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Stephan

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #250 on: March 31, 2019, 09:24:06 PM »
You may need to do a little math of your own though, but you should come to the same conclusions.

Strangely enough I've done a bit of maths (as we call the subject here in the once Great Britain), and a fair bit of programming too.

Perhaps you wouldn't mind enlightening me further concerning how you came to your particular conclusions? Methodology as well as raw data would be helpful, for example.

The raw data is in the previous link.  I have plotted at the recent melt compared to the annual maximum, minimum, previous season ice growth, and change in ice maximum from the previous season.  No correlation exists in any of the comparisons.  Early season melt is no indication of what is to come later in the season.

Please refer to my posting last year where I plotted the average monthly losses vs. the JAXA minimum and found almost no correlation (the best with R² = 0.79 is valid for July; but July is the month with the biggest losses...)
https://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php/topic,2285.msg157248.html#msg157248

HapHazard

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #251 on: March 31, 2019, 09:36:49 PM »
Interesting times. I'm actually starting to feel a bit anxious, and it's much too early in the melt season for that.

Tor Bejnar

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #252 on: March 31, 2019, 10:31:22 PM »
Thanks, Stephan (2 posts up), for putting a link to my "vague recollection"! Your post being only 10 months ago shows why 'recollection' is not a good substitute for posted analyses, so I also appreciate Jim Hunt for asking!
Arctic ice is healthy for children and other living things.

Jim Hunt

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #253 on: March 31, 2019, 11:40:00 PM »
Please refer to my posting last year

Thanks Stephan. Note that I don't doubt that "weather" will have a big influence on the 2019 minimum. Particularly the advent of melt ponds.

However as Tor points out, I too am a fan of "posted analyses" rather than unsupported "hearsay".
Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one - Albert Einstein

Thomas Barlow

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #254 on: March 31, 2019, 11:49:57 PM »
Pretty bad turn of events in just a week.
Showing this year and previous lower years for this day.
Not much in it at this point.

http://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/charctic-interactive-sea-ice-graph/

Killian

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #255 on: April 01, 2019, 10:32:57 AM »
I, for one, will be keeping a very close eye on the Kara and Laptev as I am developing a persistent concern about the Atlantification of the Arctic.
Recent area loss in the Kara and Laptev looks like more than the March wobbles up and down.
Over the next 3 days it looks like there will be an extra strong pulse of warmth from the south in the region.

Overall, the loss from March 12 to 31 appears, after using the JAXA interactive graph, to be the fastest loss for that period (or 15 to 31, slightly higher, if you prefer) on record. Likely nothing, but that's a lot of melt for March. It's also record lows for the 29th ~ 31st, and likely to continue to be for a few days given the flatness of the curves above it, the rate of decline, the warming of the Arctic in recent days and the approaching negative AO, which should bring in some warmer air.

Meaningful? Who knows. Early July is about the soonest one can get a very slightly solid sense of where things are headed. At least, imo.

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Gray-Wolf

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #256 on: April 01, 2019, 11:42:17 AM »
The Atlantification/Pacification of the basin is a growing thing not a seasonal intrusion. Once the Halocline is either flooded over or mixed out it'll take a nice age to rebuild the depth we had as recently as the noughties?

The loss of that layer allows a very different ocean , and processes ,to evolve in line with all the other Oceans of the World.

My concern is , like so much else in nature, it is not a straight line graph of change but one with very rapid periods of alteration?

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meddoc

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #257 on: April 01, 2019, 12:45:27 PM »
I made the Graph Extension for SIE Minimum as of 2019.03.30 extended by 2012 Melting Pattern.
This would take us at about 2 M km2. Could be even worse than that Curve, given recent Cliffs.

PS: Needs to be viewed in Full Size to see 2019 orange curve at 2019.03.30.

uniquorn

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #258 on: April 01, 2019, 01:18:56 PM »
From the data thread:
The weather is going to shift to deep lows in the Labrador sea over the next week. That's going to increase ice export and fresh water out of the Labrador sea and increase deep water formation where the cold air blasts off of eastern Canada onto the shelf edge. The coming weather will speed up ice loss in the Labrador and Greenland seas.
amsr2-uhh, baffin/labrador mar1-31

oren

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #259 on: April 01, 2019, 02:21:37 PM »
I made the Graph Extension for SIE Minimum as of 2019.03.30 extended by 2012 Melting Pattern.
This would take us at about 2 M km2. Could be even worse than that Curve, given recent Cliffs.

