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Sigmetnow

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #100 on: May 29, 2019, 08:55:02 PM »
The Good:
Quote
Matthias Schmidt (@auto_schmidt) 5/29/19, 8:10 AM
German transport minister @AndiScheuer confirms @BMVI wish to:
- double government subsidies for BEVs (€2,000 to €4,000 govt. contribution) priced <€30,000
- up to €8,000 for EV taxis/LCVs
- more benefits for efficient company cars
-€1bn to charging infrastructure
https://twitter.com/auto_schmidt/status/1133707175145168897
Infographic (German) at the link


——-
The Ugly:

German prosecutors raid Porsche in corruption probe
Quote
On top of the bribery probe, investigators suspect the company made "unjustified" and "disproportionately large" payments to a former works council member. …
https://amp.france24.com/en/20190528-german-prosecutors-raid-porsche-corruption-probe
   
NIO postpones its electric sedan after rough first quarter
The company is shaking things up and will launch a different new model in 2020
Quote
Chinese EV startup NIO has indefinitely delayed its upcoming electric sedan just six weeks after unveiling a concept version of the car at the Shanghai Auto Show. The news comes as the startup released unaudited financial results for the first quarter of 2019, which show NIO lost $390 million as deliveries of its ES8 electric SUV dropped to 3,989 (down from 7,980 during the fourth quarter of 2018). …
https://www.theverge.com/platform/amp/2019/5/28/18642571/nio-delay-et7-sedan-first-quarter-new-vehicle
   
Electric truck maker and prospective GM Lordstown plant buyer Workhorse ‘barely hanging on,’ report says
https://electrek.co/2019/05/28/workhorse-plant-gm-trouble/
   
FCA-Renault mega-merger is born of desperation
Quote
When the U.S. auto industry was looking down a barrel in 2008, General Motors did the unthinkable and quietly proposed a merger with cross-town rival Ford Motor Co.
It didn’t happen – GM ended up filing for Chapter 11, while Ford managed to avoid a bailout. But the fact they even broached the matter spoke volumes about the pressures the Detroit 3 rivals were under.
Now Europe’s auto industry has its own pause-and-gasp-for-breath equivalent. On Monday, Fiat Chrysler Automobiles said it hopes to merge with France's Renault to form the world’s third-largest carmaker (or by far the largest if you include Renault’s alliance partner Nissan, which arguably one should). …
https://www.autonews.com/commentary/fca-renault-megamerger-born-desperation

Chevron lobbyist pushes secretive campaign against electric cars in Arizona
https://electrek.co/2019/05/28/chevron-secret-campaign-electric-cars/
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Jim Hunt

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #101 on: May 29, 2019, 08:56:11 PM »
Can The Dyson Vacuum Cleaner Guy Build A Better Electric Car Than Tesla's Elon Musk?

Perhaps he'll cut a deal with VW eventually?

Quote
Perhaps the biggest obstacle for Dyson will be batteries. While the company continues to improve battery performance and operating times for its products and is a leading battery maker, Dyson is also clearly pursuing the holy grail of battery tech: The solid-state battery. Dyson has invested millions in the battery startup Sakti3, headed up by Ann Marie Sastry. Quite clearly, he is not alone in this quest.  But if Dyson can get there first, it could be the tech catapult that launches the Dyson car venture over Tesla and everyone else for that matter.
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #102 on: May 29, 2019, 09:47:35 PM »
An interesting thought, quoted below.  If OEMs were truly serious about EVs, why not take a popular model and announce, for example, “As of the next model year, the Golf will only be available as a BEV.”?

Quote
Walter MacVane (@EcoHeliGuy) 5/29/19, 10:42 AM
Who is going to be the first OEM to introduce the next generation of a key model in their portfolio, that’s only offered as a 100% BEV?
So far they have chosen to introduce new models and names, or optional EV powertrains.
Is it to control demand and current sales?
https://twitter.com/ecoheliguy/status/1133745475343880194
< That they have not done this since the original Model S release in 2012 is quite telling...they really are not on board with a sincere effort to transition to EV's. they still want to see Tesla fail.
WM:  If VW had announced a 8th Generation Golf as only being offered in Electric, instead of the I.D. 3. What would potential customers for their other product lines (Jetta, Tiguan ect) do? Wait out for an update

Production volumes would be a constraint, so perhaps this would work better with a less popular (and slightly more expensive) model than the Golf.

But making an EV under a new name and a new brand tells ICE car buyers, “Nothing to see here, please ignore this car.”  And making ICE, hybrid, and BEV on the same production line smacks of... indecision, at best.

I have read that the “I.D.” moniker for VW’s new EV line stands for “Made in Germany.”  So that Europeans can feel better about buying one, I guess — even Germans are surprised at the strong German willingness to buy an American-made Tesla.  Perhaps, knowing VW EVs won’t perform like a Tesla, the “I.D.” is intended to help German buyers overlook any shortcomings?
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John Batteen

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #103 on: May 30, 2019, 07:21:00 PM »
Even parked in the full sun all the time, covered with solar collectors, a car doesn't receive enough solar energy in a day to drive it very far.  Electric cars with solar panels on them will still have to be plugged in.  There will never be "solar cars," only electric cars with solar panels.

b_lumenkraft

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #104 on: May 30, 2019, 07:30:48 PM »
There will never be "solar cars," only electric cars with solar panels.

An electric car with solar cells is exactly what i mean with 'solar car'.

Today we have 40km, in 5 years 100 km, in 10-15 years 300 km on solar only.

Tor Bejnar

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #105 on: May 30, 2019, 08:25:46 PM »
What John wrote is functionally true (today), but Wikipedia says
Quote
Solar car racing refers to competitive races of electric vehicles which are powered by solar energy obtained from solar panels on the surface of the car (solar cars). The first solar car race was the Tour de Sol in 1985 …
and I saw the American Tour de Sol about 1990.  These vehicles are not "licensable".

News report: First Solar-Powered Car To Be Introduced in Late 2019

Quote
The compact minivan by the German startup, Sono Motors, has … solar cells [that] add up to an extra 18 miles to its 155-mile range.
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b_lumenkraft

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #106 on: May 30, 2019, 08:35:54 PM »
Yes, i was referring to the Sion there. When a little startup can build this today, i have no doubt, there is a lot of room to grow for this kind of cars. And i would really wonder if Elon wasn't thinking into this direction too.

vox_mundi

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #107 on: May 30, 2019, 10:02:16 PM »
Waymo Bringing Self-Driving Trucks to Phoenix Area Freeways
https://phys.org/news/2019-05-waymo-self-driving-trucks-phoenix-area.html

Google's self-driving vehicle division, Waymo, announced Wednesday that its self-driving tractor-trailers will start driving on freeways this week and will expand to more routes over time.

