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petm

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #4800 on: July 27, 2019, 06:57:01 PM »
Sorry for the flood. Last one and content-oriented...

Speaking of models and their usefulness or lack thereof (you decide), as was previously mentioned, Slater's model seems to have settled on an early minimum near the end of August of approx. 4 million sq. km. Given that this model simply produces average probabilities of survival based on concentration, and given how much thinner (etc.) the ice is than average, it will be particularly interesting to see how this prediction compares to reality in a month or so.

bbr2314

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #4801 on: July 27, 2019, 06:58:57 PM »
Sorry for the flood. Last one and content-oriented...

Speaking of models and their usefulness or lack thereof (you decide), as was previously mentioned, Slater's model seems to have settled on an early minimum near the end of August of approx. 4 million sq. km. Given that this simple model simply produces average probabilities of survival based on concentration, and given how much thinner (etc.) the ice is than average, it will be particularly interesting to see how this prediction compares to reality in a month or so.
I think Slater also uses previous years which is why its usefulness is now petering out as we approach the minimum, and possibly do worse than any other year on record. A minimum by 9/1 is (IMO) highly unlikely, in fact I would argue the state of things may portend a minimum in LATE September. It is interesting to see reality now diverging from the forecast, which I do think is very useful, just not so much at minimum when record or near-record setting conditions could be expected.

petm

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #4802 on: July 27, 2019, 07:03:15 PM »
I think Slater also uses previous years

Exactly. Which to me makes it perhaps more interesting rather than less. A kind of benchmark to see how much anomaly we get out of changed conditions.

Shared Humanity

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #4803 on: July 27, 2019, 07:12:25 PM »
Sorry for the flood. Last one and content-oriented...

Speaking of models and their usefulness or lack thereof (you decide), as was previously mentioned, Slater's model seems to have settled on an early minimum near the end of August of approx. 4 million sq. km. Given that this simple model simply produces average probabilities of survival based on concentration, and given how much thinner (etc.) the ice is than average, it will be particularly interesting to see how this prediction compares to reality in a month or so.
I think Slater also uses previous years which is why its usefulness is now petering out as we approach the minimum, and possibly do worse than any other year on record. A minimum by 9/1 is (IMO) highly unlikely, in fact I would argue the state of things may portend a minimum in LATE September. It is interesting to see reality now diverging from the forecast, which I do think is very useful, just not so much at minimum when record or near-record setting conditions could be expected.

The previous 6 years all had extent minimums in the 1st half of September. I'd be surprised if the extent minimum occurs by September 1. Also surprised if it occurred very late in September. Mid month is most likely.

UCMiami

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #4804 on: July 27, 2019, 07:19:37 PM »
gerontocrat...please do not question the value of all of the work you have done

+1
+2
It is annoying that there is not a universal definition of the arctic sea divisions - I can understand the the reasoning behind each, but it does cause issues in translation between different data sources.
But take heart gerontocrat - your contributions on this forum are vast and only a small portion of them involve mismatched sources.

Shared Humanity

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #4805 on: July 27, 2019, 07:31:26 PM »
philopek, please note that Rich repeatedly ignored good arguments recently in this topic, and continues to do so. For example, in very post you quote, he talks about "over most of the rest of the ice covered areas" despite it was mentioned more than once, recently in this topic, that surface temperatures over existing ice indicate nothing and are always near 0C as long as there is ice, since any extra heat goes to melt the ice before it could go to increase surface temperature.

Several posters tried to tell Rich recently, this and that way, that his posts are far from being appreciated. It just does not work - Rich keeps doing his thing, which at times includes ad hominem-like responses. If you see such, don't let yourself be provoked by it. We just gotta endure presense of this guy, i guess... :)

Most of this is off topic and unnecessary.

You know which portions.

bbr2314

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #4806 on: July 27, 2019, 07:42:19 PM »
Sorry for the flood. Last one and content-oriented...