PS: Needs to be viewed in Full Size to see 2019 orange curve at 2019.03.30.
It's very difficult to replicate the 2012 loss without the high SIE it started with, especially in the Bering.
Not saying it couldn't happen but the extrapolation ia not entirely valid.

Klondike Kat

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #260 on: April 01, 2019, 02:37:28 PM »
Current NSIDC ice loss from maximum is fourth highest (after 79, 90, and 88).  None of those years were particularly excessive when it came to either minimum extent or total ice loss.  Conversely, 2012, which had the greatest seasonal ice loss, had very little loss through the month of March.  Interestingly, 1999 had no ice loss through March, as the maximum occurred on March 31.  Drawing any seasonal conclusion from early season ice loss seems foolish.


sark

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #261 on: April 01, 2019, 03:00:50 PM »
Virtually the entire air column is flowing from the east over the Bering Sea.  Back across the dateline.  From about 1000mb to 70mb.
I am not a scientist

Thomas Barlow

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #262 on: April 01, 2019, 03:37:11 PM »

jdallen

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #263 on: April 01, 2019, 04:53:58 PM »
I made the Graph Extension for SIE Minimum as of 2019.03.30 extended by 2012 Melting Pattern.
This would take us at about 2 M km2. Could be even worse than that Curve, given recent Cliffs.

PS: Needs to be viewed in Full Size to see 2019 orange curve at 2019.03.30.
e
It's very difficult to replicate the 2012 loss without the high SIE it started with, especially in the Bering.
Not saying it couldn't happen but the extrapolation ia not entirely valid.
Valid.

The volatility of extent makes it difficult to compare specific years. I think we'd be better off examining 2012 volume loss and attempt to extrapolate extent from that based on estimations of average thickness.
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oren

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #264 on: April 01, 2019, 06:20:10 PM »
Drawing any seasonal conclusion from early season ice loss seems foolish.
On the other hand, completely ignoring early season losses on the grounds of low correlation may not be so wise, especially when said early losses take the ice into record territory. It does not necessarily mean the melting season will be exceptional, but it does increase the risk.

Klondike Kat

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #265 on: April 01, 2019, 06:30:41 PM »
Drawing any seasonal conclusion from early season ice loss seems foolish.
On the other hand, completely ignoring early season losses on the grounds of low correlation may not be so wise, especially when said early losses take the ice into record territory. It does not necessarily mean the melting season will be exceptional, but it does increase the risk.

That is true.  On the other hand, it may just mean ice that would melt regardless has melted earlier than expected.  Baring any exceptional summer weather (a la 2012), this may just even out in the coming months (like 2002).  We shall see.

Archimid

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #266 on: April 01, 2019, 06:59:56 PM »
Early melt has so far not been indicative of the magnitude of the losses during the melting season, however an exceptionally bad melting season is made worse by a bad start. I much rather start the season with the highest extent and volume possible.
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uniquorn

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #267 on: April 01, 2019, 09:41:41 PM »
We wouldn't be on this thread if changing one variable could reliably forecast minimum extent ;)
Amongst many other variables, early extent loss allows rougher sea conditions which affect mixing, probably leading to higher surface salinity (or closer to surface) and surface temperature in immediate and adjoining areas, depending on other variables (currents, wind....). Obvious examples are Bering/Chukchi and Barentsz/Laptev/CAB
edit: Agree with Gray-Wolf above - likely to alter the halocline at some point. It's only 30m deep.
Mercator(model) salinity 0m, feb1-mar31  http://bulletin.mercator-ocean.fr/
forgot scale.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2019, 09:56:56 PM by uniquorn »

rboyd

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #268 on: April 01, 2019, 10:44:47 PM »
Trying to short-term predict a complex chaotic system like the Arctic is a mugs game. We know that the heat imbalance is rising, and we know that there are a lot of possible "cliffs" for values to fall down, but we also know that there are some short-term negative feedbacks and sheer randomness that mess with the predictions. The trend is there, but also a lot of noise. Then, in addition we have outside influences such as the ENSO.

