SpaceX

[Sigmetnow]

Mk1 Starship (Texas build) should be fully stacked on Wednesday.  Will have moveable “wings.”   Musk to give his presentation there on Sept. 28.

SpaceX installs two Starship wings ahead of Elon Musk’s Saturday update
https://www.teslarati.com/spacex-kicks-off-starship-wing-installation-elon-musk-update/

SpaceX’s Starship Mk1 rocket shares a surprising connection with Tesla EVs
https://www.teslarati.com/spacex-starship-tesla-battery-packs-spotted/

SpaceX begins launch pad upgrades for Starship flight tests in Texas and Florida
https://www.teslarati.com/spacex-begins-starship-launch-pad-upgrades-texas-florida/

[Tom_Mazanec]

I once spoke with a friend who works at NASA Glenn Research Center (he is literally a rocket scientist...he works on Mars rovers).
He said the point of NASA was originally to turn space exploration over to private industry like SpaceX.
I hope this is the start of a new era.

[TerryM]

I once spoke with a friend who works at NASA Glenn Research Center (he is literally a rocket scientist...he works on Mars rovers).
He said the point of NASA was originally to turn space exploration over to private industry like SpaceX.
I hope this is the start of a new era.

Why! in god's name why would any government develop such a massively expensive program just to hand it over to a private party?


We spent more than enough to wipe out poverty, provide world class health care, and fund everyone's education. Now they tell us they always intended to give it away?


We could have funded High Speed Rail, built gigantic solar and wind farms, maybe even put a bend in Keeling's curve, but we spent it on the dream of space - now we'll turn this dream into a nightmare of capitalistic greed.


Terry

[nanning]

^^
Ramen!

[gerontocrat]

I once spoke with a friend who works at NASA Glenn Research Center (he is literally a rocket scientist...he works on Mars rovers).
He said the point of NASA was originally to turn space exploration over to private industry like SpaceX.
I hope this is the start of a new era.

So someone said that someone said that the point of NASA was originally to privatise it. So why should I believe someone who builds space buggies?

I've got memories of a Cold War joke - 
"Our German Rocket Scientists are better than Your German Rocket Scientists". The race to the moon was a Cold War exercise. I don't think privatisation was on the agenda back then.

Since then NASA has looked up at space and down on earth, and we depend to a surprising extent on what they did and are doing.

SpaceX and the rest are, to quote Newton - "Standing on the Shoulders of Giants" and the Giant in question is NASA. If people like Trump kill NASA what do you think will happen to the science that NASA built ?

[Tom_Mazanec]

NASA stood on the shoulders of German giants, who stood on Goddard’s shoulders...
I hop there are future giants.

[Sigmetnow]

NASA’s place has historically been at the forefront, doing the things private industry could not.  Now that private industry has evolved to make near-earth spaceflight affordable, NASA should (and is) turning to more distant goals, like planetary exploration and asteroid research. 

The problem is that NASA has become hide-bound, a “jobs program” for a small but powerful group of Congressfolk who depend on NASA’s billions to maintain their districts’ economy. (And they have admitted such.)  SLS has been funded for 10 years and is billions of dollars over budget, but still hasn‘t flown.  The second generation SLS may only fly once, if that, if SpaceX Starship is as successful as their Falcon 9 at disrupting what has been.

[Sigmetnow]

Musk’s highly anticipated (to put it mildly!) Starship presentation is set for Saturday — but the Big Reveal of Starship Mk1 is happening in plain sight along a public highway in Texas!

SPadre (@SpacePadreIsle) 9/26/19, 6:48 PM
Very busy right now at SpaceX Boca Chica!

https://twitter.com/spacepadreisle/status/1177354272503160833
45 sec video: workers on crane platforms on both halves of Starship prior to final stacking....
(A lot of equipment has been installed in the nose, to help balance the rocket against the heavy engines and fuel on the bottom.)

Elon Musk (@elonmusk) 9/26/19, 8:59 PM
Raptor uses milled copper channels with an inconel jacket all the way down

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1177387141116002304
Photo below, more at the link.  Three of the all-new design Raptor engines!

SpaceX’s Starship to grow in height as workers prepare to stack its top section
https://www.teslarati.com/spacex-elon-musk-posts-new-starship-progress-photos/

[Sigmetnow]

First test flight in just a few weeks!

Elon Musk (@elonmusk) 9/27/19, 3:14 PM
Starship halves being joined

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1177662806117584896

[GoSouthYoungins]

Damn, that thing looks like a 30 mph wind will take it down. Those crazy 40 mph winds won't be needed this time

[Sigmetnow]

Jim Bridenstine (@JimBridenstine) 9/27/19, 6:26 PM
My statement on @SpaceX's announcement tomorrow:

https://twitter.com/jimbridenstine/status/1177711106300747777
Image below.

