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Ken Feldman

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #4250 on: November 05, 2019, 08:52:42 PM »
And as we've discussed elsewhere on this forum, India is a notoriously difficult place to do business, as it seems the layers of bureaucracy can shift on a whim.  Even in India though, the fact that renewables are cheaper than fossil fuels can't be ignored.

https://insideclimatenews.org/news/20052019/india-solar-investment-coal-modi-election-renewable-energy-future

Quote
India Is Now Investing More in Solar than Coal, but Will Its Energy Shift Continue?
Coal-fired power generation is still growing, but not as fast amid ambitious clean energy policies and falling solar costs.

Renewable energy investments in India are outpacing spending on fossil fuel power generation, a sign that the world's second-most populous nation is making good on promises to shift its coal-heavy economy toward cleaner power.

Quote
The report found that renewable power investments in India exceeded those of fossil fuel-based power for the third year in a row, and that spending on solar energy surpassed spending on coal-fired power generation for the first time in 2018.

Quote
In contrast, India's new coal power generation has dropped from roughly 20 gigawatts of additional capacity per year to less than 10 gigawatts added in each of the last three years, said Sameer Kwatra, a climate change and energy policy analyst with the Natural Resources Defense Council.

"There is a realization that renewables are quicker, cleaner, cheaper and also strategically in India's interest because of energy security; it just makes financial sense to invest in renewables," he said.

Kwatra said government policies are speeding the licensing and building of large-scale solar arrays so that they come on line faster than coal plants. As one of the world's largest importers of coal, India has a strong incentive to develop new, domestic energy sources, reducing its trade deficit, he said.

https://www.nrdc.org/experts/anjali-jaiswal/expanding-renewable-energy-india

Quote
Expanding Renewable Energy in India
September 17, 2019 Anjali Jaiswal Sameer Kwatra

The overall growth of renewable energy in India has been remarkable. India has achieved nearly 80 gigawatts of installed renewable energy, nearly doubling in the last five year. Yet, much more is needed to power India’s growing economy. To expand the renewable energy market in India, NRDC is excited to be at the Renewable Energy India Expo in New Delhi this week.

India’s power capacity is expected to grow six-fold from 356 gigawatts (GW) in 2018 to 2,300 GW by 2050, according to Bloomberg New Energy Finance. As a result, India is projected to overtake the United States to become the second largest power system in the world behind China by 2044. Most estimates, including those from the central government, project this growth in power capacity to be met in large part through renewable energy, which is expected to reach more than 1000 GW by 2050.

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/small-biz/productline/power-generation/india-on-track-to-achieve-175-gw-of-renewable-energy-by-2022-government/articleshow/71614562.cms

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India on track to achieve 175 GW of renewable energy by 2022: Government

Quote
Power and New & Renewable Energy Minister R K Singh on Tuesday exuded confidence that India will achieve 175GW of renewable energy target by 2022.

"The target of having 175 GW of renewable energy by 2022 looks huge. But, today we have established 83 GW clean energy. About 29 GW of renewable energy is under installation. That makes it 112GW and under about 30GW is under bid. So that makes the 175GW of renewables. I am very confident that we would make it (175GW of renewables by 2022)

Ken Feldman

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #4251 on: November 05, 2019, 10:40:25 PM »
In the US, investments have shifted so quickly from fossil fuels to renewables that the Government agencies tracking projects show large increases in renewable every time they update their estimates of new renewable energy coming online.  Most recently, the FERC estimate of new renewables installed by 2022 has grown by 26% since February.

https://pvbuzz.com/renewable-energy-generating-capacity-to-grow/

Quote
U.S. renewable energy generating capacity to grow by 47 gigawatts—FERC data
No new coal capacity; net reduction in fossil fuels; significant decline for nuclear power. Plus net new wind and solar capacity more than double that of natural gas

By Editorial Team on November 3, 2019

Washington DC – According to a review by the SUN DAY Campaign of data just released by the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission (FERC), the agency has once again revised its three-year forecast for changes in the U.S. electrical generating capacity mix. Sharp declines are foreseen for fossil fuels and nuclear power while renewable energy (i.e., biomass, geothermal, hydropower, solar, wind) is forecast to experience even stronger growth than previously projected.

FERC’s latest monthly “Energy Infrastructure Update” report (with data through August 31, 2019) indicates that “proposed additions under construction” and “proposed retirements” combined could result in a net decrease in the generating capacity of fossil fuels (i.e., coal, natural gas, oil) as well as a net decline of nearly five percent (4.56%) in nuclear capacity by August 2022.

Meanwhile, led by wind and solar, the generating capacity of renewable energy sources is foreseen to grow by more than 47 gigawatts (GW).

While net new natural gas generating capacity is projected to increase by 19,757 megawatts (MW), that is more than offset by a drop of 18,957 MW in coal’s net generating capacity and a decline of 3,016 MW in that of oil. Further, nuclear power is foreseen as dropping by 4,851 MW.

Quote
Specifically, FERC’s most recent three-year forecast for net new generating capacity by wind is 3,099 MW higher than a comparable forecast in its “Energy Infrastructure Report for February 2019” while that for utility-scale solar has grown by 5,809 MW. Including hydropower, biomass, and geothermal, the cumulative result is an increase over the past six months in FERC’s three-year forecast for net new generating capacity by renewable energy sources from 37,622 MW to 47,411 — i.e., 26.0% higher.

