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ASILurker

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Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
« Reply #200 on: March 04, 2019, 11:05:25 AM »
As I understand it,

Maybe you don't though. Sources can be tricky. The issue you raise has been addressed in multiple prior posts here already.

For a start the National assembly has no right to call a new presidential election on it's own - "Venezuela's constitution gives voters the right to recall their president if they collect enough signatures to do so". They need 2.5 million signatures. No one has bothered to do that since Maduro was elected.

You may make a note that on this and many other scores Venezuela is far more democratic, with far more checks and balances for the people to maintaining a level of supervision over their elected officials than exists in the USA - and elsewhere.

What a bummer that Trump could not be recalled and face a re-election contest last November with only a 40% approval rating. The same with Macron with numbers somewhere between 10% and 20% depending on which it is taken. :)

Then there's the problem of your understanding about the National Assembly and it's non-existence.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Venezuelan_Constituent_Assembly_election

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Venezuelan_referendum


2017 constitutional crisis
See also: 2017 Venezuelan constitutional crisis

On 29 March 2017, the Supreme Court (TSJ) stripped the Assembly of its powers, ruling that all powers would be transferred to the Supreme Court. The previous year the Court found the Assembly in contempt for swearing in legislators whose elections had been deemed invalid by the court.[5] The 2017 court judgement declared that the "situation of contempt" meant that the Assembly could not exercise its powers.[6] The action transferred powers from the Assembly, which had an opposition majority since January 2016,[6] to the Supreme Court, which has a majority of government loyalists.[5] The move was denounced by the opposition with Assembly President Julio Borges describing the action as a coup d'état by President Nicolás Maduro.[5] However, after public protests and condemnation by international bodies, the court's decision was reversed a few days later on 1 April.[7][8]

On 4 August 2017, Venezuela convened a new Constituent Assembly after a special election which was boycotted by opposition parties [7]. The new Constituent Assembly is intended to rewrite the constitution; it also has wide legal powers allowing it to rule above all other state institutions. The Constituent Assembly meets within the Federal Legislative Palace; the leadership of the National Assembly have said it would continue its work as a legislature and it will still continue to meet in the same building.[9]

On 18 August the Constituent Assembly summoned the members of the National Assembly to attend a ceremony acknowledging its legal superiority; the opposition members of the National Assembly boycotted the event.[10] In response, the Constitutional Assembly stripped the National Assembly of its legislative powers, assuming them for itself.[11] It justified the move by claiming that the National Assembly had failed to prevent what it called "opposition violence" in the form of the 2017 Venezuelan protests.[12] The constitutionality of this move has been questioned, and it has been condemned by several foreign governments and international bodies.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Assembly_(Venezuela)

This has been covered several times in previous posts and video interviews btw

People can question it all they wish but it is a done deal. This Constitutional crisis continues and if allowed will be resolved by the people and institutions of Venezuela under the Law and under the Constitution of Venezuela which was ratified by a huge majority Vote of the people - as were the 2017 Referendum and the  Constituent Assembly equally "free and fairly" Voted on by the People with a huge majority.

Now you may not like that, and Bolton may not like that and Quaido may not like that BUT TOUGH LUCK. It's the Law and it is also the reality on the ground. Quaido is a no body with no title and no job. If he gets invited to negotiations as part of the Opposition with Maduro et al he will consider himself lucky.

Most of the Opposition parties spat the dummy, took their dolly and went home to mama. They lost. It happens. They need to get over that and grow up.

Because at the moment Quaido he deemed a "suspected criminal" under Venezuelan Law - and I would no be surprised if there are warrants out for his immediate arrest.

No one is above the Law are they Rob? Not even Donald Trump, right?

Rob Dekker

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Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
« Reply #201 on: March 04, 2019, 11:14:34 AM »
I don't know if Lurk has already posted this video, but prof Wolff explains what America has had to do with Venezuela's hyperinflation:

Yes, Lurk posted this before, and it is as irrelevant as it was back then.

The video is mostly about the New Deal and the Green New Deal.

There is actually very little about the Venezuelan hyperinflation, and literally NOTHING about what the US supposedly has to do with that.

That's because the Venezuelan hyperinflation is caused ONLY by Maduro simply printing money to pay his bills.

After he killed the country's oil production, and got Venezuela deep in debt with the Russians and the Chinese, Maduro had no income left over.

So now he is even selling the gold in the Venezuelan Federal Reserve to get SOME cash :

https://nypost.com/2019/02/01/venezuelas-maduro-to-sell-gold-reserves-to-prop-up-regime/

Maduro destroyed the country and stole everything there is to steel from the Venezuelan people.

If he doesn't resign himself, this is not going to end well.
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Rob Dekker

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Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
« Reply #202 on: March 04, 2019, 11:27:41 AM »
You are one different kind of cookie, Lurk.

Unbelievable, how you spend so much time, words and red herrings defending your favorite dictators.

In this case Maduro. On other occasions Putin and Assad.

Here your red herring was the 2017 Venezuelan constitutional crisis :

2017 constitutional crisis
See also: 2017 Venezuelan constitutional crisis

On 29 March 2017, the Supreme Court (TSJ) stripped the Assembly of its powers, ..... bla bla bla

Nobody came up with this. Just you, as a red herring.

And of course you did not mention that prior to this, Maduro lost the elections for the National Assembly. So his party no longer ruled the legislative body of Venezuela. And Juan Guaidó was elected the majority leader :

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Assembly_(Venezuela)

If that happens in the US, you just sit it out until the next election.

But Maduro did not accept that.
So he instituted by presidential decree an all-powerful Constituent Assembly, which overrules the entire democratically elected legislative branch of government.

https://www.dw.com/en/venezuelas-new-constituent-assembly-declares-itself-all-powerful/a-40017220

Seriously. You can't make this shit up, even if you wanted to.

And this is after he told his friends on the Election Committee to cancel the recall referendum against him, depriving the people of Venezuela a democratic way to boot him out of office (this was in 2015).
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-37724322

Seriously. You can't make this shit up, even if you wanted to.

Or this trick by Maduro to stuff the supreme court with friends (while in lame duck session) so they can nullify the all powers of congress :
https://www.cnn.com/2017/03/30/americas/venezuela-dissolves-national-assembly/index.html
Quote
In a surprising move the Venezuelan opposition is calling a coup, the Venezuelan Supreme Court has stripped the country's National Assembly of its powers.

Seriously. In any other country you can't make this shit up, even if you wanted to.

But in Venezuela under Maduro, it's just business as usual, to consolidate the power of the president/dictator.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2019, 12:10:59 PM by Rob Dekker »
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Neven

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Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
« Reply #203 on: March 04, 2019, 11:48:14 AM »
Serious. You can't make this shit up, even if you wanted to.

Other are making this shit up, because they want to (because they want to get rich off resources), and then you spread it around uncritically, always pushing for war, death and destruction.
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Neven

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Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
« Reply #204 on: March 04, 2019, 02:33:39 PM »
Sanders during recent townhall:

Quote
I do find it interesting that Trump is very concerned about what goes on in Venezuela. But what about the last election that took place in Saudi Arabia? Oh, there wasn’t any election in Saudi Arabia. Oh, women are treated as third-class citizens. So I find it interesting that Trump is kind of selective as to where he is concerned about democracy.

You can just as well replace 'Trump' with 'Rob'. Every time the US wants to destabilize a country for ressources, the media gives full support by providing excessive attention, and the likes of Rob are there to uncritically spread every piece of propaganda that is handed to them. Zero nuance, zero self-awareness.

The whole Venezuela hype is about four things: 1) Getting Venezuela's oil by installing a neoliberal government, 2) Preventing the spread of socialist democracies in Latin America, as has been done so many times before in Latin America 3) Russiagate-level distraction from Trump corruption and the roots of what is crippling US society, 4) Preventing social democracy from spreading in the US itself, by coupling the Venezuela 'socialist dictatorship' to progressives, forcing them to fall into the trap of acknowledging talking points. It's used as a stone around the neck of true progressives.

