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wdmn

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #6700 on: September 20, 2019, 05:06:32 AM »
I get that, but I mean, does this mean another cold winter where I am? How long is this going to go on before it transitions to something else? What will that something else be?

I know the answers are probably not well studied, but surely this can't be a complete surprise. You mention the word quadrupole being used in 2013 after all.

sark

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #6701 on: September 20, 2019, 05:25:14 AM »
I get that, but I mean, does this mean another cold winter where I am? How long is this going to go on before it transitions to something else? What will that something else be?

I know the answers are probably not well studied, but surely this can't be a complete surprise. You mention the word quadrupole being used in 2013 after all.

Now we are going off topic and should start a new thread on Atmosphere

Essentially it wants to be an equable climate but it stayed too cold at the pole to allow it.  Like the Southern Hemisphere.  Well, we hit the point where that's no longer working.

now we're seeing a mix of interglacial / equable climate regimes blending together.

It is changing faster than it is warming.  It's the dynamics that are in trouble.  Almost every year will be palpably worse.  That is abrupt climate change featuring a runaway of the climate structure.

Jet streams will start dissolving as big packets of tropical height atmosphere flood to the pole.

There are many places to do research to understand this line of thinking

https://youtu.be/Y12P76EYQJ8?t=1

https://youtu.be/QmGK6TpiwIA?t=284

https://youtu.be/eGshzvKAM3w?t=237

https://youtu.be/BdNxyO9lUpg?t=1

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Shared Humanity

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #6702 on: September 20, 2019, 05:35:16 AM »
We are way off topic.

Sam

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #6703 on: September 20, 2019, 05:41:21 AM »
Though it may seem off topic, it is not.

We are, as sark notes, beginning the decades long transition to a new atmospheric circulation. We have seen aspects of this developing for the last 20 years. We will see more as the years pass.

From now on, this is on topic for each melt year.

This year it appears to have played a small role as the jet streams and circulation destabilize. Those disruptions will grow.

Sam

Tigertown

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #6704 on: September 20, 2019, 05:46:14 AM »
We are way off topic.
Off topic; And yet, this year, not so much.

sark

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #6705 on: September 20, 2019, 05:50:29 AM »
Try it, you'll like it.

Fast atmospheric response to a sudden thinning of Arctic sea ice

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00382-015-2629-7
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Jim Hunt

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #6706 on: September 20, 2019, 07:23:37 AM »
At the risk of drifting off topic, JAXA/ViSHOP exent is now back above 4M.

4.01 to be precise!
Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one - Albert Einstein

Jim Hunt

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #6707 on: September 20, 2019, 07:26:43 AM »
I  had the same figure but  I  think NSIDC has updated the figures since then.

I've been incrementally updating my NSIDC spreadsheet for more years than I care to remember. I probably need to start from scratch with fresh SII 3.0 numbers.
Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one - Albert Einstein

Jim Hunt

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #6708 on: September 20, 2019, 07:36:12 AM »
Huff-&-Puff!! Such rank hypocrisy !!! And from Jim Hunt, of all people !!!!!.

Shame on you all !!!

The shame? The shame is on the other side:



See: "Good Music"

We can be heroes?

See: https://skepticalscience.com/news.php?n=4558#132822

Is anybody "climate striking"?

See: "Extinction Rebellion"

Now back to what's left of the 2019 melting season in here please.
Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one - Albert Einstein

Jim Hunt

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #6709 on: September 20, 2019, 07:53:52 AM »
Though it may seem off topic, it is not.

Oh yes it is Sam!

Whilst I don't disagree with your broader point, perhaps the "Slow Transition" thread is the right place to discuss "the decades long transition to a new atmospheric circulation"?

Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one - Albert Einstein

jdallen

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #6710 on: September 20, 2019, 08:59:36 AM »
It is interesting to note that there is a pattern to the very bad years of 2007, 2012, 2016, and 2019. <snip>
As far as I remember that's what "be cause" is posting in his signature on a daily base, at least interesting indeed
the art of the ( not so ) subliminal message ? . b.c.
I see more random behavior:
<snip>
2010 was a bad year. (and *really* bad for volume loss...)
<snip>
More important: On PIOMAS September volume, 2019 is going to be almost as bad as 2012.   
My interest now is going to be... will the overheated winter temperatures we saw in 2016-17, 2017-18 and to a lesser degree 2018-19 continue?