Wow.  Seems like the NASA administrator got an earful from the White House (and/or Congressfolk) angry about SpaceX’s amazing and fast Starship build compared to the embarrasingly slow (and in Boeing’s case, embarrassingly expensive) NASA programs.  Starship is stealing major thunder!

In all fairness, it is a much sexier-looking rocket.

[GoSouthYoungins]

Jim Bridenstine (@JimBridenstine) 9/27/19, 6:26 PM
My statement on @SpaceX's announcement tomorrow:

https://twitter.com/jimbridenstine/status/1177711106300747777
Image below.

Wow.  Seems like the NASA administrator got an earful from the White House (and/or Congressfolk) angry about SpaceX’s amazing and fast Starship build compared to the embarrasingly slow (and in Boeing’s case, embarrassingly expensive) NASA programs.  Starship is stealing major thunder!

In all fairness, it is a much sexier-looking rocket.

llol. You have it completely backwards (as always).

The NASA admin is throwing shade because 5 years ago SpaceX was awarded a contract to bring ppl to the ISS starting THIS YEAR but SpaceX isn't ready.

Or you can keep your looney hat on and think he is upset the Starship is so ridiculously good looking.

[Archimid]

GSY is right. This thing looks quick and cheap, no matter how shiny. If they manage to fly this thing for any period of time, let alone return it to the ground this marks another step closer to cheap accessible space.


And that got me thinking... why the shine? It sure costs more, but does it offer advantages?

[crandles]

Several reasons inc:

https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/284346-elon-musk-explains-why-the-starship-will-be-stainless-steel

It gets stronger in cold conditions

transpiration cooling

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1151950403874914304?lang=en

Yeah, big advantage of being made of high strength stainless steel: not bothered by a little heat!

https://www.space.com/43101-elon-musk-explains-stainless-steel-starship.html

Carbon fiber costs $135 per kilogram, and 35 percent of the stuff must be scrapped — "you cut the fabric, and some of it you can't use," the SpaceX founder and CEO said. So the true cost of the material is nearly $200 per kg, compared to just $3 for stainless steel, he added.

https://www.popularmechanics.com/space/rockets/a25953663/elon-musk-spacex-bfr-stainless-steel/

EM: The thing that’s counterintuitive about the stainless steel is, it’s obviously cheap, it’s obviously fast—but it’s not obviously the lightest. But it is actually the lightest. If you look at the properties of a high-quality stainless steel, the thing that isn’t obvious is that at cryogenic temperatures, the strength is boosted by 50 percent.

[Archimid]

Thanks for the informative post. The use of a stainless steel body is very interesting, but I don't understand why it has to be polished and shined. Does the smooth surface provide any significant advantage?

[GoSouthYoungins]

That is just how stainless steel looks.

[Archimid]

Ah. I see. The shininess is a characteristic of the high quality stainless steel used, light and scale. I was thinking of more common stainless steel. Stupid me.

[Sigmetnow]

Jim Bridenstine (@JimBridenstine) 9/27/19, 6:26 PM
My statement on @SpaceX's announcement tomorrow:

https://twitter.com/jimbridenstine/status/1177711106300747777
Image below.

Wow.  Seems like the NASA administrator got an earful from the White House (and/or Congressfolk) angry about SpaceX’s amazing and fast Starship build compared to the embarrasingly slow (and in Boeing’s case, embarrassingly expensive) NASA programs.  Starship is stealing major thunder!

In all fairness, it is a much sexier-looking rocket.

llol. You have it completely backwards (as always).

The NASA admin is throwing shade because 5 years ago SpaceX was awarded a contract to bring ppl to the ISS starting THIS YEAR but SpaceX isn't ready.

Or you can keep your looney hat on and think he is upset the Starship is so ridiculously good looking.

Then you must be positively shocked to learn that the Boeing CST-100 Starliner program started in 2010 and has cost billions more than Dragon!  NASA has paid SpaceX much less than Boeing to do the exact same thing.

In the first phase of its CCDev program NASA awarded Boeing US$18 million in 2010 for preliminary development of the spacecraft.[13] In the second phase Boeing was awarded a $93 million contract in 2011 for further spacecraft development.[14] On August 3, 2012, NASA announced the award of $460 million to Boeing to continue work on the CST-100 under the Commercial Crew Integrated Capability (CCiCap) Program.[15] On September 16, 2014, NASA selected the CST-100, along with SpaceX's Dragon V2, for the Commercial Crew Transportation Capability (CCtCap) program, with an award of $4.2 billion.[16] As of April 2019, the spacecraft was expected to conduct an automated test mission to the ISS in August 2019.[17] On July 30 2019, NASA had no specific dates for Commercial Crew launches, stating that this was under review pending a leadership change.[18]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_CST-100_Starliner

[Sigmetnow]

Starship will incorporate newly-developed ceramic heat sheild tiles, as well.