You see, Rob claims he's a Bernie supporter, but his uncritical, unnuanced parroting establishment propaganda is directly undermining progressivism in the US. Never mind that he's helping create the conditions for another Iraq, Libya, Afghanistan, Syria, with his selective and conditioned critique of the dictatorship du jour. You cannot claim to be a Bernie supporter and then act as a warmongering neocon at every turn, perfectly echoing establishment war machine propaganda. You need to put some thought into it, read some history books, some Chomsky, and then choose what it actually is you stand for, instead of floating in this limbo of contradictions, cognitive dissonance and outright hypocrisy.

Speaking of Sanders, here's a very interesting discussion on his remarks on Venezuela during his CNN townhall, where the propaganda wheat is separated from the chaff:



Here is everything in a nutshell:

Quote
NORMAN SOLOMON: Well, If you look at what he said about the economy of Venezuela, I think the omission that would have been much better for him to provide would be the effect of U.S. sanctions, which have been damaging and crippling, antihumanitarian, for many years. I think it’s notable as a backdrop that almost two years ago, Bernie Sanders voted against sanctions on North Korea, Iran, and Russia, you know, a package. And it was a courageous vote, because he pointed out that these sanctions in those cases reduced the chance of bringing about peaceful relations, and increased the chance of military conflict.

I think it’s notable in the clip that we just heard that Bernie condemned not only military intervention, but he cited three examples of non-military, subversive, CIA-type undermining of democratically-elected governments. He cited Brazil. He cited Guatemala and Chile. And this is the kind of historical context and understanding that conveyed a very clear point. And we’re not going to get that, we haven’t gotten that, from other candidates for the Democratic presidential nomination.

I don’t think what we need most of all from government leaders in the United States, particularly in the Congress at this point, I don’t think what we need is to say that Maduro is flawless. And frankly, I don’t think he is. I think what we need from those leaders is to say we must not have the United States intervene militarily, or any other way. If you look at the actual phrasing of what Bernie has been saying, he says that he supports humanitarian aid going into Venezuela. He doesn’t say U.S. humanitarian aid. And as Jacqueline pointed out, there has been humanitarian aid flowing in from various other countries.

So you know, frankly, I think that when you take as a whole what Bernie is saying, it is conveying to the mass media against ferocious propaganda that we need nonintervention in Venezuela. And one more point. Bernie has been savagely trashed by many corporate Democrats in the last week for refusing to call Maduro a dictator, for refusing to go along with what I think really are the main mass media-type talking points in this country.
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ASILurker

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Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
« Reply #205 on: March 04, 2019, 06:49:13 PM »
That's because the Venezuelan hyperinflation is caused ONLY by Maduro simply printing money to pay his bills.
Facts never seem to bother you . you just walk on by :)
Quote
After he killed the country's oil production, and got Venezuela deep in debt with the Russians and the Chinese, Maduro had no income left over.

fantasy fictions .. you're really grabbing at straws here. what's being in debt to someone got to do with no income left?

When up above you were making all these assertions their production was still high and exports to the USA had not fallen as per IEA data . Bait and switch is it?
 
Quote
stole everything there is to steal ....

And your evidence for this latest claims is ............ ??

You're never interested in a genuine exchange of info or discussing anything., It's always point blank "this is IT" and "why doesn't anyone agree with you" all the time.

How about there really complex info around and no one really knows wtf the story is or the truth is or the real data is exactly?

ASILurker

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Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
« Reply #206 on: March 04, 2019, 06:57:49 PM »
You are one different kind of cookie, Lurk.

Yeah I tend to rely on multiple sources - I am open to all voices and information - and not just focus on the latest thought bubble in my own head. That and I have a good memory and so I don't get lost very often.

But the biggest difference? I do not rush to judgement. Not knowing exactly what is going on or being able to definitely conclude what all the causes are and WHO MUST BE TO BLAME FOR EVERYTHING GOING WRONG is I think the biggie - because it doesn't bother me that some things are not known for certain one way or another. 

I am not a Chicken Little nor a drama queen! Sure I can get impassioned and emotional but that is not the same thing. I even reposted "that I do not care what happens there" anyway. Doesn't any of this ever sink in?

 
Quote
Unbelievable, how you spend so much time, words and red herrings defending your favorite dictators.


[edit] When you make aspersions like that against other people it just makes you look like a big mouthed jackass blow hard Rob.

In fact you sound much like GW Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Bolton and Trump! You continue to treat me here like the lying Republican MIC Right Wing media hacks and Talk Back Radio thugs treated Valerie Plame and Joseph Wilson. [end edit]

All this because I quoted actual referenced true facts from Wikipedia? All this because your prior opinion was actually wrong on the face of it?

jeez man, why don't you blame me for Venezuela's Constitution too? You may as well for it would be as ludicrous.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2019, 03:20:49 AM by Lurk »

b_lumenkraft

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Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
« Reply #207 on: March 04, 2019, 07:20:05 PM »
Hey Lurk,

just wanted to let you know i totally agree with what you said there.

You shall fell understood. I appreciate your stands and writings on the topic.

ASILurker

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Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
« Reply #208 on: March 05, 2019, 03:24:57 AM »
Thanks L. At least 2 people understand what I am saying and why. You and me. :)

But I am very unpopular on this forum as the resident "black sheep" so you might not want to too closely align with me if you wish to remain respected by others, spoken to nicely, and not targetted for any 'mobbing'.

You might even want to delete that comment and only say such things privately to avoid any backlash. :(

ASILurker

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Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
« Reply #209 on: March 05, 2019, 03:27:09 AM »
Thanks L. At least 2 people understand what I am saying and why. You and me. :)

But I am very unpopular on this forum as the resident "black sheep" so you might not want to too closely align with me if you wish to remain respected by others, spoken to nicely, and not targetted for any 'mobbing'.

You might even want to delete that comment and only say such things privately to avoid any backlash. :(

b_lumenkraft

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Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
« Reply #210 on: March 05, 2019, 06:54:27 AM »
I don't want respect. I'm not here for sympathy. I'm here to learn. I'm interested in the truth and good arguments.

So, no! I will not delete that, i'm good. :)

Rob Dekker

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Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
« Reply #211 on: March 05, 2019, 06:58:31 AM »
Venezuela is bankrupt, and Maduro is already selling the last assets (the gold from the Venezuelan Central Bank), yet some still believe in him, and prefer to attack the messenger (me in this thread) instead.

I see that I won't be making any friends here by explaining the facts about how bad it is, but here you go :

That's because the Venezuelan hyperinflation is caused ONLY by Maduro simply printing money to pay his bills.
Facts never seem to bother you . you just walk on by :)

It's actually economics 101 :
If you double the amount of money in circulation (by printing money) without changing the assets the money is based upon, then the value of that money is cut in half (100% inflation).

Maduro has been printing money like there is no tomorrow (literally) and as a result inflation rate is now exceeding 1,000,000 percent per year.

This is how that looks like :



That's what you get if your government prints money to pay its bills.
 
If there are any other "facts" that you believe explain a 1,000,000 percent inflation rate, I'm interested in your argument.

Go ahead. Take your time.

Quote
Quote
After he killed the country's oil production, and got Venezuela deep in debt with the Russians and the Chinese, Maduro had no income left over.

fantasy fictions .. you're really grabbing at straws here. what's being in debt to someone got to do with no income left?

I assert that (oil) income is now lower than Venezuela's debt obligations.
Which means the country has NEGATIVE net income.
Which means that Maduro needs to sell assets just stay afloat.

He is currently stealing from the domestic economy by printing money, and selling gold from the Central Bank, but neither one will last long.

Beyond that, the only assets left over that he can sell to his debtors (mostly Russia and China) are the state companies.

Quote
When up above you were making all these assertions their production was still high and exports to the USA had not fallen as per IEA data . Bait and switch is it?

You may have missed that graph I posted like ... three times :



So No. Under Maduro, production was cut more than in HALF compared to the Hugo Chavez times.
That (cut in half) is reflected in the US purchases of Venezuela oil too, per the EIA.

