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silkman

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Re: Brexit...
« Reply #50 on: May 27, 2019, 02:00:56 PM »
Is this democracy ? b.c.

Of course not!
It's totally bizarre. The only item on the Westminster agenda is Brexit but despite their abject failure to deliver a negotiated departure and their disastrous performance (<10% of the vote) in the EU election the Tories remain in power with the new deadline at the end of October looming.

At the same time, Jeremy Corbyn was still sitting on the "we're consulting our members" fence this morning and leadership seems to have gone awol when it's most needed.

We're now facing a Whitsun recess (apparently MPs need another holiday) followed by a Tory leadership election campaign which will identify a new aspirant (probably Boris Johnson) for that role by sometime in July. Unless something changes and the Tory inspired Fixed Term Parliament Act makes that  unlikely, the new Tory leader will then take over from Mrs May as an unelected Prime Minister.

All of which brings us to August when the EU is on the beach. The British political parties all hold their annual conferences in late September leaving little parliamentary time to achieve any constructive progress before the EU October deadline. The conclusion is that, if we leave in this scenario, it's highly likely to be without a negotiated deal which no one voted for.

The consequences of a no deal Brexit go way beyond the economic impact on both sides of the English Channel as it will seriously threaten the existence of the United Kingdom. The Scots will vigorously pursue independence and renewed sectarian issues in Northern Ireland can't be ruled out.

All this and, of course, the massive opportunity cost associated with three years of unproductive endeavour resulted from David Cameron's origin decision to offer the country an EU referendum in order to solve a Tory party problem.

Whatever the rights and wrongs of challenging that very flawed democratic exercise with a second vote, I live in hope that we'll be offered the chance of a confirmatory vote before we accept the outcome of this sorry exercise; especially so if what's on the table is departure without a deal.



kassy

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Re: Brexit...
« Reply #51 on: May 27, 2019, 03:28:53 PM »
Guys just start a popular movement to change to proportional voting. They listened on Brexit so if you get over 50% votes Boris will negotiate a hard break with the old system and all the priviliges it comes with. He might even behead a couple of Lords just to speed up the negotiations.  ;)

Þetta minnismerki er til vitnis um að við vitum hvað er að gerast og hvað þarf að gera. Aðeins þú veist hvort við gerðum eitthvað.

Jim Hunt

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Re: Brexit...
« Reply #52 on: May 27, 2019, 03:30:13 PM »
In related news, according to The Grauniad:

Quote
A thriller is underway in Greece with ever more media reporting that it will be a matter of votes as to whether Yanis Varoufakis’s European Realistic Disobedience Front (MeRA 25) party wins a seat in the European parliament.

Known in English as the Democracy in Europe Movement 2025 (DiEM25), the alliance of left-wingers and greens ran candidates in eight countries, with Varoufakis trying and failing to secure a seat in Germany.

In Greece, with 85.25 % of the vote counted by 15:38 local time, MeRA 25 had garnered 3% - enough to win one seat in the European Parliament according to Singular Logic, the software company supplying official data for the vote count.

If the result holds, the party will send Sofia Sakorafa, a former Syriza party MEP and world-breaking Olympic Javelin thrower, to Brussels and Strasbourg.
Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one - Albert Einstein

Jim Hunt

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Re: Brexit...
« Reply #53 on: May 27, 2019, 03:35:59 PM »
Guys just start a popular movement to change to proportional voting.

Once upon a time the once Great British electorate were offered a referendum on "proportional representation":

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_United_Kingdom_Alternative_Vote_referendum

Quote
It occurred as part of the Conservative – Liberal Democrat Coalition Agreement drawn up after the 2010 general election which had resulted in the first hung parliament since February 1974.

The decisive No vote continues to be cited as an endorsement of first-past-the-post and a rejection of proportional representation. The government response to a 2016–17 parliamentary petition demanding proportional representation said that "A referendum on changing the voting system was held in 2011 and the public voted overwhelmingly in favour of keeping the FPTP system."

