The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History

[Rob Dekker]

RE: Oil production falling.

How stupid would a country have to be to produce and sell oil if there are no reliable customers?

Lurk produces so much FUD on this thread that it's hard to get some basic data and reason across.

Oh Pulease get rational one day soon. What a dumb comment. Take responsibility for your own comments, data and refs and stop blaming other people for it being so "hard." You poor oppressed soul.

Oh. Thanks Lurk. That's so nice of you. And yes, I do feel oppressed, with Neven moderating every post I write.

[ASILurker]

Even to the point where they send in Russian contract soldiers (from Prigozhin's Wagner group) into Venezuela (the actual military intervention that nobody talks about) to protect Maduro :

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jan/25/venezuela-maduro-russia-private-security-contractors

But but but Putin Puppet Donald Trump said Maduro was protected by Cuban Special Forces? He didn't trust his own military was the claim there. Maybe it's both Russian and Cuban? Maybe the Iranian Republican Guard is there too but the US and The Guardian do not know that yet? (smile)

Did the Guardian report about the new arrivals of US troops & equipment and Special Forces and CIA Military Ops people in staging the "US defence forces" in Columbia and Costa Rica (or was that Puerto Rico) ?

What about the Israeli SAS Forces who are staging in Brazil - been there for over a week now, maybe two already? Did they mention them too?

Go hard with your "distraction" techniques. What a pity you didn't start your own Venezuela thread in January - given you seem to see yourself as an expert on it, on the truth and the facts. Good luck with that. And goods luck with catching up - in full - on all the content already posted here along with the large amount of material in the refs linked to

Do you have any questions perhaps?

[Rob Dekker]

https://therealnews.com/stories/is-participatory-democracy-the-solution-to-venezuelas-crisis

Atenea Jimenez, speaker of a Network of Communes in Venezuela, says that grassroots, collective decision-making is the key to solving Venezuela’s crisis

Lurk, do you agree ?
If so, which decisions do you think the Venezuelan people need to make ?

[Rob Dekker]

Even to the point where they send in Russian contract soldiers (from Prigozhin's Wagner group) into Venezuela (the actual military intervention that nobody talks about) to protect Maduro :

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jan/25/venezuela-maduro-russia-private-security-contractors

But but but Putin Puppet Donald Trump said Maduro was protected by Cuban Special Forces? He didn't trust his own military was the claim there. Maybe it's both Russian and Cuban? Maybe the Iranian Republican Guard is there too but the US and The Guardian do not know that yet? (smile)

Mmmm. Let's see. Cubans and Iranians too ?

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-venezuela-politics-russia-exclusive/exclusive-kremlin-linked-contractors-help-guard-venezuelas-maduro-sources-idUSKCN1PJ22M

Nope.

Just Prigozhin's Russian Wagner Group went to Venezuela to protect Maduro.

Russia, which has backed Maduro’s socialist government to the tune of billions of dollars, this week promised to stand by him ...

Yeah. Doesn't surprise me since Maduro owes the Russians big money :

EIA stated :

Venezuela’s revenue from oil exports is severely constricted because only about half of the exports generate cash revenues. U.S. refiners are among the few customers that still remit cash payments. The remaining crude oil exports are sold domestically at a loss or sent as loan repayments to China and Russia (the repayments to Russia are sent to Nayara Energy’s (formerly Essar) Vadinar refinery in India to service debt that Venezuela owes to Russian oil company Rosneft, the co–owner of the Vadinar refinery).

[Rob Dekker]

Did the Guardian report about the new arrivals of US troops & equipment and Special Forces and CIA Military Ops people in staging the "US defence forces" in Columbia and Costa Rica (or was that Puerto Rico) ?

So what was it. Colombia, Costa Rica or Puerto Rico ?

What about the Israeli SAS Forces who are staging in Brazil - been there for over a week now, maybe two already? Did they mention them too?

You mean these guys ? :

[Rob Dekker]

I've been called an "eco-terrorist" and a "neocon", a "neo-liberal" and a host of other names.
But never, ever, a "Kremlinbot". That's a first, Neven, and I'm really not sure I follow your reasoning on how you got there, especially since I tend to expose what Russia is DOING rather than what they are SAYING.

Because you're with the Putin puppet that is pushing for covert regime change to destroy yet another country. If you're with the Putin puppet on such an illegal and immoral undertaking, you're obviously a Kremlinbot.

Geez, Neven. What did I ever do wrong to you ?

<You endlessly parrot establishment conditioning/propaganda and are blind to all the contradictions you put yourself in. Don't act as if you're in the minority; N.>

[Rob Dekker]

I've been called an "eco-terrorist" and a "neocon", a "neo-liberal" and a host of other names.
But never, ever, a "Kremlinbot". That's a first, Neven, and I'm really not sure I follow your reasoning on how you got there, especially since I tend to expose what Russia is DOING rather than what they are SAYING.

Because you're with the Putin puppet that is pushing for covert regime change to destroy yet another country. If you're with the Putin puppet on such an illegal and immoral undertaking, you're obviously a Kremlinbot.

Geez, Neven. What did I ever do wrong to you ?

<You endlessly parrot establishment conditioning/propaganda and are blind to all the contradictions you put yourself in. Don't act as if you're in the minority; N.>

Sorry, but I'm stating the facts, not propaganda.

If I'm in the minority or not is not really the issue.
The issue is if I'm right or not.

And the fact is that Venezuela got herself into a declining oil production, because Maduro failed to finance the Venezuelan oil industry.



And the fact is that Maduro owns billions of dollars to Russia, which it pays off by providing oil to Nayara Energy’s (formerly Essar) Vadinar refinery in India to service debt that Venezuela owes to Russian oil company Rosneft, the co–owner of the Vadinar refinery).

https://www.eia.gov/beta/international/analysis.php?iso=VEN

And the fact is that Russia provided contract soldiers from the Wagner group (the military intervention that nobody talks about) to Venezuela, to protect Russian interests in Venezuela and the Maduro regime.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-venezuela-politics-russia-exclusive/exclusive-kremlin-linked-contractors-help-guard-venezuelas-maduro-sources-idUSKCN1PJ22M

So, sorry. But you are wrong, and I am not.

[Rob Dekker]

Oil workers flee Venezuela’s crisis for a better life

https://www.apnews.com/a133dc7090604feeb5e700e9db2345c9

[Neven]

You are wrong about supporting covert regime change, and being on the side of Trump and his band of war criminals (which you will probably say aren't war criminals), not about some irrelevant graph.

[Mozi]

The graph is quite relevant. Venezuela has been falling apart on their own accord for years now. I do not support US-led intervention which makes the current situation difficult to discuss, as the US has obviously decided to stick their foot in (though to what extent remains unknown.) But if you support the Venezuelan people at root, you would also be wishing for Maduro and the PSUV to go. Much better would have been a regional intervention. But just because both sides are wrong doesn't mean I have to throw my lot in with those who for many years have claimed that the CIA gave Chavez cancer. The fundamental problem in Venezuela is the criminal corruption of the PSUV.

[Neven]

The graph is quite relevant.

It isn't relevant to my point that Rob always parrots establishment conditioning/propaganda and is blind to all the contradictions he puts himself in. As soon as the mainstream media says 'Look there, a dictator killing his own people', Rob's knee jerks and he immediately selects all necessary facts to make the case that the dictator must be deposed, either covertly or overtly, nio matter the consequences (Iraq, Libya, Syria, Afghanistan, and dozens of other examples from the previous century). And then, when this actually makes him align with Putin's bitch in the White House, he dodges and makes up all kinds of reasons to appear consistent to himself.

But if you support the Venezuelan people at root, you would also be wishing for Maduro and the PSUV to go.

You need to watch all those videos Lurk has posted, or spend some time at the Real News Network. But even then, the fact that this gets so much attention, while the same could be said about dozens of other countries/regions in the world (that don't have natural resources), is simply ridiculous.

It's very, very simple:

Venezuela needs to be left alone by the US and Russia and everybody else, sanctions need to be lifted immediately, diplomacy restored, and the media needs to stop this excessively riling sensationalism, especially if it's promoting misinformation (which is copied verbatim and uncritically in Austrian newspapers, I saw on Monday).

To think that installing some Harvard-educated neoliberal CIA spook who only has to proclaim himself president, is going to end corruption and leave fossil fuels in the ground, is childish.

[ASILurker]

https://therealnews.com/stories/is-participatory-democracy-the-solution-to-venezuelas-crisis

Atenea Jimenez, speaker of a Network of Communes in Venezuela, says that grassroots, collective decision-making is the key to solving Venezuela’s crisis

Lurk, do you agree ?
If so, which decisions do you think the Venezuelan people need to make ?