NeilT

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #4252 on: November 06, 2019, 02:10:20 PM »
Today

Quote
Renewable electricity capacity was 45.9 GW at the end of 2019 Q2

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/835114/Renewables_September_2019.pdf

And

Gridwatch tells us that we are generating 5.3Gw with renewables. Of our 20gw of wind, we are generating 0.7 GW, down from 0.8gw when I started writing this.

On the other hand our other major CO2 neutral generation, Nuclear, has an installed capacity near 8gw and is delivering 6.7 of it.

The slack is taken up by gas and we are also, still, burning 2gw of coal.  Why? 45gw is more than the entire grid demand in the UK today.  If Solar and Wind delivered what it claimed, we would be burning no coal and no gas.

This is harsh reality.

We need to accept it and work out how we remove FF power whilst securing the supply.

Right now Wind and solar are Not it.  How, exactly, do we expect to charge all these new EV when our renewables are not delivering.?
Being right too soon is socially unacceptable.

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etienne

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #4253 on: November 06, 2019, 10:14:27 PM »
Right now Wind and solar are Not it.  How, exactly, do we expect to charge all these new EV when our renewables are not delivering.?
Reducing consumption is the only way. Nuclear also can't solve our problems because it only provides baseload, risks and radioactive thrash. Smaller cars is the first step.

gerontocrat

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #4254 on: November 06, 2019, 10:18:25 PM »

For the real picture of California renewables, why not look at how California generates its electricity or how much renewable capacity is being installed? 
So I have - data from https://www.energy.ca.gov/data-reports/energy-almanac.

No simple data for 2019 tabulated found by me. Nor could I find total energy - to include transportation and direct use of natural gas & coal.

Perhaps of most significance is California has divorced growth in electricity use from growth in GDP. So growth in renewables has not been perpetually chasing growth in demand.

And some data       2001    2018             Percentages of total electricity generation
Wind+ Solar            1.2%    13.6%
Coal                      10.3%      3.3%
Natural gas            43.4%    31.8%

So to get the 33% renewables often quoted they have to chuck in all sorts of other stuff.
"Para a Causa do Povo a Luta Continua!"
"And that's all I'm going to say about that". Forrest Gump
"Damn, I wanted to see what happened next" (Epitaph)

etienne

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #4255 on: November 06, 2019, 10:29:52 PM »
I think that California allows self consumption of PV power without requiring any declaration. So reduced consumption could also mean transfer to self produced electricity.
Consumption reduction is normal these days because of efficiency gains in lightning.

gerontocrat

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #4256 on: November 06, 2019, 11:03:18 PM »
I think that California allows self consumption of PV power without requiring any declaration. So reduced consumption could also mean transfer to self produced electricity.
Consumption reduction is normal these days because of efficiency gains in lightning.

lightning? Is California full of hideous sapient creatures brought to life by judicious application of electricity from lightning? (California should be glad that Trump's new home is on the other side of the continent.
(For more data google Peter Cushing Hammer Horror movies about Dr Frankenstein )
_______________________________________
Frankenstein; or, The Modern Prometheus is a novel written by English author Mary Shelley (1797–1851) that tells the story of Victor Frankenstein, a young scientist who creates a hideous sapient creature in an unorthodox scientific experiment. Shelley started writing the story when she was 18, and the first edition was published anonymously in London on 1 January 1818, when she was 20.[2] Her name first appeared on the second edition, published in 1823.
Wikipedia
"Para a Causa do Povo a Luta Continua!"
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oren

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #4257 on: November 06, 2019, 11:08:00 PM »
G, thanks for this graph.
Share of renewables appears to be higher than 25% (wind, solar, hydro, geothermal). Not too far to 33% (but it should be 100%!).
The good news is that absolute fossil fuel generation is slowly shrinking.

BeeKnees

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #4258 on: November 06, 2019, 11:17:19 PM »
We need to accept it and work out how we remove FF power whilst securing the supply.

Right now Wind and solar are Not it.  How, exactly, do we expect to charge all these new EV when our renewables are not delivering.?

Not sure I follow this argument.  Wind and Solar are intermittent and will only start to deliver once renewables can provide more than 100% for periods and the excess can be stored.

Until that point is reached then we won't get away from fossil fuels. The answer is more wind, more solar and much more storage.  Several times this year the UK spot price had gone negative and wind farms have been turned off due to excess electricity production so the time is ideal for a big growth in storage.

We just need a government that understands and pushes for action.

TerryM

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #4259 on: November 06, 2019, 11:23:06 PM »

Gerontocrat
California's largest gain seems to be in "Non-Coal Imported Energy".


Over the last 20 years California has become increasingly less capable, or less willing to produce the electricity she consumes. Shutting down large Nuclear facilities in an earthquake country makes perfect sense, and coal needs to go - but importing electricity to fill the gap(s) is going to be increasingly expensive as the producing states find their own needs expanding.


Importing additional electricity will require more long distance, high voltage lines. The kind that may ignite fires that generate GHG even as they destroy lives and infrastructure.


Cutting back on electrical use is the only way to mitigate the problem that I can see, but will more efficient appliances, thicker blankets of insulation and low wattage lighting have any effect if EVs flood the market?


Terry

Bruce Steele

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #4260 on: November 06, 2019, 11:41:59 PM »
Geronocrat, From the energy ca gov energy almanac you sourced. “Most electricity from PV is not counted into the total electricity production of the utility companies as the solar panels are mounted on individual homes or businesses.” So there is the solar being generated from ~ one million homes that have solar PV on their roofs not getting counted in the PV production numbers quoted + PV from businesses.
 The way to get renewables to power up the expansion in electric vehicles is to push home solar up
5 kW for each new electric car parked in the garage. Some study on how many new electric vehicles have most or all their electric supplied by behind the meter home solar systems would be an interesting read.
 Here is some numbers on ca. solar PV
https://www.californiasolarstatistics.ca.gov/reports/agency_stats/
« Last Edit: November 06, 2019, 11:55:53 PM by Bruce Steele »

gerontocrat

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #4261 on: November 06, 2019, 11:54:00 PM »
[quote author=TerryM link=topic=256.
Cutting back on electrical use is the only way to mitigate the problem that I can see, but will more efficient appliances, thicker blankets of insulation and low wattage lighting have any effect if EVs flood the market?

