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TerryM

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #3750 on: July 19, 2019, 09:08:58 PM »
Ken


What you describe sounds much more like a generator - used to produce electrical energy, than a battery - used to store electrical energy.
Isn't this more closely related to a piezo device that can be used to generate electricity from temperature differences than a battery that might accept such a charge?


Terry

Ken Feldman

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #3751 on: July 19, 2019, 11:44:51 PM »
In reading the abstract that was published in the Journal of Materials Chemistry, the scientists describe it as a battery.

https://pubs.rsc.org/en/content/articlelanding/2019/TA/C9TA04060A#!divAbstract

Quote
A sensitized thermal cell recovered using heat

S. Matsushita,*a   T. Araki,a   B. Mei,b   S. Sugawara,a   Y. Inagawa,a   J. Nishiyama,b   T. Isobea  and   A. Nakajimaa   

Abstract

You can find thermal energy everywhere in the world, including geothermal energy. Here we report an amazing battery that could supply power semi-permanently by simply burying the cell in a heat source and turning the switch on and off. We examined the discharge termination process of a sensitized thermal cell (STC), a new thermal energy conversion system for generating electrical power from heat previously reported by the authors. To observe this termination process, we constructed a new STC system using a narrow-bandgap semiconductor, germanium (Ge), and surprisingly found that the battery characteristics were restored after discharging by placing or burying the battery in a heat source. This discovery should bring us closer to solving global energy problems.


Ken Feldman

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #3752 on: July 20, 2019, 12:09:40 AM »
Here's an example of how new State mandates and the changing market forces, combined with pressure from consumers, has convinced a power company to employee renewables and close down a coal power plant earlier.

https://coloradosun.com/2019/07/19/tri-state-yields-customer-pressure/

Quote
Tri-State, under pressure from its member co-ops to change or fall behind, is shifting to renewable energy

Giant power provider on the verge of deal with departing utility says it will shutter coal-fired plant in Nucla two years early as it retools carbon-emissions goals.

Published on Jul 19, 2019

n a sign of how quickly the electricity industry is changing, Tri-State Generation and Transmission Association is taking a quick paced series of steps to deal with market pressure and complaints from some of its member cooperatives.

Westminster-based Tri-State — power provider to 43 rural electric cooperatives in four states, including 18 in Colorado — has been criticized for its heavy reliance on coal-fired generation, its high rates and its long-term contracts that limit co-ops on local renewable energy projects.

Faced with renewable energy generation that undercuts the cost of power from coal-fired plants and new laws in Colorado and New Mexico setting high clean energy goals, Tri-State is being pushed by political and market forces to change or fall behind.

Quote
The Tri-State contracts limit co-ops from generating more than 5% of their own electricity and that has put a damper on local renewable energy projects, leading some cooperatives, such as United Power, in Brighton, to push for ways to accommodate more local initiatives.

Meanwhile, studies by environmental groups contended there are big savings in Tri-State shutting its coal plants. A study by the Rocky Mountain Institute, an energy consulting group, calculated Tri-State could save consumers $600 million or more by 2030 if it shut down its coal-fired units and replaced them with low cost wind and solar generation.

Tri-State disputed the study saying it is based on incomplete numbers. The association gets nearly 50% of its electricity from coal-fired power plants.

In the spring, Colorado and New Mexico passed laws giving their utility commissions more oversight of Tri-State and set targets for curbing carbon emissions. New Mexico passed a 100% clean energy law and Colorado adopted a clean energy plan aimed reaching net zero-carbon emissions by 2050.

TerryM

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #3753 on: July 20, 2019, 04:44:45 AM »
In reading the abstract that was published in the Journal of Materials Chemistry, the scientists describe it as a battery.

https://pubs.rsc.org/en/content/articlelanding/2019/TA/C9TA04060A#!divAbstract

Quote
A sensitized thermal cell recovered using heat

S. Matsushita,*a   T. Araki,a   B. Mei,b   S. Sugawara,a   Y. Inagawa,a   J. Nishiyama,b   T. Isobea  and   A. Nakajimaa   

Abstract

You can find thermal energy everywhere in the world, including geothermal energy. Here we report an amazing battery that could supply power semi-permanently by simply burying the cell in a heat source and turning the switch on and off. We examined the discharge termination process of a sensitized thermal cell (STC), a new thermal energy conversion system for generating electrical power from heat previously reported by the authors. To observe this termination process, we constructed a new STC system using a narrow-bandgap semiconductor, germanium (Ge), and surprisingly found that the battery characteristics were restored after discharging by placing or burying the battery in a heat source. This discovery should bring us closer to solving global energy problems.


I'm amazed!


