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RoxTheGeologist

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #5600 on: August 13, 2019, 05:50:40 PM »

...
Here you are:
...

Thank you Espen! I didn't realize you read this part of the forum ...



RoxTheGeologist

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #5601 on: August 13, 2019, 06:06:22 PM »

It would be interesting to know how much ice the Barnes Ice Cap lost this yet. It seems to have been under blue sky for most of July and August.

A remnant of the last ice age. It will not survive to see the next.


Next ?


100,000 years from now

We are STILL in an ice age. What we are experiencing is the Earth's climate transitioning from a interglacial to a hothouse state. My guess is it'll take a few million years to switch back to icehouse. Go on; Prove me wrong.

bbr2314

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #5602 on: August 13, 2019, 06:09:55 PM »

It would be interesting to know how much ice the Barnes Ice Cap lost this yet. It seems to have been under blue sky for most of July and August.

A remnant of the last ice age. It will not survive to see the next.


Next ?


100,000 years from now

We are STILL in an ice age. What we are experiencing is the Earth's climate transitioning from a interglacial to a hothouse state. My guess is it'll take a few million years to switch back to icehouse. Go on; Prove me wrong.
I won't get into it extensively but IMO the snowfall data the past few years proves you are wrong and that as we speed into warming WHILE in an ice age the continental ice sheets will regenerate explosively quickly. At some point enough snow will fall in autumn, winter, and spring that summer will be substantially abbreviated and at that point it will be off to the races for Laurentide II.

Killian

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #5603 on: August 13, 2019, 06:12:45 PM »
2012 finally caught 2019 in the Charctic 5-day average extent.


NSIDC ASIE         NSIDC ASIE
5-D Avg            Daily Data
'12 - '19            '12 - '19
 (Negative # indicates '12 is lower.)

 0.093            -0.134
 0.014            -0.171
-0.016             0.025
-0.059            -0.092
-0.099            -0.125

philopek

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #5604 on: August 13, 2019, 06:13:01 PM »
bbr is wrong again:

What is an Ice Age?
These periods are characterized by the growth and expansion of ice sheets across the Earth’s surface, which occurs every few million years.

By definition we are still in the last great ice age – which began during the late Pliocene epoch (ca. 2.58 million years ago) – and are currently in an interglacial period, characterized by the retreat of glaciers.

While the term “ice age” is sometime used liberally to refer to cold periods in Earth’s history, this tends to belie the complexity of glacial periods.

Glaciologically, ice age is often used to mean a period of ice sheets in the northern and southern hemispheres; by this definition we are still in an ice age (because the Greenland and Antarctic ice sheets still exist).

We're in middle of an Ice Age

First of all, the long-term trend for planet Earth is a cooling one. If you remember your lessons from science classes, you will recall that the Earth started out as a molten ball and over hundreds of millions of years began to cool, eventually forming a mantle or crust and creating an atmosphere and the oceans. The volcanic activity that permeated the Earth has also diminished over time, reflective of a continuing cooling. It's not a diabolical plot, rather just what happens in the life of a solar system.

Secondly, we're currently in the middle of an Ice Age. The Earth has experienced five major ice ages and this one is called the Quaternary. It has been characterized by alternating periods of glaciation averaging 70,000-90,000 years and interglacial warming periods of 10,000-30,000 years.

There have been approximately a dozen epochs of glaciation interspersed with interglacials over the last million years. Our current interglacial, the Holocene epoch, began about 12,000 years ago. At the peak of the last glaciation, about 18,000 years ago, there were ice caps and glaciers over two miles high covering Detroit and much of North America, Europe, and the southern parts of South America and Africa.

binntho

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #5605 on: August 13, 2019, 06:23:44 PM »
All very true, but perhaps fit for another thread?

philopek

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #5606 on: August 13, 2019, 06:28:47 PM »
All very true, but perhaps fit for another thread?

Also true but i think the false information cannot simply let be and then until now nobody could show me a decent way how to correct such an obvious false information so that it won't spread to the general public via PM.

I think I expressed my opinion about this kind of OT that has not really good alternative and also that complaining about OT is as OT as the reason for the complaint was.

