Support the Arctic Sea Ice Forum and Blog

Author Topic: Archaeology/Paleontology news  (Read 18407 times)

kassy

  • Grease ice
  • Posts: 755
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 272
  • Likes Given: 325
Re: Archaeology/Paleontology news
« Reply #50 on: July 17, 2019, 12:10:44 PM »
A "Game-Changing" 10,000-Year-Old Neolithic City Has Been Unearthed Near Jerusalem

...

The sprawling Neolithic mega-site, unearthed in the neighbourhood of Motza about 5 kilometres (3 miles) to the west of Jerusalem, was first founded over 10,000 years ago, and by its peak a millennium later would have been a bustling centre of trade and activity for some 2,000–3,000 Stone Age city-dwellers.

"This is most probably the largest excavation of this time period in the Middle East, which will allow the research to advance leaps and bounds ahead of where we are today, just by the amount of material that we are able to save and preserve from this site," archaeologist Lauren Davis from the Israel Antiquities Authority, which is conducting the excavation, told Reuters.

for details see:
https://www.sciencealert.com/huge-prehistoric-city-from-10-000-years-ago-unearthed-in-foothills-of-jerusalem
Þetta minnismerki er til vitnis um að við vitum hvað er að gerast og hvað þarf að gera. Aðeins þú veist hvort við gerðum eitthvað.

kassy

  • Grease ice
  • Posts: 755
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 272
  • Likes Given: 325
Re: Archaeology/Paleontology news
« Reply #51 on: July 18, 2019, 02:21:18 PM »
Travel back in time with the 'Google Maps' of Ancient Rome

...

Researchers at Stanford University have used modern technology to answer by creating a web mapping version of Ancient Rome.

Their model, called ORBIS, consists of 632 sites spread across 10 million square kilometres of terrestrial and maritime space, covering most of modern Western Europe and the Mediterranean coast in North Africa and the Middle East.

The tool generates solutions for travel between any two sites depending on specific means and mode of transport and the months of the year, providing different options based on time and expense.

...

A trip from London to Arles — in Provence, France — undertaken in the summer would have taken 24 days using the fastest route, which entails sailing down the Channel, then down to the Bay of Biscay to reach Bordeaux and then travelling by land.

The cheapest route would have required 35 days and involved sailing around the Iberian Peninsula. The shortest route in terms of kilometres, meanwhile, would also have been the lengthiest, involving 37 days to travel through France.


https://www.euronews.com/2019/07/18/travel-back-in-time-with-the-google-maps-of-ancient-rome

http://orbis.stanford.edu/
Þetta minnismerki er til vitnis um að við vitum hvað er að gerast og hvað þarf að gera. Aðeins þú veist hvort við gerðum eitthvað.

Tom_Mazanec

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1500
    • View Profile
    • Planet Mazanec
  • Liked: 327
  • Likes Given: 55
Re: Archaeology/Paleontology news
« Reply #52 on: July 30, 2019, 07:32:55 PM »
SHARKS (CROSSED OUT) MONGEESE (SIC) WITH FRICKIN LASER BEAMS ATTACHED TO THEIR HEADS

Gumbercules

  • NewMembers
  • New ice
  • Posts: 53
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 2
  • Likes Given: 5
Re: Archaeology/Paleontology news
« Reply #53 on: July 31, 2019, 02:56:52 AM »
As a curious young teenager I read Von Däniken's Chariots of the Gods. It all made perfect sense, until I learned to think more scientifically and realized it was a steaming pile of BS.
I don't think pseudo-science has any value on this forum.

That has nothing to do with my post so far as I know.

TerryM

  • First-year ice
  • Posts: 5220
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 395
  • Likes Given: 5
Re: Archaeology/Paleontology news
« Reply #54 on: July 31, 2019, 10:59:22 PM »
For whatever it's worth I've been following the black mat extinction event for decades - and prior to that was well aware of the dark strata that marked the end of the Clovis population as well as the end of the mammoths and other Rancholabrean fossils.


I've 5 samples taken from various sites in the American South West, and one of the reasons I relocated here is that this region was one of the few places not glaciated this far north in the critical time frame.


A friend discovered the first Clovis like point in the area (there are now 2 that have been found). While they appear very similar to Clovis work they are perhaps half the size. I'd hoped to discover a northern extension of the mat, but no luck thus far.


A local? mastodon was discovered ~ a century ago and it was discovered in black soil, though no one alive knows just where it was discovered, (or what happened to it). - Probably no more than it being discovered in a bog.


There is a black layer containing magnetic properties close to the present water level of Lake Erie just west of Turkey Point. I've a sample from that strata also.


When first noted the Black Mat was considered as "Possibly Von Danikenish", but as more data has been revealed, a much stronger case has been made.


An acquaintance who was/is? in charge of ice age fossils at ROM discovered magnetic bits embedded in the top sides of Mammoth and Mastodon tusks that they had in their collections. Whatever hit them came from above - and it came at a high enough velocity to burn it's way through a few inches of ivory.


Interesting Stuff
Terry

Gumbercules

  • NewMembers
  • New ice
  • Posts: 53
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 2
  • Likes Given: 5
Re: Archaeology/Paleontology news
« Reply #55 on: July 31, 2019, 11:38:33 PM »
Two huge asteroid/comet craters have been discovered in Greenland  that could be as young as 20,000 years old.

johnm33

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1282
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 80
  • Likes Given: 40
Re: Archaeology/Paleontology news
« Reply #56 on: August 01, 2019, 03:26:28 PM »
Gumbercules perhaps you should try to trace the history of the big heads of Puma Punka which Brien Foerster takes such an interest in, they're as close as anyone to fitting the bill.

Gumbercules

  • NewMembers
  • New ice
  • Posts: 53
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 2
  • Likes Given: 5
Re: Archaeology/Paleontology news
« Reply #57 on: August 02, 2019, 01:48:49 AM »
Gumbercules perhaps you should try to trace the history of the big heads of Puma Punka which Brien Foerster takes such an interest in, they're as close as anyone to fitting the bill.

Fitting what bill?

johnm33

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1282
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 80
  • Likes Given: 40
Re: Archaeology/Paleontology news
« Reply #58 on: August 03, 2019, 12:10:36 AM »
" Their thing is talking about how an advanced, at least compared to what we now understand, civilization existed in pre-history."

nanning

  • Grease ice
  • Posts: 864
  • 0Kg CO2, 35 KWh/wk,130L H2O/wk, No heating
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 133
  • Likes Given: 5685
Re: Archaeology/Paleontology news
« Reply #59 on: August 03, 2019, 09:21:22 AM »
Hi johnm33, just curious what the definition here is of 'civilization'. Is it settlements and expansion? Technological progress? Trade and ownership of nature? Domesticated animals? Agriculture? Conquest?
"It is preoccupation with possessions, more than anything else, that prevents us from living freely and nobly" - Bertrand Russell
   Simple: minimize your possessions and be free and kind    It's just a mindset.       Refugees welcome

kassy

  • Grease ice
  • Posts: 755
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 272
  • Likes Given: 325
Re: Archaeology/Paleontology news
« Reply #60 on: August 03, 2019, 01:35:31 PM »
Archaeologists Shed Light on Mysterious Neolithic Society Behind Rise of Ancient Egypt

To many, ancient Egypt is synonymous with the pharaohs and pyramids of the Dynastic period starting about 3,100BC. Yet long before that, about 9,300-4,000BC, enigmatic Neolithic peoples flourished. Indeed, it was the lifestyles and cultural innovations of these peoples that provided the very foundation for the advanced civilisations to come.