Waymo's self-driving passenger vehicles are ubiquitous in the eastern Phoenix and its suburbs, where the company conducts extensive testing and runs a taxi service.

The company says the big trucks use the same sensors as passenger vehicles but they're configured differently. The testing will start with two drivers in each truck.

Companies including Uber and TuSimple have driven self-driving trucks on Arizona roads. Waymo says it tested trucks in Arizona in 2017.

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Sigmetnow

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #108 on: May 31, 2019, 12:43:30 AM »
An interesting thought, quoted below.  If OEMs were truly serious about EVs, why not take a popular model and announce, for example, “As of the next model year, the Golf will only be available as a BEV.”?
...

Hey!

Jaguar XJ luxury sedan on the way out, to be replaced by electric car in 2020
Quote
… XJ has become the least popular Jaguar in recent years, with sales lagging far behind its other models. The carmaker only sold 1,579 XJs in the US last year, and only 502 to date this year, according to GoodCarBadCar.
The aim is still to make the electric XJ a model that can compete with upscale cars like the Mercedes-Benz S-Class, or as far as EVs go, the upcoming Porsche Taycan.
https://electrek.co/2019/05/30/jaguar-xj-electric-2020/
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #109 on: May 31, 2019, 12:56:54 AM »
The FCA-Renault merger.  Nissan is less than thrilled.
Quote
ValueAnalyst (@ValueAnalyst1) 5/30/19, 7:08 AM
Nissan found out about Renault's merger talks with Fiat Chrysler just days before they became public, four sources told Reuters, stoking fears at the Japanese carmaker that a deal could further weaken its position in a 20-year alliance with Renault.”
https://twitter.com/valueanalyst1/status/1134053846593024000
Reuters video at the link.

Nissan CEO sees no big downside to FCA-Renault merger
https://mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKCN1SZ10O

—-
China EVs:

BYD Is Gearing Up For Entry Level BEVs
Quote
The s2 is an all-around smart SUV, offering 305km [187 mile, on NEDC cycle] coverage fully charged, and taking just 15 minutes to provide charge for 100km of coverage.
https://insideevs.com/news/351457/byd-gearing-up-entry-level-bevs/

    ValueAnalyst (@ValueAnalyst1) 5/30/19, 10:07 AM
    BYD "Uses LiFePO4 chemistry: less volatile (i.e. safer) and longer life but low power output"
    https://twitter.com/valueanalyst1/status/1134099111655985153
    (Article attached to the tweet is paywalled.)

——
NIO, the electric car maker, is getting a bailout from Beijing
https://qz.com/1630165/nio-the-electric-car-maker-is-getting-a-bailout-from-beijing/

——
At Shanghai auto show, a dim future for most China EV startups
Quote
SHANGHAI — Hundreds of new companies have popped up across China to develop electric vehicles with the dream of becoming the next Tesla.
Yet signs were evident at the Shanghai auto show that most of the EV startups will vanish in the near future.
Some 20 fledging EV makers showcased products at the show but only a small number of them have started production and just three — Nio, WM Motor and Xpeng Motors — have launched deliveries.
And only Nio and WM have achieved meaningful sales volume.

Byton, in particular, faces an uncertain future: Co-founder Carsten Breitfeld left and made his first appearance as CEO of another Chinese EV startup, Iconiq, at the Shanghai auto show.
Breitfeld's departure is tantamount to a vote of no-confidence in the company he started.

Nio, WM and Xpeng have demonstrated that an EV startup must raise more than 15 billion yuan ($2.2 billion) to launch production. But most of their domestic peers haven't raised a third of that much, according to figures disclosed by the companies.

"Ten years ago, China had more than 100 carmakers, but now only Geely, BYD and Great Wall have gained a foothold," Shen said. "The others were either closed or are half dead."
Shen predicts the EV startups will face similar results in five years: "Two or three will stand out, four to five will be half dead and the rest will be closed."
https://www.autonews.com/commentary/shanghai-auto-show-dim-future-most-china-ev-startups
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b_lumenkraft

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #110 on: May 31, 2019, 08:03:59 PM »
German government expands electric car incentive program

Quote
BERLIN (AP) — The German government is extending a system of incentives to buy electric cars by 18 months until the end of 2020.

The program launched three years ago was supposed to expire at the end of June, but demand for electric cars has remained disappointing. It is backed by a 1.2 billion-euro ($1.3 billion) fund, half financed by the federal government and half by the auto industry.

Announcing the extension on Friday, Economy Minister Peter Altmaier said that “we need continuity in support” for electric cars. The incentives will continue at their current level: buyers of purely electric cars will continue to get 4,000 euros and people buying plug-in hybrids will get 3,000 euros.

Altmaier said applications for the incentives have been rising “but more slowly than we had hoped.”
Link >> https://www.apnews.com/b7d3cdfa1a034b7a9433f29f63202cf0

Sigmetnow

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #111 on: May 31, 2019, 08:59:33 PM »
German government expands electric car incentive program
...

This is the program that was restricted to EVs under €60,000 — so Teslas would not be eligible.  (Tesla made a cheaper version available, and thousands of Germans bought it, but Germany cried foul, and when it demanded the refunds back, Tesla announced it would pay for them.) 

Given that German automakers provided part of the funding, their actions are understandable, though perhaps a tad hypocritical if the government was sincere about encouraging EV adoption.  But it is interesting that no German EV was successful enough to empty the program’s coffers.  The only versions of the Model 3 available now in Germany, the Long Range and Performance models, are over €60,000, I believe.  Will the Standard Range get to Germany before the incentive ends???

German EV subsidy fund, which excludes Tesla, is barely being used
https://chargedevs.com/newswire/german-ev-subsidy-fund-which-excludes-tesla-is-barely-being-used/
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #112 on: June 01, 2019, 04:38:53 PM »
U.K.:   Brexit + Tesla = ???
Quote
Karun Mukhi (@sukhimukhi) 5/31/19, 10:36 AM
UK car sales down 44.5% in April. Just weeks before Tesla begins shipments of the Model 3. Has the end of ICE begun early?
Quote
The UK sold nearly half as many cars in April ’19 compared to ‘18
https://www.topgear.com/car-news/british/uk-sold-nearly-half-many-cars-april-19-compared-18?amp&__twitter_impression=true

https://twitter.com/sukhimukhi/status/1134468780422180869

—-
German reviewers dissed the early Model S because it could not go for hours at high speeds on the autobahn.  What then to say about the new German EVs which do even less?
Jaguar I-PACE, Audi e-tron, Mercedes EQC — Electric Autobahn Range Disasters
https://cleantechnica.com/2019/05/30/jaguar-i-pace-audi-e-tron-mercedes-eqc-the-electric-autobahn-range-disasters/

