Support the Arctic Sea Ice Forum and Blog

Author Topic: Relative sanity of fringe groups  (Read 656 times)

Paddy

  • ASIF Citizen
  • Posts: 495
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 10
  • Likes Given: 15
Relative sanity of fringe groups
« on: March 05, 2019, 12:17:28 AM »
Which of the following groups with minority beliefs and attitudes do you personally sympathise with least? Please rank from least to most mad (in your view):

(Ranked alphabetically for now)

Anti-Vaxxers
Astrology believers
Climate change denialists
Doomsday preppers
Flat earthers
Moon landing denialists
UFO believers
Vegans
Young Earth Creationists

Please feel free to write in extras, or to specify where you draw the line between the mad and the sane.

Apologies to anyone I've offended by the groupings. I don't personally hold all these groups to be mad, or their majority counterparts to be sane; I was just going for a scattershot selection of minority beliefs from across the spectrum of human ideas.

P-maker

  • ASIF Citizen
  • Posts: 197
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 1
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Relative sanity of fringe groups
« Reply #1 on: March 05, 2019, 12:30:25 AM »
Paddy,

I believe that the Vegans are the only ones on the right side of our future. Not that I'm vegan myself, just that these young fundamentalists are the only ones taking the right position at this particular time in history.

Cheers P

Neven

  • Administrator
  • ASIF Royalty
  • *****
  • Posts: 6608
    • View Profile
    • Arctic Sea Ice Blog
  • Liked: 352
  • Likes Given: 241
Re: Relative sanity of fringe groups
« Reply #2 on: March 05, 2019, 12:49:51 AM »
Vegans (I don't think it's healthy for everyone, but I have respect, even though some vegans are really annoying)
Doomsday preppers (I understand, but it doesn't work)
Anti-Vaxxers (the big problem is corporate profits, the main reasons for it are economic, there should be more focus on degenerated health due to processed foods)
Astrology believers (harmless, but silly at times)
UFO believers (lots of crazy nonsense out there, but so many serious people have seen them, I've heard personal stories)
Moon landing denialists (I quite like this conspiracy theory, even though I don't subscribe to it)
Young Earth Creationists (religious people can be annoying in general, but this stuff makes them really annoying)
Flat earthers (I've watched some videos on YouTube after a friend sent a link, these guys are super annoying, they have an explanation for everything!)
Climate change denialists (these are the worst, because people are going to die and suffer because of their actions, + they're old and white and have been completely brainwashed by last century's Cold War propaganda)

Can you add 'scientism supporters' as well? I'd probably put those people between Young Earth Creationsts and Flat Earthers.
Il faut comparer, comparer, comparer, et cultiver notre jardin

Niall Dollard

  • ASIF Citizen
  • Posts: 383
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 69
  • Likes Given: 17
Re: Relative sanity of fringe groups
« Reply #3 on: March 05, 2019, 12:52:55 AM »
Which of the following groups with minority beliefs and attitudes do you personally sympathise with least? Please rank from least to most mad (in your view):

My view. To be clear my ranking goes from sympathise most with to least at the bottom. Note I think some groups (eg flat earthers) are downright comical and just for entertainment value, I have ranked them higher than I would otherwise (if I was just basing my ranking on a purely scientific analysis only). The world needs humour too. Ditto I suppose for astrology - many are entertained by this and are not concerned by science. I'll bet everyone here knows their star sign !

Vegans
Anti-Vaxxers
911 Truthers
Doomsday preppers
UFO believers
Flat earthers
Astrology believers
Moon landing denialists
Climate change denialists
Young Earth Creationists

Please feel free to write in extras, or to specify where you draw the line between the mad and the sane.

I've also added 911 Truthers to the mix.

oren

  • ASIF Governor
  • Posts: 3521
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 431
  • Likes Given: 931
Re: Relative sanity of fringe groups
« Reply #4 on: March 05, 2019, 02:14:32 AM »
Paddy,

I believe that the Vegans are the only ones on the right side of our future. Not that I'm vegan myself, just that these young fundamentalists are the only ones taking the right position at this particular time in history.