So the US did not treat Venezuela differently over time, contrary to some claims made here on this thread that the US caused the Venezuelan crisis.

Is that clearer ?

Quote

Quote
stole everything there is to steal ....

And your evidence for this latest claims is ............ ??

If you print money in the amounts Maduro does, you cause hyperinflation, which is essentially stealing from everyone who trades in your currency (which are the Venezuelan people).
 
Even worse, you are stealing the savings from the little guys (who did not convert their savings to dollars), and you are giving to the rich guys, who see their tax burden eliminated.

At least Chavez policies benefitted the poor.
Maduro's policies on the other hand benefits the rich and his friends in the military.

Here is a good overview of facts by VOX, which Neven will probably also call "establishment propaganda" :

« Last Edit: March 05, 2019, 08:03:14 AM by Rob Dekker »
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Neven

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Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
« Reply #212 on: March 05, 2019, 09:04:46 AM »
We can discuss what exactly has caused Venezuela's economic downturn, but it is all besides the point. The point actually is that we're discussing it at all, and that's because there's an excessive attention for this subject because it serves the interests of the diseased system we live in. There are dozens of similar examples in the world, but we never give those any thought. So, apparently, it's the mass media that determines what we care about (looking at you, Rob).

Just yesterday I walked around on Jakominiplatz in Graz, which is where the bus station is. There's this huge screen in the middle with ads and the latest news, gossip, no sound, just text. I briefly looked up at it and what did I see? Bloody Guaido's face, with accompanying texts about whether he would be arrested or not. Anyone who has read Manufacturing Consent or watched the documentary, understands what is happening here.

And for the US it's the following:

1) Getting Venezuela's oil by installing a neoliberal government, 2) Preventing the spread of socialist democracies in Latin America, as has been done so many times before in Latin America, 3) Russiagate-level distraction from Trump corruption and the roots of what is crippling US society, 4) Preventing social democracy from spreading in the US itself, by coupling the Venezuela's 'socialist dictatorship, which always fails' to progressives, forcing them to fall into the trap of acknowledging talking points. It's used as a stone around the neck of true progressives.

Anyone who calls himself a liberal or progressive or lefty in general should fight this tooth and nail, or at the very least ignore all the oligarchic talking points. Anyone who doesn't and wants to endlessly discuss whether 'Maduro is a commie dictator who steals from his own people', simply has neocon leanings and doesn't understand a thing about war, only ever having known peace and wealth. Looking at you again, Rob.
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sidd

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Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
« Reply #213 on: March 05, 2019, 09:27:23 AM »
Re: evil dictators

Since the title has "Empire" in the name, i seem to recall that Empires act this way. They make dictators they like forawhile, then unmake them. Or first they deem someone a dictator and unmake them and appoint their temporary stooge. Hell, in the old days the CIA woulda sprung Lopez outta chokey, bribed enuf generals, had Maduro hanging from a lamppost within a single news cycle. Come to think of it, they tried that with Chavez, but it kinda didnt work.

But i must say, Guaido is quite a joke, even compared to the standard of Empire stooge. That's why i thought Lopez, he has more credibility as stooge.

sidd
 

ASILurker

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Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
« Reply #214 on: March 05, 2019, 09:45:29 AM »
I don't want respect. I'm not here for sympathy. I'm here to learn. I'm interested in the truth and good arguments.

So, no! I will not delete that, i'm good. :)

Way to go! :)

ASILurker

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Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
« Reply #215 on: March 05, 2019, 09:50:36 AM »
I'll take this one part at a time.

Venezuela is bankrupt

Says who? You?

The value of a banknote and inflation is irrelevant to the defined concept of National Bankruptcy. 

If Venezuela is Bankrupt that should be easy to prove using credible sources.

'Go ahead. Take your time.' :)

ASILurker

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Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
« Reply #216 on: March 05, 2019, 09:53:40 AM »

This is how that looks like :


That's what Social media Tropes and Memes look like. How about some credible evidence instead?

Quote

If there are any other "facts" that you believe explain a 1,000,000 percent inflation rate, I'm interested in your argument.

Prove that using OBJECTIVE credible UNBIASED sources. Newsprint not good enough.

Go Ahead, take your time. :)

ASILurker

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Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
« Reply #217 on: March 05, 2019, 09:59:12 AM »

It's actually economics 101 :
If you double the amount of money in circulation (by printing money) without changing the assets the money is based upon, then the value of that money is cut in half (100% inflation).


Yes that's true. The value of the "paper money" does change due to inflation as well as Governments like the USA has been doing since 2008 with the FED 'printing money' - in kind.

But here is some real  Economics:101 for you Rob - the Value of the Assets that underpin that monetary values does NOT change. The Gold is still worth what it was the day before - if they could get it out of the Bank of London.

The Oil Reserves are not worth one USD less than they were the day before. This is economics:101 Rob.

It's quite different to RobEconomics:101 :)

Rob Dekker

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Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
« Reply #218 on: March 05, 2019, 10:04:26 AM »
We can discuss what exactly has caused Venezuela's economic downturn, but it is all besides the point. The point actually is that we're discussing it at all, and that's because there's an excessive attention for this subject because it serves the interests of the diseased system we live in. There are dozens of similar examples in the world, ...

Sorry to interrupt, Neven, but seriously :

Name ONE other country that has or had in excess of 1,000,000 percent inflation rate.
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ASILurker

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Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
« Reply #219 on: March 05, 2019, 10:05:59 AM »
So the US did not treat Venezuela differently over time, contrary to some claims made here on this thread that the US caused the Venezuelan crisis.

Is that clearer ?

Yes you have not read what I have said correctly and you have not seen all the refs provided in the last 3 pages. You're still pushing the same beliefs you had originally - and information and data has made no difference to those beliefs. You are really arguing about arguing.

What I actually think and what I have actually said myself (and mean by that) is totally irrelevant and alien to what you say and think here.  Any common ground has collapsed under our feet. As a result there is nothing left now to build a real dialogue upon. It is what it is.

Neven

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Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
« Reply #220 on: March 05, 2019, 11:29:06 PM »
Quote
Whenever the regime change war criminals want to launch an invasion, they first have to launch a narrative. They first have to get you to agree to the pretext of why they have to go in. And the pretext is always 'X is a bad guy, he gasses his own people'. That's what they said about Saddam Hussein, that's what they said about Moammar Ghaddafi, that's what they said about Assad, and that's what they're saying about Maduro. And so when you repeat 'I think Maduro is a bad guy, but I don't think we should go in', what you're doing, is you're actually affirming the CIA's bullshit pretext for a coup and an invasion and a regime change war. You're actually doing more damage than you're doing good.

You're actually supporting the Koch brothers to get their dirty claws on Venezuela's heavy oil. I'm still looking at you, Rob, and whoever is simply incapable or unwilling to look through Trump's cowardly attempt at getting a better deal.

Jimmy Dore has legendary journalist Greg Palast on, and they hit it out of the ball park (yet again):

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ASILurker

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Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
« Reply #221 on: March 06, 2019, 04:07:17 AM »
Next up


ASILurker

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Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
« Reply #222 on: March 06, 2019, 04:14:36 AM »
US threatens ‘secondary sanctions’ against those nations who refuse to back its Venezuela coup
Published time: 6 Mar, 2019
“Secondary sanctions, it’s clearly a possibility,” Abrams said at a press conference, warning that a decision to sanction third party countries “would depend on the conduct of the [Venezuelan] regime over time.”

So far some 54 countries [ of 200 countris ] have bowed to US pressure and recognized the self-proclaimed ‘interim president’ Juan Guaido, who since January has been rallying support for regime change. Whilst the US claims the “momentum is good” to get more countries on board, the majority of the world’s countries and population rejected Washington’s “imperialist” ambitions, Colin Cavell, associate professor of political science at Bluefield State College, told RT.

