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Who is your Preferred Choice today to be the Democratic Party Presidential Nominee

Gov. Steve Bullock (Undeclared)
VP Joe Biden is running
Sen. Bernie Sanders
Sen. Kamala Harris
Sen. Elizabeth Warren
Rep. Beto O'Rourke
Sen. Cory Booker
Sen. Amy Klobuchar
Sen. Mike Gravel (Retired)
Rep. Eric Swalwell
Rep. Tulsi Gabbard
Julian Castro (Former Sec. / Mayor)
Pete Buttigiege (Mayor)
Rep. John Delaney
Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand
Another Candidate
"Frankly my dear I don't give a damn!"
Gov. Jay Inslee
Gov. John Hickenlooper
Andrew Yang (Entrepreneur)
Rep. Tim Ryan
Marianne Williamson (Activist/Author)
Wayne Messam (Mayor)
Sherrod Brown (withdrew March 7)
Michael Bloomberg (withdrew March 5)
Hillary Clinton (withdrew March 4)

Voting closes: December 31, 2019, 06:43:04 AM

Author Topic: Poll for the Democratic Party's Nomination for U.S. President in 2020  (Read 4470 times)

Rob Dekker

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Re: Poll for the Democratic Party's Nomination for U.S. President in 2020
« Reply #50 on: November 10, 2019, 09:58:11 AM »
Update on the realclearpolitics poll average : I prefer Sanders, but it seems that the US public still prefers Biden.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2020/president/us/2020_democratic_presidential_nomination-6730.html

One reason may be a reality check :
The US is fed-up with Trump's hypocrisy, and wants a return to the reason and integrity and normalcy of the Obama period.
Which is Biden.
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Klondike Kat

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Re: Poll for the Democratic Party's Nomination for U.S. President in 2020
« Reply #51 on: November 10, 2019, 01:48:24 PM »
Rob, that makes a ton of sense.  I do not believe that the candidates that talked the Obama administration did themselves any help during the last debate.  The best thing Biden did at the debate was defend Obama.

blumenkraft

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Re: Poll for the Democratic Party's Nomination for U.S. President in 2020
« Reply #52 on: November 10, 2019, 01:57:34 PM »
Oh, right. Obama the glowing hero.

The hero who bombed and killed worldwide just like his Republican preprocessors. Surely a true American hero.
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Klondike Kat

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Re: Poll for the Democratic Party's Nomination for U.S. President in 2020
« Reply #53 on: November 10, 2019, 06:11:56 PM »
Oh, right. Obama the glowing hero.

The hero who bombed and killed worldwide just like his Republican preprocessors. Surely a true American hero.

You are but one vote.  The majority of Americans feel differently.  Alienating those voters is not a good strategy to win an election.

blumenkraft

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Re: Poll for the Democratic Party's Nomination for U.S. President in 2020
« Reply #54 on: November 10, 2019, 06:17:57 PM »
Sadly, i'm not even a vote, Kat.

A majority of Americans want universal healthcare, want to stop never-ending wars, want clean air and water. And there are many more problems Obama never even tried to touch.

If it means alienating conservatives when you stubbornly demand those changes and blame the murderous politics of past presidents, i'm fine with that.
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Klondike Kat

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Re: Poll for the Democratic Party's Nomination for U.S. President in 2020
« Reply #55 on: November 10, 2019, 06:38:57 PM »
Sadly, i'm not even a vote, Kat.

A majority of Americans want universal healthcare, want to stop never-ending wars, want clean air and water. And there are many more problems Obama never even tried to touch.

If it means alienating conservatives when you stubbornly demand those changes and blame the murderous politics of past presidents, i'm fine with that.

Conservatives?  I would hardly call Obama supporters conservative.  Sure, they are many problems, none of the past presidents addressed, and it has been almost a century (perhaps longer) since a president did not bomb anyone.

  From I have read, the majority of Americans do not want universal healthcare. 

blumenkraft

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Re: Poll for the Democratic Party's Nomination for U.S. President in 2020
« Reply #56 on: November 10, 2019, 06:58:39 PM »
When the politics is conservative, everyone voting for the guy voted conservative.

The above-mentioned politics is extremely conservative.
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sidd

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Neven

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Re: Poll for the Democratic Party's Nomination for U.S. President in 2020
« Reply #58 on: November 10, 2019, 08:16:54 PM »
Quote
cite ?

He's just parroting establishment media. Just like a lot of polls.

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Rob Dekker

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Re: Poll for the Democratic Party's Nomination for U.S. President in 2020
« Reply #59 on: November 11, 2019, 05:47:21 AM »
Regarding polling for the 2020 Democratic Party Presidential Nomination fivethirtyeight.com has a great collection of polls both broad and deep :

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2020-primaries/democratic/

Enter "National Polls" for an overview of nation-wide polls.
Or enter your favorite state and see the polls for that state.

