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Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
« Reply #100 on: February 26, 2019, 08:22:15 AM »
From the Democracy Now! video above
A Maduro Critic in Venezuela Slams U.S. Plan to Push Regime Change

 It's truly sad how dumbed down and self-deluded the bulk of the American people (and many in Europe) have become.

When the name calling begins the discourse is over.

But being a "dumb" American I will try anyway. https://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/Smileys/default/grin.gifI remember back to when this started with Venezuelans rioting over corruption in their government. At the time gas prices were on the rise and the government wanted to increase the subsidized gasoline rate. Locals were upset because they would buy gas there and sell it outside the country for a profit. Chavez was dying and didn't want to be the bad guy so he let the problem get worse. Muduro announced an increase in Venezulan gas prices and rioting broke out. Muduro tried to ride it out but the anger was building. Muduro started blaming the U.S. for why they had financial problems.That is when the U.S. started expressing concern about the situation. There was an upcoming election and Muduro wasn't going to win so he suspended the elections and made some changes to ensure his power. After he eliminated his competition (I think he jailed them for corruption or treason but I forget) he backed off on the gas price increase and had elections.   Eventually the U.S. decided to implement sanctions and not subtly hint that a regime change wouldn't be considered amiss. The country was already in financial distress when the sanctions began that is what kicked off the rioting but those sanctions definitely had bite. While the sanctions started out small and targeted they have increased until now they are widespread. The problem with sanctions though is the rich and powerful don't suffer as much, if at all, as the common person.

If the U.S. wanted their oil we would have used a different approach. This has taken oil off the market not put it on. IDK maybe the goal was to take oil off the market. Ostensibly the stated goal was to push for regime change that is more democratic/friendly to the U.S.

I would also like to comment on the assumption that the american people have much control over policy. We have a duopoly which isn't really a choice because both parties are corrupted through and through. Politicians work for the elite and spend their campaign money to find out what the voters want to hear and tell them what poles indicate they want to hear. As soon as the election is over they go back to work for the elite to get more money to lie to the common person.

Rob Dekker

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Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
« Reply #101 on: February 26, 2019, 08:34:03 AM »
I would hate to see you having to change your mind or at worst apologize to the people of Venezuela for being another person who is part of the systemic problems of this the world. You say in your reply to Neven that you want something done "about our addiction to fossil fuels" and yet your opinions, beliefs and words about Trump, Putin and Maduro are repeatedly undermining such 'noble' goals and outright denying your stated 'values' and 'political beliefs.'

Here is my plan for Trump, Putin and Maduro :

I would like all three of these autocrats in the US, Russia and Venezuela and their administrations OUT, and replaced by democratically elected progressive governments who will actually DO recognize the threat of climate change and ACT to phase out fossil fuels over the next few decades.

Yes, I know this is a ludicrous plan, unlikely to happen, but it's mine and you can't have it  ;)

What's YOUR plan ?
 
Incidentally, Maduro is (inadvertently) on track of phasing out fossil fuels, since he is running the entire Venezuelan oil industry into the ground :

« Last Edit: February 26, 2019, 08:57:25 AM by Rob Dekker »
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Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
« Reply #102 on: February 26, 2019, 10:42:34 AM »
Excellent idea. Now all we need to do is replicate that in the USA asap. Run the US economy into the ground too. Too easy. :) 
"You assist an unjust administration most effectively by obeying its orders and decrees. [...] A good person will resist an evil system with his whole soul. Disobedience of the laws of an evil state is therefore a duty."
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Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
« Reply #103 on: February 26, 2019, 10:45:24 AM »


So if I have this correct, you have not had much of a look over the information, data, 'opinions' or the history that's been posted here in the previous posts. fair enough there is a lot. 

And for the record saying: "how dumbed down" is not the same as saying something like "all Americans are dumb"

For that is saying two completely different things which have completely different meanings.

However if what you intimate above is true " the American people do not have much control over policy" (and it does seem to be the case) then this does not strike me as "the American people" being intelligent or very smart. Of course they are not alone in that.
"You assist an unjust administration most effectively by obeying its orders and decrees. [...] A good person will resist an evil system with his whole soul. Disobedience of the laws of an evil state is therefore a duty."
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Lurk

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Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
« Reply #104 on: February 26, 2019, 11:27:19 AM »
This thread is a shame that I wish I hadn't had the displeasure to find.
Don't confuse Venezuela with its current Tirano.
People are dying under Maduro's oppression. Migrating to countries like Spain as refugees because they simply don't have Bread to Eat.
I don't understand why this manipulated content is allowed in this forum.
But now that it is allowed: todo el cariño y el ánimo al pueblo venezolano desde Europa! Abajo la tiranía!


The Empire vs Venezuela? Seriously?

Venezuela vs. Reason
Venezuela vs. its own people
Socialism still doesn't work

These 3 are the real subjects, not the above

I am truly amazed by the spread of socilaism in the West especially amongst the youth. It can only happen to those who did not live in a totalitarian-socialist/communist regime. I did. I know how terrible it is and why it does not work. We had a joke: "Introduce socialism in the Sahara and soon sand will be in short supply". These regimes ALWAYS destroy human dignity, lead to opression, suffering, and lowered living standards. I can not comprehend how anyone can take the side of Maduro (Chavez).

The West has lived too well for too long. You do not appreciate what you have, that is why you will lose it and be sorry afterwards but it will be too late by then. Witness the stupidity of Trump and Brexit - the writing is on the wall.



UN Independent Expert: Venezuela Sanctions Must be Terminated and Economic War Must End
UN independent expert Alfred de Zayas discusses his recent trip to Venezuela and his impressions of the current situation

Alfred de Zayas   Latin America and the Caribbean   February 28, 2018

https://canadiandimension.com/articles/view/un-independent-expert-sanctions-must-be-terminated-and-economic-war-must-en

ZiF: What distinguishes the model in Venezuela?

AZ: It is a social model that wants to achieve a fairer distribution of the country’s wealth. Meanwhile, 2 million homes have been handed over to the poorer part of the population. Thus at least 8 million persons have benefitted from affordable apartments. There is also the so-called system of CLAP (Comité Local de Abastecimiento y Producción – Local Committee for supply and production), in which the government distributes food parcels to the poor. Those who cannot pay for the packages, receive them for free, of course.

ZiF: What does such a parcel contain?

AZ: I did open one when I was visiting one of the modern and very clean “Urbanizaciones” (government housing for the poor). There are 16 kg of food in it: sugar, rice, cooking oil, flour, cornmeal, milk powder, etc. A family gets such a parcel twice a month. Therefore, there is no “famine” in Venezuela, despite media reports and generalizations. There is, however, a shortage in several sectors, and some products are hard to get, but the population does not suffer from hunger as for example in many countries of Africa and Asia – or even in the favelas of São Paolo and other urban areas in Brazil and other Latin American countries.

There are mainly problems in the timely distribution of imported products – but this is predominantly the responsibility of the private sector, which often enough deliberately boycotts the distribution, sometimes stocks products in large warehouses and then takes them to the black market instead of delivering them to supermarkets — just to make a higher profit.

ZiF: What is special about the “Bolivarian Revolution”?

AZ: It is an alternative model to capitalism, to unregulated free market economics. It is not “Marxism”, and certainly not “Marxism-Leninism”. It is an attempt to give the capitalist system a humane face. Since 1999, when Hugo Chávez came to power, a certain reorientation of the country took place, which could set a precedent for Latin America and many developing economies.

There are major achievements, which the mainstream media systematically ignores – e.g. illiteracy was eliminated within shortest time (as was the case in Castro’s Cuba). School education is free, from kindergarten to university. There is a system of free medical care, a system of support for young mothers, a major effort at building affordable housing and expanding the public transport system.

ZiF: Today, if you read the New York Times or “inform” yourself about Venezuela on CNN or UN Watch etc., you repeatedly come across the concept of a “humanitarian crisis”.