Let's leave it here because what follows an OT is often worse than the small OT itself.

I know it's not easy my friend, let's enjoy further ;)

Cheers

bbr2314

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #5607 on: August 13, 2019, 06:42:45 PM »
All very true, but perhaps fit for another thread?

Also true but i think the false information cannot simply let be and then until now nobody could show me a decent way how to correct such an obvious false information so that it won't spread to the general public via PM.

I think I expressed my opinion about this kind of OT that has not really good alternative and also that complaining about OT is as OT as the reason for the complaint was.

Let's leave it here because what follows an OT is often worse than the small OT itself.

I know it's not easy my friend, let's enjoy further ;)

Cheers
You are dragging this thread horribly off-topic. My information is not false. If you paid attention to the snow threads elsewhere on this forum you would see the state of the cryosphere and how snow mass is increasing dramatically. You are free to refute my notion of Laurentide II but you cannot prove it to be wrong, and dismissing / insulting me is basically what Bible-thumping Christians do when confronted about evolution.

oren

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #5608 on: August 13, 2019, 06:48:04 PM »
All  - respond to the ice age/Laurentide thing only in a different thread, not here.

Neven

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #5609 on: August 13, 2019, 07:31:39 PM »
All very true, but perhaps fit for another thread?

Also true but i think the false information cannot simply let be and then until now nobody could show me a decent way how to correct such an obvious false information so that it won't spread to the general public via PM.

Say the person is wrong and then invite him/her to the appropriate thread.
Il faut comparer, comparer, comparer, et cultiver notre jardin

petm

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #5610 on: August 13, 2019, 07:41:42 PM »
All very true, but perhaps fit for another thread?

Also true but i think the false information cannot simply let be and then until now nobody could show me a decent way how to correct such an obvious false information so that it won't spread to the general public via PM.

Say the person is wrong and then invite him/her to the appropriate thread.

I strongly disagree as well. We are not entering a new glacial period -- obviously the opposite. Please respond on this new thread, should you wish to respond:
https://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php/topic,2875.0.html
« Last Edit: August 13, 2019, 07:49:28 PM by petm »

Istari

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #5611 on: August 13, 2019, 08:20:04 PM »
Can somebody with better skills that I have with Sentinel, try to verify if we just lost a few Km
of glacierer here:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/yakmbopak5c0syj/Screenshot%202019-08-13%2020.16.01.png?dl=0

RoxTheGeologist

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #5612 on: August 13, 2019, 08:27:26 PM »

uniquorn

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #5613 on: August 13, 2019, 08:34:41 PM »
Ascat with NSIDC ice age overlaid at 20% transparent, mar21-aug12. Not the cleanest animation but here attempting to highlight Oren's comment about first year ice upthread.
The ice age product is weekly and has been duplicated so that the dates should match (edit: except for this week). When this week's ice age map is released I'll try an overlay with amsr2 which should be cleaner.
ice age colours are altered slightly by the transparency
« Last Edit: August 13, 2019, 09:14:29 PM by uniquorn »

UCMiami

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #5614 on: August 13, 2019, 08:36:23 PM »
Istari - I don't think you can quite depend on the WV coastline overlay - it is not exactly accurate and I am not sure how often it gets updated. It also appears that the various different angles at which the satellite pictures get taken can distort the images a bit compared to the overlays. I see errors in coastline definition when dealing with land, and the errors get worse when dealing with ice/glacier.

You would need a specific focus on an individual glacier to determine if this is a current event a overlay error, or something that happened in past months or years.

There may be thread on the Greenland forum that would address this specific glacier:
https://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php/board,12.0.html
or maybe here:
https://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php/board,14.0.html

Shared Humanity

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #5615 on: August 13, 2019, 08:40:10 PM »

It would be interesting to know how much ice the Barnes Ice Cap lost this yet. It seems to have been under blue sky for most of July and August.

A remnant of the last ice age. It will not survive to see the next.


Next ?


100,000 years from now

We are STILL in an ice age. What we are experiencing is the Earth's climate transitioning from a interglacial to a hothouse state. My guess is it'll take a few million years to switch back to icehouse. Go on; Prove me wrong.