And then as a follow on... will 2020 be more of the same (more or less like the last 4 years), or a rebound like 2013?
This space for Rent.

jdallen

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #6711 on: September 20, 2019, 09:02:10 AM »
I believe water is densest at several degrees above freezing.
Correct - at about 5c/42f - except with high salt content.  With greater salinity, that oddity vanishes.
This space for Rent.

El Cid

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #6712 on: September 20, 2019, 09:46:24 AM »
Slater's model final report :)

Many criticized Slater's model on this thread during the summer when I presented its forecasts as "not up to the new ice dynamics", "it's a different environment now", which I found dubious as the model keeps updating itself based on the last years' ice survival percentages, so it is always up-to date if one can say so - at least that is my view.

Anyway, the model's projected lowest ice extent was 3.87 M sq km which is pretty good if you ask me, since we seem to be bottoming out around the 4 M mark. I still give this model an A+ and think could be relevant for some more melt seasons to come, so we should keep peeking at it if we can during 2020 as well.

grixm

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #6713 on: September 20, 2019, 10:34:56 AM »
At the risk of drifting off topic, JAXA/ViSHOP exent is now back above 4M.

4.01 to be precise!

Goodbye three, we hardly knew ye

iceman

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #6714 on: September 20, 2019, 12:34:15 PM »
   .... perhaps the "Slow Transition" thread is the right place to discuss "the decades long transition to a new atmospheric circulation"?

Yes please. Sam's points are worth considering, but will be lost a year from now unless posted in the appropriate thread.

Sam

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #6715 on: September 20, 2019, 12:46:50 PM »
Though it may seem off topic, it is not.

Oh yes it is Sam!

Whilst I don't disagree with your broader point, perhaps the "Slow Transition" thread is the right place to discuss "the decades long transition to a new atmospheric circulation"?

Actually it isn’t. But for many myopia prevails, leading to blind stumbling into catastrophe.

It is very much the case of missing the conflagration that is the forest fire by excessively focusing on a single tree, and discounting the few burning embers and singed branches.

Sam
« Last Edit: September 20, 2019, 12:52:28 PM by Sam »

F.Tnioli

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #6716 on: September 20, 2019, 01:34:16 PM »
Sam, multi-year dynamics are off-topic here as long as discussing them does not lead to anyhow better understanding of the 2019 melting season. The _topic_ is named "The 2019 melting season", and thus any discussion which does not and/or can not allow to gain knowledge about this one single melting season, in here - is off-topic by definition. This does not anyhow reduce such discussion's own value, of course. The term "off-topic" merely indicates the discussion, however valuable, is not supposed to happen in this particular topic, nothing more and nothing else.

That said, there are indeed some subjects which, despite being off-topic, may be allowed to be discussed in this topic by the board's administration, to some finite length. The one Sark so originally touched - is probably among them. Importance and obvious relation to this melting season are among probable reasons for it to be. However, please always remember that the more off-topic discussion we'd do here, the less compact and "handy" the topic becomes for great many people who come to it for information specifically about the melting season itself. It is, you see, much about respect to other people to limit off-topic discussion here quite much, even if and when there would be good reasons to have it.

IMHO.

Aleph_Null

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #6717 on: September 20, 2019, 01:41:30 PM »
Updated full-size versions available in the Nullschool Animations thread:
https://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php/topic,2905.msg229633.html#msg229633

Hindcast: 9/16 to 9/20, Forecast: 9/20 to 9/24. Wind + IWPD @ 850hPa (tiny version)

Alphabet Hotel

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #6718 on: September 20, 2019, 03:00:13 PM »
I get that, but I mean, does this mean another cold winter where I am? How long is this going to go on before it transitions to something else? What will that something else be?

I know the answers are probably not well studied, but surely this can't be a complete surprise. You mention the word quadrupole being used in 2013 after all.

