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vox_mundi

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #5000 on: October 02, 2020, 10:42:32 PM »
Maybe it's a Zero-point energy (ZPE) harvester?
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Ken Feldman

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #5001 on: October 03, 2020, 12:00:37 AM »
China just connected a 2.2 GW capacity solar farm to the grid.  It took four months to build. 

https://www.cnet.com/news/chinas-biggest-ever-solar-power-plant-goes-live/

Quote
China's biggest-ever solar power plant goes live

The world leader in solar power this week connected a 2.2GW plant to the grid. It's the second largest in the world.
Daniel Van Boom Oct 1, 2020

Quote
The solar park has a capacity of 2.2GW. That makes it the second biggest in the world, narrowly trailing India's 2.245GW Bhadla solar park. Until now, China's biggest solar station was the Tengger Desert Solar Park, with a capacity of 1.54GW. For comparison, the US' biggest solar farm has a capacity of 579MW.

The power station also includes a storage component, as it includes a 202.86 MWh energy storage plant. Construction on the project was completed in September after just four months.

Even with a capacity factor of 25%, solar outcompetes the alternatives with higher theoretical capcity factors.  For example, nuclear power plants in the US achieve 90% capacity factors while the global average is 80%. It takes  4 to 6 years to build a nuclear power plant in China and decades in the US and Europe.  Since solar farms can be built much faster, they can start paying back their costs much sooner than competing plants.


Wildcatter

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #5002 on: October 03, 2020, 04:01:28 AM »
Additionally, nuclear generation, at least in Western nations where costs spiral out of control, is always a guaranteed 30-35 year deal, where ratepayers are captured by a monopoly entity.

For example, Hinkley C will start off producing electricity for about $120/MWh in 2025. The contract is a 35-year deal, with the "strike price" (price for electricity generation) tied to inflation, usually just regarded as about 1%. This means when Hinkley C still has 15 guaranteed years left on its deal, in 2045, it'll be about $150/MWh. For the output of an 80-90% capacity factor 3.2GW nuclear reactor. Cost over alternatives by 2060, when the contract ends, is going to be astronomical. Probably $100 billion, or more. Green hydrogen turbines will be cheaper in 10 years, when Hinkley is 5 years into a 35 year deal.

That's probably the biggest misconception, it actively locks in decades of high priced generation. Next time someone says build nuclear, mention that. Who's going to end up paying that markup when affluent, and even more middle class, live in higher efficiency dwellings and/or have rooftop solar + home batteries eventually? The entire working class that doesn't own their own home. And by the time a nuclear reactor is built in the West, hydrogen fired turbines will be cheaper anyway.

That's why the only entities you see pursuing it in the West are corrupt utilities and politicians who want kickbacks.

crandles

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #5003 on: October 03, 2020, 01:31:42 PM »
Ever hear of 'perpetual motion machines'?
Just wow!

I assume the energy removed cools the graphene making it less likely to flex so in a vacuum not receiving any radiated energy the power/energy would decline and disappear. It presumably only continues to work because it gets slightly cooler and receives heat energy from its surroundings.

So no breach of conservation of energy. But yeah closest we are going to get to perpetual motion machine esp as absorbing heat is beneficial cooling for chips.

Presumably entropy continues to increase in some manner even if it seems like energy is getting concentrated?

oren

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #5004 on: October 03, 2020, 01:35:42 PM »
I wonder if it needs the surroundings to be cooler than the graphene? If so it reduces the possible applications. But still an amazing invention if it works.

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #5005 on: October 03, 2020, 10:22:26 PM »
I wonder how low output in watts is. I know proof of concept is a breakthrough but the lack of output numbers which were undoubtedly measured makes me curious. I suspect physical limitations will make this no more than a curiosity for some time to come.       

vox_mundi

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #5006 on: October 03, 2020, 10:34:21 PM »
It's Open Source:

P. M. Thibado, et.al, Fluctuation-induced current from freestanding graphene, Physical Review E, (2020)
https://journals.aps.org/pre/abstract/10.1103/PhysRevE.102.042101



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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #5007 on: October 03, 2020, 10:41:52 PM »
If it requires a temperature gradient it would not be that interesting as that has been available for some time. About 5 years ago the us military made a radio that is powered by the temperature difference of the body to ambient temperature. It was an increase in power produced but not a new concept. The device must have skin contact to work.