The US administration is “internationalizing the Venezuelan conflict on a very dangerous basis... threatening other countries who deal with Venezuela, saying that if you do not support our sanctions, we are going to impose sanctions on you,” Cavell explained.

https://www.rt.com/news/453114-us-threatens-secondary-sanctions-venezuela/

Rob Dekker

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Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
« Reply #223 on: March 06, 2019, 08:28:36 AM »
<snip, you can continue to repeat war machine propaganda all you want, it remains irrelevant. Only two things are relevant: This is all about Trump's swamp cronies getting their filthy hands on the dirty oil, and it's about smearing 'socialism' both at home and abroad. So, I'm not letting you spread that poison here. N.>

Two remarks on that :

1) Under Maduro there is no socialism. I already explained above that his domestic financial policy (of printing money) steals from the average Venezuelan and benefits the rich.
That's the OPPOSITE of socialism.

2) I did not post any "war machine propaganda". I just posted some facts about the crisis in Venezuela.

Neven, you censoring any dissent from your own pro-Maduro opinion is getting out of hand.
It's not you, it's not healthy and its not normal.

So please let my post stand.

Here it is again :

---

There are at least three FACTS about Venezuela that neither of you guys here seem to get :

1) Venezuela is bankrupt.

It's foreign currency bonds trade at "RD" (Restricted Default) which is just one tick above Bankruptcy.
http://cbonds.com/countries/Venezuela-bond
These bonds were trading 20 cts on the dollar as of Dec 2018, which means that investors don't expect to get more than 20 cts back for every dollar invested.

In fact, Bankruptcy status would be better, because then there would be some sort of debt restructuring plan. That's why these bonds showed an up-tick in January when the US announced sanctions against Venezuela's oil industry. Here for example is are some bonds that mature in 2020 :
https://www.bourse.lu/security/USP97475AG56/94852

At 30 cts to the dollar, Venezuela is still trading below "junk" rating, but hey, if you think there is nothing wrong with the Venezuelan economy, by all means, BUY these bonds. Next year when they mature, and Maduro pays the full dollar amount back to you, you will make a killing !

For the rest of us, who see the writing on the wall, we pay attention to stuff like this :
https://nypost.com/2019/02/01/venezuelas-maduro-to-sell-gold-reserves-to-prop-up-regime/

Maduro is so desperate for cash that it is starting to sell the gold from the central bank.

That's a sure sign your country is done for, financially.

2) People are starving.

None of you guys seem to understand the human suffering.

You let Jimmy Dore say that life is Venezuela is "normal" and Max Blumenthal shops on a dollar store in Caracas, so all must be nice and dandy.

Yet three million Venezuelans left the country already, and if nothing changes, the UN expects another 2 million refugees out of Venezuela this year.

That would rival the refugee crisis from Syria, folks.

And the country who took in the bulk of Venezuelan refugees ? Colombia.
While Trump wants to build a wall, Colombia kept its borders open.

And Colombians are doing everything they can to help their fellow Venezuelans.

This report gave me hope :



3) Maduro is done for.

He led the country into a financial crisis, an economic crisis, a humanitarian crisis, and a political crisis.

Just think about it : If you drove the economy of your country into the ground like Maduro just did, and millions of your citizens are leaving your country because they are starving, and you have violated the constitution of your predecessor (Hugo Chavez) at least THREE times, and rigged the elections multiple times, while polls show that 80% of the people of your country want you OUT, then wouldn't you realize that maybe, just maybe, it's time for somebody else to take over ?

Any other leader would voluntarily resign and call for new elections.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2019, 07:53:20 AM by Rob Dekker »
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Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
« Reply #224 on: March 06, 2019, 08:50:29 AM »
You're actually supporting the Koch brothers to get their dirty claws on Venezuela's heavy oil. I'm still looking at you, Rob, and whoever is simply incapable or unwilling to look through Trump's cowardly attempt at getting a better deal.

Don't be so dramatic, Neven. The oil will still be owned by Venezuela.

It will take massive debt-restructuring and re-financing by the IMF, but we can get Venezuela back on her feet.
 
Now that they know that the Chavez/Maduro way doesn't work, I suggest they model their country after Norway.

And then find a way to phase out their dependence on oil.
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Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
« Reply #225 on: March 06, 2019, 12:59:38 PM »
What a great idea, Rob! Hurrah for neoliberalism!

PS When you say 'we', does that mean you, Bolton, Trump, Pompeo and Abrams? Or are other good people who blindly follow war criminals included as well?
Il faut comparer, comparer, comparer, et cultiver notre jardin

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Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
« Reply #226 on: March 07, 2019, 02:31:04 AM »
Sophistry by a pathological narcissist and an ignorant stupid pig?

    In order to undermine the constitutional basis for @jguaido interim Presidency, #Putin’s #Russia repeatedly describes him as the “self proclaimed” President of #Venezuela.
    And so does @CNN #RussianCollusion ?
    — Marco Rubio (@marcorubio) March 5, 2019


    @WashingtonPost do you refer to Speaker Pelosi as the “opposition leader”?
    Then why do you use that term for @jguaido the President of the democratically elected National Assembly of #Venezuela? ⁦
    I thought #democracydiesindarkness https://t.co/z7uh8Qo5at
    — Marco Rubio (@marcorubio) March 5, 2019


    .@WSJ More nations recognize ⁦@jguaido⁩ than #Maduro as legitimate President of #Venezuela
    And he’s President of the democratically elected National Assembly.
    Why then do you describe him as the “opposition leader”? https://t.co/dBx8p8QVqf
    — Marco Rubio (@marcorubio) March 5, 2019

Maybe because he IS the self-appointed leader / spokesperson of the Opposition 'Parties' - there's a thought.

Because that is the semantics they use in Venezuela - he not a member of the current President's Party - he is in Opposition. Same goes in Australia, the UK and gosh dozens of other countries. If Rubio wasn't just another really dumb but lying manipulative American politician he'd already know that. LOL

The American people have no chance of surviving until asshats like Rubio are no longer voted into Office. Don't hold your breath.

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Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
« Reply #227 on: March 07, 2019, 07:25:38 AM »
One of the few Western journalists still reporting from within Venezuela will be deported :

An American freelance journalist with legal residence in Venezuela was arrested on Wednesday along with his Venezuelan assistant by the country’s military counterintelligence service, the latest episode in an expanding crackdown on press freedom amid the country’s long-running political crisis.

The authorities held the reporter, Cody Weddle, 28, for several hours at the headquarters of the Directorate General of Military Counterintelligence after searching his apartment, Mr. Weddle said in a voice message late Wednesday. He was then told he was going to be deported and was taken to the airport by armed men, he said.



https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/06/world/americas/cody-weddle-journalist-venezuela.html
« Last Edit: March 07, 2019, 07:30:45 AM by Rob Dekker »
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Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
« Reply #228 on: March 07, 2019, 09:01:20 AM »
One of the few Western journalists still reporting from within Venezuela will be deported :

An American freelance journalist with legal residence in Venezuela was arrested on Wednesday along with his Venezuelan assistant by the country’s military counterintelligence service, the latest episode in an expanding crackdown on press freedom amid the country’s long-running political crisis.

The authorities held the reporter, Cody Weddle, 28, for several hours at the headquarters of the Directorate General of Military Counterintelligence after searching his apartment, Mr. Weddle said in a voice message late Wednesday. He was then told he was going to be deported and was taken to the airport by armed men, he said.



https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/06/world/americas/cody-weddle-journalist-venezuela.html
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Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
« Reply #229 on: March 07, 2019, 09:06:18 AM »
What a great idea, Rob! Hurrah for neoliberalism!

Sure, Neven.

If not the IMF, who else do you suggest is going to pay for the $50 billion in debt that Venezuela is currently defaulting on ?

You ?
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Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
« Reply #230 on: March 07, 2019, 09:18:17 AM »
What a great idea, Rob! Hurrah for neoliberalism!

Sure, Neven.

If not the "neoliberal" IMF, who else do you suggest is going to pay for the $50 billion in debt that Venezuela is currently defaulting on ?