Terry
[/quote]
Hullo Terry.

Next year and the year after we will see if all the blah blah about vast increases in Solar PV & wind & batteries turns into reality.

But you are quite right. Investments in energy efficiency will probably more often than not have a greater impact on a home, office and factory energy use (and the cost thereof) than simply banging in more renewables.

Utilities don't want to hear it. The less traffic on their lines the less revenue while the fixed costs (especially depreciation/amortisation) stay the same. The bottom line gets hit.

And it ain't sexy, so just does not get up the list of priorities for Governments to make it happen.
"Para a Causa do Povo a Luta Continua!"
"And that's all I'm going to say about that". Forrest Gump
"Damn, I wanted to see what happened next" (Epitaph)

gerontocrat

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #4262 on: November 07, 2019, 12:06:38 AM »
Geronocrat, From the energy ca gov energy almanac you sourced. “Most electricity from PV is not counted into the total electricity production of the utility companies as the solar panels are mounted on individual homes or businesses.” So there is the solar being generated from ~ one million homes that have solar PV on their roofs not getting counted in the PV production numbers quoted + PV from businesses.
 The way to get renewables to power up the expansion in electric vehicles is to push home solar up
5 kW for each new electric car parked in the garage. Some study on how many new electric vehicles have most or all their electric supplied by behind the meter home solar systems would be an interesting read.
 Here is some numbers on ca. solar PV
https://www.californiasolarstatistics.ca.gov/reports/agency_stats/
So the utilities have got the same transmission lines but over time less traffic on them. Home solar becomes the normal and businesses realise they can save themselves money by doing something useful with their factory/shop/office roof and a car parking space given over to a Tesla 3mwh pre-assembled storage battery . It make one wonder what future the utilities (e.g. PG&E) have.

ps Bruce, thanks for the link - but have you had an energy efficiency man out to look at your place to see how you could maximise energy efficiency?  A real world example is worth a load more than theory.

pps: Add all that unrecorded solar electricity generation from off grid installations (annual GWH?) and has California electricity use actually increased, not decreased? 2000 mw = 2GW capacity for say 2500 hours per year = 5,000 GWH ? Still marginal? Oh - for some good data
« Last Edit: November 07, 2019, 12:21:01 AM by gerontocrat »
"Para a Causa do Povo a Luta Continua!"
"And that's all I'm going to say about that". Forrest Gump
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oren

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #4263 on: November 07, 2019, 12:07:57 AM »
Quote
Cutting back on electrical use is the only way to mitigate the problem that I can see, but will more efficient appliances, thicker blankets of insulation and low wattage lighting have any effect if EVs flood the market?
As the graph clearly shows, since 2015 California has indeed cut its electricity usage, and even more so its non-renewable electricity usage. At the same time, total number of plug-in vehicles in California increased about tenfold to over 500,000 at the end of 2018, and plug-in market share is ~10% of new vehicle sales. So maybe the EV monster is not as scary as you might think. (Admittedly, these are still relatively small numbers).

Bruce Steele

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #4264 on: November 07, 2019, 01:00:33 AM »
Somehow my personal world seems so mundane. Most of what I have learned about my energy use fits in with the obvious, I need to replace single pane windows, cut down on leaky door seals, and somehow add more insulation.  Some things like the energy  my water system pressure pump uses is a bit of a surprise . I don’t think they sell manufactured homes in Europe but they are cheap housing and that means they are energy hogs. The only way I could afford to buy a farm was to settle for living in an old manufactured house. I have replaced some windows, added attic ventilation and my solar system supplies 90-100% of my house and business electric. It is November and I will have to fire up the gas heater soon but only for a couple months.
 I would like to have a whole farm energy audit . Feed / energy, transportation energy, farm tractors, water pumping, and the house / barn . I would like to compare that to the calories produced by my pig business. Don’t know a single farm energy auditor in Calif., they might not exist.
 I just bought a field of winter squash seconds for a thousand dollars. I have to pick them out of the field and transport them . I hauled two tons yesterday, I have about 50 tons to go . Acorn season is starting but there is an energy cost even for gleaned / foraged / or crop seconds. I am kinda obsessed with the food end of our energy predicament and it’s solution is nowhere as simple as residential electric. If I can get a farm energy audit I will let you know how the plus and minus columns look.
 Embodied energy costs are one more part of this puzzle. So somewhere the embodied costs of fixing my energy leeks has to get balanced with the energy I could save . 

sidd

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #4265 on: November 07, 2019, 08:37:43 AM »
Re: " Feed / energy, transportation energy, farm tractors, water pumping, and the house / barn "

Took me about three years to get that done. You need at least a year because farming is so seasonal. Then one has cold winters and such that blow out your heating budgets ...

sidd

Aporia_filia

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #4266 on: November 07, 2019, 11:17:51 AM »
The water system pressure pump uses a lot of energy, as Bruce mentioned. I did install some pump systems for wells (see Grundfos or Lorentz) and the only good solution is adding a storage high deposit, that's always refilled with solar during the day and let you use water by gravity force whenever you need it. That was how my farm worked and you can get 20.000 liter fiver-glass deposits for less than 3.000€.

