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magnamentis

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Re: Political theatre/wrestling
« Reply #50 on: December 01, 2018, 09:32:40 PM »
It's difficult to understand why so many Europeans don't understand who their enemy is. I'd always understood that many Europeans were fluent, at least to some degree in English.
Terry

99.9% (one exception) of all the people in europe and elsewhere know exactly who the real evil-doers are since they camouflaged as natives and killed their own people to get the cavalry.

however that might be for a few reasons like:

- the kind of people i talk to ;)

- the kind of people i know would never get involved in this system, no matter which country

- the kind of people i meet but don't know i meet in places where the conformists don't usually meet, at least not in masses, not snobby enough probably.

- i wouldn't go very far with someone who's idolizing the wrong people and things.

but however that may be terry, there are very many people over here in europe who know exactly what's going on and who the enemy is but rather disconnect from the system than fight agains
windmills like "Don Quixote"

BTW i like the whiff of anger i believe to have sniffed, let's teach our descendants and those around us an, knowledge and understanding are the only ways to beat the system which is why they tried so hard to hide knowledge from the average people and that will change hopefully.

in fact i fear that they'll find their ways to deprive our descendants from the sources soon, in part certain search algorithms and other restrictions already hint into that direction and clean the road for when it's gonna happen, let's see ;)

nice weekend @all
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TerryM

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Re: Political theatre/wrestling
« Reply #51 on: December 01, 2018, 10:36:10 PM »
It's difficult to understand why so many Europeans don't understand who their enemy is. I'd always understood that many Europeans were fluent, at least to some degree in English.
Terry

99.9% (one exception) of all the people in europe and elsewhere know exactly who the real evil-doers are since they camouflaged as natives and killed their own people to get the cavalry.

however that might be for a few reasons like:

- the kind of people i talk to ;)

- the kind of people i know would never get involved in this system, no matter which country

- the kind of people i meet but don't know i meet in places where the conformists don't usually meet, at least not in masses, not snobby enough probably.

- i wouldn't go very far with someone who's idolizing the wrong people and things.

but however that may be terry, there are very many people over here in europe who know exactly what's going on and who the enemy is but rather disconnect from the system than fight agains
windmills like "Don Quixote"

BTW i like the whiff of anger i believe to have sniffed, let's teach our descendants and those around us an, knowledge and understanding are the only ways to beat the system which is why they tried so hard to hide knowledge from the average people and that will change hopefully.

in fact i fear that they'll find their ways to deprive our descendants from the sources soon, in part certain search algorithms and other restrictions already hint into that direction and clean the road for when it's gonna happen, let's see ;)

nice weekend @all


The democratization of knowledge that the internet has brought to us all may prove to be an ephemeral gift. I don't think that it can be argued that TPTB are happy that we now have access to much of the information that they were once able to use to keep us in line.


The alternative search engines are giving us some breathing room, but they've responded by opening Overton windows ever further from whatever passes for the truth, then dangling false narratives for us to embrace.


With AI being pushed by Cambridge Analitica and it's ilk, politicians can refine their message until black appears white.


Somehow we need to keep whatever message we're following brightly enough lit that it can't be obscured by untruths fed to us by dishonest pitch men, who's primary motivation is our disenfranchisement.


When we're privy to an American official telling another American official that they're going to meddle in the affairs of a European country, and that the wishes of Europe mean nothing to them, then we need to object at the ballot box when our politicians don't respond to this affront.


If American LNG is a better product at a better price than the Russian alternative, then our politicians should be welcoming it.
If Russian Piped gas is available at a better price, this option should be made available.


Believing that the country that says FORK YOU has your best interests at heart is foolish at best, and I don't think anyone can afford foolish politicians in these perilous times.
Terry

magnamentis

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Re: Political theatre/wrestling
« Reply #52 on: December 02, 2018, 01:43:10 AM »
.......need to object at the ballot box when our politicians don't respond to this affront.


while i agree with what you say there is a little problem with the ballot box:

- there is no sound alternative, it's the same medal with different colors on each side

- the only ballot box i know has a real value is the swiss one and while even there the gov
. is watering the will of the people until it can hardly be recognized, the people can bring the
. same topic up again and again until they comply in an acceptable manner, even though it takes
. a lot of time to achieve a goal that way and in the mean time the money and the lobbies seek and
. find new loopholes.

nevertheless, voting with the wallet and by civil disobedience is the way to go while it comes
with a price tag that is either money, reputation, safety or all of them.

the day i decided to learn to say no my income dropped by 90% and the numbers of so called "friends" as well LOL, of course i'm a happy man with what remains which is what they will never
understand, that less can be much more, not say mostly is much more.

another thing i recognized is that the system is getting fully aware of those who are willing to opt out without living under the bridge and consider them as dangerous and instead of beheading people like before they make them kind "persona non-grata" and not that many are strong enough to withstand that pressure with it's impact on the family and the business relationships.

last but not least it takes quite a few extra skills to manage over decades and it takes the luck to have the right citizenship. there are jurisdiction where it's a lot harder than in others.

this is meant to add to what you said without taking a single "jota" away ;) i fully agree

 8)
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Lurk

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Re: Political theatre/wrestling
« Reply #53 on: December 03, 2018, 05:09:28 AM »
"I've never done anything in politics that was outside the norms of my colleagues and contemporaries," Roger Stone said Sunday in an interview with ABC's George Stephanopoulos.

STONE: Well, it suggests nothing at all. Again, where is the crime? I engaged in politics. My purpose was to take a tip, which I thought to be solid, and then, after that, to follow the WikiLeaks Twitter feed and set a Google News alert for Julian Assange and use Twitter to hype as much voter and media attention to the disclosures when they came as politics.

Well here it is, finally, in Roger Stone's own words in a interview video yesterday - confirming what Julian Assange, Wikileaks, Jimmy Dore, Aaron Mate and myself had been saying all along - and also yes Roger Stone does lie and exaggerate and misdirect and propagandize as a hired Political PR Hack and is a "Dirty Trickster" no less! but that is all.