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #5008 on: October 03, 2020, 10:53:24 PM »
Interesting but need about 5 orders of magnitude power increase to power lower power electronics.

crandles

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #5009 on: October 03, 2020, 11:56:14 PM »
Interesting but need about 5 orders of magnitude power increase to power lower power electronics.

Did you read the part which says

Quote
If millions of these tiny circuits could be built on a 1-millimeter by 1-millimeter chip, they could serve as a low-power battery replacement.

Sounds like at least 6 orders of magnitude improvement needed for one circuit to be useful but if you can do millions of these circuits on a chip and combine their power then it could be useful.


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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #5010 on: October 04, 2020, 01:24:28 AM »
It looks pay walled to me.


I am speculating beyond my knowledge but here goes. If the circuits can be made that small it would be amazing and is worth pursuing. I am wondering how small it can be scaled. Physical size limitations seem to put it on the border of usability although the approximations I used may be wrong. Any interference of the circuits or requirements to make the sheets larger than estimated can push it out of the usable zone. A minimum size graphene sheet may be required to provide a sufficient pulse. Another possibility is the pulse may be increased by graphene sheet size.

Ken Feldman

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #5011 on: October 06, 2020, 12:43:18 AM »
Solar is now doing to natural gas what natural gas and renewables did to coal.  Kick it off the grid.

https://cleantechnica.com/2020/10/03/rocky-mountain-institute-study-shows-renewables-are-kicking-natural-gas-to-the-curb/

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Rocky Mountain Institute Study Shows Renewables Are Kicking Natural Gas To The Curb

October 3rd, 2020 by Steve Hanley

After analyzing the most recent data from two of America’s largest electricity markets — ERCOT in Texas and PJM in the Northeast — the Rocky Mountain Institute has come to a startling conclusion. Renewables are muscling in on natural gas as the preferred choice for new electricity generation. In fact, according to RMI, what happened to coal is now happening to gas. What is needed, the organization argues, is a move away from the monopoly markets that have been the norm in the utility industry for more than 100 years and toward more open competition. Because when renewables compete head to head with thermal generation, they win hands down 95% of the time.



Quote
RMI finds that since 2018, the queue for clean energy projects has more than doubled while the queue for gas projects has been cut in half. In all, more than $30 billion worth of gas projects have been canceled or abandoned. Currently, the capacity of wind, solar, and storage projects slated for construction in ERCOT and PJM is ten times greater than for new gas projects.



Note that the above article is based on theoretical generation "nameplate capacity".  We won't know the actual shares of power generation until the projects are built and operated.  The actual operation of the power plants will also influence their capacity factors, which in theory are higher for fossil fuel plants but in practice the fossil fuel plants tend to be the first to be curtailed since renewables are cheaper to operate than coal and natural gas. (Do I need to include this caveat in every post, or can we assume people already know the standard denier arguments and the response to them?)

oren

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #5012 on: October 06, 2020, 04:14:29 AM »
Quote
RMI finds that since 2018, the queue for clean energy projects has more than doubled while the queue for gas projects has been cut in half. In all, more than $30 billion worth of gas projects have been canceled or abandoned. Currently, the capacity of wind, solar, and storage projects slated for construction in ERCOT and PJM is ten times greater than for new gas projects.

Note that the above article is based on theoretical generation "nameplate capacity".  We won't know the actual shares of power generation until the projects are built and operated.  The actual operation of the power plants will also influence their capacity factors, which in theory are higher for fossil fuel plants but in practice the fossil fuel plants tend to be the first to be curtailed since renewables are cheaper to operate than coal and natural gas. (Do I need to include this caveat in every post, or can we assume people already know the standard denier arguments and the response to them?)
To replace fossil fuel plants with renewables while maintaining the same total production level would require a higher nameplate capacity than was previously installed, due to the different capacity factor. Thus comparing new solar capacity with existing or new gas or coal capacity does not give an apples-to-apples comparison. Some news items discussing renewables deal with their share of production, which is the true physical measure, while others deal with their nameplate capacity. IMHO when the item deals with capacity, that would best be highlighted using an underline, a bold, or some other non-intrusive measure. Just my 2 cents.