Sorry...outside of my pay grade and off topic.

Shared Humanity

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #5616 on: August 13, 2019, 08:46:47 PM »
A remnant of the last ice age. It will not survive to see the next.


I feel as if I started this diversion with a sad goodbye to a lonely ice cap. Not my intent. Sorry guys.

FishOutofWater

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #5617 on: August 13, 2019, 09:02:44 PM »
They are both wrong.

And back to the point, we are in some control of where the climate heads although we cannot control the details and we are struggling to understand the complex interactions between the ocean, ice and atmosphere. It's shocking to me that the Arctic ocean is so thinly observed given its key role in earth's climate. The few buoys we have making observations of the upper ocean show heat at about 50m that the Mercator model is missing.

Careful observation of individual floes shows that A-Team is correct that the ice does not directly follow wind streamlines, sea surface height gradients or ocean currents. It is affected by all of them, plus it compresses and forms ridges. Below the surface, we have sparse measurements of the movements of water masses. We're still trying to untangle the effects of the GAC in 2012 on the sea ice because we have don't have dense enough data on Arctic ocean heat content changes through the melting season. And "we" includes the sea ice experts who don't do significantly better at predicting September extent than this ragged group of interested observers. For a variety of reasons, but mainly because we can't predict seasonal weather well, the expert's models don't work very well.

Ironic, isn't it that the one thing we do know pretty well, the effects of CO2 on paleoclimate, has been so poorly explained in this melting thread. Geothermal heat has an inconsequential effect on climate. https://skepticalscience.com/heatflow.html

Solar heat and all the factors that affect the earth's radiation balance control the climate. Greenhouse gases are among the most important controls and CO2 is the key gas over the past billion years. The modern climate is paradoxical because the sun was cooler in the precambrian than it is now. Of course, we know that declining CO2 levels over the past 25 million years led to the onset of the Pleistocene and the ice ages. Those declining CO2 levels we mostly caused by increased rock weathering rates associated with the continental collision of the Indian plate with the Eurasian plate.

So while we watch the impacts of unprecedented ocean temperatures in the far north Pacific and Atlantic oceans, and shockingly warm Arctic seas, on Arctic weather and sea ice, two proudly ignorant fools are clogging this thread with arguments that ignore the effects of CO2 on climate. Siberia is literally on fire, thunderstorms are approaching the north pole and the Arctic oscillation has been stuck in hot subsidence mode almost all summer and yet some folks here don't seem to get that rapidly increasing CO2 levels are the primary cause of all of it.

Click image to animate. The heat keeps on coming into the Eurasian side of the Arctic.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2019, 09:36:01 PM by FishOutofWater »

petm

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #5618 on: August 13, 2019, 09:38:26 PM »
They are both wrong.
You see, I asked to end it and with such a side note you make it impossible.

Please relocate this discussion here: https://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php/topic,2875.0.html

Thanks.

philopek

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #5619 on: August 13, 2019, 09:40:42 PM »
They are both wrong.
You see, I asked to end it and with such a side note you make it impossible.

Please relocate this discussion here: https://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php/topic,2875.0.html

Thanks.

OK will do, thanks for the link, deleted my post and reposted there.

kaixo

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #5620 on: August 13, 2019, 09:43:14 PM »
I've been following this forum for many years now, content with a daily intake of the latest data and all the different opinions and views regarding them. As i read an article of the dutch metereological society today, i thought this might interest some of you. I guess this is not the right thread for it but i couldn't find a better place. Please feel free to move it to a more appropriate thread.
According to research by the dutch KNMI and the university of Exeter (published in Nature Climate Change), reduced sea ice extent does not lead to cold continents at moderate latitudes, the so called warm arctic cold continents theory or WACC.
Instead it is a fluctuation in atmosferic circulation wich causes simultaneously the decrease in sea ice and cold waves at lower latitudes (Northern America). They tested the WACC theory by using 2000 years of climate data. They divided winters in two groups: one in which the atmosphere clearly drives sea ice behaviour and another group where sea ice forces atmospheric circulation. It was shown that only the first group results in the WACC pattern and they conclude that a lack of sea ice does not cause cold waves in Northern America. A further model simulation showed that further reduction of arctic sea ice will lead to higher arctic temperatures but not invoke the WACC pattern and thus will not lead to more cold spells at lower latitudes. For the article at the website of the KNMI (in dutch, but there is always Google translate, and with some figures illustrating things) see:
https://www.knmi.nl/over-het-knmi/nieuws/meer-koudegolven-door-klimaatverandering/
Greetz