You ?
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Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
« Reply #231 on: March 07, 2019, 03:45:26 PM »
US taxpayers and the citizens in general are the one's who keep on paying, and paying and paying.

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Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
« Reply #232 on: March 08, 2019, 02:09:07 AM »
What a great idea, Rob! Hurrah for neoliberalism!

Sure, Neven.

If not the "neoliberal" IMF, who else do you suggest is going to pay for the $50 billion in debt that Venezuela is currently defaulting on ?

You ?

Concern Troll

Americans also end up paying for such lies and manipulations with life and limb.

Venezuela Debt $50 Bln = $1,613 per person

USA Debt $22,000 Bln = $66,666 per person

USA Interest Payments per year @ 3% = $660 Billion per year every year

Total Venezuelan Debt $50 Bln (according to Rob) Interest = $1.5 Billion per year = Chicken Feed

"you support a dictator who gases his own people"

"you support an dictator who is stealing from his own people"

"you support  a Government that is Bankrupt"

"you support a dictator whose people are starving and won''t allow humanitarian aid to come in"

... and on and on goes the Concern Troll. It's what they do.  It's all they got.

Maybe a course in Debating or Economics or Political Science or Psychology or History might help?

I seriously doubt that. :)

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Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
« Reply #233 on: March 08, 2019, 03:32:38 AM »
People in glass houses should not be throwing stones at others.

Let's take California as an example of "free and fair" elections and the way that "Democracy" does not work in the USA.

2018 Mid-term Elections and the Feinstein's Senate seat was up for Voting by the people.

The Voters were given only two choices - A Democrat named Diane Feinstien or a Democrat no one remembers their name.

There was no GOP Republican option for Conservative Voters to Vote for. 
There was no Greens candidate for Greens pro-Climate pro-Social Justice Voters to Vote for.
There was no Libertarian for pro-individual liberty, pro-personal Rights, small Govt Voters to Vote for.
There was no genuine Independent Candidate to Vote for.

The "Democratic Choice" in California was to Vote for Diane Feinstien or a nobody!

This is Institutional gerrymandering across California State. It's a Fraud.

This is active Systemic Voter Suppression to lower the Voter Turnout.

This is not what a genuine Democracy looks like. It's a fraudulent undemocratic electoral system.

It's a Con and no one, in particular people such as Rob and Martin, who remain silent about these multiple election Frauds and the abuse of Human Rights across the USA have a leg to stand on.

People in glass houses who know next to nothing about Venezuela's Constitution and Democratic Electoral System and Media and Economic realities and then criticise it are fundamentalist hypocrites. 

Now if Greg Palast was the only journalist in the world saying the things he was saying that he has seen with his own eyes and reported on for almost 2 decades now then that would be grounds to dismiss his "opinions and reports" and not automatically believe what he says. But he is not alone - his reports are consistent with other reports from the field on the ground and people who are highly educated in History and the like. Such as Academics and some Journalists.

Unfortunately for the people who believe that California and Georgia are a functioning enlightened Democracies  Greg Palast is reporting the truth of it - whereas the MSM and Political hacks and Liars (along with misguided twisted forum / social media comments) are not.

Quote
18:03 .... the problem is that Democrats have their hands dirty with voter suppression I hate that word that's why I can't get on national petroleum radio (NPR) because I because I won't I won't use a term vote suppression like Ari Berman would you know he's you know everything's like soft yeah and he says vote suppression and I said "When your cars stolen do you say your car has been suppressed?"

https://youtu.be/gs-FiLFFDnk?t=1075

Quote
01:08 I was down in Georgia right right and I uncovered I uncovered a mass  - I sued the Secretary of State who's running for governor running his own election Brian Kemp and I sued him for his for the names of all people were purged from the voter rolls.

I then hired four firms from Silicon Valley wasn't cheap - it wasn't easy this is not lazy fuckism investigation - this is investigative okay and I hired four firms to go through name by name and go through records and determined that 340,000,134 Georgians were illegally removed from the voter rolls.
https://youtu.be/gs-FiLFFDnk?t=52

Quote
01:44 That's what elected the schmuck Brian Kemp okay after Kemp was elected through this steal the New York Times calls me up and says can you send us all your files? Hahaha and I said well unlike your stories all my files aren't only five pages, a document that I can send you. It's five file cabinets of research that's been built up. I was investigating Georgia for five years my friends!
 https://youtu.be/gs-FiLFFDnk?t=103

This comment of mine is not a matter of "whataboutery" but about critical issues addressing extreme bias, self-delusions, denial, ethics, principles, holistic perspectives, awareness, and true knowledge.



There is more than enough abuses of Democracy and the Media inside the borders of the USA to keep the citizens there busy trying to FIX IT for at least a century.

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Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
« Reply #234 on: March 08, 2019, 03:48:47 AM »
Pasty white establishment rich guy in Georgia Brian Porter Kemp (born November 2, 1963) is an American businessman and politician who is the 83rd and incumbent governor of the U.S. state of Georgia, in office since 2019.[1] A member of the Republican Party, he previously was the Secretary of State of Georgia and a member of the Georgia State Senate.

In 2015, Kemp's Secretary of State office distributed the Social Security numbers and dates of birth of over 6.2 million Georgia voters.

In 2018, Kemp was a candidate for governor. After coming in second place in the Republican primary, he defeated Lieutenant Governor Casey Cagle in the Republican runoff with 69% of the vote. In the general election, he faced Democratic nominee Stacey Abrams.

Kemp notably refused to resign as secretary of state while campaigning for governor, a move that some critics claimed constituted a conflict of interest. Following the general election on November 6, Kemp was declared the winner with 50.2% of the vote
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Kemp

Congress Posted Mar 6, 2019
Georgia Gov. Brian Kemp brushes off House investigation of voter suppression
Voter purges, suspended registration applications, and long Election Day lines led to accusations of voter suppression
https://www.rollcall.com/news/house-democrats-investigating-georgia-gov-brian-kemp-for-voter-suppression

Like how on the ball is JIMMY DORE and GREG PALAST?

Georgia Governor Brian Kemp Faces Investigation by House Panel
March 6, 2019
The House Oversight and Reform Committee is investigating allegations of voter suppression in Georgia under Secretary of State Brian Kemp, who has since become governor.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/06/us/politics/governor-brian-kemp-voter-suppression.html


No, no , no , no , no , look over there .. see Venezuela -- people eating out of garbage bins just like the Sick Poor Disabled Homeless People do in the United States of America .... but they have no sanctions, no embargoes, no $Blns being held by enemies overseas, no financial restrictions on them but they do have a a LYING IDIOT as President ... all duly elected by the Greatest Bestest  Democracy on Planet Earth --- or so they say and demand that you believe it.

Pooh Phooey Phuckism Writ large :)

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Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
« Reply #235 on: March 08, 2019, 04:13:27 AM »
Continuing on because this really matters regarding the never-ending deceptions which extends to places like Venezuela and the level of denial going on in the people who believe the MSM BS, HRC, the Democratic Party "spin-zone" as well as Donald Trump Bolton Rubio et al

Quote
19:55 I actually got the numbers from the office of the CA Secretary of State Alex Padilla former Hispanic who was one of the campaign managers for Hillary Clinton while she's running against Bernie Sanders and he's counting the PRIMARY Votes or NOT counting, what they did was not there were almost 1 million about 900,000 votes which are disqualified - I've never seen that much I didn't see that in Alabama. [...]

20:43 They knew and this was deliberate of course this chaos was deliberate and they got disqualified on technical means we know that 3 out of 4 n PP voters as they call these independent voters we're gonna had voted for Sanders so Sanders victory in California primary was in this dumpster of 900,000 votes.

21:31 Why am I off on these elections is because if they do it in California, you think they give a fuck about who right we're really doing who people really want in Venezuela? Or hey okay if they're stealing your vote in Hollywood - they're gonna fucking steal your vote in Venezuela and and they know that - the dark-skinned Venezuelans know that!