AZ: I warn against this technical term, because a “humanitarian crisis” can be easily exploited to justify a so-called “humanitarian intervention” or to aim at a “regime change”, under the pretext that the government lets the population starve.

Some states pretend that the Venezuelan government can no longer guarantee the rights of the people. Hence, a humanitarian crisis emerged and now they want to intervene militarily to “save” the Venezuelan people from a failed socialist experiment.
"You assist an unjust administration most effectively by obeying its orders and decrees. [...] A good person will resist an evil system with his whole soul. Disobedience of the laws of an evil state is therefore a duty."
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Lurk

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Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
« Reply #105 on: February 26, 2019, 12:36:35 PM »
 US issues fresh Venezuela-related sanctions after VP Pence affirms Washington’s support for Guaido
Published time: 25 Feb, 2019

Former Venezuelan vice president Ramon Carrizales and former minister of defense Jorge Garcia Carneiro have both been added to the list, along with Socialist Party politicians Rafael Lacava and Omar Prieto.

Hours earlier, Venezuelan Foreign Minister Jorge Arreaza blasted US actions on Monday and blamed his country’s economic problems on the US financial blockade and economic warfare

Pence also announced other restrictions: “As of today the US will impose additional new sanctions on regimes officials, including three border state governors linked to the weekend violence,” he said.

    Pence at Lima Group meeting on Venezuela: Threats and more targeted sanctions agains Maduro government allies and a lot of blah blah blah. The US and the Venezuelan opposition have no plan to achieve their goal, which is why all their 'false promises' could result in violence.
    — Eva Golinger (@evagolinger) February 25, 2019

Top Venezuelan figures already under US restrictions include Vice President Delcy Rodriguez, Defense Minister Vladimir Padrino Lopez, and Maduro's wife Cilia Adela Flores de Maduro.

But Washington’s sanctions are not just about individuals. The US has been steadily tightening economic sanctions on Venezuela in recent months and in January the Trump administration imposed sanctions on state oil giant PDVSA, freezing $7 billion of the company’s assets. All this added a negative effect to the nation’s wealth in general.

Despite this, independent journalists who have traveled to Venezuela have reported less chaos than has been depicted by Western media.

https://www.rt.com/news/452384-washington-fresh-venezuela-sanctions/

https://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/sanctions/OFAC-Enforcement/Pages/20190225.aspx
"You assist an unjust administration most effectively by obeying its orders and decrees. [...] A good person will resist an evil system with his whole soul. Disobedience of the laws of an evil state is therefore a duty."
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Lurk

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Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
« Reply #106 on: February 26, 2019, 12:54:36 PM »
Here's a list of what I think are the most informative and most accurate videos about Venezuela at present. Copy and paste the [ urls ] into your browser

The Coup in Venezuela, Explained
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STcepwXxwWA]

An Ocean of Lies on Venezuela: Abby Martin & UN Rapporteur Expose Coup
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ii5MlQgGXyk]

This Is Not Humanitarian Aid:
A Maduro Critic in Venezuela Slams U.S. Plan to Push Regime Change
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PH3AfGO-RvU]

The Coup Has Failed & Now the U.S. Is Looking to Wage War:
Venezuelan Foreign Minister Speaks Out
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dim9uOsDuI]

Caracas Reporter Says: ‘US Plot in Venezuela failing’
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t45QYujLAWo]

Investigating Venezuela's 'humanitarian crisis':
Max Blumenthal tours a supermarket in Caracas
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbXqGiNlWWw]

The real Venezuela: From Caracas, Prof. Aline Piva explains US coup attempt
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mRwrHO4Zi1g]

Venezuela, Maduro and Latin America (The History Boys)
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r05IcTGYL_I]

George Galloway on Venezuela (An appeal to Empathy and Justice)
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jsci1IJpG5M]

Noam Chomsky - History of US Rule in Latin America
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKwJI9axblQ]


I suspect the next thread is likely to be titled "The Venezuelan War"
"You assist an unjust administration most effectively by obeying its orders and decrees. [...] A good person will resist an evil system with his whole soul. Disobedience of the laws of an evil state is therefore a duty."
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Lurk

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Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
« Reply #107 on: February 26, 2019, 02:47:39 PM »
A little snippet for our Russian 'partners'

US amasses special ops in Puerto Rico, army in Colombia to oust Maduro – Russian Security Council - Published time: 26 Feb, 2019

Nikolay Patrushev: “We are ready for dialogue with the USA”  02/26/2019
The focus of the Security Council of the Russian Federation is foreign policy crises that may affect Russia. AiF discussed with Security Council Secretary Nikolai Patrushev where threats could come from.

Q: - Probably, the question that worries many today is the future of Venezuela. What is behind the attempts to render humanitarian aid to this country - concern for the Venezuelan people or the beginning of military intervention?

A: - The difficult humanitarian situation to which Washington refers is precisely triggered by US sanctions and an embargo. And in these conditions, humanitarian aid is being imposed. It is assumed that it will be rejected.

By showing sarcasm and arrogance towards the Venezuelan people, the United States is preparing a military invasion of an independent state. The transfer of American special operations forces to Puerto Rico, the landing of US forces in Colombia and other facts clearly indicate that the Pentagon is reinforcing the grouping of troops in the region in order to engage the legally elected incumbent President Maduro. And the Venezuelan people understand this well. Hence, such a reaction, the refusal to accept the goods from the aggressor country and the support of its president.

You can also add that the Americans offered to hold us separate consultations on Venezuelan issues. We agreed. However, after that they, under far-fetched pretexts, move away from holding them, each time postponing the agreed dates.


https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.aif.ru%2Fpolitics%2Fworld%2Fnikolay_patrushev_k_dialogu_s_ssha_my_gotovy

Original http://www.aif.ru/politics/world/nikolay_patrushev_k_dialogu_s_ssha_my_gotovy

via RT https://www.rt.com/news/452431-venezuela-us-oust-maduro/
"You assist an unjust administration most effectively by obeying its orders and decrees. [...] A good person will resist an evil system with his whole soul. Disobedience of the laws of an evil state is therefore a duty."
Mahatma Gandhi - Non-Violent Resistance

Pmt111500

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Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
« Reply #108 on: February 26, 2019, 03:01:27 PM »
RE: Oil production falling.

How stupid would a country have to be to produce and sell oil if there are no reliable customers?
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Lurk

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Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
« Reply #109 on: February 27, 2019, 05:46:35 AM »
Venezuela set for more false flags… US puppet Guaido better watch his back.
Finian Cunningham
Published time: 26 Feb, 2019

What could such a shocking event entail? Somebody is telling the Lima Group that Guaido and his family are in grave danger of being assassinated. Guaido’s Popular Will party is known to engage in violent subversion and allegedly has links to the American CIA, as reported by Abby Martin and others.

As easily as they are lionized, US puppets can be just as easily disposed of. Guaido playing the dirty game of regime change with the most criminal organization in the world – the US government – is a very dangerous game. He’d better watch his back.


https://www.rt.com/op-ed/452490-venezuela-guaido-us-false-flag/
"You assist an unjust administration most effectively by obeying its orders and decrees. [...] A good person will resist an evil system with his whole soul. Disobedience of the laws of an evil state is therefore a duty."
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Lurk

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Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
« Reply #110 on: February 27, 2019, 06:07:11 AM »
RE: Oil production falling.

How stupid would a country have to be to produce and sell oil if there are no reliable customers?

That's a sensible question. :)

The following may all be lies because it's from a Russian funded news service - and everyone  needs to know all Russians are habitual liars who cannot be trusted on anything. It's a DNA hereditary thing some guy in Washington said. (Clapper or the other one?)

Maybe check in with CNN, Bellingcat and the White House before presuming the data is true. (grin)

 Tankers loaded with 8.36 million barrels of crude are reportedly floating off the Venezuelan coast as the sanction-hit country struggles to find buyers for its oil.

The crude is worth upwards of half-a-billion dollars, according to shipping reports and ship-tracking data compiled by Bloomberg. An armada of 16 ships holds cargoes belonging to state oil company Petroleos de Venezuela SA (PDVSA), Chevron, Valero Energy and Rosneft Oil.