SpaceX tests ceramic Starship heat shield tiles on Starhopper’s final flight test
https://www.teslarati.com/spacex-tests-starship-heat-shield-tiles-on-starhopper/

[Sigmetnow]

Target dates for the Boeing launches planned for this fall have been removed.
TBD: Atlas 5 • CST-100 Starliner Orbital Flight Test
TBD: Atlas 5 • CST-100 Starliner Crew Flight Test

Meanwhile, SpaceX is planning the Dragon Inflight Abort test for November,
the Falcon 9 • Crewed Dragon Demo 2 flight for “Late 2019.”
   Plus these other SpaceX launches:
NET Nov. 11:  Falcon 9 • JCSAT 18/Kacific 1
Dec. 4:  Falcon 9 • SpaceX CRS 19 (cargo Dragon to the ISS)
And up to 4 Starlink launches by end of 2019
https://spaceflightnow.com/launch-schedule/

—-
NASA, SpaceX Test Pad Emergency Egress System
https://blogs.nasa.gov/commercialcrew/2019/09/27/nasa-spacex-test-pad-emergency-egress-system/

[Sigmetnow]

Photo below from @BocaChicaGal.  Note the Starship now has legs.
https://twitter.com/bocachicagal/status/1177944868284506117
Edit: different photo:  https://twitter.com/bocachicagal/status/1177985995242909697

——

Viv (@flcnhvy)9/28/19, 2:32 PM
Felt cute, might disrupt the spaceflight industry later idk

https://twitter.com/flcnhvy/status/1178014515562201088

——

Russell Hannigan (@RussellHannigan) 9/27/19, 7:59 PM
I kind of feel sad for ULA, Arianespace et al who have hid behind PPT decks and spreadsheets to justify staying expendable. SpaceX is out there and getting smarter every day through actually doing reusability. And, surprise, reusability works, just like all other transportation.

https://twitter.com/russellhannigan/status/1177734505706090496

——
Meme below from:
https://twitter.com/rogerstigers/status/1177719529352421377

[TerryM]

Elon Musk


Looking forward to launching @NASA
Astronauts to the international Space Station
next year!

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/893176500005908482
11:27 AM - 3 Aug 2017




Terry

[Sigmetnow]

Terry

It’s almost as though you don’t understand the lengthy NASA, FAA, FCC et al. certification process, let alone the logistics of scheduling additional vehicles and crew versus the supplies and docking ports available on the ISS.

[TerryM]

Terry

It’s almost as though you don’t understand the lengthy NASA, FAA, FCC et al. certification process, let alone the logistics of scheduling additional vehicles and crew versus the supplies and docking ports available on the ISS.

 

I'm not even expected to understand. Mr. Musk on the other hand is, and should be expected to have some knowledge of the process.


Terry

[philopek]

Terry

It’s almost as though you don’t understand the lengthy NASA, FAA, FCC et al. certification process, let alone the logistics of scheduling additional vehicles and crew versus the supplies and docking ports available on the ISS.

 

I'm not even expected to understand. Mr. Musk on the other hand is, and should be expected to have some knowledge of the process.

+1

And the range of being OFF the mark with his prognosis for the umpteenth time is between 2 years and it will never happen. Chances are high IMO that no NASA astronaut will ever leave the planet with one of those vehicles as long as they're operated by scamsters who you the vehicle to make headlines to get further billions for more of their scams.

If I were an Astronaut I'd certainly refuse to use a diletants vehicle where I'd pay with my life for every one of the many errors and if not for my own sake, there are families to be taken care of.


This is part of a ponzi scheme, remember these words when it goes bust. They need ever new money to cover old holes and seek "projects" with public effect to appear innovative.

One should have a list of all announcements comparing that list to a list of all achievements and the quality/sustainability/longevity of such projects and eventual achievements and ultimately put all that into relation with the entire amount of funds burned in how few years.

Does anyone believe that the end of the Tesla vs. Taycan race for record Laptimes has not deliberately ended the way it did? Target = Headlines reached, battle has never take place.
Just the last in a long story of similar events (similar not in kind but in goal)

Main Goal is to get headlines and headlines serve to collect money.

I suspect that once the interest rates will rise again, the entire construct goes bust and the higher interest rastes will serve as an excuse to avoid prosecution (not sure whether they get away with it)

2 Decades ago they would already have had to file for CH11 because once people made easy profits with their capital, patience was way smaller than now when in places they pay to park the money.