Ken Feldman

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #5013 on: October 13, 2020, 10:39:52 PM »
The IEA has released the World Energy Outlook 2020 with updated projections for future energy use.

https://www.iea.org/reports/world-energy-outlook-2020

The big news is that the IEA is finally recognizing that renewables are cheaper than fossil fuels and that the energy transition is well underway.  Solar is now projected to be the leading form of electricity generation in the future.

Quote
Renewables grow rapidly in all our scenarios, with solar at the centre of this new constellation of electricity generation technologies. Supportive policies and maturing technologies are enabling very cheap access to capital in leading markets. With sharp cost reductions over the past decade, solar PV is consistently cheaper than new coal- or gas fired power plants in most countries, and solar projects now offer some of the lowest cost electricity ever seen. In the STEPS, renewables meet 80% of the growth in global electricity demand to 2030. Hydropower remains the largest renewable source of electricity, but solar is the main driver of growth as it sets new records for deployment each year after 2022, followed by onshore and offshore wind. The advance of renewable sources of generation, and of solar in particular, as well as the contribution of nuclear power, is much stronger in the SDS and NZE2050. The pace of change in the electricity sector puts an additional premium on robust grids and other sources of flexibility, as well as reliable supplies of the critical minerals and metals that are vital to its secure transformation. Storage plays an increasingly vital role in ensuring the flexible operation of power systems, with India becoming the largest market for utility-scale battery storage.

And the IEA, long an advocate for fossil fuel producers, is now calling on them to diversify if they wish to survive.

Quote
Lower prices and downward revisions to demand, resulting from the pandemic, have cut around one-quarter off the value of future oil and gas production. Many oil and gas producers, notably those in the Middle East and Africa such as Iraq and Nigeria, are facing acute fiscal pressures as a result of high reliance on hydrocarbon revenues. Now, more than ever, fundamental efforts to diversify and reform the economies of some major oil and gas exporters look unavoidable. The US shale industry has met nearly 60% of the increase in global oil and gas demand over the last ten years, but this rise was fuelled by easy credit that has now dried up. So far in 2020, leading oil and gas companies have reduced the reported worth of their assets by more than $50 billion, a palpable expression of a shift in perceptions about the future. Investment in oil and gas supply has fallen by one-third compared with 2019, and the extent and timing of any pick-up in spending is unclear. So too is the ability of the industry to meet it in a timely way: this could presage new price cycles and risks to energy security.

The IEA also recognizes that the current trends alone aren't enough to cut greenhouse gas emissions quickly enough to avoid exceeding the Paris targets.  They call for governments to adopt their Sustainable Recovery Plan.

Quote
A step-change in clean energy investment, in line with the IEA Sustainable Recovery Plan, offers a way to boost economic recovery, create jobs and reduce emissions. This approach has not featured prominently in the plans proposed to date, except in the European Union, the United Kingdom, Canada, Korea, New Zealand and a handful of other countries. In the SDS, full implementation of the IEA Sustainable Recovery Plan, published in June 2020 in co-operation with the International Monetary Fund, puts the global energy economy on a different post-crisis track. Additional investment of $1 trillion a year between 2021 and 2023 in the SDS is directed towards improvements in efficiency, low-emissions power and electricity grids, and more sustainable fuels. This makes 2019 the definitive peak for global CO2 emissions. By 2030, emissions in the SDS are nearly 10 Gt lower than in the STEPS.

vox_mundi

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #5014 on: October 15, 2020, 01:25:37 AM »
Room-Temperature Superconductivity Achieved for the First Time
https://www.quantamagazine.org/physicists-discover-first-room-temperature-superconductor-20201014/
https://phys.org/news/2020-10-room-temperature-superconducting-material.html

Compressing simple molecular solids with hydrogen at extremely high pressures, University of Rochester engineers and physicists have, for the first time, created material that is superconducting at room temperature.