...

Though not lush, the Neolithic was wetter than today, which allowed these ancient herders to populate what is now the middle of nowhere. We focus on the Final Neolithic (4,600-4,000BC), which was built on the success of the Late Neolithic (5,500-4,650BC) with domesticated cattle and goats, wild plant processing and cattle burials.

...

These people also made apparent megaliths, shrines and even calendar circles – which look a bit like a mini Stonehenge.

During the final part of the Neolithic period, people started burying the dead in formal cemeteries. Skeletons provide critical information because they are from once living people who interacted with the cultural and physical environments. Health, relationships, diet and even psychological experiences can leave telltale signs on teeth and bone.

In 2001-2003 we excavated three cemeteries from this era – the first in the western desert – where we uncovered and studied 68 skeletons. ... We learned that these people enjoyed low childhood mortality, tall stature and long life. Men averaged 170cm, while women were about 160cm. Most men and women lived beyond 40 years, with some into their 50s – a long time in those days.

Strangely, in 2009-2016, we dug two more cemeteries that were very different. After analysing another 130 skeletons, we discovered that few artefacts accompanied them, and that they suffered from higher childhood mortality as well as shorter lives and stature.

We're talking several centimetres shorter and perhaps ten years younger for adults of both sexes.

Astonishingly, the largest of these two cemeteries had a separate burial area for children under three years of age, but mostly infants including late-term foetuses. Three women buried with infants were also found, so perhaps they died in childbirth. In fact, this is the world's earliest known infant cemetery.

https://www.sciencealert.com/archaeologists-reveal-a-mysterious-neolithic-society-that-enabled-the-rise-of-ancient-egypt
Þetta minnismerki er til vitnis um að við vitum hvað er að gerast og hvað þarf að gera. Aðeins þú veist hvort við gerðum eitthvað.

vox_mundi

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1613
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 618
  • Likes Given: 111
Re: Archaeology/Paleontology news
« Reply #61 on: August 03, 2019, 02:18:32 PM »
Mesoamerican Attraction to Magnetism
https://phys.org/news/2019-07-mesoamerican-magnetism.html



The purpose of Mesoamerican potbelly statues have been the subject of debate among anthropologists for decades: Are they depictions of the ruling elite? A way to honor dead ancestors? Or perhaps portrayals of women giving birth?

As the various theories wound their way through academic circles, the surprising discovery four decades ago that many of the statues, found in Guatemala, are magnetized in certain spots added a new dimension to those discussions.

And a Harvard study suggests that where those areas show up is no accident.

Led by Assistant Professor of Earth and Planetary Sciences Roger Fu, a team of researchers has shown that artisans carved the figures so that the magnetic areas fell at the navel or right temple—suggesting not only that Mesoamerican people were familiar with the concept of magnetism but also that they had some way of detecting the magnetized spots. The study is described in an April 12 paper published in the Journal of Archaeological Science.

... It's uncertain exactly how they detected the anomalies, but earlier research had turned up evidence that Mesoamericans may have used lodestones—naturally magnetized rocks—for a variety of purposes.

"In one case, in 1975, people discovered a hematite-rich bar," Fu said. "Its purpose was unknown, and it was broken, but it was clearly very carefully made.

"If you were to tie it on a string or float it on a piece of wood, it actually could act as a compass needle," he added. "If the makers of these sculptures had access to a tool like that, that's one way they could have detected them."

... "There are some hypotheses which are quite intriguing … that involve digging into why we think people made these sculptures.

"Probably the most successful idea is that they might represent some depiction of the ancestors of the ruling elites," he continued. "The idea is: If you have some claim to power, sculptures of your ancestors with strong magnetic anomalies could appear very impressive to your subjects. The word people use in the literature is that there's a performative aspect to these sculptures, so when the sculptures deflected a magnetized stone, it would appear as though there was something alive with it, or some supernatural aspect to it."
“There are three classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see.” ― Leonardo da Vinci

Insensible before the wave so soon released by callous fate. Affected most, they understand the least, and understanding, when it comes, invariably arrives too late

vox_mundi

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1613
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 618
  • Likes Given: 111
Re: Archaeology/Paleontology news
« Reply #62 on: August 06, 2019, 06:30:31 PM »
Recursive Language and Modern Imagination Were Acquired Simultaneously 70,000 Years Ago
https://phys.org/news/2019-08-recursive-language-modern-simultaneously-years.html

A genetic mutation that slowed down the development of the prefrontal cortex (PFC) in two or more children may have triggered a cascade of events leading to acquisition of recursive language and modern imagination 70,000 years ago.

This new hypothesis, called Romulus and Remus and coined by Dr. Vyshedskiy, a neuroscientist from Boston University, might be able to solve the long-standing mystery of language evolution. It is published in the open-science journal Research Ideas and Outcomes (RIO).

Numerous archeological and genetic evidence have already convinced most paleoanthropologists that the speech apparatus has reached essentially modern configurations before the human line split from the Neanderthal line 600,000 years ago.

On the other hand, artifacts signifying modern imagination, such as composite figurative arts, elaborate burials, bone needles with an eye, and construction of dwellings arose not earlier than 70,000 years ago. The half million-year-gap between the acquisition of the modern speech apparatus and modern imagination has baffled scientists for decades.

... "The acquisition of PFS and recursive language 70,000 years ago resulted in what was in essence a behaviorally new species: the first behaviorally modern Homo sapiens," concludes Dr. Vyshedskiy. "This newly acquired power for fast juxtaposition of mental objects in the process of PFS dramatically facilitated mental prototyping and led to fast acceleration of technological progress. Armed with the unprecedented ability to mentally simulate any plan and equally unprecedented ability to communicate it to their companions, humans were poised to quickly become the dominant species."