petm

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #5621 on: August 13, 2019, 09:52:51 PM »
According to research by the dutch KNMI and the university of Exeter (published in Nature Climate Change), reduced sea ice extent does not lead to cold continents at moderate latitudes, the so called warm arctic cold continents theory or WACC. Instead it is a fluctuation in atmosferic circulation wich causes simultaneously the decrease in sea ice and cold waves at lower latitudes (Northern America).

Good find. Important article. It has been discussed a little here: https://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php/topic,596.msg221383.html#msg221383

Freegrass

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #5622 on: August 13, 2019, 10:25:52 PM »
The five day forecast is a big smile.  ;D
The Existential Climate Crisis Is Upon Us

DrTskoul

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #5623 on: August 13, 2019, 10:28:22 PM »
According to research by the dutch KNMI and the university of Exeter (published in Nature Climate Change), reduced sea ice extent does not lead to cold continents at moderate latitudes, the so called warm arctic cold continents theory or WACC. Instead it is a fluctuation in atmosferic circulation wich causes simultaneously the decrease in sea ice and cold waves at lower latitudes (Northern America).

Good find. Important article. It has been discussed a little here: https://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php/topic,596.msg221383.html#msg221383

One less chicken one more egg??

Greenbelt

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #5624 on: August 13, 2019, 10:34:09 PM »
I've been somewhat hesitant to post about the weather forecast, but this week's forecast is too interesting to ignore. For about a week now, the models have been predicting a big surface high over the East Siberian sea, with surface low pressure around the Atlantic ice front/Barents and moderately low pressure as well around the eastern Alaskan coast toward the Beaufort sea. For example compare today's ECMWF initialization shown below with that of seven days ago, and you can see that last week's forecast for today verified quite closely: https://tropicaltidbits.com/analysis/models/?model=ecmwf&region=nhem&pkg=z500_mslp&runtime=2019080612&fh=168

What is interesting to me is that the op EC model keeps today's pattern roughly in place for the next week. The GFS and Canadian also support that idea, with the ESS high arcing gradually toward the Alaskan coast and the Atlantic side low drifting over the central ice.  Regardless of the nuances, the Siberian coast heat wave and the consistent southerly winds from the Laptev sea area should test Friv's hypothesis.  Friv had suggested up thread that the ESS didn't melt out early enough this year to allow the open water to warm enough that it could really attack the CAB ice late in the season.  That seemed reasonable at the time, but this extended warm period along Siberia, and the extended periods of southerly winds from Asia toward the pole makes it interesting. I wonder if there is still enough sun power to really heat that newly open water along the ESS and Laptev, and if the fetch of southerly wind would be enough to transport some of that warmth toward the central ice over the next week or two?

uniquorn

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #5625 on: August 14, 2019, 12:47:42 AM »
windy ecmwf wam for chukchi today

Shared Humanity

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #5626 on: August 14, 2019, 01:22:22 AM »
I guess this is not the right thread for it but i couldn't find a better place.


There are just shy of 2000 topics on this site. Have to believe there is a perfect topic out there for this.

slow wing

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #5627 on: August 14, 2019, 01:49:26 AM »
Ascat with NSIDC ice age overlaid at 20% transparent, mar21-aug12.
Thanks for your great animations, Uniquorn. Really interesting to see this one and it shows that some of the outlying ice has a multi-year component.