A team of physicists in New York has discovered a material that conducts electricity with perfect efficiency at room temperature — a long-sought scientific milestone. The hydrogen, carbon and sulfur compound operates as a superconductor at up to 59 degrees Fahrenheit, the team reported today in Nature. That’s more than 50 degrees hotter than the previous high-temperature superconductivity record set last year.

In setting the new record, Dias and his research team combined hydrogen with carbon and sulfur to photochemically synthesize simple organic-derived carbonaceous sulfur hydride in a diamond anvil cell, a research device used to examine miniscule amounts of materials under extraordinarily high pressure.

The carbonaceous sulfur hydride exhibited superconductivity at about 58 degrees Fahrenheit and a pressure of about 39 million psi. This is the first time that superconducting material has been observed at room temperatures.

Room-temperature superconductivity in a carbonaceous sulfur hydride , Nature (2020)
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-020-2801-z
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Tom_Mazanec

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #5015 on: October 15, 2020, 01:52:11 AM »
But at those pressures is RTSC practical?
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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #5016 on: October 15, 2020, 11:43:02 AM »
But at those pressures is RTSC practical?
No its not but it wasn't that long ago (20-30 years ago?) that the only superconducters were a few degrees above 0 kelvin. If they could make a superconductor at reasonable pressures and 0C that would be something.

nanning

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #5017 on: October 15, 2020, 12:56:07 PM »
The keyword here is "If".
I predict that room temperature, atmospheric pressure superconductivity will never be possible.
Why would it be something important? Our living planet is on its last legs. All focus should go there.
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Tom_Mazanec

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #5018 on: October 15, 2020, 01:04:45 PM »
APRTSC would start a technological revolution. Whether on balance it would help or hurt the environment I don't know. It may or may not be possible.
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Ken Feldman

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #5019 on: October 15, 2020, 05:58:41 PM »
What do superconductors have to do with renewable energy?  Aren't they needed to make the plasma containment for fusion reactors?  The discussion about superconductors would be better in the nuclear thread.

SteveMDFP

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #5020 on: October 15, 2020, 07:11:43 PM »
What do superconductors have to do with renewable energy?  Aren't they needed to make the plasma containment for fusion reactors?  The discussion about superconductors would be better in the nuclear thread.

Superconducting very long distance transmission lines would itself solve the intermittency problem.

Mind you, I'm not holding my breath on that....

Ken Feldman

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #5021 on: October 15, 2020, 09:40:19 PM »
Plain old grid interconnects with "smart" controllers will solve the intermittency problem.  See what the UK does on its many windless days that NeilT constantly brings up.

kassy

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #5022 on: October 16, 2020, 02:15:18 PM »
I guess we´ll have to wait for some report which includes claims for renewable energy related to superconductivity then. As a topic by itself it can be discussed somewhere else.
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NeilT

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #5023 on: October 16, 2020, 03:42:23 PM »
Plain old grid interconnects with "smart" controllers will solve the intermittency problem.  See what the UK does on its many windless days that NeilT constantly brings up.

Sorry but it is a valid point.

But Superconducting even at 0C would be a fantastic help to do HVDC interconnects.  If the price were low enough then it would solve a huge area in the problem of baseload power.

To answer the question about what use it is, a solar farm circling the globe in the tropics with very high power output, transmitted globally on near superconducting interconnects, could solve the baseload power problem permanently.

Wires that don't superconduct generate heat.  That heat reduces the delivered power, the less power delivered, the more supply you need but the more power you get, the hotter it gets.  Until it bursts into flames.

It won't be viable today or 5 years from now.  But if we could work towards that and deliver it 20 years from now, we could, just possibly, give the following generations some hope.