Andrey Vyshedskiy, Language evolution to revolution: the leap from rich-vocabulary non-recursive communication system to recursive language 70,000 years ago was associated with acquisition of a novel component of imagination, called Prefrontal Synthesis, enabled by a mutation that slowed down the prefrontal cortex maturation simultaneously in two or more children – the Romulus and Remus hypothesis, Research Ideas and Outcomes (2019)

See also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toba_catastrophe_theory
« Last Edit: August 06, 2019, 06:48:56 PM by vox_mundi »
“There are three classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see.” ― Leonardo da Vinci

Insensible before the wave so soon released by callous fate. Affected most, they understand the least, and understanding, when it comes, invariably arrives too late

vox_mundi

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1613
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 618
  • Likes Given: 111
Re: Archaeology/Paleontology news
« Reply #63 on: August 09, 2019, 06:20:13 PM »
Archaeology can help us learn from history to build a sustainable future for food
https://phys.org/news/2019-08-archaeology-history-sustainable-future-food.html

A recent paper in World Archaeology explores past agricultural systems and how they could help make agriculture more sustainable today.

There's a long history of societies around the world experimenting with the way they produce food. Through these past successes and failures comes perspective on how humans have transformed local environments through agriculture and affected soil properties over thousands of years.

Ancient agricultural practices weren't always in balance with nature—there's some evidence that early food growers damaged their environment with overgrazing or mismanaging irrigation which made the soil saltier. But there are also many instances where past systems of growing food improved soil quality, increased crop yields and protected crops against flooding and drought.

One example originated in Pre-Incan South America, and was commonly used between 300 BC and 1400 AD. The system, known today as Waru Waru, consisted of raised soil beds up to two metres high and up to six metres wide, surrounded by water channels. First discovered by researchers in the 1960s around Lake Titicaca, these raised field systems were introduced into wetland and highland areas of Bolivia and Peru over the following decades.

Although some projects failed, the majority have allowed local farmers to improve crop productivity and soil fertility without using chemicals. Compared to other local agricultural methods, the raised beds capture water during droughts and drain water when there's too much rain. This irrigates the crops all year round. The canal water retains heat and raises the air temperature surrounding the soil beds by 1°C, protecting crops from frost. The fish that colonise the channels also provide an additional food source.

Waru Waru farming could prove more resilient to the increased flooding and drought that's expected under climate change. It could also grow food in degraded habitats once considered unsuitable for crops, helping ease pressure to clear rainforest.



Fish as pest control in Asia

In southern China, farmers add fish to their rice paddy fields in a method that dates back to the later Han Dynasty (25–220 AD).

The fish are an additional protein source, so the system produces more food than rice farming alone. But another advantage over rice monocultures is that farmers save on costly chemical fertilisers and pesticides—the fish provide a natural pest control by eating weeds and harmful pests such as the rice planthopper.

Research throughout Asia has shown that compared to fields that only grow rice, rice-fish farming increases rice yields by up to 20%, allowing families to feed themselves and sell their surplus food at market.

Kelly Reed, Lessons from the Past and the Future of Food, Journal of World Archaeology, May 2019
« Last Edit: August 09, 2019, 06:25:41 PM by vox_mundi »
“There are three classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see.” ― Leonardo da Vinci

Insensible before the wave so soon released by callous fate. Affected most, they understand the least, and understanding, when it comes, invariably arrives too late

vox_mundi

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1613
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 618
  • Likes Given: 111
Re: Archaeology/Paleontology news
« Reply #64 on: August 09, 2019, 06:42:20 PM »
Viking History Is Melting Away in Greenland
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/viking-history-is-melting-away-in-greenland/

Of all the archaeological sites in Greenland, Norse settlements are at the most risk of rotting away as the Arctic warms, according to new research published Thursday in Scientific Reports. The study estimates that up to 70 percent of the organic material in these sites could decay by 2100.

What stands to be lost is a unique record of remarkably preserved material: hair, textiles, human and animal bones, woods, hides, leathers. As the soil warms up and the number of frost-free days increases, microbes attack these fragile organics, leaving only rot behind. The changes are already happening near Greenland’s capital city of Nuuk, says lead study author Jørgen Hollesen, a senior researcher at the National Museum of Denmark. “Here we have some sites where we know that they found a lot of artifacts, a lot of bones, 40 years ago—but today we don’t see that much left,” he says. “There were bones at some point, but now it’s just this fine-grained mush.”



As the Arctic warms, archaeological sites face multiple threats. Coastal erosion and sea level rise can swamp ruins. Thickening vegetation can hide surface traces of archaeological sites, and roots can penetrate into and scramble archaeological layers. Finally, microbes in warmer soil can become more active, devouring organic material that had long stayed preserved.

The new research focuses on that final risk. Hollesen and his colleagues set automated weather stations at five archaeological sites in the Nuuk region, gathering data for two years. They also took dozens of soil and soil organics samples from seven sites stretching across a 120-kilometer (75-mile) line from the sea eastward toward the Inland Ice Sheet. These sites were not limited to Norse settlements, which existed between about A.D. 985 and A.D. 1350; they also included sites from the Saqqaq culture (2500 B.C. to 800 B.C.), the Dorset culture (300 B.C. to A.D. 600) and the Thule culture (A.D. 1300 to modern times).

The results showed that if temperatures rise 2.5 degrees Celsius or 5 degrees C, these sites stood to lose between 30 percent and 70 percent of their organic materials. The Norse Viking-era sites were at the top end of the scale because they are located inland, where soils are dry, Hollesen says. Drier soil gives microbes access to more oxygen, making them more active. The researchers estimate that 35 percent of the organic materials at Viking sites could be gone in a mere 30 years.

Open Access: Jørgen Hollesen, et.al. Predicting the loss of organic archaeological deposits at a regional scale in Greenland,Scientific Reports, 2019
“There are three classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see.” ― Leonardo da Vinci

Insensible before the wave so soon released by callous fate. Affected most, they understand the least, and understanding, when it comes, invariably arrives too late

kassy

  • Grease ice
  • Posts: 755
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 272
  • Likes Given: 325
Re: Archaeology/Paleontology news
« Reply #65 on: August 10, 2019, 09:21:05 AM »
Ancient humans in Ethiopia fled to the mountains 13,000 feet above sea level and hunted GIANT RODENTS to survive the last Ice Age

Scientists have discovered what’s said to be the first evidence of human presence high in Ethiopia’s Bale Mountains dating as far back as 45,000 years ago.

Despite the harsh conditions so high up, researchers say our ancestors made their home in a rock shelter roughly 4,000 meters above sea level (13,123 feet), where they had enough water and could hunt the native giant mole rat for sustenance.

...

he evidence shows ancient humans populated the site at least twice, with the most recent being around 10,000 years ago, near the end of the last Ice Age.

...

While life there may not have been easy, the other option wasn’t ideal either; according to the researchers, the lower valleys would then have been too dry for survival

On the ice-free plateaus of the Bale Mountains, on the other hand, the people had access to drinkable water from melt phases of the nearby glaciers and could hunt the giant rodents that lived in the region.

These settlers would also have access to volcanic obsidian rock, from which they could make tools.