They also include the time period when each poll was taken, and a rating for the quality of each poll.

All in all, a very valuable resource.
This is our planet. This is our time.
Let's not waste either.

Neven

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Re: Poll for the Democratic Party's Nomination for U.S. President in 2020
« Reply #60 on: November 11, 2019, 01:27:14 PM »
Very, very reliable. Too bad they had to let Roger Pielke go.
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Klondike Kat

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Re: Poll for the Democratic Party's Nomination for U.S. President in 2020
« Reply #61 on: November 11, 2019, 07:28:42 PM »
Re: the majority of Americans do not want universal healthcare. 

cite ? Here is one poll that says a majority do want universal health care

https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/279991-poll-majority-of-americans-support-federally-funded-healthcare

here's a couple more:

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2018/08/new-poll-majority-of-gop-voters-support-medicare-for-all.html

https://www.healthpopuli.com/2019/01/24/americans-are-warming-to-universal-health-care-kaiser-poll-finds/

sidd

One needs to dig a little deeper into the polling numbers.  Yes, the majority want some sort of government-provided healthcare, but very few want a government-only system (13%).  Conversely, very few want a private-only system (15%).  Most want some sort or private/government mix.  Of course, those pushing one form or the other can manipulate these figures to their own advantage.  We all know about liars and statisticians.

https://thehill.com/hilltv/what-americas-thinking/428958-poll-voters-want-the-government-to-provide-healthcare-for

blumenkraft

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Re: Poll for the Democratic Party's Nomination for U.S. President in 2020
« Reply #62 on: November 11, 2019, 07:36:13 PM »
Kat, imagine you would run an insurance company. Who would you rather insure a bunch of young healthy folks or the same amount of ill elderlies?

Or when it comes to the size of the company, would it be better to have a small number of folks inured where one cancer patient could bankrupt the company versus a really large pool where you can balance out the risk?

Now, put those measures on the thing you just proposed. How would that work?
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sedziobs

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Re: Poll for the Democratic Party's Nomination for U.S. President in 2020
« Reply #63 on: November 11, 2019, 10:30:19 PM »
Round and round we go. I'm having flashbacks to almost exactly one year ago.

Quote
Medicare-for-all gets nearly two-thirds support, but a “single-payer health insurance system” is a little more divisive: 48 percent have a positive reaction, and 32 percent have a negative reaction; the gap between favor and disfavor closes considerably. Medicare buy-ins poll the highest, with the support of three-fourths of Americans, including 6 out of 10 Republicans.

You could absolutely argue these numbers still seem pretty strong for single-payer described as such, given the conventional wisdom that such a plan is unworkable. But it is undoubtedly true that Medicare-for-all, as a slogan, is more popular — as are some of these more incremental policies, like giving people the option of buying into Medicare.
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/7/2/17468448/medicare-for-all-single-payer-health-care-2018-elections

Same with free college tuition.  Conservatives want that too.  But they don't want to raise their taxes to pay for it.
Quote
Just 57 percent of free higher ed supporters would agree to coughing up more for Uncle Sam to get there.
https://www.ozy.com/acumen/ozy-poll-free-college-for-everyone/80096

That's the main point I am making.  Conservatives support progressive ideas generally, but are opposed to the costs of their implementation.  It's a problem that can't be wished away.

In a 2018 Gallup poll, only 13% thought the military was stronger than it needs to be.  39% said it's not strong enough, and 46% think it's just right.  68% think it's important for the US to be the world's #1 military power.  Middle America loves its military.

Of course everyone wants living wages, ending student debt, and medicare.  I don't need to look at opinion polls to understand that.  Conservatives want those goals achieved through the private sector.  They're not going to support federal programs that will raise their taxes.  I don't have to use the socialism label, they'll do it for me.

Then there's the issue of abortion, which makes single-issue voters out of many theocrats.  They're not going to be swayed by you or me standing for what is right.  I live among them, they're ideologues.  You said it well, "They cling to their identity and conditioning, to their need of an enemy, to their little socio-economic bubble, oblivious of universal principles and the needs and feelings of people who have it worse than them." (Yes, I know you were referring to me.)  This indicates that you are aware that the status quo is ingrained and won't change just by pushing ideals, whether it's Republicans! or liberals like me who just want to please the mommy and daddy in their heads.