—- 
Production Hell, Mercedes-style:
Quote
TriTexan (@TriTexan) 5/30/19, 6:08 PM
Watch the slow, painful, manual-labor intensive way in which Mercedes makes the EQC battery packs. I can't imagine working here - I would go nuts.
Quote
Mercedes Electric ENGINE - Battery PRODUCTION ASSEMBLY - YouTube
https://twitter.com/tritexan/status/1134220102176509952

There aren’t many videos of Gigafactory 1 workers (in some segments, “90% of the line is automated”) — but Tesla’s “physics first principles” philosophy (e.g., less distance to travel = less time) and [German designed!] automated lines leads to production of two battery packs a minute.
Tesla Gigafactory Tour Shows Where Tesla Continuously Drives Down Battery Costs
https://cleantechnica.com/2019/01/05/tesla-gigafactory-tour-shows-why-teslas-batteries-constantly-improving/
Article includes a video tour from January 2019.
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Archimid

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #113 on: June 01, 2019, 07:12:41 PM »
Toyota’s First Full Electric Car Is Finally Here

https://thenextavenue.com/2019/06/01/toyotas-first-full-electric-car-is-finally-here/

Quote
The goal is to have 100% of their lineup electric by 2025. That count to Lexus too.

Toyota. 100% electric lineup by 2025. Make it happen!
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #114 on: June 02, 2019, 12:53:24 AM »
Toyota’s First Full Electric Car Is Finally Here

https://thenextavenue.com/2019/06/01/toyotas-first-full-electric-car-is-finally-here/

Quote
The goal is to have 100% of their lineup electric by 2025. That count to Lexus too.

Toyota. 100% electric lineup by 2025. Make it happen!

“We might not have an EV in our lineup at this moment, but we have the necessary technology to release one almost immediately when the time is right.”

Release one.  Almost immediately.  When the time is right.

No way their definition of “100% electric lineup” means they will not be producing any cars with ICE engines in 2025.  Sadly, that’s just not possible, given where they are today.  Maybe by 2025 they’ll have a few BEV options over their various models or brands.  If they survive. :'(  They invested too much time and money on hydrogen, and lost that bet.
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #115 on: June 02, 2019, 03:31:07 PM »
Here’s a brief, positive, non-technical, review of the Jaguar I-Pace, written by and geared toward someone who knows next to nothing about EVs — a rather large demographic! 

“naff” = Unstylish, clichéd, or outmoded.

Jaguar I-Pace: ‘An SUV that’s fast, nimble, desirable… and electric’
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/jun/02/jaguar-i-pace-review-an-suv-thats-fast-nimble-desirable-and-electric-martin-love

(Compare: the total 11,000+ I-Paces produced to date is less than two weeks’ worth of today’s Tesla production.)
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #116 on: June 03, 2019, 02:45:26 PM »
We may be seeing the beginnings of an ICE-car price crash. (While the few used Teslas offered for sale are snapped up immediately.) Twitter discussions:
Quote
Tesla Driver  (@Tesla_Driver_) 5/12/19, 9:53 AM
More anecdotal evidence that ICE cars are going out of fashion in Norway:
This guy cancelled his iPace order, got a Model 3.  Now selling Model 3 because it proved *impossible* to sell his existing car (BMW).
https://twitter.com/tesla_driver_/status/1127572473334108160
[Story in Norwegian at the link.]
- He tried for 2 months, lowering the price several times. Zero real interest. Model 3 sold right away, at price as new.
——-
Quote
ValueAnalyst (@ValueAnalyst1) 5/30/19, 3:48 PM
Any @BMW @MercedesBenz @Audi ICE sedan sold today will be worthless by the end of next year.
https://twitter.com/valueanalyst1/status/1134184891762061315
ValueAnalyst (@ValueAnalyst1) 5/30/19, 4:46 PM
This is insane. BMW 750i xDrive selling for $38k *before* negotiation: 65% depreciation in 3 years and normal miles, when it's supposed to be holding 50% of its value at this point. ICE depreciation has accelerated significantly.
2019.Q2 ICE Death Watch ...

https://twitter.com/valueanalyst1/status/1134199380725174287
(Image of BMW for sale in New York State below.)
ValueAnalyst (@ValueAnalyst1) 5/30/19, 4:55 PM
ICE makers who cannot resell lease returns at previously assumed residual values will need to recognize $10k to $15k in loss per vehicle, and this adds up quickly, especially when ICE dealers are "bursting at the seams" with new AND used vehicle inventory: ...https://twitter.com/valueanalyst1/status/1134201707804725251
(Paywalled article links, but more discussion at the Twitter replies.)

Graph in black below is from 2018:
https://loupventures.com/tesla-depreciation-case-study-positive-read-on-demand/

—-
Quote
ValueAnalyst (@ValueAnalyst1) 6/2/19, 4:07 PM
[Twitter Poll:] When will hundreds of millions of ICE owners realize they must sell their vehicles ASAP or they never will be able to do so at a reasonable price?  Assume FSD/robotaxi in 2020
https://twitter.com/valueanalyst1/status/1135276737892376576
- My guess: 2020.
- It won't be much longer before people realize this inevitable future, and it won't take many people to realize it before resale values collapse by 80 percent: a few million units of incremental used ICE supply should do the trick, as demand for ICE is collapsing at the same time.
< Where I live, there has to be more done to address charging for those without garages before demand takes off. It's starting, but urban residential centres need much more shared/public/pay-per-use charging infrastructure.
- Tens of millions of homes in the U.S. alone have garages, so it will be several years before Tesla needs to address homes without garages, and by then, FSD/robotaxi will be in service in urban areas anyway, agreed?
<< Maybe. But all they need to do is increase the amount of urban superchargers in large metropolis’
They’d pay for themselves 10x over between auto sales in the area and revenue from energy
<< Not to mention legacy automakers will hop onto the supercharger network within 2-5 years... those that remain
- Global ICE sales ALREADY PEAKED, so [the white graph below] is already off by 8 years!

—-
Quote
ValueAnalyst (@ValueAnalyst1) 6/2/19, 5:51 PM
It's been TWO YEARS and you still can't find a used Model 3 "deal," and this is *BEFORE* FSD/robotaxi in 2020.   Model 3 will never depreciate.
https://twitter.com/valueanalyst1/status/1135302843165020160
Image of search results (none found) at the link.

