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Rob Dekker

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Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
« Reply #300 on: March 14, 2019, 03:44:37 AM »
Greenwald rips US media for warmongering lies:

Is that the same Glenn Greenwald who gets paid more than half a million per year by an Ebay billionaire, and as a classic display of the RED-BROWN alliance frequently appears on Fox News with Tucker's white supremacy show ?



THAT Glenn Greenwald ?
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Rob Dekker

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Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
« Reply #301 on: March 14, 2019, 07:28:45 AM »
Contrary to Glenn Greenwald, who aggressively blames US media for spreading mis-information, here is a much more balanced report from TYT, which also rightfully so complements the New York Times for their investigation and their report :





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Rob Dekker

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Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
« Reply #302 on: March 14, 2019, 08:20:23 AM »
After accusing the US of bringing down the Venezuelan grid with a cyber attack, now the Maduro government found another cause :

https://www.cnn.com/2019/03/13/americas/venezuela-blackout-restored-intl/index.html

Quote
The Information Minister used to the press conference to accuse supporters of the opposition leader, and Venezuela's self-declared interim president, Juan Guaido, of trying to bring down the electrical grid by plugging in all their appliances.

You can't make this stuff up, folks.
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Neven

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Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
« Reply #303 on: March 14, 2019, 09:23:49 AM »
You can't make this stuff up, folks.

Just like Russian cyber attacks on electric utilities and election committees! When Maduro says it, you see through it. When corporate US media and the Pentagon say it, you immediately and unquestioningly believe it. Facts! ;D
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Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
« Reply #304 on: March 14, 2019, 09:30:31 AM »
which also rightfully so complements the New York Times for their investigation and their report :

2 weeks late!

Yay NYTs after weeks of fake news about the 23rd they finally print something accurate..... mind you this is after several months of other fake news and disinformation ... yay NYTs

Buy a subscription Rob 

Make a donation to Bellingcat, AIPAC and the GOP while you're at it.

Neven

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Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
« Reply #305 on: March 14, 2019, 10:57:32 PM »


Quote
And when it comes to what you ask about the internal situation, again, it is very clear that anybody who has the notion of national sovereignty, that a foreign intervention such as the one that Mr. Guaido is requesting, must be opposed. But on the other hand, we are also in a day-to-day reality. Venezuela is undergoing a very serious economic and social crisis that has been made worse by the sanctions that the U.S. administration has been imposing in an increasing manner since August 2017.

So the problem is that the longer this crisis and the status quo of this duality of power and the power struggle that is going on in the country, the longer this crisis lasts, the more the destructive or disruptive effect of these sanctions will affect Venezuelan people. And this is something that, again, I try to raise awareness about. The imposition of sanctions will not precipitate the collapse of the Venezuelan institutions, leading, as it is expected by the U.S., to Mr. Guaido assuming the presidency. As we have seen, Venezuelan political reality is much more complex, and it is obvious that to get out of this crisis, at least the two camps—you know, the government and Mr. Guaido; at least Chavismo and its historic opposition—will have to gather around the table and try to negotiate or agree some sort of political Venezuelan internal way out of the crisis.

And the fastest, the quickest that we get to that negotiating point, the better it will be for the Venezuelan people, because again, unfortunately, the U.S. administration has made it clear that they will keep increasing the pressure on the Venezuelan people, and more sanctions are to be expected. So again, this is a very, very dangerous situation for the Venezuelan people, who can be, you know, potentially deprived of having access to food or to medicines that already can be in short supply in some areas of the country. But at least as of today you can have access to food in Caracas, for instance, if you have the money to buy it. What will happen if the U.S. administration sanctions or punishes foreign banks that just engage in trade banking with Venezuela? So Venezuela will not be able even to purchase the food it requires? Again, this is extremely serious, extremely dangerous. And again, the only rational way of addressing it is trying to create conditions first, and then try to reach a negotiated deal out of the crisis.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2019, 11:07:39 PM by Neven »
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Rob Dekker

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Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
« Reply #306 on: March 15, 2019, 08:34:24 AM »
Washington post reports :

Maduro’s muscle: Politically backed motorcycle gangs known as 'colectivos' are the enforcers for Venezuela’s authoritarian leader

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/the_americas/maduros-muscle-politically-backed-motorcycle-gangs-known-as-colectivos-are-the-enforcers-for-venezuelas-authoritarian-leader/2019/03/13/2242068c-4452-11e9-94ab-d2dda3c0df52_story.html?utm_term=.42dd21e8acca

Quote
The attack on Sunday was a chilling sign of how President Nicolás Maduro is increasingly relying on paramilitary groups as he clings to power. This week, he publicly urged the motorcycle-riding “colectivos” to intensify their efforts, as the country teetered on the edge of economic collapse and a U.S.-backed opposition movement pressed for his ouster. 

And now it looks like this is what we will be getting in the US as well.
Trump posts :

Quote
"I have the support of the police, the support of the military, the support of Bikers for Trump -- I have tough people, but they don't play it tough until they go to a certain point and then it would be very, very bad."

Just like Putin and his Night Wolves.

These autocrats are all alike.
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Rob Dekker

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Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
« Reply #307 on: March 15, 2019, 09:08:13 AM »
For those of us concerned that the US would be 'taking' Venezuelan oil, here are the results from the last couple of weeks :

https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=PET&s=W_EPC0_IM0_NUS-NVE_MBBLD&f=W

So, no. The US is not 'taking' Venezuelan oil now at all.
In fact it is at an all-time low since the January sanctions.