At some point the Arctic sea ice will go "poof", probably quite soon given the trends, and once it goes poof there is a high probability that it will stay poofed given the probable feedbacks that will be triggered. We may all then be very much f**d, so I am personally hoping for (not predicting) a slow move to the poof event.


magnamentis

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #269 on: April 01, 2019, 11:15:55 PM »
Early melt has so far not been indicative of the magnitude of the losses during the melting season, however an exceptionally bad melting season is made worse by a bad start. I much rather start the season with the highest extent and volume possible.

it will happen once we shall see a sunny spring/summer where the reduced albedo will have a max possible impact. until now we were just dodging the canon ball because summers were misty, foggy, cloudy or all of them.

whatever we think, weather will make the difference while once already low in spring and the waters around taking in heat/insolation in the periphery is already not negligible, it will look a bit or a lot different and winds are also easier to  build up once a lot of warm water surrounds the remaing around 0C area.

FishOutofWater

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #270 on: April 02, 2019, 12:25:33 AM »
Sea surface height maps are affected by differences in air pressure but there's consistent evidence that the volume of fresh water in the Beaufort high's fresh water dome has declined while salt water has flowed into the Siberian side of the Arctic, increasing the salinity of the Atlantic layer and the intrusion of salty water at 30m to 300m along the Siberian shelf edge.

We haven't merely been having warm weather in the Arctic. Winds have favored the influx of Atlantic and Pacific waters and the outflow of ice and fresh water through the Fram and Nares straits.



This is an extraordinarily bad start to the melting season. Maybe the weather will give the ice a break come June and July, but so far the models are predicting a stronger than normal peak melt season. Let's hope that they are wrong, but based on the present SST and atmospheric circulation patterns, the model forecasts appear to make good sense to me. Early warmth and albedo loss will tend to continue into the summer months because albedo loss is like a negative snowball for Arctic heat.

jdallen

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #271 on: April 02, 2019, 12:41:41 AM »
Sea surface height maps are affected by differences in air pressure but there's consistent evidence that the volume of fresh water in the Beaufort high's fresh water dome has declined while salt water has flowed into the Siberian side of the Arctic, increasing the salinity of the Atlantic layer and the intrusion of salty water at 30m to 300m along the Siberian shelf edge.

We haven't merely been having warm weather in the Arctic. Winds have favored the influx of Atlantic and Pacific waters and the outflow of ice and fresh water through the Fram and Nares straits.

This is an extraordinarily bad start to the melting season. Maybe the weather will give the ice a break come June and July, but so far the models are predicting a stronger than normal peak melt season. Let's hope that they are wrong, but based on the present SST and atmospheric circulation patterns, the model forecasts appear to make good sense to me. Early warmth and albedo loss will tend to continue into the summer months because albedo loss is like a negative snowball for Arctic heat.
That drop in albedo concerns me as well.  Where you have open water you don't need melt ponds.

Also of concern, that open water and warmer peripheral temperatures means moisture is dropping out over the central seas rather than the periphery, along with its charge of heat.

I'm in full agreement with FooW;  if we don't get a cool down or extensive spring cloudiness,this season has a good chance of smashing 2012.
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GoSouthYoungins

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #272 on: April 02, 2019, 02:12:56 AM »
Trying to short-term predict a complex chaotic system like the Arctic is a mugs game.

I propose to rename ASIF "Mugs Musings".
big time oops

Aluminium

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #273 on: April 02, 2019, 07:14:25 AM »
March 27 - April 1.

Rodius

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #274 on: April 02, 2019, 08:08:16 AM »
Is that super long crack along the Russian border weird?

jdallen

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #275 on: April 02, 2019, 08:34:26 AM »
Is that super long crack along the Russian border weird?
Nope.

It generally follows the transition from near-shore "fast" ice to ice over deeper waters, that is more subject to wind and current.
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Rodius

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #276 on: April 02, 2019, 08:42:31 AM »
Is that super long crack along the Russian border weird?
Nope.