- … the inventory of vehicles with FSD-hardware is almost nonexistent across all models.
- 25 listings for which the listing price is less than the original price minus tax credit, which does not apply to the second owner so must be excluded when calculating depreciation, for a sedan that sold 250,000+ so far, and we don't even know if all listings are actually active.
< Maybe I'm wrong then, but it's still not a great way to project into the future
- You’ll agree with me in a few weeks when hundreds of thousands of Teslas start valeting their owners in store parking lots.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2019, 02:55:59 PM by Sigmetnow »
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oren

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #117 on: June 03, 2019, 03:56:07 PM »
Despite the name, Value Analyst is full of hyperbole.
100s of millions of ICE cars near worthless by 2020? No. The process will happen, much slower and not everywhere at the same time.
Model 3 will never depreciate? Really?

Sigmetnow

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #118 on: June 03, 2019, 04:12:30 PM »
Despite the name, Value Analyst is full of hyperbole.
100s of millions of ICE cars near worthless by 2020? No. The process will happen, much slower and not everywhere at the same time.
Model 3 will never depreciate? Really?

I agree this seems a bit exaggerated.  ;)
But if I need to sell my ICE car and no one wants to buy it, that makes it pretty much “worthless” to me.
And a Model 3 with continued OTA improvements, and with improving FSD/robotaxi capabilities able to provide significant income, and a million-mile drivetrain and heightened demand for Teslas sustaining a good resale value for many years... I’d say that’s pretty close to “never depreciate,” compared to other vehicles.
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b_lumenkraft

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #119 on: June 03, 2019, 04:15:47 PM »
I think he might be less hyperbole than you think Oren.

I shared a youtube link in the other thread about the Malthusian catastrophe and the modeling of it. (https://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php/topic,317.msg202943.html#msg202943)

I found this picture on Reddit today, showing kind of the same thing. I bet it also applies to the ICE  catastrophe. When we see signs of this already occurring, the point of no return is already behind us.

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #120 on: June 03, 2019, 04:28:51 PM »
Which would you prefer a new model 3 with all the latest physical fixes and lower initial purchase price as battery costs fall (and more competition) that can do a million miles
or
2 year old model 3 that can do a further 9 hundred thousand miles?

So, I think there will be some depreciation.

Having said this, "rational expectations" for ICE used car prices. If people expect the ICE used cars to depreciate very rapidly then it will be self full-filling prophecy as people try to protect themselves against loss in value of an ICE car ... by buying electric. This tends to make things happen quickly, but I am not sure the supply of electric cars will be able to keep up when this starts to happen. Maybe that causes people to hang on to old cheap ICE cars rather than buy new expensive ones and this explains why ICE car sales are currently so poor.

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #121 on: June 03, 2019, 04:31:30 PM »
And in theory, the more people buy EVs, the cheaper petrol/gasoline becomes because of decreasing demand.
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b_lumenkraft

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #122 on: June 03, 2019, 04:35:06 PM »
This tends to make things happen quickly, but I am not sure the supply of electric cars will be able to keep up when this starts to happen. Maybe that causes people to hang on to old cheap ICE cars rather than buy new expensive ones and this explains why ICE car sales are currently so poor.

That's a good point. There is only one company that can produce EVs in big(ish) numbers so far.

Sigmetnow

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #123 on: June 03, 2019, 05:57:51 PM »
And in theory, the more people buy EVs, the cheaper petrol/gasoline becomes because of decreasing demand.

The profit margin on gasoline is razor-thin, which is one reason why Mom-and-Pop stations have closed, street-corner stations added “convenience stores” to sell food and drink, and big-box stores succeed with large stations.  As EV infrastructure grows, and the number of petrol fueling locations decline, “range anxiety” will become the provenance of ICE car owners, not EV owners. :D

Gas stations will disappear sooner than you think
https://thehill.com/opinion/technology/352884-gas-stations-will-disappear-sooner-than-you-think
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #124 on: June 03, 2019, 08:55:55 PM »
U.S.

Tesla has been getting money from GM and FCA for greenhouse gas credits
Quote
Tesla has made over $2 billion from the sale of environmental credits over the years, but those have mostly consisted of ZEV credits from CARB states – mainly California.

Now, they are seeing demand for GHG credits at the federal level despite the Trump administration finalizing the rollback of fuel economy rules.

Both GM and FCA said that they are buying the credits from Tesla to protect themselves against potential future regulatory changes.

We recently heard that FCA plans to pay Tesla up to $2 billion for regulatory credits in Europe. ...
https://electrek.co/2019/06/03/tesla-money-gm-fca-greenhouse-gas-credits/
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Archimid

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #125 on: June 03, 2019, 10:45:52 PM »
And in theory, the more people buy EVs, the cheaper petrol/gasoline becomes because of decreasing demand.

And hopefully, in yet another theory, low fuel prices makes expensive oil unrecoverable. It's even better than low fuel prices. Its volatile fuel prices.
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rboyd

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #126 on: June 03, 2019, 11:22:02 PM »
And hopefully, in yet another theory, low fuel prices makes expensive oil unrecoverable. It's even better than low fuel prices. Its volatile fuel prices.

Why I think that the Tar Sands will end up as a huge unplanned outdoor museum, with the cost too great to "reclaim" it for nature (leaked govt estimate of C$230 billion, outside parties think more like C$300 billion+). Ultra Deep Sea oil will just be left there, with the massively expensive rigs scrapped. Probably all the tight oil as well, while the groundwater and air continue to be poisoned for decades to come.

Even at US$10 a barrel though, the low cost producers such as the Middle East and Russia will keep pumping, as they desperately need whatever oil rents they can get their hands on to keep running / controlling their societies.

Such low cost oil could provide a speed bump for EV adoption, but shouldn't slow things down too much. Once the average person internalizes that gas stations will soon start to disappear and the second-hand value of that newly purchased ICE-vehicle could be approaching $0 (let alone the banks financing the vehicle loans) ICE sales will vaporize (as will the arms and luxury sales to the Middle East).

The Middle East leaders back to riding camels, if they manage to survive the wrath of their citizens. Couldn't happen to a "nicer" bunch of jerks, and no more Saudi funding for fundamentalist religious brainwashing.

Tom_Mazanec

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #127 on: June 04, 2019, 06:48:34 PM »
A friend on this list let me know this is the thread I should have posted this:
https://aheadoftheherd.com/Newsletter/2019/How-China-wins-trade-war.htm
SHARKS (CROSSED OUT) MONGEESE (SIC) WITH FRICKIN LASER BEAMS ATTACHED TO THEIR HEADS

Sigmetnow

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #128 on: June 04, 2019, 07:36:27 PM »
Image below: First look at US EV sales in May.

Also: Audi e-tron:  856 (!)
Cars with the battery symbol are pure electric; others are hybrids.