Roger Stone: No Evidence I Ever Contacted WikiLeaks; "I Engaged In Politics" (video)
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2018/12/02/roger_stone_no_evidence_i_ever_contacted_julian_assange_or_wikileaks.html

However, on the flip side is Rep. Adam Schiff, the top Democrat on the House Intelligence Committee who said: Roger Stone's comments are not credible and inconsistent with what he told the Committee.
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2018/12/02/schiff_the_trump-russia_compromise_is_far_broader_than_we_thought.html

Oh who to believe now? :)
« Last Edit: December 05, 2018, 11:03:29 AM by Lurk »
American journalist Walter Lippmann observed, “Where all think alike, no one thinks very much!”

NevB

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Re: Political theatre/wrestling
« Reply #54 on: December 04, 2018, 01:37:38 AM »
Just Theatre

Quote
President Donald Trump’s company planned to give a $50 million penthouse at Trump Tower Moscow to Russian President Vladimir Putin as the company negotiated the luxury real estate development during the 2016 campaign, according to four people, one of them the originator of the plan.

Two US law enforcement officials told BuzzFeed News that Michael Cohen, Trump’s personal lawyer at the time, discussed the idea with a representative of Dmitry Peskov, Putin’s press secretary.

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/anthonycormier/the-trump-organization-planned-to-give-vladimir-putin-the


Because representatives of press secretaries need to be kept in the loop. ::)
Terry

I let this pass at the time, now I have a moment to reply.

You point out that the Russian's they were negotiating with may not be directly connected to Putin, but this is irrelevant to whether Cohen's (and almost certainly Trump's) actions were illegal.

Quote
https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2018/12/02/trump-presidency-threatened-50-million-penthouse-gift-putin-column/2169500002/

TerryM

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Re: Political theatre/wrestling
« Reply #55 on: December 04, 2018, 02:22:35 AM »
Just Theatre

Quote
President Donald Trump’s company planned to give a $50 million penthouse at Trump Tower Moscow to Russian President Vladimir Putin as the company negotiated the luxury real estate development during the 2016 campaign, according to four people, one of them the originator of the plan.

Two US law enforcement officials told BuzzFeed News that Michael Cohen, Trump’s personal lawyer at the time, discussed the idea with a representative of Dmitry Peskov, Putin’s press secretary.

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/anthonycormier/the-trump-organization-planned-to-give-vladimir-putin-the


Because representatives of press secretaries need to be kept in the loop. ::)
Terry

I let this pass at the time, now I have a moment to reply.

You point out that the Russian's they were negotiating with may not be directly connected to Putin, but this is irrelevant to whether Cohen's (and almost certainly Trump's) actions were illegal.

Quote
https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2018/12/02/trump-presidency-threatened-50-million-penthouse-gift-putin-column/2169500002/


I believe I was attempting to point out that covert operations are not usually handled so publicly.


AFAIK the latest is that Mueller's acceptance of parts of Cohen's testimony prove that the Orange One and President Putin are both in the clear.


I'll see if I can find the article if you'd be interested.
Terry

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Re: Political theatre/wrestling
« Reply #56 on: December 04, 2018, 03:00:51 AM »
Just Theatre

Quote
President Donald Trump’s company planned to give a $50 million penthouse at Trump Tower Moscow to Russian President Vladimir Putin as the company negotiated the luxury real estate development during the 2016 campaign, according to four people, one of them the originator of the plan.

Two US law enforcement officials told BuzzFeed News that Michael Cohen, Trump’s personal lawyer at the time, discussed the idea with a representative of Dmitry Peskov, Putin’s press secretary.

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/anthonycormier/the-trump-organization-planned-to-give-vladimir-putin-the


Because representatives of press secretaries need to be kept in the loop. ::)
Terry

I let this pass at the time, now I have a moment to reply.

You point out that the Russian's they were negotiating with may not be directly connected to Putin, but this is irrelevant to whether Cohen's (and almost certainly Trump's) actions were illegal.

Quote
https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2018/12/02/trump-presidency-threatened-50-million-penthouse-gift-putin-column/2169500002/


I believe I was attempting to point out that covert operations are not usually handled so publicly.


AFAIK the latest is that Mueller's acceptance of parts of Cohen's testimony prove that the Orange One and President Putin are both in the clear.


I'll see if I can find the article if you'd be interested.
Terry

Thanks, drop a link if you come across it and I will read it.

We'll probably be quiet distracted by something else though by the time you find it.


TerryM

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Re: Political theatre/wrestling
« Reply #57 on: December 04, 2018, 05:15:25 AM »


Neven

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Re: Political theatre/wrestling
« Reply #59 on: December 04, 2018, 12:23:44 PM »
https://billmoyers.com/2014/06/27/the-first-iraq-war-was-also-sold-to-the-public-based-on-a-pack-of-lies/?utm_source=samizdat&utm_medium=partner&utm_campaign=free

This isn't political theatre. These are true things that deserve every attention they get, even almost 30 years later. Better suited in the US Empire thread.
Compare, compare, compare

Lurk

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Re: Political theatre/wrestling
« Reply #60 on: December 05, 2018, 12:11:03 AM »
The Mueller investigation and the Roger Stone "drama" claims and denials blah blah. Several Randy Credico i'views by Jimmy Dore have been posted here before.

Randy Credico Exclusive Tell-All with Abby Martin on Wikileaks & Roger Stone

In this exclusive extended interview, Randy Credico tells his side of the story on his role in the Russia investigation, his upcoming interview with Special Counsel Robert Mueller, and true nature of his relationship with Trump campaign advisor Roger Stone.

With never before revealed details about Roger Stone and the Mueller investigation, Credico details his long-standing ties to the political operative and answers the hard questions about his alleged coordination with Wikileaks. The interview highlights the larger context of the multi-front assault on Julian Assange, Wikileaks and the future of press freedom.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Randy_Credico
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Red

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Re: Political theatre/wrestling
« Reply #62 on: December 08, 2018, 01:06:05 AM »
https://billmoyers.com/2014/06/27/the-first-iraq-war-was-also-sold-to-the-public-based-on-a-pack-of-lies/?utm_source=samizdat&utm_medium=partner&utm_campaign=free

This isn't political theatre. These are true things that deserve every attention they get, even almost 30 years later. Better suited in the US Empire thread.

Wasn't sure where to put it. Seems that it might fit in a number of threads.