This is good research.
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crandles

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #5024 on: October 16, 2020, 06:51:59 PM »
But at those pressures is RTSC practical?
No its not but it wasn't that long ago (20-30 years ago?) that the only superconducters were a few degrees above 0 kelvin. If they could make a superconductor at reasonable pressures and 0C that would be something.

FWIW
Prior to 1986 highest critical temperature was around 23K
~1987 Yttrium barium copper oxide discovered with critical temperature of 93K (importantly warmer than liquid nitrogen 77K)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yttrium_barium_copper_oxide

Requirement for liquid nitrogen cooling limits economic usage considerably. Even so there are various uses.

gerontocrat

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #5025 on: October 16, 2020, 07:49:54 PM »
meanwhile - the here and now from https://www.iea.org/reports/monthly-electricity-statistics

July 2020 electricity production. All OECD, China India and USA.

Fossil fuels still rule, OK.

Coal comes back for a third month - dominates India & China.
Natural Gas continues its relentless rise in the OECD especially the USA.

Solar + wind up a bit.

As the IEA World Energy 2020 Report says ...
"As things stand, the world is not set for a decisive downward turn in emissions…"

There is a Guardian Article which suggests Australia should worry about coal exports to China - but looks more like medium to long-term and China expanding its domestic coal production.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/oct/15/china-losing-interest-in-australian-coal-isnt-about-diplomacy-its-simply-market-dynamics

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #5026 on: October 16, 2020, 11:07:47 PM »
China's UHVDC lines have 1.5% losses per 1000km.  Can't really see superconductors really making a lot of difference.   

We already have the tools to connect the dots.

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #5027 on: October 17, 2020, 12:33:22 PM »
China's UHVDC lines have 1.5% losses per 1000km.  Can't really see superconductors really making a lot of difference.   

We already have the tools to connect the dots.
And in the UK.  interconnectors to the continent & Eire are expanding.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-54539671
Cross-channel electricity link goes live in tests

Quote
An under-sea electricity link between England and France has been powered up for the first time before undergoing full tests in November.

The IFA2 interconnector between Hampshire and Normandy will deliver 1.2% of Britain's electricity needs, National Grid said. At first the two-way cable will typically import cheaper electricity from France, the firm added.

It will be the fourth of 12 planned interconnectors to the continent.

The 1GW-capacity link is the result of a £700m shared investment with French power firm RTE.

Jon Butterworth, chief executive of National Grid Ventures, said the interconnector would be a reliable and secure source of "green" energy.

He said it would give access to nuclear and renewable electricity in France, helping to deliver the UK's "net zero" carbon emissions target.

Mr Butterworth said: "The launch of the IFA2 interconnector is an important step in accelerating our progress to a cleaner, greener future."

The link has the potential to reduce wholesale electricity prices in Great Britain by 2%, National Grid said.

The firm said it could not give a date for start of full operations.

The 149-mile (240km) exchange runs from Tourbe, Normandy, to a converter station at Solent Airport and a national grid connection at Chilling, Hampshire.

Fareham Borough Council received more than 1,000 objections, citing concerns including purported health risks from electromagnetic fields and noise from the converter station.

The UK currently has five active interconnectors, including continental links to Belgium, France and the Netherlands.

Another 10 are planned, potentially bringing capacity to almost 18GW by 2023, according to Ofgem - the government regulator for gas and electricity.

https://www.nationalgrid.com/sites/default/files/documents/13784-High%20Voltage%20Direct%20Current%20Electricity%20%E2%80%93%20technical%20information.pdf
Quote
Introduction
High voltage direct current (HVDC) technology is one of the technical options National Grid can consider for the future development of the transmission system in Great Britain.

Although HVDC has some disadvantages, as its integration within an AC system has to be carefully considered and its cost can be higher than the equivalent AC solution, the advantages of HVDC transmission are principally the following:
-  the ability to interconnect networks that are asynchronous or that operate at
different frequencies
- the ability to transmit power over long distances without technical limitations
- the ability to control power flows on the HVDC connection for all system backgrounds
- the ability to transmit power in either direction as desired by the network operator
-  in certain cases the ability to improve AC system stability.
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NeilT

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #5028 on: October 17, 2020, 12:42:55 PM »
Ah, the French link.