Source, with more data: https://insideevs.com/news/352626/ev-sales-scorecard-may-2019/
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b_lumenkraft

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #129 on: June 05, 2019, 09:26:43 AM »
CSU-Generalsekretär Söder fordert Verbot von Autos mit Verbrennungsmotoren ab 2020

Link >> https://www.spiegel.de/spiegel/vorab/a-469671.html

Translates to:
CDU (German conservative party) demands to ban ICE cars in Germany from 2020

The link is from 2007

Sigmetnow

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #130 on: June 05, 2019, 05:18:56 PM »
CSU-Generalsekretär Söder fordert Verbot von Autos mit Verbrennungsmotoren ab 2020

Link >> https://www.spiegel.de/spiegel/vorab/a-469671.html

Translates to:
CDU (German conservative party) demands to ban ICE cars in Germany from 2020

The link is from 2007

The German car industry, however, does not show enough ingenuity in the field of environmental protection, so "a clear ultimatum" must therefore generate the "necessary pressure to innovate".

Wow! 
They list hydrogen and hybrid, but not BEV — are electric cars assumed to be such an obvious alternative they do not even need mentioning?  Or is BEV an unspeakable word to the German auto industry at the moment?
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b_lumenkraft

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #131 on: June 05, 2019, 05:20:49 PM »
Sigmetnow, the link is from 2007.  ;D

Sigmetnow

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #132 on: June 05, 2019, 05:51:13 PM »
Sigmetnow, the link is from 2007.  ;D

 ;D  OK, EVs weren’t even considered as a possible replacement, back then.  When, I suppose, this call for clean transport was considered too wacky to merit discussion.

What is the position of the CSU today?
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b_lumenkraft

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #133 on: June 05, 2019, 05:57:30 PM »
They are stupid and without vision, plan or direction. Not only in the EV case.

Merkel is on her way out and the designated successor (AKK) turned out to be an utter moron, the voters are running away in masses, YouTube video talking about how bad they are has over 30mio views, etc. Same old, same old. :)

This bill in say 2010, we would be so awesome by now. But they overslept a whole decade without any serious action even though they easily could have.

Sigmetnow

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #134 on: June 05, 2019, 06:19:17 PM »
Thanks.  It’s going to be a tough slog to get through this global downturn.
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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #135 on: June 05, 2019, 06:33:42 PM »
A German team has made a breakthrough in coatings for battery electrodes that could speed up the adoption of solid state batteries.

https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/Battery-Breakthrough-Solves-Major-Electric-Car-Problem.html

Quote
Battery Breakthrough Solves Major Electric Car Problem

By Irina Slav - Jun 04, 2019, 6:00 PM CDT

It’s no secret that batteries are the most expensive part of an electric vehicle. As such, this is the root of the industry’s problem and a roadblock to making larger strides into the mainstream market. Researchers around the world are racing to solve this problem, and now a team of German scientists say they’ve taken a crucial step in that direction.

The team, from the Fraunhofer Institute for Material and Beam Technology IWS, have devised a new production process for EV batteries that features coating their electrodes with a dry film of chemicals rather than liquids. According to them, this process is less energy-intensive, which means it’s cheaper, and it is also better than the standard process in that it does not involve toxic solvents.

Quote
Most battery-related breakthroughs in the news are reported from the lab, and despite assurances that the technology is potentially scalable, few have been actually tested. This is not the case with the IWS electrode-coating process. The institute already has a partner from the manufacturing industry: Finnish BroadBit Batteries. The company has already launched a pilot production unit at a factory and is producing sodium ion batteries using the new coating process, which, in addition to all its other advantages, is also substantially faster than wet chemistry.

Quote
Given all this, the dry-coating tech may someday replace the traditional way of coating electrodes with the chemicals that make them electrodes, and this replacement will allow EV makers to achieve two of their biggest goals: lowering the price of their vehicles and boosting the energy density of their batteries with the use of new chemicals.

European carmakers should be especially happy about the lower battery cost implications of the IWS team’s invention. These have poured billions into their EV production plans but are excessively reliant on imported battery cells. A homegrown cheaper battery production process could help them to reduce this dependence at a crucial moment when EVs, helped by government policies, have a chance to really take off.

A recent study from AlixPartners estimated that “by 2023 a whopping $255 billion in R&D and capital expenditures (will be) spent globally on electric vehicles, and that some 207 electric models are set to hit the market by 2022.”

Sigmetnow

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #136 on: June 06, 2019, 12:46:40 AM »
Volkswagen up to 20,000 pre-orders for its ID.3 electric hatchback
https://electrek.co/2019/06/04/vw-20000-id3-hatchback/

——-
China Moves to Stop a Crash in Booming Electric-Car Industry
Quote
China's EV Car Bubble to Burst?

As big as its world-leading car market is, China has decided that 486 aspiring electric-vehicle companies are too many.
The country is considering rules to raise the barrier to entry for electric-vehicle makers and nurture fewer but more competitive players, according to people familiar with the matter. Specifically, China plans to clamp down on EV startups who farm out their manufacturing, the people said, asking not to be named as the rules are still being drafted.

After hundreds of startups rushed into the electric-car business in the past decade, the government wants to prevent a crash akin to that of dot-com companies two decades ago. China’s electric-car makers have raised $18 billion since 2011, BloombergNEF estimates, but the market is in its infancy and foreign competition from the likes of Tesla Inc. is intensifying.
...
Outsourcing production has been a quick way for young electric-car companies to bring out their models while they plan for their own factories, which can cost hundreds of millions of dollars.

...
According to the planned additions, new-energy vehicle makers that want to tap other companies’ production capacity need to have research-and-development investment in China of at least 4 billion yuan ($580 million) over the past three years, global sales of pure-electric passenger vehicles of at least 15,000 units over the past two years, and paid-in capital of potentially billions of yuan, they said.

The new rules also call for manufacturing contracts to run for at least three years with annual production of at least 50,000 units at one location, the people said. Startups will be allowed to sign manufacturing agreements with no more than two automakers, they said.
https://www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/articles/2019-06-04/china-drafting-measures-to-curb-18-billion-electric-car-bubble?__twitter_impression=true

——
But the electric Insight is up.
Quote
SacEV (@SacEV) 6/4/19, 4:48 PM
Honda sales down, especially the core sedan lineup (Accord, Civic, Clarity, TSX, and RLX)…. https://vtec.net/news/news-item?news_item_id=1386356
https://twitter.com/sacev/status/1136011897189281792
Data image below.
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #137 on: June 06, 2019, 02:44:01 PM »
Much talk these days about Big Auto mergers, acquisitions, and “collaborations,” being forced upon them due to the rapid changes upending the automotive industry.  But bankruptcy for some is inevitable, and expensive consolidation attempts may only hasten their demise.