oren

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #5628 on: August 14, 2019, 03:20:53 AM »
Ascat with NSIDC ice age overlaid at 20% transparent, mar21-aug12. Not the cleanest animation but here attempting to highlight Oren's comment about first year ice upthread.
The ice age product is weekly and has been duplicated so that the dates should match (edit: except for this week). When this week's ice age map is released I'll try an overlay with amsr2 which should be cleaner.
ice age colours are altered slightly by the transparency
If anyone should study just one animation this season, let it be this one by uniquorn. The ice age correlates well with Ascat, and is distributed in a very lopsided manner around the Arctic.
It's mid-August and the season is getting long in the tooth, but I think the ice "above" the Pole is still vulnerable, being First Year Ice, and quite rubbly. It's hard to know how much top and bottom melt has already occurred, but some of this ice could be nearing a threshold. We will know soon enough.

marcel_g

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #5629 on: August 14, 2019, 03:48:04 AM »
I've been somewhat hesitant to post about the weather forecast, but this week's forecast is too interesting to ignore.
... That seemed reasonable at the time, but this extended warm period along Siberia, and the extended periods of southerly winds from Asia toward the pole makes it interesting. I wonder if there is still enough sun power to really heat that newly open water along the ESS and Laptev, and if the fetch of southerly wind would be enough to transport some of that warmth toward the central ice over the next week or two?


Yes, I have also been wondering if that extended pulse of warmth, wind, and precipitable water that's starting in Russia and carries over the Laptev into the central pack will have a significant effect on the ice in that area. Will there be a late forming Laptev bite?

petm

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #5630 on: August 14, 2019, 05:34:20 AM »
Aug 7 - 13; 5-day min; click.

marcel_g

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #5631 on: August 14, 2019, 06:04:30 AM »
I've been somewhat hesitant to post about the weather forecast, but this week's forecast is too interesting to ignore.
... That seemed reasonable at the time, but this extended warm period along Siberia, and the extended periods of southerly winds from Asia toward the pole makes it interesting. I wonder if there is still enough sun power to really heat that newly open water along the ESS and Laptev, and if the fetch of southerly wind would be enough to transport some of that warmth toward the central ice over the next week or two?



Yes, I have also been wondering if that extended pulse of warmth, wind, and precipitable water that's starting in Russia and carries over the Laptev into the central pack will have a significant effect on the ice in that area. Will there be a late forming Laptev bite?

Hmm, I just looked at climate reanalyzer again, and the forecast has changed, so it's no longer that much warmth and precipitable water being pushed over the ice. So the question's answer is basically no.

There are some low pressure systems entering the arctic though, so the wind looks to be picking up, and it'll be interesting to see how vulnerable the ice edge is at this stage, whether it melts back significantly or not.

On D7-8 (I know too far to be reliable) it looks like a low pressure travels across the arctic and parks itself over the pacific side. It has wind fields, maybe not storm level (I'm not a meteorologist) but they look significant. Also interesting to see what this does to the ice.


Michael Hauber

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #5632 on: August 14, 2019, 06:25:25 AM »
Not sure I've ever seen +4 temps at 850hp reach all the way to the North Pole.



For a fun comparison the current 850hp temp where I live in the subtropics is about +6, and forecast top temperature at surface level is 21 C.
Climate change:  Prepare for the worst, hope for the best, expect the middle.

Aluminium

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #5633 on: August 14, 2019, 09:19:13 AM »
August 9-13.

2018.

bbr2314

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #5634 on: August 14, 2019, 09:27:06 AM »
EOSDIS confirms that the ESS front has exploded, and that clouds were artificially inflating concentration on Bremen etc. Today's image is.... very bad.

AmbiValent

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #5635 on: August 14, 2019, 09:40:55 AM »
Any idea why developments in NSIDC extent and JAXA extent have been diverging this week?
Bright ice, how can you crack and fail? How can the ice that seemed so mighty suddenly seem so frail?

sailor

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #5636 on: August 14, 2019, 09:59:02 AM »
Yes the entire edge is getting a hit, with strong drift at the ESS corner. petm minimum- animation is quite clear.
Winds and waves, winds and waves...
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Aleph_Null

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #5637 on: August 14, 2019, 10:47:04 AM »
Winds and waves, winds and waves...