And I'm sorry if you don't like that term but that's the Negro-Indio of Venezuela - they don't want this white guy picked by Trump!

They (Trump, Koch Bros, Pelosi, Rubio, and Rob et al,) don't give a fuck and the media doesn't give a fuck because they've made the decision about who that president should be ......

https://youtu.be/gs-FiLFFDnk?t=1185

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Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
« Reply #236 on: March 08, 2019, 05:18:04 AM »
German ambassador to Venezuela declared persona non grata

German Ambassador Daniel Kriener has been told to leave Venezuela within 48 hours. He has been accused by the Maduro government of meddling in Venezuela's internal affairs.

More than 50 countries, including Germany, have recognized Guaido as the legitimate leader of Venezuela. The 35-year-old politician has pledged to set up a transitional government and hold new elections to unseat Maduro, who is backed by China, Russia and Turkey.

https://www.dw.com/en/german-ambassador-to-venezuela-declared-persona-non-grata/a-47798421


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Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
« Reply #237 on: March 08, 2019, 05:29:28 AM »
Jimmy, Palast and Lurk are talking to you Rob, and to Martin and to .......

Palast, then Jimmy cuts to the chase and tells it like it really is - again
https://youtu.be/gs-FiLFFDnk?t=1360

Lurk copies and pastes the truth of it - Quote: 

22:50 The only people more unpopular than Maduro in Venezuela is his opposition right! Quaido he's like Maduro both are not popular. Maduro is like an unpopular president - this often happens I mean you know I mean he's like Obama - in 2010 was incredibly unpopular in the United States Uou're right but nobody wanted overthrow Obama - why don't we invite the GOP candidate to overthrow Obama because his popularity dropped to 35%?

But yeah like you say Maduro is not popular but he's more popular than his opposition, than the fascists, and the oil company Stooges that are being imposed on the nation!

That's a story that's not being told and again and then you have to look at phonies like let me go north, Justin Trudeaux who come you know, the American press loved him because he talks all about how unlike Trump he's worried about global warming.

He's the number-one salesman of Tar Sands Shit via the Keystone Pipeline which is burning up the planet and the reason he wants the Venezuelan government overthrown, the reason why he's in love with the Embargo against Venezuela he's a big proponent of the embargo against Venezuela because he has got the the Heavy Oil that that is competing directly with the Venezuelan Oil to feed the Koch Texas Refineries!

and you know that is true, and you know it's like this - Hello!!!

[ Jimmy now goes goes for the throats of all the bullshit artists (talking to you Rob) ]

You don't have to be a great investigative reporter or a bad one - all you ever do is look down the street that's exactly right. All you have to do is look at what's happening!


We got Donald Trump wanting to invade a country that's got more oil reserves in Saudi Arabia do you really need more information than that? But apparently people like Rachel Maddow and people like Jake Tapper and people like Wolf Blitzer (and people like Rob and Martin et al) every asswipe at the New York Times and Washington Post they all need more information somehow

[ --- like OMG what about that $50 Billion of Debt Venezuela has - it's because he's a Dictator, arrested some journalists and media execs, deported a US Journo yesterday, plus he has stolen all the money from the Venezuelan people, it's because they are a Socialist Democracy supported by the EVIL Cuban people and it's Government and Military, supported by China, Russia, and India, Turkey, and a clear majority of all other nations ~150 of them all up - most fo them NOT WHITE but Dark Brown and Yellow!!! OMG the sky is falling !!! --- ]

24:53 This is what makes me angry - is that if I know it, I know they know it, and they're just bullshit horrible liars and propagandists! Read Manufacturing Consent that's why those people - you ever see the movie Broadcast News w William Hurt? that's who they are!

They're chosen, they're Johnny Bravo, they fit the suit baby. It's not because they're journalists "I'm gonna tell you the truth or even inform you, did I give a fuck if you're informed?

Rachel Maddow's got the number one show on cable news and she's been misinforming people added up at a nuclear level for the last two and a half years. It's not about informing you. It's not it's about making money.

And right now you make more money for your overlords if you go along with a foreign invasion and that just shows you that they have zero integrity. I, a guy who in his garage, a jagoff nightclub comedian, C student can do journalism ten times better than them and why?

Because I'm not bought and I can tell you the truth just like Greg says all I have to do is look down the street Hey look there's a half a million people and demonstrating in favor of Maduro. All I have to do is do that. All I ever do is look at Max Blumenthal's video from inside a supermarket in Caracas inside Venezuela to know they're all full of shit.

All I have to look is at Abby Martin's video to see a million people in the street for Maduro. That's all you have to do. They can do that just like me then. Pretending they don't know any better is bullshit!

[ Yes he's talking to you Rob! And to you too Martin, and to ....... ]

And so and it's funny how they want to throw conspiracy theory around to silence people who are telling the truth - you support Maduro the Dictator who is stealing all the money, smears Rob - the truth that the corporate media won't tell.

And 99% of the lefty media too fucking worthless on this topic as they are worthless on Russia Gate. They're just as shitty as the Corporate News. It's like they all want to be corporate news but guess who doesn't want to be corporate news? ME!

Because I made my bones in comedy. All the people I want to impress in my fucking life I already did. They're in comedy okay? These people in journalism I have no respect for, fucking zero!

I don't want to impress David Korn or Rachel Maddow or some asshole at the fucking Washington
Post. I'm gonna expose them for being the piece of shit propagandists they fucking are. Suck when it comes to Israel Syria Venezuela Russia Gate - it's fucking easy for a dumb motherfucker like me who smokes pot when he wakes up to do a ten-times better job than they're doing.

It's fucking easy and I want to say thank you for sucking so hard - my show's about to cross 500,000 subscribers!

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Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
« Reply #238 on: March 08, 2019, 05:44:45 AM »
A note about how dumb and gullible PM Justin Trudeau and the Canadian Business operators are:

So Justin is backing the long term Sanctions, Embargoes and the latest Coup in Venezuela. Great this means Venezeuala cannot keep up it's production of Oil nor ship it to the USA like ti has for over 2 decades now. They ship it to ONE Refinery, the one owned owned by the KOCH Bros in Texas. It's only a few hundred miles from Venezuela.

PM Dufus Justin rubs his hands expecting his Tar Sands Oil exports to grow enormously via the Keystone XL Pipeline that delivers Canadian Heavy Oil to that very same Oil refinery - the only one of it;s type in the USA.

But no Justin doesn't stop there, he keeps up the pressure of his own Government, a leftie backs in the Neocons in the Trump Administration for Regime Change to topple the Legitimate Govt. of Venezuela even if it means a civil war or an invasion. 

But there's a serious gap in his logic and common sense. Because once Trump wins, and Maduro is toppled, and Guaido actually becomes the new president in a USA Canadian backed Coup, then Guaido then re-privatises the entire Oil Industry, opens up the doors for US Oil Giants including ig the Koch Brothers to come into Venezuela, fix the production problems and very soon after the Koch Texas Refinery is receiving Venezuelan Oil at a fraction of the price they were paying for the Canadian Tar Sands oil ... more than that Venezuelan Oil is cheaper to refine that Canadian Oil ... and so all of a sudden Canadian Oil exports PLUMMET

........ and / or the Trump Administration circa 2020-2024 decides the Keystone XL Pipeline was not a great deal for the Native American Indians and the transit States and so he KILLS THE PIPELINE on "environmental grounds" and shuts the whole thing down completely.

Then Justin will look like the SCHMUCK that he really is. Just another Neo-liberal IDIOT Politician being suckered by the US Empire of liars, thieves and cheats.

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Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
« Reply #239 on: March 08, 2019, 06:19:47 AM »
And what does all this have to do with the ASIF or communicating the importance of Climate Science and pro-Climate Change actions in the world today?

The answer is everything!

Rob's signature states: "This is our planet. This is our time. Let's not waste either."
He says he totally supports the left leaning agendas of Bernie Sanders, his Policies and the Green New Deal presented by the Justice Democrats and AOC et al. Yet his own actions and his words proves what he really thinks. It proves how much of his time he is prepared to waste by supporting those who are diametrically opposed to such agendas.