I don't think anyone knows what happens next. All we have to go on is history.

Looking forward to the 2019 freezing season thread, which should start soon.

Shared Humanity

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #6719 on: September 20, 2019, 03:09:39 PM »
Though it may seem off topic, it is not.

This is the 2019 melting season thread. On topic comments would be about this. There are other threads where this can be discussed.

Shared Humanity

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #6720 on: September 20, 2019, 03:14:44 PM »
   .... perhaps the "Slow Transition" thread is the right place to discuss "the decades long transition to a new atmospheric circulation"?

Yes please. Sam's points are worth considering, but will be lost a year from now unless posted in the appropriate thread.

Agree. This is a very interesting topic. Would love to follow it. If it migrated to the correct thread, I could do this.

Shared Humanity

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #6721 on: September 20, 2019, 03:16:52 PM »
Though it may seem off topic, it is not.

Oh yes it is Sam!

Whilst I don't disagree with your broader point, perhaps the "Slow Transition" thread is the right place to discuss "the decades long transition to a new atmospheric circulation"?

Actually it isn’t. But for many myopia prevails, leading to blind stumbling into catastrophe.

It is very much the case of missing the conflagration that is the forest fire by excessively focusing on a single tree, and discounting the few burning embers and singed branches.

Sam

This is the 2019 melting season thread, please. Thanks.

Jim Hunt

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #6722 on: September 20, 2019, 03:21:59 PM »
Actually it isn’t. But for many myopia prevails, leading to blind stumbling into catastrophe.

Please take this stuff elsewhere Sam.
Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one - Albert Einstein

Archimid

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #6723 on: September 20, 2019, 04:37:25 PM »
if atmospheric talk of current changes with quick looks of the past and the future is off topic, might as well close the thread. 

While sark words are a bit cryptic they reflect exactly what we are seeing. Terra incognita. The unknown, the new. He follows it with actual data and animations. If it sounds scary, then you are understanding correctly. As a Daily null school checker for the last few years, his historic gifs are extremely useful for context.

Still, complaining and meta posts like this are the main pollutants of this thread this year. Real posts like killians daily predictions, freegrass and AN animations and now sark’s atmospheric posts are all on topic and real contributions.
I am an energy reservoir seemingly intent on lowering entropy for self preservation.

Sam

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #6724 on: September 20, 2019, 06:54:27 PM »
.... and thus any discussion which does not and/or can not allow to gain knowledge about this one single melting season, in here - is off-topic by definition. This does not anyhow reduce such discussion's own value, of course.

...

The one Sark so originally touched - is probably among them. Importance and obvious relation to this melting season are among probable reasons for it to be.

Precisely! My comment was in defense of sark. The changes in the atmosphere, as sark pointed out, directly showed impact on this years ice melt season. That makes it decidedly on-topic despite the protestations, just as the GAC was on topic in its time.

As the atmosphere destabilizes that will make it even more on-topic each and likely every season.

One of the terrible problems with granular division of topics is that it supports failing to see the major driving factors development as they influence events. This is quite literally like missing the death of the forests and the massive forest fire by focusing on the eating habits of the bark beetles. I mean after all - this is the 2019 season of beetle hatch we are watching.

Sam

Glen Koehler

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #6725 on: September 20, 2019, 08:03:00 PM »
      Nobody is saying the topic of changing weather dynamics is unimportant, just that this thread is narrowly focused on the 2019 melt season, not the bigger picture.  Likewise, the existentially important topic of the possible emergence of altered weather patterns will get more informed discussion by appearing in its own thread.  And as noted above, appearing as the main topic of a thread creates a focused archival record of the conversation on that particular topic.