Speaking of models and their usefulness or lack thereof (you decide), as was previously mentioned, Slater's model seems to have settled on an early minimum near the end of August of approx. 4 million sq. km. Given that this simple model simply produces average probabilities of survival based on concentration, and given how much thinner (etc.) the ice is than average, it will be particularly interesting to see how this prediction compares to reality in a month or so.
I think Slater also uses previous years which is why its usefulness is now petering out as we approach the minimum, and possibly do worse than any other year on record. A minimum by 9/1 is (IMO) highly unlikely, in fact I would argue the state of things may portend a minimum in LATE September. It is interesting to see reality now diverging from the forecast, which I do think is very useful, just not so much at minimum when record or near-record setting conditions could be expected.

The previous 6 years all had extent minimums in the 1st half of September. I'd be surprised if the extent minimum occurs by September 1. Also surprised if it occurred very late in September. Mid month is most likely.
You are correct re: previous 6 years, however, we are on a similar course with 2012 / 2007 vs. anything more recent. I think the abundance of open water this year + early snows in the continents will advect more oceanic heat up north, giving us the late minimum a la the previous two most awful ice years (though I could easily be wrong).

UCMiami

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #4807 on: July 27, 2019, 07:43:34 PM »
Appears that the Nares is sending ice south again - Nullschool and Windy have been reporting winds from the N for the last 24 hours and Hall Basin is clearing out.

Wonder how long this will continue and how it may affect the ice in the Lincoln

Wildcatter

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #4808 on: July 27, 2019, 07:43:47 PM »
It looks like the entire pack may go completely mobile, with the crack from the CAA all the way to the Fram. I'm pretty certain that has never happened before.

Tor Bejnar

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #4809 on: July 27, 2019, 07:48:43 PM »
Re: when minimum will occur

The North Pole and its environs have the shortest melting season.  In the 'olden days' when it had virtually no melting season, what happened there didn't affect when the Arctic melting season ended (extent-wise).  Now that the high-Arctic (vaguely/approximately 82-85ish to 90N) is part of the melting season, when it starts freezing over (long before other areas) it affects the timing of the 'melting season end'.

This is just like at the other end of the season:  extent and area start to go down long before volume starts declining. 
Therefore, when minimum extent occurs will happen when lower-latitude ice melting slows to a crawl and high-Arctic freezing speeds up.  I think (under current decade realities) the more high-Arctic melt there is, the sooner will be the minimum.  Edit:  this may be 'over-ruled' by the Atlantification of that side of the high-Arctic, where warm water seriously prevents surface freezing.
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F.Tnioli

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #4810 on: July 27, 2019, 07:59:40 PM »
... I think (under current decade realities) the more high-Arctic melt there is, the sooner will be the minimum.
NASA pretty much disagrees with you: "The increases in surface ocean temperatures, combined with a warming Arctic atmosphere due to climate change, explain the delayed freeze up in the fall". Source. The general trend also disagrees with you: see figure 3 on this page.
To everyone: before posting in a melting season topic, please be sure to know contents of this moderator's post: https://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php/topic,3017.msg261893.html#msg261893 . Thanks!

Neven

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #4811 on: July 27, 2019, 08:02:19 PM »
You made it personal. How can this help?

Agreed. Let's all stay on-topic, keep it as short as possible, only quote the bits we want to reply to, not engage in meta-discussions, and take off-topic discussions elsewhere asap. This thread is for discussing what is going on in the Arctic, right here, right now.
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F.Tnioli

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #4812 on: July 27, 2019, 08:13:03 PM »
Shared Humanity, while i disagree, my respect to you is greater than my disagreement with this particular opinion of yours. I did as promised and removed those couple posts which you deemed not helpful. And again, thank you for caring about it, sir. :)
To everyone: before posting in a melting season topic, please be sure to know contents of this moderator's post: https://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php/topic,3017.msg261893.html#msg261893 . Thanks!

uniquorn

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #4813 on: July 27, 2019, 08:13:40 PM »
So the CAB average thickness as at 15 July I stated as 2.6 metres is more like 2.1.
Despite the difficulties it causes you, I'm pleased. 2.1m avg CAB thickness fits better with what I've been seeing on worldview and with the piomas thickness animation.
Once again, thanks for the number crunching.