NeilT

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #4267 on: November 07, 2019, 02:34:02 PM »

We just need a government that understands and pushes for action.

I don't disagree in the slightest. Storage is key, but we had 2 days where renewables delivered ~10% of nameplate power.  So do we size renewables to 10 times current capacity?  There is no solution which will store whole grid overcapacity for an extended period.

Storing 90% of UK grid power for a 2 day supply constraint is impossible with current tech. I have discussed this before.  On that scale, every EV in the country would need to go V2G and they do not, on average, have enough power for that.

Granted if vehicles had 500kw/h packs it would be perfect as a buffer.  But 100 is bad enough a t current weight and costs.

As for reducing consumption? We insulate, we scale down and the UK grid demand drops every decade. It is not enough and it never will be.  EV demand will be at least 50% of the current grid.

We still haven't answered the question.  What happens when all the wind farms are becalmed for a week. Because in the UK that averages out to around 3.6 TW/h of storage needed.

The UK has just short of 39 million vehicles on the road today. If they all had a 40kw/h battery in them their V2G potential would be 1.5TW/h.

Taking those figures and assuming that each vehicle needs to be charged by 25%, every day produces a grid figure which is rather daunting.

These are all real questions we need to answer.  Our EVs are likely to be our best source of renewable storage.  But not at 40KW/h per vehicle. A minimum would be 200 where we sequester 100 for the grid. Then what do we do on the days they are full and power keeps flooding in?

To be clear, I'm not saying No we can't do it.  What I am saying is that governments need to start planning for a future where easy on FF power will not be there.

Today I see renewable energy as a political football.  Not a realistic solution.  It needs to stop and be a real solution.
Being right too soon is socially unacceptable.

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GoSouthYoungins

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #4268 on: November 07, 2019, 02:44:52 PM »
Here is the solution:

Pump water into the Great Basin in the US. Use the reservoir as a huge hydro battery.

Energy storage. Sea level rise mitigation. Elimination of Nevada. 3 for 1.
big time oops

TerryM

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #4269 on: November 07, 2019, 04:34:48 PM »
Here is the solution:

Pump water into the Great Basin in the US. Use the reservoir as a huge hydro battery.

Energy storage. Sea level rise mitigation. Elimination of Nevada. 3 for 1.
AAAWK
Without Nevada gambling debts to pay off, what would motivate all of those bright young minds in SillyCone Valley to return to their cubicles? They come to town driving $100K show cars & leave in $Million Dollar Greyhounds.


Nevada's prostitutes and gambling halls have provided the necessary motivation for California's nerds since Bugsy Siegel built his Tropicana & San Bernardino got religion.
Terry ::)

NeilT

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #4270 on: November 07, 2019, 07:10:48 PM »
Here is the solution:

Pump water into the Great Basin in the US. Use the reservoir as a huge hydro battery.

Energy storage. Sea level rise mitigation. Elimination of Nevada. 3 for 1.

Nice, then India and China can continue with their Terraforming+ experiment unhindered.

Excellent.
Being right too soon is socially unacceptable.

Robert A. Heinlein

Ken Feldman

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #4271 on: November 07, 2019, 07:21:29 PM »

For the real picture of California renewables, why not look at how California generates its electricity or how much renewable capacity is being installed? 
So I have - data from https://www.energy.ca.gov/data-reports/energy-almanac.

No simple data for 2019 tabulated found by me. Nor could I find total energy - to include transportation and direct use of natural gas & coal.

Perhaps of most significance is California has divorced growth in electricity use from growth in GDP. So growth in renewables has not been perpetually chasing growth in demand.

And some data       2001    2018             Percentages of total electricity generation
Wind+ Solar            1.2%    13.6%
Coal                      10.3%      3.3%
Natural gas            43.4%    31.8%

So to get the 33% renewables often quoted they have to chuck in all sorts of other stuff.

Geroncrat,

I don't think you used the correct numbers.  I followed the link you provided and see this instead:

In 2018, wind (32.7 GWh, 11.46%) and solar (32.5 GWh, 11.40%) provided 22.86% of California's electricity.  The total share of renewables, excluding large hydro, was 31.36%. 




gerontocrat

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #4272 on: November 07, 2019, 08:01:58 PM »

The UK has just short of 39 million vehicles on the road today. If they all had a 40kw/h battery in them their V2G potential would be 1.5TW/h.

Taking those figures and assuming that each vehicle needs to be charged by 25%, every day produces a grid figure which is rather daunting.

I am sure I did something like this before - lost.

So here is a simple calculation of potential EV demand for electricity in UK (and the USA) by passenger vehicles ONLY.  Obviously vans, trucks and HGVs will add quite a bit more.

But for autos, it looks like about 23% (UK) and 27% (USA) of current total electricity supply (UK).

Doable over 20 years, maybe with real Govt commitment? Saves fossil fuel (I think) even if it means some Natural Gas power stations have to stay open longer.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2019, 08:09:01 PM by gerontocrat »
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NeilT

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #4273 on: November 07, 2019, 08:44:46 PM »
Doable over 20 years, maybe with real Govt commitment? Saves fossil fuel (I think) even if it means some Natural Gas power stations have to stay open longer.

I agree, it's doable. But the Government would need to really commit to it.

Also people would have to sign up to a concept of "sharing the wealth" as it were for V2G where everyone benefits from everyone sharing and emergency needs can be accommodated.

But neither the people nor the government are overly good at that.