    If your concern is that fewer people will see it there because we all congregate at the melting thread and that people won't make the effort to see another important topic discussed in a separate thread, all I can say is c'est la vie.  You can't make people care about something.  I think the overwhelming majority of ASIF visitors do care about the climate crisis or they wouldn't be here.  An active thread about weather dynamics would be a good addition.  But not good to hijack the thread focused on watching the ice melt.  Diluting the focus and therefore quality of the melting thread would do more harm than good.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2019, 08:08:02 PM by Glen Koehler »

Sam

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #6726 on: September 20, 2019, 08:22:43 PM »
      Nobody is saying the topic of changing weather dynamics is unimportant, just that this thread is narrowly focused on the 2019 melt season, not the bigger picture.  Likewise, the existentially important topic of the possible emergence of altered weather patterns will get more informed discussion by appearing in its own thread.  And as noted above, appearing as the main topic of a thread creates a focused archival record of the conversation on that particular topic.

    If your concern is that fewer people will see it there because we all congregate at the melting thread and that people won't make the effort to see another important topic discussed in a separate thread, all I can say is c'est la vie.  You can't make people care about something.  I think the overwhelming majority of ASIF visitors do care about the climate crisis or they wouldn't be here.  An active thread about weather dynamics would be a good addition.  But not good to hijack the thread focused on watching the ice melt.  Diluting the focus and therefore quality of the melting thread would do more harm than good.

You've missed the main points. What sark was noting is that the larger problem (destabilization of the atmosphere) is impacting this melt season.

Second, that this will get more extensive in succeeding seasons and we need to expect and look for that.

Third, there very much seems at least to be a view by some in this thread that this year (or any year's) ice melt is independent of the larger controlling dynamics. And this if true I find most concerning of all. It is akin to weather forecasters focusing on short term weather why also philosophically denying climate change. We cannot get stuck there.

Focusing on the near term local while excluding the impacts of larger causes and the larger causes themselves is a grievous mistake.

Sam


gandul

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #6727 on: September 20, 2019, 09:08:39 PM »
      Nobody is saying the topic of changing weather dynamics is unimportant, just that this thread is narrowly focused on the 2019 melt season, not the bigger picture.  Likewise, the existentially important topic of the possible emergence of altered weather patterns will get more informed discussion by appearing in its own thread.  And as noted above, appearing as the main topic of a thread creates a focused archival record of the conversation on that particular topic.

    If your concern is that fewer people will see it there because we all congregate at the melting thread and that people won't make the effort to see another important topic discussed in a separate thread, all I can say is c'est la vie.  You can't make people care about something.  I think the overwhelming majority of ASIF visitors do care about the climate crisis or they wouldn't be here.  An active thread about weather dynamics would be a good addition.  But not good to hijack the thread focused on watching the ice melt.  Diluting the focus and therefore quality of the melting thread would do more harm than good.

You've missed the main points. What sark was noting is that the larger problem (destabilization of the atmosphere) is impacting this melt season.

Second, that this will get more extensive in succeeding seasons and we need to expect and look for that.

Third, there very much seems at least to be a view by some in this thread that this year (or any year's) ice melt is independent of the larger controlling dynamics. And this if true I find most concerning of all. It is akin to weather forecasters focusing on short term weather why also philosophically denying climate change. We cannot get stuck there.

Focusing on the near term local while excluding the impacts of larger causes and the larger causes themselves is a grievous mistake.

Sam
Well the particular year weather does matter.
But I agree we have to look at this with a wider scope. It is not a Swiss clock-precise succession of warm ridges what will end with the Arctic ice. It has to be a more systemic change, encompassing Fall-to-Summer alterations.
The warmest May-to-August, to September probably, on record, was disappointing, wasn't it?
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Oscillidous

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #6728 on: September 20, 2019, 09:11:57 PM »
I admire Sarks' ability to speak so vaguely, it's very political. The pictures are helpful but for the lay persons here, it's very confusing and that aside, the ideas aren't very coherent. He isn't a scientist, he is doing this work in his spare time so I'm not at all faulting his character, I just wish he would invest more effort into explaining rather than broadly speaking.

Atmospheric change is a factor that affects melting season, but this is a thread about ice melt exclusively, so anything that doesn't immediately influence that should be quite fairly seen as off topic. There are plenty of other threads to take other topics to.
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oren

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #6729 on: September 20, 2019, 09:28:03 PM »
Quote
You've missed the main points. What sark was noting is that the larger problem (destabilization of the atmosphere) is impacting this melt season.