oren

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #4814 on: July 27, 2019, 08:26:49 PM »
... I think (under current decade realities) the more high-Arctic melt there is, the sooner will be the minimum.
NASA pretty much disagrees with you: "The increases in surface ocean temperatures, combined with a warming Arctic atmosphere due to climate change, explain the delayed freeze up in the fall". Source. The general trend also disagrees with you: see figure 3 on this page.
I actually agree with Tor and I don't think NASA diagrees. The Sept. minimum is reached at the onset of refreeze. After that, the fall freezing can be very delayed. Both of these effects happened in 2016, the year that made the biggest attack on the very high arctic near the pole, and was therefore hit with an early refreeze onset on Sept. 8th or 9th. After that the rest of the arctic took ages to freeze, with Chukchi open water lasting until January. Melting continued in the Beaufort about a month after refreeze onset.

To those mentioning the Slater model, I do not find it very useful myself, but want to correct the misconception. The model does NOT predict an August minimum. The model generates a forecast for a date 50 days ahead. When at a later date it gives another forecast, it does not mean the model expects the ice to follow the path of paat predictions. If it recently raised the forecast, in essence it means that the whole path will be upwards of the previously expected path.

F.Tnioli

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #4815 on: July 27, 2019, 08:50:20 PM »
... I think (under current decade realities) the more high-Arctic melt there is, the sooner will be the minimum.
snippage ... The general trend also disagrees with you: see figure 3 on this page.
I actually agree with Tor and I don't think NASA diagrees. The Sept. minimum is reached at the onset of refreeze. After that, the fall freezing can be very delayed. Both of these effects happened in 2016, the year that made the biggest attack on the very high arctic near the pole, and was therefore hit with an early refreeze onset on Sept. 8th or 9th. ... snippage
Most interesting! Ok, Oren, you got a point about NASA line, so let's just forget about it. But what about general trend? As for 2016 - wasn't 2016 very unusual weather much of the season? And anyhow, it's a cherry. How about i pick another cherry and remind you that 2018 season ended as late as September 23rd or so? ;)

And then there is one other simple point about this: season's end is by extent, and this season shows no sign of huge extra losses of extent exactly in CAB at the minimum, no? It ain't looking to go to something like 2016 minimum, when large amounts of ice survived outside CAB in pacific and siberian sectors, iirc. So you see, early re-freeze in the CAB would not add that much extent, this year.
To everyone: before posting in a melting season topic, please be sure to know contents of this moderator's post: https://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php/topic,3017.msg261893.html#msg261893 . Thanks!

oren

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #4816 on: July 27, 2019, 09:19:39 PM »
I agree, for now 2019 seems to be more compacted and hopefully resilient near the pole, same as 2012 and unlike 2016.

petm

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #4817 on: July 27, 2019, 09:45:00 PM »
If it recently raised the forecast, in essence it means that the whole path will be upwards of the previously expected path.

I don't agree with this, but I don't want to get into it on this thread.

Edit: Please use this thread for further Slater model discussion not directly related to the 2019 melt season: https://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php/topic,1682.0.html .
« Last Edit: July 27, 2019, 11:54:49 PM by petm »

Shared Humanity

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #4818 on: July 27, 2019, 09:54:32 PM »
Can you make a gif of this?

Sublime_Rime

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #4819 on: July 27, 2019, 10:10:09 PM »
According to 12Z GFS it seems like the current heatwave will be more prolonged in the eastern CAA, North Greenland/Greenland sea and the Atlantic CAB, three areas that have been lagging in extent loss (except Lincoln). This could make quite a hit to volume, as these areas have been where the thickest ice seems to be hanging out as of last PIOMAS.

Not sure where 2019 will fall relative to 2012 in extent or area, but I'm starting to think it might be volume where 2019 leaves its mark. I'm also wondering if unexpected non-linear effects will take shape as we approach new volume records.