Rob this is so easy to answer. I think the Venezuelan people need to make the decisions they are going to make in their own self-interest accordoing to their will as displayed to genuine democratic constitiuionla process that occur wihtout violnce or the threat of violnce by partisan extrmeists and terrorist like activities

Even more so to be able to that, to sort out their own "political problems" absent the external threats of military action and absent the oppressive illegal sanctions being imposted by a bunch of corrupt SELF-RIGHTEOUS KNOW IT ALL NARCISSISTIC PATHOLOGICAL Politicians backed in by even more powerful Oligarchs in the USA, Canada, and Europe.... and without paying any attention to those gullible people of this world who support such things and believe it is a) necessary and b) so really cool despite knowing a damned ed thing about Venezuela bar what they are told in the Press and by those corrupt inane Politicians and Officials. 

iow, to put it even more simply, I actually believe in possibilities of Democracy and the Rule of Law - it is you who does not. You still believe in US exceptionalism and your assumed US right to interfere in every other nation on this Earth because YOU always know best. I do not.

[Rob Dekker]

You guys (Lurk and Neven) seem to think that I am somehow promoting intervention in Venezuela.
Nothing would be further from the truth.

Let me state it clearly : I am absolutely against military intervention in Venezuela.

And also, I'm very confident that there will be no US military intervention in Venezuela.
It would not make ANY sense AT ALL at this point.

So can you guys please stop accusing me ?

Meanwhile, Maduro's policies got Venezuela in deep, deep economical trouble.

The country is already in deep debt (with China and Russia), while the economy is shrinking and it is only getting worse. Here one report I read today :

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-venezuela-gold-exclusive/exclusive-venezuela-removed-8-tons-of-central-bank-gold-last-week-legislator-idUSKCN1QG2QG

Since Venezuela has no more assets, Maduro is now selling the gold from the Venezuelan Central Bank.

Just stop and think about that for a moment.
I am not sure how much of the proceeds from selling gold goes into Maduro's personal pocket, or how much goes back to the Venezuelan people (in the form of buying food and such).

But even if they are selling gold to buy food, you can't do that for very long until the central bank has no more gold left. And what then ?

It's extremely painful to watch this train wreck unfolding, but I fear that this whole situation in Venezuela is not going to end well...

[Neven]

You guys (Lurk and Neven) seem to think that I am somehow promoting intervention in Venezuela.
Nothing would be further from the truth.

Let me state it clearly : I am absolutely against military intervention in Venezuela.

And also, I'm very confident that there will be no US military intervention in Venezuela.
It would not make ANY sense AT ALL at this point.

So can you guys please stop accusing me ?

Aha, so you're with Putin? 

[Jim Hunt]

Aha, so you're with Putin? 

I've just broken my recent "political" duck by popping in here from the alleged "Algorithms of Hate" thread.

I trust Rob also possesses an extremely dry Anglo Saxon sense of humour?

[ASILurker]

Did the Guardian report about the new arrivals of US troops & equipment and Special Forces and CIA Military Ops people in staging the "US defence forces" in Columbia and Costa Rica (or was that Puerto Rico) ?

So what was it. Colombia, Costa Rica or Puerto Rico ?

My bad .... the news reports said: in Columbia and (Costa Rica or Puerto Rico) for staging purposes. I posted it to the forum. Info overload, I'm not sure which posts. Rica Rico all sound the same to me. It was one of them.  

What about the Israeli SAS Forces who are staging in Brazil - been there for over a week now, maybe two already? Did they mention them too?

You mean these guys ?

No. Not those guys

[ASILurker]

Even to the point where they send in Russian contract soldiers (from Prigozhin's Wagner group) into Venezuela (the actual military intervention that nobody talks about) to protect Maduro :

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jan/25/venezuela-maduro-russia-private-security-contractors

But but but Putin Puppet Donald Trump said Maduro was protected by Cuban Special Forces? He didn't trust his own military was the claim there. Maybe it's both Russian and Cuban? Maybe the Iranian Republican Guard is there too but the US and The Guardian do not know that yet? (smile)

Mmmm. Let's see. Cubans and Iranians too ?

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-venezuela-politics-russia-exclusive/exclusive-kremlin-linked-contractors-help-guard-venezuelas-maduro-sources-idUSKCN1PJ22M

Nope.

Just Prigozhin's Russian Wagner Group went to Venezuela to protect Maduro.

I quote ref news reports to. But I don't assume they are all true or accurate.

This Reuters has one named source who doesn't even work of Wagner - Yevgeny Shabayev - but knows people who do he 'claims'.

Putin's Press sec. said they have no information about this. There's no 3rd party confirmation. 2 or 3 unnamed sources 'say' is all they have. Wagner don;t confirm it, Venez. Govt doesn't confirm it. The "russian" journalists (like how could you trust them? smile) reported some aircraft traffic. No pics. No data. No witness statements on the record.

The reports about the Isrealies is no better. Which is why I would never argue the point with you or anyone. Just sharing what I know. Which of course is what you - do you trust that Reuters report as accurate that what those Russian sources and journalist say is what has happened, is the question.

And if it is true then what's the problem with having a high end military armed/trained back security team for a President who is being threatened by the most powerful regime change Govt. on earth?  Especially if they were invited in and given approval by the President/Govt. to be there.

[ASILurker]

Lurk, you talk a lot, but say very little.

Whatever. On this topic I think I post a lot and say very little.

What's your opinion about what should happen in Venezuela right now.

After the removal of the threat of force by the USA, and Guaido wlakig back his self-declaration, then some serious genuine negotiations need to happen while the current Constituion is respected and the Rule of Law prevails. 

Lander (in your video above) calls for a national referendum.

I think that would be a good first step. Do you agree too ?

I'm unsure. I don't know enough about their situation to judge. I am unsure what the "question" was he wanted to be put. I cannot see it proceeding while Guaido continues his illegal (traitorous ?) activities and speech.

And if so, do you think that Maduro will agree as well ?

Unless something seriously changes re US aggression and Guaido stance, and the ongoing violent threats and acts by the Opposition "activists/militias" I seriously doubt it.

I would not if I was him. I would seek out reasonable people from the opposition, eg that Professor and the two who also ran for President last year, and see what kind of agreement coalition could be formed to move things forward. But none of them can stop the US aggressive stance or sanctions, nor would the US now willingly lift them - Trump et al have boxed themselves into a corner - while they progressively boxed maduro into a corner.

It is not going to end well. The US does not want it to end well. Therefore it doesn't really matter what Maduro does now. He cannot fix it and he cannot make it any worse.

Or will Maduro do nothing (except for continuing to print more money) ?

Humourous (?) question doesn't deserve an answer.

[ASILurker]

Lurk, you talk a lot, but say very little.

Whatever. On this topic I think I post a lot and say very little.

What's your opinion about what should happen in Venezuela right now.

After the removal of the threat of force by the USA, and Guaido wlakig back his self-declaration, then some serious genuine negotiations need to happen while the current Constituion is respected and the Rule of Law prevails. 

Lander (in your video above) calls for a national referendum.

I think that would be a good first step. Do you agree too ?

I'm unsure. I don't know enough about their situation to judge. I am unsure what the "question" was he wanted to be put. I cannot see it proceeding while Guaido continues his illegal (traitorous ?) activities and speech.

And if so, do you think that Maduro will agree as well ?

Unless something seriously changes re US aggression and Guaido stance, and the ongoing violent threats and acts by the Opposition "activists/militias" I seriously doubt it.

I would not if I was him. I would seek out reasonable people from the opposition, eg that Professor and the two who also ran for President last year, and see what kind of agreement coalition could be formed to move things forward. But none of them can stop the US aggressive stance or sanctions, nor would the US now willingly lift them - Trump et al have boxed themselves into a corner - while they progressively boxed maduro into a corner.

It is not going to end well. The US does not want it to end well. Therefore it doesn't really matter what Maduro does now. He cannot fix it and he cannot make it any worse.

Venezuela's only hope now is what their allies might do. If I was the head of Cuba, Turkey, India, China, Russia et al I would call the US bluff and send in the military, aircraft and naval ships with hundreds of missiles at the ready to defend the country and to remove the violence at the borders using overwhelming force. But I am a hard ass lefty and not a statesman. 

Or will Maduro do nothing (except for continuing to print more money) ?

Humourous (?) question doesn't deserve an answer.

[ASILurker]

Opinion
Jorge Ramos: The Dictator of Venezuela Earns His Title

Nicolás Maduro stole my television crew’s cameras and expelled me from the country, all because he was afraid of an interview.

By Jorge Ramos

Mr. Ramos is an anchor for the Univision network and the author of “Stranger: The Challenge of a Latino Immigrant in the Trump Era.”