When the thermocouple in a gas appliance generates enough electricity to hold the gas valve open should I now refer to the thermocouple as a battery?
Should a thermopile, pyrometer or Piezo generator also share this dubious honor?


I've never heard the term "battery" used this way, though in one sense a thermopile could be considered a battery of thermocouples just as an array of cannons might be referred to as a battery of cannons, or a collection of 6 electrical cells as a battery for an auto.


Terry

Richard Rathbone

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #3754 on: July 20, 2019, 01:45:44 PM »
Its a battery because its being recharged and run down, rather than continuously producing power.

Its a complicated way of getting very small amounts of stored power, but it is stored power.

"This discovery should bring us closer to solving global energy problems." is the bit in the abstract thats pure hype. Its not just a thermopile, but its not going to beat them, and thermopiles aren't exactly world saving themselves.

Grubbegrabben

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #3755 on: July 20, 2019, 11:41:53 PM »
This might belong in the "Stupid questions" thread but here we go: Solar panel (PV) installations are currently subsidized in my country so people are installing quite a lot of them.

My question: Is it possible to install too much solar power in an area? Is it by design possible to deliver power upstream should the production in an area be larger than the consumption? The first obstacle should be the local high-to-low power transformer station - or will the existing transformer stations gladly just work in reverse without modification?

I know a bit about electrical stuff but have no clue about the inner workings of a power grid.

TerryM

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #3756 on: July 21, 2019, 03:58:45 AM »
Its a battery because its being recharged and run down, rather than continuously producing power.

Its a complicated way of getting very small amounts of stored power, but it is stored power.

"This discovery should bring us closer to solving global energy problems." is the bit in the abstract thats pure hype. Its not just a thermopile, but its not going to beat them, and thermopiles aren't exactly world saving themselves.
Richard
Is this then the equivalent of an intermittently heated or cooled piezo device or thermocouple that could theoretically feed into a "Joule Thief", and eventually charge a conventional cell?
Does the amperage or voltage vary with the temperature delta so that it could be used as a thermometer, or to drive a throttle capable of adjusting the delta temperature of an attached heater or cooler?


I still can't see the "battery" designation as I visualize this as generating a very small amount of electricity from a thermal delta, then after a short period overloading itself so that it needs to be briefly open circuited before it can continue.


I've no doubt that you (and the gents that invented it:>) are correct in their designation, but confess that I don't understand the nomenclature.


I am totally in agreement that this is no game changer. An interesting exercise possibly, but I see no advantage over mass produced sub-assemblies that have been available for many decades. ???


Terry
Terry

Richard Rathbone

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #3757 on: July 21, 2019, 11:52:48 AM »
Its exploiting the change in electrical potential with temperature just as thermocouples and thermopiles do, but the membrane is allowing it to charge when hot and discharge when cold rather than needing to be have connected hot and cold junctions.

oren

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #3758 on: July 21, 2019, 12:41:06 PM »
This might belong in the "Stupid questions" thread but here we go: Solar panel (PV) installations are currently subsidized in my country so people are installing quite a lot of them.

My question: Is it possible to install too much solar power in an area? Is it by design possible to deliver power upstream should the production in an area be larger than the consumption? The first obstacle should be the local high-to-low power transformer station - or will the existing transformer stations gladly just work in reverse without modification?

I know a bit about electrical stuff but have no clue about the inner workings of a power grid.
I happened to participate in some analytics meeting trying to help the local electricity authority encourage more PV by the use of grid batteries. When I find the time I will write more about it, but I did learn two things relevant to your question: a substation with too much PV installed in its area can become unstable. Here they limit to 60% PV capacity relative to substation capacity, unless you're a PV farm and build your own substation.
In addition, the main limitation here is HVDC transmission, from the region most optimal for PV (cheap land, southern latitude, clear weather) to the region where most consumption takes place.
So yes, there can be too much PV unless the transmission and distribution infrastructure is upgraded, which takes time (here it's 10-20 years for a new transmission line).

El Cid

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #3759 on: July 21, 2019, 01:22:07 PM »
A nice summary of levellized costs electricity from various sources (2018 Nov):

https://www.lazard.com/media/450784/lazards-levelized-cost-of-energy-version-120-vfinal.pdf

Utility scale solar is 40-50 usd (but rooftop residential is 160-260!) / MWh, wind is 30-60 , solar thermal with storage: 100-180 usd, geothermal 70-110, coal: 60-140, gas combined cycle: 40-75

Worth flipping thru the charts

Basically non-carbon based energy has become competitive even without subsidies at many places around the globe

Tom_Mazanec

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #3760 on: July 22, 2019, 05:28:46 PM »
SHARKS (CROSSED OUT) MONGEESE (SIC) WITH FRICKIN LASER BEAMS ATTACHED TO THEIR HEADS

TerryM

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #3761 on: July 22, 2019, 07:08:19 PM »
New York to be first 100% renewable state:
https://www.csmonitor.com/Environment/2019/0719/New-York-climate-plan-among-nation-s-most-ambitious
"Greater mass transit & an accelerated shift to electric vehicles" is all they write about the transit sector - other than parking meters where personal EVs can be charged.