You know that when France is high utilisation, in winter, when UK renewables are low, France resell Dutch and Belgian Coal surplus over the link??

Even then, it needs to be 30GW, not 11 in order to decommission our Nuclear and Gas.

We will never do it because energy is political power and we have to trust the supplier of that power.

As Thursday just proved, when the chips are down, everyone looks to their own interest.
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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #5029 on: October 17, 2020, 01:24:03 PM »
So you don't see importing geothermal from Iceland or using excess wind to increase Norwegian pumped hydro storage to buy back later as good things?

Most of the French interconnectors are expected in future to soak up UK excess wind and cover for France's aging nuclear. It works both ways.

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #5030 on: October 17, 2020, 02:23:19 PM »
Ref #5028

“when UK renewables are low”
For clarity, UK renewable production is highest in the winter (though not all the time) and the interconnectors take electricity both ways (Though a net import to the UK) .

“We will never do it because energy is political power and we have to trust the supplier of that power.”
We rely on each other, more so when the coal plants are decommissioned. If the HVDC link to Russia (11 time zones) gets built, we will have to keep friends with that nice Mr Putin (and he with us).

“As Thursday just proved”
If you mean the BJ’s “talks over” comment, I’,m pretty sure he won’t walk away. You can, from one car dealer to the next, but there is only one EU and not much else for thousands of miles.

“Even then, it needs to be 30GW, not 11”
Total capacity is 17.9 GW, approx. half of winter demand when all built. The Shetland, Orkney and Western Isles (total 1.32 GW) links are not shown, they make the UK only extent nearly a weather system wide
"If I have seen further than others, it is by standing upon the shoulders of giants." Isaac Newton

Iain

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #5031 on: October 17, 2020, 02:25:07 PM »
"If I have seen further than others, it is by standing upon the shoulders of giants." Isaac Newton

Iain

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #5032 on: October 17, 2020, 02:48:22 PM »
The Northconnect interconnector (Norway to Boddam power station near Peterhead) is on hold, not sure why.

https://northconnect.co.uk/articles/northconnect-takes-note-of-the-oeds-decision
"If I have seen further than others, it is by standing upon the shoulders of giants." Isaac Newton

Yuha

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #5033 on: October 17, 2020, 06:25:31 PM »
China's UHVDC lines have 1.5% losses per 1000km.  Can't really see superconductors really making a lot of difference.   

We already have the tools to connect the dots.

But superconducting cables can achieve high efficiency at a much lower voltage which saves in the size and cost of equipment.

There are already some test cases. For example:

Quote
The Ampacity project has been serving Essen’s power grid since March of 2014 and features the world’s longest superconductor cable at 1 kilometre in length. The efficient and space-saving technology transports five times more electricity than conventional cables.

The medium voltage cable, at 10 kV, replaces the previous high voltage 110 kV cable yet transmits the same energy.

  “The consequence of that for a large city centre like Essen is simple” Steinbach says. “For a 110 kV cable to transport energy you have to have a substation more or less the size of a garage. If you replace HV with medium voltage cable you can replace a big 110 kV substation with medium voltage switchgear.”
https://www.powerengineeringint.com/editors-picks/nexans-success-in-essen-may-see-roll-out-in-other-cities/


NeilT

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #5034 on: October 17, 2020, 08:50:17 PM »


https://gridwatch.co.uk/Renewables

https://gridwatch.co.uk/Int

This is with coal, gas and Nuclear.  Take them away and the UK would only be exporting with an installed base over 100GW of renewables.
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BeeKnees

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #5035 on: October 17, 2020, 09:30:36 PM »
But superconducting cables can achieve high efficiency at a much lower voltage which saves in the size and cost of equipment.

Really interesting article.  Hopefully they can scale it up. 

BeeKnees

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #5036 on: October 17, 2020, 09:56:38 PM »

This is with coal, gas and Nuclear.  Take them away and the UK would only be exporting with an installed base over 100GW of renewables.