‘The settlement was therefore not only comparatively habitable, but also practical,’ says MLU professor Bruno Glaser, an expert in soil biogeochemistry.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-7342619/Ancient-humans-Ethiopia-fled-mountains-hunted-giant-rodents-survive-Ice-Age.html
Þetta minnismerki er til vitnis um að við vitum hvað er að gerast og hvað þarf að gera. Aðeins þú veist hvort við gerðum eitthvað.

TerryM

  • First-year ice
  • Posts: 5220
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 395
  • Likes Given: 5
Re: Archaeology/Paleontology news
« Reply #66 on: August 11, 2019, 10:21:02 AM »
^^
We seem evolved to survive in cooler climes.
Terry

nanning

  • Grease ice
  • Posts: 864
  • 0Kg CO2, 35 KWh/wk,130L H2O/wk, No heating
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 133
  • Likes Given: 5685
Re: Archaeology/Paleontology news
« Reply #67 on: August 11, 2019, 07:17:47 PM »
^^
We seem evolved to survive in cooler climes.
Terry

We don't have fur.
"It is preoccupation with possessions, more than anything else, that prevents us from living freely and nobly" - Bertrand Russell
   Simple: minimize your possessions and be free and kind    It's just a mindset.       Refugees welcome

kassy

  • Grease ice
  • Posts: 755
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 272
  • Likes Given: 325
Re: Archaeology/Paleontology news
« Reply #68 on: August 12, 2019, 12:03:27 AM »
The valleys were too dry so they went to where the food was.
Þetta minnismerki er til vitnis um að við vitum hvað er að gerast og hvað þarf að gera. Aðeins þú veist hvort við gerðum eitthvað.

TerryM

  • First-year ice
  • Posts: 5220
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 395
  • Likes Given: 5
Re: Archaeology/Paleontology news
« Reply #69 on: August 12, 2019, 12:37:07 AM »
^^
We seem evolved to survive in cooler climes.
Terry

We don't have fur.


We have no fur - but we can use the fur of others, many others.
There is a limit to how naked we can get. ???


Terry

kassy

  • Grease ice
  • Posts: 755
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 272
  • Likes Given: 325
Re: Archaeology/Paleontology news
« Reply #70 on: August 12, 2019, 07:41:02 PM »
In really warm climates the limit seems to be a penchant for ornaments.  :)
Þetta minnismerki er til vitnis um að við vitum hvað er að gerast og hvað þarf að gera. Aðeins þú veist hvort við gerðum eitthvað.

kassy

  • Grease ice
  • Posts: 755
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 272
  • Likes Given: 325
Re: Archaeology/Paleontology news
« Reply #71 on: August 15, 2019, 10:50:20 AM »
Neanderthals spent a surprising amount of time underwater

Erik Trinkaus at Washington University in St Louis, Missouri, and his colleagues investigated the well-preserved ear remains of 77 ancient humans that lived in western Eurasia in the mid-to-late Pleistocene period.

They looked for dense, bony growths in the ear canals known as external auditory exostoses. These are often found in modern surfers and others who spend time in cold, wet and windy conditions, leading to the condition’s other name, “surfer’s ear”.


Trinkaus and his colleagues were surprised to find that around half of the 23 Neanderthals they studied had signs of these growths, which is at least twice as prevalent as in any of the other groups of ancient humans the team studied. This suggests that Neanderthals foraged in water for food and other resources – something that hasn’t been obvious from other archaeological evidence.

...

He and his team also studied the remains of early modern humans from the middle Palaeolithic period, around 130,000 to 80,000 years ago. Only one in four of them had these growths. In humans from the early-to-mid upper Palaeolithic period, around 60,000 to 25,000 years ago, the growths showed up in five out of 24 remains.

https://www.newscientist.com/article/2213407-neanderthals-spent-a-surprising-amount-of-time-underwater
Þetta minnismerki er til vitnis um að við vitum hvað er að gerast og hvað þarf að gera. Aðeins þú veist hvort við gerðum eitthvað.

TerryM

  • First-year ice
  • Posts: 5220
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 395
  • Likes Given: 5
Re: Archaeology/Paleontology news
« Reply #72 on: August 15, 2019, 02:25:48 PM »


^^
The Aquatic Ape
Was he foraging or frolicking?



Terry

Tor Bejnar

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 3041
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 361
  • Likes Given: 187
Re: Archaeology/Paleontology news
« Reply #73 on: August 15, 2019, 04:59:39 PM »
or avoiding predators - I remember a mooselet (okay, a moose calf) standing in a small river we were air-boating on (near Fairbanks, Alaska) that didn't want to get out of the water as we passed (but did, reluctantly).  We later walked to the location and saw wolf tracks on both shores.

or fishing - also in Alaska, I once swam in a spawning stream (.5 - 1 meter deep and 10-15 m wide - a river to my New Mexican sensibilities) and when I took a deep breath and went under water, holding onto a boulder, the salmon would 'treat me like a rock' after about a minute, but when I went up for air, they 'treated me like a bear' and kept their distance.  I could have caught one, but was dissuaded by the visible teeth!  (I grew up bathing and playing in snow-bank sourced streams in Colorado during the summer, so cold water is cool.  A minute is a long time in cold water!)
Arctic ice is healthy for children and other living things.

kassy

  • Grease ice
  • Posts: 755
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 272
  • Likes Given: 325
Re: Archaeology/Paleontology news
« Reply #74 on: August 16, 2019, 10:35:32 AM »
I would think foraging but there is little evidence like fishbones or shells or even DNA traces.

Their diet varied per location:
Researchers looking at the DNA in plaque from Neanderthal remains at the Spanish site of El Sidrón found evidence that they were eating mushrooms, pine nuts, and moss, with no indication of meat in their diet. Meanwhile, scrapings of Neanderthal dental plaque from Spy Cave in Belgium indicated a meat-heavy diet of wild mountain sheep and wooly rhinoceros. Some populations of Neanderthals were definitely more carnivorous than others.

https://www.sapiens.org/column/field-trips/neanderthal-diet/

and they hunted smaller prey too:
The study examined animal bones excavated from eight sites, mostly caves, in southern France, near the Mediterranean Sea, dating from 400,000 to 40,000 years ago. Researchers know they belonged to Neanderthals because of the types of stone tools found there.


"Many of these early Neanderthal sites contained sometimes 80, 90 per cent rabbits," said Eugene Morin, assistant professor of anthropology at Trent University in Peterborough, Ont. "It was not something rare."

The discovery came as a surprise because Neanderthals were thought to hunt almost exclusively large, hoofed animals such as deer, wild cattle, mountain goats and horses. (Remains of elephants were also found at one site, Morin said, but it wasn't clear whether the Neaderthals killed them or scavenged them from other predators).

Hunting rabbits would have required a different technology, such as traps or snares, and would have produced relatively little meat for the effort.

"It's a lot of work to kill a speedy animal like a rabbit," Morin said, adding it suggests Neanderthals were experiencing food shortages and were finding ways to adapt by expanding their diet.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/neanderthal-diet-rabbits-1.4876856

But if you snare them that should take care of the speed?