Even then, we'd have to get over the "ever shrinking grid" and the black spots when renewables simply aren't there.  Today our Wind returned to 8GW but Solar was down even more.  Even then, we have 20GW of wind installed, nameplate, yet we never get much more than 9GW out of it.

At that rate we'd have to install 100GW of wind and we'd still be out of luck on the calm days.  Then we'd have to find somewhere to put/sell it on the windy days.

A long, long, road to go in terms of balancing input and demand from unstable sources on a whole grid scale.
Being right too soon is socially unacceptable.

Robert A. Heinlein

Ken Feldman

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #4274 on: November 07, 2019, 08:49:54 PM »

We just need a government that understands and pushes for action.

I don't disagree in the slightest. Storage is key, but we had 2 days where renewables delivered ~10% of nameplate power.  So do we size renewables to 10 times current capacity?  There is no solution which will store whole grid overcapacity for an extended period.

Storing 90% of UK grid power for a 2 day supply constraint is impossible with current tech. I have discussed this before.  On that scale, every EV in the country would need to go V2G and they do not, on average, have enough power for that.

...

We still haven't answered the question.  What happens when all the wind farms are becalmed for a week. Because in the UK that averages out to around 3.6 TW/h of storage needed.

...



Import energy from where the wind is blowing and the sun is shining.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/11/07/business/statkraft-virtual-power-plant/index.html

Quote
London (CNN Business)Virtual power plants could solve one of renewable energy's most vexing challenges: the weather.

By supplying electricity from renewable sources even when the sun isn't shining and the wind isn't blowing, virtual power plant technology could help tackle the climate crisis.

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Virtual power plants attempt to solve that problem by connecting disparate sources of renewable production, generation and storage. By pooling those resources, engineers can make them behave like a conventional power plant.

For example, a virtual power plant might be connected to 10 geographically dispersed wind farms to smooth the variability in output of each one. It could also include an energy storage component, so that if production from the wind farms outstrips demand a fleet of batteries can be charged so they can supply more power later when required. Other features that encourage consumers to optimize their energy use can also be incorporated.

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Norwegian company Statkraft has been running one of Europe's biggest power generation facilities in this way since 2011.

The virtual power plant, in Germany, has capacity greater than 12,000 megawatts and could theoretically power 5 million homes.

It uses a cloud-based artificial intelligence platform to connect more than 1,500 wind, solar and hydropower plants across Europe with electricity generation and storage facilities, such as batteries.

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When there is excess electricity supply, production at plants can be throttled or energy can be stored for use at a later date. This ensures smaller producers always have a market for their power and helps to avoid negative energy prices.

"We can connect batteries from Spain with wind farms in Germany, and that makes it scalable," Andreas Bader, vice president for sales at Statkraft told CNN Business.

Ken Feldman

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #4275 on: November 07, 2019, 08:55:09 PM »
Renewables delivered more power than coal to Australia's grid for the first time this week.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/nov/07/renewables-meet-50-of-electricity-demand-on-australias-power-grid-for-first-time

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Renewables meet 50% of electricity demand on Australia's power grid for first time

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Australia’s main electricity grid was briefly powered by 50% renewable energy this week in a new milestone that experts say will become increasingly normal.

Data on the sources of power in the National Electricity Market showed that at 11.50am on Wednesday, renewables were providing 50.2% of the power to Queensland, New South Wales, Victoria, Tasmania and South Australia – the five states served by the market.

Rooftop solar was providing 23.7% of all the power demand, followed by wind at 15.7%, large-scale solar with 8.8% and hydro at 1.9%.

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Dylan McConnell, of the University of Melbourne’s Climate and Energy College and who helped develop the tool, said: “We will start to see this happening more frequently. It was just a snapshot in time, but it’s indicative of an underlying trend in the system.”

Renewables maintained the 50% mark for only about 10 minutes and over the entire day contributed 31.2% of the electricity used across the five states.

Sigmetnow

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #4276 on: November 07, 2019, 09:09:28 PM »
Renewables delivered more power than coal to Australia's grid for the first time this week.
...

“A continuous rollout of rooftop solar electricity was a key driver, McConnell said.”
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

Sigmetnow

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #4277 on: November 07, 2019, 10:14:34 PM »
Rocky Mountain Institute Claims New Gas Generating Stations & Pipelines Are Tomorrow’s Stranded Assets
Quote
“Even as clean energy costs continue to fall, utilities and other investors have announced plans for over $70 billion in new gas-fired power plant construction through 2025. RMI research finds that 90% of this proposed capacity is more costly than equivalent [Clean Energy Portfolios] and, if those plants are built anyway, they would be uneconomic to continue operating in 2035, well ahead of the ends of their planned economic lifetime. Continued investments in these power plants will present stranded cost risk for customers, shareholders, and society, while locking in 100 million tons of CO2 emissions each year.”
https://cleantechnica.com/2019/11/07/rocky-mountain-institute-claims-new-gas-generating-stations-pipelines-are-tomorrows-stranded-assets/
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gerontocrat

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #4278 on: November 07, 2019, 11:21:16 PM »
Import energy from where the wind is blowing and the sun is shining.
I have a vague memory of a Europe-wide plan to build a network of ultra-high DC voltage transmission lines capable of shifting large amounts of power all around Europe as and when needed.

Will it happen?
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Ken Feldman

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #4279 on: November 08, 2019, 12:06:33 AM »
Import energy from where the wind is blowing and the sun is shining.
I have a vague memory of a Europe-wide plan to build a network of ultra-high DC voltage transmission lines capable of shifting large amounts of power all around Europe as and when needed.

Will it happen?