Neil, if you do a model run with 80GW Wind and 20GW solar over 2019 using 1/2 hour demand figures.

https://energynumbers.info/balancing/?cy=gb

At that level with historic capacity factors we would be meeting 66% in real time and exporting 10% of the renewable power generated.

NeilT

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #5037 on: October 18, 2020, 01:48:59 AM »
Without our other generation, it needs to be hitting 100% before we export.

Hence my over 100GW statement.

It is not impossible, but the investment costs would be bigger than anything currently seen as acceptable.

Maybe in time.
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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #5038 on: October 18, 2020, 03:08:26 AM »
Without our other generation, it needs to be hitting 100% before we export.

Hence my over 100GW statement.

It is not impossible, but the investment costs would be bigger than anything currently seen as acceptable.

Maybe in time.
So what are you really saying is don't build any more renewables until we have a solution for the last few percentages? Over and over I see this argument about how to solve the last few percentages of fossil fuels when worldwide less than 10% of power produced is renewable.

Investments are ramping up substantially because LCOE on renewable energy is cheaper. Investments in renewable energy capacity is money saved not money spent. Competition is heating up to disrupt fossil fuels and replace them with renewable energy. Even fossil fuel companies are investing in renewable energy. Recently an LNG plant decided to power the plant with solar because it is cheaper than gas. The only people interested in new nuclear are the industry, military's and the politicians they bribe.

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #5039 on: October 18, 2020, 10:02:31 AM »
The best renewable energy type is to use less energy.
Imagine if everybody did that in the rich countries. But I guess that you want even MORE  ::).
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BeeKnees

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #5040 on: October 18, 2020, 11:27:03 AM »
Without our other generation, it needs to be hitting 100% before we export.

If you qualified it with 100% at a given time then I would agree with you.  Tbh I just don't see your argument for not exporting when supply exceeds demand and we have insufficient storage to utilise it later.  That exported electricity will reduce fossil fuel use elsewhere and generate income instead of curtailing wind power.

Using that same model I mentioned before you can see how close we get to 100% just by adding a very moderate amount of storage (5GW 20GWh) to the planned interconnects and hydro with 100-150GW renewables will be sufficient to meet 97% of demand . 

Your argument appears to be that we need nuclear to meet this 3% when 97% of the time the nuclear plant would be running when there is no demand for its electricity.  To me there are better options for meeting that 3% through hydrogen, biogas, other longer term storage solutions and a wider sharing of generation.


NeilT

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #5041 on: October 18, 2020, 11:59:39 AM »

Tbh I just don't see your argument for not exporting when supply exceeds demand and we have insufficient storage to utilise it later. 

You are right, I am being overly negative.

My fears are that some will use average figures to make energy choices to destroy energy self sufficiency and leave the UK reliant on others we struggle to trust.

The last thing I want to see is the UK in a similar situation to the Ukraine, energy wise, just because people want an ideological solution.

That way leads to new coal powered power stations and reopening of open cast UK coal mines.

The UK has, for UK energy needs, truly huge supplies of coal.  Turning our back on them is a very large step on the road to CO2 reductions.

Would that German did the same!
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morganism

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #5042 on: October 18, 2020, 09:23:46 PM »
The world’s best solar power schemes now offer the “cheapest…electricity in history” with the technology cheaper than coal and gas in most major countries."

https://www.carbonbrief.org/solar-is-now-cheapest-electricity-in-history-confirms-iea

https://webstore.iea.org/world-energy-outlook-2020

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #5043 on: October 19, 2020, 12:48:11 AM »
The best renewable energy type is to use less energy.
Imagine if everybody did that in the rich countries. But I guess that you want even MORE  ::).
This thread is for discussing developments in renewable energy. You want to discuss reducing consumption. A new thread was made for you to discuss this. If no one else wants to discuss reducing consumption with you don't hijack other threads. Reducing consumption is better for the environment. No argument from me. Reducing consumption is not the topic of this thread! Please continue to post about reducing consumption in an appropriate thread. I read many posts from you and others about reducing consumption. I don't have anything to add to that conversation so I don't post there. If you want to talk about renewable energy than post here.