Klondike Kat

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Re: Poll for the Democratic Party's Nomination for U.S. President in 2020
« Reply #64 on: November 12, 2019, 02:50:33 AM »
I think you are right.  People like the idea, but balk at the cost.  In order to receive similar care as they are receiving today, the costs are quite high.  Warren’s claim that all these costs can be borne by the rich is a fallacy.  At least Sanders admits that taxes must go up for everyone in order to pay for his plan.  Getting the people to support this is the real stickler.

sidd

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Re: Poll for the Democratic Party's Nomination for U.S. President in 2020
« Reply #65 on: November 12, 2019, 07:16:58 AM »
Re: costs are quite high

Of course they are. Your regulators are bought, your politicians are bought. Look at the costs in other countries and compare.

sidd

Neven

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Re: Poll for the Democratic Party's Nomination for U.S. President in 2020
« Reply #66 on: November 12, 2019, 10:32:50 AM »
At least Sanders admits that taxes must go up for everyone in order to pay for his plan.  Getting the people to support this is the real stickler.

People support it because their premiums will go down, and so they save money. Cutting out the middlemen saves money, everybody gets that. Unless you confuse that understanding by sowing disinformation. Stop doing that here, please.
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TerryM

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Re: Poll for the Democratic Party's Nomination for U.S. President in 2020
« Reply #67 on: November 12, 2019, 02:11:54 PM »
I doubt that there is a Canadian that would settle for "similar care as (Americans) are receiving today". Medical personnel would certainly be up in arms.
Two of the 5 specialists I see formerly worked in the States, neither plans to return.


I've been told that some of the European health care services are superior to Ontario's.
Terry

sedziobs

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Re: Poll for the Democratic Party's Nomination for U.S. President in 2020
« Reply #68 on: November 12, 2019, 03:55:57 PM »
It doesn't really matter why people support single payer, or why any of us think it is the best system. It only matters that most are not yet willing to vote for it. Much of the country will not vote for a tax increase, and they are not going to research other countries. Conservatives and many independents are against increasing the size of the federal government in just about every way except military spending.

Electing Sanders would be a good first step. A Democratic senate will also be required. If it gets passed, I'd expect a conservative backlash like the Tea Party against Obamacare, and much will be undone. This cycle should repeat until demographics are such that the older generations in both parties have lost influence. I'm still of the opinion that lasting change will not be realized until progressives are being elected in rural middle America.

blumenkraft

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Re: Poll for the Democratic Party's Nomination for U.S. President in 2020
« Reply #69 on: November 12, 2019, 04:34:44 PM »
Unless you confuse that understanding by sowing disinformation.

I wonder how stupid one has to be to hear that any country in the world with single-payer only pays half of the cost for healthcare and still think this is not applicable to the US.

At this point, any discussion about the topic should be over.

Kat, i asked you once if you think that Americans are too stupid to pull that off. You never answered i think. So let me ask again. What is your argument to why it's possible in any random country in the world but not the US?

I suggest you stop talking about the topic unless you can answer this question without BS.

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blumenkraft

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Re: Poll for the Democratic Party's Nomination for U.S. President in 2020
« Reply #70 on: November 12, 2019, 04:42:30 PM »
Much of the country will not vote for a tax increase, and they are not going to research other countries. Conservatives and many independents are against increasing the size of the federal government in just about every way except military spending.

If you ask people on the issues, they are progressive.

But people don't remember the issues and who is proposing what when they vote.

You can change that by talking about the issues and how candidates differ. You can't wait for the media to do that because it will not happen with a for-profit media landscape.

Dear American people: It's either you do this democracy thing or no one does it. Call people, ring doors. This time it really matters!
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Klondike Kat

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Re: Poll for the Democratic Party's Nomination for U.S. President in 2020
« Reply #71 on: November 12, 2019, 07:34:35 PM »
Unless you confuse that understanding by sowing disinformation.

I wonder how stupid one has to be to hear that any country in the world with single-payer only pays half of the cost for healthcare and still think this is not applicable to the US.

At this point, any discussion about the topic should be over.

Kat, i asked you once if you think that Americans are too stupid to pull that off. You never answered i think. So let me ask again. What is your argument to why it's possible in any random country in the world but not the US?

I suggest you stop talking about the topic unless you can answer this question without BS.

It is not a matter of the Americans being too stupid.  Rather, it is a matter of what they want.  They look at the system in other countries and see lower costs for lower care.  Many would argue that we should get lower care, as many tests and/or procedures are unnecessary.  On the other hand, some want the extra precautions and elective surgeries.  The other difference is the speed at which non-critical care occurs in the U.S. compared to the rest of the world.  Lastly, there are those who would rather take the chance of not needing healthcare, and spending their money elsewhere.  Many ignore these people, because they cannot fathom the idea that some people choose to be uninsured.  This should come as no surprise, compared to the numbers that do not have life insurance, fire insurance, etc.