Cheers P
Indeed. Veganism increases the human carrying capacity of this poor planet, so it has a very good scientific reason for the society, though I'm not sure if it's the most optimal approach for the individual.
All the rest of these anti-science fringes piss me off, but Flat Earthers are the worst in terms of the level of denial needed, as almost anyone can prove the curvature by simple experiments/observations. The worst moral denial is the Moon Landing folks, as they trash one of humanity's greatest engineering achievements. The worst damage is certainly by Climate Deniers (not really a fringe, but an organized old guard).

Sebastian Jones

  • ASIF Citizen
  • Posts: 224
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 20
  • Likes Given: 26
Re: Relative sanity of fringe groups
« Reply #5 on: March 05, 2019, 04:26:11 AM »
It is difficult to choose between the anti-vaxxers and the climate denialists for the most harmful group.
The anti-vaxxers are causing death and disfigurement every day, but one hopes this fad will fade away or be legislated out of existence.
Climate denialists are threatening the very future of life on earth, but their influence wanes with every fire, flood, storm and drought.

Human Habitat Index

  • ASIF Citizen
  • Posts: 111
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 7
  • Likes Given: 45
Re: Relative sanity of fringe groups
« Reply #6 on: March 05, 2019, 06:52:02 AM »
<snip, off-topic, let's not turn this into a discussion of the merits of particlar conspiracy theories; N.>
« Last Edit: March 05, 2019, 08:51:48 AM by Neven »
There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance. That principle is contempt prior to investigation. - Herbert Spencer

Human Habitat Index

  • ASIF Citizen
  • Posts: 111
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 7
  • Likes Given: 45
Re: Relative sanity of fringe groups
« Reply #7 on: March 05, 2019, 06:55:12 AM »
<snip, same; N.>
« Last Edit: March 05, 2019, 08:52:10 AM by Neven »
There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance. That principle is contempt prior to investigation. - Herbert Spencer

Paddy

  • ASIF Citizen
  • Posts: 495
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 10
  • Likes Given: 15
Re: Relative sanity of fringe groups
« Reply #8 on: March 05, 2019, 08:18:48 AM »
I wonder if I should have made a two way axis for "how divorced from reality is this belief" vs "how harmful is this belief". On the whole I would say that antivaxxers and climate change deniers are not quite so divorced from reality as, say, flat earthers (who are truly on another level), but I would also say that their beliefs are a lot more harmful.

Human Habitat Index

  • ASIF Citizen
  • Posts: 111
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 7
  • Likes Given: 45
Re: Relative sanity of fringe groups
« Reply #9 on: March 05, 2019, 08:24:27 AM »
<snip, same; N.>
« Last Edit: March 05, 2019, 08:52:36 AM by Neven »
There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance. That principle is contempt prior to investigation. - Herbert Spencer

b_lumenkraft

  • ASIF Middle Class
  • Posts: 818
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 167
  • Likes Given: 1013
Re: Relative sanity of fringe groups
« Reply #10 on: March 05, 2019, 08:37:25 AM »
<snip, same; N.>
« Last Edit: March 05, 2019, 08:52:57 AM by Neven »

Human Habitat Index

  • ASIF Citizen
  • Posts: 111
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 7
  • Likes Given: 45
Re: Relative sanity of fringe groups
« Reply #11 on: March 05, 2019, 08:48:27 AM »
<snip, same; N.>
« Last Edit: March 05, 2019, 08:53:14 AM by Neven »
There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance. That principle is contempt prior to investigation. - Herbert Spencer

Human Habitat Index

  • ASIF Citizen
  • Posts: 111
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 7
  • Likes Given: 45
Re: Relative sanity of fringe groups
« Reply #12 on: March 05, 2019, 09:04:52 AM »
To determine "relative sanity" one must first compare and rank the conspiracy theories.