Soooooo happy to have you back Neven! I have always appreciated your moderation/contribution, but never more so than in the past week. You are like the superego that keeps the collective attention focused in a meditation on this grave topic. I think we are all prone to identifying with our posts, and taking disagreement personally. I encourage all to be wary of this...you are not your posts!
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Shared Humanity

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #4820 on: July 27, 2019, 10:14:11 PM »
Yeah but I'll try cropping it first. Just this single uncropped image is 620 KB so a gif would be huge.

Thanks...

Richard Rathbone

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #4821 on: July 27, 2019, 10:27:10 PM »
Sorry for the flood. Last one and content-oriented...

Speaking of models and their usefulness or lack thereof (you decide), as was previously mentioned, Slater's model seems to have settled on an early minimum near the end of August of approx. 4 million sq. km. Given that this model simply produces average probabilities of survival based on concentration, and given how much thinner (etc.) the ice is than average, it will be particularly interesting to see how this prediction compares to reality in a month or so.

Can we stop posting this nonsense about the Slater model, its been debunked several times already in this thread. It makes no prediction about the minimum at all, merely what the ice will be like in 50 days time based on current conditions.

Steerpike

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #4822 on: July 27, 2019, 10:27:44 PM »
With all the talk of volume, and much well-placed cynicism regarding the data, is there a time of the year the data can be considered more accurate (e.g. absence of melt ponds)? If so, perhaps then we will have a lot more info on the impact of this year's weather on volume.

UCMiami

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #4823 on: July 27, 2019, 10:46:19 PM »
Based on various weather sites, it appears there is a lot of long carry wind headed out the various channels of the Barents - wondering if this will start picking up the export of CAB and we might see increases in Barents area and extent. The forecasts imply the winds will last through the next week. The CAB north of Barents already has some decent cracks/gaps and I wonder if this might almost split a section of the CAB off?

The Kara might also end up importing some ice from that Laptev/CAB.

petm

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #4824 on: July 27, 2019, 10:49:15 PM »
Can we stop posting this nonsense

Can we stop trying to derail this thread with inflamatory comments? Responded to here: https://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php/topic,1682.msg216731.html#msg216731

philopek

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #4825 on: July 27, 2019, 10:51:33 PM »
Based on various weather sites, it appears there is a lot of long carry wind headed out the various channels of the Barents - wondering if this will start picking up the export of CAB and we might see increases in Barents area and extent. The forecasts imply the winds will last through the next week. The CAB north of Barents already has some decent cracks/gaps and I wonder if this might almost split a section of the CAB off?

The Kara might also end up importing some ice from that Laptev/CAB.

I know what you mean but if it comes true any ice in that regions you named will melt quite quickly at this time of the year which means that won't be good for the ice at all.

Let's see

Rod

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #4826 on: July 27, 2019, 10:52:06 PM »
With all the talk of volume, and much well-placed cynicism regarding the data, is there a time of the year the data can be considered more accurate (e.g. absence of melt ponds)? If so, perhaps then we will have a lot more info on the impact of this year's weather on volume.

PIOMAS is the best model we have, but it is still a model.  For observational data, when the ice is cold and frozen, ie. no water on top of it, the SMOS thickness data is the best we have.  Lars Kaleschke is the expert on that data product. Google his name and SMOS and you will find lots of information. 

There is a new satellite that launched last fall called ICESat-2 that will hopefully provide very accurate information about sea ice thickness.  Unfortunately, it’s gridded data product is not yet available. 

F.Tnioli

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #4827 on: July 27, 2019, 10:57:46 PM »
I agree, for now 2019 seems to be more compacted and hopefully resilient near the pole, same as 2012 and unlike 2016.
Why "hopefully resilient" if we say that near the pole will re-freeze early September, though? If you mean wishing well for arctic sea ice in general, through the seasons, - then it's not much difference IMO. Multi-year ice is pretty much history now, anyway; and winter will refreeze "near the pole" quite very well anyhow - next freezing season, i mean. Far not enough ocean heat content to prevent it - for now.

Meanwhile, as if recent insane temperatures in northern parts of Canada and predicted very strong high over Greenland would not be enough, - we now have masses of hot air from Sahara and Spain heading towards Greenland, they say. It's that same heatwave which killed people in Europe just few days ago which now goes to "visit". Yet even worse its effects will be if that high pressure would then "anchor" itself in the region through self-enhancing clear sky extra heating.