[Sigmetnow]

Terry

It’s almost as though you don’t understand the lengthy NASA, FAA, FCC et al. certification process, let alone the logistics of scheduling additional vehicles and crew versus the supplies and docking ports available on the ISS.

 

I'm not even expected to understand. Mr. Musk on the other hand is, and should be expected to have some knowledge of the process.


Terry

So show me someone else who has done it faster — in fact, any commercial company that has done it at all!  That’s right, you cannot. No one has. 

When you are doing things that have never been done before, it’s impossible to know what problems will arise.

Refer to the meme above with all of SpaceX’s firsts.  To doubt they will accomplish manned space flight in short order is ridiculous.

[Sigmetnow]

SpaceX (@SpaceX) 9/28/19, 5:25 PM
Watching some weather in the area; moving Starship update to no earlier than 8:00 p.m. CDT [1 am UTC]

https://twitter.com/spacex/status/1178058268331012096

SPadre (@SpacePadreIsle) 9/28/19, 6:01 PM
Falcon 1 is being hoisted next to Starship!!!

https://twitter.com/spacepadreisle/status/1178067217256271872
Video clip of the hoist at the link.  September 28 is the 11th anniversary of Falcon 1 reaching orbit.  A pivotal day in SpaceX history.

[Sigmetnow]

The first Starship flight will be to ~20 km (65,000 feet) in altitude.

SpaceX CEO Elon Musk provides update on Starship program

The first test flight will see the Starship Mk1 fly to 20 kilometers from Boca Chica and then land on a landing zone adjacent to the launch pad. This test flight is approximately one to two months away, said Musk at Saturday’s event.

From there, Musk stated that the next flight after that might be all the way to orbit with a Super Heavy booster. This could utilize the Mk3 vehicle, which will be built in Boca Chica and will begin construction in about a month.

https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2019/09/spacex-musk-update-starship-program/

Here is the Boca Chica presentation.  After Musk’s talk, there is a Q&A session with questions from the press.

[Sigmetnow]

Such a great interview and only four minutes long.
(Controls may be hidden; click the image to start/stop, and you can scrub back and forth on the bottom bar.j

[CNN Interview] Elon Musk: Starship could take people to orbit within a year - spacex
https://www.reddit.com/r/spacex/comments/davt2l/cnn_interview_elon_musk_starship_could_take/

Paraphrasing Musk:
- Re Bridenstein’s “years behind schedule” tweet — “Did he say commercial crew, or SLS?  Haha.” (wink)
- Everything in aerospace is years behind. Relatively speaking, it’s a question of which one is more late.
- The hardware for the inflight abort test will be there in October, and the hardware for astronauts to the space station will be there in November.  Most of the work still needed to fly NASA astronauts is a long series of safety reviews.  It’s not really hardware-related.  We will be transporting NASA astronauts to the space station in, I don’t know, 3 to 4 months.
- If development continues exponentially, I think we could send people to space in Starship in about a year.

From the Reddit comments:
< To further increase the injury here, Elon is showing that something bigger and better than SLS can be built in a few months in a field in south Texas with a fraction of the budget.
< [Re using steel:]  up until now, all rockets were expended after only one use. The goal was always to optimize mass and increase payload capacity, so light materials and composites were standard for that reason. It's the reusability factor that no one had seriously looked into that really changes things.
< He's such a nice guy.
< He's actually a massive douche, but is forgiven because he's a pioneer. It's hard to be a hard charger and still be nice. I don't care either way.

[crandles]

Re Bridenstein’s “years behind schedule” tweet

Others seems to find the tweet interesting for it to be brought up, so I'll add my thoughts:

My hypothesis on this is that NASA wanted to appear to political paymasters they were giving SpaceX and Boeing a 'stay focused' slap on the wrist. Both SpaceX and Boeing are about a year behind; problems arises and that is normal for the industry. So “years behind schedule” doesn't really make sense unless you are going back to the period before 2014 and the original plan for first flights by 2015. This slipped a lot because of funding.

Therefore it seems possible NASA wanted to appear to political paymasters they were giving SpaceX and Boeing a 'stay focused' slap on the wrist but the hidden message when you understand the meaning is that NASA is saying to political paymasters 'don't blame us, blame yourselves for lack of funding'.

SpaceX and Boeing are more likely to understand this hidden message; Nasa could have spoken to them to ask them not to give the game away.

This is sounding a bit too conspiracy theory and is therefore likely wrong.

[Sigmetnow]

... NASA is saying to political paymasters 'don't blame us, blame yourselves for lack of funding'.

I agree his tweet was mostly aimed at “political paymasters,” not SpaceX and Boeing.  Those two companies are already in a fierce rivalry and race to be the first to fly astronauts back to the ISS, and Bridenstine knows it’s NASA’s exceedingly cautious safety reviews that are slowing things down (albeit not without reason).