Lurk

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Re: Political theatre/wrestling
« Reply #63 on: December 08, 2018, 04:40:46 AM »
In my view, the issue of Hillary Clinton's private email server will not disappear from the consciousness of the polity unless/until there is an Independent Special Counsel appointed to investigate it and/or a Grand Jury is formed on the matter.

There is sufficient prima facie evidence already in existence that such steps are warranted. And that given the extreme political nature of this issue, over 5 years now, no other 'Agency' or form of inquiry is capable of properly getting to the facts.

Not the Media, not the Congress and not the current Courts processes are capable of bringing this matter to a proper defined end. As the WP article here already indicates, though not overtly enough imv:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/legal-issues/judge-orders-justice-state-departments-to-reopen-narrow-inquiry-into-handling-of-clinton-email-records-lawsuit/2018/12/06/71d03530-f9a1-11e8-863c-9e2f864d47e7_story.html

I found the terminology used by the judge most amusing, in the sense that many of his terms could easily be applied to the actions and words of Hillary Clinton herself based on what we already know - or rather what is known on the Public record but which is 99% of the time not known by the Public in general to a great extent. Most are utterly ignorant of the known facts as they stand already - nor the critical context in which those facts can be seen in their 'true light.'

Plus the terminology would equally apply to all those who intentionally colluded with her to facilitate her breaches of U.S. Government Regulations for Secretaries and Employees, and those who further acted to minimize the damage after the event. Including lying to the FBI and to Congress, which is an Indictable Felony as we all know by now given the high profile Mueller investigation.

The core fact is: Clinton exclusively used a private email account as secretary from 2009 to 2013.

Phrases I believe apply are:

“faced with one of the gravest modern offenses to government openness ... fell far short"

“the [ex-SoS Clinton] made things worse” by taking the position that [SHE was not obliged to immediately hand over HER records] not in the government’s possession [in January 2013 before any FOIA requests were made.]

“smacks of outrageous misconduct.”

“negligence born of incompetence,”

“At worst, career employees in the State and Justice departments colluded to scuttle public scrutiny of Clinton, skirt FOIA, ....”

questions persist into whether: “Clinton used a private email to stymie FOIA"

References:
https://vault.fbi.gov/hillary-r.-clinton
https://www.fbi.gov/news/pressrel/press-releases/statement-by-fbi-director-james-b-comey-on-the-investigation-of-secretary-hillary-clinton2019s-use-of-a-personal-e-mail-system
https://www.congress.gov/congressional-report/114th-congress/house-report/848/1
https://fas.org/irp/congress/2013_hr/benghazi.pdf
https://apps.npr.org/documents/document.html?id=4515892-2016-Election-Final-Report-06-14-18-0
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillary_Clinton_email_controversy

Electronic records show Peter Strzok, who led the investigation of Hillary Clinton’s private email server as the No. 2 official in the counterintelligence division, changed Comey’s earlier draft language describing Clinton’s actions as “grossly negligent” to “extremely careless,” the sources said.
https://wreg.com/2017/12/06/fbi-agent-changed-key-phrase-in-clinton-email-report

The tip of an iceberg of lies, half-truths, disinformation, silencing, (im)plausible deniability, collusion, bias, incompetence, negligence, gullibility, fear-mongering, dishonesty, obnubilation, and distraction.

Clearly, or it should be now, this entire subject, the Clinton's personally, and all those intimately connected with this matter are very much the classic example of all that "is rotten in Denmark" today over the recent decades.
American journalist Walter Lippmann observed, “Where all think alike, no one thinks very much!”

Lurk

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Re: Political theatre/wrestling
« Reply #64 on: December 08, 2018, 10:19:46 AM »
Jimmy with Aaron Mate with a sidebar about the little known never reported Israeli connection with Mike Flynn and that Russian Ambassador.



Michael Flynn Plea Agreement Documents
https://www.lawfareblog.com/michael-flynn-plea-agreement-documents

Document: U.S. Attorney's Office for the SDNY and Special Counsel's Office File Michael Cohen Sentencing Memo
https://www.lawfareblog.com/document-us-attorneys-office-southern-district-new-york-and-special-counsels-office-file-michael
« Last Edit: December 08, 2018, 10:51:17 AM by Lurk »
American journalist Walter Lippmann observed, “Where all think alike, no one thinks very much!”

Lurk

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Re: Political theatre/wrestling
« Reply #65 on: December 08, 2018, 11:59:32 AM »
continuing on .....

Document: U.S. Attorney's Office for the SDNY and Special Counsel's Office File Michael Cohen Sentencing Memo
https://www.lawfareblog.com/document-us-attorneys-office-southern-district-new-york-and-special-counsels-office-file-michael

Cohen looks like he'll be in an orange jumpsuit for a long while ~4 years maybe? I can't see Manafort doing any less. (any pardon or clemency aside)

My reading is much will be dependent upon Trump's answers he provided to Mueller as to how bad it will get for him. But it is going to get bad eventually one way or another. I still doubt he'll will need to deal with an allegation of "collusion". It all sounds more like an episode of the Keystone Cops (not Mueller, the various characters involved all over the place.)

But tell me this - how does a fleabag like Cohen get to be on a salary of $500,000 for a couple of decades, skip on paying taxes on over $6 mln, and keep doing dirty deals for so long? It's not like he and the Trump business group are exceptions to the rule either. Just boggles the mind.

There's a flip side to all this I think is going to make a great movie one day, if they do it properly, and don't only focus on Trump and his team alone. Trump entered the race as a PR stunt to influence the renegotiation his Apprentice TV deal. He didn't need to win merely act it out. But he "loved" it so much they kept on going. They never expected to win a single Primary, but they did. They never expected to win the nomination, but they did. Then they never really expected to win the election either, but they did. The most inexperienced untrained bunch of monkeys ever to run a Presidential campaign and they beat all comers. Now that's a good story. But the kicker is that if he had never won the nomination all this Mueller stuff, and all those caught out lying, evading their taxes, doing crooked deals would never ever have been caught. The whole world would be none the wiser.

In my mind this is really the real story coupled with the multitude of personal connections and the "personalities" of all these players .... and the unlikely occasional genuine folk like Mike Flynn and Rex Tillerson who all caught in the trap to be screwed in the process as collateral damage. Must be hundreds of those still feeling like road kill atm.