Maduro : The imperialist US is after our oil !

US : OK, we'll stop buying it then.

Maduro : The imperialist US is killing Venezuela with their sanctions !

US : wait, what ?
« Last Edit: March 15, 2019, 09:20:40 AM by Rob Dekker »
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Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
« Reply #308 on: March 18, 2019, 05:51:17 AM »
Another Independent Journalist Exposes U.S. News Venezuela Propaganda w/Eva Bartlett

35 minutes review. now 506,000 subscribers - added 8,000 in less than a week.


Quote
Comments
Let venezuela handle its own country. #handsoffvenezuala #fomentingdiscord

Thank you for giving Eva so much air time. She is one of the few honest journalists left. Do not trust your government!

Damn lefty reporters with their facts and such.

"I have certain rules I live by. My first rule, I don't believe anything the government tells me. Nothing. ZERO!" -George Carlin

Quote
8:35
"well who did the attack on Venezuela's electrical grid? Right, it wasn't like yeah it might be a
worn down grid and they have been told they have power outages and they fix them in two hours, they fix them but the whole grid was down and it was attacked repeatedly and stations were physically attacked. So this is not a case of infrastructure failing. This is a premeditated attack that I know max Blumenthal has written about. The fact that this was already detailed years prior that the U.S. saw this as a way to put even more pressure on the population in Venezuela in order to turn against the government. "
« Last Edit: March 18, 2019, 06:36:09 AM by Lurk »

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Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
« Reply #309 on: March 19, 2019, 03:32:49 PM »



03:13
then came the sanctions which are harsh
03:17
brutal devastating the population and
03:21
again I quote Rodriguez the chief opposition
03:25
economist and a serious economist he
03:28
points out that the sanctions have
03:31
turned a crisis into a humanitarian
03:34
catastrophe and by now the latest
03:37
sanctions literally a bar the government
03:40
from almost any resources it's an effort
03:43
to starve the population into submission



04:01
the media again for ever since the
04:04
beginning of the Chavez years the media
04:08
have been virtually an open voice for
04:11
the anti chavez opposition in ways that
04:15
are almost unimaginable so

ASILurker

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Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
« Reply #310 on: March 20, 2019, 03:44:11 AM »





ASILurker

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Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
« Reply #311 on: March 20, 2019, 06:16:57 AM »
Journalist Glenn Greenwald, who has been an outspoken critic of Bolsonaro and who lives in Brazil, tweeted on Monday that during his time reporting on the infamous Edward Snowden files, he was repeatedly "warned" that the CIA's largest permanent presence is in Brazil due to the intelligence agency's Cold War activities, including its role in helping to overthrow Brazil's democratically elected government in 1964.

    During the Snowden reporting, I was repeatedly told/warned that CIA's largest permanent presence is in Brazil (due to Cold War roots when CIA helped overthrow Brazil's democratically elected government & then propped up the resulting military regime). It's worse now:
https://t.co/8TTnthrEeL
    — Glenn Greenwald (@ggreenwald) March 18, 2019

sidd

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Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
« Reply #312 on: March 21, 2019, 11:05:12 PM »

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Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
« Reply #313 on: March 22, 2019, 04:35:14 AM »
Mirroring the right wing racist CIA/Bolton backed corrupt Govt in Brazil ....

 ‘Armed terrorist cell’: Venezuela’s Interior Minister confirms arrest of Guaido’s aide
Published time: 21 Mar, 2019

 Venezuela’s Interior Minister has confirmed the arrest of self-proclaimed ‘interim president’ Juan Guaido’s chief of staff. The opposition claims he was ‘kidnapped’ while authorities say he was the leader of a ‘terrorist cell.’

Roberto Marrero was taken into custody on Thursday as part of the government raid against a “terrorist cell” that plotted to carry out attacks against top Venezuelan politicians, the Minister of the Interior, Justice and Peace, Néstor Reverol, said in a statement.

“Together with the Public Prosecutor's Office, the investigations led to the detention of the citizen, Roberto Eugenio Marrero Borgas, who is directly responsible for the organization of criminal groups,” he said.

The government also released images of two rifles allegedly seized by the Venezuelan Bolivarian National Intelligence Service (SEBIN) during the raid on Marrero’s house.

    Maduro has made another big mistake. The illegitimate arrest of Roberto Marrero, Interim President Juan Guaidó’s aide, will not go unanswered. He should be released immediately and his safety guaranteed.
    — John Bolton (@AmbJohnBolton) March 21, 2019

https://www.rt.com/news/454445-venezuela-terrorist-cell-guaido-aide/

tick tick tick

Rob Dekker

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Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
« Reply #314 on: March 23, 2019, 08:07:04 AM »
There are at least three FACTS about Venezuela that many of you guys here don't seem to get :

1) Venezuela is bankrupt.

Venezuela's foreign currency bonds trade at "RD" (Restricted Default) which is just one tick above Bankruptcy.
http://cbonds.com/countries/Venezuela-bond
These bonds were trading 20 cts on the dollar as of Dec 2018, which means that investors don't expect to get more than 20 cts back for every dollar invested.