Is it necessary?  The article I linked to indicated that it can be done now through existing grids using cloud computing to control the switching.

GoSouthYoungins

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #4280 on: November 08, 2019, 03:53:41 AM »
I have a vague memory of a Europe-wide plan to build a network of ultra-high DC voltage transmission lines capable of shifting large amounts of power all around Europe as and when needed.

Meanwhile they are importing jihadis. Brilliant.
big time oops

GoSouthYoungins

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #4281 on: November 08, 2019, 04:00:28 AM »
Renewables meet 50% of electricity demand on Australia's power grid for first time

...for about 10 minutes cuz it was sunny and the wind was blowing.

Coal will continue to decline. Gas won't.
big time oops

NeilT

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #4282 on: November 08, 2019, 03:46:12 PM »
Is it necessary?  The article I linked to indicated that it can be done now through existing grids using cloud computing to control the switching.

You cannot switch power over a link that is not sized for the power, no matter how smart your cloud computing.

The EU is essentially 28 silo's of national power grids with interconnects between them of varying capacity.  The UK has a 2GW interconnect to France and a 1GW interconnect to the Netherlands and Belgium respectively.  We also have 0.5GW to Northern Ireland and another link to Dublin which is not specified but looks like it's 1GW.

info here  https://gridwatch.co.uk/

So Germany could have 20GW of spare power but, given enough interconnect bandwidth through the Netherlands, Belgium and France, the most you are getting of in the UK is 4GW.  It doesn't matter how smart your switching is.

This was the premise of the EU HVDC interconnect grid.  Germany has a similar problem in country where it generates the majority of the Renewable energy in the north, but can't transmit it south due to a lack of large enough interconnects inside the country.  Germany also has a massively fragmented energy market which restricts the delivery of a homogenised infrastructure.

You can read more about it in the links below.  It was April 2018, but things have not changed that radically since.

https://www.cleanenergywire.org/factsheets/interconnectors-blockages-german-grid-odds-eu-power-market
https://www.cleanenergywire.org/dossiers/energy-transition-and-germanys-power-grid#updating

Statements like this one emphasize the problem.

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However, bottlenecks in Germany’s internal north-south transmission grid are causing problems for further integration of power markets. Already, the grid cannot physically deliver the volume of power being traded. And Germany’s neighbours are complaining about destabilising loop-flows, as congestion in the German grid forces power into those of neighbouring countries, and about blockages at the borders.
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nanning

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #4283 on: November 08, 2019, 05:16:15 PM »
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/nov/08/africa-poised-lead-way-global-green-revolution-says-report
  by Jillian Ambrose

 Continent is set for massive urbanisation but can avoid relying on fossil fuels, says IEA

Birol said: “Africa’s total contribution to cumulative global emissions from energy over the last 100 years is only 2%, which is half the emissions of Germany today. If everyone in Africa had access to energy this 2% will rise to just 3% – it’s still nothing. It’s peanuts compared to other countries in the world which are using fossil fuels such as coal for energy.

“But while Africa does not contribute to climate change the continent is on the frontline of its potential effects, including droughts. Africa is perhaps the most innocent continent in terms of its contributions to climate change, but they will be the victims.”
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #4284 on: November 10, 2019, 02:44:55 PM »
Pumped hydro.  It’s not just for big lakes anymore.

Elon Musk Should Build Pumped Hydro With Tesla Energy, The Boring Co., & Coal Miners
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“We found about 616,000 potentially feasible PHES sites with storage potential of about 23 million Gigawatt-hours (GWh) by using geographic information system (GIS) analysis. This is about one hundred times greater than required to support a 100% global renewable electricity system.”

In other words, we only need to use about 1% of the global pumped hydro resource locations to satisfy our needs. Furthermore, pumped hydro can store energy for weeks and the round trip from electricity to elevated water to electricity is 80% to 90% efficient. It’s already by far the largest form of utility-scale storage in the world, with more than 160 GW of rated capacity of pumped hydro in operation as of the end of 2016.

NREL published a report on the value of pumped hydro in 2018 that’s worth quoting a couple of bits from:

“PSH is a highly flexible, low-marginal-cost, and fast-acting generation asset, and in the market simulations, it was shown to reduce system-wide operational costs in both the day-ahead and real-time markets”

“In all market simulations, the addition of PSH significantly reduced the annual operating costs for the test system. Cost savings ranged from 1.2% to 2.8% in the day-ahead market simulations and between 3.9% to 10% in the real-time simulations.”
...
“An approximate guide to storage requirements for 100% renewable electricity, based on analysis for Australia, is 1 Gigawatt (GW) of power per million people with 20 hours of storage, which amounts to 20 GWh per million people. This is for a strongly-connected large-area grid (1 million km2) with good wind and solar resources in a high-energy-use country.”

And what is the resource size for the United States? The study shows that the United States has about 4,500 GWh of potential STORES sites per million people, over 200x what is expected to be required.

...
But back to Elon Musk. As I pointed out earlier, the Boring Company isn’t well suited for Gravity Energy’s large-diameter shaft requirement. But what about closed-loop pumped hydro as identified by the STORES study? Pumped hydro requires tunnels, not a huge shaft. The tunnels range from 4.5 to 8 meters per existing sites and a Springer study.

What does the Boring Company do? It bores 4.3-meter finished shafts. What does Tesla Energy do? It does energy storage. Start at the bottom, point the Line-Storm upward to the upper reservoir, start it up and use the resulting tunnel rock and soil in the earthen bulwarks of the reservoirs. What else is good for closed-loop pumped hydro? Covering material of some sort to reduce evaporation so that you don’t have to top them up that often, which strikes me as an excellent use case for Tesla’s commercial solar panels, floating on the placid waters of the upper and lower reservoirs. Seems like a no-brainer. So I reached out to Elon. ...

