the second half, so insists that they won because they were briefly ahead in the first half.

It's such a blatantly fraudulent 'argument,' that I can't believe that even most of his supporters are buying it...but then...
"A force de chercher de bonnes raisons, on en trouve; on les dit; et après on y tient, non pas tant parce qu'elles sont bonnes que pour ne pas se démentir." Choderlos de Laclos "You struggle to come up with some valid reasons, then cling to them, not because they're good, but just to not back down."

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #835 on: November 06, 2020, 11:12:29 AM »
Yes, with his speech last night, what some are calling the most dishonest in his presidency (which is saying a lot), the don when full out criminal.

Basically he sounds like a football team who is loosing in the second half, so insists that they won because they were briefly ahead in the first half.

It's such a blatantly fraudulent 'argument,' that I can't believe that even most of his supporters are buying it...but then...
He's very good in creating an alternate reality but isn't this going a bit too far? It's just so amazingly ridiculous and being a sore a loser never looks good on anyone.

NevB

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #836 on: November 06, 2020, 11:23:34 AM »
I support a higher minimum wage and voted for Trump.
People vote this way because they pick the candidate who is closest to them on a variety of issues important to them, not the one identical to their views on all issues. If we only voted for the person who is identical to our views on all issues there would be 100 million candidates who each got one vote...their own.

I really can't understand how someone could come here nearly everyday reading and commenting about the Arctic and climate change then vote for someone that is responsible for massively promoting climate denial, hugely damaging destruction of environmental protections and for the US sabotaging the only small hope we have in mitigating some of the inevitable damage.


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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #837 on: November 06, 2020, 11:53:02 AM »
NevB, blu_ice, and Paddy:
I voted for him because he was endorsed by Right To Life.
Thousands of babies a week are being killed by abortion in this country. This is the biggest political issue of all, imho.
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Tom_Mazanec

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #838 on: November 06, 2020, 12:22:28 PM »
Another factor is realpolitik.
I came this close to writing in Brian Carroll. If the race were not nose to nose, or if Brian Carroll had a chance to be as big as Ross Perot, I would have. But this race is really between Trump and Biden and I have to take into account one or the other of these two will win, and my vote just might decide it.
If you wanted to vote for Howie Hawkins but voted for Biden instead, I think you know how I feel.
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NevB

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #839 on: November 06, 2020, 12:48:59 PM »
NevB, blu_ice, and Paddy:
I voted for him because he was endorsed by Right To Life.
Thousands of babies a week are being killed by abortion in this country. This is the biggest political issue of all, imho.

At least that explains your reasoning and probably some reason why it's nearly 50%.

I'm not going any further with this though as the path forward from here would not lead to a good place. I really appreciate your answer though.

Tom_Mazanec

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #840 on: November 06, 2020, 01:10:25 PM »
NevB, blu_ice, and Paddy:
I voted for him because he was endorsed by Right To Life.
Thousands of babies a week are being killed by abortion in this country. This is the biggest political issue of all, imho.

At least that explains your reasoning and probably some reason why it's nearly 50%.

I'm not going any further with this though as the path forward from here would not lead to a good place. I really appreciate your answer though.

It was a decisive issue in this election. Not "the" decisive issue, because in an election this close every issue is decisive...even a fly in a debate hall.
I obtained the Right To Life voter's guide. Now, I assume Right To Life would not go through the trouble of preparing and printing and posting a voter's guide for my sole personal benefit. Thus I assume there are many thousands of people for whom this is a decisive issue.
I know the NRA does the same, and I am sure there are others. That is why, imho, this issue (and all other, even the Musca domestica) belongs on this thread, as much as Neven and the moderators may dislike it.
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RikW

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #841 on: November 06, 2020, 01:40:46 PM »
Yeah, in my eyes there where issues (climate f.e.) that are more example, but I think the USA has a couple of problems. And I like the idea how Senate (based on states) and House (based on # citizens) are chosen. That way you make oppression of the majority less likely to occur. But some other things should really change!

1. Voting should be easy and available to all citizens.
In the Netherlands you can only be excluded from the right to vote by a court decision, and only when you are convicted for a crime with at least a 1 year jail sentence and there must be a serious infringement of the foundations of the Dutch constitution. This hasn't happened for years.