Could part of the irritation involve the millions of dollars the U.S. is paying Russia to fly our astronauts?  Was Congress less than generous because the Russia payments were essentially subtracted from what NASA itself would have received? 
Would the Commercial Crew program have progressed faster if NASA had had more funding?  Maybe.  NASA doled out the money (unequally) as it saw fit.  Shifting the blame is par for the course.

[Sigmetnow]

SpaceX Has Starry-Eyed Ambitions for Its Starship
Elon Musk has laid out an ambitious future for his spaceship project, the effort to deliver people to the moon and Mars.
https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2019/09/elon-musk-spacex-starship/599065/

—-

Jon Erlichman (@JonErlichman) 9/29/19, 7:00 PM
11 years ago, SpaceX completed its first successful launch.
- valuation then: $410 million
- valuation now: $52 billion*
(*Morgan Stanley estimate)

https://twitter.com/jonerlichman/status/1178444405625237504
At the link: 41-second video of that Falcon 1 launch and staging.

—-

Austin Barnard (@austinbarnard45) 9/29/19, 12:13 PM
StarShip looks absolutely gorgeous this morning.

https://twitter.com/austinbarnard45/status/1178341922139758592
Photo below.
< I just realized last night what it's sitting on!
Those are the pilings they drilled and poured in the last couple weeks with the tall crane.
That's how it's secured, by sitting on top of 6 concrete pillars 80 feet or whatever in the ground.
So no legs yet, just mounts.

< What’s the hole for?

runni’n news (@rlikness) 9/29/19, 12:28 PM 
So that Elon can look inside

https://twitter.com/rlikness/status/1178345757444694016
Photo below.

[Sigmetnow]

A single Starship has more potentially livable area than the entire ISS.

SpaceX publishes dedicated Starship webpage after Elon Musk’s presentation

The ISS is undeniably large but Starship is (relatively) even bigger, nominally featuring enough pressurized volume (~1000m3 vs ~910m3) to more than double the habitable capacity of the ISS upon arrival. CEO Elon Musk noted this in an offhand remark on September 28th, cognizant of the fact that a Starship on its own is effectively a reusable ISS-class space station that can be placed in orbit with a single launch.

If a given Starship can support a crew of astronauts over a multi-month interplanetary cruise, the same Starship can also – and probably even more easily so – serve as an all-in-one space station with months of longevity. Add in Starship-enabled resupply and refueling runs and SpaceX could likely sustain a fleet of autonomous space stations in Earth orbit with relative ease. ...

https://www.teslarati.com/spacex-publishes-starship-webpage-elon-musk-presentation/

*cough* “Lunar Gateway” *cough*

https://www.spacex.com/starship


 

[vox_mundi]

Elon Musk’s Future Starship Updates Could Use More Details on Human Health and Survival
https://www.theverge.com/platform/amp/2019/10/4/20895056/elon-musk-starship-spacex-human-health-life-support-radiation

SpaceX CEO Elon Musk has now given four presentations about his company’s Starship rocket, but all of those updates mostly focused on the vehicle’s external stats. Musk has barely touched on the technologies needed to keep people alive and healthy while on Starship — technologies that need to be developed relatively soon if the spacecraft has any hope of carrying people to deep-space destinations like the Moon and Mars in the near future.

[Sigmetnow]

Elon Musk’s Future Starship Updates Could Use More Details on Human Health and Survival

- There’s time yet.  First need to get the Starship flying!
- First human flights (next year or two) will be short, and can use something like Crew Dragon’s systems.
- The ISS offers plenty of experience with longer-term life support systems to draw from.
- If docked at the ISS, there will be some sharing of life support.
- Human missions around the moon aren’t envisioned until Yusaku Maezawa‘s Dear Moon mission in 2023 at the earliest.
- Water storage filling the area between the walls of Starship and the pressurized living space would decrease radiation inside.
- For long missions, Reddit has examined the idea of running a long tether between two Starships and spinning them in a circle just fast enough to generate a comfortable gravity inside:
https://www.reddit.com/r/spacex/comments/d032bi/potential_for_artificial_gravity_on_starship/
- Musk said in the Starship Q&A that sending Boring Company machines along to the moon and Mars would be a good idea, to make a protected living space below the surface.*
- Musk has previously said that SpaceX is more for providing the transportation, while others will be more involved in setting up colonies, ensuring a pizza supply, etc.

All that said, it’s true that everyone is still very curious as to exactly how the difficulties of keeping humans alive off-earth will be accomplished.  We’ve shown it can be done; now, how can it be made better? 


Edit: 
P.S.:  *Reminder:  Boring Company machines run on electricity, whereas most boring machines use diesel engines that require an earth atmosphere....