It generally follows the transition from near-shore "fast" ice to ice over deeper waters, that is more subject to wind and current.

Thanks

jdallen

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #277 on: April 02, 2019, 08:43:46 AM »
Spent a couple of hours fruitlessly tinkering with CAPIE and average thickness, trying to see if anything interesting turned up.

Mostly not, and not really worth posting charts.  The TL;DR is, the end of season thickness has remained relatively constant for most of the last 15 years, dropping slightly on average to about 1.75M.

The "start of season" average thickness has dropped pretty dramatically, now at around 3-3.5M

Neither of these unfortunately tell us much of anything except they are derivative of changes in area and volume, for which they are the ratio, and in spite of widely changing ranges of area, have stayed pretty surprisingly constant - +/- about .25M - over the last 10-15 years.

My take away is that average thickness will probably remain pretty much the same at the end of season until we blow out completely (as in sub 1,000,000KM2).  But then, oddly, the average thickness at end of season may go UP, as a higher proportion of the surviving ice may consist of stuff calving off of glaciers in the CAA and Greenland.
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Jim Hunt

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #278 on: April 02, 2019, 12:09:26 PM »
A slight "rebound" in high resolution AMSR2 area, with extent flatlining for the last couple of days:

http://GreatWhiteCon.info/2019/04/facts-about-the-arctic-in-april-2019/
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uniquorn

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #279 on: April 02, 2019, 12:25:52 PM »
amsr2-uhh, atlantic side, mar1-apr1.

Thomas Barlow

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #280 on: April 02, 2019, 02:01:31 PM »
Yep. It was never great, but I really was not expecting that drop over a week or so.

Showing last decade. Current 2019 in orange (lowest extent for this date)
http://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/charctic-interactive-sea-ice-graph/

Paladiea

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #281 on: April 02, 2019, 02:28:33 PM »
Drawing any seasonal conclusion from early season ice loss seems foolish.
On the other hand, completely ignoring early season losses on the grounds of low correlation may not be so wise, especially when said early losses take the ice into record territory. It does not necessarily mean the melting season will be exceptional, but it does increase the risk.

That is true.  On the other hand, it may just mean ice that would melt regardless has melted earlier than expected.  Baring any exceptional summer weather (a la 2012), this may just even out in the coming months (like 2002).  We shall see.

I think you're missing something important in your analysis, and that is the fact that ice isn't 2 dimensional, but 3.

Ice volume is also very important in how resistant it is to melt, and correlating extent and area to melt isn't going to hold on for much longer if it held up at all.
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Klondike Kat

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #282 on: April 02, 2019, 03:30:19 PM »
Drawing any seasonal conclusion from early season ice loss seems foolish.
On the other hand, completely ignoring early season losses on the grounds of low correlation may not be so wise, especially when said early losses take the ice into record territory. It does not necessarily mean the melting season will be exceptional, but it does increase the risk.

That is true.  On the other hand, it may just mean ice that would melt regardless has melted earlier than expected.  Baring any exceptional summer weather (a la 2012), this may just even out in the coming months (like 2002).  We shall see.

I think you're missing something important in your analysis, and that is the fact that ice isn't 2 dimensional, but 3.

Ice volume is also very important in how resistant it is to melt, and correlating extent and area to melt isn't going to hold on for much longer if it held up at all.

Yes, but that third dimension, thickness, is several orders of magnitude smaller than the other two.  Hence, the third dimension forces have much less influence on the total makeup than the other two. 

FishOutofWater

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #283 on: April 02, 2019, 04:12:52 PM »
Uniquorn's animation of the Kara sea ice shows that Atlantic water is flowing into the Barents sea (and mixing with Siberian river water) then flowing into the Kara sea. The ice in the Kara sea looks very thin and is likely to melt out very early this year.