Tim Ivorson of the electoral reform campaign Make Votes Matter responded by quoting the petition's text that "The UK has never had a say on PR. As David Cameron himself said, the AV Referendum was on a system that is often less proportional than FPTP, so the rejection of AV could not possibly be a rejection of PR."
Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one - Albert Einstein

Jim Hunt

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Re: Brexit...
« Reply #54 on: May 28, 2019, 11:07:36 AM »
An interesting development, from my perspective at least:

https://twitter.com/bbchw/status/1133293814062505985

According to the BBC:

Quote
Hereford & South Herefordshire MP Jesse Norman says he's consulting colleagues and constituents on whether to enter the Conservative leadership contest.

I've seen Jesse in action, and I have to admit that I was quite impressed:

https://twitter.com/V2gUK/status/1105769589663772672

I didn't get to speak to the man in person, but I did speak to members of his team. Unfortunately they didn't give me permission to make public the video I recorded of some Brexit jokes from the panel!

 
Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one - Albert Einstein

b_lumenkraft

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Re: Brexit...
« Reply #55 on: May 28, 2019, 11:39:13 AM »
What the EU Election Results Mean for Brexit - Brexit Explained


pikaia

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Re: Brexit...
« Reply #56 on: May 28, 2019, 01:44:42 PM »
I don't think we will see much progress on Brexit any time soon. The new PM will not be elected until late July, just in time for the summer recess, so nothing much is likely to happen before Parliament resumes in early September, just 8 weeks before the deadline. Then there will be panic as the deadline rapidly approaches, IMO.

Jim Hunt

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Re: Brexit...
« Reply #57 on: May 28, 2019, 02:00:41 PM »
N.B. According to The Grauniad this morning:

Quote
The Labour party’s disastrous EU election result has finally convinced its leader, Jeremy Corbyn, to back a second referendum on any Brexit deal.

Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one - Albert Einstein

Pmt111500

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Re: Brexit...
« Reply #58 on: May 28, 2019, 02:32:31 PM »
Thanks for the updates, this result is of course not a good one, but you might do a brexit so Farage would not get paid by EU. I have a couple of distant relatives in England but didn't realize how many gammons there are.
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Jim Hunt

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Re: Brexit...
« Reply #59 on: May 28, 2019, 02:39:55 PM »
I did speak to members of his team. Unfortunately they didn't give me permission to make public the video I recorded of some Brexit jokes from the panel!

However I did have a long chat with Rachel Burden of Radio 5 Live, who also seemed to be remarkably well briefed on electric vehicle issues. She graciously did give me permission to broadcast her comments to the world at large, so see what you make of this snippet:

Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one - Albert Einstein

Pmt111500

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Re: Brexit...
« Reply #60 on: May 28, 2019, 04:25:57 PM »
Finland voted, among others, Mr Hakkarainen of PS to be a MEP. We contribute to the Strasbourg pool of immigrants with a history of sexual harrassement. Sory.
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b_lumenkraft

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Re: Brexit...
« Reply #61 on: May 29, 2019, 09:31:06 AM »
Finally! \o/

A hoody makes it into the EU parliament. Germany is frontrunner once again!

be cause

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Re: Brexit...
« Reply #62 on: May 29, 2019, 11:44:30 AM »
 .. concentrating on all things Arctic I hadn't noticed this threads awakening ..
as a founding member of the N.I. Green party in the 80's and first regional rep on the U.K.GP council after the '89 election I am very happy to see a few old friends gaining seats . I always thought Caroline Lucas was a good communicator and her voice in parliament has been heard ( thanks Mr Speaker ! ) .
 The Maybots got 9.1% of the votes cast on a turnout of 37% .. how I arrived at 1 in 30 of the electorate ..
 Last night's Newsnight report suggests the Brexit party have destroyed old party loyalties using social media and the result is a new way of doing politics .. flexible and fast moving .

Here in 'Norn' Ireland we had a swing toward the moderate voices and away from the extremes .. now there is a suprise .. Anti brexit votes ensured that the usually largest party , pro brexit DUP , came third
while the centrist Alliance party came 2nd behind Sinn Fein .
I live less than a mile from what may soon become a hard border between me and my friends and family in European Ireland . This threat becoming reality may well unite Ireland where bomb and bullet could not  !  b.c.
2007 + 5 = 2012 + 4 = 2016 + 3 = 2019 ...

b_lumenkraft

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Re: Brexit...
« Reply #63 on: May 29, 2019, 11:48:50 AM »
How was this never posted here???


b_lumenkraft

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Re: Brexit...
« Reply #64 on: May 29, 2019, 11:52:05 AM »
... what may soon become a hard border between me and my friends ...