I was reflecting back on what I could remember about the time Trump was first trying to form a cabinet. And I thought to myself, you know, I wonder how many people point blank turned him down before finally Tillerson said yes, OK I'll do it. Now look what it is like: Pnac Neocon Central v2.0. I really can't help laughing about it - I started laughing in the middle of 2016 and honestly haven't stopped.

Yeah I know it's serious but it is also incredibly funny too, if you stop and think about it.

Would you ever believe that .................... ? No no, it's true. Really! Roger 'bloody' Stone of all people too. Yeah, I know, I know. :)

On a much more serious note, what does this all say about the Institutions and the System as a whole in which this all occurred, right there out there in the open more or less?
American journalist Walter Lippmann observed, “Where all think alike, no one thinks very much!”

Lurk

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Re: Political theatre/wrestling
« Reply #66 on: December 08, 2018, 03:17:59 PM »
American journalist Walter Lippmann observed, “Where all think alike, no one thinks very much!”

Lurk

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Re: Political theatre/wrestling
« Reply #67 on: December 08, 2018, 10:37:17 PM »
Just how 'smart' are these 'movers and shakers' one-step removed from the current President?

The docs on Cohen are most insightful they are worth the time to read. About him and about how the Trump enterprise do "business". I wouldn't worry too much on the 'political' aspects alone but consider these are unlikely to be exceptions to the rule but are The Rule ... of an uncountable many far away from anything to do with Trump.

One example covered is Cohen owned Taxi medallions. He then vendor financed two players who used his rights to set up. They paid him a fee for use of the medallions plus interest on the loans he provided them. (more or less) But Cohen needed to raise about $14 million (?) in loans himself to make this work from several sources. This is about the same time he went being a $75k yr lawyer to a $500k Trump Corp lawyer after swinging a deal on a condo that helped Trump not lose face.

Anyway Cohen kept up his loan repayments to the Taxi deals, and the people who ran those companies kept up their end by paying him his fees and interest etc on time for years. The funny thing, according to the SDNY docs is that Cohen made them pay their accounts to his "personal bank account" and never told his Accountant about that, and so just pocketed the money unaccounted for, I think that was about $6 mln all up over many years.

So think about that a moment about how "smart" he is, and he's a Lawyer?

Made multi-million dollar deals that included bank funding loans on the record, ownership of Medallions on the record, and then had all this money pouring into his personal bank account month after month after month for over a decade and then some, on the record.

Smart man?

What does it tell us about the System though?

Smart system?

And if Trump never ran for President or won? Then what? What Cohen was doing would still be happening right now.

Like the millions of others lucky enough to not be closely connected to a 'Trump' this time.  And yet it's the IRS that are said to be the "bad guys"? Huh?

I bet my house that Minimum Wage earners at McDonald's are forced to pay every penny of their Taxes. And the IRS appears to have strict Auditing controls to flag Fraud in it's own activities:
https://www.irs.gov/irm/part1/irm_01-035-014#idm139717563936432


https://www.forbes.com/sites/ashleaebeling/2018/03/29/irs-official-audit-rate-down-but-the-real-audit-rate-is-the-problem/

(somewhat off-topic on theater but I still feel it's 'entertaining' material and relevant in the big picture of the reality)
American journalist Walter Lippmann observed, “Where all think alike, no one thinks very much!”

Lurk

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Re: Political theatre/wrestling
« Reply #68 on: December 09, 2018, 05:05:24 PM »

References:
https://vault.fbi.gov/hillary-r.-clinton

https://www.fbi.gov/news/pressrel/press-releases/statement-by-fbi-director-james-b-comey-on-the-investigation-of-secretary-hillary-clinton2019s-use-of-a-personal-e-mail-system

The House Oversight Committee has released a 235-page transcript of Comey's grilling 24 hours after the former FBI director was questioned by lawmakers on the Capitol Hill.
https://judiciary.house.gov/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/Comey-interview-12-7-18_Redacted.pdf

oooh aah things may get a little bumpy for some. Much 'plausible deniability' going on here, some shifts in the narratives, surface bias but little real evidence to hang one's hat on. Most likely prognosis is that nothing much will come of this unless a whistle-blower exists.

Rep. Jim Jordan (R-Ohio) counted that Comey answered "don't know" a whopping 166 times, "I don't remember" – 71 times and "I don't' recall" – 8 times.

---
I believe Trump will come to regret going soft on HRC post election and Comey/FBI as well. Objectively putting all partisanship issues aside Trump was an outsider and had never really learned first hand or experienced how the 'political beast' really operates. Or how 'incompetent' and 'biased' bureaucracies such as the FBI and DoJ can play out. And the limits of what Congressional Hearings can get to in the normal course. Seems to me the Auditor was far more critical of Clinton and staff than the FBI was.

I think Trump will end up wishing a special prosecutor had been appointed to totally re-evaluate the Clinton investigations from Benghazi / 'email server' issues all the way up to 2016 and Huma's laptop, and find out what was done and not done by the FBI and what was known and not known at State.... and anything that fell out of the bushes along the way

We have no idea where Mueller is at of course but there must be something coming next. I suspect the Donald is going to be for a world of hurt eventually no easier than Bill copped in the 90s and perhaps more similar to the pressures on Nixon. Who knows? History shows that newbie inexperienced 'cowboy operations' never get far in 'politics' - they don't know the rules of the game and don't have enough experienced people with authority/gravitas around to stop dumb things from happening. Trump had no one. He still doesn't. Bad judgement and overconfidence always comes back to bite us on the as, eventually.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2018, 06:04:19 PM by Lurk »
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Re: Political theatre/wrestling
« Reply #69 on: December 10, 2018, 01:20:56 PM »
a little curiosity fwiw

After some lengthy research a group of people came up with a suggested list for mandatory Ethical Standards to apply to all members of a political party, in particular those elected to Office - be they at a local county level or in the national Parliament. 