The distribution of thick ice is very unfortunate this early spring. The average thickness this year may be similar to what it has been for the past decade but the thick ice is piled up at the Arctic's exit doors. At the same time, warm and salty water is flowing in through the entrances. The Bering strait water has no heat content yet, but the break up of ice along the Alaskan shores of the Bering sea came several months early this year. It's possible that we could see the advection of heat in water flowing through the Bering strait this summer. This story of a man floating out to sea personalizes just how crazy this spring has been in Alaska.

https://www.adn.com/alaska-news/rural-alaska/2019/03/14/man-rescued-from-ice-drifting-in-bering-sea-describes-hours-jumping-from-floe-to-floe/



So Rode and two other Nome men, 43-year-old John Culp Jr. and 33-year-old James Gibson, went out on the ice to move the equipment. They’d dug out a skiff out of snowdrifts and were going to use it to load some of the gear in to using leads, patches of open water between sheets of ice, to ferry it back to shore.

The open water alone was bizarre, said Rode: Usually the ice off Nome is solid until early May. People crab and dredge for gold through the ice.

“We never have open water this time of year,” he said. “Usually the ice is 8 feet thick. This year it was only a couple feet thick, not even frozen very hard. It’s bizarre.”

uniquorn

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #284 on: April 02, 2019, 04:51:11 PM »
Winds have favored the influx of Atlantic and Pacific waters and the outflow of ice and fresh water through the Fram and Nares straits <snips>
I'm not sure if it's wind or ssh driven but all three of the northernmost whoi ITP buoys are moving north east against the annual ice drift. http://www.whoi.edu/page.do?pid=163456

Ktb

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #285 on: April 02, 2019, 08:48:16 PM »
Slater projection has been stalled out for past several days. 50 day lead time now just 39 days.

http://cires1.colorado.edu/~aslater/SEAICE/


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Jim Hunt

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #286 on: April 02, 2019, 09:43:42 PM »
The ice in the Kara sea looks very thin and is likely to melt out very early this year.

The current merged CryoSat-2/SMOS sea ice thickness for the Northern Sea Route:

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epiphyte

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #287 on: April 02, 2019, 09:54:09 PM »

Yes, but that third dimension, thickness, is several orders of magnitude smaller than the other two.  Hence, the third dimension forces have much less influence on the total makeup than the other two.

By that logic, a helium balloon, a pressure cooker, and a nuclear reactor containment vessel are all essentially similar, so they must be functionally interchangeable.

Pavel

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #288 on: April 02, 2019, 11:27:26 PM »
The warm anomalies have extended to the north of 80 latitude but it still very far from melting in the high Arctic

Juan C. García

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #289 on: April 02, 2019, 11:45:38 PM »
Yes, but that third dimension, thickness, is several orders of magnitude smaller than the other two.  Hence, the third dimension forces have much less influence on the total makeup than the other two.

If this third dimension "is several orders of magnitude smaller than the other two", could be the first one in disappearing. But if this dimension disappears: ¿what will happen to the other two?
Which is the best answer to Sep-2012 ASI lost (compared to 1979-2000)?
50% [NSIDC Extent] or
73% [PIOMAS Volume]

Volume is harder to measure than extent, but 3-dimensional space is real, 2D's hide ~50% thickness gone.
-> IPCC/NSIDC trends [based on extent] underestimate the real speed of ASI lost.

Klondike Kat

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #290 on: April 02, 2019, 11:52:16 PM »
Yes, but that third dimension, thickness, is several orders of magnitude smaller than the other two.  Hence, the third dimension forces have much less influence on the total makeup than the other two.

If this third dimension "is several orders of magnitude smaller than the other two", could be the first one in disappearing. But if this dimension disappears: ¿what will happen to the other two?

Funny, but irrelevant to the discussion at hand.

Viggy

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #291 on: April 03, 2019, 12:11:32 AM »
Yes, but that third dimension, thickness, is several orders of magnitude smaller than the other two.  Hence, the third dimension forces have much less influence on the total makeup than the other two.

If this third dimension "is several orders of magnitude smaller than the other two", could be the first one in disappearing. But if this dimension disappears: ¿what will happen to the other two?

Funny, but irrelevant to the discussion at hand.

Why would the 3rd dimension in a 3 dimensional product (i.e. sea ice) be irrelevant?