[TerryM]

<snipped>
Edit: 
P.S.:  *Reminder:  Boring Company machines run on electricity, whereas most boring machines use diesel engines that require an earth atmosphere....

Can you provide a link?
Thanks
Terry

[Sigmetnow]

<snipped>
Edit: 
P.S.:  *Reminder:  Boring Company machines run on electricity, whereas most boring machines use diesel engines that require an earth atmosphere....

Can you provide a link?
Thanks
Terry

Sorry, I seem unable to simply provide a link. But here’s some info:

The Boring Company Shows Off Its Functional Demo Tunnel In Hawthorne, California

The team has finally taken those learnings and started work on the next-generation tunnel boring machine (TBM), which it calls Linestorm. Linestorm’s mission is to explore the potential to increase the speed of the tunnel boring process by implementing some of the possible improvements the team identified through boring the first demo tunnel with Godot.

First off, Linestorm was built as a fully electric tunnel boring machine from the ground up, which stands in stark contrast to traditional diesel boring machines. Eliminating the combustion means there is no need to fill up throughout the day and, more importantly, drastically reduces the amount of ventilation equipment and infrastructure required to allow humans to work in the tunnel alongside the boring machines.

The second requirement is that they are increasing the power of the TBM. Their initial analysis showed that the power output could be tripled with little more than an upgrade to the cooling system. That allows the machine to dig farther, faster, which is ultimately the whole objective.

Elon shared that for every work hour, only 10 minutes is actually spent boring. The rest of the time is spent reinforcing the newly exposed earth and other logistical tasks. The Boring Company is skirting this altogether by working on a process that would automatically reinforce the walls of the tunnel while they bore. This obviously enables boring to go faster, but also allows the team to use the dirt that was just dug out to produce the reinforcement for the walls. After all, 70% of the material that goes into those very same wall reinforcements is dirt, just like what they’re digging out of the ground.

The next generation of boring machines will also be autonomous. Per The Boring Company, “While smaller-diameter tunneling machines are automated, larger ones currently require multiple human operators. By automating the larger TBMs, both safety and efficiency are increased.” ...

https://cleantechnica.com/2018/12/19/the-boring-company-shows-off-its-functional-demo-tunnel-in-hawthorne-california/

This video includes a clip (at ~15:30) of the electric locomotive TBC built, using Tesla motors and batteries, to haul the dirt out of the tunnel — traditionally, these have been diesel operated, too.
The Boring Company Information Session - YouTube

[TerryM]

Sig
Didn't we go through this ~a yr. ago?


I have no doubt that cleantechnica and others have posted such claims, but it just ain't so.


https://application.wiley-vch.de/books/sample/3433016763_c01.pdf


https://www.therobbinscompany.com/about/history/


The 1st link is a general history of TBMs
The second the history of TBMs designed & built by The Robbins Company, a leader in the field.


A quick scan will reveal that prior to modern electrical units, compressed air provided the power - not diesel, also that conveyor belts to extract the muck isn't a new concept, and incidentally you'll see that small diameter TBMs (as small as 1M) were around long before Elon bought his sewer pipe TBM unit with great fanfare.


Musk's engineers may well make some modifications that will prove efficacious as it's a very rapidly advancing field, but they won't be closely related to those featured in the cleantechnica article. The article is a puff piece rather than a serious look at where the field is headed. There aren't many advantages to be had in running a large machine on batteries when it's so much easier (and more efficient) to just plug it in.


In Las Vegas Elon's liable to find prospective employees that had worked on the "Third Straw" project, a large tunnel boring project that was ~recently completed. Their expertise in the field should help.
Terry

[Rob Dekker]

<snipped>
Edit: 
P.S.:  *Reminder:  Boring Company machines run on electricity, whereas most boring machines use diesel engines that require an earth atmosphere....

Can you provide a link?
Thanks
Terry

https://www.theverge.com/2018/12/19/18148061/boring-tunnel-test-drive-hawthorne-tesla-elon-musk

... the innovations The Boring Company says it’s bringing are to the business of tunneling itself: having the tunnel-boring machines run electric instead of on diesel fuel; tripling the tunnel-boring machine’s power; automating the machine so it doesn’t rely on human operators; and allowing it to operate continuously.....

But this is really something for the "Boring" Co thread, not the SpaceX thread.

[Rob Dekker]

This SpaceX thread is nice, away from the political threads that get so polarized and hijacked by off-topic arguments.

Here something cool about SpaceX :

Elon in discussion with fellow-nerd and you-tuber "The Everyday Astronaut" talking space tech :

About how to speed up engineering progress, and
stainless steel versus carbon fiber, and
about what's the best rocket fuel.