If they were serious they'd mandate free electric buses, cheap electric trolleys and heavily subsidized electrical light rail.
I noted that they put the deadline far enough ahead that all of the lawmakers will be dead or retired before the rubber hits the road.


Purchase more clean hydro from Quebec starting in 2020.
E-Buses are available now, and they give the most bang for the buck. Follow the buses with E-garbage trucks and intercity E-Light Rail.

30 years is too much time to kick the can further down the road.
Less than impressed.
Terry


Ken Feldman

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #3762 on: July 22, 2019, 07:34:51 PM »
NextEra Energy is predicting that the US will get 50% of its electricity from renewables in 2030.

https://cleantechnica.com/2019/07/22/nextera-energy-predicts-50-renewable-energy-in-us-by-2030/

Quote
In May, the company presented a slide based on data supplied by IHS Markit for calendar year 2017. It showed the United States would get 25% of its electricity from renewable energy resources by 2030. That slide was deleted from the June presentation and replaced with one based on data supplied by the National Renewable Energy Laboratory for calendar year 2018. The new slide projects the country will reach 50% renewables by 2030. The difference is startling and proof of how quickly things are changing in the utility industry.

NextEra Energy is no featherweight. It has the largest market capitalization of any utility holding company. It is the parent company of Florida Power & Light, Gulf Power, and NextEra Energy Resouces, among other entities. It employs 14,000 people, generates 45,900 megawatts of electricity annually, and has yearly revenue of $17 billion. If it says renewables will account for half of all electricity a decade from now, other companies should sit up and take notice. Government leaders, too.

NextEra Energy produces more electricity from the wind and sun than any other company on the planet, according to NASDAQ.com. Its NextEra Energy Resources subsidiary operates 17 gigawatts of wind and solar power assets across the country today. It owns more installed wind power capacity than all but seven countries and is the fifth-largest capital investor in the United States. It plans to build an additional 29 gigawatts of wind and solar power assets in the coming years. This is not a company that makes predictions lightly.

How can it make such bold predictions, ones that are significantly more aggressive than those being made by other industry sources? Simple. It feels those other sources are wildly pessimistic in their estimates. See chart below.



That’s a huge disparity between what NextEra Energy thinks will happen and what other supposedly informed sources think will happen. A lot of CleanTechnica readers have commented over the years that forecasts from the Energy Information Administration are notoriously inaccurate. The next chart proves it.




rboyd

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #3763 on: July 22, 2019, 10:31:55 PM »
Ireland Importing Biomass From Australia to Drive "Renewable" Electricity Production

Quote
Bord na Móna is currently assisting ESB with their plans to conduct a series of biomass combustion trials at Lough Ree and West Offaly power stations during 2019 in preparation for potential (subject to planning) co-fuelling of biomass with peat when the peat PSO ends in December 2019" Pat's statement revealed, "a number of potential indigenous and overseas sources of biomass have been identified to meet current and potential future demands. One shipment of approximately 37,000 tonnes of sustainably sourced biomass is being shipped from Australia

The insanity of EU carbon accounting:

Quote
An Taisce claim only the EU carbon accounting rules see it as the best eco alternative.

"Clearly in this case there's the cost of transporting it all over the world," Lumley says, "and we still don't know where it was cut down from in the first place."

Nobody has even mentioned the fleet of lorries that will meet the ship at Foynes Port and bring the product on up and down the byroads of Offaly and Longford.

https://www.rte.ie/news/analysis-and-comment/2019/0713/1061917-bord-na-mona/

DrTskoul

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #3764 on: July 22, 2019, 11:06:30 PM »
Yay

morganism

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #3765 on: July 23, 2019, 01:23:43 AM »
Magnet doubles hydrogen yield from water splitting

"They coated a nickel foam anode with magnetic nickel zinc ferrite and used it in an electrolyzer running at about 1.6 V. When they placed a commercial neodymium magnet next to the anode, it roughly doubled the current density at the anode without requiring any additional voltage. This doubled the rate of oxygen production and caused an equivalent increase in hydrogen output."

https://cen.acs.org/physical-chemistry/Magnet-doubles-hydrogen-yield-water/97/web/2019/06