The key Ethical norms were formulated as follows though I have slightly amended them for clarity:

- to always treat people and their problems with respect and attention, help them in protecting their rights, in restoring justice, in overcoming difficult life situations;

- to exclude actions and statements that may lead to the infringement of human rights and freedoms, to be responsible for the spoken word, to prevent statements that degrade the dignity of people;

- To be intolerant of attempts to revise and distort the national history, disregard its traditions, the spiritual values ​​of our peoples, the manifestation of disrespect for its culture, and the unique experience of multi-ethnic unity and multi-cultural diversity;

- To adhere to the principle of personal modesty and restraint in public behavior;

- In response to public accusations of committing illegal or immoral acts, publicly defend their honor, dignity and reputation by all legal means. In the event that the charges of committing crimes or misconduct are true and discredit the Party, immediately resign from all party posts;

- To openly express and defend their position during party discussions on Policy, after making a final decision to adhere to the collegial party position;

- To fulfill their and the party's commitments made to people, to personally and regularly report on the execution of orders, promises, appeals of citizens, the implementation of electoral programs;

- All members to be mindful that the party role is to represent people and works for them.

Therefore, in the event that their activity or behavior contradicts party ethics, these people must bear the personal responsibility commensurate with their actions. 

---

Comments?

Too much to expect of people in politics?

Too controlling or limiting?

Leave it to the people to vote them out when they screw up?
American journalist Walter Lippmann observed, “Where all think alike, no one thinks very much!”

Lurk

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Re: Political theatre/wrestling
« Reply #70 on: December 10, 2018, 02:14:13 PM »
The conservative view of where Mueller is at now.

One thing that is clear is that the investigation seems to be ending. Mueller’s office has reportedly even told various defense lawyers that it is “tying up loose ends.” The moment to wrap things up is politically right as well: the Democrats will soon take control of the House; time to hand this all off to them. [...

Almost everything Mueller has, the perjury and lying cases, are crimes he created through the process of investigating. He’s Schroeder’s Box: the infractions only exist when he tries to look at them. Mueller created most of his booked charges by asking questions he already knew the answers to, hoping his witness would lie and commit new crimes literally in front of him. Nobody should be proud of lying, but it seems a helluva way to contest a completed election as Trump enters the third year of his term.

Mueller’s end product, his report, will most likely claim that a lot of unsavory things went on. But it seems increasingly unlikely that he’ll have any evidence Trump worked with Russia to win the election, let alone that Trump is now under Putin’s control. If Mueller had a smoking gun, we’d be watching impeachment hearings by now.

Instead, Mueller will end up concluding that some people may have sort of maybe tried to interfere with an investigation into what turned out to be nothing, another “crime” that exists only because there was an investigation to trigger it.


https://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/muellers-investigation-is-missing-one-thing-a-crime/
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Re: Political theatre/wrestling
« Reply #71 on: December 10, 2018, 09:20:52 PM »
Mueller will do as he's told, and given that Trump is part of the swamp, there's a good chance nothing will happen (but enough chum given to keep plenty of people distracted).
Compare, compare, compare

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Re: Political theatre/wrestling
« Reply #72 on: December 10, 2018, 11:12:54 PM »

Almost everything Mueller has, the perjury and lying cases, are crimes he created through the process of investigating. He’s Schroeder’s Box: the infractions only exist when he tries to look at them. Mueller created most of his booked charges by asking questions he already knew the answers to, hoping his witness would lie and commit new crimes literally in front of him. Nobody should be proud of lying, but it seems a helluva way to contest a completed election as Trump enters the third year of his term.

Mueller’s end product, his report, will most likely claim that a lot of unsavory things went on. But it seems increasingly unlikely that he’ll have any evidence Trump worked with Russia to win the election, let alone that Trump is now under Putin’s control. If Mueller had a smoking gun, we’d be watching impeachment hearings by now.



To paraphrase


After years of investigation the prosecution will be forced to admit that the charges of collusion were fabricated and that Mrs. Clinton did not lose the election because of the Russians.


Are those that believed that Trump hired hookers to pee in a bed that Obama had slept on finally aware of just how bizarre this claim is/was?


Clinton's attempts to identify a scapegoat, rather than admitting her own incompetence has come close to starting WWIII. What an evil twisted woman. What an evil twisted system.
Terry


Lurk

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Re: Political theatre/wrestling
« Reply #73 on: December 11, 2018, 01:53:47 AM »

 What an evil twisted system.
Terry


Butina Plea deal due - kept in solitary confinement for +3 months for not properly lodging a form? Solitary is usually supposed to be for extremely violent prisoners, death row inmates and terrorists, so wtf is such a cruel punishment being inflicted upon a person who has not even been found guilty of anything as yet? The world truly has gone insane on multiple levels.

---

‘Parties resolved the matter’

A team from the Russian embassy in Washington DC have been visiting Butina in jail in Virginia, where she is being held in solitary confinement. The team accused her jailers of trying to “break her will” with strip searches, denial of medication, and other forms of “psychological pressure and humiliation.”

Butina will now enter her new plea as early as Tuesday, according to documents filed on Monday.

Human rights lawyer Dan Kovalik told RT that Butina’s is most likely a “political case,” with the 30-year-old Russian used as a “pawn” to sabotage US-Russia relations.

“If she had filed the piece of paper with the Attorney General’s office, everything she did was  legal,” defense attorney Robert Driscoll told RT. “This is more of a registration type of crime that an espionage crime, and yet the media and the government to some extent are treating it as an espionage crime.”

Before news of Butina’s apparent intention to plead guilty to something, Kovalic foresaw the US dropping her charges after a prolonged detention. Her own defense lawyers and the prosecution team released a statement last month saying they “remain optimistic about a pretrial resolution.”


https://www.rt.com/usa/446092-butina-plea-meeting-cooperation/

Talk about political prisoners! Toss in Assange and Meng Wanzhou, Huawei's global chief financial officer with Papadopoulos. Unilateral sanctions against other countries are 100% Political and based on bias not hard evidence nor a conviction by a Jury or a Judge in a fair Court of Law.

Visitors to a country are supposed to know about every single Law ever passed and still on the books? If you were a genuine 'pro-gun activists' in your country you too would go to the USA ask for help and learn how to be a better activist for the cause you believed in from the NRA etc. Common bloody sense.

"FARA? WTF is FARA," she asked stupidly. "Why TF are you doing this to me? WTF have I done? I am not a criminal," she pleaded desperately to her jailers.   