He is not alone, and I am not picking on him - he's only the best example of that on this thread.

While the Trump Administration pushes Regime Change yet again, while Trump pushes the conspiratorial  myths about "Socialism" using AOC and Maduro and Cuba as his best examples of the imminent dangers of it, people like Rob jump onboard the Neocon Neoliberal Train founded and funded by the likes of Fossil Fuel advocates such as the Koch brothers and Adelson - also connected to the Pro-Irael Pro-Saudi Lobby presstitutes and Corporate world.

As a result social media and the MSM is chock full with headlines about Venezuela instead of the climate crisis. The UK, Canada, Norway, the EU, the European parliament, Australia,  New Zealand and all the rest of the nations who are supporting the Mike Pence appointed / anointed Guaido are not spending their time focusing on the latest news from Climate science, about the ASI, Land use, warming oceans, fish loss, record breaking growth in CO2 emissions and new records in atmospheric levels at the MLO this last month.

These Climate Change issues are not taking up any space in the front pages while Venezuela and RussiaGate, Robert Mueller, and Hezbollah and Israel, Turkey S400s and Syria, and of course Israel's latest threats to send it's tinpot Navy to sink Iranian Oil tankers -- all these things consume thousands of column inches on those front page day after day after day.

The public awareness and the focus of the planet are being endlessly distracted with lies and bullshit and deceit while the planet burns.

And the USA is still not an inch closer to rejoining the UNFCCC or the Paris Treaty and will not be for years to come.  So let's remind those who may have missed this posting of info to the ASIF about the reality of the United States of America and why it is, in fact, the #1 threat to life on planet earth bar none other.


Politics February 22, 2019
Conservatives Greatly Outnumber Liberals in 19 U.S. States
https://news.gallup.com/poll/247016/conservatives-greatly-outnumber-liberals-states.aspx

What's all this have to do with the ASIF? Everything! It is the elephant in the room.

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Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
« Reply #240 on: March 08, 2019, 08:06:39 AM »
It's not just the evil US who is asking for Maduro to step down :

Sweden says it sees Venezuela's Guaido as interim president :

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-venezuela-politics-sweden/sweden-says-it-sees-venezuelas-guaido-as-interim-president-radio-idUSKCN1PT0SK
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This is our planet. This is our time.
Let's not waste either.

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Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
« Reply #242 on: March 08, 2019, 10:06:07 AM »
Sanders during recent townhall:

Quote
I do find it interesting that Trump is very concerned about what goes on in Venezuela. But what about the last election that took place in Saudi Arabia? Oh, there wasn’t any election in Saudi Arabia. Oh, women are treated as third-class citizens. So I find it interesting that Trump is kind of selective as to where he is concerned about democracy.

You can just as well replace 'Trump' with 'Rob'. Every time the US wants to destabilize a country for ressources, the media gives full support by providing excessive attention, and the likes of Rob are there to uncritically spread every piece of propaganda that is handed to them. Zero nuance, zero self-awareness.

The whole Venezuela hype is about four things: 1) Getting Venezuela's oil by installing a neoliberal government, 2) Preventing the spread of socialist democracies in Latin America, as has been done so many times before in Latin America 3) Russiagate-level distraction from Trump corruption and the roots of what is crippling US society, 4) Preventing social democracy from spreading in the US itself, by coupling the Venezuela 'socialist dictatorship' to progressives, forcing them to fall into the trap of acknowledging talking points. It's used as a stone around the neck of true progressives.

You see, Rob claims he's a Bernie supporter, but his uncritical, unnuanced parroting establishment propaganda is directly undermining progressivism in the US. Never mind that he's helping create the conditions for another Iraq, Libya, Afghanistan, Syria, with his selective and conditioned critique of the dictatorship du jour. You cannot claim to be a Bernie supporter and then act as a warmongering neocon at every turn, perfectly echoing establishment war machine propaganda. You need to put some thought into it, read some history books, some Chomsky, and then choose what it actually is you stand for, instead of floating in this limbo of contradictions, cognitive dissonance and outright hypocrisy.

Speaking of Sanders, here's a very interesting discussion on his remarks on Venezuela during his CNN townhall, where the propaganda wheat is separated from the chaff:



Here is everything in a nutshell:
Quote
NORMAN SOLOMON: Well, If you look at what he said about the economy of Venezuela, I ....


OK. You made your point.
Rob is just the same as Trump, and "claims he's a Bernie supporter" but he is "parroting establishment propaganda".

Fine.

Now let's look at that video, and see what Bernie really said.

This is what Bernie really said about Venezuela :

1:27:
Quote
What’s going on in Venezuela is terrible.
The economy is a disaster.
People are living in hunger and in fear.
I strongly believe there has to be an international and humanitarian effort
to improve lives for the people.
I think the evidence is clear that the last election in Venezuela was not a free and fair election,
and under international supervision, I want to see a free and fair election.
I 100% agree with that.
Do you too, Neven ?
This is our planet. This is our time.
Let's not waste either.

Neven

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Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
« Reply #243 on: March 08, 2019, 01:06:01 PM »
I 100% agree with that.
Do you too, Neven ?

It's beside the point, and the people in the panel and Jimmy Dore explain what is wrong with it.

Is it still Venezuela you care about today, or has the press already moved on to something else for you to care about?
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Sterks

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Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
« Reply #244 on: March 08, 2019, 08:39:28 PM »
As I've understood it, US mainstream media is selling the narrative that people in socialist Venezuela are starving because there's no food and therefore Trump/Bolton/Abrams/Pompeo are sending humanitarian aid, whereas they are meddling and pushing for regime change to force Venezuela to join the neoliberal economics party, so they and their oligarch buddies can enrich themselves with Venezuelan oil.

If you are implying that it's all because Maduro can't handle the hyperinflation, and so now some Harvard agent can rightfully proclaim himself king, with the entire world simply ignoring international law and accepting him as such, then you are wrong.
Didn’t want to come back to this thread but curiosity killed the cat... and Wow I must say I am surprised you believe these distorted facts just like that. I thought I had seen everything from the MAGA tribe, but apparently the far left cant escape from their own stultifying set of myths...
Anyway this is an interesting video of a venezuelan living in America and trying to explain reality from confusion in the least possible ideological position.
And I lie you not, I have heard narrative along same lines told to me by Venezuelan refugees in Madrid, people that left their country with not much apart from willing to have a life with dignity. This Already started going south from the times of the other mofo, the insufferable Chaves, now happily sleeping the eternal dream after screwing all he could.
Confy in your cab in Northrn Europe? Enjoy! We are really lucky people.



Neven

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Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
« Reply #245 on: March 08, 2019, 09:28:13 PM »
Again, it's beside the point. There are dozens of countries similar to Venezuela and worse, but there's an excessive focus on Venezuela for the reasons I have mentioned several times now (oil, halting the spread of socialism both in the US and abroad). Why do we have to partake in this excessive focus which is arbitrary and serves to push narratives that benefit neoconservatism and neoliberalism (in other words, the things that are causing AGW and all kinds of other global misery, just so concentrated wealth can grow even bigger and more concentrated)?

Just by engaging in these discussions about the 'facts', you are helping Trump and the GOP. Just like climate risk deniers, they control the conversation by forcing their talking points on you.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2019, 09:39:19 PM by Neven »
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Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
« Reply #246 on: March 08, 2019, 09:40:58 PM »
Thankfully, there are other voices in the US that go beyond the irrelevant narratives:

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ASILurker

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Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
« Reply #247 on: March 09, 2019, 02:06:58 AM »
Sanders: I think the evidence is clear that the last election in Venezuela was not a free and fair election, and under international supervision, I want to see a free and fair election.

Which elections is he speaking about - I want to be sure.

The Presidential Election in 2018?

Or the last election for the Constituent Assembly?

Or the Constitutional Assembly Referendum?

Or the last election for the National Assembly where Guaido won his Assembly seat?