SteveMDFP

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #3766 on: July 23, 2019, 02:23:53 AM »
Magnet doubles hydrogen yield from water splitting

"They coated a nickel foam anode with magnetic nickel zinc ferrite and used it in an electrolyzer running at about 1.6 V. When they placed a commercial neodymium magnet next to the anode, it roughly doubled the current density at the anode without requiring any additional voltage. This doubled the rate of oxygen production and caused an equivalent increase in hydrogen output."

https://cen.acs.org/physical-chemistry/Magnet-doubles-hydrogen-yield-water/97/web/2019/06

This experimental result might be of great importance.  If this pans out to greatly increase electrolytic efficiency, it promotes the possibility of storing excess solar/wind output as hydrogen fuel for fuel cells.  Then moderate overbuilding of solar+wind could completely eliminate fossil fuels for electrical generation.

TerryM

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #3767 on: July 23, 2019, 12:31:07 PM »
Ireland Importing Biomass From Australia to Drive "Renewable" Electricity Production

Quote
Bord na Móna is currently assisting ESB with their plans to conduct a series of biomass combustion trials at Lough Ree and West Offaly power stations during 2019 in preparation for potential (subject to planning) co-fuelling of biomass with peat when the peat PSO ends in December 2019" Pat's statement revealed, "a number of potential indigenous and overseas sources of biomass have been identified to meet current and potential future demands. One shipment of approximately 37,000 tonnes of sustainably sourced biomass is being shipped from Australia

https://www.rte.ie/news/analysis-and-comment/2019/0713/1061917-bord-na-mona/
Ireland again burns peat and wood to boil water - what a wonderful leap forward!
Terry

etienne

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #3768 on: July 23, 2019, 05:26:39 PM »
Shouldn't peat be discussed in a "fossil fuels" topic ? I didn't know it was renewable. Maybe according to the EU standards, you never know.

sesyf

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #3769 on: July 23, 2019, 08:02:44 PM »
Ages ago I read that peat renewal takes about 6000 years so from some viewpoint it’s renewable... hah.

Tom_Mazanec

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #3770 on: July 24, 2019, 06:04:28 PM »
SHARKS (CROSSED OUT) MONGEESE (SIC) WITH FRICKIN LASER BEAMS ATTACHED TO THEIR HEADS

morganism

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #3771 on: July 25, 2019, 09:50:45 AM »
carbon nanotubes boost efficiency by channeling heat to harvestable photons.

Naik said adding the emitters to standard solar cells could boost their efficiency from the current peak of about 22%. “By squeezing all the wasted thermal energy into a small spectral region, we can turn it into electricity very efficiently,” he said. “The theoretical prediction is that we can get 80% efficiency.”

https://news.rice.edu/2019/07/12/rice-device-channels-heat-into-light/?T=AU

there are others also working on this step, most with nano dots or wells.

Ken Feldman

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #3772 on: July 25, 2019, 05:51:58 PM »
In South Carolina, electricity bills are very high to pay off the failed VC Summer nuclear power plant abandoned several years into construction.  The state recently passed a bill promoting rooftop solar and people are using it to cut their energy bills.

https://www.wistv.com/2019/07/24/future-is-bright-solar-energy-south-carolina-after-energy-freedom-act/

Quote

Freed made the switch to solar energy a few months ago. He said he wanted to reduce his carbon footprint and slash his monthly power bill. Especially after the VC Summer debacle. According to officials, South Carolina has one of the highest power rates in the country.

Freed said his bill has reduced dramatically. “For at least two months now, I’ve had no electricity charges minus the facility fee you’re going to pay no matter what.”

Solar companies said they will see an increase in the number of customers, all thanks to the Energy Freedom Act that was signed into law earlier this year.

According to the Solar Energy Industries Association, companies have installed 18,000 solar systems in South Carolina. Over the next year five years, they predict 22,000 new systems will be installed.

Solar companies said the new law removed caps on net metering and leasing, which means more customers will be incentivized to put solar on their roofs at their homes and businesses.

Ken Feldman

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #3773 on: July 26, 2019, 09:42:46 PM »
Oklahoma is going with a wind/solar/battery hybrid plant instead of natural gas peakers.

https://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/nextera-inks-even-bigger-windsolarstorage-deal-with-oklahoma-cooperative

Quote
The powerhouse renewables developer contracted this week with Oklahoma-based Western Farmers Electric Cooperative to build the largest proposed solar-plus-wind-plus-storage plant in the U.S. The Skeleton Creek facility, slated for completion by the close of 2023, will include:
• 250 megawatts of wind capacity (which will arrive first, before the end of 2019)
• 250 megawatts of solar power
• 200 megawatts/800 megawatt-hours of battery storage

Quote
By balancing the divergent production schedules of wind and solar resources, and using batteries for additional flexibility, hybrid plants like these deliver cheap renewables while mitigating the limitations of intermittency. In this case, the configuration offered an economic alternative to a natural gas peaker plant.