Some evidence from tools used for fish processing:
https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0023768
Þetta minnismerki er til vitnis um að við vitum hvað er að gerast og hvað þarf að gera. Aðeins þú veist hvort við gerðum eitthvað.

TerryM

  • First-year ice
  • Posts: 5220
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 395
  • Likes Given: 5
Re: Archaeology/Paleontology news
« Reply #75 on: August 16, 2019, 12:21:08 PM »
Rabbit sticks, bolos, fire drives and in ancient times round hardwood atlatl heads or "bolls" were all used in the American West to hunt rabbits and other small game prior to and post the introduction of the bow and arrow.
Atlatls disappeared very soon after bows were introduced, at least in the desert regions of the South west.
AFAIK Neanderthal never developed the atlatl, but the other techniques and equipment probably wouldn't leave identifiable artifacts.
None of these preclude nets and snares of course, but they do fit my preconceptions of Neanderthal as a vigorous people not inclined to set a trap and wait for a passing rabbit.


I'd never heard of vegan Neanderthal previously :)  and the aquatic lifestyle was a shocker.


I've always pictured the Neanderthal as much brighter than our more direct antecedents, primarily due to cranial capacity, but the victors get to skew history (and prehistory).


I'll try to remember the name Morin, and look him up if he and I should attend the next OAS Conference. It sounds as though he's made some unexpected and game changing discoveries.


Nice catch!
Terry
I think hiding behind a tree and making noises like a carrot was one of the lesser known techniques of capturing rabbits. ::)

Tor Bejnar

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 3041
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 361
  • Likes Given: 187
Re: Archaeology/Paleontology news
« Reply #76 on: August 16, 2019, 05:30:44 PM »
Neanderthal Use of Fish, Mammals, Birds, Starchy Plants and Wood 125-250,000 Years Ago
Bruce L. Hardy, Marie-Hélène Moncel  -  PLOS  -  Published: August 24, 2011
https://doi.org/10.1371/journal.pone.0023768
Quote
Abstract
Neanderthals are most often portrayed as big game hunters who derived the vast majority of their diet from large terrestrial herbivores while birds, fish and plants are seen as relatively unimportant or beyond the capabilities of Neanderthals. Although evidence for exploitation of other resources (small mammals, birds, fish, shellfish, and plants) has been found at certain Neanderthal sites, these are typically dismissed as unusual exceptions. The general view suggests that Neanderthal diet may broaden with time, but that this only occurs sometime after 50,000 years ago. We present evidence, in the form of lithic residue and use-wear analyses, for an example of a broad-based subsistence for Neanderthals at the site of Payre, Ardèche, France (beginning of MIS 5/end of MIS 6 to beginning of MIS 7/end of MIS 8; approximately 125–250,000 years ago). In addition to large terrestrial herbivores, Neanderthals at Payre also exploited starchy plants, birds, and fish. These results demonstrate a varied subsistence already in place with early Neanderthals and suggest that our ideas of Neanderthal subsistence are biased by our dependence on the zooarchaeological record and a deep-seated intellectual emphasis on big game hunting.
Arctic ice is healthy for children and other living things.

SteveMDFP

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1436
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 182
  • Likes Given: 15
Re: Archaeology/Paleontology news
« Reply #77 on: August 16, 2019, 05:46:06 PM »
I would think foraging but there is little evidence like fishbones or shells or even DNA traces.

I'd agree.  The exostoses in the ear canals likely reflect some kind of inflammation.  H sapiens typically gets otitis externa (said inflammation) from getting water trapped in the ear canal.  But it's a bit of a stretch to suggest this was the exact etiology for a different species.

Cats (who avoid swimming) get otitis externa from infection, such as mites or the fungal genus Malassezia.

Neanderthals are known to have had a much heavier bone structure than modern humans.  It's plausible that they were faster to form bony growths in areas of inflammation.  Given the absence of other evidence for an aquatic lifestyle, I'd think a propensity to acquire Malassezia infections in the ear canal might be a more likely explanation.  Possibly H sapiens introduced Malassezia to the Neanderthal population.

There are certainly examples of incursions of a population into new areas that led to devastating epidemics in indigenous peoples.

Tor Bejnar

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 3041
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 361
  • Likes Given: 187
Re: Archaeology/Paleontology news
« Reply #78 on: August 16, 2019, 08:59:10 PM »
What were Neanderthals eating?
By: Jordyn Fugere **
Quote

On the other side of the debate we have evidence for a larger variation in Neanderthal diet consisting not only of a considerable amount of protein from large terrestrial mammals, but also protein and nutrients from marine resources (fish & shellfish), avian resources (birds), smaller mammals, starchy [p]ants], and underground storage vessels like tubers. Hardy and Moncel studied the stone tools from the Payre Neanderthal site in the Rhone Valley of France.  125 of the 182 artifacts they studied exhibited use-wear traces and microscopic residues of the  resources the tools had been  used to process. Hardy and Moncel found that 18 of the 182 artifacts demonstrated a high/hard silica polish indicative of use on starchy plant processing. 31 out of the 182 artifacts showed residues of mammal processing by the presence of hair, bone, skin, muscle tissue and soft polish wear patterns. The most surprising evidence is found in the presence of marine processing, evident on 10/182 artifacts. Fish residue can be distinguished by scale fragments, bone fragments, skeletal muscle or iridophores, as well as by dull/greasy polish streaks. However, these polish streaks are slightly inconsistent and difficult to distinguish at times. A single avian residue artifact was also found at the site, as evidenced by feather barbules present on the artifact’s cutting surface.

In the Middle Paleolithic-Mediterranean Neanderthal sites there is evidence of tortoise and shellfish remains in the fossil record as they were easy to catch and occurred in large abundances.

I did not include any of the "mostly or all meat" evidence included in the student's paper, but it was presented.  It appears to me that in some places Neanderthal ate "A" and in other places they ate "B".
_____
** - "We are a group of undergraduate students from the University of Minnesota Twin Cities who are interested in in presenting the latest research on Neanderthals. We created this website during November and December of 2013."
Arctic ice is healthy for children and other living things.

DrTskoul

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1451
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 210
  • Likes Given: 60
Re: Archaeology/Paleontology news
« Reply #79 on: August 16, 2019, 09:00:27 PM »
Most of the time they ate food...