We know it can happen, because it already happened in very similar circumstances: in 2010 over central Russia, about same time of the year (July / August), more than a month of unprecedented heat and clear skies - and in that case air masses came from dry desert lands much closer to the equator, too. Almost choking Moscow and whole regions in smoke from all the fires around, destroying ~90000 km2 of farmlands, etc - saying this just to illustrate how big, bad and long those "stuck" highs can be. Game-changer kind.
To everyone: before posting in a melting season topic, please be sure to know contents of this moderator's post: https://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php/topic,3017.msg261893.html#msg261893 . Thanks!

petm

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #4828 on: July 27, 2019, 11:52:06 PM »
I'll try cropping it first.
Thanks.

Voila! Side-by-side July 1-26, 5-day lagging median (left) vs. original (right).

Click to animate.

Shared Humanity

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #4829 on: July 27, 2019, 11:57:01 PM »
I'll try cropping it first.
Thanks.

Voila! Side-by-side July 1-26, 5-day lagging median (left) vs. original (right).

Click to animate.

Thank you. This is a keeper. Trying to figure out what it is telling me.

petm

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #4830 on: July 28, 2019, 12:00:15 AM »
Thank you. This is a keeper.
Welcome. Good suggestions. I'll use this format from now on.

To me it means: the median gives the trend and shows which parts of the original are more likely cloud artifacts (e.g. large purple flashes that look like clouds) and which may be real, short-term motion (e.g. near the melt edge, where the median looks blurred, such as NW Beaufort currently).
« Last Edit: July 28, 2019, 12:05:42 AM by petm »

Sterks

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #4831 on: July 28, 2019, 12:04:56 AM »
I'll try cropping it first.
Thanks.

Voila! Side-by-side July 1-26, 5-day lagging median (left) vs. original (right).

Click to animate.
This is really good. For long span of time (2 weeks or the whole season) the filtered one is so much clearer on what’s going on.
I would tag the 5-day median with the central date rather than with the final date though, but that’s debatable.

petm

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #4832 on: July 28, 2019, 12:08:26 AM »
I would tag the 5-day median with the central date rather than with the final date though, but that’s debatable.
I was thinking about that too, and even using the original image from t-2 days for the right side, but it might make it even more difficult to explain than it already is...

sark

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #4833 on: July 28, 2019, 01:05:11 AM »
Quote from: petm link=topic=2591
Voila! Side-by-side July 1-26, 5-day lagging median (left) vs. original (right).

Click to animate.

Wow, thank you.  Great product.
I am not a scientist

Frivolousz21

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #4834 on: July 28, 2019, 02:27:20 AM »
Greenland is about to get pounded.

Any upslope precip will be warm rain.

Nasty.

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #4835 on: July 28, 2019, 02:49:55 AM »
Greenland is about to get pounded.

Any upslope precip will be warm rain.

Nasty.

I think you are over reacting Friv 😝

slow wing

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #4836 on: July 28, 2019, 03:36:33 AM »
Slater's model seems to have settled on an early minimum near the end of August of approx. 4 million sq. km.
No. No. No. Those values for the end of August are historical, predicted exactly 50 days earlier in every case.

If you go to that website every day you will see that the curve remains the same. Every day it just gets a new 50-day prediction value added on at the end.

The Slater model's latest estimate of the actual minimum extent is not shown on that plot. Nor is its date. Presumably it's some time in September and is not much less than the 4.25 million square km value shown for 15 September - i.e. 50 days from now.

petm

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #4837 on: July 28, 2019, 03:43:40 AM »
Those values for the end of August are historical, predicted exactly 50 days earlier in every case.

I know but I don't agree with your interpretation. I'd be happy to discuss it here: https://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php/topic,1682.0.html .

petm

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #4838 on: July 28, 2019, 03:49:55 AM »
A notable divergence in Wipneus' area calculations between the slopes in area calculations using NSIDC (25 km) vs. both Jaxa (10 km) and UH (3 km) continues to increase. What does it signify? Wide scale dispersion? A difference in the sensors?