Brexit will not happen.

Jim Hunt

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Re: Brexit...
« Reply #65 on: May 29, 2019, 12:15:15 PM »
An interesting development, from my perspective at least:

https://twitter.com/V2gUK/status/1105769589663772672

"Shock News" from the Twittosphere!

A potential Great British Prime Minister is retweeting my "professional" alter ego :o

https://twitter.com/V2gUK/status/1133660333372051456
Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one - Albert Einstein

Jim Hunt

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Re: Brexit...
« Reply #66 on: May 29, 2019, 12:21:31 PM »
How was this never posted here???

Zen, restraint, patience:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/may/28/john-bercow-reveals-plans-stay-commons-speaker

Quote
John Bercow has said he plans to stay in his post as Speaker of the House of Commons despite previous expectations he was about to leave, risking the fury of hardline Eurosceptics who believe he wants to thwart a no-deal Brexit.

The Speaker told the Guardian it was not “sensible to vacate the chair” while there were major issues before parliament. And, amid growing indications that frontrunners for the Conservative leadership are willing to depart the EU without a deal, he warned candidates not to try to force such an outcome without the permission of MPs.
Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one - Albert Einstein

Jim Hunt

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Re: Brexit...
« Reply #67 on: May 29, 2019, 12:32:51 PM »
All of which reminds me of another video recording I once made, this time from within the modern extension to the Palace of Westminster.

Another green tinged Tory. Again no permission to make it public:

Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one - Albert Einstein

Pmt111500

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Re: Brexit...
« Reply #68 on: May 29, 2019, 04:40:08 PM »
Only to the House


How was this never posted here???
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b_lumenkraft

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Re: Brexit...
« Reply #69 on: May 29, 2019, 04:53:28 PM »
Only to the House

You got to love the internet...

RealityCheck

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Re: Brexit...
« Reply #70 on: May 29, 2019, 09:35:08 PM »
... what may soon become a hard border between me and my friends ...

Brexit will not happen.

@ b_lumenkraft: I inhabit the other side of the potential hard border i.e. the Republic. I am afraid I share the view we will have a Brexit, one way or the other. The Irish Govt has been staying very close to this, and they see the risk of no deal rising all the time. I hope I am wrong...
Sic transit gloria mundi

RealityCheck

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Re: Brexit...
« Reply #71 on: May 29, 2019, 09:36:32 PM »
Only to the House

You got to love the internet...

Brilliant... yeah, gotta love it.
Sic transit gloria mundi

b_lumenkraft

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Re: Brexit...
« Reply #72 on: May 29, 2019, 09:38:04 PM »

Jim Hunt

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Re: Brexit...
« Reply #73 on: May 29, 2019, 11:03:20 PM »
This couldn't happen to a finer fellow:

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-johnson/pm-candidate-boris-johnson-to-face-court-over-brexit-comments-idUKKCN1SZ15J

Quote
Boris Johnson, the favourite to replace Theresa May as British prime minister, must appear in court over allegations he lied about Brexit by stating Britain would be 350 million pounds a week better off outside the EU, a judge ruled on Wednesday.
Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one - Albert Einstein

interstitial

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Re: Brexit...
« Reply #74 on: May 30, 2019, 03:36:38 AM »
Just a thought:
Fewer governments mean larger regions with no trade restrictions. This allows for less restrictive trade and travel which in turn increases globalization. Increased globalization causes increased efficiency and eventually increased consumption and pollution.
 
On the other hand if I lived in England I would probably be against Breexit too. :-\

Jim Hunt

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Re: Brexit...
« Reply #75 on: May 30, 2019, 07:56:38 AM »
Just a thought:

I don't recall Boris or Nigel mentioning Jevons Paradox in any of their assorted manifestos?

Of course The Brexit Party doesn't have such a thing yet. And what's more it's a private limited liability company and not a political party per se!

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/11694875
Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one - Albert Einstein

gerontocrat

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Re: Brexit...
« Reply #76 on: May 30, 2019, 08:52:52 AM »
Welcome to the Sunlit Uplands. I suppose complete industrial collapse will reduce pollution.