Toyota and Subaru partner to make a couple of all-electric SUVs together
https://electrek.co/2019/06/06/toyota-subaru-partner-electric-sus/

BMW Group And Jaguar Land Rover To Collaborate On EV Tech
https://insideevs.com/news/353190/bmw-jaguar-land-rover-collaborate-ev-tech/amp/

Quote
M87 (@M8728205808)6/2/19, 5:33 PM
@ValueAnalyst1 ICE bankruptcies will also be "smoothed" over by mergers, followed by significant layoffs and plant closures.
FCA+Renault has been already announced. GM+Ford is rumored. There will be massive consolidation in next few years.

https://twitter.com/m8728205808/status/1135298411756810240
< ValueAnalyst:  None will help.  Mega-mergers = absolute mess.
M87 (@M8728205808) 6/2/19, 5:50 PM
@ValueAnalyst1 you're correct re "mega-mergers". time/money will be spent in integrating antiquated enterprises w/ irrelevant IP.  FCA has no choice but to merge w/ a co w/ HEV/BEV tech bc of enacted pollution restrictions in EU inner cities, EV-mode in cars is must-have
[More discussion at M87’s link.]
Quote
Alex (@alex_avoigt) 6/2/19, 5:10 PM
The 16 largest auto manufacturers have increased their investment in EVs from 2017 to 2018 by 95% (Source EY, '18 €8.4bn) which is great but where are the competitive BEVs?
Do those investments maybe go rather into Hybrids to keep the ICE business running?

https://twitter.com/alex_avoigt/status/1135292528037715968

Quote
Angel N Devil (@AngelNDevil2) 6/4/19, 6:11 PM
FCA-Renault merger won’t gain much in terms of fleet CO2 emissions. Renault is also facing severe penalties - as much as FCA actually - if they don’t reduce their 2018 average emissions by 2021 to 2021 targets.
https://twitter.com/angelndevil2/status/1136032705630674944
Data at the link

Quote
Sarajahskincare.com (@GinoG01328427) 6/5/19, 5:31 PM
To catch @Tesla other automakers must do 3 things they won’t do: 1) Forsake billions they already have invested in their current infrastructure 2) Forsake billions in profit from selling ICE vehicles 3) Invest billions in battery technology. All they can hope is for @Tesla to die
https://twitter.com/ginog01328427/status/1136385174038388736

Here’s how a Fiat Chrysler-Renault merger could spark some mega auto deals
Quote
The auto industry has long promised consolidation but has never fully delivered on market expectations. Now, under mounting pressure from structural changes including new technologies and stricter emissions standards, we could finally be on the brink of an M&A bonanza in the sector.

Daimler and BMW recently struck an agreement to pool their mobility services to create a new global player providing sustainable urban mobility for customers. They have also joined forces on autonomous driving. If they are forced to compete with another mega automaker in FCA-Renault, Daimler and BMW could perhaps even explore deepening their ties.

Ford and Volkswagen have already forged a global alliance to develop commercial vans and medium-sized pickups together and have signed a memorandum of understanding to investigate collaboration on autonomous vehicles, mobility services and electric vehicles and have started to explore opportunities.
On the prospect of a bigger deal down the line for the two giants, Fitch’s Baisden said there was appealing logic.
“Their strategies both focus on EVs and autonomy in the medium to long term and so with a challenging market that threatens their income, it would make sense.”
And don’t forget about Peugeot. Multiple reports suggest the French carmaker was interested in doing a deal with Fiat Chrysler. If FCA consummates this deal with Renault, Peugeot will have to look elsewhere for merger opportunities.

Some market participants suggest a tie-up between Peugeot and Jaguar Land Rover (JLR) could make sense. …
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/05/31/a-fiat-chrysler-renault-merger-could-spark-some-massive-ma.html
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rboyd

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #138 on: June 06, 2019, 08:06:02 PM »
Can China rapidly leapfrog the US in electronics?, with an EV being as much about electronics than traditional car stuff this is a worrying question

These documentaries really show the intensity of the entrepreneurial spirit and the way in which China has built an incredibly flexible and quick to market technology ecosystem that could blast right past the West (with knowledge being shared, rather than locked up in patents, driving intense competition to outdate previous knowledge). The sheer optimism parallels the US in the 1950s.

The book "AI Superpowers" by Kai-Fu Lee, although being a bit too techno-utopian gets across how fast China has switched over to being a leader in innovation. He covers the AI "silicon valley" in Beijing.

BYD (23% market share of Chinese EV's in 2019) is headquartered in Shenzen. BAIC (9%) is in Beijing.




Sigmetnow

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #139 on: June 06, 2019, 09:06:07 PM »
Just this week, China announced new regulations to encourage New Energy Vehicle (NEV) adoption.
Quote
Vincent (@vincent13031925) 6/6/19, 9:32 AM
1/ 6-6-2019
The new regulations require local governments (#China) not to impose restrictions on NEV.
Also local gov & enterprises r required to give NEV policy support in terms of cost, tech, performance, purchase restriction & parking fees.
https://twitter.com/vincent13031925/status/1136626930806153217
2/ Content requirements include:
A. Significantly reduce the cost of new energy vehicles. Accelerate battery development and reduce battery costs. Promote the separation and consumption mode of vehicles and electricity such as new energy car rental.
3/
B. Accelerate the development of new energy vehicles that are convenient to use. Focus on the issues such as battery life, and promote the research and development of high-efficiency fast charging, wireless charging, mobile charging and replacement.
4/
C. Steadily promote the development of smart cars. Strengthen the in-depth cooperation between automobile and Internet companies and cultivate smart car brands with international competitiveness.
5/
D. Continuously improve the energy saving and environmental performance of automobiles. Actively adopt high-performance batteries and lightweight materials to improve the energy-saving level of new energy vehicles.
6.
Encourage local gov (China) to support car-free families to purchase the first NEV, encourage qualified places to give NEV parking fee concessions.
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #140 on: June 06, 2019, 09:31:22 PM »
Another unique Rivian feature:
Rivian R1T and R1S will feature vehicle-to-vehicle charging, says CEO
https://www.teslarati.com/rivian-r1t-r1s-vehicle-to-vehicle-charging/

Porsche Taycan will drive like a 911, fewer than 10,000 units this year, says CEO
https://electrek.co/2019/06/05/porsche-taycan-911-drive-production/

VW announces plans to install 36,000 electric car charge points in Europe by 2025
https://electrek.co/2019/06/06/vw-plans-install-electric-car-charging-stations/

Fastned: 1,000 Meters Of Cable Ducts For A Single Charging Station
https://insideevs.com/news/353022/fastned-1000-meters-cable-ducts-charging-station/amp/
See photo below.