    Feb. 27, 2019

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/27/opinion/jorge-ramos-venezuela.html




Political bias is destroying people’s faith in journalism
By Lara Logan
February 26, 2019

But on that one night, every week, in that one place, I knew the truth. And no one could take it from me because I learned it first hand.

I do my job today, some 30 years later, the same way I did it then: with an open mind, an open heart and a million questions. There is nothing more human than opinions and bias. To say we have none is dishonest. But what we do have as professional journalists is a simple standard to get us past that: two first-hand sources — question everything and independently verify. I didn’t invent this — I inherited it from people like Edward R. Murrow and I will keep passing it on.

Journalists are not activists. We may share the passion for a particular cause, but our job is to follow the facts wherever they may lead. We can’t ignore something that reflects badly on a noble cause, as an activist might. We have to care about the means as much as the end because our duty is to search for the whole truth.

Nor are we lawyers in a court of law, cherry-picking facts to prove our case. Fortunately, there is only one truth. How we feel about it, how we perceive it, those things are subjective but the truth itself is not.

Above all, we are not propagandists or political operatives. That is not our job.

https://nypost.com/2019/02/26/political-bias-is-destroying-peoples-faith-in-journalism/

[ASILurker]

February 28, 2019   

In an affluent part of Caracas, TRNN Correspondent Dimitri Lascaris discusses Venezuela’s crisis with ordinary Venezuelans

Q. What do you think is the best way out of this crisis?

[b_lumenkraft]

Not 100% on topic but relevant to the debate here.

Loaded: A Disarming History of the 2nd Amendment - Review

[Neven]

That's something you really won't know if you watch US media on Venezuela.

[Rob Dekker]

That's something you really won't know if you watch US media on Venezuela.

Key in this video is at 3:00.
Turns out Max Blumenthal had to pay in cash dollars.

Normal working Venezuelans get their salaries paid in Bolívar, which is worth not much more than the paper it's printed on. Hyperinflation KILLS the income of average citizens in Venezuela. And that is a direct result of Maduro simply printing money.

THAT is the problem. And THAT is why Venezuelans go hungry while Max Blumenthal shops in a dollar store.

[Rob Dekker]

Aha, so you're with Putin? 

I've just broken my recent "political" duck by popping in here from the alleged "Algorithms of Hate" thread.

I trust Rob also possesses an extremely dry Anglo Saxon sense of humour?

Nice to see you here, Jim !

Yeah, I often get used as a punching bag here on the political threads, but I don't take anything personal. So I'm cool. Even though Neven moderates every one of my posts. 

I would love to have the dry Anglo Saxon sense of humour you possess, but unfortunately I don't have any sense of humor that I'm aware of.   

[ASILurker]

That's something you really won't know if you watch US media on Venezuela.

with Jimmy Dore Video

Transcript at the end-


14:35 "..... so there's the Washington Post
CNN every goddamn news station printing
pure propaganda pushing pure propaganda.

and now you know why they smear us you
know why the Washington Post put me in a
smear article now you know why CNN put
me in a smear article - a little jag off
comedian C student in his fucking garage
why -

because no one else is gonna tell
you the truth -- certainly not our
politicians and certainly not conspiracy
cowards like Rachel Maddow and friend
and people everybody at CNN that's not
gonna happen.

Unsurprisingly my other thread got derailed before I got seriously started.
I concur with having it closed.
But here's my very last word.
Then I leave Neven rot in the polit cesspit he has created.

----------------------

Vandana is both right and wrong on Obama/Copenhagen/Paris. (Thanks, SteveMDFP.)  I bet she understands that (as she knows some quantum mechanics).

I can still listen to her because she is not thinking out of her guts, but instead tries to get things right.  Unlike e.g. Jimmy Dore her motivation is not hate and polit grandstanding. Apropos:

To Neven,
I've watched enough crooked Hillary smear and hate ever since she got FLOTUS and tried health care reform. You are way deeper in the GOP trap than you seem to be able to imagine.  Polit Dunning-Krüger.  You are dangerously silly.

~~~
On to greener fields of discourse.

Such are the effects of Cognitive Dissonance and the Dunning--Krüger effect. It's always the other person who has the problem. (sigh)

I only partially agree with Martin's concluding "utterance of Hate" Neven. You are not "silly" but you're ideas, beliefs, values and facts are very "dangerous" to the present consensus "system."

[ASILurker]

What Does Venezuela Tell Us About Socialism in the USA? – with Paul Jay
February 27, 2019   

According to Trump, the crisis in a small country with an oil based economy, facing onerous sanctions, discredits the progressive socialist movement in the United States –  Paul Jay joins host Jacqueline Luqman

website transcript
https://therealnews.com/stories/what-does-venezuela-tell-us-about-socialism-in-the-usa-with-paul-jay

[ASILurker]

What Does Venezuela Tell Us About Socialism in the USA? – with Paul Jay
February 27, 2019   

A quoted section @ 3:30

PAUL JAY: Diversified forms of public ownership and workers collectives. But if you’re going to break down the power of the oligarchy, you’ve got to start working at a scale that really challenges them, particularly in the banking sector. That’s kind of another conversation from Venezuela, but just to say what could be done here. The Venezuelan experience doesn’t teach us that much, except maybe the forms of people’s democracy and the fact that a very progressive government came to power there.

Now, that being said, we should never underestimate that this is the heart of the empire. What’s possible in a small Latin American country, or even in Bolivia… Brazil was the biggest country to kind of go down that road, but you can see the external pressure the Brazilians were under in spite of the fact how Lula and the PT, to a large extent, played ball with global finance. Even there, even the modest reforms, in some way, that were being done in Brazil was too much. As soon as there was a weakness in Lula and the PT, they go for the jugular and get rid of them so they can have a more overt, reactionary type of exploitation.

What’s possible here, who knows? What I mean by who knows in this, you get these weird moments in history. Like even Chavez, it was a weird moment in history, where a charismatic guy shows up, the mass movement’s at a certain level, the Venezuelan economy was in trouble, it wasn’t la la land the way the media is talking about it. You get these weird convergences of moments. And we may get one.

This 2020 election might turn out to be that. Because if people start to understand how severe the threat of climate change is, to elect another climate denier or climate denier enabler, which is to a large extent what the corporate Dems were, because you pay lip service to the threat of climate, but you don’t really do anything about it.

JACQUELINE LUQMAN: They say, “We must do something about climate, but they don’t actually do anything about it.”

PAUL JAY: I went back and looked at Obama’s State of the Union messages. I looked at every State of the Union message to look what he said about climate. It was like, at best, a paragraph or two in a grocery list of all kinds of things, and it’s usually buried half way down his grocery list. One State of the Union didn’t even mention climate, like zero. And together with corporate media that barely covers the issue, I mean these are the people that enable a climate denier to get elected president.

JACQUELINE LUQMAN: But President Obama signed the Paris accord! Wasn’t that great, wasn’t that progress?

PAUL JAY: I mean, compared to Trump, maybe. But a study came out from seven of the leading climate scientists last fall that said if every country that signed the Paris Accord fulfilled all their pledges one hundred percent, we’re still going to cross the two degree threshold that’s a critical warming threshold by the year 2050. That Paris Accord was so far from what was needed and it wasn’t obligatory. So it’s not so hard to sign. The interesting thing is, and I mentioned this in an earlier interview I did, everyone’s talking about socialism now. Trump has to declare that socialism is going to be the great issue of the elections, and “the socialists this” and “the socialists that.”

JACQUELINE LUQMAN: He mentioned it in his State of the Union address.

PAUL JAY: But he doesn’t want to answer the question, why is socialism such an issue? Why are people that say they’re socialists getting elected? Because capitalism is out of answers.

JACQUELINE LUQMAN: Exactly.

PAUL JAY: It’s not the failure of socialism in Venezuela that’s the big story, it’s the failure of capitalism around the world to deal with climate change, to deal with the threat of accidental nuclear–and maybe deliberate–but accidental nuclear war, to deal with the threat of financial meltdown, which is surely coming sooner or later, to deal with the consequences of what AI is going to mean in terms of people’s employment and how the economy is going to look with artificial intelligence, to deal with the existing chronic poverty in cities across the country.

We’re in Baltimore here, this is decades and decades of deep, chronic poverty and a murder rate of what, three hundred fifty or more a year, more than New York. It’s because the system is out of answers that so many people are talking about socialism.

[ASILurker]

What Does Venezuela Tell Us About Socialism in the USA? – with Paul Jay
February 27, 2019   

A quoted section @ 9:13

PAUL JAY: Well, the problem is corporate media has such a big platform and they keep repeating this crap.

You know, we’re pretty small. And the other voices that are trying to talk realistically about Venezuela are also relatively small and corporate media just bans the voice. I mean, no one’s calling me from corporate media to talk. Most of the guests that we have on who really know Venezuela never show up on corporate media, or almost never.

So the problem is that people don’t know the history. And the bigger problem is people don’t know their own history. There’s been such a demolishment of the public education system in this country, especially on the issue of teaching of history, and corporate media has really degenerated.

It was never so great to begin with, but there’s been a great degeneration, especially since 9/11.

[ASILurker]

What Does Venezuela Tell Us About Socialism in the USA? – with Paul Jay
February 27, 2019   

A quoted section @ 9:13

PAUL JAY: Well, the problem is corporate media has such a big platform and they keep repeating this crap.

You know, we’re pretty small. And the other voices that are trying to talk realistically about Venezuela are also relatively small and corporate media just bans the voice. I mean, no one’s calling me from corporate media to talk. Most of the guests that we have on who really know Venezuela never show up on corporate media, or almost never.

So the problem is that people don’t know the history. And the bigger problem is people don’t know their own history. There’s been such a demolishment of the public education system in this country, especially on the issue of teaching of history, and corporate media has really degenerated.

It was never so great to begin with, but there’s been a great degeneration, especially since 9/11.

PAUL JAY:
Well, first of all, it is a failure of the kinds of policies that were developed over the years in the attempt to build socialism. There are certainly failures there. And to say otherwise is just naive and covering up the internal issues.

And as I said earlier in the interview, there was no game plan here how to develop socialism. The Venezuelan Bolivarian Revolution and this new government that came into being came into a system rife with corruption, as is true in most oil states. Corruption and big oil kind of go hand in hand. It’s hard to imagine much big oil without reams of corruption, especially countries that are very dependent on oil. So it wasn’t like corruption entered the scene.

And personally, I think perhaps they should have been better at fighting corruption during the Chavez years. But it’s a delicate balance, trying to have reforms and fight against corruption, [...] So this relationship of fighting corruption and taking on sections of the elites, it’s not a simple thing. And it’s easy, again, to sit here and pontificate. But there’s no question there were failures. Does this prove the failure of socialism? I mean, it’s ridiculous, because it’s one country’s experience.

[...] The manipulation, I think, to a large extent of the price of oil, had a lot to do with the problems in Venezuela. On the other hand, there was probably time to have a more diversified economy and not be so susceptible to a drop in the price of oil. [...] So sure, in the end the internal issue was critical. And yeah, I mean look at the situation, there is a failure there. That being said, one, it doesn’t prove anything about socialism in other countries and what’s possible and what isn’t.

And two, as I said earlier, a small country trying to defy global capital, and under such pressure and such attack, how do you judge the internal policies when there’s such external pressure on them? But yeah, there’s certainly failures there. But so what?

[ASILurker]

Opinion
Jorge Ramos: The Dictator of Venezuela Earns His Title

Nicolás Maduro stole my television crew’s cameras and expelled me from the country, all because he was afraid of an interview.
By Jorge Ramos

Jimmy Dore et al and Aaron Mate analysis-

[edit] Jimmy goes over the top on this one. He moves into "making all kinds of assumptions" mode about Jorge Ramos - iow impassioned opinions and conclusions - without any actual facts to back him up except the "appearances" he sees - iow a reflection of what most people do when  they they hear the nightly news, Fox, CNN, or read WaPo NYTs etc.

Aaron on the other hand is much more nuanced (and he uses that word in the discussions) he is able to separate assumptions and guesses from the facts of the matter. He cautioned caution of leaping to wild conclusions absent clear evidence to back it up the statements Jimmy was making.

But despite Jimmy being all too human here (and verbalising his frustrations), the relevance and the usefulness of the real information presented in this video (and the discussions about it) are still noteworthy and valid. Every individual is much better off when they are well informed and discerning and do not get caught in over the top presumptions, total falsehoods, and the emotional hand waving in front of their faces.

[Neven]

THAT is the problem. And THAT is why Venezuelans go hungry while Max Blumenthal shops in a dollar store.

And THAT is exactly what Max Blumenthal is saying, and THAT is all you quote from Max Blumenthal, and THAT's because THAT's something you really won't know if you watch US media on Venezuela.

[Rob Dekker]

Normal working Venezuelans get their salaries paid in Bolívar, which is worth not much more than the paper it's printed on. Hyperinflation KILLS the income of average citizens in Venezuela. And that is a direct result of Maduro simply printing money.
....
THAT is the problem. And THAT is why Venezuelans go hungry while Max Blumenthal shops in a dollar store.