Sources told Bloomberg that oil ventures owned by PDVSA with Rosneft, Chevron, Total SA and Equinor ASA, whose upgraders convert tar-like Venezuelan crude into oil that refineries can process, reduced rates this week because they ran out of space to store crude. PDVSA had to put some of that oil onto tankers to clear space and continue to operate at lower rates.

Shipments to the United States, once Venezuela’s largest customer, have dried up, so that the South American nation had to turn its focus to other consumers, including China and India. Imports of Venezuela’s oil by India surged 66 percent in the first half of February to 620,000 barrels a day.

A person with knowledge of the situation said the PDVSA-Rosneft joint-venture, Petromonagas upgrader, isn’t processing oil after running out of space to store their production.

PDVSA-Chevron’s Petropiar venture has reduced output for the same reason, according to sources. They also said that Petrocedeno, a PDVSA-Total-Equinor venture, is running out of oil to process as a ban on sales of heavy naphtha to PDVSA has made it difficult to ship the heavy oil through pipelines from inland fields to the upgrader.

https://www.rt.com/business/452469-venezuela-oil-store-sanctions/
"You assist an unjust administration most effectively by obeying its orders and decrees. [...] A good person will resist an evil system with his whole soul. Disobedience of the laws of an evil state is therefore a duty."
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Lurk

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Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
« Reply #111 on: February 27, 2019, 07:08:16 AM »
NEWS FROM VENEZUELA TODAY FEBRUARY 23, 2019 ✅ LAST News today

Chavez leader Diosdado Cabello said Friday that former military counter intelligence leader Hugo Carvajal, who yesterday recognized Deputy Juan Guaidó as interim president of Venezuela, "negotiated" with the United States, a country that had requested it (accused him) for drug trafficking.

"We are not surprised, Carvajal has been gone for a long time, who is capable of negotiating with imperialism," Cabello told reporters from the Táchira state, where a concert against the entry of humanitarian aid is held. Colombian city from Cúcuta to Venezuela.

"I do not know how they do it because he is accused in the United States of drug trafficking (...), I assure you that now the crimes he has in the United States will be forgiven and they will open the doors to him, that is the immorality of US imperialism," he said Barbello the president of the pro-government National Constituent Assembly of Venezuela (ANC).

Alguien habla español aqui?

"You assist an unjust administration most effectively by obeying its orders and decrees. [...] A good person will resist an evil system with his whole soul. Disobedience of the laws of an evil state is therefore a duty."
Mahatma Gandhi - Non-Violent Resistance

Lurk

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Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
« Reply #112 on: February 27, 2019, 07:11:57 AM »
Venezuelan President Nicolas #Maduro announced he has decided to break all ties with the "fascist government of #Colombia" and gave Colombian ambassadors 24 hours to leave #Venezuela, while speaking at a rally in Caracas on Saturday (23 Feb 2019)







List of what I think are the most informative and most accurate videos about Venezuela
https://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php/topic,2571.msg190178.html#msg190178
"You assist an unjust administration most effectively by obeying its orders and decrees. [...] A good person will resist an evil system with his whole soul. Disobedience of the laws of an evil state is therefore a duty."
Mahatma Gandhi - Non-Violent Resistance

Lurk

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Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
« Reply #113 on: February 27, 2019, 07:16:37 AM »
Text and videos from the Real News Network Baltimore ( not Russian Bots - grin )

The “Permanent War State” Aims to Plunder Venezuela – Wilkerson and Jay
February 26, 2019   

Trump promises “democracy and freedom” to Venezuela, delivered by Elliott Abrams who brought you illegal wars, coups, and support for dictatorships; and Mike Pompeo and VP Pence, both with deep ties to the Koch brothers who need Venezuelan heavy crude to feed their Texas refinery – Col. Larry Wilkerson joins TRNN’s Paul Jay
https://therealnews.com/stories/the-permanent-war-state-aims-to-plunder-venezuela-wilkerson-and-jay

Is Participatory Democracy the Solution to Venezuela’s Crisis?
February 25, 2019   

Atenea Jimenez, speaker of a Network of Communes in Venezuela, says that grassroots, collective decision-making is the key to solving Venezuela’s crisis
https://therealnews.com/stories/is-participatory-democracy-the-solution-to-venezuelas-crisis


Massive Protest 'demonstration-of-solidarity' in Support of the Bolivarian Revolution Largely Ignored - Maduro speaks in Public to crowd of ~100,000 (? ? I have no idea how accurate that is)
Published on 25 Feb 2019

While the world’s attention was focused on the Venezuelan opposition, as it tried to transport US aid into Venezuela against the government’s will, a major protest took place in Caracas that was opposed to US intervention in Venezuela.
 


It would be better to find an original video in full of this demonstration and speeches - I will try.
"You assist an unjust administration most effectively by obeying its orders and decrees. [...] A good person will resist an evil system with his whole soul. Disobedience of the laws of an evil state is therefore a duty."
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Rob Dekker

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Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
« Reply #114 on: February 27, 2019, 09:55:58 AM »
RE: Oil production falling.

How stupid would a country have to be to produce and sell oil if there are no reliable customers?

Lurk produces so much FUD on this thread that it's hard to get some basic data and reason across.

Let me try again :

Venezuela provides oil to the world market.
That market is pretty reliable, currently consuming about 93 million barrels per day.

Venezuela currently produces a bit more than 1 million barrels per day. You think they can't find any customers for that ?

The problem (of the decline) is in production. Venezuela under Maduro simply did not invest in maintenance of their oil production and refinement industry. Which caused it to decline.
EIA states this :

https://www.eia.gov/beta/international/analysis.php?iso=VEN

Quote
Reduced capital expenditures by state–owned oil and natural gas company Petròleos de Venezuela, S.A. (PdVSA) are resulting in foreign partners continuing to cut activities in the oil sector, making crude oil production losses increasingly widespread. With Venezuela’s heavy dependency on the oil industry, the country’s economy will likely continue to shrink, and that the runaway inflation will remain the mainstay at least in the short term.

Venezuela's main customers are China, India and the US.

Of these, the US has been very reliable, even AFTER the recent (Jan 2019) sanctions against Venezuelan oil industry. For example, in the week ending 2/15 (AFTER the sanctions), US imported 558 k barrels/day (3.9 million barrels for the week) of Venezuelan oil, which is pretty typical over the past couple of years :

https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=PET&s=W_EPC0_IM0_NUS-NVE_MBBLD&f=W

Finally, in terms of payments, China and Russia seems to have more of a stranglehold on Venezuela than the US does, and the US seems to be the one still paying in cash :

EIA:

Quote
Venezuela’s revenue from oil exports is severely constricted because only about half of the exports generate cash revenues. U.S. refiners are among the few customers that still remit cash payments. The remaining crude oil exports are sold domestically at a loss or sent as loan repayments to China and Russia (the repayments to Russia are sent to Nayara Energy’s (formerly Essar) Vadinar refinery in India to service debt that Venezuela owes to Russian oil company Rosneft, the co–owner of the Vadinar refinery).

Which explains why Russia has such a strong interest in keeping Maduro in power.
Even to the point where they send in Russian contract soldiers (from Prigozhin's Wagner group) into Venezuela (the actual military intervention that nobody talks about) to protect Maduro :

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jan/25/venezuela-maduro-russia-private-security-contractors
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Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
« Reply #115 on: February 27, 2019, 10:09:09 AM »
So, Rob, are you with Trump or with Putin on this one?  ;D

Trump. Putin. Maduro.

Three autocrats in charge of :

- The biggest oil producing country in the world, and
- The biggest oil exporting country in the world, and
- The biggest oil reserves in the world.

I don't like either of these guys.
Not just because they are autocrats, but also because they will die before they would do anything about our addiction to fossil fuels.