In fact, Bankruptcy status would be better, because then there would be some sort of debt restructuring plan. That's why these bonds showed an up-tick in January when the US announced sanctions against Venezuela's oil industry. Here for example is are some bonds that mature in 2020 :
https://www.bourse.lu/security/USP97475AG56/94852

Venezuela is trading below "junk" rating, but hey, if you think there is nothing wrong with the Venezuelan economy, by all means, BUY these bonds. Next year when they mature, and Maduro pays the full dollar amount back to you, you will make a killing !

For the rest of us, we understand that Maduro is defaulting on his dollar bonds, effectively stealing from foreign investors, and we see the writing on the wall, since we pay attention to stuff like this :
https://nypost.com/2019/02/01/venezuelas-maduro-to-sell-gold-reserves-to-prop-up-regime/

Maduro is so desperate for cash that he is starting to sell the gold from the central bank.

That's a sure sign your country is done for, financially.

2) People are starving.

None of you guys seem to understand the human suffering.

You let Jimmy Dore say that life is Venezuela is "normal" and Max Blumenthal shops on a dollar store in Caracas, so all must be nice and dandy.

Yet three million Venezuelans left the country already, and if nothing changes, the UN expects another 2 million refugees out of Venezuela.

That would rival the refugee crisis from Syria, folks.

And the country who took in the bulk of Venezuelan refugees ? Colombia.
While Trump wants to build a wall, Colombia kept its borders open.

And Colombians are doing everything they can to help their fellow Venezuelans.

This report gave me hope :



3) Maduro is done for.

He led the country into a financial crisis, an economic crisis, a humanitarian crisis, and a political crisis.

Just think about it : If you drove the economy of your country into the ground like Maduro just did, and millions of your citizens are leaving your country because they are starving, and you have violated the constitution of your predecessor (Hugo Chavez) at least THREE times, and rigged the elections multiple times, while polls show that 80% of the people of your country want you OUT, then wouldn't you realize that maybe, just maybe, it's time for somebody else to take over ?

Any other leader would voluntarily resign and call for new elections.

It's time for Maduro to realize that it is time to go.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2019, 08:24:08 AM by Rob Dekker »
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b_lumenkraft

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Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
« Reply #315 on: March 23, 2019, 10:15:27 AM »
All three arguments are also true for many other countries in the world.

Rob, what is your answer to why these countries are not even mentioned in American media. And why doesn't the US feel responsible for those?

Edit: Let me add for spite that argument 3 applies to the US and Trump. :)

Rob Dekker

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Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
« Reply #316 on: March 24, 2019, 08:22:49 AM »
All three arguments are also true for many other countries in the world.

Rob, what is your answer to why these countries are not even mentioned in American media.
And why doesn't the US feel responsible for those?

Maybe because there are no other countries in such bad shape that they :

- are so bankrupt that they not only default on their foreign debt but also have 1,000,000 % inflation on their local currency and have to sell the gold from their central bank just to stay afloat, AND
- have already created 3 million refugees with 2 million more to come this year AND
- has a constitutional political crisis confronting a dictator that does not want to step down and issue free and fair elections.

Let me know if you can think of another country that has has all three crisis at this time.

Quote
Edit: Let me add for spite that argument 3 applies to the US and Trump. :)

Lol  :)
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ASILurker

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Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
« Reply #317 on: March 24, 2019, 09:03:32 AM »
“American imperialists want to kill me. We just exposed the plan that the devil's puppet [Juan Guaido] personally directed to kill me,” President Nicolas Maduro told his supporters on Saturday, claiming his government has “evidence” on the opposition’s alleged criminal activities.

Roberto Marrero, chief of staff to the US-backed opposition leader Guaido, conspired with his boss to finance terrorist acts in Venezuela, Communications Minister Jorge Rodriguez told the nation on Saturday, accusing the arrested members of the opposition of trafficking hitmen from Central America.

“Assassins and paramilitaries have been recruited using large amounts of money so that they can be sent to Colombia to receive training,” he said. “Marrero was involved in contracting people from Guatemala and Colombia to comply with the recruitment and training plan for assassins.”

Information gathered from Marrero’s cell phone indicates that the opposition was planning to put together eight to 10 hit teams, each comprising at least eight mercenaries, to carry out assassinations, sabotage and acts of terrorism against government institutions in Venezuela.

    Sobre denuncia anterior informamos que fue capturado jefe paramilitar de los más buscados de Colombia:Wilfrido Torres Gómez, alias Neco. Es uno de los jefes de sicarios ingresados x la ultraderecha desde Colombia. Solicitado con código azul x Interpol x homicidio y sicariato pic.twitter.com/ZK6V2FWn1q
    — Jorge Rodríguez (@jorgerpsuv) March 23, 2019

At least 60 people had received special paramilitary training in Colombia and half of them have allegedly already infiltrated Venezuela, following the failed attempt to bring in the so-called humanitarian convoys from the US on February 23.

“At least 30 paramilitaries hired from El Salvador, Honduras or Guatemala –trained in Colombia– entered Venezuela. We are looking for them. We have already identified some,” he said on state television, showing screenshots from Marrero’s phone as proof and accusing the US of running the operation.

https://www.rt.com/news/454604-venezuela-guaido-maduro-assassination/ 

vox_mundi

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Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
« Reply #318 on: March 25, 2019, 12:22:43 AM »
Russian Troops Land in Caracas as US Considers Military Intervention in Venezuela   
https://thinkprogress.org/russian-troops-land-in-venezuela-as-us-considers-military-options-59acc24966d3/amp/

Nearly 100 Russian troops have reportedly landed in the Venezuelan capital of Caracas as the United States, which has hinted that a military option is “on the table,” continues to pressure the country’s president to step down.