Quote
Western Farmers, a generation and transmission company that supplies power to 21 member co-ops, needed 400 megawatts of capacity by 2025 for its resource adequacy obligation, said Phillip Schaeffer, the principal resource planning engineer.

The traditional solution would be to build a natural-gas peaker to deliver that capacity to the Southwest Power Pool, but Schaeffer crunched the numbers around the solar/wind/storage combination and found something intriguing.

"It’s actually cheaper, economically, than a gas peaker plant of similar size, particularly with the tax credits that are available right now," Schaeffer told GTM. "Prices have fallen significantly over the last several years."

The wind component comes online this year to capture the full federal Production Tax Credit, and the solar and storage will be built together to qualify for the federal Investment Tax Credit, enhancing project economics.

The new arrangement also improves operationally on a gas peaker, Schaeffer noted. The battery will respond faster than a gas peaker can, and has the added benefit of absorbing excess capacity, useful on Oklahoma's most blustery days.

Ken Feldman

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #3774 on: July 26, 2019, 09:55:46 PM »
South Australia is on target for generating 100% of its electricity from renewables by 2030.

https://www.pv-magazine.com/2019/07/24/more-big-pv-down-under-as-south-australias-wind-and-solar-pipeline-swells-to-10-gw/

Quote
Following a string of development approvals for big solar+storage projects, South Australia’s large-scale wind and solar pipeline has grew to 10 GW. As it moves further than the previous target of 75% of its electricity generated by renewables by 2025, SA aims to hit “net” 100% renewables by 2030 and become a major energy exporter to other states.

Quote
SA has long been the nation’s renewable energy front runner. According to a recent report from Green Energy Markets, the state is on track to generating renewable energy equal to 73.5% of its consumption by 2030, up from 53% in 2018. To achieve the government’s target of 100% renewables it roughly needs another 1,300 MW of capacity, the report found.

With a number of development approvals for massive solar and battery projects in the recent period, SA is taking major strides towards its target. In a matter of weeks, the state government has waved through 500 MW of solar PV collocated with 250 MW/1000 MWh of battery storage around five kilometers north-east from Robertstown and the 280 MW Bungama Solar Farm coupled with a 140MW/560MWh battery storage facility proposed by EPS Energy, while another massive project – the Solar River Project, which comprises a 200 MW solar PV and 120 MWh of battery storage and potentially another 200 MW of solar and 150 MWh in the second stage, inked a power purchase agreement with Alinta Energy.

As reported by the daily, the latest project to receive the government’s tick of approval is a $200 million solar+storage facility at Murray Bridge. Proposed by developers RES, the 176 MW Pallamana Solar Farm coupled with 66 MW/140MWh lithium-ion battery will be located on 730 hectares of land around 60km south-east of Adelaide.

blumenkraft

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #3775 on: July 29, 2019, 08:59:22 PM »
Are Thermophotovoltaics The Future Of Solar?

“You are not entitled to your opinion. You are entitled to your informed opinion. No one is entitled to be ignorant.”

Tom_Mazanec

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SHARKS (CROSSED OUT) MONGEESE (SIC) WITH FRICKIN LASER BEAMS ATTACHED TO THEIR HEADS

mitch

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #3777 on: July 29, 2019, 10:30:07 PM »
I just saw a release where University of Arizona scientists find a win-win for growing leaf vegetables under solar panels installed at 3-m minimum height. 3-m height is to allow tractors/farm equipment ability to access fields:
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/07/190729123751.htm

The crops also help to cool the solar panels, improving their efficiency. 

vox_mundi

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #3778 on: July 30, 2019, 08:56:54 PM »
Researchers Develop Technology to Harness Energy from Mixing Freshwater and Seawater
https://techxplore.com/news/2019-07-technology-harness-energy-freshwater-seawater.html



A paper, recently published in American Chemical Society's ACS Omega, describes a salt gradient battery and suggests using it to make coastal wastewater treatment plants energy-independent.

The researchers tested a prototype of the battery, monitoring its energy production while flushing it with alternating hourly exchanges of wastewater effluent from the Palo Alto Regional Water Quality Control Plant and seawater collected nearby from Half Moon Bay. Over 180 cycles, battery materials maintained 97 percent effectiveness in capturing the salinity gradient energy.

The process first releases sodium and chloride ions from the battery electrodes into the solution, making the current flow from one electrode to the other. Then, a rapid exchange of wastewater effluent with seawater leads the electrode to reincorporate sodium and chloride ions and reverse the current flow. Energy is recovered during both the freshwater and seawater flushes, with no upfront energy investment and no need for charging. This means that the battery is constantly discharging and recharging without needing any input of energy.