I would love technical discussions like this on the ASIF.

Please un-censor me, Neven, and censor the political attack-dogs that smear Elon and SpaceX and Tesla for political reasons instead. Thanks !

[Sigmetnow]

Although SpaceX and NASA have been “collaborating” on in-space refueling technology, this may be the first federal money SpaceX has received for the Starship project.

SpaceX wins NASA funds to build and test Starship’s orbital refueling technology

SpaceX has won $3M from NASA to build and test the first full-scale Starship refueling nozzles.

On September 27th, NASA announced a new round of Tipping Point funding worth a total of $43.2M that will be dispersed among 14 separate companies, all focused on advancing “important technologies necessary for sustained exploration of the Moon and Mars.”

Aside from Blue Origin and a dozen others, SpaceX received $3M to work with NASA’s Marshall Space Flight Center (MSFC) to build and test “cryogenic fluid couplers”, a type of nozzle Starship will need to refuel in orbit. ...

https://www.teslarati.com/spacex-wins-nasa-funds-starship-orbital-refueling-test/

[Sigmetnow]

Eric Berger (@SciGuySpace) 10/8/19, 10:08 AM
Source says "full panic has ensued" as NASA realizes commercial crew may not be ready in first half of 2020; and Gerstenmeier is no longer around to help the companies along, or negotiate with Russians for more Soyuz seats. Focus on Artemis may put ISS program in real danger.

https://twitter.com/sciguyspace/status/1181572161917607948

Elon Musk (@elonmusk) 10/8/19, 10:36 AM
@SciGuySpace For what it’s worth, the SpaceX schedule, which I’ve just reviewed in depth, shows Falcon & Dragon at the Cape & all testing done in ~10 weeks

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1181579173388673025

NASA may ask SpaceX to extend duration of Crew Dragon test flight
https://spaceflightnow.com/2019/10/07/nasa-may-ask-spacex-to-extend-duration-of-crew-dragon-test-flight/

NASA needs to find a way to expedite their Dragon safety review.  (Considering they have contemplated dropping actual firing tests of the SLS, they are sometimes able to think outside the box....)

[Sigmetnow]

Not SpaceX, but here’s another approach to orbital refueling: NG’s MEV is on its way to GEO orbit to dock with a satellite low on fuel — remaining attached to it and providing fuel for a few years until the satellite reaches the end of its useful life — whereupon it will detach and move to similarly service another satellite.
Also discussed:  the “GEO graveyard” orbit.

Proton rocket ride-share launches Northrop Grumman’s Mission Extension Vehicle
https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2019/10/proton-rocket-launch-northrop-extension-vehicle/

——-
And here’s additional background on Dragon being certified for its first crewed flight:

SpaceX’s Crew Dragon, Falcon 9 likely ready for astronaut launch debut in 10 weeks, says Musk
https://www.teslarati.com/spacex-crew-dragon-falcon-9-ready-astronaut-launch-debut/

[Sigmetnow]

After NASA chief Bridenstine’s bizarre Twitter comment, a hastily arranged SpaceX factory tour and media event is scheduled for tomorrow.

NASA says that the post-tour media Q&A with Bridenstine and Musk will be streamed on the NASA administrator’s Twitter account and will kick off around 2pm PDT (19:00 UTC) on Thursday, October 10th.

NASA administrator set to tour SpaceX’s rocket, spaceship factory with Elon Musk

...Perhaps most notably, news of this surprise media event comes a little over a week after the NASA administrator published a bizarre and widely-criticized statement essentially equating Musk’s public Starship presentation to a company-wide lack of focus on Crew Dragon and NASA’s Commercial Crew Program (CCP). As recently discussed on Teslarati, Bridenstine’s statement was tone-deaf at best and delusional at worst.

“Ironically, despite literally receiving almost seven times as much funding as Crew Dragon and Starliner, SLS and Orion are arguably just as – if not even more – delayed than their commercial brethren. Originally intended to launch an uncrewed test flight in 2017, there is now little to no chance that that mission (known then as EM-1 and now as Artemis-1) will launch before 2022, a delay of roughly half a decade. The cost of the SLS/Orion program recently crested $30B, a figure likely to grow to ~$40B before it has conducted a single launch. Of that funding, approximately a third has gone to Boeing, the primary contractor responsible for NASA’s comically-delayed SLS Core Stage – the orange booster pictured above.

Put simply, if Bridenstine actually cared about defending “the investments of the American taxpayer” more than wielding their sanctity as a political weapon, he wouldn’t have folded like a house of cards at the slightest resistance to his attempts to cull SLS/Orion delays and cost overruns, and he certainly wouldn’t be wasting breath complaining about what SpaceX’s CEO is or isn’t talking about.”