Brexit: UK car production plunges amid 'untold damage' of EU leave date chaos
April manufacturing fell 44.5% as factories shut down for an EU exit that never came

Quote
Car production plunged by nearly half in April as factories shut down to prepare for a Brexit date that never came, prompting renewed anguish from the UK motor industry at the “untold damage” done by prolonged uncertainty.

In a slump that the Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders (SMMT) described as “extraordinary”, 70,971 vehicles rolled off the production lines in April, down 44.5% from 127,970 in the same month of last year.

The automotive industry has been on the frontline of anxiety about the effect of Brexit on business, with warnings issued by a host of firms about the dangers of a no-deal scenario in particular.

An Oxford University study released in April predicted that the UK car industry could collapse by almost half by the mid-2020s in a no-deal Brexit scenario, with plant closures triggering thousands of job losses across the country.
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b_lumenkraft

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Re: Brexit...
« Reply #77 on: May 30, 2019, 08:56:09 AM »
Economics all over the world agree:

Mood is the one driving force in economics.

Looks like somehow Brexit is causing a very bad mood?

RealityCheck

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Re: Brexit...
« Reply #78 on: May 30, 2019, 09:34:52 AM »

Brexit: UK car production plunges amid 'untold damage' of EU leave date chaos
April manufacturing fell 44.5% as factories shut down for an EU exit that never came



The Guardian says they did their annual maintenance early... so will Brexit deliver a mid summer boost? :)
(Am on mobile on a train, apologies I can't embed article link.)
Sic transit gloria mundi

b_lumenkraft

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Re: Brexit...
« Reply #79 on: May 31, 2019, 11:44:39 AM »
What EU Elections Tell Us About How Europe Feels - Brexit Explained


Jim Hunt

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Re: Brexit...
« Reply #80 on: June 01, 2019, 09:03:34 AM »
It looks like the #TrumpUKVisit is going to provide non-stop LOLs ;D

https://twitter.com/jim_hunt/status/1134713191475363840
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b_lumenkraft

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Re: Brexit...
« Reply #81 on: June 01, 2019, 09:19:04 AM »
Send the orange Mussolini over to Germany after you tared and feathered him, Jim. We have the best milkshakes! Tremendous milkshakes, believe me.

pikaia

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Re: Brexit...
« Reply #82 on: June 01, 2019, 02:38:14 PM »
If he can live up to his name, James Cleverly, MP for Braintree, should be the next PM.

magnamentis

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Re: Brexit...
« Reply #83 on: June 01, 2019, 08:37:17 PM »
Send the orange Mussolini over to Germany after you tared and feathered him, Jim. We have the best milkshakes! Tremendous milkshakes, believe me.

you mean, "back to the roots" since he is from a small village in germany, an immigrant family with the name of "Trumpf" themselves, you can as well give him that other name. at least he was reborn blond this time and chose the place with the best chance to succeed, military power wise but will  fail again as well turning the world into turmoil.

funny that adolf with black hair and dark texture favoured blond "norsk type" and trump, a descendent of immigrants is profiling himself against other immigrants.

b_lumenkraft

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Re: Brexit...
« Reply #84 on: June 01, 2019, 08:42:20 PM »
You know what? My hometown is like 10 km from Kallstadt, that said small village.  :-[

magnamentis

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Re: Brexit...
« Reply #85 on: June 02, 2019, 02:38:32 AM »
You know what? My hometown is like 10 km from Kallstadt, that said small village.  :-[

it's nice there ;) my grandma was from Mainz, not that far north of there and a born keitel LOL, hence some history of our own.

thank god we're not responsible for our ancestors doings.

b_lumenkraft

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Re: Brexit...
« Reply #86 on: June 02, 2019, 05:55:40 AM »
Well, you never know... ;)

b_lumenkraft

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Re: Brexit...
« Reply #87 on: June 02, 2019, 04:48:25 PM »
"Let's do a Brexit referendum", the establishment said, "it'll cement our power".

b_lumenkraft

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Re: Brexit...
« Reply #88 on: June 02, 2019, 04:56:55 PM »
Brexit: Endgame - The Hidden Money, with Stephen Fry


pikaia

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Re: Brexit...
« Reply #89 on: June 02, 2019, 05:36:45 PM »
In hindsight, it looks like May's decision to hold an election in 2017 was a shrewd move - without it they would be looking at an election only 12 months from now, which would be a disaster for the Tories. As it is, the next election is likely to be in 2022, when the fuss over Brexit will have died down and the Brexit party will no longer be a threat. Perhaps.