The technology could work any place where fresh and saltwater intermix, but wastewater treatment plants offer a particularly valuable case study. Wastewater treatment is energy-intensive, accounting for about three percent of the total U.S. electrical load. The process—essential to community health—is also vulnerable to power grid shutdowns. Making wastewater treatment plants energy independent would not only cut electricity use and emissions but also make them immune to blackouts—a major advantage in places such as California, where recent wildfires have led to large-scale outages.

Every cubic meter of freshwater that mixes with seawater produces about .65 kilowatt-hours of energy—enough to power the average American house for about 30 minutes. Globally, the theoretically recoverable energy from coastal wastewater treatment plants is about 18 gigawatts—enough to power more than 1,700 homes for a year.


(A) Schematic of the MEB and the four-step energy recovery cycle; (B) energy recovery cycle of the charge-free MEB equipped with a PB cationic electrode and a PPy anionic electrode flushed with real seawater and wastewater effluent.

The power output was not optimized in this study and could be improved.

Open Access: Meng Ye et al, Charge-Free Mixing Entropy Battery Enabled by Low-Cost Electrode Materials, ACS Omega (2019)
“There are three classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see.” ― Leonardo da Vinci

Insensible before the wave so soon released by callous fate. Affected most, they understand the least, and understanding, when it comes, invariably arrives too late

interstitial

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #3779 on: July 30, 2019, 09:14:07 PM »
My gut instinct is that freshwater is more valuable as freshwater than the energy.

vox_mundi

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #3780 on: July 30, 2019, 10:27:54 PM »
They're using the wastewater effluent as their freshwater source. It's already been used as freshwater once. With the right plumbing it can be recycled.
“There are three classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see.” ― Leonardo da Vinci

Insensible before the wave so soon released by callous fate. Affected most, they understand the least, and understanding, when it comes, invariably arrives too late

DrTskoul

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #3781 on: July 30, 2019, 10:31:21 PM »
They're using the wastewater effluent as their freshwater source. It's already been used as freshwater once. With the right plumbing it can be recycled.

There is wastewater effluent and there is "wastewater" effluent. I will rather recycle wastewater to potable water than using it for energy. Freshwater is way more valuable!!!

vox_mundi

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #3782 on: July 30, 2019, 10:53:32 PM »
You can do both
“There are three classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see.” ― Leonardo da Vinci

Insensible before the wave so soon released by callous fate. Affected most, they understand the least, and understanding, when it comes, invariably arrives too late

Sigmetnow

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #3783 on: July 31, 2019, 03:35:37 AM »
Glendale, California gas plant to be re-powered with batteries + solar
Quote
For the second time in a month a fossil fuel-fired power plant in California is set to be replaced by a battery powered by a solar, including distributed solar. A small portion of the former plant will be retained.

While it has been no secret that the City of Glendale, California has been looking to re-power the aging gas-fired Grayson Power Plant with renewables, details the scope of that project, as well as the carveouts for each specific type of generation proved to be scarce.

That all has changed, however, as the city has released a plan to replace all but one of the plant’s existing generation facilities with a mix of battery storage, distributed solar and geothermal energy. Broken down by capacity, the plan calls for a 75 MW, 300 MWh battery energy storage system, up to 50 MW of distributed solar projects, energy efficiency and demand response programs. The plan also calls to keep the “peaker” portion of the former plant, which totals 93 MW of gas generation from up to five combustion turbines.

And if you’ve ever doubted that strong policy leads to real change, know that the City of Glendale has stated that the plant’s re-powering is being done pursuant to SB 100. That bill is the clean energy mandate passed last year, which has a looming benchmark of  60% renewable generation from utilities by 2030, on the way to its 100% clean energy by 2045 mandate.

This now marks the second California power plant this month that is set to be replaced, at least partially, through battery storage. The other is an infamous jet fuel-burning plant in Oakland, set to be replaced by a 20 MW, 80 MWh battery storage system.

In fact, this news from Glendale will likely mark the final bit chapter what has been the month of the battery. Battery deployment is likely the next domino to fall in the path of the energy revolution, and with those future capacity predictions from the Energy Information Administration and the wild increase in year-to-year battery investment, it’s falling fast. What’s especially exciting is that not only are we now seeing large-scale batteries as a solution for retiring power plants, but these batteries are now being fed by distributed energy. Every day, the dream of a grid built upon distributed generation becomes less of a hope and more of a reality, thanks to town like Glendale.
https://pv-magazine-usa.com/2019/07/29/california-gas-plant-to-be-re-powered-with-batteries-solar/
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

DrTskoul

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #3784 on: July 31, 2019, 07:45:21 AM »
Ultra-thin layers of rust generate electricity from flowing water

Quote
New research conducted by scientists at Caltech and Northwestern University shows that thin films of rust—iron oxide—can generate electricity when saltwater flows over them. These films represent an entirely new way of generating electricity and could be used to develop new forms of sustainable power production.