Or the last election for the eternally rotating seat of "President" of the National Assembly (the equivalent to being elected as the US House Speaker) ?

PS question:

Why do you keep picking on Neven Rob? As opposed to pointing out all the "errors" of fact and the many "disturbing" opinions found in my comments/posts?

You are coming across like you're on a personal crusade against Neven. Is his "opinion" far more important to you than the poor suffering souls in Venezuela? It sure looks like it. But I could be wrong, which is why I ask openly. :)

When will you have the courage and moral virtue to admit you don't know what you are talking about here? Are spreading false information here and acting as a Neoliberal Corporatists Donald Trump shill and nothing like a Progressive/Liberal pro-climate change action Bernie Sanders supporter - but instead operating as a typical Right Wing Warmongering Conservative GOP Voter?

I ask because that is precisely what you sound like Rob. Where is the Nuanced evidence based long term big-picture analysis? It's literally missing in action! :)
« Last Edit: March 09, 2019, 04:10:32 AM by Lurk »

ASILurker

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Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
« Reply #248 on: March 09, 2019, 02:13:07 AM »
German ambassador to Venezuela declared persona non grata

....who is backed by China, Russia and Turkey.

Plus over 70% of all nations of the world who represent even more the population of the world.

Denying the facts and not reporting on them does not make those facts go away Rob. That's what Propagandists do isn't it?

Maybe DW is just another arm of the Global Neoliberal MIC octopussy? Where the Ambassador is one of it's henchmen playing a role? :)


Democractic Party Rep. Ro Khanna says:
Quote
I was just in Venezuela what
04:49
is crippling the country is the economic
04:52
sanctions the government does not have
04:54
enough money to pay wages take care of
04:58
the needs of the people I suppose that
05:00
is the very effect that the Trump
05:02
administration wants to have


The UN High Commissioner for Human Rights, a Michelle Barcia, the former President of Chile said:
Quote
this situation has been
03:22
exacerbated by [US] sanctions and the
03:24
resulting current political economic
03:27
social institutional crisis is alarming

Why are you supporting the starvation, ill health and deaths of everyday Venezuelans Rob?

See, you are not the only person who can ask really manipulative questions of others to smear them. :)
« Last Edit: March 09, 2019, 04:17:08 AM by Lurk »

ASILurker

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Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
« Reply #249 on: March 09, 2019, 03:33:19 AM »
Anyway this is an interesting video of a venezuelan living in America and trying to explain reality from confusion in the least possible ideological position.

LOL oh boy that really made me cry laughing.

Quote
And I lie you not, I have heard narrative along same lines told to me by Venezuelan refugees in Madrid, people that left their country with not much apart from willing to have a life with dignity.

With their white skin and suit case full of US Dollars and jewellery.  :)

Damn if only I had seen this 5 minute "fact filled" rant by a wealthy well-to-do upper class white American Jewish lady on a couch!

Think of all the time I could have saved looking up historical and present day facts and the opinions of professionals and others from in and out of Venezuela. Man am I an idiot or what?
Quote

As a white Latina with a Jewish last name. [...] I think it's interesting to look at my family history, because my family history is a lot about immigration. On my father's side my grandparents were Holocaust survivors that went to Venezuela. On my mother's side it's Cuban exiles from Fidel Castro's regime. And my parents found each other — first generation Venezuelans. I was second generation Venezuelan and then I had to leave. So it's a lot of moving, and a lot of creating a new home in a new place.

And I feel very very proud to be Venezuelan. Particularly because the Venezuela that I was taught of was the Venezuela of inclusion, the Venezuela that opened its doors to immigrants. The Venezuela where the son of a Jewish family met a Cuban exile and had a child.
https://www.npr.org/2016/03/05/469211567/a-comedian-rants-on-different-latino-cultures

Yes, it is an Ideology free zone there for sure.

Quote
Joanna Hausmann is a Venezuelan-American comedian, writer, and actor who is critical of Nicolás Maduro’s authoritarian regime in Venezuela.
https://oslofreedomforum.com/speakers/joanna-hausmann
Quote
Related Pages Jorge Ramos Journalist (dig deeper if you dare)
https://www.facebook.com/joannahausmanncomedy/
Quote
Another Ideology free zone full of facts
https://www.instagram.com/johaus/?hl=en


Quote
Joanna Hausmann Jatar -- with comments by Jorge Ramos Journalist
‏Verified account @Joannahausmann
Feb 26
My grandma passed away because of lack of medicine. My uncle is imprisoned for posting articles against the government. My cousin was shot in a protest. My extended family has lost their life savings. But sure Brad, go ahead and tell me I don't understand Venezuela.
https://twitter.com/joannahausmann?lang=en

Joanna, you don't understand Venezuela or much else either. :)

Ideology free-zone here: Wikipedia says
Quote
She is the daughter of Harvard University economist Ricardo Hausmann, as well as journalist and former CNN en Español host, Ana Julia Jatar.

Her brother is Michel Hausmann, a Venezuelan theater director who endured a case of discrimination after an orchestra cancelled their collaboration with his production of Fiddler on the Roof, citing their concern for government funding under Hugo Chávez, who had been [accused of] inciting antisemitism.

[ Who hasn't been accused of anti-Semitism? It's a much shorter list as it has become an international Sport these days! ]

She is also the niece of well-known Venezuelan political prisoner, Braulio Jatar.

She is a [...]  vocal critic of the government of Nicolas Maduro in her native Venezuela.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joanna_Hausmann

No Ideology anywhere to be seen - not a bit! :)

Quote
Braulio Jatar Alonso
@BraulioJatarA

translated Tweet goes like this: Let us be clear that for the future of Venezuela, it is necessary to understand its past beyond twenty years. ["Communism has never come to power in a country that was not interrupted by war or corruption or, both"] John F. Kennedy
https://twitter.com/brauliojatara?lang=en

Quote
Braulio Jatar
Reporte Confidencial | Imprisoned in Venezuela | September 03, 2016

 a day after he reported on an anti-government protest, according to news reports and his wife, with whom CPJ spoke. [...] his sister told Reuters. [ ie Ana Julia Jatar in the USA mother of Joanna Hausmann ]

Jatar is also a lawyer and a political activist. In the 1990s he worked as a legal adviser to the Venezuelan Congress. He faced charges of extortion in 1991 and fled to Miami, according to news reports. He was later exonerated, according to reports.

The journalist, who is a dual Venezuelan-Chilean citizen, has worked closely with the former opposition mayor of Caracas, Antonio Ledezma. 

https://cpj.org/data/people/braulio-jatar/index.php

Why is that hundreds of other Journalists report on anti-government demonstrations, and other critical things against the Govt and yet all of them are not arrested as well? Something does not add up here.... the issue is not simply being an anti-government Journo

Quote
Braulio Jatar, un preso político que quiere ayudar a Venezuela a través de sus libros
“Ver el sufrir de mi hija o de mi hijo cuando me vieron con cabeza rapada, uniforme de preso y convertido en pellejo por la pérdida de más de veinte kilos, es un momento inolvidable”.
María Corina Roldán Robles | 10/11/2018
http://eltiempolatino.com/news/2018/oct/11/braulio-jatar-un-preso-politico-que-quiere-ayudar-/

Translation:
Quote
The humanitarian crisis in Venezuela is a well-known and discussed topic worldwide, but the harshness of the stories and suffering of each individual is lost due to the monumental amount of murder figures, deaths due to malnutrition, biblical migrations and evidence of Human Rights violations. .

Through the keyhole of the door that prevents us from seeing in detail all the horror that Venezuela is experiencing, we interviewed Braulio Jatar Alonso, editor of the Confidential Report web portal in that country and who according to the NGO Penal Forum, is one of the 262 political prisoners whose freedom has been deprived for opposing the regime of Nicolás Maduro.

But there's more to this story about the Hausmanns ..... and Joanna's obvious and overt personal  IDEOLOGICAL RACIAL CLASS BIASES :)
« Last Edit: March 09, 2019, 04:21:51 AM by Lurk »