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Re: Brexit...
« Reply #90 on: June 02, 2019, 09:12:27 PM »
If there's no brexit, and I don't mean this sham brexit that's been 'negotiated' then, come the next election the tories will be decimated, and the center will not hold for labour. Tribal labour voters in the north have long been held in contempt by the metropolitan labour elite and by labours remain supporters there, often quite openly, their interests have not been served for a quarter century I get the sense that they want a sea change in the status quo, and since there's nothing on offer from any party they'll vote brexit just to tip the table over and damn the consequencies. I have no insight into why tory voters overwhelmingly want out but they do, god alone knows how they'll react when they discover that during this negotiation process the command of all British forces has been handed over to the new European army without any public debate.

b_lumenkraft

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Re: Brexit...
« Reply #91 on: June 03, 2019, 10:13:27 AM »
Technology and the Irish Border Problem


b_lumenkraft

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Re: Brexit...
« Reply #92 on: June 03, 2019, 10:22:29 AM »
This video points out beautifully how the whole concept of 'Nation State' is as arbitrary then it is destructive.

SteveMDFP

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Re: Brexit...
« Reply #93 on: June 03, 2019, 04:23:42 PM »
It's a good, factual, informative video.

The Irish border problem appears to make Brexit a nearly insoluble problem.  Keeping NI within the EU seems the only pragmatic solution.  But currently, a politically impossible approach.

An irresistible force meets an immovable object.

RealityCheck

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Re: Brexit...
« Reply #94 on: June 03, 2019, 11:37:44 PM »
It's a good, factual, informative video.

The Irish border problem appears to make Brexit a nearly insoluble problem.  Keeping NI within the EU seems the only pragmatic solution.  But currently, a politically impossible approach.

An irresistible force meets an immovable object.
Agreed. This video makes a heroic attempt at explaining the (very) complex NI border 'problem' viz Brexit.
Rock vs Hard Place.
Trouble is, when a rabbit gets caught in the headlights it freezes, until it is run over by the juggernaut. Is the British political system any stronger than a rabbit right now?
The potential gravity for peace and stability on the island of Ireland is hard to over- emphasise.
Remember the last round of 'troubles' began with attacks on border infrastructure.
And to top it off, Mr President has now advised the UK to take 'No Deal' Brexit and send in Farage to negotiate with the EU, presumably under PM Johnson.
You couldn't make it up...
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Jim Hunt

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Re: Brexit...
« Reply #95 on: June 04, 2019, 02:40:36 PM »
It looks like the #TrumpUKVisit is going to provide non-stop LOLs ;D

I was not wrong!

https://twitter.com/jim_hunt/status/1135424810757107713

et seq.
Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one - Albert Einstein

RealityCheck

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Re: Brexit...
« Reply #96 on: June 05, 2019, 09:43:01 PM »
Mr President offers his views and advice on Irish / Northern Ireland border...

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/jun/05/ireland-visit-donald-trump-arrives-leo-varadkar-discussions

...displaying yet more astonishing levels of ignorance.
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b_lumenkraft

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Re: Brexit...
« Reply #97 on: June 07, 2019, 10:35:59 AM »
What Did Theresa May Actually Do?


magnamentis

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Re: Brexit...
« Reply #98 on: June 07, 2019, 09:19:07 PM »
What Did Theresa May Actually Do?

postponed/avoided the brexit up this day?

i never forgot that she was against brexit and they all got caught by surprise that people
voted "falsely" hence i can't get rid of the suspicion that she did it how she did it on purpose for
the UK to dodge the cannonball.

a suspicion is not a factual statement, but it's well possible and the thought never left me.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2019, 09:25:35 PM by magnamentis »

sesyf

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Re: Brexit...
« Reply #99 on: June 07, 2019, 09:27:08 PM »
Hmm. I have a feeling that british parliament has difficulty in believing that the deal with EU is what it is, no more negotiations available. And as May’s government hangs on with North Ireland minor party etc.... (sarc) Perhaps the best NI solution would be that EU buys it from Britain. There are similar cases, Napoleon sold Louisiana to US and Russia sold Alaska to US. The area would be declared some kind of separate area with some special rights etc, no? (/sarc)