Reuters reported Sunday that two Russian planes arrived in Caracas on Saturday, one of them thought to have carried Vasily Tonkoshkurov, chief of staff for Russian ground forces.

Moscow has vowed to step in and prevent “any provocations to shed blood.”

---------------------------

CIA Linked Plane Makes Brief Trip To Venezuela As American Diplomats Evacuate
https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/26951/cia-linked-plane-makes-brief-trip-to-venezuela-as-american-diplomats-evacuate

« Last Edit: March 25, 2019, 12:30:52 AM by vox_mundi »
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ASILurker

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Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
« Reply #319 on: March 25, 2019, 02:05:58 AM »
President Putin never struck me as someone like a Neville Chamberlain. Though I am still surprised by this move, especially if it escalates rapidly to several thousand troops, the airforce and S400s etc.

Rob Dekker

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Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
« Reply #320 on: March 25, 2019, 07:07:48 AM »
Russian Troops Land in Caracas ...
https://thinkprogress.org/russian-troops-land-in-venezuela-as-us-considers-military-options-59acc24966d3/amp/

Moscow has vowed to step in ....

Imagine if that would have read as follows :

Quote
US Troops Land in Caracas ...
https://thinkprogress.org/us-troops-land-in-venezuela-as-russia-considers-military-options-59acc24966d3/amp/

Washington has vowed to step in ....

But now that it's Russia that's intervening in Venezuela, it's all OK ?

What happened to the cries to keep "Hands Off Venezuela !" ?



Maduro :
Russia can send all the troops they want, and we will gladly pay them with oil.
But the US, NO ! Those imperialistic pigs have no place in Venezuela.
They are after our oil !

US: OK, we'll stop buying it then.

Maduro : The imperialistic pigs in the US are killing us with their sanctions !

US: Wait, What ?
« Last Edit: March 25, 2019, 07:32:17 AM by Rob Dekker »
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Rob Dekker

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Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
« Reply #321 on: March 25, 2019, 07:33:52 AM »
Russian Troops Land in Caracas ...
https://thinkprogress.org/russian-troops-land-in-venezuela-as-us-considers-military-options-59acc24966d3/amp/

Moscow has vowed to step in ....

Imagine if that would have read as follows :

Quote
US Troops Land in Caracas ...
https://thinkprogress.org/us-troops-land-in-venezuela-as-russia-considers-military-options-59acc24966d3/amp/

Washington has vowed to step in ....

But now that it's Russia that's intervening in Venezuela, it's all OK ?

What happened to the cries to keep "Hands Off Venezuela !" ?



Maduro :
Russia can send all the military troops they want, and we will gladly pay them with oil.
But the US, NO ! They cannot send a single grain of rice in humanitarian aid into Venezuela.
Those imperialists want to get our oil !

US: OK, we'll stop buying it then.

Maduro : The imperialistic pigs in the US are killing us with their sanctions !

US: Wait, What ?
« Last Edit: March 25, 2019, 07:39:05 AM by Rob Dekker »
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Rob Dekker

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Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
« Reply #322 on: March 25, 2019, 07:42:58 AM »
Russian Troops Land in Caracas ...
https://thinkprogress.org/russian-troops-land-in-venezuela-as-us-considers-military-options-59acc24966d3/amp/

Moscow has vowed to step in ....

Imagine if that would have read as follows :

Quote
US Troops Land in Caracas ...
https://thinkprogress.org/us-troops-land-in-venezuela-as-russia-considers-military-options-59acc24966d3/amp/

Washington has vowed to step in ....

But now that it's Russia that's intervening in Venezuela, it's all OK ?

What happened to the cries to keep "Hands Off Venezuela !" ?



Maduro :
Russia can send all the military troops they want, and we will gladly pay them with oil.
But the US, NO ! They cannot send a single grain of rice in humanitarian aid into Venezuela.
Those imperialists want to get our oil !

US: OK, we'll stop buying it then.

Maduro : The imperialistic pigs in the US are killing us with their sanctions !

US: Wait, What ?
This is our planet. This is our time.
Let's not waste either.

Neven

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Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
« Reply #323 on: March 25, 2019, 10:01:23 AM »
What happened to the cries to keep "Hands Off Venezuela !" ?

For the record, you can go back and see what I wrote:

Venezuela needs to be left alone by the US and Russia and everybody else, sanctions need to be lifted immediately, diplomacy restored, and the media needs to stop this excessively riling sensationalism, especially if it's promoting misinformation

But if I would absolutely have to choose, I would take the Russians over Pompeo, Bolton, Abrams and Trump. Besides, the USA has a long history of f***ing over the peoples of Latin America.

Either way, we wouldn't be talking about this if it weren't for the oil under Venezuela soil. Which should have been Rob's honest answer to b_lumenkraft's question.
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Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
« Reply #324 on: March 25, 2019, 10:07:16 AM »
What happened to the cries to keep "Hands Off Venezuela !" ?

For the record, you can go back and see what I wrote:

Venezuela needs to be left alone by the US and Russia and everybody else, sanctions need to be lifted immediately, diplomacy restored, and the media needs to stop this excessively riling sensationalism, especially if it's promoting misinformation

But if I would absolutely have to choose, I would take the Russians over Pompeo, Bolton, Abrams and Trump. Besides, the USA has a long history of f***ing over the peoples of Latin America.