Evil walks when good people accept it's OK.
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Lurk

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Re: Political theatre/wrestling
« Reply #74 on: December 14, 2018, 10:11:50 AM »
"Document: Mariia Butina Plea Agreement," the latest from Mikhaila Fogel
DoJ DC Office written Dec 6th 2018
https://www.lawfareblog.com/document-maria-butina-plea-agreement

“This is an utter and total miscarriage of justice,”
retired CIA agent and whistleblower John Kiriakou told RT after Butina pleaded guilty to the charge of failing to register with the Justice Department as an agent of the Russian government.

“You can see clearly, this is not about justice, this is not about criminal activity. This is about making a political point. This is about identifying Russia and Russians as the enemy of the United States, and punishing them.”

“We arrested this young woman because we need dirt on Trump and Russia. And she is Russian, political and pro-Trump,” US legal analyst Jennifer Breedon explained. “We are seeing [the Foreign Agents Registration Act - FARA] being used specifically as it relates to undermining the Donald Trump administration or conservatives really with anybody involved in Russia, friends with Russia or contacts.”

John Kiriakou believes this borderline “torture” could have forced her to admit to a crime she might never even have committed.

This woman is not an enemy combatant. So, unless news surfaces that there was some kind of skirmish or issue within the jail... it seems to go against US policy and laws as to who is forced into solitary confinement, just based solely on the charges that were lodged against her,” Breedon said.


---

Some of the things she is agreeing to are:
cooperating with Law enforcement and Government 'officials' until further notice; and being questioned without a lawyer present as to any subject the Prosecution of the DoJ may wish to purse, to provide signed witness statements, to engage in covert law enforcement operations, sit for a polygraph at any time, allow a full investigation into her assets and sources of income, relinquish any funds/assets that arose due to 'criminal' activity,  hand over all evidence of 'crimes', contraband, proceeds of, to which she is aware and attend Grand Juries when requested and answer all questions truthfully .... and any of dozens of requirements if she breaches one it's all null and void - meanwhile she is pleading guilty for 'a crime' with a recommended penalty of 0-6mths jail and a $0-$9500 fine - however there is NO guarantee that will be the Sentence as the determination is totally up to the Court itself ..... and she cannot withdraw her guilty plea nor appeal that sentence, and there is no time set for when sentencing will be set down to be heard in Court, and until such times she shall remain in Custody with nil Bail applying.

Any 'false' 'misleading' information provided by Butina to date that is discovered in the future, or is provided in the future makes the agreement Null and Void.

One can only assume she is pleading Guilty to "failing to Register as a Foreign Agent" because she really IS an Agent of the Government of Russia. If so, then she must have been hired to act as an "Agent" by that very Government before or during her arrival in the USA in 2015/16. And further one would 'assume' that there is an audit trail which would prove she was in the Employ and being paid by said Government to work as an "Agent" for it.

If that is not in fact the case, then one would surely wonder as to why and for what purpose is she pleading guilty for?  As it turns out the complaint indicates she was 'hired' to act on behalf of the deputy head of the Russian Central Bank, and not the Govt per se. To enhance communication channels, future cooperation, and building trust between Russia and USA 'movers and shakers' that included the NRA membership and people potentially connected to the future Trump administration. I think it's called: 'talking' with each other.' 

Apparently, (not knowing all the details obviously) had she actually Registered under FARA there was no crime - merely like-minded people discussing issues of the day and making arrangements to attend functions like Gun shows and BBQs and drinks in both countries = a criminal conspiracy now.

This may put an end to the global 'Sister Cities' arrangements, international Business councils and Rotary programs, and the International Scout Jamborees too. 

There is no indication in known documents if Butina, Russian 1 or American 1 were cognizant of FARA or that the said "consultancy project" may have come under the aegis of that Statute - set in place long before WW2 and not prosecuted for nigh on 60 years since WW2.

There is no indication that any of the parties, in particualr Butina conspired intentionally to avoid any suspected or foreknowledge of a requirement to make a FARA registration in June 2018.

There is no indication that any of her actions and words were designed to deceive any Amercian she came in contact with as to her activities, intentions and goals; nor to hide from others with whom she was representing and in contact with in Russia.

There is no indication  that Butina or anyone else engaged in any subterfuge whatsoever with the purpose to hide their communications from US law Enforcement, NSA etc. at any time or for any nefarious purpose or intent.

There is no indication whatsoever that Butina or anyone else engaged in any direct nefarious contact or communication with Russian Embassy staffers or suspected Intelligence Agents within the US.

In fact, given the evidence thus far presented and everyday common sense, it appears to be the complete opposite of that. Just a group of individuals seeking to improve relationships, contacts and communication between people of influence within both the US and Russia for the benefit of both groups and nations.

But of course, similar to the 'opinions' mentioned at the top of the post, I do not know for sure if this summary is accurate either, as I wasn't there in her circles at the time either. What we all do know though is that Butina is (at this point afaik) pleading guilty to not registering under the FARA regulations. And that is all.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2018, 01:42:50 PM by Lurk »
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Lurk

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Re: Political theatre/wrestling
« Reply #75 on: Today at 03:35:57 AM »
Quote
"There you go again Lurk, defending the 'dictator' Putin and those 'lying' Russians trying to take over the whole world!"

"(sigh) Oh dear me, not so. It's called pointing out what is right in front of people's faces but they refuse to look at it. As do a majority of the journalists in the MSM."

"Oh what rubbish you speak. Butina is obviously guilty and that's why she pleaded guilty."

"Well, so what? What about everyone else who has not been arrested and thrown into solitary confinement? What about those Foreign Agents of other nations States?"

"Yeah? More conspiracy theories by a paid Russian troll I see. Like who are all these Foreign Agents you imagine are working in the USA?"

"What a much better world it would be and much better forum too, if questions like that were driven by genuine curiosity and some skepticism."


If I have learned one true thing from my life's experience it is that most of the time Truth is in plain view staring us right in the face

Wouldn't a fair and reasonable question for Journalists to ask about and do FOIA requests on be: How many Saudi nationals are registered with FARA?

Another may be: Are the following 'XYZ' Saudi nationals who are funding US NFP Think Tanks and who are supporting the Clinton Foundation with hard cash, and who are paying high prices for access to all other US Politicians in their "social circles" properly Registered with FARA?

Would it not be great if the Saudis, Kuwait and Bahrain could sell their Oil to all the countries who won't be able to buy it from Russia, Iran and Venezuela as they are moved closer into 'basket case' states?