Teslarati – October 4th, 2019

https://www.teslarati.com/nasa-admin-elon-musk-schedule-spacex-factory-tour/

——-
Teslarati’s Oct 4 op-ed:
NASA head calls out SpaceX CEO Elon Musk over Starship event in bizarre statement
https://www.teslarati.com/nasa-head-calls-out-spacex-ceo-elon-musk-starship-event/

[Sigmetnow]

Because politics.  And a cow.

SpaceX to shift Falcon 9’s next West Coast launch to Florida, the first of its kind in decades

According to NASASpaceflight spaceflight reporter Michael Baylor and an Argentinian government website, SpaceX appears to have decided to move its next West Coast launch from California to Florida, signifying the first East Coast polar launch in half a century could be just four months away.
...
In Monteith’s 2017 statement, it was stated that there is one major condition on the reopening: all launch vehicles intending to fly it must feature autonomous flight termination systems (AFTS). This is due to the risk that the rocket’s plume might prevent the reliable reception of radio telemetry at Florida-based tracking stations. SpaceX is currently the only launch provider in the world to have implemented AFTS and is thus the only provider currently capable of launching polar missions from Florida.

https://www.teslarati.com/spacex-falcon-9-next-west-coast-launch-moves-east/

[Sigmetnow]

The Bridenstine/Musk SpaceX tour and reassurance media event 

SpaceX’s astronaut launch debut Crew Dragon capsule shown off in first public photos

As part of a last-second media event at SpaceX’s Hawthorne, CA rocket factory and headquarters, members of the media were allowed to take the first public photos of the Crew Dragon spacecraft expected to support the company’s astronaut launch debut.

According to NASA administrator Jim Bridenstine and SpaceX CEO Elon Musk, that inaugural Crew Dragon astronaut launch (known as Demo-2) could come as early as the first quarter of 2020*. A great amount of work remains before NASA is likely to give SpaceX permission to launch, but both leaders were fairly confident that Crew Dragon’s first crewed launch is likely to come sooner than later. ...

https://www.teslarati.com/spacex-first-photos-astronaut-rated-crew-dragon/
*IF upcoming final tests succeed as expected. 
Video of the event at the link.
Below: Excluding Falcon 9, all pieces of SpaceX's first astronaut-rated Crew Dragon spacecraft are visible in this one frame. (Teslarati - Pauline Acalin)

[Tor Bejnar]

Just a curiosity: my day job as a regulator had me overhear a 'hallway conference' about who was claiming certain petroleum storage tanks - The feds or SpaceX - and the need for paperwork to be submitted to determine who claimed what.  (One of my colleagues had never heard of SpaceX before, not that that was relevant to the discussion.)  I hadn't previously thought to wonder if I would ever be asked to review SpaceX documents.  (If they are properly prepared, I'm unlikely to ever see or hear about them.)

[Sigmetnow]

Just a curiosity: my day job as a regulator had me overhear a 'hallway conference' about who was claiming certain petroleum storage tanks - The feds or SpaceX - and the need for paperwork to be submitted to determine who claimed what.  (One of my colleagues had never heard of SpaceX before, not that that was relevant to the discussion.)  I hadn't previously thought to wonder if I would ever be asked to review SpaceX documents.  (If they are properly prepared, I'm unlikely to ever see or hear about them.)

I can’t find the reference at the moment, but there is a huge old (oxygen? fuel?) tank from the Apollo era still sitting on the grounds of LC-39A in Florida (which is now leased to SpaceX).  SpaceX isn’t using it, although they might find a use for it at some point.  I wonder if this is the object of discussion you heard. 

[Sigmetnow]

An engineering team at the University of British Columbia is examining what would be needed to produce methane and oxygen fuel for a SpaceX Starship on Mars. 

It would make sense to send a Starship rigged for that purpose: the plant is mounted in the cargo area and the Starship’s own tanks are used for storage of the gasses.

Commenter “Martianspirit” wrote:

The tanks can be used for propellant storage.
The plant can be self contained in the cargo area of a Starship.
The solar arrays need to be set up outside. Quite possible this too can be done automated, at least partially. Maybe not for an array with several MW.
What is tricky and probably needs crew on site is digging and processing the water before it can be fed into the plant. At least for an extended time of operation problem solving by humans will be needed.

https://www.reddit.com/r/spacex/comments/dhbmx1/a_proposed_mars_sabatier_fuel_plant_for_starship/

(The first, uncrewed Starships may well remain on Mars, providing a source of supplies for the following crewed missions.)

[gerontocrat]

(The first, uncrewed Starships may well remain on Mars, providing a source of supplies for the following crewed missions.)

The first, crewed Starships may well remain on Mars as may well the humans on board - involuntarily.