Tor Bejnar

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 3041
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 361
  • Likes Given: 187
Re: Archaeology/Paleontology news
« Reply #80 on: August 16, 2019, 09:17:41 PM »
Although I'd mostly not eat what they ate …
I'll stick with "A is for apple, B is for bean", and avoid "C is for caribou and D is for deer."
Arctic ice is healthy for children and other living things.

nanning

  • Grease ice
  • Posts: 864
  • 0Kg CO2, 35 KWh/wk,130L H2O/wk, No heating
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 133
  • Likes Given: 5685
Re: Archaeology/Paleontology news
« Reply #81 on: August 17, 2019, 07:05:23 AM »
You would need a much stronger set of jaws and jaw-muscles to chew your way through their food.
"It is preoccupation with possessions, more than anything else, that prevents us from living freely and nobly" - Bertrand Russell
   Simple: minimize your possessions and be free and kind    It's just a mindset.       Refugees welcome

Tor Bejnar

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 3041
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 361
  • Likes Given: 187
Re: Archaeology/Paleontology news
« Reply #82 on: August 17, 2019, 04:48:11 PM »
Yup, chewing gum wears my jaw out.  That's what I get for having a diet of tofu, cooked cauliflower and butter pecan ice cream (plus greens, beans grains and fruit).  :)
Arctic ice is healthy for children and other living things.

nanning

  • Grease ice
  • Posts: 864
  • 0Kg CO2, 35 KWh/wk,130L H2O/wk, No heating
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 133
  • Likes Given: 5685
Re: Archaeology/Paleontology news
« Reply #83 on: August 17, 2019, 05:32:33 PM »
(I think this thread is appropriate :) )
Gerontocrat, your First-year ice is getting torched by your supremacy, sire.
Am I an alarmist here?

Sorry for the off-topic.
"It is preoccupation with possessions, more than anything else, that prevents us from living freely and nobly" - Bertrand Russell
   Simple: minimize your possessions and be free and kind    It's just a mindset.       Refugees welcome

vox_mundi

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1613
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 618
  • Likes Given: 111
Re: Archaeology/Paleontology news
« Reply #84 on: August 20, 2019, 05:44:51 PM »
Stone Age Boat Building Site Discovered Underwater
https://phys.org/news/2019-08-stone-age-boat-site-underwater.html

The Maritime Archaeological Trust has discovered a new 8,000 year old structure next to what is believed to be the oldest boat building site in the world on the Isle of Wight.

The site lies east of Yarmouth, and the new platform is the most intact, wooden Middle Stone Age structure ever found in the UK. The site is now 11 meters below sea level and during the period there was human activity on the site, it was dry land with lush vegetation. Importantly, it was at a time before the North Sea was fully formed and the Isle of Wight was still connected to mainland Europe.

The site was first discovered in 2005 and contains an arrangement of trimmed timbers that could be platforms, walkways or collapsed structures. ... It was then excavated by the Maritime Archaeological Trust during the summer and has revealed a cohesive platform consisting of split timbers, several layers thick, resting on horizontally laid round-wood foundations.

Garry continued "The site contains a wealth of evidence for technological skills that were not thought to have been developed for a further couple of thousand years, such as advanced wood working. This site shows the value of marine archaeology for understanding the development of civilisation.

“There are three classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see.” ― Leonardo da Vinci

Insensible before the wave so soon released by callous fate. Affected most, they understand the least, and understanding, when it comes, invariably arrives too late

kassy

  • Grease ice
  • Posts: 755
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 272
  • Likes Given: 325
Re: Archaeology/Paleontology news
« Reply #85 on: August 21, 2019, 02:51:55 PM »
That is a really cool find!  :)

Here is a puzzle:

DNA Analysis Just Made The Eerie Mystery of Himalayan 'Skeleton Lake' Even Stranger

High in the Himalayas of India, amid the snow-capped peaks, nestles a mystery. Roopkund Lake is a shallow body of water filled with human bones - the skeletons of hundreds of individuals. It's these that give the lake its other name, Skeleton Lake, and no one knows how the remains came to be there.

...

This analysis revealed three distinct groups. The largest consisted of 23 individuals with DNA similar to that of people from present-day India. Apart from this, they seemed genetically unrelated.

The second-largest group, comprising 14 individuals, was a huge surprise. Their DNA was most similar to people in present-day Crete and Greece.

Finally, the one remaining individual had DNA suggesting a Southeast Asian origin.

...

Even more surprising was the staggered arrival times of the groups. Radiocarbon dating placed the Indian-related bones between the 7th and 10th centuries CE. It's possible they were divided into different groups at different times within this timespan.

But the other two groups, from the Mediterranean and from Southeast Asia, were dated to between the 17th and 20th centuries CE. That's just a few hundred years ago. And it's possible that the remains that haven't been tested could include other groups, from other times and other regions.

https://www.sciencealert.com/the-mystery-of-skeleton-lake-in-the-himalayas-has-just-deepened
Þetta minnismerki er til vitnis um að við vitum hvað er að gerast og hvað þarf að gera. Aðeins þú veist hvort við gerðum eitthvað.

vox_mundi

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1613
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 618
  • Likes Given: 111
Re: Archaeology/Paleontology news
« Reply #86 on: August 21, 2019, 04:34:48 PM »
Kassy, what's really weird about the skeletons in Roopkund Lake is HOW they died.

... It wasn’t until 2004 that a proper investigation into the deaths began, and the mysterious remains were revealed to the world. National Geographic Channel commissioned European and Indian researchers to retrieve the bones and tissue samples from the area and analyze them.

... all the bodies date to around 850 AD. DNA evidence indicates that there were two distinct groups of people, one a family or tribe of closely related individuals, and a second smaller, shorter group of locals, likely hired as porters and guides. Rings, spears, leather shoes, and bamboo staves were found, leading experts to believe that the group was comprised of pilgrims heading through the valley with the help of the locals.

All the bodies had died in a similar way, from blows to the head. However, the short deep cracks in the skulls appeared to be the result not of weapons, but rather of something rounded. The bodies also only had wounds on their heads, and shoulders as if the blows had all come from directly above. What had killed them all, porter and pilgrim alike?

Among Himalayan women there is an ancient and traditional folk song. The lyrics describe a goddess so enraged at outsiders who defiled her mountain sanctuary that she rained death upon them by flinging hailstones “hard as iron.” After much research and consideration, the 2004 expedition came to the same conclusion. All 200 people died from a sudden and severe hailstorm.

Trapped in the valley with nowhere to hide or seek shelter, the “hard as iron” cricket ball-sized [about 23 centimeter/9 inches circumference] hailstones came by the thousands, resulting in the travelers’ bizarre sudden death. The remains lay in the lake for 1,200 years until their discovery.

https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/skeleton-lake-of-roopkund-india
“There are three classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see.” ― Leonardo da Vinci

Insensible before the wave so soon released by callous fate. Affected most, they understand the least, and understanding, when it comes, invariably arrives too late

kassy

  • Grease ice
  • Posts: 755
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 272
  • Likes Given: 325
Re: Archaeology/Paleontology news
« Reply #87 on: August 22, 2019, 04:49:32 PM »
LOL i posted it because it was such a nice quirky story but this is something else.

So if it´s hailstones why do they all end up in the lake? ... need hi res local map.

In 1942 a British forest guard in Roopkund, India made an alarming discovery. Some 16,000 feet above sea level, at the bottom of a small valley, was a frozen lake absolutely full of skeletons

Flesh, hair, and the bones themselves had been preserved by the dry, cold air, but no one could properly determine exactly when they were from.