Doesn't extent only go to 0 when that 3rd dimension goes to 0?

uniquorn

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #292 on: April 03, 2019, 12:40:41 AM »
Update on utqiagvik as seen by ascat. Chukchi sea and the Alaskan coast having quite a hard time of it.
ascat feb15-apr1, 7days/sec
edit:day labelling corrected
« Last Edit: April 03, 2019, 12:51:49 AM by uniquorn »

epiphyte

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #293 on: April 03, 2019, 02:59:18 AM »
Yes, but that third dimension, thickness, is several orders of magnitude smaller than the other two.  Hence, the third dimension forces have much less influence on the total makeup than the other two.

If this third dimension "is several orders of magnitude smaller than the other two", could be the first one in disappearing. But if this dimension disappears: ¿what will happen to the other two?

Funny, but irrelevant to the discussion at hand.

Why would the 3rd dimension in a 3 dimensional product (i.e. sea ice) be irrelevant?

Doesn't extent only go to 0 when that 3rd dimension goes to 0?

Quite. The area can only even be _defined_ in terms of the question, "where is the thickness not zero?"

...which ironically makes the 3rd dimension the _only_ one that's relevant.

 

Klondike Kat

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #294 on: April 03, 2019, 03:16:51 AM »
Yes, but that third dimension, thickness, is several orders of magnitude smaller than the other two.  Hence, the third dimension forces have much less influence on the total makeup than the other two.

If this third dimension "is several orders of magnitude smaller than the other two", could be the first one in disappearing. But if this dimension disappears: ¿what will happen to the other two?

Funny, but irrelevant to the discussion at hand.

Why would the 3rd dimension in a 3 dimensional product (i.e. sea ice) be irrelevant?

Doesn't extent only go to 0 when that 3rd dimension goes to 0?

Conversely, the third dimension cannot go to 0, without the extent going to 0.  The extent will change based on the dimension which has the greatest influence.  The factors influencing thickness, like wave action, are small compared to those acting on the overall area, sunlight and seawater.  Thickness changes does not drive the sea ice, rather they occur through these other factors.

Archimid

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #295 on: April 03, 2019, 03:59:24 AM »
The factors influencing thickness, like wave action, are small compared to those acting on the overall area, sunlight and seawater.  Thickness changes does not drive the sea ice, rather they occur through these other factors.

Processes controlling surface, bottom and lateral melt of Arctic sea ice in a state of the art sea ice model

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/281622252_Processes_controlling_surface_bottom_and_lateral_melt_of_Arctic_sea_ice_in_a_state_of_the_art_sea_ice_model

Relevant graph from the article attached.

I am an energy reservoir seemingly intent on lowering entropy for self preservation.

Klondike Kat

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #296 on: April 03, 2019, 04:27:40 AM »
The factors influencing thickness, like wave action, are small compared to those acting on the overall area, sunlight and seawater.  Thickness changes does not drive the sea ice, rather they occur through these other factors.

Processes controlling surface, bottom and lateral melt of Arctic sea ice in a state of the art sea ice model

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/281622252_Processes_controlling_surface_bottom_and_lateral_melt_of_Arctic_sea_ice_in_a_state_of_the_art_sea_ice_model

Relevant graph from the article attached.

Thank you Archimid.  From the article, “Decompising the total ice melt shows that bottom melt accounts for more than two-thirds of the total melt, top melt accounts for almost a third of the total, and lateral melt contributes less than 10%.”

oren

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #297 on: April 03, 2019, 05:33:49 AM »
I found KK's original comment on the irrelevance of volume/thickness to be quite opposite to reality, but decided to avoid cluttering this thread. I am sure many feel the same. I'd appreciate it if anybody can point to a relevant thread where this can be discussed freely.

Sterks

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #298 on: April 03, 2019, 09:34:11 AM »
Yeah I agree with Oren.
And the sheer dumbness or even mendacity of KK arguments makes it off topic.
And I won't elaborate on why they are dumb (review six years of forum or post in Stupid Questions. Well not even. ) And I won't respond to KK

Neven

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #299 on: April 03, 2019, 09:38:30 AM »
Let's be nice, this isn't the Trump-thread.
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