Killian

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #4839 on: July 28, 2019, 04:21:23 AM »
Appears that the Nares is sending ice south again

Responding bc I noticed this days ago, but your post implies it is very recent. Using the movie function via worldview, it seems the ice reversed back south roughly on the 15th.

FYI.

UCMiami

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #4840 on: July 28, 2019, 04:53:08 AM »
Interesting question petm.
I suspect it gets into a question of the size of ice flows in the dispersion areas and how close the measurements come to the 15% thresholds given the different gird size That the 25km NSIDC stands out compared to the 10km and 3km tracks suggests there is a large amount of well dispersed ice area that at 25km reads as under 15% but at 10km and 3km reads half the time as over 15% so adds 50% of the area as ice. If you think of cropping an image of 10% dispersed ice at the 25km size and then look at the same crop but divide into the 3km boxes and count the number of those with 20% ice you get at least some percentage of those 3km boxes that would be addition extent.

I think that visually it looks more unusual because 8 of the ten lines are UH measures and only one is the NSIDC which is so different. Finally I don't think it is that significant a difference and the last week appears to leading the NSIDC back towrd the other two.

Glen Koehler

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #4841 on: July 28, 2019, 05:06:20 AM »
Since it is time sensitive (i.e. going out of date as we speak), just a heads up for those who like numbers that I posted 2019 vs 2012 Extent, Area, Volume and Thickness values to most recent observation date over in the "2019 vs 2012" thread: 
https://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php/topic,2792.msg216777.html#msg216777

philopek

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #4842 on: July 28, 2019, 06:29:33 AM »
Greenland is about to get pounded.

Any upslope precip will be warm rain.

Nasty.

can't be that bad if you don't switch to CAPS, sorry for the little kidding, could not resist.

blumenkraft

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #4843 on: July 28, 2019, 07:26:29 AM »
Appears that the Nares is sending ice south again

Responding bc I noticed this days ago, but your post implies it is very recent. Using the movie function via worldview, it seems the ice reversed back south roughly on the 15th.

FYI.

FYI, this is BS.

The surface current in NS picked up 26.07.

oren

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #4844 on: July 28, 2019, 08:14:11 AM »
Is that you B_L? If that's so, I am happy you are back!

binntho

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #4845 on: July 28, 2019, 08:34:43 AM »
That crack north of Greenland just keeps growing and expanding. Click to animate (the strange colours are a result of aggressive optimization).
because a thing is eloquently expressed it should not be taken to be as necessarily true
St. Augustine, Confessions V, 6

blumenkraft

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #4846 on: July 28, 2019, 08:35:26 AM »
Is that you B_L? If that's so, I am happy you are back!

Yep, that's me. Not sure i'm fully back, but since Arsedolph Shittler isn't around anymore as it seems there is some space for me again i guess. ;)

Thanks, Oren! I'm glad you feel that way. :)

Sterks

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #4847 on: July 28, 2019, 09:41:52 AM »
A notable divergence in Wipneus' area calculations between the slopes in area calculations using NSIDC (25 km) vs. both Jaxa (10 km) and UH (3 km) continues to increase. What does it signify? Wide scale dispersion? A difference in the sensors?
When the pack has been dispersed, there are broken areas that the hi res don’t pick as low concentration ( as they are able to pick open water that the lo res thinks is lower concentration). So when it is compacted, hi res does not see local increase of concentration, lo res does,
Second, NSIDC is much more sensitive to melt ponds, and there was some refreeze over Beaufort and CAB.
So I think it signifies both indeed.

Sterks

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #4848 on: July 28, 2019, 09:44:23 AM »
Is that you B_L? If that's so, I am happy you are back!

Yep, that's me. Not sure i'm fully back, but since Arsedolph Shittler isn't around anymore as it seems there is some space for me again i guess. ;)

Thanks, Oren! I'm glad you feel that way. :)
Welcome back.

Rich

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #4849 on: July 28, 2019, 09:52:28 AM »
+1