Nice dodge, Rob. You're with Trump on this one. And with Bolton and Abrams and all the other neocon SOBs that should've been put on some Nuremberg-type trials a long time ago. But Trump is Putin's puppet, so you're basically a Kremlinbot.

Good luck with the cognitive dissonance.

Quote
Here is my plan for Trump, Putin and Maduro :

I would like all three of these autocrats in the US, Russia and Venezuela and their administrations OUT, and replaced by democratically elected progressive governments who will actually DO recognize the threat of climate change and ACT to phase out fossil fuels over the next few decades.

And you want to do all of that in undemocratic ways to further promote neoliberal globalism. Ever heard of unintended consequences?

Venezuela needs to be left alone by the US and Russia and everybody else, sanctions need to be lifted immediately, diplomacy restored, and the media needs to stop this excessively riling sensationalism, especially if it's promoting misinformation (which is copied verbatim and uncritically in Austrian newspapers, I saw on Monday).
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Rob Dekker

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Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
« Reply #116 on: February 27, 2019, 10:12:43 AM »
So, Rob, are you with Trump or with Putin on this one?  ;D

Trump. Putin. Maduro.

Three autocrats in charge of :

- The biggest oil producing country in the world, and
- The biggest oil exporting country in the world, and
- The biggest oil reserves in the world.

I don't like either of these guys.
Not just because they are autocrats, but also because they will die before they would do anything about our addiction to fossil fuels.

Nice dodge, Rob. You're with Trump on this one. And with Bolton and Abrams and all the other neocon SOBs that should've been put on some Nuremberg-type trials a long time ago. But Trump is Putin's puppet, so you're basically a Kremlinbot.

I've been called an "eco-terrorist" and a "neocon", a "neo-liberal" and a host of other names.
But never, ever, a "Kremlinbot". That's a first, Neven, and I'm really not sure I follow your reasoning on how you got there, especially since I tend to expose what Russia is DOING rather than what they are SAYING.

Like sending Wagner Group into Venezuela.
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Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
« Reply #117 on: February 27, 2019, 10:14:02 AM »
RE: Oil production falling.

How stupid would a country have to be to produce and sell oil if there are no reliable customers?

Lurk produces so much FUD on this thread that it's hard to get some basic data and reason across.

Oh Pulease get rational one day soon. What a dumb comment. Take responsibility for your own comments, data and refs and stop blaming other people for it being so "hard." You poor oppressed soul.
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Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
« Reply #118 on: February 27, 2019, 10:20:52 AM »
I've been called an "eco-terrorist" and a "neocon", a "neo-liberal" and a host of other names.
But never, ever, a "Kremlinbot". That's a first, Neven, and I'm really not sure I follow your reasoning on how you got there, especially since I tend to expose what Russia is DOING rather than what they are SAYING.

Because you're with the Putin puppet that is pushing for covert regime change to destroy yet another country. If you're with the Putin puppet on such an illegal and immoral undertaking, you're obviously a Kremlinbot.
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Rob Dekker

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Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
« Reply #119 on: February 27, 2019, 10:26:14 AM »
Quote
Here is my plan for Trump, Putin and Maduro :

I would like all three of these autocrats in the US, Russia and Venezuela and their administrations OUT, and replaced by democratically elected progressive governments who will actually DO recognize the threat of climate change and ACT to phase out fossil fuels over the next few decades.

And you want to do all of that in undemocratic ways to further promote neoliberal globalism. Ever heard of unintended consequences?

I'm not sure what's going on here.

Didn't I just write : "and replaced by democratically elected progressive governments " ?

If you can agree that that is what I just wrote, why do you say : "And you want to do all of that in undemocratic ways to further promote neoliberal globalism" ?

What's going on here ?
« Last Edit: February 27, 2019, 10:45:50 AM by Rob Dekker »
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Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
« Reply #120 on: February 27, 2019, 10:41:54 AM »
OK, so here is a normal everyday person / pro-Chavistas from Venezuela. She comes across (to me) as both educated and intelligent. Plus down to earth.

Via Real News already posted above with video
- Is Participatory Democracy the Solution to Venezuela's Crisis? -
https://therealnews.com/stories/is-participatory-democracy-the-solution-to-venezuelas-crisis

Listen to the question from @ 03:00

I am editing some of the text translation from the website/video because imho it is not correct in places - for original Spanish use the YouTube transcript.

Quote
Atenea Jimenez: Our position, now, before he even assumes the presidency. There are already happening very dangerous things for the spokesmen, men and women for popular power. In the neighborhoods we’ve already had confrontations between opposition members and CLAPand Communal Council representatives.

We’ve had to evacuate our fellows because their lives were in danger.

We are not talking about the future. Right now we already have conflicts in the communities, as you can imagine, the Commune is made of smaller communities, where there is opposition to us, there are all kinds of political stances.

At the moment of Guaido’s self proclamation, there was a moment of victory for the opposition, which generates more confrontation within the people’s ranks. We are worried about this, because no one is paying attention or doing anything about it, amid the current larger political crisis, between the government and the opposition.

Our people, the Communas’s spokespeople, have been confronted in the neighborhoods, and even in rural areas. They have been threatened. It needs to be recognized the fact that there are communal lands which are still in dispute, farmers’s lands that are in dispute. And the larger contradictions and crisis have intensified such disputes.

And no one is attending to that, because there is a terrible ungovernability because of issues with police and district attorneys’ offices and institutionality in general. So as of now our people are more vulnerable than ever.

The biggest fear of all is that a self-proclamation of a president nobody voted for is legitimized.

If these kinds of things are happening now it is a risky situation in which, as Communa spokespeople, we all fear that Guaido gets confirmed as president because there would be a lack of guarantees for us to do our political job.

But in the context of the political dispute, the government has not assumed the defense of representatives, like those of CLAP and Network of Communers, in the field, where an opposition activist (thug?) may unleash on them their hatred against Maduro.

Those are the risks that as defenders of the people we run into every day.

@6:03
Dimitri Lascaris: The narrative that we hear in the West, particularly in the United States, but also in other Western countries, like Canada, from political leaders on the right and also from the corporate media is that fundamentally, Venezuela’s problems stem from the fact that it is a socialist system, and it’s governed by a brutal dictator. Is that—is there any truth to that narrative, in your view? And if not, what do you think that Canadians and Americans and Europeans need to understand about what is really happening here?

Atenea Jimenez: The first thing is that in Venezuela "Socialism" does not exist. We have been constructing a State of SOCIAL Justice and Equality. We have been building it, despite an international blockade, despite (a War against Venezuela) by the great Imperialistic powers trying to enter Venezuela for 20 years now.

We have a democracy that mixes (protagonist) representative democracy with participative democracy.

But what "reigns" supreme" is a capitalist system - that remains dependent on minerals, oil, and lately gold extraction.

Really, no no no, we can not say that we are under a Dictatorship because there is a socialist system, because it is not True!

Popular / communal councils and communes they are an expression of direct power of direct democracy and popular power, an exercise of citizen power where people in a community express what their projects and their priorities are and will be.

Before Chavez that was just not possible. You elected a congressman or representative and he got to decide which projects were the priorities of that community. But now people can decide for themselves in popular assemblies. This obviously is a permanent construction / situation now.

So what has failed is the capitalist dependent system, which we all have the automatic responsibility to make or break. That is what we as popular power have been proposing for a while now; how to organize our people, our productive working people, our indigenous and farmers organized to rule themselves.
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Rob Dekker

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Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
« Reply #121 on: February 27, 2019, 10:52:01 AM »
RE: Oil production falling.

How stupid would a country have to be to produce and sell oil if there are no reliable customers?

Lurk produces so much FUD on this thread that it's hard to get some basic data and reason across.

Oh Pulease get rational one day soon. What a dumb comment. Take responsibility for your own comments, data and refs and stop blaming other people for it being so "hard." You poor oppressed soul.