Would it not be great for US Qatari Oman gas companies to supply Europe, China and Japan with all the LNG they are currently buying from Russia, especially if we could block their new Gas pipelines being laid?

--- ---

There's no conspiracy theory required in Journalists and the public questioning the accepted status quo.

Wouldn't a fair and reasonable question for Journalists to ask about and do FOIA requests on be: How many Israeli nationals are registered with FARA?

Better still: How many US nationals are running 'PR projects' inside the US for the direct political and economic benefit of Israel and the Israeli State, and who have direct contacts with Israel Embassy staff and senior Israeli Government officials?   

Another question may be: Are the following 'XYZ' Israeli and US nationals who are funding US NFP Think Tanks and who are supporting the anti-BDS movements with hard cash, funding advertising campaigns, and promoting changes ot US Laws to US politicians and Government officials, and who are paying high prices for access to all other US Politicians in their "social circles" ... are they too properly Registered with FARA?

If not why not?

--- ---

The Israel lobby US Project

It is not hard to see the reasons Qatar has to suppress the film.
Since the start of the Saudi-United Arab Emirates blockade of Qatar in June 2017, Qatar has poured tens of millions of dollars into lobbying in Washington, in an attempt to persuade the Trump administration to reverse its policies of de facto support for the blockade.
Since Trump and other Republican politicians are staunchly pro-Israel, the Qataris have increasingly sought to cozy up to Israel as a way to ingratiate themselves in Washington.
https://electronicintifada.net/blogs/asa-winstanley/al-jazeera-denies-qatari-emir-censored-israel-lobby-film

The Electronic Intifada has obtained a complete copy of The Lobby – USA, a four-part undercover investigation by Al Jazeera into Israel’s covert influence campaign in the United States.
The film was made by Al Jazeera during 2016 and was completed in October 2017.
But it was censored after Qatar, the gas-rich Gulf emirate that funds Al Jazeera, came under intense Israel lobby pressure not to air the film.
You can watch the first two parts in the video embeds above and below.
https://electronicintifada.net/blogs/asa-winstanley/al-jazeera-denies-qatari-emir-censored-israel-lobby-film

In the final two parts of of the film, Tony gets a deeper look at Israel’s covert influence campaigns during his internship for The Israel Project. Watch parts three and four in the videos embedded above and below.
https://electronicintifada.net/content/watch-final-episodes-al-jazeera-film-us-israel-lobby/25896

I do not know what those who have seen that documentary think about it, but there appears to me to be ample examples of prima facie evidence and witnesses to hundreds of people whose activities would come under the purview of the FARA Regulations and Laws.

Versus the Russian Lobby 'project' that involved Mariia Butina?

Of course it is so easy to dismiss the influence and the political clout that the Oil and Gas Industry and the States of Israel and Saudi Arabia and Co. have upon United States Politicians and Media Corporations overall as being non-existent.

Surely journalists and everyday people can tell the difference between genuine Intelligence threats to the Security of the United States or her Allies, and the unrelated grass corporate lobbying by mega-wealthy stakeholders who wish to increase their international exports some.

Buy thankfully the US Department of Justice and the FBI are completely apolitical bodies with the highest degree of integrity and impartiality. They are totally unbiased as they go about their good work to apply the Laws of the land equally upon all without fear or favour.

Of course, of course. Or as Hillary might say, as she did about Julian Assange:
"Oh why can't we just 'drone' Butina?"
American journalist Walter Lippmann observed, “Where all think alike, no one thinks very much!”

Lurk

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Re: Political theatre/wrestling
« Reply #76 on: Today at 04:06:02 AM »
A few words about news media Conspiracy Theorists :)

Breaking News; He's Done; We Got Him; Bombshell; Today is a Turning Point; the Beginning of the End; Another New Bombshell; Impeachment; Resignation; the Walls are Closing In; Will Resign; We've said it over and over and over and over again; This is a Tipping Point; Breaking Overnight Bombshell; Crippled; Today is the Day that everything changed; You can Mark it down; the Beginning of the End (again); Is in Trouble; Is Going Down; Resignation; Won't Serve out his Term; Absolute Bombshell; It's Over; the Walls are Closing in (again); Tipping Point; In Big Trouble; Today Changed Everything; Bombshell; Bombshell; Bombshell; Bombshell; Bombshell; Bombshell.

..... Rachel Maddow: "I'm beginning to resent the word Bombshell!" <smiling>



American journalist Walter Lippmann observed,Where all think alike, no one thinks very much!
American journalist Walter Lippmann observed, “Where all think alike, no one thinks very much!”

Lurk

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Re: Political theatre/wrestling
« Reply #77 on: Today at 06:19:15 AM »
Not every journalist and media entity is asleep at the wheel while ignoring information by sources on the inside.

Mueller may turn to Middle East to pursue Trump ‘collusion’

Quote
Special counsel Robert Mueller is reportedly preparing to shift the focus of the interminable Russiagate investigation to the Middle East, where at least three countries may have tried their hands at “election meddling.”

Claiming indictments will start dropping in early 2019, sources close to the matter say that Mueller’s team has been discussing the possibility of filing charges pertaining to election meddling by Israeli, Emirati, and Saudi nationals. These well-connected figures not only offered US President Donald Trump assistance on his way to the White House – a report by the Daily Beast claims – they also tried to meddle in policies once he was there.

“If this is going to be unveiled, this would be like the surfacing of the submarine but on the other plank which we haven’t seen,” said Harry Litman, a former US attorney with knowledge of the probe.

Foreign influence-peddling is not exactly a new phenomenon in the US. The Foreign Agents Registration Act, originally intended to counter Nazi Germany’s propaganda, has for decades been something that only “official” foreign lobbyists had to take into account. Even among those there are some notable exceptions that happen to include a country mentioned by the Beast.

[...]  there were Middle Eastern influence peddlers, who got involved with the Russians as well as Trump.