Second, that this will get more extensive in succeeding seasons and we need to expect and look for that.
The first point is relevant here, but the second belongs in its own thread and should only be referenced, not discussed ad nauseum in this thread. Like we do not discuss coal growth in China here, though all know it is very relevant. So please, enough with the hijacking (and with quoting terribly long nested posts in full).

gandul

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #6730 on: September 20, 2019, 09:58:33 PM »
Quote
You've missed the main points. What sark was noting is that the larger problem (destabilization of the atmosphere) is impacting this melt season.

Second, that this will get more extensive in succeeding seasons and we need to expect and look for that.
The first point is relevant here, but the second belongs in its own thread and should only be referenced, not discussed ad nauseum in this thread. Like we do not discuss coal growth in China here, though all know it is very relevant. So please, enough with the hijacking (and with quoting terribly long nested posts in full).
This thread is dying.... let it die as it wishes...
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sark

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #6731 on: September 21, 2019, 04:45:48 AM »
This *is* the 3rd blocking ingress to the North Pole in 1 single month.

Ridges in the jet stream from both sides of the planet are diving in toward the North Pole simultaneously every 8 weeks, 16 days, and now every 8 days.  The polar cell is breaking into 2 pieces.  That's as simple to say as it is to look at a map every couple of days.  This isn't just 1 PV split or 1 Arctic Air outbreak during Winter.  It doesn't stop.

It looks like maybe we will experience blocking year round in the Northern Hemisphere.  That might mean to watch for Arctic Sea Ice to spend a lot of time at the lowest ice extent to date in the coming weeks.  High pressure will bring clear skies and promote cooling, but if the pace of the tropical incursions into the Arctic is quick enough, it could provide the heat.  I dunno

Very slow ice growth and probably a lot of storms everywhere.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2019, 07:21:37 AM by sark »
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tzupancic

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #6732 on: September 21, 2019, 06:12:06 AM »
As the arctic freezing season begins I would just reiterate that with such a complex system, which is presently changing in multiple dimensions, that comparisons with historical events to understand present and future behavior, is a problematic hypothesis.

I would suggest that what is about to happen next is different than what is expected.

Aluminium

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #6733 on: September 21, 2019, 07:33:18 AM »
September 15-20.

2018.

Jim Hunt

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #6734 on: September 21, 2019, 07:50:42 AM »
Focusing on the near term local while excluding the impacts of larger causes and the larger causes themselves is a grievous mistake.

No it's not Sam. It's the whole point of this thread.

By all means provide a brief explanation in here whilst linking to other threads on the ASIF, academic papers or other web sites that cover the larger causes. If a suitable ASIF thread doesn't already exist feel free to start one.

As has already been pointed out to you, any "larger" points made in here will swiftly become lost below the noise threshold in the weeks, months and years to come.
Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one - Albert Einstein

Jim Hunt

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #6735 on: September 21, 2019, 08:04:00 AM »
The NSIDC daily extent has increased for the second day running, leaving the provisional minimum at 4.10 million km² on September 17th

JAXA/ViSHOP extent has crept up to 4.05 million km².
Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one - Albert Einstein

El Cid

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #6736 on: September 21, 2019, 08:31:48 AM »
I would suggest that what is about to happen next is different than what is expected.

Yes, we hear that every season...it has yet to happen though...

On the topic of the "broken" polar cell: it seems logical that as the Arctic becomes an open ocean, there will be two poles of cold: one in Siberia and one in Greenland/Hudson area. That is what sark's winter temp charts show.

On the speed of refreeze: I attach the latest SST anomaly vs the past 3 (very warm) years on the same day. The seas are still very hot, so any refreeze will most likely be a struggle. I think there will be open water in the ESS/Laptev area even in November, just like 2018 (attached ice on Nov1, 2018)

blumenkraft

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #6737 on: September 21, 2019, 08:45:06 AM »
In Kane Basin, refreeze becomes obvious.
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Niall Dollard

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Re: The 2019 season
« Reply #6738 on: September 21, 2019, 10:11:15 AM »
Yes BL. Plenty of freezing all across northern Greenland down into Kane Basin and lots also over the western side of the CAA.