And THAT is exactly what Max Blumenthal is saying, and THAT is all you quote from Max Blumenthal, and THAT's because THAT's something you really won't know if you watch US media on Venezuela.

What do you suggest is missing from my summary of Max Blumenthal's dollar store visit ?

Or do you agree that hyperinflation in Venezuela is caused by Maduro printing money while he is selling gold from the Venezuelan Central Bank ?

Basically, do you agree that at this point, Maduro is robbing the country blind ?

Or is it still all the US's fault ?

[Neven]

As I've understood it, US mainstream media is selling the narrative that people in socialist Venezuela are starving because there's no food and therefore Trump/Bolton/Abrams/Pompeo are sending humanitarian aid, whereas they are meddling and pushing for regime change to force Venezuela to join the neoliberal economics party, so they and their oligarch buddies can enrich themselves with Venezuelan oil.

If you are implying that it's all because Maduro can't handle the hyperinflation, and so now some Harvard agent can rightfully proclaim himself king, with the entire world simply ignoring international law and accepting him as such, then you are wrong.

[ASILurker]

LIVE online

Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov and Venezuelan Vice President Delcy Rodriguez are holding a joint press conference in Moscow as part of her official visit. Rodriguez and Lavrov are expected to discuss cooperation with Russia amid the political crisis in Venezuela.

https://www.rt.com/on-air/452741-lavrov-venezuela-vice-president-press/

[edit] that was interesting to watch. Someone's trying to ship high ends arms and SAMs from eastern European country into Venezuela as well as create "militarised groups" inside Venezuela (maybe similar to the Contras and ME terrorist/rebel groups?) Two new UNSC resolutions were Vetoed. I think one was to recognise Guaido as the legitimate President head of Govt.

meanwhile,  Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro has ordered the relocation of the European headquarters of the country’s state oil company PDVSA to Russia, said Venezuela's Vice President Delcy Rodriguez.

“President Maduro ordered to close the Lisbon office of PDVSA and move it to Moscow,” Rodriguez said on Friday at the joint news conference with Russia’s Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov during her visit to the Russian capital.

[b_lumenkraft]

The Left Strategy For Venezuela & The New Imperialism In Latin America (TMBS 79)

[ASILurker]

The Left Strategy For Venezuela & The New Imperialism In Latin America (TMBS 79)

Quite good above.

I updated my intro comment about a JD video:

Every individual is much better off when they are well informed and discerning and do not get caught in over the top presumptions, total falsehoods, and the emotional hand waving in front of their faces.
https://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php/topic,2571.msg190584.html#msg190584

[ASILurker]

Sidebar because of Bolton's "Troika of Tyrants" labelling

 

Cuba’s new Magna Carta reinforces the island’s revolutionary model, even as Washington ramps up its efforts against leftist governments in Latin America.

As Cubans lined up to cast their ballots over what is arguably the most significant reform seen by the country in half a century

Across the island, people went to the polls en masse to vote on a package of changes to the 1976 Constitution, with an overwhelming majority voting to support the new constitution.

Speaking to journalists at the International Press Center the day after the vote, Alina Balseiro Gutierrez, president of the National Electoral Commission, confirmed that voter turnout had exceeded 84 percent.

The ‘yes’ campaign obtained 90.6 percent, or roughly 6.8 million votes, compared to just over 700,000 who rejected the proposal.

    #Cuba has a new #Constitution according to preliminary results:
    - 7 848 343 Cubans went to vote
    - 6 816 169 voted Yes
    - 706 400 voted No
    🇨🇺 pic.twitter.com/Js6ofilb9q
    — Cuban Embassy in US (@EmbaCubaUS) February 25, 2019

https://www.rt.com/op-ed/452768-cuba-referendum-socialist-us/

---

btw The People in the US have not ever and will never get to Vote on a change to their own "exceptional" Constitution. They never got a to Vote on the first one either. They never got to Vote on declaring war against the British either. The elites decided that, and they still do.

Nothing has improved in this "twisted archaic version" of Democracy in the USA for 250 years. And hardly any cares because hardly anyone knows. The US Constitution is "exceptional" because compared to everyone else's Constitution it's the worst one in existence and can never be changed by or Voted on by The People.

So it is with people, glass houses & stones. 

[b_lumenkraft]

Venezuela: How We Learned to Stop Worrying and Trust the Neocons

[ASILurker]

Venezuela VP interview Video with RT - any claims of bias do not alter the fact this is from "the horses mouth"

In an exclusive interview with RT, Rodriguez said the Venezuelan government has already taken "concrete legal steps" to claim back the assets of which it was "robbed" by the US and which have been frozen by European banks

It was reported earlier that the Bank of England had blocked Venezuela's attempts to retrieve $1.2 billion worth of gold in the nation's foreign reserves. Venezuela's self-proclaimed and US-backed 'interim president' Juan Guido hailed the move as "protection" of the country's assets.

"We have hired lawyers to protect our interests, first and foremost, it concerns gold which has been unlawfully retained by the Bank of England," Rodriguez said.

The Venezuelan VP also said that Caracas would mount a legal defense against the US move to freeze $7 billion of assets belonging to the state-owned PDVSA oil and natural gas giant and its US subsidiary Citgo.

Asked what Guaido, who is now in Colombia, can expect when and if he returns to his home country, Rodriguez said that his actions, such as plotting to topple the government, would warrant a criminal prosecution.

"Such actions are prosecuted by criminal law. Also, there is a regulatory framework that our authorities are guided by. And they are already taking the necessary measures and will continue to protect our state of law and order," she said, without elaborating further.

https://www.rt.com/news/452884-delcy-rodriguez-interview-sanctions/

[Neven]

I don't know if Lurk has already posted this video, but prof Wolff explains what America has had to do with Venezuela's hyperinflation:

[ASILurker]

I don't know if Lurk has already posted this video,

What? You mean you have not looked at all my posts on this topic? Gee you know how to hurt a guy's feelings Neven. I'm feeling somewhat 'insulted' now. So much high quality work for nothing.

(smile)

It doesn't hurt to repeat that video it's a good one which reinforces the same story of what's behind the lies and deception in the western world.

US wants ‘broad’ regime-change coalition on Venezuela – Bolton
Published time: 3 Mar, 2019

 National Security Adviser John Bolton said that the United States will form “as broad a coalition” as possible to oust Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro. Bolton went on to call for a “completely democratic hemisphere.”

[ If was A REALITY BASED IDEAL then where is the broad coalition to make the USA a Democratic nation versus the despotic nation which it is? ]

“I’d like to see as broad a coalition as we can put together to replace Maduro, to replace the whole corrupt regime,” Bolton told CNN’s Jake Tapper on Sunday. “That’s what we’re trying to do.”

    .@AmbJohnBolton on Venezuela: “I’d like to see as broad a coalition as we can put together to replace Maduro” @jaketapper: Do you not see US support for other dictators around the world undermines the credibility of your argument?

    Bolton: “No, I don’t think it does." #CNNSOTU pic.twitter.com/hJH9br8E6t
    — CNN (@CNN) March 3, 2019

A US resolution condemning Maduro and calling for fresh elections in Venezuela was defeated at a meeting of the United Nations Security Council last week, and Maduro remains in control.

 Still, Bolton told Tapper that the US is not afraid to go it alone. “In this administration we’re not afraid to use the phrase ‘Monroe Doctrine,’” he said. “This is a country in our hemisphere and it’s been the objective of American presidents going back to Ronald Reagan to have a completely Democratic hemisphere.”

[ So Russia's attempts to maintain a geopolitical influence over Europe and central asia is the exact same thing, and yet look at all the US Military bases, US troops, CIA black spots, and missile launchers, and Naval forces all over Eastern Europe and in central asia the arctic and the baltic. Nothing to see here right? ]

    The self-defeating and dangerous John Bolton (this time, on #Venezuela):

    “In this administration we’re not afraid to use the phrase Monroe Doctrine.”

    Also says this having just said US wants as broad a coalition as possible to oust Maduro. Reviving Monroe Doctrine won’t do that pic.twitter.com/cFKuz8TKrk
    — Ryan Goodman (@rgoodlaw) March 3, 2019

The ‘Monroe Doctrine’ was the name given to the US policy of opposing European influence in the Western hemisphere, [..]

Bolton is not the only hardliner in Washington to use similar language to describe the situation in Venezuela. Senate Armed Services Committee chair Jim Inhofe (R-Oklahoma) said last month that the US might have to invade Venezuela if Russia dares set up a military base there or “anywhere in our Hemisphere.”

[ You know, Inhofe, the #1 climate science denying Neanderthal sociopath in the Republican party? ]

Nevertheless, US envoy Elliott Abrams - famed for his role running guns to the Contras in the early 1980s - told reporters on Friday that “all options are on the table.”

https://www.rt.com/usa/452920-bolton-venezuela-government-change/

Up is down.
In is out.
Left is right.

Which part of all this do people not recognise as more reflections of 1984 and Iraq War 2.0?

Are they blind or merely afraid to look at it?

Or happy to be gullible despite all the evidence of media manipulations worldwide?

This thread is a shame that I wish I hadn't had the displeasure to find.
Don't confuse Venezuela with its current Tirano.
People are dying under Maduro's oppression. Migrating to countries like Spain as refugees because they simply don't have Bread to Eat.
I don't understand why this manipulated content is allowed in this forum.
But now that it is allowed: todo el cariño y el ánimo al pueblo venezolano desde Europa! Abajo la tiranía!

The Empire vs Venezuela? Seriously?

Venezuela vs. Reason
Venezuela vs. its own people
Socialism still doesn't work

These 3 are the real subjects, not the above

I am truly amazed by the spread of socilaism in the West especially amongst the youth. It can only happen to those who did not live in a totalitarian-socialist/communist regime. I did. I know how terrible it is and why it does not work. We had a joke: "Introduce socialism in the Sahara and soon sand will be in short supply". These regimes ALWAYS destroy human dignity, lead to opression, suffering, and lowered living standards. I can not comprehend how anyone can take the side of Maduro (Chavez).

