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When did you last fly somewhere?

Less than year ago
1-2 years ago
3-5 years ago
5-10 years ago
More than 10 years ago

Author Topic: When was the last flight you took?  (Read 8380 times)

DrTskoul

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Re: When was the last flight you took?
« Reply #50 on: August 04, 2019, 03:10:45 PM »
Short haul electric planes already becoming available. Long haul could be done using syntethically manufactured fuel made using electricity. The problem as usual is the timeline until ubiquitous deployment of such solutions.
In the meantime, it's obviously better to fly less, as it is to drive less and generally consume less. Of xourse, your mileage may vary. Literally. I know mine is hard to cut down, having a family with two teenagers and ib a country with basically nowhere to vacation to except bu short haul flights, I sin every now and then. But I would still be happy if such flights were banned or limited or made more expensive.

 Synthetic fuel made with electricity !! Ok, I agree with you that is the surest way to reduce number of flights. Because such a fuel will be quite pricey to recup costs of production....flying will be the realm of the rich only once again....

oren

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Re: When was the last flight you took?
« Reply #51 on: August 04, 2019, 05:22:58 PM »
Sterks: You are correct for the vast majority of flights, but here's a short-haul 9-seater to be available in 2022, 3 years away, with a range over 1000km and a ceiling of 10,000ft, at speed of 440 km/h.
https://www.bbc.com/news/amp/business-48630656

Note the operational cost of such planes is so low that even with very limited specs they could cause a disruption in aviation.

DrTskoul

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Re: When was the last flight you took?
« Reply #52 on: August 04, 2019, 05:35:38 PM »
Sterks: You are correct for the vast majority of flights, but here's a short-haul 9-seater to be available in 2022, 3 years away, with a range over 1000km and a ceiling of 10,000ft, at speed of 440 km/h.
https://www.bbc.com/news/amp/business-48630656

Note the operational cost of such planes is so low that even with very limited specs they could cause a disruption in aviation.

Back to the era of shaken rides... the majority of people would be scared shitless to fly a puddle jumper....

gerontocrat

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Re: When was the last flight you took?
« Reply #53 on: August 04, 2019, 06:16:21 PM »
people serious here? What are we supposed to do, stay in a freaking cabin in the middle of a forest?
Not enough cabins.
Not enough forests.

Perhaps the simple reference to an arithmetical proportion of CO2 emissions from air travel is insufficient. (And I say this as an arithmetic addict)

Perhaps the real question is will the world attempt to keep the same system going in a zero-ish sort of way - electric planes, vehicles, ships, renewable power for everything, and even if it does, will the system collapse anyway.

Some (like me) think that the addiction to air travel is a symptom of a societal disease that is not "sustainable" (defendable, defensible, justifiable, maintainable, supportable, tenable). If air miles were reduced as a result of changing attitudes to the measurement of success by things, perhaps the trashing of the planet can be brought under control - sort of.

So the breakneck growth in air travel is more of a symbol of man's recklessness than anything else ?
"Para a Causa do Povo a Luta Continua!"
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gerontocrat

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Re: When was the last flight you took?
« Reply #54 on: August 04, 2019, 06:18:53 PM »
people serious here? What are we supposed to do, stay in a freaking cabin in the middle of a forest?

Aviation is nothing in the CO2 share, nothing.
Not enough cabins.
Not enough forests.

Perhaps the simple reference to an arithmetical proportion of CO2 emissions from air travel is insufficient. (And I say this as an arithmetic addict)

Perhaps the real question is will the world attempt to keep the same system going in a zero-ish sort of way - electric planes, vehicles, ships, renewable power for everything, and even if it does, will the system collapse anyway.

Some (like me) think that the addiction to air travel is a symptom of a societal disease that is not "sustainable" (defendable, defensible, justifiable, maintainable, supportable, tenable). If air miles were reduced as a result of changing attitudes to the measurement of success by things, perhaps the trashing of the planet can be brought under control - sort of.

So the breakneck growth in air travel is more of a symbol of man's recklessness than anything else ?
"Para a Causa do Povo a Luta Continua!"
"And that's all I'm going to say about that". Forrest Gump
"Damn, I wanted to see what happened next" (Epitaph)

nanning

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Re: When was the last flight you took?
« Reply #55 on: August 04, 2019, 06:38:59 PM »
<snip>
Some (like me) think that the addiction to air travel is a symptom of a societal disease that is not "sustainable" (defendable,
I'm with you. And I wish I was so eloquent.
"It is preoccupation with possessions, more than anything else, that prevents us from living freely and nobly" - Bertrand Russell
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SteveMDFP

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Re: When was the last flight you took?
« Reply #56 on: August 04, 2019, 06:53:08 PM »

Some (like me) think that the addiction to air travel is a symptom of a societal disease that is not "sustainable" (defendable, defensible, justifiable, maintainable, supportable, tenable). If air miles were reduced as a result of changing attitudes to the measurement of success by things, perhaps the trashing of the planet can be brought under control - sort of.