Oh. Thanks Lurk. That's so nice of you. And yes, I do feel oppressed, with Neven moderating every post I write.
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Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
« Reply #122 on: February 27, 2019, 10:57:06 AM »

Even to the point where they send in Russian contract soldiers (from Prigozhin's Wagner group) into Venezuela (the actual military intervention that nobody talks about) to protect Maduro :

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jan/25/venezuela-maduro-russia-private-security-contractors

But but but Putin Puppet Donald Trump said Maduro was protected by Cuban Special Forces? He didn't trust his own military was the claim there. Maybe it's both Russian and Cuban? Maybe the Iranian Republican Guard is there too but the US and The Guardian do not know that yet? (smile)

Did the Guardian report about the new arrivals of US troops & equipment and Special Forces and CIA Military Ops people in staging the "US defence forces" in Columbia and Costa Rica (or was that Puerto Rico) ?

What about the Israeli SAS Forces who are staging in Brazil - been there for over a week now, maybe two already? Did they mention them too?

Go hard with your "distraction" techniques. What a pity you didn't start your own Venezuela thread in January - given you seem to see yourself as an expert on it, on the truth and the facts. Good luck with that. And goods luck with catching up - in full - on all the content already posted here along with the large amount of material in the refs linked to

Do you have any questions perhaps? :)
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Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
« Reply #123 on: February 27, 2019, 11:05:46 AM »
https://therealnews.com/stories/is-participatory-democracy-the-solution-to-venezuelas-crisis

Quote
Atenea Jimenez, speaker of a Network of Communes in Venezuela, says that grassroots, collective decision-making is the key to solving Venezuela’s crisis

Lurk, do you agree ?
If so, which decisions do you think the Venezuelan people need to make ?
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Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
« Reply #124 on: February 27, 2019, 11:17:08 AM »

Even to the point where they send in Russian contract soldiers (from Prigozhin's Wagner group) into Venezuela (the actual military intervention that nobody talks about) to protect Maduro :

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jan/25/venezuela-maduro-russia-private-security-contractors

But but but Putin Puppet Donald Trump said Maduro was protected by Cuban Special Forces? He didn't trust his own military was the claim there. Maybe it's both Russian and Cuban? Maybe the Iranian Republican Guard is there too but the US and The Guardian do not know that yet? (smile)

Mmmm. Let's see. Cubans and Iranians too ?

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-venezuela-politics-russia-exclusive/exclusive-kremlin-linked-contractors-help-guard-venezuelas-maduro-sources-idUSKCN1PJ22M

Nope.

Just Prigozhin's Russian Wagner Group went to Venezuela to protect Maduro.

Quote
Russia, which has backed Maduro’s socialist government to the tune of billions of dollars, this week promised to stand by him ...

Yeah. Doesn't surprise me since Maduro owes the Russians big money :

EIA stated :

Quote
Venezuela’s revenue from oil exports is severely constricted because only about half of the exports generate cash revenues. U.S. refiners are among the few customers that still remit cash payments. The remaining crude oil exports are sold domestically at a loss or sent as loan repayments to China and Russia (the repayments to Russia are sent to Nayara Energy’s (formerly Essar) Vadinar refinery in India to service debt that Venezuela owes to Russian oil company Rosneft, the co–owner of the Vadinar refinery).
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Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
« Reply #125 on: February 27, 2019, 11:40:37 AM »
Did the Guardian report about the new arrivals of US troops & equipment and Special Forces and CIA Military Ops people in staging the "US defence forces" in Columbia and Costa Rica (or was that Puerto Rico) ?

So what was it. Colombia, Costa Rica or Puerto Rico ?

Quote
What about the Israeli SAS Forces who are staging in Brazil - been there for over a week now, maybe two already? Did they mention them too?

You mean these guys ? :

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Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
« Reply #126 on: February 27, 2019, 11:59:01 AM »
I've been called an "eco-terrorist" and a "neocon", a "neo-liberal" and a host of other names.
But never, ever, a "Kremlinbot". That's a first, Neven, and I'm really not sure I follow your reasoning on how you got there, especially since I tend to expose what Russia is DOING rather than what they are SAYING.

Because you're with the Putin puppet that is pushing for covert regime change to destroy yet another country. If you're with the Putin puppet on such an illegal and immoral undertaking, you're obviously a Kremlinbot.

Geez, Neven. What did I ever do wrong to you ?

<You endlessly parrot establishment conditioning/propaganda and are blind to all the contradictions you put yourself in. Don't act as if you're in the minority; N.>
« Last Edit: February 27, 2019, 12:22:28 PM by Neven »
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Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
« Reply #127 on: February 27, 2019, 01:12:20 PM »
I've been called an "eco-terrorist" and a "neocon", a "neo-liberal" and a host of other names.
But never, ever, a "Kremlinbot". That's a first, Neven, and I'm really not sure I follow your reasoning on how you got there, especially since I tend to expose what Russia is DOING rather than what they are SAYING.

Because you're with the Putin puppet that is pushing for covert regime change to destroy yet another country. If you're with the Putin puppet on such an illegal and immoral undertaking, you're obviously a Kremlinbot.

Geez, Neven. What did I ever do wrong to you ?

<You endlessly parrot establishment conditioning/propaganda and are blind to all the contradictions you put yourself in. Don't act as if you're in the minority; N.>

Sorry, but I'm stating the facts, not propaganda.

If I'm in the minority or not is not really the issue.
The issue is if I'm right or not.

And the fact is that Venezuela got herself into a declining oil production, because Maduro failed to finance the Venezuelan oil industry.



And the fact is that Maduro owns billions of dollars to Russia, which it pays off by providing oil to Nayara Energy’s (formerly Essar) Vadinar refinery in India to service debt that Venezuela owes to Russian oil company Rosneft, the co–owner of the Vadinar refinery).

https://www.eia.gov/beta/international/analysis.php?iso=VEN

And the fact is that Russia provided contract soldiers from the Wagner group (the military intervention that nobody talks about) to Venezuela, to protect Russian interests in Venezuela and the Maduro regime.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-venezuela-politics-russia-exclusive/exclusive-kremlin-linked-contractors-help-guard-venezuelas-maduro-sources-idUSKCN1PJ22M

So, sorry. But you are wrong, and I am not.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2019, 01:29:03 PM by Rob Dekker »
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Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
« Reply #128 on: February 27, 2019, 02:01:29 PM »
You are wrong about supporting covert regime change, and being on the side of Trump and his band of war criminals (which you will probably say aren't war criminals), not about some irrelevant graph.
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Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
« Reply #129 on: February 27, 2019, 03:24:38 PM »
The graph is quite relevant. Venezuela has been falling apart on their own accord for years now. I do not support US-led intervention which makes the current situation difficult to discuss, as the US has obviously decided to stick their foot in (though to what extent remains unknown.) But if you support the Venezuelan people at root, you would also be wishing for Maduro and the PSUV to go. Much better would have been a regional intervention. But just because both sides are wrong doesn't mean I have to throw my lot in with those who for many years have claimed that the CIA gave Chavez cancer. The fundamental problem in Venezuela is the criminal corruption of the PSUV.

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Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
« Reply #130 on: February 27, 2019, 03:48:56 PM »
The graph is quite relevant.

It isn't relevant to my point that Rob always parrots establishment conditioning/propaganda and is blind to all the contradictions he puts himself in. As soon as the mainstream media says 'Look there, a dictator killing his own people', Rob's knee jerks and he immediately selects all necessary facts to make the case that the dictator must be deposed, either covertly or overtly, nio matter the consequences (Iraq, Libya, Syria, Afghanistan, and dozens of other examples from the previous century). And then, when this actually makes him align with Putin's bitch in the White House, he dodges and makes up all kinds of reasons to appear consistent to himself.

Quote
But if you support the Venezuelan people at root, you would also be wishing for Maduro and the PSUV to go.

You need to watch all those videos Lurk has posted, or spend some time at the Real News Network. But even then, the fact that this gets so much attention, while the same could be said about dozens of other countries/regions in the world (that don't have natural resources), is simply ridiculous.