2. You have a 2-party system, which means it is extremely difficult for new parties to succesfully enter the political arena. And I think that is because of the winner takes all system. In your largest state, California which has around 40M citizens, thus ~13% of the citizens, it doesn't really matter if/ what you vote, because the majority is democratic. Where you live in the USA decides if your vote matters.

With more parties, you'd have more choices and make it hopefully also more difficult for the large corporations to influence politics. Now they only have to 'bribe' republicans and democrats, which as an outsider I think they are doing really good. Okay, it's not good that they do it, but they manage it remarkably well.

I'm be curious to see how many people are really happy with that they voted Biden or Trump. I won't be suprised if the majority voted for him because of 1/2 issues and the fact he isn't the other party. The lesser evil of 2 evils.

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #842 on: November 06, 2020, 01:59:54 PM »
Trump is and always has been a clown and an embarrassment to America. That was the case before he was elected President and remains the case now. With climate destabilization well under way our ability to grow enough food to feed 7+ billion people is becoming compromised. I'd say that bringing extra lives into this world is immoral and criminal based on that. If one truly cares about life then don't bring another human life into this world. Wanting to shove more people on to the planet is an indication that you clearly don't value life at all.

The Walrus

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #843 on: November 06, 2020, 02:08:36 PM »

I'm be curious to see how many people are really happy with that they voted Biden or Trump. I won't be suprised if the majority voted for him because of 1/2 issues and the fact he isn't the other party. The lesser evil of 2 evils.

An exit poll showed that of those who voted for Trump, 75% said they voted for him and 22% against Biden.  Of those who voted for Biden, 54% stated that they voted for Biden, while 44% said they voted against Trump.  Clearly, it was more a referendum about the Trump presidency. 

https://morningconsult.com/exit-polling-live-updates/#section-19

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #844 on: November 06, 2020, 02:47:40 PM »

Tom_Mazanec

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #845 on: November 06, 2020, 03:24:51 PM »
Jacobus
I agree. But humans come into existence at conception, not birth.
I would be willing to see the Right lose every battle in the Culture War except Right to Life.
pikaia
That is the best Downfall I have seen yet!
Everybody
Have the military mail in ballots been counted? Could they make a difference?
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Tor Bejnar

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #846 on: November 06, 2020, 03:38:03 PM »
As more ballots were counted and results released, Biden is now ahead in both Georgia and Pennsylvania.  Several media outlets have shown that it is unlikely for Trump to overtake Biden in these two, and Arizona and Nevada (based on recent trends for which there is no evidence won't continue for the remaining mailed-in ballots [e.g., here] - overseas military votes that can still arrive may have their own 'trends' but will be numerically insignificant).  It is unlikely for Biden to overtake Trump in North Carolina.  Alaska, unclaimed by some media, will go to Trump.

Most likely outcome:
Biden 306 electoral votes
Trump 232 electoral votes

These are the same numbers that came out of the 2016 election, reversed by party (before several electors went rogue on each side)
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be cause

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #847 on: November 06, 2020, 04:26:27 PM »
I'm delighted for my dear late Georgian friend , Shanti , who passed last year . It was trump winning wot killed her .. she was a big fan of Bernie and lost heart with the dumb bald rump taking the WH . Her spirit will enjoy the swing in Georgia as much as I do .
p.s. Happy birthday Shanti !  :)
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vox_mundi

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #848 on: November 06, 2020, 05:41:12 PM »


“There are three classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see.” ― Leonardo da Vinci

Insensible before the wave so soon released by callous fate. Affected most, they understand the least, and understanding, when it comes, invariably arrives too late

Tor Bejnar

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Re: Elections 2020 USA
« Reply #849 on: November 06, 2020, 05:57:56 PM »
My solution to the Electoral College 'problem' (problem for liberals, anyway) is to increase the size of the House of Representatives by 1/3 (leaving 5 states with 1 Representative - this was 'calculated' by making the smallest state's population the basis for each Rep.).  This would dilute the 'over representation' of the smallest state from a factor of 3.8 to just under 3 over the largest state.  (Doubling the size of the House would bring this factor to nearly 2.5.) 

Despite the (apparently) slavery-influenced formula for determining how the U.S. president is elected, I appreciate that small states have 'extra' leverage towards determining who the president is.  We have a 'federal' government, after all.

Congress (with the support of the President), by the way, determines the size of the House of Representatives, last changed (I think) in 1911.  Each state's delegation size is determine by the Constitution-mandated Census. 
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