The West has lived too well for too long. You do not appreciate what you have, that is why you will lose it and be sorry afterwards but it will be too late by then. Witness the stupidity of Trump and Brexit - the writing is on the wall.

The only piece of the play book missing now is "the accusation" of Maduro has WMD. Be patient, won't take long until some 'military pawn' 'escapes with his life' to the US to tell today's Dick Cheney Maduro is stockpiling WMD and has the missiles to deliver it to Texas and Florida!

You cannot solve climate change problems with psychopaths running wild in the US White House and sociopaths leading Senate Committees.

A global coalition to bring down the corrupt criminal dictatorial US Regime and introduce a new US Constitution, Human Rights for all, plus a genuine democracy based on a functional Rule of Law system would solve most of the problems/barriers in the world whereby everyone could start seriously focusing on the real emergency the real crisis that is addressing climate change.

08:49
Dore: "Do you see that were ruled by Psychopaths? Do you see that the news media is filled with sociopaths and narcissists? Sociopaths - they're pushing for a war in Venezuela right now in the news media after Iraq Libya Syria they're still doing that - it's never gonna stop?"

It's never gonna stop unless and until the American people and/or the global Community of nations demands that it stops and forces it to be stopped. 

Until this insane deceitful crap by the USA political system is stopped then no genuine action plans to fight AGW/CC will ever become a global harmonized campaign that can work successfully.

"For the record Venezuela is no less democratic socialist, no less a working Democracy with checks and balances operating under the Rule of Law as those in the bottom left of your graph ... Norway, Denmark, Finland, Australia, New Zealand, Canada, Germany, France, Spain, or Singapore. "

OMG. OMG. OMG.

Venezuela is a dictatorship (a lame one at that though). The reason they do not have food but have zillion percent inflation is their "21st century socialism". When the government regulates prices below the cost of production and people have no incentive to work, the result is a shortage and inflation. I am amazed. We tried this in Eastern Europe (also in Russia and China and Cuba and N.Korea) with the same results everywhere but people still do not learn. I am sorry to disturb your dilusions, I promise I won't do it anymore. Have you lived in a country like me, you wouldn't need those history lessons because you would have first hand experience. I promise to leave your thread to you and your brave fight against the Empire. viva la revolucion!

Frankly I do not care what happens in or to Venezuela btw. It's none of my business let alone my responsibility to fix.

The key issue for me is not Venezuela itself but that this issue again presents another opportunity for millions of people in and out of the USA to finally face up to and shake off their Conditioning.

It's an opportunity for people to re-evaluate, to drop their many Cultural Myths and personal Beliefs that are no longer sustainable in present time.

That those myths and beliefs they have lived their entire lives accepting as Tuisms are now far less sustainable than even BAU on this planet is Sustainable.

Events like Venezuela then is another opportunity  for people to confront themselves and change how they think about everything now. The more who do this the better for everyone.

The sooner genuine systemic changes can begin to be put in place to solve the looming global catastrophe that is AGW/CC.

[ASILurker]

I don't know if Lurk has already posted this video,

What? You mean you have not looked at all my posts on this topic? Gee you know how to hurt a guy's feelings Neven. I'm feeling somewhat 'insulted' now. So much high quality work for nothing.

(smile) It is a good summary video about the economics and how that affects different nations when the levers are pulled one way or another. It doesn't hurt to repeat that video it's a good one which reinforces the same story of what's behind the lies and deception in the western world.

There's not too much left to really say about the matter. But things are not looking good for Venezuela despite the many people's and leadership "positiveness" in public.

quoting this RT report:
US wants ‘broad’ regime-change coalition on Venezuela – Bolton
Published time: 3 Mar, 2019

 National Security Adviser John Bolton said that the United States will form “as broad a coalition” as possible to oust Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro. Bolton went on to call for a “completely democratic hemisphere.”

[ If was A REALITY BASED IDEAL then where is the broad coalition to make the USA a Democratic nation versus the despotic nation which it is? ]

“I’d like to see as broad a coalition as we can put together to replace Maduro, to replace the whole corrupt regime,” Bolton told CNN’s Jake Tapper on Sunday. “That’s what we’re trying to do.”

    .@AmbJohnBolton on Venezuela: “I’d like to see as broad a coalition as we can put together to replace Maduro” @jaketapper: Do you not see US support for other dictators around the world undermines the credibility of your argument?

    Bolton: “No, I don’t think it does." #CNNSOTU pic.twitter.com/hJH9br8E6t
    — CNN (@CNN) March 3, 2019

A US resolution condemning Maduro and calling for fresh elections in Venezuela was defeated at a meeting of the United Nations Security Council last week, and Maduro remains in control.

 Still, Bolton told Tapper that the US is not afraid to go it alone. “In this administration we’re not afraid to use the phrase ‘Monroe Doctrine,’” he said. “This is a country in our hemisphere and it’s been the objective of American presidents going back to Ronald Reagan to have a completely Democratic hemisphere.”

[ So Russia's attempts to maintain a geopolitical influence over Europe and central asia is the exact same thing, and yet look at all the US Military bases, US troops, CIA black spots, and missile launchers, and Naval forces all over Eastern Europe and in central asia the arctic and the baltic. Nothing to see here right? ]

    The self-defeating and dangerous John Bolton (this time, on #Venezuela):

    “In this administration we’re not afraid to use the phrase Monroe Doctrine.”

    Also says this having just said US wants as broad a coalition as possible to oust Maduro. Reviving Monroe Doctrine won’t do that pic.twitter.com/cFKuz8TKrk
    — Ryan Goodman (@rgoodlaw) March 3, 2019

The ‘Monroe Doctrine’ was the name given to the US policy of opposing European influence in the Western hemisphere, [..]

Bolton is not the only hardliner in Washington to use similar language to describe the situation in Venezuela. Senate Armed Services Committee chair Jim Inhofe (R-Oklahoma) said last month that the US might have to invade Venezuela if Russia dares set up a military base there or “anywhere in our Hemisphere.”

[ You know, Inhofe, the #1 climate science denying Neanderthal sociopath in the Republican party? ]

Nevertheless, US envoy Elliott Abrams - famed for his role running guns to the Contras in the early 1980s - told reporters on Friday that “all options are on the table.”

https://www.rt.com/usa/452920-bolton-venezuela-government-change/

Up is down.
In is out.
Left is right.

Which part of all this do people not recognise as more reflections of 1984 and Iraq War 2.0?

Are they blind or merely afraid to look at it?

Or happy to be gullible despite all the evidence of media manipulations worldwide?

This thread is a shame that I wish I hadn't had the displeasure to find.
Don't confuse Venezuela with its current Tirano.
People are dying under Maduro's oppression. Migrating to countries like Spain as refugees because they simply don't have Bread to Eat.
I don't understand why this manipulated content is allowed in this forum.
But now that it is allowed: todo el cariño y el ánimo al pueblo venezolano desde Europa! Abajo la tiranía!

The Empire vs Venezuela? Seriously?

Venezuela vs. Reason
Venezuela vs. its own people
Socialism still doesn't work

These 3 are the real subjects, not the above

I am truly amazed by the spread of socilaism in the West especially amongst the youth. It can only happen to those who did not live in a totalitarian-socialist/communist regime. I did. I know how terrible it is and why it does not work. We had a joke: "Introduce socialism in the Sahara and soon sand will be in short supply". These regimes ALWAYS destroy human dignity, lead to opression, suffering, and lowered living standards. I can not comprehend how anyone can take the side of Maduro (Chavez).

The West has lived too well for too long. You do not appreciate what you have, that is why you will lose it and be sorry afterwards but it will be too late by then. Witness the stupidity of Trump and Brexit - the writing is on the wall.

The only piece of the play book missing now is "the accusation" of Maduro has WMD. Be patient, won't take long until some 'military pawn' 'escapes with his life' to the US to tell today's Dick Cheney Maduro is stockpiling WMD and has the missiles to deliver it to Texas and Florida!

You cannot solve climate change problems with psychopaths running wild in the US White House and sociopaths leading Senate Committees.

A global coalition to bring down the corrupt criminal dictatorial US Regime and introduce a new US Constitution, Human Rights for all, plus a genuine democracy based on a functional Rule of Law system would solve most of the problems/barriers in the world whereby everyone could start seriously focusing on the real emergency the real crisis that is addressing climate change.

08:49
Dore: "Do you see that were ruled by Psychopaths? Do you see that the news media is filled with sociopaths and narcissists? Sociopaths - they're pushing for a war in Venezuela right now in the news media after Iraq Libya Syria they're still doing that - it's never gonna stop?"

It's never gonna stop unless and until the American people and/or the global Community of nations demands that it stops and forces it to be stopped. 

Until this insane deceitful crap by the USA political system is stopped then no genuine action plans to fight AGW/CC will ever become a global harmonized campaign that can work successfully.

"For the record Venezuela is no less democratic socialist, no less a working Democracy with checks and balances operating under the Rule of Law as those in the bottom left of your graph ... Norway, Denmark, Finland, Australia, New Zealand, Canada, Germany, France, Spain, or Singapore. "

OMG. OMG. OMG.

Venezuela is a dictatorship (a lame one at that though). The reason they do not have food but have zillion percent inflation is their "21st century socialism". When the government regulates prices below the cost of production and people have no incentive to work, the result is a shortage and inflation. I am amazed. We tried this in Eastern Europe (also in Russia and China and Cuba and N.Korea) with the same results everywhere but people still do not learn. I am sorry to disturb your dilusions, I promise I won't do it anymore. Have you lived in a country like me, you wouldn't need those history lessons because you would have first hand experience. I promise to leave your thread to you and your brave fight against the Empire. viva la revolucion!