So the breakneck growth in air travel is more of a symbol of man's recklessness than anything else ?

Most air travel seems to be convenience, luxury, and vanity.  There are vast numbers of people who zip around the globe apparently so they can take selfies at Machu Picchu.  Or get in line for the summit of Mt. Everest (etc).

The question is how to affect the global culture to tamp down this eco-insane vanity.  A very steep tax on fossil jet fuel strikes me as a good start.  Let the industry figure out how to use biofuel or electric or liquid hydrogen or trains or whatever.

gerontocrat

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Re: When was the last flight you took?
« Reply #57 on: August 04, 2019, 07:04:46 PM »
Most air travel seems to be convenience, luxury, and vanity.  There are vast numbers of people who zip around the globe apparently so they can take selfies at Machu Picchu.  Or get in line for the summit of Mt. Everest (etc).

The question is how to affect the global culture to tamp down this eco-insane vanity.  A very steep tax on fossil jet fuel strikes me as a good start.  Let the industry figure out how to use biofuel or electric or liquid hydrogen or trains or whatever.
And when they've gone "sustainable" insane growth in air travel can continue unabated and an all-weather path built to the top of Mt. Everest?

The UK's headlong charge to a no-deal Brexit makes a sort of analogy. I mean, what could possibly go wrong?
"Para a Causa do Povo a Luta Continua!"
"And that's all I'm going to say about that". Forrest Gump
"Damn, I wanted to see what happened next" (Epitaph)

Sterks

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Re: When was the last flight you took?
« Reply #58 on: August 04, 2019, 07:23:09 PM »
people serious here? What are we supposed to do, stay in a freaking cabin in the middle of a forest?
Not enough cabins.
Not enough forests.

Perhaps the simple reference to an arithmetical proportion of CO2 emissions from air travel is insufficient. (And I say this as an arithmetic addict)

Perhaps the real question is will the world attempt to keep the same system going in a zero-ish sort of way - electric planes, vehicles, ships, renewable power for everything, and even if it does, will the system collapse anyway.

Some (like me) think that the addiction to air travel is a symptom of a societal disease that is not "sustainable" (defendable, defensible, justifiable, maintainable, supportable, tenable). If air miles were reduced as a result of changing attitudes to the measurement of success by things, perhaps the trashing of the planet can be brought under control - sort of.

So the breakneck growth in air travel is more of a symbol of man's recklessness than anything else ?
I’m with you philosophically speaking, really. But to want to pull the plug to fossil-fuel based aircraft altogether as some contributors suggest above is to want us all back to the caverns, and no thank you, I live very comfortably in my flat and love to go places.
And air transport can’t be, unfortunately, non-fossil-fuel-based unless a breakthrough technology emerges.

All that I am saying is that if my town subsidizes electric installation for my garage spot (I already have it) and substantial subsidizing electric / penalizing gas ( the entering government has promised) the move to electric can be massive, and only taking into account the efficiency savings, you will eventually have greater savings only for that than the percentage you burn in airplanes.

Being realistic, I prefer the ‘small’ political push than to cause a civilization crash.

And WTF, flying is a wonderful thing I don’t feel ashamed of.

Cavemen can start by switching off Internet, requires energy of suspicious origin.

be cause

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Re: When was the last flight you took?
« Reply #59 on: August 04, 2019, 07:32:23 PM »
just found one of my 'greener' friends has changed to climate denier on her return from her third Ireland -Peru trip of the year .. more planned ffs ! .. her fb is now full of supporters for her new stance .. folk like me will be 'dropped from a plane' come the revoloution ..
2007 + 5 = 2012 + 4 = 2016 + 3 = 2019 ...

DrTskoul

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Re: When was the last flight you took?
« Reply #60 on: August 04, 2019, 07:53:40 PM »
just found one of my 'greener' friends has changed to climate denier on her return from her third Ireland -Peru trip of the year .. more planned ffs ! .. her fb is now full of supporters for her new stance .. folk like me will be 'dropped from a plane' come the revoloution ..

What is her argument of the change?? Just curious....

be cause

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2007 + 5 = 2012 + 4 = 2016 + 3 = 2019 ...

SteveMDFP

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Re: When was the last flight you took?
« Reply #62 on: August 04, 2019, 08:23:41 PM »


What is her argument of the change?? Just curious....

Most people will adopt the attitudes and opinions of their peer group.  It's usually not a rational process.

Hang out with pleasure-seeking jet-setters, and you'll embrace the same attitudes they do.

Good luck changing that dynamic as long as jetting is cheap.