So, are you happy now that the Russians intervened militarily ?
And do you think the Russians are there to help the starving people of Venezuela ?

Or are they there to ensure that Venezuela's military doesn't fold over to Guaido,
so that Russia's share in Venezuela's oil production (as payment of debt) is still ensured ?
« Last Edit: March 25, 2019, 10:22:43 AM by Rob Dekker »
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Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
« Reply #325 on: March 25, 2019, 10:11:57 AM »
Either way, we wouldn't be talking about this if it weren't for the oil under Venezuela soil. Which should have been Rob's honest answer to b_lumenkraft's question.

My answer to b_lumenkraft was :

---
Maybe because there are no other countries in such bad shape that they :

- are so bankrupt that they not only default on their foreign debt but also have 1,000,000 % inflation on their local currency and have to sell the gold from their central bank just to stay afloat, AND
- have already created 3 million refugees with 2 million more to come this year AND
- has a constitutional political crisis confronting a dictator that does not want to step down and issue free and fair elections.

Let me know if you can think of another country that has has all three crisis at this time.
---

But since you brought it up again, Neven, can you think of any other country that just has the FIRST of these crisis ?
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Neven

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Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
« Reply #326 on: March 25, 2019, 10:39:16 AM »
But if I would absolutely have to choose, I would take the Russians over Pompeo, Bolton, Abrams and Trump. Besides, the USA has a long history of f***ing over the peoples of Latin America.

So, are you happy now that the Russians intervened militarily ?

No, because I didn't absolutely have to choose.

Quote
And do you think the Russians are there to help the starving people of Venezuela ?

No, they're there because of the oil, just like the Americans are there on behalf of concentrated wealth.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2019, 11:52:29 AM by Neven »
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Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
« Reply #327 on: March 25, 2019, 10:40:49 AM »
Either way, we wouldn't be talking about this if it weren't for the oil under Venezuela soil. Which should have been Rob's honest answer to b_lumenkraft's question.

My answer to b_lumenkraft was :

I know what your answer to b_lumenkraft was, and it wasn't an honest answer. The honest answer is: Because oil.
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Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
« Reply #328 on: March 25, 2019, 11:09:38 AM »
- are so bankrupt that they not only default on their foreign debt but also have 1,000,000 % inflation on their local currency and have to sell the gold from their central bank just to stay afloat,

Hyperinflation is not really a rare thing. >>

Quote
- have already created 3 million refugees with 2 million more to come this year

How do we contextualize these numbers, Rob? You need to take into account migration is not a rare thing either. If you can show me numbers that point out that there is a (sharp) rise in these numbers under Maduro that would be helpful for your argument.

Quote
- has a constitutional political crisis confronting a dictator that does not want to step down and issue free and fair elections.

Since the US is intervening in South America since the US is a thing, you can't make a case that this crisis is not caused or even orchestrated by US intervention in the past or today. Alternative history is cool for intellectual reasons, but cannot be an argument.

Quote
Let me know if you can think of another country that has had all three crisis at this time.

Generally speaking. many countries in the world are worse off than Venezuela. I fail to see why these three criteria are not arbitrary. This is why i reject the premise, those would justify intervention from the US.

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Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
« Reply #329 on: March 25, 2019, 04:10:16 PM »
"We are strong, and we are many, and we will win this battle in the end. Stop the evil empire."

https://www.facebook.com/rogerwaters/videos/486413478562991/

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Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
« Reply #330 on: March 25, 2019, 04:11:02 PM »
"We are strong, and we are many, and we will win this battle in the end. Stop the evil empire."

https://www.facebook.com/rogerwaters/videos/486413478562991/

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Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
« Reply #331 on: March 25, 2019, 10:26:00 PM »
President Putin never struck me as someone like a Neville Chamberlain. Though I am still surprised by this move, especially if it escalates rapidly to several thousand troops, the airforce and S400s etc.

Sorry, just S300s


https://twitter.com/ImageSatIntl/status/1109831650853171200/photo/1

Russian Mercenaries Reportedly Descend On Venezuela To Help Protect Maduro's Regime
https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/26174/russian-mercenaries-reportedly-descend-on-venezuela-to-help-protect-maduros-regime

Russian Transport Aircraft Deliver Men And Materiel To Venezuela Direct From Syria
https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/27143/russian-transport-aircraft-deliver-men-and-materiel-to-venezuela-direct-from-syria
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Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
« Reply #332 on: March 26, 2019, 04:39:01 AM »
 Over $30 billion of Venezuela’s assets stolen on ‘Trump’s orders’ – official
Published time: 25 Mar, 2019

“They have resorted to stealing the assets that Venezuela holds in different banks. This money is being confiscated at the request of the [US President Donald] Trump administration. Over $30 billion has been stolen in the past couple of months,” Rodriguez said on Saturday as cited by VTV state television.

The scheme was allegedly coordinated by US-backed opposition leader and self-proclaimed ‘interim president’ Juan Guaido, as well as his key aids – Leopoldo Lopez, and the recently detained Roberto Marrero, among others. Information gathered from Marrero’s cell phone indicates that Venezuelan lawyer Juan Planchart received some part of the stolen money, according to the minister.

https://www.rt.com/business/454675-30-billion-stolen-venezuela/

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Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
« Reply #333 on: March 26, 2019, 05:50:57 AM »
Either way, we wouldn't be talking about this if it weren't for the oil under Venezuela soil. Which should have been Rob's honest answer to b_lumenkraft's question.