It's very, very simple:

Quote
Venezuela needs to be left alone by the US and Russia and everybody else, sanctions need to be lifted immediately, diplomacy restored, and the media needs to stop this excessively riling sensationalism, especially if it's promoting misinformation (which is copied verbatim and uncritically in Austrian newspapers, I saw on Monday).

To think that installing some Harvard-educated neoliberal CIA spook who only has to proclaim himself president, is going to end corruption and leave fossil fuels in the ground, is childish.
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Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
« Reply #131 on: February 28, 2019, 12:42:35 AM »
https://therealnews.com/stories/is-participatory-democracy-the-solution-to-venezuelas-crisis

Quote
Atenea Jimenez, speaker of a Network of Communes in Venezuela, says that grassroots, collective decision-making is the key to solving Venezuela’s crisis

Lurk, do you agree ?
If so, which decisions do you think the Venezuelan people need to make ?

Rob this is so easy to answer. I think the Venezuelan people need to make the decisions they are going to make in their own self-interest accordoing to their will as displayed to genuine democratic constitiuionla process that occur wihtout violnce or the threat of violnce by partisan extrmeists and terrorist like activities

Even more so to be able to that, to sort out their own "political problems" absent the external threats of military action and absent the oppressive illegal sanctions being imposted by a bunch of corrupt SELF-RIGHTEOUS KNOW IT ALL NARCISSISTIC PATHOLOGICAL Politicians backed in by even more powerful Oligarchs in the USA, Canada, and Europe.... and without paying any attention to those gullible people of this world who support such things and believe it is a) necessary and b) so really cool despite knowing a damned ed thing about Venezuela bar what they are told in the Press and by those corrupt inane Politicians and Officials. 

iow, to put it even more simply, I actually believe in possibilities of Democracy and the Rule of Law - it is you who does not. You still believe in US exceptionalism and your assumed US right to interfere in every other nation on this Earth because YOU always know best. I do not.
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Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
« Reply #132 on: February 28, 2019, 08:35:52 AM »
You guys (Lurk and Neven) seem to think that I am somehow promoting intervention in Venezuela.
Nothing would be further from the truth.

Let me state it clearly : I am absolutely against military intervention in Venezuela.

And also, I'm very confident that there will be no US military intervention in Venezuela.
It would not make ANY sense AT ALL at this point.

So can you guys please stop accusing me ?

Meanwhile, Maduro's policies got Venezuela in deep, deep economical trouble.

The country is already in deep debt (with China and Russia), while the economy is shrinking and it is only getting worse. Here one report I read today :

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-venezuela-gold-exclusive/exclusive-venezuela-removed-8-tons-of-central-bank-gold-last-week-legislator-idUSKCN1QG2QG

Since Venezuela has no more assets, Maduro is now selling the gold from the Venezuelan Central Bank.

Just stop and think about that for a moment.
I am not sure how much of the proceeds from selling gold goes into Maduro's personal pocket, or how much goes back to the Venezuelan people (in the form of buying food and such).

But even if they are selling gold to buy food, you can't do that for very long until the central bank has no more gold left. And what then ?

It's extremely painful to watch this train wreck unfolding, but I fear that this whole situation in Venezuela is not going to end well...




« Last Edit: February 28, 2019, 08:43:19 AM by Rob Dekker »
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Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
« Reply #133 on: February 28, 2019, 08:47:03 AM »
You guys (Lurk and Neven) seem to think that I am somehow promoting intervention in Venezuela.
Nothing would be further from the truth.

Let me state it clearly : I am absolutely against military intervention in Venezuela.

And also, I'm very confident that there will be no US military intervention in Venezuela.
It would not make ANY sense AT ALL at this point.

So can you guys please stop accusing me ?

Aha, so you're with Putin?  ;D
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Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
« Reply #134 on: February 28, 2019, 09:37:18 AM »
Aha, so you're with Putin?  ;D

I've just broken my recent "political" duck by popping in here from the alleged "Algorithms of Hate" thread.

I trust Rob also possesses an extremely dry Anglo Saxon sense of humour?
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Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
« Reply #135 on: February 28, 2019, 11:40:15 AM »
Did the Guardian report about the new arrivals of US troops & equipment and Special Forces and CIA Military Ops people in staging the "US defence forces" in Columbia and Costa Rica (or was that Puerto Rico) ?

So what was it. Colombia, Costa Rica or Puerto Rico ?


My bad .... the news reports said: in Columbia and (Costa Rica or Puerto Rico) for staging purposes. I posted it to the forum. Info overload, I'm not sure which posts. Rica Rico all sound the same to me. It was one of them. ;) 

Quote
What about the Israeli SAS Forces who are staging in Brazil - been there for over a week now, maybe two already? Did they mention them too?

Quote
You mean these guys ?

No. Not those guys :)
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Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
« Reply #136 on: February 28, 2019, 11:52:26 AM »

Even to the point where they send in Russian contract soldiers (from Prigozhin's Wagner group) into Venezuela (the actual military intervention that nobody talks about) to protect Maduro :

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jan/25/venezuela-maduro-russia-private-security-contractors

But but but Putin Puppet Donald Trump said Maduro was protected by Cuban Special Forces? He didn't trust his own military was the claim there. Maybe it's both Russian and Cuban? Maybe the Iranian Republican Guard is there too but the US and The Guardian do not know that yet? (smile)

Mmmm. Let's see. Cubans and Iranians too ?

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-venezuela-politics-russia-exclusive/exclusive-kremlin-linked-contractors-help-guard-venezuelas-maduro-sources-idUSKCN1PJ22M

Nope.

Just Prigozhin's Russian Wagner Group went to Venezuela to protect Maduro.


I quote ref news reports to. But I don't assume they are all true or accurate.

This Reuters has one named source who doesn't even work of Wagner - Yevgeny Shabayev - but knows people who do he 'claims'.

Putin's Press sec. said they have no information about this. There's no 3rd party confirmation. 2 or 3 unnamed sources 'say' is all they have. Wagner don;t confirm it, Venez. Govt doesn't confirm it. The "russian" journalists (like how could you trust them? smile) reported some aircraft traffic. No pics. No data. No witness statements on the record.

The reports about the Isrealies is no better. Which is why I would never argue the point with you or anyone. Just sharing what I know. Which of course is what you - do you trust that Reuters report as accurate that what those Russian sources and journalist say is what has happened, is the question.

And if it is true then what's the problem with having a high end military armed/trained back security team for a President who is being threatened by the most powerful regime change Govt. on earth?  Especially if they were invited in and given approval by the President/Govt. to be there.
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Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
« Reply #137 on: February 28, 2019, 12:12:31 PM »
Lurk, you talk a lot, but say very little.

Whatever. On this topic I think I post a lot and say very little.

Quote
What's your opinion about what should happen in Venezuela right now.

After the removal of the threat of force by the USA, and Guaido wlakig back his self-declaration, then some serious genuine negotiations need to happen while the current Constituion is respected and the Rule of Law prevails. 

Quote
Lander (in your video above) calls for a national referendum.

I think that would be a good first step. Do you agree too ?

I'm unsure. I don't know enough about their situation to judge. I am unsure what the "question" was he wanted to be put. I cannot see it proceeding while Guaido continues his illegal (traitorous ?) activities and speech.

Quote
And if so, do you think that Maduro will agree as well ?

Unless something seriously changes re US aggression and Guaido stance, and the ongoing violent threats and acts by the Opposition "activists/militias" I seriously doubt it.

I would not if I was him. I would seek out reasonable people from the opposition, eg that Professor and the two who also ran for President last year, and see what kind of agreement coalition could be formed to move things forward. But none of them can stop the US aggressive stance or sanctions, nor would the US now willingly lift them - Trump et al have boxed themselves into a corner - while they progressively boxed maduro into a corner.

It is not going to end well. The US does not want it to end well. Therefore it doesn't really matter what Maduro does now. He cannot fix it and he cannot make it any worse.

Venezuela's only hope now is what their allies might do. If I was the head of Cuba, Turkey, India, China, Russia et al I would call the US bluff and send in the military, aircraft and naval ships with hundreds of missiles at the ready to defend the country and to remove the violence at the borders using overwhelming force. But I am a hard ass lefty and not a statesman. 