Sanity would then be proportional to the viability (amount of good evidence) of a particular conspiracy theory.
There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance. That principle is contempt prior to investigation. - Herbert Spencer

Neven

  • Administrator
  • ASIF Royalty
  • *****
  • Posts: 6608
    • View Profile
    • Arctic Sea Ice Blog
  • Liked: 352
  • Likes Given: 241
Re: Relative sanity of fringe groups
« Reply #13 on: March 05, 2019, 09:27:30 AM »
We do not have to determine anything together. Anyone can determine for themselves and then share their ranking.

I'm fine with some discussion, but not endless back-and-forths of enormous texts, full of stuff that is nigh impossible to check or track down, with everyone losing their nerve. Been there, done that.
Il faut comparer, comparer, comparer, et cultiver notre jardin

ritter

  • ASIF Middle Class
  • Posts: 538
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 3
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Relative sanity of fringe groups
« Reply #14 on: March 05, 2019, 05:54:11 PM »
First, there are a few that are misguided but harmless.
Astrology believers (so what? No different than belief in the big guy in the sky)
Doomsday preppers (doomsday is a little silly, but prep is not for those of us in areas of frequent natural disasters)
Vegans (not totally misguided, but I believe animal protein in moderation is a healthier choice)


Then there is the truly ignorant category, yet still mostly harmless:
Flat earthers
Moon landing denialists
UFO believers
Young Earth Creationists

Then, the truly harmful category.
Anti-Vaxxers
Climate change denialists (these are the worst)

Human Habitat Index

  • ASIF Citizen
  • Posts: 111
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 7
  • Likes Given: 45
Re: Relative sanity of fringe groups
« Reply #15 on: March 06, 2019, 01:07:33 AM »
<snip, off-topic, last warning or I'm putting you on moderation; N.>
« Last Edit: March 06, 2019, 01:04:58 PM by Neven »
There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance. That principle is contempt prior to investigation. - Herbert Spencer

Sebastian Jones

  • ASIF Citizen
  • Posts: 224
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 20
  • Likes Given: 26
Re: Relative sanity of fringe groups
« Reply #16 on: March 06, 2019, 01:39:36 AM »
Human cells harvested from aborted foetuses are used for growing several types of viruses in vaccines.

Does injecting this into babies make them cannibals ?

Here is a comprehensive list of vaccine ingredients:-
         
 SNIP

https://avn.org.au/information/vaccines-and-diseases/vaccine-ingredients/

What's your point Human? If you are suggesting that vaccines are a bad thing, then I do not wish to address your question re: cannibals.

Paddy

  • ASIF Citizen
  • Posts: 495
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 10
  • Likes Given: 15
Re: Relative sanity of fringe groups
« Reply #17 on: March 07, 2019, 11:17:37 PM »
Worth noting, of course, that there's probably a fair bit of overlap between some of these groups, eg between flat earthers, young earth creationists and climate change deniers, or between homeopaths and vaccine deniers (and other alternative medical beliefs, from reiki to harm-of-smoking denial)

ASILurker

  • Guest
Re: Relative sanity of fringe groups
« Reply #18 on: March 08, 2019, 06:37:20 AM »
What is the relative sanity of the fringe group who rejects the establishment corporate MSM these days, and where do they fit on the continuum listed above?

a couple of random quotes from the comments section shows:

"Last week I stopped cold turkey watching main stream media.  I've never been better informed. Boycott the machine."

"corporate power + government complicity = (economic) fascism"

"I can see why the establishment hate Chris. He has integrity. Speaks truth."

"Yellow vest wearing protesters,  or something akin to that, are needed all across the USA."


Are they merely deranged conspiracy theorists with no facts or academic evidence to back them up? Is Chris Hedges a fraud?