India to require ridesharing services like Uber to electrify 40% of fleet by 2026, report says
https://electrek.co/2019/06/06/india-ridesharing-electric-2026/

New Jersey aims for 330k registered zero-emission vehicles by 2025, looks to become an East Coast EV leader
https://electrek.co/2019/06/05/new-jersey-zevs-2025/

———-
Quote
koshi (@koshi77) 6/6/19, 12:44 PM
Toyota/Subaru
BMW/Jaguar
Ford/VW
Fiat and whom?
Who is next?
Consolidation of car industry starting now.

ValueAnalyst (@ValueAnalyst1)6/6/19, 12:49 PM
"Consolidation" will never happen; there are way too many big egos across the automotive industry and ICE supply/service chain. Before the kings decide which lords get what land, the majority of ICE companies will cease to exist...
2019.Q2 ICE Death Watch
https://twitter.com/valueanalyst1/status/1136676487489368066

Ford to Shut U.K. Engine Factory, Tabs $650 Million Charge Amid Global Redesign
Quote
Ford Motor Co. shares were indicated lower in pre-market trading Thursday after the carmaker said it would take a $650 million charge following a move to close a key production facility in the United Kingdom.

Ford said its 1.5-litre petrol engine plant in Bridgend, Wales, would shutdown in February of next year, a move that would likely mean the loss of around 1,500 jobs and cost the company $400 million in separation and termination payments. A further $250 million in non-cash charges, mostly linked to pension expenses. ...
https://www.thestreet.com/amp/investing/stocks/ford-to-shut-uk-engine-factory-tabs-650-million-charge-amid-global-redesign-14983232
    < $650million charge to close one plant. Ford has 65+ plants.  And is one of the OEMs transitioning most slowly to EVs.
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Neven

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #141 on: June 06, 2019, 10:01:31 PM »
Another unique Rivian feature:
Rivian R1T and R1S will feature vehicle-to-vehicle charging, says CEO
https://www.teslarati.com/rivian-r1t-r1s-vehicle-to-vehicle-charging/

Wow, that's awesome. One Rivian will be able to charge 20 Mitsubishi i-MiEVs!  :o

But anyway, it's not unique. The Sion from Sono Motors will have the same feature.

Can't they rename Rivian to Simian?

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Sigmetnow

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #142 on: June 07, 2019, 12:32:24 AM »
Another unique Rivian feature:
Rivian R1T and R1S will feature vehicle-to-vehicle charging, says CEO
https://www.teslarati.com/rivian-r1t-r1s-vehicle-to-vehicle-charging/

Wow, that's awesome. One Rivian will be able to charge 20 Mitsubishi i-MiEVs!  :o

But anyway, it's not unique. The Sion from Sono Motors will have the same feature.
...

Cool!  But not as magical as this guy charging his Tesla using power from the charge plug inside that same Tesla. :o ;D

https://twitter.com/wadeandersonpt/status/1135401965603581952
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #143 on: June 07, 2019, 12:41:51 AM »
Mega-mergers are mega-messy.

Why Fiat Chrysler walked away from Renault merger deal
Quote
France's finance minister, Bruno Le Maire, said on Thursday that the government, which has a 15 percent stake in Renault, had not been prepared to back a deal that was not supported by Renault's alliance partner Nissan.

Nissan had signaled that its representatives on the board would abstain. During the board meeting, French government representatives sought to persuade Nissan to endorse the deal. The meeting was held up three times for consultations, people familiar with the events told Reuters.
...
France's Le Maire said on Thursday that an agreement had been reached on three of the four conditions. "What remained to be obtained was the explicit support of Nissan," he said in a statement.

France's four conditions were: respecting Renault's existing alliance with Nissan; keeping jobs in France; forming a balanced corporate governance structure between Renault and FCA; ensuring the new company commit to developing electric batteries along with Germany.

Questioned by reporters outside his home in Tokyo just hours after the collapse of the deal, Nissan CEO Hiroto Saikawa said he had not heard anything official and repeatedly declined to comment.
https://www.autonews.com/executives/why-fiat-chrysler-walked-away-renault-merger-deal
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #144 on: June 07, 2019, 01:47:59 PM »
While two of the nation’s Big Three companies signed the letter, the third, Fiat Chrysler, did not. Other automakers who signed the letter include BMW, Honda, Mazda, Nissan, Subaru and Volkswagen.

Automakers Tell Trump His [Looser] Pollution Rules Could Mean ‘Untenable’ Instability and Lower Profits
Quote
By Coral Davenport
June 6, 2019
WASHINGTON — The world’s largest automakers warned President Trump on Thursday that one of his most sweeping deregulatory efforts — his plan to weaken tailpipe pollution standards — threatens to cut their profits and produce “untenable” instability in a crucial manufacturing sector.

In a letter signed by 17 companies including Ford, General Motors, Toyota and Volvo, the automakers asked Mr. Trump to go back to the negotiating table on the planned rollback of one of President Barack Obama’s signature policies to fight climate change.

The carmakers are addressing a crisis that is partly of their own making. They had sought some changes to the pollution standards early in the Trump presidency, but have since grown alarmed at the expanding scope of the administration’s plan.

Mr. Trump’s new rule, which is expected to be made public this summer, would all but eliminate the Obama-era auto pollution regulations, essentially freezing mileage standards at about 37 miles per gallon for cars, down from a target of 54.5 miles per gallon by 2025. The policy makes it a near certainty that California and 13 other states will sue the administration while continuing to enforce their own, stricter rules — in effect, splitting the United States auto market in two.

For automakers, a bifurcated market is their nightmare scenario. In the letter to Mr. Trump, they warned of “an extended period of litigation and instability” should his plans be implemented.
The letter was delivered to the White House on Thursday morning, the same time as a similar letter to Gov. Gavin Newsom of California, according to a senior auto industry lobbyist.