Energy conversion via metal nanolayers


SteveMDFP

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #3785 on: July 31, 2019, 04:28:35 PM »
Ultra-thin layers of rust generate electricity from flowing water

Quote
New research conducted by scientists at Caltech and Northwestern University shows that thin films of rust—iron oxide—can generate electricity when saltwater flows over them. These films represent an entirely new way of generating electricity and could be used to develop new forms of sustainable power production.

Energy conversion via metal nanolayers

Interesting.  Seems to need either a salinity gradient or oscillatory flow.  Possibly one could use ocean wave action to provide oscillatory flow.  Perhaps a tethered floating device could work around the tidal level changes of a shore-based device.

DrTskoul

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #3786 on: July 31, 2019, 04:37:18 PM »
Yeah they were thinking powering buoys that way.

Ken Feldman

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #3787 on: August 02, 2019, 09:51:14 PM »
The cost of solar farms keeps going down.

https://cleantechnica.com/2019/08/01/portugal-bags-lowest-cost-solar-bid/

Quote
The Portuguese energy secretariat has secured 1.15 GW of solar development at an average cost of €20.33 ($22.53 per megawatt-hour), representing an investment of about €800 million or $887 million.

One of the bids was made at €14.76/MWh ($16.44/MWh), which was declared a new world record for low solar bidding, according to Portugal’s Journal Económico. The secretariat had placed a €45/kWh ceiling on bidding.

Quote
Portugal produced a record level of power from clean energy sources in March 2018, the first time that renewables filled 100% of its production, the agency said. Much of the country’s renewable energy comes from hydro and wind sources, although solar generation is increasing rapidly now. The country expects to be a 100% renewable energy producer by 2040. In 2018, renewables provided about 52% of the country’s electricity demand, according to the Portuguese power utility Redes Energeticas Nacionais (REN).

“By 2021 we will be able to triple the solar capacity in Portugal, from the current 572 MW to close to 1600 MW,” said Jorge Seguro Sanches, Portugal’s Energy Secretary of State, in a 2018 CleanTechnica report.

Ken Feldman

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #3788 on: August 02, 2019, 09:58:08 PM »
Renewables in India continue to make up more of the generating capacity in the country.  The share of fossil fuel generation in India had decreased for 14 consecutive quarters.

https://cleantechnica.com/2019/08/02/share-of-fossil-fuel-in-indian-power-mix-drops-for-14th-consecutive-quarter/

Quote
CleanTechnica Research analyzed the trends for 17 quarters between Q2 2015 and Q2 2019 and found that the share of fossil fuel-based generation increased only in two quarters, i.e., Q3 2015 and Q4 2015 when it registered the highest share of 69.81%. Since Q4 2015 this share has declined at a compound annual rate of 0.78%. At the end of Q2 2015, the total installed capacity in the fossil fuel sector was 191 gigawatts which increased to 226 gigawatts at the end of Q2 2019.

The declining share is the direct result of the slow rate of new capacity addition in the fossil fuel sector compared to solar, wind, and the overall renewable energy sector over the last few years. Additionally, there have been several retirements as well as in the fossil fuel sector.

The share of wind energy in the installed capacity mix has grown at a compound annual rate of 1.29% since Q4 2015. Wind energy crossed the milestone of 10% share in the installed power mix in Q4 2018. At the end of Q2 2015, the operational wind energy capacity in India was 23.4 gigawatts which increased to 36.3 gigawatts at the end of Q2 2019.

The share of solar energy grew at a stellar compound annual rate of 13.8% between Q4 2015 and Q2 2019. The actual share of solar energy increased from just 1.53% at an installed capacity of 4.3 gigawatts at the end of Q4 2015 to 8.23% at an installed capacity of 29.5 gigawatts at the end of Q2 2019.

Ken Feldman

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #3789 on: August 02, 2019, 10:06:16 PM »
Adding battery storage to cheap renewables "disrupts" the energy markets (in a positive way, read on).

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffmcmahon/2019/08/02/why-energy-storage-is-proving-even-more-disruptive-than-cheap-renewables/#2b1dcc4a51e5

Quote
In the past, utilities had to "take what they could get" from slow, inflexible fossil-fuel plants, Ahlstrom said. Their primary concern was having enough energy to meet peak demand.