Since someone noticed CAA breakage during the last full moon, I've been wondering about tomorrow. (Beware the ides of August?)
« Last Edit: August 14, 2019, 10:53:25 AM by Aleph_Null »

oren

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #5638 on: August 14, 2019, 10:49:55 AM »
Broad ice movement is back, as can be seen in petm's and Aluminium's animations.
Osi-Saf agrees. Should this movement towards the Fram be sustained, CAB volume could take another hit, with thick ice exiting and thin ice entering from the Laptev.

iceman

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #5639 on: August 14, 2019, 11:26:20 AM »
Ascat with NSIDC ice age overlaid at 20% transparent, mar21-aug12.
Thanks for your great animations, Uniquorn. Really interesting to see this one and it shows that some of the outlying ice has a multi-year component.
If anyone should study just one animation this season, let it be this one by uniquorn.
   ....

Yes, quite illuminating. Among many other things, it shows that the replenishment of Beaufort from the CAB, which looks good on area/extent maps, is bad for volume - and for the longevity of the main pack.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2019, 11:11:08 AM by iceman »

Paddy

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #5640 on: August 14, 2019, 11:27:15 AM »
At the current rate in progress, we look to be only about a week away from 2019 overtaking 2018's minimum extent...

Rich

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #5641 on: August 14, 2019, 11:41:05 AM »
Wind is basically going bonkers at the moment.

45 knots off the NE coast of Greenland into Fram. 20 knots from the Kara straight into the CAB and noticably moving the ice edge.

charles_oil

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #5642 on: August 14, 2019, 12:50:43 PM »
petm    link=topic=2591.msg221918#msg221918 date=1565753660
Aug 7 - 13; 5-day min; click.



What years is this showing ??  Thanks

Shared Humanity

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #5643 on: August 14, 2019, 01:46:49 PM »
Aug 7 - 13; 5-day min; click.

Still visible transport into the Beaufort in that animation.

aslan

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #5644 on: August 14, 2019, 02:04:57 PM »
Wind is basically going bonkers at the moment.

45 knots off the NE coast of Greenland into Fram. 20 knots from the Kara straight into the CAB and noticably moving the ice edge.

Same in Beaufort with 20 - 30 kts of easterly winds now. Ship NWS003 measured 51 km/h but not sure of the configuration of the anemometer and ASCAT is quite explicit. Wind speed is not extremely high but occuring over a wide swath around the high. Also models have been a notch too low for wind speed. The vertical profile is of course helping, with the lack of strong near surface inversion, but it is still interesting to see models not fully bringing winds to surface.

Juan C. García

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #5645 on: August 14, 2019, 02:46:39 PM »
Not sure I've ever seen +4 temps at 850hp reach all the way to the North Pole.

For a fun comparison the current 850hp temp where I live in the subtropics is about +6, and forecast top temperature at surface level is 21 C.
It is an interesting band of heat, coming from Siberia and crossing the North Pole.
https://earth.nullschool.net/#2019/08/14/1200Z/wind/isobaric/850hPa/overlay=temp/orthographic=-67.66,95.15,601/loc=-166.172,89.711
Which is the best answer to Sep-2012 ASI lost (compared to 1979-2000)?
50% [NSIDC Extent] or
73% [PIOMAS Volume]

Volume is harder to measure than extent, but 3-dimensional space is real, 2D's hide ~50% thickness gone.
-> IPCC/NSIDC trends [based on extent] underestimate the real speed of ASI lost.

Thomas Barlow

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #5646 on: August 14, 2019, 03:20:51 PM »

FrostKing70

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #5647 on: August 14, 2019, 03:23:12 PM »
Any storms / deep low pressure systems in the forecast for the second half of the month?

petm

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #5648 on: August 14, 2019, 03:26:38 PM »
Aug 7 - 13; 5-day min; click.
What years is this showing ??  Thanks

They are both this year. The one on the left is the lagging 5-day minimum value for each pixel. The one on the right is the original from Bremen.

petm

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #5649 on: August 14, 2019, 03:32:36 PM »
Could go to 2nd lowest on record?

I think at least 2nd in extent is almost clinched now, unless perhaps there is a dispersive pattern at the last moment.