In the letter to Mr. Newsom, the automakers said they would like to see a standard that is “midway” between the current Obama rules and the rollback proposed by Mr. Trump.   The letter to Mr. Trump said, “We strongly believe the best path to preserve good auto jobs and keep new vehicles affordable for more Americans is a final rule supported by all parties — including California.”
 ...
Mr. Newsom said he is not interested in a “midway” deal requiring California to loosen its rules. “A rollback of auto emissions standards is bad for the climate and bad for the economy,” he wrote in an email. “I applaud the automakers for saying as much in their letter today to the President. We should keep working towards one national standard — one that doesn’t backtrack on the progress states like California have made.” ...
https://apple.news/AmrX1R0kOT9ur13hvxZ8WXg
A portion of the article is also a available here: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/automakers-tell-trump-his-pollution-rules-could-mean-e2-80-98untenable-e2-80-99-instability-and-lower-profits/ar-AACvfhg
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #145 on: June 08, 2019, 05:43:48 PM »
From 2017.  Describes how the diesel scandal evolved from the German automakers’ agreement to keep AdBlue tanks small, regardless of the consequences.
Collusion Between Germany's Biggest Carmakers
Quote
The Cartel
The diesel scandal is not a failure on the part of individual companies, but rather the result of collusion among German automakers that lasted for years. Audi, BMW, Daimler, Volkswagen and Porsche coordinated their activities in more than a thousand meetings. The exposure of a cartel.
Quote
Reporting by DER SPIEGEL into the anti-cartel authorities in Brussels and Bonn, and automakers in Stuttgart, Munich and Wolfsburg, and conversations with current and former executives, provide a previously unknown image of Germany's most important industry. The conclusion is that Daimler, BMW, Audi, Porsche and Volkswagen often no longer compete with one another. Instead, they secretly cooperate, very closely, in fact, in the same way one would normally expect of the subsidiaries of a single company to work together, as something like a "German Cars Inc." -- or a cartel.

Daimler, Volkswagen, Audi and Porsche have already admitted as much to the European Commission and the German Federal Cartel Office. In a brief dated July 4, 2016, Volkswagen issued what amounts to a voluntary declaration of its "participation in suspected cartel infringements." According to the VW statement, Daimler, BMW, Volkswagen, Audi and Porsche have coordinated matters relating to the development of their vehicles, costs, suppliers and markets "for many years -- at least since the 1990s and to this day."

It is not just a matter of the establishment of an exclusive club of the five German automakers with the goal of attaining economic advantages over the competition. The secret agreements are also detrimental to customers, who buy German vehicles because, among other things, they expect to be getting the best possible products from a technical standpoint. But how can a company produce the best if competition is curbed, and if the engineers stop doing their utmost to outdo the engineers working for other brands? ...
https://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/the-cartel-collusion-between-germany-s-biggest-carmakers-a-1159471-amp.html?__twitter_impression=true
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

b_lumenkraft

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #146 on: June 08, 2019, 05:48:22 PM »
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thousand meetings

A thousand meetings?? There goes the money. High paid managers thinking about how to avoid the future. For thousands of hours. You can't make this stuff up...

Markets are efficient, eh?

Sigmetnow

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #147 on: June 08, 2019, 06:05:28 PM »
Good review that nicely describes the e-tron’s place in the current EV universe.
2019 Audi e-tron Review: Grading on a Curve
https://www.slashgear.com/2019-audi-e-tron-review-grading-on-a-curve-08579745/

Brief video in french, w/ french subtitles. “We can defend the car and the environment.”
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Bertrand Usclat (@BertrandUsclat) 6/6/19, 3:07 AM
On peut défendre la voiture ET l'environnement !
#broute #poumons
https://twitter.com/bertrandusclat/status/1136529974930890753

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ValueAnalyst (@ValueAnalyst1) 6/7/19, 5:36 AM
Not imminent, but "California Air Resources Board chair Mary Nichols in draft remarks last month released by the agency warned that the increasing need to fight climate change 'might lead to an outright ban on internal combustion engines.'"
autonews.com/regulation-saf…
https://twitter.com/valueanalyst1/status/1136929930862845953

US Auto Sales Down For Audi, Honda, Infiniti, Mercedes, Nissan, & Toyota In 2019
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We won’t have US sales figures for Tesla, Ford, and GM for another month — and even then we’ll have to estimate how they were split out across the quarter — but we know one thing for sure: Tesla’s sales are up heavily compared to the same period in 2018. For other automakers, not so much.

Some car buyers are certainly changing brands to go electric with Tesla and some are surely just switching to crossovers and SUVs. The end result is thus a double whammy that means car sales from conventional automakers are getting demolished.

Again, those result exclude Ford and GM, but seeing the writing on the wall, Ford and GM are more or less bailing on cars anyway, so the numbers would look even much worse with them included! …
https://cleantechnica.com/2019/06/05/us-auto-sales-down-for-audi-honda-infiniti-mercedes-nissan-toyota-in-2019/
Graphs below.

It (normally) takes years to plan, build, and set up a car plant. And so BMW is now stuck with a new ICE plant producing the very cars people today are turning away from.
BMW opens first Mexico plant as Trump tariff standoff builds
It seems Mexico tariffs are set aside for now, but sales of the 3 series, their best-selling model, “plunged 25 percent in the U.S. last year to 44,578 vehicles as consumers continued to migrate to crossovers.”
https://www.autonews.com/manufacturing/bmw-opens-first-mexico-plant-trump-tariff-standoff-builds

BBC, UK.  Odd that Tesla is not even mentioned as a factor, particularly items 1-4.
Five reasons the car industry is struggling
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/business-48545733
June 6, 2019

Toyota pulls forward electrification plan
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Terashi warned it could be a long time before EVs are profitable by themselves.
A quicker road to profitability, he said, would be adopting a new business model.
The idea is to not just manufacture and sell the cars, but to work with partners on wringing revenue from throughout a product's lifetime. That includes businesses in sales, leasing, sharing, peripheral services, used car sales, battery reuse and recycling.
"Once those become viable, he BEV business will become viable, even if the battery price remains quite high," Terashi said, adding that a new approach was crucial. "Unless we work on this at a very accelerated manner, we will not be able to ensure our future survival."
https://www.autonews.com/automakers-suppliers/toyota-pulls-forward-electrification-plan

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Tesla New York (@TeslaNY) 6/6/19, 4:46 PM
#BMW, #Mercedes-Benz Cars Were 85.24% of Over 1 Million China Recalled Last Month
  yicaiglobal.com/news/bmw-benz-… $TSLA #Daimler
https://twitter.com/teslany/status/1136736224079749122

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Bloomberg (@business) 6/7/19, 4:13 PM
BREAKING: Uber CEO Dara Khosrowshahi is parting ways with two top lieutenants in a major leadership overhaul bloom.bg/2Iq2wfb
https://twitter.com/business/status/1137090256749154310
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #148 on: June 09, 2019, 02:07:18 AM »
With a name like e-tron, daring to be different is essential. 

Audi is advertising the e-tron electric SUV right at a gas station in Hollywood #smart
https://twitter.com/fredericlambert/status/1137475879003729921
Image below.
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

b_lumenkraft

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #149 on: June 09, 2019, 06:49:21 AM »
Funny, that the ad doesn't say "Audi gone electric"...