Now, utilities will have abundant cheap power from renewables. Paired with batteries, that power can be deployed by computer in microseconds to ensure reliability or fulfill other ancillary services.

Ken Feldman

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #3790 on: August 02, 2019, 10:12:11 PM »
One of the myths about solar and wind that the fossil fuel advocates keep pushing is that "they take up too much space".  They ignore the fact that the panels can be put on rooftops and land that isn't currently being used for a productive purpose, such as over a parking lot (shading the cars parked underneath as well) or an old landfill site.

http://www.courant.com/community/hartford/hc-news-hartford-landfill-solar-20190802-ckke3q45vjdahayw2ltrmhspfm-story.html

Quote

Hartford is seeking developers to expand the array of solar panels atop the city’s former landfill.

Initially installed in 2014, the state’s first landfill-based solar energy-generating facility has nearly 4,000 solar panels, covering 6 acres of the summit of the 96-acre, capped garbage pile along the Connecticut River.

Those panels produce about 1 megawatt of electricity, enough to power about 1,000 homes at full capacity.

The amount of solar panels to be added to the landfill is dependent on the proposals received but is expected to be about 1 megawatt as well, according to a recently issued request for proposals.

TerryM

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #3791 on: August 03, 2019, 01:23:04 AM »
Ken
With all of this wonderful news, when should we expect the Keeling curve to curve back on itself?


Renewables and batteries are wonderful additions to our power mix, but in most venues they aren't keeping up with additional demand.


Terry

swoozle

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #3792 on: August 03, 2019, 02:43:22 AM »
I'll go out on a limb and say a lot of us like to hear about progress even when it isn't the answer to every single problem. Lighten up, yeah?

Ken
With all of this wonderful news, when should we expect the Keeling curve to curve back on itself?


Renewables and batteries are wonderful additions to our power mix, but in most venues they aren't keeping up with additional demand.


Terry

Sigmetnow

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #3793 on: August 03, 2019, 09:05:01 PM »
Adding battery storage to cheap renewables "disrupts" the energy markets (in a positive way, read on).

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffmcmahon/2019/08/02/why-energy-storage-is-proving-even-more-disruptive-than-cheap-renewables/#2b1dcc4a51e5

Quote
In the past, utilities had to "take what they could get" from slow, inflexible fossil-fuel plants, Ahlstrom said. Their primary concern was having enough energy to meet peak demand.

Now, utilities will have abundant cheap power from renewables. Paired with batteries, that power can be deployed by computer in microseconds to ensure reliability or fulfill other ancillary services.

“We’ve always worried about having enough energy. In the future we’re going to have lots of energy and what we’re going to need is flexibility and balancing. The reliability of the grid is dependent on keeping the balance.”

“Less than a week after Ahlstrom made these remarks, NextEra announced a new 700 MW renewables+battery hybrid plant—described as America’s largest so far—in Anadarko, Oklahoma, the heart of oil country.”
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

rboyd

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #3794 on: August 04, 2019, 10:24:33 PM »
Ken
With all of this wonderful news, when should we expect the Keeling curve to curve back on itself?


Renewables and batteries are wonderful additions to our power mix, but in most venues they aren't keeping up with additional demand.


Terry

Thankyou for the reality check, I get tired of the "feel good" b.s. and shiny object celebrations while we continue on the wrong path. On a global basis renewables are not reducing fossil fuel use, let alone significantly reducing it as is needed.

TerryM

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #3795 on: August 04, 2019, 11:09:24 PM »
^^ Thanks


Something totally OT, and probably more fit for a PM, but do you have relatives who once lived in the village of Blair?
It's a terrible long shot, but It's been on my mind for a long time.
Terry

rboyd

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #3796 on: August 04, 2019, 11:12:31 PM »
No witches in my family. Instead Middlesbrough in the boring North East of England.

TerryM

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #3797 on: August 04, 2019, 11:24:20 PM »
No witches in my family. Instead Middlesbrough in the boring North East of England.


Sorry, my bad.
Blair Ontario was the bucolic village I grew up in, arguably the largest village enterprise was a chicken breeding farm owned by the Boyd family. They shipped all over the world.


Very bright people, and after following your posts I'd wondered if there was a connection.
Terry

rboyd

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #3798 on: August 04, 2019, 11:27:45 PM »
In Waterloo now, not far from Blair!

TerryM

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #3799 on: August 04, 2019, 11:42:05 PM »
In Waterloo now, not far from Blair!
If you drive by the old school - now a Buddhist Church, the Boyd properties were adjacent and just up the hill.


BTW
I'm in Cambridge, If my health improves a bit I'd love to chew the fat.


Terry