This candian ice image from Sept 16. Lots of light pink/new ice.

oren

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #6739 on: September 21, 2019, 10:12:00 AM »
Finally. Another melting season is over.
Time to unfreeze the freezing season thread

Archimid

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #6740 on: September 21, 2019, 11:30:44 AM »

It looks like maybe we will experience blocking year round in the Northern Hemisphere.  That might mean to watch for Arctic Sea Ice to spend a lot of time at the lowest ice extent to date in the coming weeks.  High pressure will bring clear skies and promote cooling, but if the pace of the tropical incursions into the Arctic is quick enough, it could provide the heat.  I dunno

Very slow ice growth and probably a lot of storms everywhere.

I think thickness will be more affected than extent by WAA during winter. The water will cool and thin ice will form (yay extent) but the temperature above the ice will be warm and the ice will thicken slower than in it did in the past. 
I am an energy reservoir seemingly intent on lowering entropy for self preservation.

Jim Hunt

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #6741 on: September 21, 2019, 11:32:31 AM »
Time to unfreeze the freezing season thread

The proprietor's decision is final!

Let's hope the signal to noise ratio improves in the darkness?
Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one - Albert Einstein

MA Rodger

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #6742 on: September 21, 2019, 01:51:18 PM »
So how does the 2019 melt season rate?
I'm of the view that the final daily minimum SIE is not the best of measures, where it came a 2nd or perhaps =2nd. The average over September will probably not yield a much different result. (There are yet 10 more days for the refreeze to pile on the ice and close the gap with 2007.)

But as a melt season as a whole, how did it do?
The table below of JAXA SIE gives 2019 top spot for the average ice through the melt season March-Sept. With the last 7 years all in top-ten spots, the decline in Arctic SIE is quite obvious.
But if you see a melt season as being measured by 'melt achieved', then that =2nd placing is probably merited.

JAXA SIE
         Ave  21Mar-to-19Sept (M sq km)
                                            % ave melted at minimum
2019   .... .... ....   9.02   .... .... ....   54%
2016   .... .... ....   9.08   .... .... ....   54%
2012   .... .... ....   9.30   .... .... ....   65%
2017   .... .... ....   9.32   .... .... ....   51%
2018   .... .... ....   9.35   .... .... ....   51%
2011   .... .... ....   9.37   .... .... ....   53%
2015   .... .... ....   9.41   .... .... ....   54%
2007   .... .... ....   9.42   .... .... ....   55%
2013   .... .... ....   9.47   .... .... ....   48%
2014   .... .... ....   9.62   .... .... ....   48%

blumenkraft

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #6743 on: September 21, 2019, 02:40:52 PM »
Interesting stats, MA Rodger. Thanks for sharing.

Keep us updated if something changes for 2019, please.
Refugees welcome

Shared Humanity

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #6744 on: September 21, 2019, 02:59:49 PM »
Focusing on the near term local while excluding the impacts of larger causes and the larger causes themselves is a grievous mistake.

No it's not Sam. It's the whole point of this thread.

By all means provide a brief explanation in here whilst linking to other threads on the ASIF, academic papers or other web sites that cover the larger causes. If a suitable ASIF thread doesn't already exist feel free to start one.

As has already been pointed out to you, any "larger" points made in here will swiftly become lost below the noise threshold in the weeks, months and years to come.


I hope sark and sam take your advice. Post real time atmospheric behaviors here that are having an effect on the melt season and create a thread that dives into the subject in a more in depth manner with scientific articles as support. Would be a great addition to the site.


Neven

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Re: The 2019 melting season
« Reply #6745 on: September 21, 2019, 11:27:31 PM »
I was away for a few days, but it took me about 5 seconds to decide it would be good to call the minimum. The 2019/2020 freezing season thread is open.

Thanks for all the contributions. There is plenty of signal between the noise for historians to make note of, 500 years from now.  ;)
« Last Edit: September 22, 2019, 10:47:56 AM by Neven »
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