Since they have flesh and hair you would think the lake is just the place where they collect after being transported there.
Þetta minnismerki er til vitnis um að við vitum hvað er að gerast og hvað þarf að gera. Aðeins þú veist hvort við gerðum eitthvað.

vox_mundi

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1613
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 618
  • Likes Given: 111
Re: Archaeology/Paleontology news
« Reply #88 on: August 22, 2019, 04:58:46 PM »
Quote
... So if it´s hailstones why do they all end up in the lake?

Everything ends up in the lake.

Also, the word 'lake' is a bit of a stretch ...


Roopkund 'Lake'
“There are three classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see.” ― Leonardo da Vinci

Insensible before the wave so soon released by callous fate. Affected most, they understand the least, and understanding, when it comes, invariably arrives too late

kassy

  • Grease ice
  • Posts: 755
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 272
  • Likes Given: 325
Re: Archaeology/Paleontology news
« Reply #89 on: August 23, 2019, 05:09:36 PM »
Looks lakeish enough for me.  ;)


The oldest RNA sample ever has been moved quite a bit. They found it in a puppy frozen for 14,3k years: 

The puppy found preserved in permafrost in Tumat in 2015 was either a wolf or a domesticated wolf-dog hybrid, scientists cannot be certain.

...

DNA encodes the hard copy of genes, and can survive thousands of years if conditions are right.

But RNA is seen as short-lived: it is the working copy of a gene.

DNA analysis shows what kind of genes a species had, while RNA explains which genes were working and which were silent.

Now Dr Oliver Smith, of Copenhagen University, and his colleagues analysed the RNA from the liver, cartilage and muscle tissue of the ancient animal.

‘The scientists showed that the RNA sequenced from liver tissue of the Tumat puppy was truly representative of the animal’s RNA, with many liver-specific transcripts that matched more modern samples from both wolves and dogs,’ reported sci-news.com

‘The canid’s transcriptome is the oldest RNA sequenced by far, surpassing the next oldest transcriptome by at least 13,000 years.’

https://siberiantimes.com/science/casestudy/features/siberian-puppy-frozen-in-permafrost-for-14300-years-gives-scientists-major-rna-breakthrough/
Þetta minnismerki er til vitnis um að við vitum hvað er að gerast og hvað þarf að gera. Aðeins þú veist hvort við gerðum eitthvað.

kassy

  • Grease ice
  • Posts: 755
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 272
  • Likes Given: 325
Re: Archaeology/Paleontology news
« Reply #90 on: August 24, 2019, 11:03:51 AM »
Genetics is a powerful tool for looking into the past. Two cool examples.

Here's how early humans evaded immunodeficiency viruses
CryoEM reveals structural effect of mutation that made humans, but not apes, immune to SIV

Summary:
The cryoEM structure of a simian immunodeficiency virus protein bound to primate proteins shows how a mutation in early humans allowed our ancestors to escape infection while monkeys and apes did not. ... A mutation in human tetherin disrupted binding, thwarting SIV budding -- until HIV evolved a work-around.

...

SIV developed a new trick

Some variants of SIV did eventually find a way around this hurdle, however. At some point, a few SIVs acquired a second protein, Vpu, to do what Nef also did -- wedge itself between proteins to cement connections helpful to the virus. At some point, perhaps a hundred years ago, this strain of SIV moved into humans from chimpanzees, and a slight mutation in Vpu reignited the recycling of tetherin in humans, unleashing what we know today as group M HIV-1, the most virulent form of HIV worldwide.

"There were probably many crossovers into humans that failed, but eventually, some hunter in Africa, perhaps in the course of butchering a chimp, was exposed to the blood, and the virus then acquired an additional mutation, a small step that turned SIV into HIV," Hurley said.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/08/190822141901.htm

and

The Paleozoic diet: Why animals eat what they eat

What an animal eats is a fundamental aspect of its biology, but surprisingly, the evolution of diet had not been studied across the animal kingdom until now. Scientists at the University of Arizona report several unexpected findings from taking a deep dive into the evolutionary history of more than one million animal species and going back 800 million years, when the first animals appeared on our planet.

...

The survey suggests that across animals, carnivory is most common, including 63% of species. Another 32% are herbivorous, while humans belong to a small minority, just 3%, of omnivorous animals.

The researchers were surprised to find that many of today's carnivorous species trace this diet back all the way to the base of the animal evolutionary tree, more than 800 million years, predating the oldest known fossils that paleontologists have been able to assign to animal origins with certainty.

"We don't see that with herbivory," said Wiens, professor of ecology and evolutionary biology and corresponding author of the study. "Herbivory seems to be much more recent, so in our evolutionary tree, it appears more frequently closer to the tips of the tree."

So if the first animal was a carnivore, what did it prey on?

The authors suggest the answer might lie with protists, including choanoflagellates: tiny, single-celled organisms considered to be the closest living relatives of the animals. Living as plankton in marine and freshwater, choanoflagellates are vaguely reminiscent of miniature versions of the shuttlecock batted back and forth during a game of badminton.

...

"The ancient creature that is most closely related to all animals living today might have eaten bacteria and other protists rather than plants," Wiens said.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/08/190822165028.htm
Þetta minnismerki er til vitnis um að við vitum hvað er að gerast og hvað þarf að gera. Aðeins þú veist hvort við gerðum eitthvað.

vox_mundi

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1613
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 618
  • Likes Given: 111
Re: Archaeology/Paleontology news
« Reply #91 on: August 26, 2019, 05:27:56 PM »
Small Skulls Point to Human Migration Highway to Australia
https://phys.org/news/2019-08-small-skulls-human-migration-highway.html

Human remains discovered on Alor island in Indonesia offer new insight into human migration through Southeast Asia thousands of years ago, say researchers from The Australian National University (ANU).

Lead researcher Dr. Sofía Samper Carro says the two skulls, dated between 12,000 and 17,000 years old, are the oldest human remains ever found in Wallacea—the islands between Java, Papua New Guinea and Australia.

"What is really interesting is the small size of their heads," Dr. Samper Carro said.



"The size seems to be similar to other remains found later in this region, dated to between 7,000—10,000 years old. This is potentially the result of a reduction in size after the first modern humans settled in these islands.

Dr. Samper Carro says one possible explanation for this is the so-called "island effect"—the idea that when humans and other large mammals get to an island where there are not enough food resources and predators, they tend to get smaller, while small mammals will get bigger.

"It's been suggested this is what may've happened to Homo floresiensis (hobbit) and, potentially, it may have also affected the recently discovered Homo luzonensis," Dr. Samper Carro said.

A huge number of fish bones have also been found in the Tron Bon Lei site in Alor, which could offer some important clues.