sidd

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #5044 on: October 19, 2020, 06:12:23 AM »
Mmmm. This is a fine point. Reducing energy consumption lowers future renewable energy build required.

sidd

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #5045 on: October 19, 2020, 02:16:10 PM »
I think we can conclude that we all agree on that but broader discussions reducing energy consumption should be held in the other thread.
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NeilT

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #5046 on: October 19, 2020, 03:20:44 PM »
Of more relevant and topical, interest are the veiled threats on Friday to cut the UK out of the  €2.5 billion EU energy market; unless the UK does as it is told.

Apparently the EU does not want to buy our renewable energy or sell us theirs.  Perhaps the remaining HVDC links will not be built between France and the UK?

This is how politics impacts renewable energy.

If you were standing on the outside, looking in, considering energy links with the EU to balance supplies and go totally renewable; what would you be thinking?
Being right too soon is socially unacceptable.

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gerontocrat

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #5047 on: October 19, 2020, 05:24:39 PM »
Of more relevant and topical, interest are the veiled threats on Friday to cut the UK out of the  €2.5 billion EU energy market; unless the UK does as it is told.

Apparently the EU does not want to buy our renewable energy or sell us theirs.  Perhaps the remaining HVDC links will not be built between France and the UK?

This is how politics impacts renewable energy.

If you were standing on the outside, looking in, considering energy links with the EU to balance supplies and go totally renewable; what would you be thinking?
I am thinking that at the height of the Cold War, there were pipelines transmitting natural gas from The Soviet Union & The Warsw Pact into Western Europe**

And things are getting so bad that allies will not transmit power between each other ?
(Allies - NATO, OSCE etc etc etc etc)

Quelle un load of merde.

____________________________________________________________
** The Living Daylights - 1987
James Bond is assigned to aid the defection of a KGB officer, General Georgi Koskov, covering his escape from a concert hall in Bratislava, Czechoslovakia during intermission. During the mission, Bond notices that the KGB sniper assigned to prevent Koskov's escape is the attractive blonde female cellist from the orchestra, and deduces that she is not a professional assassin. Disobeying his orders to kill the sniper, he instead shoots the rifle from her hands, then uses the Trans-Siberian Pipeline to smuggle Koskov across the border into Austria and then on to Britain.

Trans-Siberian Pipeline - History

The pipeline project was proposed in 1978 as an export pipeline from Yamburg gas field, but was later changed to the pipeline from Urengoy field, which was already in use. In July 1981, a consortium of German banks, led by Deutsche Bank, and the AKA Ausfuhrkredit GmbH agreed to provide 3.4 billion Deutsche Mark in credits for the compressor stations. Later finance agreements were negotiated with a group of French banks and the Japan Export-Import Bank (JEXIM). In 1981-1982, contracts were signed with compressors and pipes suppliers Creusot-Loire, John Brown Engineering, Nuovo Pignone, AEG-Telefunken, Mannesmann, Dresser Industries, and Japan Steel Works. Pipe-layers were bought from Caterpillar Inc. and Komatsu.[1]

The pipeline was constructed in 1982-1984. It complemented the transcontinental gas transportation system Western Siberia-Western Europe which existed since 1973. The official inauguration ceremony took place in France.[2]
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blu_ice

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #5048 on: October 19, 2020, 06:59:28 PM »
Isn’t there a brexit thread somewhere?

NeilT

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #5049 on: October 19, 2020, 07:42:52 PM »
Probably but this is directly relevant to energy security, interconnects, trust in your energy supplier and the need for all of that in renewables.

Political games and tensions make all of the above uncertain and slows take-up.

The broader ramifications of Brexit are not really worth discussing on a climate forum, apart from how much losing the UK emissions cuts deep sixes the EU plans to comply with Paris.

I discuss those on a more general forum.
Being right too soon is socially unacceptable.

Robert A. Heinlein