No response yet, but it’s only been a few hours. If he does respond, I’m sure that will make for an interesting discussion. ...
https://cleantechnica.com/2019/11/09/elon-musk-should-build-pumped-hydro-with-tesla-energy-the-boring-co-coal-miners/
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Tom_Mazanec

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #4285 on: November 10, 2019, 03:46:57 PM »
616,000 sites and not one in my home state of Ohio.
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TerryM

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #4286 on: November 10, 2019, 05:57:13 PM »
616,000 sites and not one in my home state of Ohio.
But so many in the arid deserts of the SouthWest. :)


Not all of the squirrels are in the woods. ;D
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #4287 on: November 10, 2019, 07:17:21 PM »
616,000 sites and not one in my home state of Ohio.
Flatter states can examine using the technique with surface water + existing coal mines....

Quote
But so many in the arid deserts of the SouthWest. :)
“What else is good for closed-loop pumped hydro? Covering material of some sort to reduce evaporation so that you don’t have to top them up that often, which strikes me as an excellent use case for Tesla’s commercial solar panels, floating on the placid waters of the upper and lower reservoirs. Seems like a no-brainer. So I reached out to Elon.”
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BeeKnees

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #4288 on: November 10, 2019, 08:52:04 PM »
Storing 90% of UK grid power for a 2 day supply constraint is impossible with current tech. I have discussed this before.  On that scale, every EV in the country would need to go V2G and they do not, on average, have enough power for that.
I just don't see this as necessary, probably ever.
We are tied into 10-20% Nuclear for many years to come.  A boost in offshore and the continued growth of renewables will get us to a point where even a bad day will provide 20%+
After that we have the interconnectors, new links to Iceland and Norway can tap into geothermal and hydro.

We could reach a point where the UK needs to store or burn fuel for a maximum of 30%.  This is viable using all the storage options currently possible, I'd like to see us investing in hydrogen and using fuel cells for this, supported by a smarter grid using local storage.

Sigmetnow

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #4289 on: November 11, 2019, 02:05:18 AM »
3 Tesla Powerwalls + SunPower Solar = 33 Days “Off Grid” — CleanTechnica Interview
November 10th, 2019
Quote
New York state resident Anthony Sicari has a home solar power and energy storage system that he used to power his home “off- grid” for 33 days. That’s a bit more than one month of electricity self-generation, Tesla Powerwall battery storage, and consumption. To be extra clear, the home only used electricity from the solar panel & battery combination during that period, none from the utility.
...
What is the capacity of your home solar system?
We have 36 X-360-watt SunPower panels on our roof, for a total system size of 12.96 kW. Our panels will produce about 13,500 kWh/year.
...one night when the energy stored in my system almost depleted, but because of the SunPower panels still having produced kWh in the terrible weather that day, I was able to complete the 30-day Living Off the Grid Challenge I had set forth on. Without SunPower panels I could not have done so.
...
In your videos, you mention you wanted to maintain normal electricity consumption, instead of going into conservation mode.
Yes, my goal was to use everything in the home that we would normally use without changing our daily routines. Washer, dryer, fridge, TVs, air conditioning, and heating with heat pumps and mini splits. Some days my wife would ask me, “Are we still off the grid?” It was pretty amazing to do this with all the modern amenities. ...
https://cleantechnica.com/2019/11/10/3-tesla-powerwalls-sunpower-solar-33-days-off-grid/
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NeilT

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #4290 on: November 11, 2019, 04:16:59 AM »
Storing 90% of UK grid power for a 2 day supply constraint is impossible with current tech. I have discussed this before.  On that scale, every EV in the country would need to go V2G and they do not, on average, have enough power for that.
I just don't see this as necessary, probably ever.

I was being conservative.  The UK has already seen virtual 0% wind for a full week. We already have nameplate power for wind at half max normal demand, yet we regularly see 1GW or less in a day.

Just how many times total demand do we need to install to see 20% during lows?

It is a fact and we have to prepare for it.
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BeeKnees

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #4291 on: November 11, 2019, 07:57:00 AM »
Just how many times total demand do we need to install to see 20% during lows?

It is a fact and we have to prepare for it.

It's not a fact and it's not about just installing more of the same.
Off shore wind is more reliable and currently represents about 8% of all electricity supplied. The newer, taller offshore turbines produce electricity in lower wind speeds as well as generating more overall as a percentage of their peak. If we are to get to the point where this resource can support 20% it needs to at least quadruple.

We already have 8GW installed with another 6GW under construction.  Which is why I'm optimistic about it. It's a numbers game, the more we build, the less fossil and biomass is required and the more that can be covered by storage. 

NeilT

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #4292 on: November 11, 2019, 02:54:23 PM »
Last week, for 2 days, that 8GW offshore wind produced a part of the 0.8GW peak wind we experienced.

I reported it at the time.  That is less than 10% of the nameplate power for 2 full days.  It is Fact. Denying it or wishing and hoping for the best is not a practical proposal.

It just makes practical people doubt every word you say and that does not help.

I spent years digging into wind turbine power figures.  There is a good article out there about turbine saturation.  But when it talks about 4 million 5MW turbines to deliver half the world's power and the fact that it will take 2,800 TW of nameplate power to deliver 250TW of deliverable power, it just makes my question more pertinent.
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BeeKnees

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #4293 on: November 11, 2019, 07:48:56 PM »
Last week, for 2 days, that 8GW offshore wind produced a part of the 0.8GW peak wind we experienced.