My answer to b_lumenkraft was :

I know what your answer to b_lumenkraft was, and it wasn't an honest answer. The honest answer is: Because oil.

I know this is a favorite meme of several people here, but there is not much evidence for it.

For one, it doesn't make any logical sense at all.
After all, the US already was buying Venezuelan oil all along.
https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=PET&s=MTTIMUSVE1&f=M

Not much changed there as the US bought about 1/3rd of Venezuela's production since the 90's (even before Chavez) all the way until Jan this year, when Guido stepped forward. That's when the US along with 50+ other countries, like even Japan which usually remains neutral, finally picked sides.

So did that "because oil" reason also apply to Japan ?
« Last Edit: March 26, 2019, 05:59:14 AM by Rob Dekker »
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Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
« Reply #334 on: March 26, 2019, 06:26:57 AM »
Either way, we wouldn't be talking about this if it weren't for the oil under Venezuela soil. Which should have been Rob's honest answer to b_lumenkraft's question.

My answer to b_lumenkraft was :

I know what your answer to b_lumenkraft was, and it wasn't an honest answer. The honest answer is: Because oil.

I know this is a favorite meme of several people here, but there is not much evidence for it.

For one, it doesn't make any logical sense at all.
After all, the US already was buying Venezuelan oil all along.
https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=PET&s=MTTIMUSVE1&f=M

Not much changed there as the US bought about 1/3rd of Venezuela's production since the 90's (even before Chavez) all the way until Jan this year, when Guido stepped forward. That's when the US along with 50+ other countries, like even Japan which usually remains neutral, finally picked sides.

So did Japan also pick sides "because of oil" ?
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Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
« Reply #335 on: March 26, 2019, 08:35:53 AM »
I know what your answer to b_lumenkraft was, and it wasn't an honest answer. The honest answer is: Because oil.

OK. Second try :

Your answer does not make any logical sense.

The US has always had access to Venezuelan oil, buying about 1/3rd of Venezuela's production since even before Chavez :
https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=PET&s=MTTIMUSVE1&f=M
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Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
« Reply #336 on: March 26, 2019, 08:51:55 AM »
Yes, exactly, it's about oil.
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Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
« Reply #337 on: March 26, 2019, 09:08:26 AM »
Yes, exactly, it's about oil.

And the ongoing Abuse of Absolute Power.

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Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
« Reply #338 on: March 27, 2019, 08:23:36 AM »
The honest answer is: Because oil.

Quote
Your answer does not make any logical sense.

The US has always had access to Venezuelan oil, buying about 1/3rd of Venezuela's production since even before Chavez :
https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=PET&s=MTTIMUSVE1&f=M
Yes, exactly, it's about oil.

If all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.
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Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
« Reply #339 on: March 27, 2019, 08:32:08 AM »
- are so bankrupt that they not only default on their foreign debt but also have 1,000,000 % inflation on their local currency and have to sell the gold from their central bank just to stay afloat,

Hyperinflation is not really a rare thing...

Sure. But Venezuela suffers from much, much more than hyperinflation.

For one, Maduro and his military friends have robbed the country blind, to the point where they are now selling the gold from the Venezuelan central bank.

You still want to continue doing business with that kind of "government" ?
50+ countries decided that enough is enough.
I agree with that.
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Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
« Reply #340 on: March 27, 2019, 09:56:02 AM »


Quote
SHARMINI PERIES: The former UN Special Rapporteur Alfred de Zayas heavily criticized the report that Michelle Bachelet, as the chair of the Human Rights Commission, had delivered. He calls it unprofessional and politicized.

ALFRED DE ZAYAS: We are swimming in an ocean of lies. I must say, when I went to Venezuela I expected to find it a humanitarian crisis. I was predetermined to find a humanitarian crisis. I walked the streets. I spoke to people of all kinds. And that was not the case. That means I had been manipulated. I had been lied to. And I resent that. But if all you want to do is say Maduro is corrupt, and Maduro is a criminal, then you’re not likely to get any cooperation from the government. Most important, let’s support the Montevideo mechanism. This is the way forward.

(...)

SHARMINI PERIES: All right, there is the NGOs, Professor Zayas, the NGOs. Now, towards the end of your clip there when you were making a presentation at the Human Rights Council, you didn’t get enough time there to fully explain your findings and your take on what is going on Venezuela. But you said something very important there. You said even prior to going to Venezuela, you were fed an ocean of lies. Explain that to us.

ALFRED DE ZAYAS: Well, I’m a professional. I’m a lawyer. And before going on a mission as delicate and as important as this one, I literally read everything. I read all the reports of the Inter-American Commission of Human Rights on Venezuela, of Amnesty International, of Human Rights Watch, of the High Commissioner for Human Rights, et cetera, et cetera, also the reports–by the way, much more positive–the reports over the Human Rights Committee on Venezuela, the reports of the Committee on Economic, Social, and Cultural Rights on Venezuela. Now, whereas the reports of the expert committees were solid and were balanced, on one side this on the other side that, the reports, especially of Human Rights Watch, I was rather disappointed how politicized, how one sided they were, and how they completely ignored all other evidence.