Sofía C. Samper Carro et al. Somewhere beyond the sea: Human cranial remains from the Lesser Sunda Islands (Alor Island, Indonesia) provide insights on Late Pleistocene peopling of Island Southeast Asia, Journal of Human Evolution (2019)

... The human remains from Tron Bon Lei represent a population osteometrically distinct from Late Pleistocene Sunda and Sahul AMH. Instead, morphometrically, they appear more similar to Holocene populations in the Lesser Sundas. Thus, they may represent the remains of a population originally from Sunda whose Lesser Sunda Island descendants survived into the Holocene.

--------------------------

Maybe Peter Jackson was on to something, filming 'The Lord of the Rings' in New Zealand

“There are three classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see.” ― Leonardo da Vinci

Insensible before the wave so soon released by callous fate. Affected most, they understand the least, and understanding, when it comes, invariably arrives too late

wili

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 2589
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 163
  • Likes Given: 301
Re: Archaeology/Paleontology news
« Reply #92 on: August 26, 2019, 07:26:44 PM »
Speaking of LOTR, is there any connection between these and Homo floresiensis?

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/news/2016/06/hobbits-humans-older-ancestors-island-fossils-archaeology/
"A force de chercher de bonnes raisons, on en trouve; on les dit; et après on y tient, non pas tant parce qu'elles sont bonnes que pour ne pas se démentir." Choderlos de Laclos "You struggle to come up with some valid reasons, then cling to them, not because they're good, but just to not back down."

kassy

  • Grease ice
  • Posts: 755
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 272
  • Likes Given: 325
Re: Archaeology/Paleontology news
« Reply #93 on: August 26, 2019, 09:22:27 PM »
Since the article states they (the old ones) are homo erectus so probably not.
It would be cool if we got genetic data from the new ones.
Þetta minnismerki er til vitnis um að við vitum hvað er að gerast og hvað þarf að gera. Aðeins þú veist hvort við gerðum eitthvað.

johnm33

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1282
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 80
  • Likes Given: 40
Re: Archaeology/Paleontology news
« Reply #94 on: August 26, 2019, 11:42:20 PM »
Size is very dependant on diet mainly diets of ancestors. If you want to be tall the best thing to do is make sure your maternal grandmother eats well before and during her pregnancy. After generations of near starvation the English were reduced in height to an average of about 5ft, many victorian houses in the 1950s still had doors that were less than 6ft. high. So within three generations the size/height of a population can be transformed.
I've never seen a study that examined the cumulative effects of great/rubbish diets over long periods but there was a Finnish study that established that the effects of starvation carried implications for genetic expression through at least 7 generations.
 

TerryM

  • First-year ice
  • Posts: 5220
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 395
  • Likes Given: 5
Re: Archaeology/Paleontology news
« Reply #95 on: August 26, 2019, 11:49:57 PM »
Size is very dependant on diet mainly diets of ancestors. If you want to be tall the best thing to do is make sure your maternal grandmother eats well before and during her pregnancy. After generations of near starvation the English were reduced in height to an average of about 5ft, many victorian houses in the 1950s still had doors that were less than 6ft. high. So within three generations the size/height of a population can be transformed.
I've never seen a study that examined the cumulative effects of great/rubbish diets over long periods but there was a Finnish study that established that the effects of starvation carried implications for genetic expression through at least 7 generations.
I've witnessed the effect that eating tulips has had on the intellect of following generation. Sad.
Terry

johnm33

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1282
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 80
  • Likes Given: 40
Re: Archaeology/Paleontology news
« Reply #96 on: August 27, 2019, 01:31:25 AM »
So drifting ot "I've witnessed the effect that eating tulips has had on the intellect of following generation. Sad.
Terry" do tell
Intellect so far as I can see also depends on ancestral decisions. If cousin marraige, or isolated populations forced to inbreed, happens IQ drops @15 points with no advantages. If girls are allowed to breed then IQ drops @15 points with the advantages of robust physicallity/immunity and unwarranted confidence plus early 'maturity'. I guess the message from our genetic code is [if you want to be smart and tall] avoid Tulips/Cousins/Sisters eat well and wait wait wait.
Terry I guess that your maternal grandmother was over 25 and well nourished when she produced your mother?

wili

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 2589
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 163
  • Likes Given: 301
Re: Archaeology/Paleontology news
« Reply #97 on: August 27, 2019, 02:18:49 AM »
I thought that was some kind of subtle slam by Terry against Neven!  :o

There are many reports that many people in the Netherlands resorted to eating tulip bulbs at some point during WWII. Apparently, though, most were careful to remove the center, which seems to be the poisonous part.

Perhaps others can throw more light on the subject, since I'm a bit of a dim bulb... :)

http://alloveralbany.com/archive/2008/05/09/tulips-really-are-edible-sort-of
« Last Edit: August 27, 2019, 02:49:18 AM by wili »
"A force de chercher de bonnes raisons, on en trouve; on les dit; et après on y tient, non pas tant parce qu'elles sont bonnes que pour ne pas se démentir." Choderlos de Laclos "You struggle to come up with some valid reasons, then cling to them, not because they're good, but just to not back down."

TerryM

  • First-year ice
  • Posts: 5220
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 395
  • Likes Given: 5
Re: Archaeology/Paleontology news
« Reply #98 on: August 27, 2019, 03:28:02 AM »
So drifting ot "I've witnessed the effect that eating tulips has had on the intellect of following generation. Sad.
Terry" do tell
Intellect so far as I can see also depends on ancestral decisions. If cousin marraige, or isolated populations forced to inbreed, happens IQ drops @15 points with no advantages. If girls are allowed to breed then IQ drops @15 points with the advantages of robust physicallity/immunity and unwarranted confidence plus early 'maturity'. I guess the message from our genetic code is [if you want to be smart and tall] avoid Tulips/Cousins/Sisters eat well and wait wait wait.
Terry I guess that your maternal grandmother was over 25 and well nourished when she produced your mother?
Right on both counts. She was also tall (for her generation) and was married the gent who was the first superintendent of GE's initial laboratory and manufacturing facility when my mother was born. I was born when my mother at 43, owned 5 upscale interior decoration stores, my father owned 2 factories. - We missed the "Depression"

Terry

TerryM

  • First-year ice
  • Posts: 5220
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 395
  • Likes Given: 5
Re: Archaeology/Paleontology news
« Reply #99 on: August 27, 2019, 03:31:57 AM »
I thought that was some kind of subtle slam by Terry against Neven!  :o

There are many reports that many people in the Netherlands resorted to eating tulip bulbs at some point during WWII. Apparently, though, most were careful to remove the center, which seems to be the poisonous part.

Perhaps others can throw more light on the subject, since I'm a bit of a dim bulb... :)

http://alloveralbany.com/archive/2008/05/09/tulips-really-are-edible-sort-of
Wili
You should know that I'd never - subtly or overtly - imply that our (very bright) host has an intellectual deficiency of any kind.
Terry