Maybe this will finally bring into US media spotlight that Flynn’s much-damned meeting with the Russian ambassador was in fact to petition for Israel’s interests and against the position of then-President Barack Obama.

https://www.rt.com/news/446477-mueller-investigation-israel-saudi/

Ref:
Get Ready for Mueller’s Phase Two: The Middle East Connection
The ‘Russia investigation’ is set to go global. In court filings due to drop in 2019, prosecutors will unveil Middle Eastern countries’ attempts to influence U.S. politics.
Erin Banco 12.13.18

Quote
While one part of the Mueller team has indicted Russian spies and troll-masters, another cadre has been spending its time focusing on how Middle Eastern countries pushed cash to Washington politicos in an attempt to sway policy under President Trump’s administration. Various witnesses affiliated with the Trump campaign have been questioned about their conversations with deeply connected individuals from the United Arab Emirates, Saudi Arabia, and Israel, according to people familiar with the probe. Topics in those meetings ranged from the use of social-media manipulation to help install Trump in the White House to the overthrow of the regime in Iran.

Now, according to those same sources, the Special Counsel’s Office is ready to outline what cooperating witnesses have told them about foreigners’ plans to help Trump win the presidency. Two sources with knowledge of the probe said Mueller’s team has for months discussed the possibility of issuing new charges on this side of the investigation.[/i]

https://www.thedailybeast.com/get-ready-for-muellers-phase-two-the-middle-east-connection 
American journalist Walter Lippmann observed, “Where all think alike, no one thinks very much!”

Lurk

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Re: Political theatre/wrestling
« Reply #78 on: Today at 11:17:02 AM »
My, my, my. You could blow me down with a feather! :) Mindful there is a lot of default biases in the following 2 media reports and a distinct lack of substantive evidence. Many claims, assertions and coincidences but little all else. Plus it's a bit of old news too to be sure. Which was where Woodward and Bernstein began, so maybe in due course .... maybe something could come of it. One day.  Could it all depend on whether Mueller is wrapping up or moving forward into other areas? And what if anything his investigation might have handed onto to others in the DoJ. 

‘Unregistered foreign agent’: Clinton Foundation oversight panel hears explosive testimony
Published time: 15 Dec, 2018

Quote
"The foundation began acting as an agent of foreign governments early in its life and continued doing so throughout its existence, as such, the foundation should have registered under FARA."

Moynihan and fellow ex-government investigator Lawrence Doyle shared 6,000 pages of evidence with the IRS over 18 months ago, only to be met with silence. They shared them with the FBI multiple times – ditto. Yet when the pair testified before the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee, they refused to turn over the documents, stating they did not want to interfere with any ongoing investigations. [...]

Testifying on their findings, Doyle highlighted the Foundation’s alleged “misuse of donated public funds,” explaining that it “falsely attested that it received funds and used them for charitable purposes which was, in fact, not the case. Rather the foundation pursued in an array of activities both domestically and abroad,” which included activities “properly characterized as profit-oriented and taxable undertakings of private enterprise, again failing the operational tests of philanthropy referenced above,” referring to the equally non-charitable pursuit of funding the Clinton Presidential Library.

John Huber, appointed by former Attorney General Jeff Sessions to investigate the Clinton Foundation after Sessions recused himself from doing so, was conspicuously absent from the hearing, even though his job is to probe Clinton’s approval of the sale of US uranium assets to Russia.

Judicial Watch’s Tom Fitton also gave testimony, outlining how “it was hard to tell where the Clinton State Department ended and the Clinton Foundation began” – so much so that the King of Bahrain, unable to meet with Clinton as Secretary of State, secured a meeting with the Foundation instead. [...]

Meanwhile, the FBI has missed a deadline to turn over information on why they raided the home of another Clinton Foundation whistleblower, Nathan Cain, earlier this week. Cain’s lawyer says his client – who reportedly gave the Justice Department documents showing federal officials failed to investigate criminal activity related to the Uranium One deal – was accused of possessing stolen federal property.

https://www.rt.com/usa/446522-clinton-foundation-foreign-agent-testimony/


Quote
3 Oct, 2018
Among a trove of documents relating to the controversial deal, the FBI has identified 37 pages that could shine a light on why then-Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and the Obama administration approved the deal.

The pages were recently added to the agency’s Freedom of Information Act online vault. The only problem - they’re classified.
https://vault.fbi.gov/uranium-one-transaction/uranium-one-transaction-part-01-of-01/view

The reasons given for the classification will sound familiar to anyone following President Trump’s recent struggle to declassify another set of FBI documents: doing so would violate the privacy of individuals involved, would place national security at risk, would disclose secret law enforcement techniques, and would reveal confidential inter-agency communication, among others. [...]

As the deal was being hashed out, the FBI planted a spy posing as a consultant, businessman William Douglas Campbell, in Rosatom. Campbell uncovered evidence that Rosatom’s main executive in America, Vadim Mikerin, was involved in bribery, extortion, and money laundering, as he sought to gain “improper business advantages” for US firms that worked with a Rosatom-owned firm he chaired.

The FBI compiled Campbell’s evidence, and Mikerin was charged and deported, but not until summer 2018. Back in 2010, the Obama administration approved the sale of Uranium One to Rosatom anyway.

The sale needed to be approved by the Committee on Foreign Investment in the United States (CIFUS), which was chaired by Hillary Clinton. Campbell told three separate Congressional committees that Moscow had hired lobbying firm APCO Worldwide to use its influence with Clinton to negotiate the deal, for which the Clinton Foundation would receive generous kickbacks.

Republicans held that something was amiss, citing Bill Clinton’s $500,000 fee for a speech in Moscow in 2010 as proof the Clintons were peddling influence for Russian money. At the same time, Mrs. Clinton was pushing for a great “reset” in US-Russia relations. The plot thickens.

The FBI director at the time? None other than Robert Mueller, currently the Witch-Hunter-in-chief, leading the crusade against the Trump team. What a difference eight years make.

Attorney General Jeff Sessions announced in March that a federal prosecutor from Utah, John Huber, would look into both the Uranium One deal and FBI misconduct in the Clinton email investigation. Trump too seemed eager to get to the bottom of the scandal, and has regularly bashed Clinton for her alleged role in facilitating the sale.

    Uranium deal to Russia, with Clinton help and Obama Administration knowledge, is the biggest story that Fake Media doesn't want to follow!
    — Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) October 19, 2017

https://www.rt.com/usa/440256-clinton-uranium-documents-classified/


No need to restrict oneself to these RT pages - just do a search for many other reports on these interrelated connected topics. Meanwhile the Political theatre/wrestling is not over yet. ;)
American journalist Walter Lippmann observed, “Where all think alike, no one thinks very much!”