They systematically fed me with the idea that the demonstrators are peaceful demonstrators, that the government is legitimate, that the government is a dictatorship, et cetera, et cetera. All I can say, that my own experience having spoken to members of the opposition, to the National Assembly, to the Chamber of Commerce, to professors and churches and civil society, having spoken also to the ministries, et cetera, is that the country is polarized. And you would have 50 percent on one side that wants to go back to the good old days when the rich were rich and the poor were poor, and want to throw out of the window all of the social legislation of Chavez and Maduro, and the other 50 percent that is going to fight tooth and nail to keep the human rights under Chavez and Maduro.

What I told the opposition, even if you succeed in toppling Maduro, what are you going to do with a nine million Chavistas who are your brothers, your Venezuelan brothers and sisters. They are not going to roll over, they are not going to disappear. So you’re going to end up with a civil war situation. So the only solution is dialogue, the only solution is also mediation, like Mexico and Uruguay are proposing through the Montevideo mechanism. That’s the only way out, and I hope that Michelle Bachelet will pick up on whatever the Montevideo mechanism has achieved and will personally speak with the opposition and with the government and try to reach a compromise.
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Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
« Reply #341 on: March 27, 2019, 05:26:26 PM »
 US President Donald Trump has warned that Russia must get out of Venezuela. Two planeloads of Russian troops are currently in the Latin American country under the terms of a 2001 cooperation treaty.

Speaking at the White House, Trump also warned that “all options are open” when it comes to getting Russia out of Venezuela.

There he is whistlin' Dixie again.

    The United States will not tolerate hostile foreign military powers meddling with the Western Hemisphere’s shared goals of democracy, security, and the rule of law. The Venezuelan military must stand with the people of Venezuela.
    — John Bolton (@AmbJohnBolton) March 25, 2019

Awwh shucks John! What's all that hostile foreign military NATO power along the Eastern Front? The Russian Military stands with the people of Russia dipstick! :)

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Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
« Reply #342 on: March 28, 2019, 09:47:04 AM »
US President Donald Trump has warned that Russia must get out of Venezuela. Two planeloads of Russian troops are currently in the Latin American country under the terms of a 2001 cooperation treaty.

Which 2001 cooperation treaty was that exactly ?

Quote
Over that period Venezuela became one of the world’s top clients of the Russian arms industry. Between 2001 and 2011 it purchased $11 billion worth of Russian weapons.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/global-opinions/wp/2017/09/06/putins-latest-anti-american-intervention-venezuela/?utm_term=.e047a2423112

Ahh. THAT treaty ?

No wonder the Russians want to stay in Venezuela and want to keep the rest of the world out.
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Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
« Reply #343 on: March 28, 2019, 09:59:43 AM »
An excellent report from TYT on Venezuela :

- there have been 6 strait years of economic contraction
- we have the highest hyper-inflation in the world
- we have a government who has become authoritarian and repressive
- and we have serious human rights violations ; killings of opposition leaders and jailing of journalist etc etc.

The entire story and what we should do/not do here :



Takeaway message at 5:20 and beyond :

..We really need to see new elections...
« Last Edit: March 28, 2019, 10:04:45 AM by Rob Dekker »
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Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
« Reply #344 on: March 28, 2019, 04:12:13 PM »
The problem with that video is that the nice, white, privileged lady is obviously pro-Guaido. And pro-Guaido means pro-Bolton/Pompeo/Trump/Imperialist USA. Cenk Uygur calls her out on it and stresses the fact that all this is about, is oil (something that the nice, white, privileged lady and our own nice, white, privileged neoliberal Rob Dekker simply cannot find in themselves to admit).

Quote
Cenk Uygur: John Bolton went out on Fox News and said: We're looking forward to protecting American business interests there, including the American oil companies. Nah, and you know, so they're backing Guaido. I can't have us doing a, you know, an unofficial coup of Maduro, back Guaido, and Guaido comes in and goes: Congratulations, mission accomplished, Exxon-Mobil gets all the oil.
Pilar Marrero: Hihi.
Cenk Uygur: I can't have that, but I can't have the status quo, because Maduro is killing the country. There's extrajudicial killings, a million kids are not going to school anymore, it's an absolute disaster. It's as big a no-win situation as you can almost imagine.
Pilar Marrero: Let me tell you something about the history of oil in Venezuela.

See what she did there? Instead of saying "Absolutely, Guaido is a US Imperialist stooge, as we've seen so many of in Latin America during the past century", she changes the subject to smear Chavismo and complain that oil isn't pumped out as efficiently as could be, because it should be left to the free market (ie Exxon-Mobil).

She then goes on to imply that more than oil being the reason for US meddling, it's because Trump wants to put socialism in the spotlight and then say that the Democrats are just like that. Which, of course, is why it's so monumentally stupid to be pro-Guaido, because you then support that dynamic that is aimed at crippling the true left. Hence, if you're pro-Guaido, you are not a true progressive.

But fortunately, Cenk Uygur, being a good journalist who doesn't push establishment narratives on behalf of money interests and TPTB, doesn't let go:

Quote
Cenk Uygur: Pilar, let's keep it real. The Trump administration and all the neocons are on a war path against two countries: Iran and Venezuela. There's only one thing that connects those two countries: oil. Okay? And there's one country we invaded: Iraq. Oil. Okay? North Korea, we ain't gonna invade, okay, because they don't have any oil. So, it's definitely, definitely about the oil.
Pilar Marrero (again deflecting): If you ask a lot of Venezuelans today: Would you mind having the American companies go in instead of having your freedom and a good government that will not torture you and kill you and starve you? A lot of people will say 'yes'.
Cenk Uygur: Yes, but the problem is with the American oil companies come, or even American banana companies, they also bring the torture and the human rights abuses...
Pilar Marrero (interrupting): It's already there. It barely can get any worse than it is now.
Cenk Uygur: Not a great way to solve it.