Frankly I do not care what happens in or to Venezuela btw. It's none of my business let alone my responsibility to fix.

The key issue for me is not Venezuela itself but that this issue again presents another opportunity for millions of people in and out of the USA to finally face up to and shake off their Conditioning.

It's an opportunity for people to re-evaluate, to drop their many Cultural Myths and personal Beliefs that are no longer sustainable in present time.

That those myths and beliefs they have lived their entire lives accepting as Tuisms are now far less sustainable than even BAU on this planet is Sustainable.

Events like Venezuela then is another opportunity  for people to confront themselves and change how they think about everything now. The more who do this the better for everyone.

The sooner genuine systemic changes can begin to be put in place to solve the looming global catastrophe that is AGW/CC.

Tinkering around the margins while living on 'Hope', nor building out renewables or manufacturing a million Teslas a year is not going to change a thing.

[ASILurker]

I don't know if Lurk has already posted this video,

What? You mean you have not looked at all my posts on this topic? Gee you know how to hurt a guy's feelings Neven. I'm feeling somewhat 'insulted' now. So much high quality work for nothing.

(smile) It is a good summary video about the economics and how that affects different nations when the levers are pulled one way or another. It doesn't hurt to repeat that video it's a good one which reinforces the same story of what's behind the lies and deception in the western world.

There's not too much left to really say about the matter. But things are not looking good for Venezuela despite the many people's and leadership "positiveness" in public.

quoting this RT report:
US wants ‘broad’ regime-change coalition on Venezuela – Bolton
Published time: 3 Mar, 2019

 National Security Adviser John Bolton said that the United States will form “as broad a coalition” as possible to oust Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro. Bolton went on to call for a “completely democratic hemisphere.”

[ If was A REALITY BASED IDEAL then where is the broad coalition to make the USA a Democratic nation versus the despotic nation which it is? ]

“I’d like to see as broad a coalition as we can put together to replace Maduro, to replace the whole corrupt regime,” Bolton told CNN’s Jake Tapper on Sunday. “That’s what we’re trying to do.”

    .@AmbJohnBolton on Venezuela: “I’d like to see as broad a coalition as we can put together to replace Maduro” @jaketapper: Do you not see US support for other dictators around the world undermines the credibility of your argument?

    Bolton: “No, I don’t think it does." #CNNSOTU pic.twitter.com/hJH9br8E6t
    — CNN (@CNN) March 3, 2019

A US resolution condemning Maduro and calling for fresh elections in Venezuela was defeated at a meeting of the United Nations Security Council last week, and Maduro remains in control.

 Still, Bolton told Tapper that the US is not afraid to go it alone. “In this administration we’re not afraid to use the phrase ‘Monroe Doctrine,’” he said. “This is a country in our hemisphere and it’s been the objective of American presidents going back to Ronald Reagan to have a completely Democratic hemisphere.”

[ So Russia's attempts to maintain a geopolitical influence over Europe and central asia is the exact same thing, and yet look at all the US Military bases, US troops, CIA black spots, and missile launchers, and Naval forces all over Eastern Europe and in central asia the arctic and the baltic. Nothing to see here right? ]

    The self-defeating and dangerous John Bolton (this time, on #Venezuela):

    “In this administration we’re not afraid to use the phrase Monroe Doctrine.”

    Also says this having just said US wants as broad a coalition as possible to oust Maduro. Reviving Monroe Doctrine won’t do that pic.twitter.com/cFKuz8TKrk
    — Ryan Goodman (@rgoodlaw) March 3, 2019

The ‘Monroe Doctrine’ was the name given to the US policy of opposing European influence in the Western hemisphere, [..]

Bolton is not the only hardliner in Washington to use similar language to describe the situation in Venezuela. Senate Armed Services Committee chair Jim Inhofe (R-Oklahoma) said last month that the US might have to invade Venezuela if Russia dares set up a military base there or “anywhere in our Hemisphere.”

[ You know, Inhofe, the #1 climate science denying Neanderthal sociopath in the Republican party? ]

Nevertheless, US envoy Elliott Abrams - famed for his role running guns to the Contras in the early 1980s - told reporters on Friday that “all options are on the table.”

https://www.rt.com/usa/452920-bolton-venezuela-government-change/

Up is down.
In is out.
Left is right.

Which part of all this do people not recognise as more reflections of 1984 and Iraq War 2.0?

Are they blind or merely afraid to look at it?

Or happy to be gullible despite all the evidence of media manipulations worldwide?

This thread is a shame that I wish I hadn't had the displeasure to find.
Don't confuse Venezuela with its current Tirano.
People are dying under Maduro's oppression. Migrating to countries like Spain as refugees because they simply don't have Bread to Eat.
I don't understand why this manipulated content is allowed in this forum.
But now that it is allowed: todo el cariño y el ánimo al pueblo venezolano desde Europa! Abajo la tiranía!

The Empire vs Venezuela? Seriously?

Venezuela vs. Reason
Venezuela vs. its own people
Socialism still doesn't work

These 3 are the real subjects, not the above

I am truly amazed by the spread of socilaism in the West especially amongst the youth. It can only happen to those who did not live in a totalitarian-socialist/communist regime. I did. I know how terrible it is and why it does not work. We had a joke: "Introduce socialism in the Sahara and soon sand will be in short supply". These regimes ALWAYS destroy human dignity, lead to opression, suffering, and lowered living standards. I can not comprehend how anyone can take the side of Maduro (Chavez).

The West has lived too well for too long. You do not appreciate what you have, that is why you will lose it and be sorry afterwards but it will be too late by then. Witness the stupidity of Trump and Brexit - the writing is on the wall.

The only piece of the play book missing now is "the accusation" of Maduro has WMD. Be patient, won't take long until some 'military pawn' 'escapes with his life' to the US to tell today's Dick Cheney Maduro is stockpiling WMD and has the missiles to deliver it to Texas and Florida!

You cannot solve climate change problems with psychopaths running wild in the US White House and sociopaths leading Senate Committees.

A global coalition to bring down the corrupt criminal dictatorial US Regime and introduce a new US Constitution, Human Rights for all, plus a genuine democracy based on a functional Rule of Law system would solve most of the problems/barriers in the world whereby everyone could start seriously focusing on the real emergency the real crisis that is addressing climate change.

08:49
Dore: "Do you see that were ruled by Psychopaths? Do you see that the news media is filled with sociopaths and narcissists? Sociopaths - they're pushing for a war in Venezuela right now in the news media after Iraq Libya Syria they're still doing that - it's never gonna stop?"

It's never gonna stop unless and until the American people and/or the global Community of nations demands that it stops and forces it to be stopped. 

Until this insane deceitful crap by the USA political system is stopped then no genuine action plans to fight AGW/CC will ever become a global harmonized campaign that can work successfully.

"For the record Venezuela is no less democratic socialist, no less a working Democracy with checks and balances operating under the Rule of Law as those in the bottom left of your graph ... Norway, Denmark, Finland, Australia, New Zealand, Canada, Germany, France, Spain, or Singapore. "

OMG. OMG. OMG.

Venezuela is a dictatorship (a lame one at that though). The reason they do not have food but have zillion percent inflation is their "21st century socialism". When the government regulates prices below the cost of production and people have no incentive to work, the result is a shortage and inflation. I am amazed. We tried this in Eastern Europe (also in Russia and China and Cuba and N.Korea) with the same results everywhere but people still do not learn. I am sorry to disturb your dilusions, I promise I won't do it anymore. Have you lived in a country like me, you wouldn't need those history lessons because you would have first hand experience. I promise to leave your thread to you and your brave fight against the Empire. viva la revolucion!

Frankly I do not care what happens in or to Venezuela btw. It's none of my business let alone my responsibility to fix.

The key issue for me is not Venezuela itself but that this issue again presents another opportunity for millions of people in and out of the USA to finally face up to and shake off their Conditioning.

It's an opportunity for people to re-evaluate, to drop their many Cultural Myths and personal Beliefs that are no longer sustainable in present time.

That those myths and beliefs they have lived their entire lives accepting as Tuisms are now far less sustainable than even BAU on this planet is Sustainable.

Events like Venezuela then is another opportunity  for people to confront themselves and change how they think about everything now. The more who do this the better for everyone.

The sooner genuine systemic changes can begin to be put in place to solve the looming global catastrophe that is AGW/CC.

Tinkering around the margins while living on 'Hope', nor building out renewables or manufacturing a million Teslas a year is not going to change a thing.

[ASILurker]

I don't know if Lurk has already posted this video,

What? You mean you have not looked at all my posts on this topic? Gee you know how to hurt a guy's feelings Neven. I'm feeling somewhat 'insulted' now. So much high quality work for nothing.

(smile) It is a good summary video about the economics and how that affects different nations when the levers are pulled one way or another. It doesn't hurt to repeat that video which reinforces the same story of what's behind the lies and deception about Venezuela and every other 'story' and 'myth' going around.

There's not too much left to really say about the matter. But things are not looking good for Venezuela despite the many people's and leadership "positiveness" in public.

quoting this RT report:
US wants ‘broad’ regime-change coalition on Venezuela – Bolton
Published time: 3 Mar, 2019

 National Security Adviser John Bolton said that the United States will form “as broad a coalition” as possible to oust Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro. Bolton went on to call for a “completely democratic hemisphere.”

[ If was A REALITY BASED IDEAL then where is the broad coalition to make the USA a Democratic nation versus the despotic nation which it is? ]

“I’d like to see as broad a coalition as we can put together to replace Maduro, to replace the whole corrupt regime,” Bolton told CNN’s Jake Tapper on Sunday. “That’s what we’re trying to do.”