How is that for an answer without BS?

blumenkraft

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Re: Poll for the Democratic Party's Nomination for U.S. President in 2020
« Reply #72 on: November 12, 2019, 09:04:57 PM »
I didn't ask for your view of what people want but for a counterargument.

The 'what people want' question is addressed upthread!
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Neven

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Re: Poll for the Democratic Party's Nomination for U.S. President in 2020
« Reply #73 on: November 12, 2019, 10:21:35 PM »
How is that for an answer without BS?

Very, very bad. 'Lower care' is pure BS.

I suggest you restrict yourself to the Arctic sea ice part of the Forum.
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TerryM

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Re: Poll for the Democratic Party's Nomination for U.S. President in 2020
« Reply #74 on: November 12, 2019, 11:32:40 PM »
KK
Other countries haven't settled for lower care levels, or longer wait times, they simply supply better care at lower cost. American voters aren't particularly stupid, they just grew up in a propaganda bubble that is making a few of them obscenely wealthy even as it reduces everyone else to penury.


I was told by Nevada's best doctors that I had <6 months to live. I promptly sold everything and came back to Canada for a final look at the country of my birth. That was in 2004!


In my first week back my cancer had been confirmed and the operation completed. It was a few months before my neurological problems came out of remission and could be treated - a treatment that was simply far to expensive for my HMO to offer. Within a few months I left my cane behind and could actually run - not too far or to fast, but running, not hobbling on a cane!


At the moment it's been 10 years since the cancer has last reappeared, and my CIDP hasn't raised it's head for even longer. I'm still a very long way from being healthy, but I've outlived the majority of my peers in Las Vegas & I'm sure that when my time does come I will have had the best care available anywhere, and my family won't be out a nickel.


I've been very ill in both countries. I've experience with both plans. Anyone voting for the status quo in the US is simply the victim of a very evil propaganda campaign & the successful lobbying efforts of Big Pharma and the AMA.


Keeping people healthy is much less expensive than trying to keep them alive for a few weeks or months after years of neglect have taken their toll. Don't fall for any of the BS that's being fed to you.
Terry

Klondike Kat

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Re: Poll for the Democratic Party's Nomination for U.S. President in 2020
« Reply #75 on: November 13, 2019, 12:34:30 AM »
How is that for an answer without BS?

Very, very bad. 'Lower care' is pure BS.

I suggest you restrict yourself to the Arctic sea ice part of the Forum.

Fine.  Less care if you are going to nitpick. 

sidd

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Re: Poll for the Democratic Party's Nomination for U.S. President in 2020
« Reply #76 on: November 13, 2019, 12:46:30 AM »
Re: They look at the system in other countries and see lower costs for lower care.

Anyone stating that is misled or lying.  Other countries in the west have far lower costs for superior care. 

sidd


Klondike Kat

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Re: Poll for the Democratic Party's Nomination for U.S. President in 2020
« Reply #77 on: November 13, 2019, 12:57:23 AM »
Re: They look at the system in other countries and see lower costs for lower care.

Anyone stating that is misled or lying.  Other countries in the west have far lower costs for superior care. 

sidd

See previous post for clarification.

sidd

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Re: Poll for the Democratic Party's Nomination for U.S. President in 2020
« Reply #78 on: November 13, 2019, 07:37:36 AM »
Define "lower care" perhaps ?

A huge expense as billed comes from end of life care in the USA. Other countries have more realistic views on where the money should be spent. If that is "lower care" i say lower away. I have seen far too many cases of US doctors overruled by family on keeping the poor sod alive with multiple tubes for multiple weeks in vegetative state with no benefit except to the US medical industry. And leaving the family with crushing debt.

Fuck that noise. I have experienced and witnessed medical care in several countries, as have many here, and when we tell you that the US medical system sucks,  we are speaking from experience.

But really, what we on the forum think is irrelevant. For this thread, what matters is if a public health care system like sanders is enuf to sink him as candidate. I doubt it.

sidd
 



bbr2314

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Re: Poll for the Democratic Party's Nomination for U.S. President in 2020
« Reply #79 on: November 13, 2019, 10:45:01 AM »
I change my vote to Bloomberg / Buttigieg

Bloomberg will crush kill destroy the competition if he does actually run


blumenkraft

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Re: Poll for the Democratic Party's Nomination for U.S. President in 2020
« Reply #80 on: November 13, 2019, 07:37:08 PM »
Of course, you do, Bbr.
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Re: Poll for the Democratic Party's Nomination for U.S. President in 2020
« Reply #81 on: November 14, 2019, 04:28:34 AM »
I change my vote to Bloomberg

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Re: Poll for the Democratic Party's Nomination for U.S. President in 2020
« Reply #82 on: November 16, 2019, 01:35:57 PM »
Ian McKellen.  ::) :P :-\ ;)
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