I reported it at the time.  That is less than 10% of the nameplate power for 2 full days.  It is Fact. Denying it or wishing and hoping for the best is not a practical proposal.

It just makes practical people doubt every word you say and that does not help.

I spent years digging into wind turbine power figures.  There is a good article out there about turbine saturation.  But when it talks about 4 million 5MW turbines to deliver half the world's power and the fact that it will take 2,800 TW of nameplate power to deliver 250TW of deliverable power, it just makes my question more pertinent.
This is disingenuous and misses the point,
Older turbines achieve around 30% of their theoretical maximum, the latest are approaching 50%.  The nameplate capacity does not matter, what matters is the future potential, farms like Hornsea One are many miles out to sea and therefore get more reliable winds.  The floating turbines in deeper water off Scotland likewise.
Secondly the periods when generation was as low as 0.8gw are not two whole days. The lowest day was 2.5GW, the highest 11GW, so we are not ever looking at covering 90% for two whole days.  This was my point, it's a journey, once we reach a point when significant storage is possible it will shrink the time when renewables can't cover demand, eventually to almost nothing.
http://grid.iamkate.com/


Sigmetnow

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #4294 on: November 11, 2019, 09:25:33 PM »
There is help for poorer folks in California to buy solar + batteries.

California could have helped low-income residents weather PG&E blackouts
Quote
THIS PAST SEPTEMBER, the California Public Utilities Commission announced sweeping changes to the budget in hopes that more people will be encouraged to apply. The solution, it turns out, is more nuanced than simply having to pay for the upfront cost of solar batteries. Starting in 2020, the program will aim to cover nearly all of the costs for a battery installation for residents who live in a disadvantaged or low-income community. 

Disadvantaged communities, as defined by California, face a “combination of economic, health, and environmental burdens.” In addition, residents who meet that threshold and live in high wildfire-risk zones like Los Angeles or the Sierra Nevada will get their energy storage needs met through yet another initiative, the Equity Resiliency Program, which provides an extra $100 million in funding. Crafted in anticipation of events like this fall’s wildfires and blackouts, it’s aimed at providing disadvantaged and medically vulnerable residents like Funes with greater energy resiliency. Tribal nations will also be eligible for this new funding. 

Some structural improvements make the program easier to apply for. And because funding can now be coupled with existing solar panel incentives aimed at disadvantaged residents, people can take advantage of both programs at the same time. This is good news for renters, too: Forty-three percent of California’s low-income residents live in multi-family housing, which will now be able to pair existing solar panel subsidies with storage options. The savings in solar energy would be passed down to tenants, and the buildings could serve as “resiliency centers” for the greater community whenever an outage hits.
...
Nonetheless, for people like Funes, who heard he could add battery storage to his house once the new Equity Budget rolls out, the changes couldn’t come quick enough. He got his solar panels last year, but without storage, they are useless during the blackouts. “I am praying for the batteries to go through,” he said. Lately, he’s been distributing pamphlets to his neighbors, telling them about the solar panels and the possibility of battery storage. But for now, he’s left to the whims of the Santa Ana winds, and of PG&E. “(The power) is going to be going out all the way through November,” Funes said. “I read in the newspaper and on the internet that it is going to be this way for 10 years.”
https://www.hcn.org/articles/renewable-energy-california-designated-72-million-to-help-disadvantaged-communities-access-solar-batteries-p-g-and-e
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NeilT

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #4295 on: November 11, 2019, 09:27:26 PM »
I can agree that significant storage is needed.

The rest, I guess, we'll have to wait and see.

Worst case the Hornsea turbines will need replacement in a decade, best case is 5-10 years more. So there is room for improvement.
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nanning

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #4296 on: November 12, 2019, 08:07:10 AM »
Interesting, thank you for posting Sigmetnow :)
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #4297 on: November 12, 2019, 04:04:17 PM »
Nanning, I wonder if you have seen or read of the “60 Minutes - Australia” interview Elon Musk did around the time of the “Tesla Big Battery” installation there.

When told that the cost of electricity was so high in Australia that some people had to choose between electricity and food, Elon’s emotional reply was:  “... We’ll work harder.”

Elon Musk : We'll Work Harder - YouTube

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nanning

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #4298 on: November 12, 2019, 06:37:45 PM »
I apprecciate your effort but after watching the 1m22 video I have recognized an actor. Sorry. Just my view.
"It is preoccupation with possessions, more than anything else, that prevents us from living freely and nobly" - Bertrand Russell
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Ken Feldman

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #4299 on: November 12, 2019, 06:45:11 PM »
Japan plans to build a 600 MW wind and solar plant on land abandoned in the wake of the Fukishima nuclear disaster.

https://e360.yale.edu/digest/fukushima-to-be-transformed-into-renewable-energy-hub

Quote
E360 Digest
November 11, 2019
Fukushima to be Transformed into Renewable Energy Hub

Eight years after an earthquake and tsunami transformed Fukushima into the site of one of the world’s worst nuclear disasters, plans are underway to turn the Japanese prefecture into a hub of renewable energy. Japanese officials announced a new $2.7 billion project that will include 11 solar plants and 10 wind farms, built on abandoned or contaminated lands, according to The Nikkei, a Japanese newspaper.

The new solar and wind projects will generate up to 600 megawatts of electricity — roughly two-thirds the output of an average nuclear power plant. Sponsors of the project include the government-owned Development Bank of Japan and Mizuho Bank. Construction is expected to be finished in March 2024.