At the end, Cenk explains why binary thinking, where you think you absolutely need to choose between one of two sides (something that Rob Dekker promotes at every turn), is a dumb thing to do:

Quote
This is the Venezuelan people being squeezed between these different power players like Russia and the US. The US does not necessarily have your best interests in mind, but neither does Russia. So, if you're a progressive and you think: No, Putin is a good guy, I agree with George W. Bush who looked into his eyes and said he has a good soul, and he cares about the people of Venezuela. You are officially nuts if you believe that. You are also nuts if you think that's what Trump thinks. Neither one thinks that, okay? So, we gotta find a way to protect the people of Venezuela.

You're also nuts if you think sociopaths like Pelosi, Schumer, Feinstein, Harris, Booker, Biden, Clintons, Obama and the other neoliberal Corporatist Republicans-lite think that.

The only way to protect the Venezuelan people, is to stop being pro-Guaido, to stop pushing polarisation, to lift sanctions and to help Venezuela wherever possible to become less reliant on dirty AGW-inducing, Koch-enriching oil, without meddling to install neoliberal puppets.
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Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
« Reply #345 on: March 28, 2019, 04:17:15 PM »
I hope that Cenk Uygur will now also have a conversation with black, leftist Venezuelans, and that Rob Dekker will post the link here.
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Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
« Reply #346 on: March 29, 2019, 04:17:42 AM »
I hope that Cenk Uygur will now also have a conversation with black, leftist Venezuelans, and that Rob Dekker will post the link here.

There's a new movie out on my Netflix this week. It's about the media going to Ecuador to cover an insurgency/civil war. I suspect it might be an unexpected/unintended analogy to what has happened around Venezuela recently.

I highly recommend it, 'tis a good movie. :)

Special Correspondents is a 2016 British-Canadian-American satirical comedy film written, directed by and starring Ricky Gervais. The film is a remake of the 2009 French comedy Envoyés très spéciaux, and stars Gervais, Eric Bana, Vera Farmiga, Kelly Macdonald, Kevin Pollak, Benjamin Bratt, America Ferrera and Raúl Castillo. The film had its world premiere at the Tribeca Film Festival on 22 April 2016 and was released worldwide by Netflix on 29 April 2016. 


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Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
« Reply #347 on: March 29, 2019, 07:35:15 AM »
I hope that Cenk Uygur will now also have a conversation with black, leftist Venezuelans, and that Rob Dekker will post the link here.

You say this lady is "well to do", but you give no evidence for that.
You imply that this lady is not "leftist" but you give no evidence for that either.
The only thing that is obvious is that this lady is not "black" and you are asking for Cenk to interview a "black, leftist Venezuelan".

Well, Cenk did not find such a person, but here is the reality of Venezuelan people (regardless of skin color) that are at least NOT "well to do". Cenk may want to interview them just like the BBC did :



These people are living on $2/day in Colombia, but still won't go back to Venezuela, since at least their kids can eat in Colombia.

And Cenk may want to interview these people from a barrio in Caracas, who protested the Maduro policies on Jan 23 this year, and then had to face FAES afterwards.
https://www.caracaschronicles.com/2019/01/27/meet-faes-the-bolivarian-police-death-squads-leading-repression-against-protesters/



The UN estimates 40 protesters where killed, 850 detained.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-venezuela-politics-un/more-than-40-dead-850-detained-in-venezuela-violence-u-n-says-idUSKCN1PN16Y

That is how the voice of the poor is being handled by the Maduro regime.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2019, 07:55:35 AM by Rob Dekker »
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Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
« Reply #348 on: March 29, 2019, 07:42:34 AM »
Venezuelan refugees now number 3.4 million; humanitarian implications massive, UN warns

https://news.un.org/en/story/2019/02/1033361
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Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
« Reply #349 on: March 29, 2019, 07:56:13 AM »
I hope that Cenk Uygur will now also have a conversation with black, leftist Venezuelans, and that Rob Dekker will post the link here.

You say this lady is "well to do", but you give no evidence for that.
You say that this lady is "pro-Guaido" and imply that she is not "leftist" but you give no evidence for that either.

The only thing that is obvious is that this lady is not "black" and you are asking for Cenk to interview a "black, leftist Venezuelan".

Well, I'm not sure why being "black" and being "leftist" would make any difference, but here is the reality of the Venezuelan people (regardless of skin color) that are at least NOT "well to do".

Cenk may want to interview them just like the BBC did :



These people are living on $2/day in Colombia, but still won't go back to Venezuela, since at least their kids can eat in Colombia.

And Cenk may want to interview these people from a barrio in Caracas, who protested the Maduro policies on Jan 23 this year, and then had to face FAES afterwards.
https://www.caracaschronicles.com/2019/01/27/meet-faes-the-bolivarian-police-death-squads-leading-repression-against-protesters/



The UN estimates 40 protesters where killed, 850 detained.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-venezuela-politics-un/more-than-40-dead-850-detained-in-venezuela-violence-u-n-says-idUSKCN1PN16Y

That is how the voice of the poor is being handled by the Maduro regime.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2019, 08:02:38 AM by Rob Dekker »
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