Quote
Or will Maduro do nothing (except for continuing to print more money) ?

Humourous (?) question doesn't deserve an answer. :)
"You assist an unjust administration most effectively by obeying its orders and decrees. [...] A good person will resist an evil system with his whole soul. Disobedience of the laws of an evil state is therefore a duty."
Mahatma Gandhi - Non-Violent Resistance

Lurk

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Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
« Reply #138 on: February 28, 2019, 01:10:02 PM »
Opinion
Jorge Ramos: The Dictator of Venezuela Earns His Title

Nicolás Maduro stole my television crew’s cameras and expelled me from the country, all because he was afraid of an interview.

By Jorge Ramos

Mr. Ramos is an anchor for the Univision network and the author of “Stranger: The Challenge of a Latino Immigrant in the Trump Era.”

    Feb. 27, 2019

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/27/opinion/jorge-ramos-venezuela.html




Political bias is destroying people’s faith in journalism
By Lara Logan
February 26, 2019

Quote
But on that one night, every week, in that one place, I knew the truth. And no one could take it from me because I learned it first hand.

I do my job today, some 30 years later, the same way I did it then: with an open mind, an open heart and a million questions. There is nothing more human than opinions and bias. To say we have none is dishonest. But what we do have as professional journalists is a simple standard to get us past that: two first-hand sources — question everything and independently verify. I didn’t invent this — I inherited it from people like Edward R. Murrow and I will keep passing it on.

Journalists are not activists. We may share the passion for a particular cause, but our job is to follow the facts wherever they may lead. We can’t ignore something that reflects badly on a noble cause, as an activist might. We have to care about the means as much as the end because our duty is to search for the whole truth.

Nor are we lawyers in a court of law, cherry-picking facts to prove our case. Fortunately, there is only one truth. How we feel about it, how we perceive it, those things are subjective but the truth itself is not.

Above all, we are not propagandists or political operatives. That is not our job.

https://nypost.com/2019/02/26/political-bias-is-destroying-peoples-faith-in-journalism/
"You assist an unjust administration most effectively by obeying its orders and decrees. [...] A good person will resist an evil system with his whole soul. Disobedience of the laws of an evil state is therefore a duty."
Mahatma Gandhi - Non-Violent Resistance

Lurk

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Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
« Reply #139 on: February 28, 2019, 01:27:38 PM »
February 28, 2019   

In an affluent part of Caracas, TRNN Correspondent Dimitri Lascaris discusses Venezuela’s crisis with ordinary Venezuelans

Q. What do you think is the best way out of this crisis?


"You assist an unjust administration most effectively by obeying its orders and decrees. [...] A good person will resist an evil system with his whole soul. Disobedience of the laws of an evil state is therefore a duty."
Mahatma Gandhi - Non-Violent Resistance

b_lumenkraft

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Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
« Reply #140 on: February 28, 2019, 05:17:56 PM »
Not 100% on topic but relevant to the debate here.

Loaded: A Disarming History of the 2nd Amendment - Review



Neven

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Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
« Reply #141 on: February 28, 2019, 11:37:40 PM »
Quote
That's something you really won't know if you watch US media on Venezuela.

Il faut comparer, comparer, comparer, et cultiver notre jardin

Rob Dekker

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Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
« Reply #142 on: March 01, 2019, 04:41:28 AM »
Quote
That's something you really won't know if you watch US media on Venezuela.

Key in this video is at 3:00.
Turns out Max Blumenthal had to pay in cash dollars.

Normal working Venezuelans get their salaries paid in Bolívar, which is worth not much more than the paper it's printed on. Hyperinflation KILLS the income of average citizens in Venezuela. And that is a direct result of Maduro simply printing money.

THAT is the problem. And THAT is why Venezuelans go hungry while Max Blumenthal shops in a dollar store.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2019, 04:46:58 AM by Rob Dekker »
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Rob Dekker

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Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
« Reply #143 on: March 01, 2019, 04:51:52 AM »
Aha, so you're with Putin?  ;D

I've just broken my recent "political" duck by popping in here from the alleged "Algorithms of Hate" thread.

I trust Rob also possesses an extremely dry Anglo Saxon sense of humour?

Nice to see you here, Jim !

Yeah, I often get used as a punching bag here on the political threads, but I don't take anything personal. So I'm cool. Even though Neven moderates every one of my posts.  >:(

I would love to have the dry Anglo Saxon sense of humour you possess, but unfortunately I don't have any sense of humor that I'm aware of.   ;D
« Last Edit: March 01, 2019, 09:23:05 AM by Rob Dekker »
This is our planet. This is our time.
Let's not waste either.

Lurk

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Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
« Reply #144 on: March 01, 2019, 05:50:00 AM »
Quote
That's something you really won't know if you watch US media on Venezuela.

with Jimmy Dore Video

Transcript at the end-


14:35 "..... so there's the Washington Post
CNN every goddamn news station printing
pure propaganda pushing pure propaganda.

and now you know why they smear us you
know why the Washington Post put me in a
smear article now you know why CNN put
me in a smear article - a little jag off
comedian C student in his fucking garage
why -


because no one else is gonna tell
you the truth -- certainly not our
politicians and certainly not conspiracy
cowards like Rachel Maddow and friend
and people everybody at CNN that's not
gonna happen.




Unsurprisingly my other thread got derailed before I got seriously started.
I concur with having it closed.
But here's my very last word.
Then I leave Neven rot in the polit cesspit he has created.

----------------------

Vandana is both right and wrong on Obama/Copenhagen/Paris. (Thanks, SteveMDFP.)  I bet she understands that (as she knows some quantum mechanics).

I can still listen to her because she is not thinking out of her guts, but instead tries to get things right.  Unlike e.g. Jimmy Dore her motivation is not hate and polit grandstanding. Apropos:

To Neven,
I've watched enough crooked Hillary smear and hate ever since she got FLOTUS and tried health care reform. You are way deeper in the GOP trap than you seem to be able to imagine.  Polit Dunning-Krüger.  You are dangerously silly.

~~~
On to greener fields of discourse.

Such are the effects of Cognitive Dissonance and the Dunning--Krüger effect. It's always the other person who has the problem. (sigh)

I only partially agree with Martin's concluding "utterance of Hate" Neven. You are not "silly" but you're ideas, beliefs, values and facts are very "dangerous" to the present consensus "system."
"You assist an unjust administration most effectively by obeying its orders and decrees. [...] A good person will resist an evil system with his whole soul. Disobedience of the laws of an evil state is therefore a duty."
Mahatma Gandhi - Non-Violent Resistance

Lurk

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Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
« Reply #145 on: March 01, 2019, 06:36:30 AM »
What Does Venezuela Tell Us About Socialism in the USA? – with Paul Jay
February 27, 2019   

According to Trump, the crisis in a small country with an oil based economy, facing onerous sanctions, discredits the progressive socialist movement in the United States –  Paul Jay joins host Jacqueline Luqman

website transcript
https://therealnews.com/stories/what-does-venezuela-tell-us-about-socialism-in-the-usa-with-paul-jay

"You assist an unjust administration most effectively by obeying its orders and decrees. [...] A good person will resist an evil system with his whole soul. Disobedience of the laws of an evil state is therefore a duty."
Mahatma Gandhi - Non-Violent Resistance

Lurk

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Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
« Reply #146 on: March 01, 2019, 06:53:47 AM »
What Does Venezuela Tell Us About Socialism in the USA? – with Paul Jay
February 27, 2019   

A quoted section @ 3:30

Quote
PAUL JAY: Diversified forms of public ownership and workers collectives. But if you’re going to break down the power of the oligarchy, you’ve got to start working at a scale that really challenges them, particularly in the banking sector. That’s kind of another conversation from Venezuela, but just to say what could be done here. The Venezuelan experience doesn’t teach us that much, except maybe the forms of people’s democracy and the fact that a very progressive government came to power there.

Now, that being said, we should never underestimate that this is the heart of the empire. What’s possible in a small Latin American country, or even in Bolivia… Brazil was the biggest country to kind of go down that road, but you can see the external pressure the Brazilians were under in spite of the fact how Lula and the PT, to a large extent, played ball with global finance. Even there, even the modest reforms, in some way, that were being done in Brazil was too much. As soon as there was a weakness in Lula and the PT, they go for the jugular and get rid of them so they can have a more overt, reactionary type of exploitation.

What’s possible here, who knows? What I mean by who knows in this, you get these weird moments in history. Like even Chavez, it was a weird moment in history, where a charismatic guy shows up, the mass movement’s at a certain level, the Venezuelan economy was in trouble, it wasn’t la la land the way the media is talking about it. You get these weird convergences of moments. And we may get one.

This 2020 election might turn out to be that. Because if people start to understand how severe the threat of climate change is, to elect another climate denier or climate denier enabler, which is to a large extent what the corporate Dems were, because you pay lip service to the threat of climate, but you don’t really do anything about it.

JACQUELINE LUQMAN: They say, “We must do something about climate, but they don’t actually do anything about it.”

PAUL JAY: I went back and looked at Obama’s State of the Union messages. I looked at every State of the Union message to look what he said about climate. It was like, at best, a paragraph or two in a grocery list of all kinds of things, and it’s usually buried half way down his grocery list. One State of the Union didn’t even mention climate, like zero. And together with corporate media that barely covers the issue, I mean these are the people that enable a climate denier to get elected president.

JACQUELINE LUQMAN: But President Obama signed the Paris accord! Wasn’t that great, wasn’t that progress?

PAUL JAY: I mean, compared to Trump, maybe. But a study came out from seven of the leading climate scientists last fall that said if every country that signed the Paris Accord fulfilled all their pledges one hundred percent, we’re still going to cross the two degree threshold that’s a critical warming threshold by the year 2050. That Paris Accord was so far from what was needed and it wasn’t obligatory. So it’s not so hard to sign. The interesting thing is, and I mentioned this in an earlier interview I did, everyone’s talking about socialism now. Trump has to declare that socialism is going to be the great issue of the elections, and “the socialists this” and “the socialists that.”

JACQUELINE LUQMAN: He mentioned it in his State of the Union address.

PAUL JAY: But he doesn’t want to answer the question, why is socialism such an issue? Why are people that say they’re socialists getting elected? Because capitalism is out of answers.

JACQUELINE LUQMAN: Exactly.

PAUL JAY: It’s not the failure of socialism in Venezuela that’s the big story, it’s the failure of capitalism around the world to deal with climate change, to deal with the threat of accidental nuclear–and maybe deliberate–but accidental nuclear war, to deal with the threat of financial meltdown, which is surely coming sooner or later, to deal with the consequences of what AI is going to mean in terms of people’s employment and how the economy is going to look with artificial intelligence, to deal with the existing chronic poverty in cities across the country.

We’re in Baltimore here, this is decades and decades of deep, chronic poverty and a murder rate of what, three hundred fifty or more a year, more than New York. It’s because the system is out of answers that so many people are talking about socialism.
"You assist an unjust administration most effectively by obeying its orders and decrees. [...] A good person will resist an evil system with his whole soul. Disobedience of the laws of an evil state is therefore a duty."
Mahatma Gandhi - Non-Violent Resistance

Lurk

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Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
« Reply #147 on: March 01, 2019, 08:17:35 AM »
What Does Venezuela Tell Us About Socialism in the USA? – with Paul Jay
February 27, 2019   

A quoted section @ 9:13 https://youtu.be/5CVf54Dy0TY?t=553

Quote
PAUL JAY: Well, the problem is corporate media has such a big platform and they keep repeating this crap.

You know, we’re pretty small. And the other voices that are trying to talk realistically about Venezuela are also relatively small and corporate media just bans the voice. I mean, no one’s calling me from corporate media to talk. Most of the guests that we have on who really know Venezuela never show up on corporate media, or almost never.

So the problem is that people don’t know the history. And the bigger problem is people don’t know their own history. There’s been such a demolishment of the public education system in this country, especially on the issue of teaching of history, and corporate media has really degenerated.

It was never so great to begin with, but there’s been a great degeneration, especially since 9/11.


Quote
PAUL JAY:
Well, first of all, it is a failure of the kinds of policies that were developed over the years in the attempt to build socialism. There are certainly failures there. And to say otherwise is just naive and covering up the internal issues.

And as I said earlier in the interview, there was no game plan here how to develop socialism. The Venezuelan Bolivarian Revolution and this new government that came into being came into a system rife with corruption, as is true in most oil states. Corruption and big oil kind of go hand in hand. It’s hard to imagine much big oil without reams of corruption, especially countries that are very dependent on oil. So it wasn’t like corruption entered the scene.

And personally, I think perhaps they should have been better at fighting corruption during the Chavez years. But it’s a delicate balance, trying to have reforms and fight against corruption, [...] So this relationship of fighting corruption and taking on sections of the elites, it’s not a simple thing. And it’s easy, again, to sit here and pontificate. But there’s no question there were failures. Does this prove the failure of socialism? I mean, it’s ridiculous, because it’s one country’s experience.

[...] The manipulation, I think, to a large extent of the price of oil, had a lot to do with the problems in Venezuela. On the other hand, there was probably time to have a more diversified economy and not be so susceptible to a drop in the price of oil. [...] So sure, in the end the internal issue was critical. And yeah, I mean look at the situation, there is a failure there. That being said, one, it doesn’t prove anything about socialism in other countries and what’s possible and what isn’t.

And two, as I said earlier, a small country trying to defy global capital, and under such pressure and such attack, how do you judge the internal policies when there’s such external pressure on them? But yeah, there’s certainly failures there. But so what?
"You assist an unjust administration most effectively by obeying its orders and decrees. [...] A good person will resist an evil system with his whole soul. Disobedience of the laws of an evil state is therefore a duty."
Mahatma Gandhi - Non-Violent Resistance

Lurk

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Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
« Reply #148 on: March 01, 2019, 08:55:43 AM »
Opinion
Jorge Ramos: The Dictator of Venezuela Earns His Title

Nicolás Maduro stole my television crew’s cameras and expelled me from the country, all because he was afraid of an interview.
By Jorge Ramos

Jimmy Dore et al and Aaron Mate analysis-

[edit] Jimmy goes over the top on this one. He moves into "making all kinds of assumptions" mode about Jorge Ramos - iow impassioned opinions and conclusions - without any actual facts to back him up except the "appearances" he sees - iow a reflection of what most people do when  they they hear the nightly news, Fox, CNN, or read WaPo NYTs etc.

Aaron on the other hand is much more nuanced (and he uses that word in the discussions) he is able to separate assumptions and guesses from the facts of the matter. He cautioned caution of leaping to wild conclusions absent clear evidence to back it up the statements Jimmy was making.

But despite Jimmy being all too human here (and verbalising his frustrations), the relevance and the usefulness of the real information presented in this video (and the discussions about it) are still noteworthy and valid. Every individual is much better off when they are well informed and discerning and do not get caught in over the top presumptions, total falsehoods, and the emotional hand waving in front of their faces.


« Last Edit: March 02, 2019, 04:10:28 AM by Lurk »
"You assist an unjust administration most effectively by obeying its orders and decrees. [...] A good person will resist an evil system with his whole soul. Disobedience of the laws of an evil state is therefore a duty."
Mahatma Gandhi - Non-Violent Resistance

Neven

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Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
« Reply #149 on: March 01, 2019, 09:24:13 AM »
THAT is the problem. And THAT is why Venezuelans go hungry while Max Blumenthal shops in a dollar store.

And THAT is exactly what Max Blumenthal is saying, and THAT is all you quote from Max Blumenthal, and THAT's because THAT's something you really won't know if you watch US media on Venezuela.
Il faut comparer, comparer, comparer, et cultiver notre jardin