    .@AmbJohnBolton on Venezuela: “I’d like to see as broad a coalition as we can put together to replace Maduro” @jaketapper: Do you not see US support for other dictators around the world undermines the credibility of your argument?

    Bolton: “No, I don’t think it does." #CNNSOTU pic.twitter.com/hJH9br8E6t
    — CNN (@CNN) March 3, 2019

A US resolution condemning Maduro and calling for fresh elections in Venezuela was defeated at a meeting of the United Nations Security Council last week, and Maduro remains in control.

 Still, Bolton told Tapper that the US is not afraid to go it alone. “In this administration we’re not afraid to use the phrase ‘Monroe Doctrine,’” he said. “This is a country in our hemisphere and it’s been the objective of American presidents going back to Ronald Reagan to have a completely Democratic hemisphere.”

[ So Russia's attempts to maintain a geopolitical influence over Europe and central asia is the exact same thing, and yet look at all the US Military bases, US troops, CIA black spots, and missile launchers, and Naval forces all over Eastern Europe and in central asia the arctic and the baltic. Nothing to see here right? ]

    The self-defeating and dangerous John Bolton (this time, on #Venezuela):

    “In this administration we’re not afraid to use the phrase Monroe Doctrine.”

    Also says this having just said US wants as broad a coalition as possible to oust Maduro. Reviving Monroe Doctrine won’t do that pic.twitter.com/cFKuz8TKrk
    — Ryan Goodman (@rgoodlaw) March 3, 2019

The ‘Monroe Doctrine’ was the name given to the US policy of opposing European influence in the Western hemisphere, [..]

Bolton is not the only hardliner in Washington to use similar language to describe the situation in Venezuela. Senate Armed Services Committee chair Jim Inhofe (R-Oklahoma) said last month that the US might have to invade Venezuela if Russia dares set up a military base there or “anywhere in our Hemisphere.”

[ You know, Inhofe, the #1 climate science denying Neanderthal sociopath in the Republican party? ]

Nevertheless, US envoy Elliott Abrams - famed for his role running guns to the Contras in the early 1980s - told reporters on Friday that “all options are on the table.”

https://www.rt.com/usa/452920-bolton-venezuela-government-change/

Up is down.
In is out.
Left is right.

Which part of all this do people not recognise as more reflections of 1984 and Iraq War 2.0?

Are they blind or merely afraid to look at it?

Or happy to be gullible despite all the evidence of media manipulations worldwide?

This thread is a shame that I wish I hadn't had the displeasure to find.
Don't confuse Venezuela with its current Tirano.
People are dying under Maduro's oppression. Migrating to countries like Spain as refugees because they simply don't have Bread to Eat.
I don't understand why this manipulated content is allowed in this forum.
But now that it is allowed: todo el cariño y el ánimo al pueblo venezolano desde Europa! Abajo la tiranía!

The Empire vs Venezuela? Seriously?

Venezuela vs. Reason
Venezuela vs. its own people
Socialism still doesn't work

These 3 are the real subjects, not the above

I am truly amazed by the spread of socilaism in the West especially amongst the youth. It can only happen to those who did not live in a totalitarian-socialist/communist regime. I did. I know how terrible it is and why it does not work. We had a joke: "Introduce socialism in the Sahara and soon sand will be in short supply". These regimes ALWAYS destroy human dignity, lead to opression, suffering, and lowered living standards. I can not comprehend how anyone can take the side of Maduro (Chavez).

The West has lived too well for too long. You do not appreciate what you have, that is why you will lose it and be sorry afterwards but it will be too late by then. Witness the stupidity of Trump and Brexit - the writing is on the wall.

The only piece of the play book missing now is "the accusation" of Maduro has WMD. Be patient, won't take long until some 'military pawn' 'escapes with his life' to the US to tell today's Dick Cheney Maduro is stockpiling WMD and has the missiles to deliver it to Texas and Florida!

You cannot solve climate change problems with psychopaths running wild in the US White House and sociopaths leading Senate Committees.

A global coalition to bring down the corrupt criminal dictatorial US Regime and introduce a new US Constitution, Human Rights for all, plus a genuine democracy based on a functional Rule of Law system would solve most of the problems/barriers in the world whereby everyone could start seriously focusing on the real emergency the real crisis that is addressing climate change.

08:49
Dore: "Do you see that were ruled by Psychopaths? Do you see that the news media is filled with sociopaths and narcissists? Sociopaths - they're pushing for a war in Venezuela right now in the news media after Iraq Libya Syria they're still doing that - it's never gonna stop?"

It's never gonna stop unless and until the American people and/or the global Community of nations demands that it stops and forces it to be stopped. 

Until this insane deceitful crap by the USA political system is stopped then no genuine action plans to fight AGW/CC will ever become a global harmonized campaign that can work successfully.

"For the record Venezuela is no less democratic socialist, no less a working Democracy with checks and balances operating under the Rule of Law as those in the bottom left of your graph ... Norway, Denmark, Finland, Australia, New Zealand, Canada, Germany, France, Spain, or Singapore. "

OMG. OMG. OMG.

Venezuela is a dictatorship (a lame one at that though). The reason they do not have food but have zillion percent inflation is their "21st century socialism". When the government regulates prices below the cost of production and people have no incentive to work, the result is a shortage and inflation. I am amazed. We tried this in Eastern Europe (also in Russia and China and Cuba and N.Korea) with the same results everywhere but people still do not learn. I am sorry to disturb your dilusions, I promise I won't do it anymore. Have you lived in a country like me, you wouldn't need those history lessons because you would have first hand experience. I promise to leave your thread to you and your brave fight against the Empire. viva la revolucion!

Frankly I do not care what happens in or to Venezuela btw. It's none of my business let alone my responsibility to fix.

The key issue for me is not Venezuela itself but that this issue again presents another opportunity for millions of people in and out of the USA to finally face up to and shake off their Conditioning.

It's an opportunity for people to re-evaluate, to drop their many Cultural Myths and personal Beliefs that are no longer sustainable in present time.

That those myths and beliefs they have lived their entire lives accepting as Tuisms are now far less sustainable than even BAU on this planet is Sustainable.

Events like Venezuela then is another opportunity  for people to confront themselves and change how they think about everything now. The more who do this the better for everyone.

The sooner genuine systemic changes can begin to be put in place to solve the looming global catastrophe that is AGW/CC.

Tinkering around the margins while living on 'Hope', nor building out renewables or manufacturing a million Teslas a year is not going to change a thing.

[Rob Dekker]

If you are implying that it's all because Maduro can't handle the hyperinflation, and so now some Harvard agent can rightfully proclaim himself king, with the entire world simply ignoring international law and accepting him as such, then you are wrong.

No international law was broken.

As I understand it, under the 1999 (Hugo Chavez) Constitution the National Assembly (which is democratically elected) is the nations legislative body.

It has the right to vote to invalidate the presidential election, and call for re-election. They did so in the case of Maduro in the January elections :
https://www.rappler.com/world/regions/latin-america/220407-venezuela-national-assembly-rejects-nicolas-maduro-second-term
So as far as the democratically elected body of Venezuela is concerned, the country is currently without a president.

Article 233 of the Venezuelan Constitution :
https://venezuela.justia.com/federales/constitucion-de-la-republica-bolivariana-de-venezuela/titulo-v/capitulo-ii/#articulo-233
states that in case of "absence" of the President of Venezuela, new elections must be started and in the interim the Head of the Venezuelan Assembly would act as provisional president.

If you believe that there is still democracy in Venezuela, then at this point Maduro is OUT, and Guiado, being the elected president of the National Assembly would thus at this point be the provisional president until a new president is elected with the new elections.

So if you side with Maduro it is a coup (although an institutional one), if you side with Guaido it is just following the Constitution and the coup (if any) was effected by Maduro at the elections and before.

[Neven]

Keep pushing for regime change, Rob.

[Rob Dekker]

As I've understood it, US mainstream media is selling the narrative that people in socialist Venezuela are starving because there's no food

Sure Neven, but Maduro has found a very good solution for that : Venezuelans should eat rabbits :
https://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2017/09/14/551026492/let-them-eat-rabbit-is-venezuelan-presidents-response-to-food-shortages

Maduro hopes the small mammal will counter the impact of what he calls a huge "economic war" waged against him by "imperialists" — notably the United States and his arch-enemy, President Donald Trump.

Of course the main problem is much more basic :

Venezuelans cannot afford food, because the economy is in the tank, there is hyperinflation because Venezuela has NO income, and the Maduro regime is printing worthless paper as salaries to the people.

The country is BANKRUPT (Maduro is selling even the gold from the central bank, and who know how much he keeps for himself), and the political system is now a dictatorship.

And that's why 3 million Venezuelans left the country.
And the UN estimates another 2 million are to come this year.

If Maduro doesn't resign himself, this is not going to end well.

[Rob Dekker]

Keep pushing for regime change, Rob.

Keep supporting a criminal dictator that steals the country blind, Neven.

[Rob Dekker]

I don't know if Lurk has already posted this video, but prof Wolff explains what America has had to do with Venezuela's hyperinflation:

Yes, Lurk posted this before, and it is as irrelevant as it was back then.

The video is mostly about the New Deal and the Green New Deal.

There is actually very little about the Venezuelan hyperinflation, and literally NOTHING about what the US supposedly has to do with that.

That's because the Venezuelan hyperinflation is caused ONLY by Maduro simply printing money to pay his bills.

After Maduro killed the country's oil production, and got Venezuela deeply in debt with the Russians and the Chinese, Maduro has no assets left over.

He is even selling the gold in the Venezuelan Federal Reserve :

https://nypost.com/2019/02/01/venezuelas-maduro-to-sell-gold-reserves-to-prop-up-regime/

Maduro destroyed the country and stole everything there is to steel from the Venezuelan people.

If he doesn't resign himself, this is not going to end well.