Neven

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Re: When was the last flight you took?
« Reply #64 on: August 04, 2019, 10:01:55 PM »
She needs both wings to get to where she (has been made to think she) wants to be.
Il faut comparer, comparer, comparer, et cultiver notre jardin

be cause

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Re: When was the last flight you took?
« Reply #65 on: August 05, 2019, 12:52:24 AM »
I suppose it's the story of facepuke .. groth at any and every cost .. b.c.
2007 + 5 = 2012 + 4 = 2016 + 3 = 2019 ...

nanning

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Re: When was the last flight you took?
« Reply #66 on: August 05, 2019, 08:27:04 AM »
<snip>
 .. folk like me will be 'dropped from a plane' come the revoloution ..
That reaction looks more and more the way it'll go. We are already in a 'hell' in my view. I fear for all the good and the poor people. One of the reasons I don't want to be alive when it goes all topsy-turvy.

<snip>
So the breakneck growth in air travel is more of a symbol of man's recklessness than anything else ?
I think it is utter stupidity. Extreme insanity.
Why keep people saying "we humans are so smart"?
"It is preoccupation with possessions, more than anything else, that prevents us from living freely and nobly" - Bertrand Russell
   Simple: minimize your possessions and be free and kind    It's just a mindset.       Refugees welcome

philopek

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Re: When was the last flight you took?
« Reply #67 on: August 05, 2019, 04:29:17 PM »
<snip>
 .. folk like me will be 'dropped from a plane' come the revoloution ..
That reaction looks more and more the way it'll go. We are already in a 'hell' in my view. I fear for all the good and the poor people. One of the reasons I don't want to be alive when it goes all topsy-turvy.

<snip>
So the breakneck growth in air travel is more of a symbol of man's recklessness than anything else ?
I think it is utter stupidity. Extreme insanity.
Why keep people saying "we humans are so smart"?

Because we compare with animals instead of all that exists, know and yet unknown in universe.

among all living creatures and considering all kinds of skills, mental and physical, we are most probably the smartest species while we mostly abuse our skills to "trump"over nature and our fellow humans instead of making wise use of said skills and talents.

Anne

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Re: When was the last flight you took?
« Reply #68 on: August 08, 2019, 03:27:02 PM »
The Shame Plane site claims to calculate how much Arctic ice is lost as a result of an individual flight between named destinations, and takes into account lifestyle offsets.

I can't vouch for its reliability but perhaps someone here can help. There's a brief discussion of it on Vox here.

(My last flight was in 2011, btw. ETA: I ticked the wrong box by mistake, can't seem to change it.)
« Last Edit: August 08, 2019, 03:35:26 PM by Anne »

nanning

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Re: When was the last flight you took?
« Reply #69 on: August 08, 2019, 06:12:59 PM »
<snip>
"trump"over nature and our fellow humans instead of making wise use of said skills and talents.

Hi philopek, I'm just curious what you think 'wise use' will be like?
Is it what uncontacted nature tribes are doing? They resisted the temptation of trumping nature.
It is through technology we can give in to this temptation I think. Without it, not so much trumping.

Maybe this is too off topic?
"It is preoccupation with possessions, more than anything else, that prevents us from living freely and nobly" - Bertrand Russell
   Simple: minimize your possessions and be free and kind    It's just a mindset.       Refugees welcome

philopek

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Re: When was the last flight you took?
« Reply #70 on: August 08, 2019, 10:17:18 PM »
<snip>
"trump"over nature and our fellow humans instead of making wise use of said skills and talents.

Hi philopek, I'm just curious what you think 'wise use' will be like?
Is it what uncontacted nature tribes are doing? They resisted the temptation of trumping nature.
It is through technology we can give in to this temptation I think. Without it, not so much trumping.

Maybe this is too off topic?

I very much appreciate your question and the way you ask ;)

As we both know wisdom is  a huge topic and there is no such thing like matter of fact objective wisdom.

Nevertheless there are a few ingredients to wisdom that are generally valid, hence i shall limit my reply to those and withouth claim that the list is in any way complete:

- experience
- ego-control
- ethics (not morale, morale is man made dogma in too many cases)
- modesty
- diligence
- love, respect etc.
- readiness to give more than to receive
- consequence
- a certain minimum of intellect while no Einstein level is necessary if the above are present
- willingness to accept facts like laws of physics and other natural laws, some are eternal
.  and again others are epochal etc.

I hope that those keywords contain enough hinting to what I consider ingredients for wisdom
while genuine "goodwill" love, respect, and not too much self-importance are a must and i do not
mean romantic love, at least not exclusively ;) ;)

bluesky

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Re: When was the last flight you took?
« Reply #71 on: August 11, 2019, 09:50:13 PM »
I flew back  Italy in 2010 for a compulsory field study, but travelled by train from London for the outbound. I then flew to Copenhagen from Lyon to bring back a suitcase that a long time friend living in Malmö, I was back by boat and by train. I then flew to Kiev to visit the city and Lvov in 2013, and was back to London by train, since then I have given up flying for private reasons, to my dismay I had to fly to Madrid for professional reasons this year but could not really say no. My friend in Malmö is getting married during a weekend in September , I will not be able to attend as the company where I work did not allow me to take days before and after in order to travel by train both way. I know many people in London who seem to be well aware of the current climate and environmental crisis but who would never give flying 5 to 20 times a year for personal reasons, we live in a schizophrenic world